S17.E13: Bob Costas, Adam Schiff, Grover Norquist, John Avlon, and Zerlina Maxwell

[Guest]

Airs April 26, 2019

Quote

Bob Costas, Adam Schiff, Grover Norquist, John Avlon, and Zerlina Maxwell

[Victor the Crab]

Attention Bill: Eat shit and go fuck yourself, shitstain!!! Your latest episode is why liberals shouldn't take you seriously about issues that matter. Just stick to comedy, if your crude, underdeveloped brain can comprehend at least two weeks of information.

[Milburn Stone]

I thought Bill's end sermon was one of his most powerful ever, even though not funny at all. I've been generally happy with the Mueller report because it doesn't mince words about all the president's crimes. But Bill's point really reached and saddened me-- that since the Senate will never vote to convict, Mueller punting to Congress was a dereliction of duty. The most powerful and painful moment was when Bill put up on the screen his imaginary New York Times, with the big banner headline "Mueller Breaks with Precedent, Indicts President." (Or words close to that.) And then added, "If that had been the headline, we'd be living in a different world right now." And I had to face that this was true.

[Frisson]

I thought Zerlina Maxwell was great, a real breath of fresh air. She was very good at expressing feelings clearly and quickly enough in this format. I loved her pushing back on Bill’s scoffing about what progressive means. Norquist annoyed me less than usual. 

[iMonrey]

Grover Norquist annoyed me as much as usual, but it was satisfying to see both Zerlina and John pushing back against his usual buzz words like "entitlement spending" and, of course, taxes. I was especially glad to see John Avlon push back against "identity politics." As if Republicans don't play identity politics too. Puh-leeeez. Norquist was just as odious as ever but they weren't letting him get away with it this time. It did seem to subdue him, just a bit.

I've never heard of Zerlina Maxwell before but I want her on the panel every week.

I don't know who Bob Costas thinks he's fooling with that hair color but it looks ridiculous on him.

I thought the new rule about Mueller was excellent. Agree 100%.

[littlecatsfeet]

John Avlon came up with the perfect, yet generally unusable slogan for the 2020 election: "Unfuck America"

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I thought the new rule about Mueller was excellent. Agree 100%.

Yeah, especially with Schiff in his interview saying well, if they don't impeach it says this stuff is fine...but if they impeach and the senate lets him go then it says this stuff is fine. So we're just paralyzed and doing nothing as usual and punting it back to the voters. It's up to the millions of us to come together and get rid of the problem by voting--we'll just vote on whether these crimes are okay. On one side we've got people who stop at nothing, on the other a whole line up of people letting us down over and over again. There was some Republican strategist on another show recently talking about how during the Obama admin the Republicans just didn't give up and that their impression of the Dems was that they were wimps afraid of their own shadows who wouldn't ever do anything. And yup, here we are with them (and not just Dems) again always using precedent to justify not doing anything.

Meanwhile the advice for Dems on the panel was, as usual, to be scared of doing too much. It's playing into Trump's hands to support candidates who want to do anything but protect the pre-Trump status quo--treat the symptom, not the illness. Wanting to actually confront problems like systemic inequality or people saddled with crippling debt or climate change is just "playing into Trump's hands" by becoming the crazy radical left. If a problem doesn't bother basically secure white cis men it doesn't exist.

[Pike Ludwell]

I thought Bill's criticisms of Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal were among the most ignorant, out of touch with reality comments I have ever heard him make.  It was just like some amusing (to him) thoughts, divorced from reality, popped into his head and he thought it sounded clever, so reality be damned!

Edited April 27, 2019 by Pat Hoolihan

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, especially with Schiff in his interview saying well, if they don't impeach it says this stuff is fine...but if they impeach and the senate lets him go then it says this stuff is fine. So we're just paralyzed and doing nothing as usual and punting it back to the voters. It's up to the millions of us to come together and get rid of the problem by voting--we'll just vote on whether these crimes are okay...

And this brings up a point on which I completely agreed with Bill. He praised Biden for being the one candidate who is making Trump the issue. Just speaking for me, Trump is the issue. Universal health care will be wonderful, free college would be fantastic, reversing climate change would be swell, a fairer tax code would be peachy keen--but I'm a single-issue voter, and that single issue is getting rid of Trump. I'm not saying Biden is the guy to do that. I'm saying whoever is the candidate to do that, that's who I'm for--no matter where else they stand.

[msrachelj]

8 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I thought Bill's end sermon was one of his most powerful ever, even though not funny at all. I've been generally happy with the Mueller report because it doesn't mince words about all the president's crimes. But Bill's point really reached and saddened me-- that since the Senate will never vote to convict, Mueller punting to Congress was a dereliction of duty. The most powerful and painful moment was when Bill put up on the screen his imaginary New York Times, with the big banner headline "Mueller Breaks with Precedent, Indicts President." (Or words close to that.) And then added, "If that had been the headline, we'd be living in a different world right now." And I had to face that this was true.

agreed.  mueller could have changed the country. he chose not to. so very disappointed.

[wknt3]

2 hours ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

I thought Bill's criticisms of Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal were the most ignorant, out of touch with reality comments I have ever heard him make.

I'm sure HBO is happy Bill has a new viewer...

[ganesh]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Norquist was just as odious as ever but they weren't letting him get away with it this time. It did seem to subdue him, just a bit.

He's a useless fuck that contributes nothing to anything. Anyone who thinks Moore is qualified to be a dishwasher let alone on the Fed should be 5150-ed immediately. Moore has been literally wrong about everything and ran Kansas into the ground. 

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

. I'm saying whoever is the candidate to do that, that's who I'm for--no matter where else they stand.

We were saying here during the midterms that the strategy should be vote for the adults. And it's the same here. The next president is going to spend at least 2 years undoing this mess. 

Agreed on new rules too. 

[b2H]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The next president is going to spend at least 2 years undoing this mess. 

Two years?  Only two years?

I can see some of the repair work taking an entire generation.....  but that's just me.  I don't expect to be around by the time all the damage is undone.

[Pike Ludwell]

10 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

I'm sure HBO is happy Bill has a new viewer...

I meant to include the word "among". 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Pat Hoolihan

[GHScorpiosRule]

Why does Bill keep doing this? I’m enjoying the show, the guests that push back the lone Fucktoid he always has on...then he’s just got to fuck it up with his tone-deafness, assholery, and whatnot.

That said, I agreed 100% with his New Rules.

I  could have sworn that Biden had called and apologized to Anita Hill? But yes, she DESERVES a PUBLIC one. FROM EVERYONE.

[ganesh]

Biden did call her and apologize, but she said it was kind of weak. He needs to get in front of this, say he's sorry, say he's learned, because he's going to be asked all the time about it. 

[meowmommy]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know who Bob Costas thinks he's fooling with that hair color but it looks ridiculous on him.

Bob Costas is 67 years old and could be the new Dick Clark.  He's always looked like he's 12 years old.  I wonder why Bill didn't rag him about his age like he did Dave Barry.  And he's not the go-to guy if you're looking for a respite from politics.  Bob Costas has always been very outspoken about sports and society, to the point where he was dumped by NBC for expressing his views about violence in football.

I've always hated Kate Smith because I am a Boston Bruins fan and the fucking Flyers rode that fucking song to the Stanley Cup in 1974.  But I get it about the political correctness.

Was surprised that Bill had Adam Schiff as the lead interview after he was just there a couple of weeks ago.  Interesting question that was never quite answered about how we only hear about Russia from the congressman's many television appearances, not his position on other issues, even though the answer is obvious.  And I liked that Bill suggested he could go to the top of the chart if he had decided to run for President.  Dog knows I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.  Was also surprised to learn that the fantastic "I don't think it's okay" speech wasn't actually scripted.  And he's usually so precise and lawyerly that I was also surprised to hear him say we need to "vote [45's] ass out of office."  But then, it's HBO!

4 hours ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

I thought Bill's criticisms of Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal were among the most ignorant, out of touch with reality comments I have ever heard him make.

I think there are some very sound counterarguments to Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal, which seems quite extreme to me.  The idea of making college more affordable is certainly something to be looked at, but there are lot of stops along the spectrum from no help to total free ride, and major considerations about what is equitable.  I didn't think Bill's argument was ignorant at all.  May just depend on whose ox is being gored.

Hey, Bill, we nurses wear real sneakers!

That's probably the sharpest criticism of Mueller I've heard or read, and Bill's not wrong.  That NYT headline would have been phenomenal.

[Pike Ludwell]

4 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

I think there are some very sound counterarguments to Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal, which seems quite extreme to me.  The idea of making college more affordable is certainly something to be looked at, but there are lot of stops along the spectrum from no help to total free ride, and major considerations about what is equitable.  I didn't think Bill's argument was ignorant at all.  May just depend on whose ox is being gored.

He said it would be poor people who never had a chance to go to college, paying the expenses of people who went to college. Warren's proposal to forgive college debt would be paid for with her wealth tax on rich people. Not by poor or middle people. And they would then be able to go to college too.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Pat Hoolihan

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, meowmommy said:

Bob Costas has always been very outspoken about sports and society, to the point where he was dumped by NBC for expressing his views about violence in football.

He also did a piece on how America has a gun problem on Sunday night football too. 

When they brought up about people not going to college, I said, "then if it becomes affordable, go to fucking college." Even if you're middle aged, part time at a community college for free offers enormous benefits. 

I'm not sure I know many people who haven't. One of my best friends went into the military and has a high position at ICE, but I'd say his service was nearly equivalent to a college education. 

I did like the idea of expanding the GI bill to national service. 

Also fuck off Grover. I'm all for taxing the shit out of multi millionaires. How does he think we built our national infrastructure? 

[meowmommy]

19 minutes ago, ganesh said:

He also did a piece on how America has a gun problem on Sunday night football too. 

Yes, I remember that.  It was quite controversial at the time.  There was a lot of "just shut up and stick to football," as if sports live in a bubble.  

21 minutes ago, ganesh said:

When they brought up about people not going to college, I said, "then if it becomes affordable, go to fucking college." Even if you're middle aged, part time at a community college for free offers enormous benefits. 

Sadly, not everyone can handle even the relatively low expectations of community college, and college isn't the right move for everyone.  The millennials are learning what we already knew, that it's not an automatic ticket to the C-suite.  And we still need plumbers and ditch-diggers and cashiers and trash collectors.  Any new program has to be equitable, and that includes fair to those who've worked their way through school or have already paid off their student loans.  A lot of kinks have to be ironed out.  It can't be just free candy for everyone.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, meowmommy said:

There was a lot of "just shut up and stick to football," as if sports live in a bubble.  

Bill brought this up too, and I always haze people on social media who say they 'don't like politics in sports'. Politics has been in sports literally since the beginning of time. What you mean is you don't want politics in sports unless it's your politics. If you don't want politics in sports, go for walk in the woods instead. 

As much as I like Kap, I'm glad they did bring up his error in not voting because the 'both sides' argument got us into this mess. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Bob Costas is 67 years old and could be the new Dick Clark.  He's always looked like he's 12 years old. 

Have to disagree on that one, Bob is definitely showing his age in his face, and that hair color is anything but natural looking. The terrible dye job just makes him look like he's trying to cling to his youth. He'd look ten times better if he just let it go gray.

[deirdra]

I wish Bob Costas would choose glasses that aren't so tiny.  The outside edges of his rims are in front of his eyeballs. 

[teddysmom]

On 4/27/2019 at 5:53 PM, ganesh said:

Biden did call her and apologize, but she said it was kind of weak. He needs to get in front of this, say he's sorry, say he's learned, because he's going to be asked all the time about it. 

I read the interview with her after the phone call, I think it's on Jezebel, reprinted from New Yorker maybe. He told her he'd call her first, then call witnesses to back her story, he did none of that.  Also allowed therapist to say she had some mental disorder, basically she was making her story up. So yeah, she has a right to not care for his "apology". 

[teddysmom]

On 4/27/2019 at 6:09 PM, meowmommy said:

On 4/27/2019 at 12:12 PM, iMonrey said:

I don't know who Bob Costas thinks he's fooling with that hair color but it looks ridiculous on him.

Bob Costas is 67 years old and could be the new Dick Clark.  He's always looked like he's 12 years old.  I wonder why Bill didn't rag him about his age like he did Dave Barry.  And he's not the go-to guy if you're looking for a respite from politics.  Bob Costas has always been very outspoken about sports and society, to the point where he was dumped by NBC for expressing his views about violence in football.

I've always hated Kate Smith because I am a Boston Bruins fan and the fucking Flyers rode that fucking song to the Stanley Cup in 1974.  But I get it about the political correctness.

Was surprised that Bill had Adam Schiff as the lead interview after he was just there a couple of weeks ago.  Interesting question that was never quite answered about how we only hear about Russia from the congressman's many television appearances, not his position on other issues, even though the answer is obvious.  And I liked that Bill suggested he could go to the top of the chart if he had decided to run for President.  Dog knows I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.  Was also surprised to learn that the fantastic "I don't think it's okay" speech wasn't actually scripted.  And he's usually so precise and lawyerly that I was also surprised to hear him say we need to "vote [45's] ass out of office."  But then, it's HBO!

On 4/27/2019 at 1:53 PM, Pat Hoolihan said:

I thought Bill's criticisms of Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal were among the most ignorant, out of touch with reality comments I have ever heard him make.

I think there are some very sound counterarguments to Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal, which seems quite extreme to me.  The idea of making college more affordable is certainly something to be looked at, but there are lot of stops along the spectrum from no help to total free ride, and major considerations about what is equitable. 

Tuitions have gone up in part because of the recession, states aren't subsidizing them like they used to. Indiana just booked a $2 billion surplus. 

[teddysmom]

On 4/28/2019 at 12:56 PM, iMonrey said:

Have to disagree on that one, Bob is definitely showing his age in his face, and that hair color is anything but natural looking. The terrible dye job just makes him look like he's trying to cling to his youth. He'd look ten times better if he just let it go gray.

Is he still doing that really dark color? Howard Fineman used to dye his hair red and it looked ridiculous, he let it go gray and now he looks SO much better. 

[smores]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:12 AM, iMonrey said:

Grover Norquist annoyed me as much as usual, but it was satisfying to see both Zerlina and John pushing back against his usual buzz words like "entitlement spending" and, of course, taxes. I was especially glad to see John Avlon push back against "identity politics." As if Republicans don't play identity politics too. Puh-leeeez. Norquist was just as odious as ever but they weren't letting him get away with it this time. It did seem to subdue him, just a bit.

"Middle America" "East Coast Elites" "Non-college educated white men" "Forgotten voters" "Flyover country" All of those are groups that the GOP regularly names, and yet somehow it's the Democrats that are playing identity politics.  I'm puzzled, because on the one hand we're supposed to be in awe at the brilliance of Trump and his micro-targeting ads on facebook to various groups, but how would that be done if they didn't play to identities? 

On 4/27/2019 at 11:16 AM, littlecatsfeet said:

John Avlon came up with the perfect, yet generally unusable slogan for the 2020 election: "Unfuck America"

Maybe we can use it now, given what Lindsey said this past week in the hearing?

On 4/27/2019 at 12:53 PM, Pat Hoolihan said:

I thought Bill's criticisms of Elizabeth Warren's college tuition proposal were among the most ignorant, out of touch with reality comments I have ever heard him make.  It was just like some amusing (to him) thoughts, divorced from reality, popped into his head and he thought it sounded clever, so reality be damned!

Bill is getting more and more grumpy.  People around him need to sit him down and have an intervention about the fact that he's not having the biting political insights he thinks he's having, he's just turning into that cranky old guy at the holiday table that no one likes to hear from.

On 4/27/2019 at 4:53 PM, ganesh said:

Biden did call her and apologize, but she said it was kind of weak. He needs to get in front of this, say he's sorry, say he's learned, because he's going to be asked all the time about it. 

I can't blame her for not wanting to listen to an apology that took 28 years to come.  It's timing is convenient to his needing dispensation to run for office and he's still acting like somehow he had no control over things, he's sorry he couldn't do more, not he's sorry for what he did or didn't do.