Season 5: Speculation

[Brn2bwild]

Many of us book people want to see Lady Stoneheart in Season 5.  Here is what I would also love to see:

 

Roose and Ramsey Bolton sit in the Winterfell grand hall, where the great Northern families are forced to appear and acknowledge them as the new rulers of the North.  One of the northern lords is Howland Reed.  The Boltons note that he is alone, and Reed says sadly that his son is dead, though he knows not how, and his daughter is someplace unknown.  That sparks Ramsey's suspicion, at least, that Reed could be connected to the missing Stark boys.  He orders his men to restrain Reed until he confesses what he knows about his children's absence.  However, Reed does some magic frog-ninja move and ends up disappearing.  Roose warns Ramsey that Howland Reed is no ordinary lord, and reminds him of the battle at the Tower of Joy (that all died but Ned and Howland Reed).  

 

Reed disappears until later in the Season, when Theon finds him in the Starks' crypt, during the terrible snow storm that has everyone trapped at Winterfell, standing in front of Lyanna Stark's tomb.   

 

In terms of actual material from the book:

 

Among other things, I really hope they leave in the part where Daenerys sees visions of Viserys as she wanders in the Dothraki sea.  I would love to see Harry Lloyd again, and it would be a reminder of just how far Daenerys has come.

[Meredith Quill]

Here is the place to discuss what you think or hope, we will see in S5. Feel free to discuss which characters/plots/locations you believe will be, or want to see, included or omitted.

Factual or rumoured casting news and set photos belong in the S5 Info & casting thread.

[elzin]

A major theme of next season needs to be The North Remembers. If I were in charge, I'd have that be one of the poster taglines (spoiler-free, of course). 

 

I want Frey Pie.  And that's also why Lady Stoneheart needs to appear, even if they have to recast her. I mean, they recast Daario and he didn't return as a hooded zombie.  LS is thematically important for the pain of the North.

 

I assume that since a not a whole lot happens in the enormity of books 4 & 5 that they will mostly be smooshed together for S5. We've already gotten a lot of their stuff with Theon and Bran, so there is even less stuff.

 

For me, the big question is that when we see "new" stuff next season, is it based on unpublished book canon or are the writers making it up entirely?  With Sansa, there is some "Who wants to marry the Lord's stepfather's bastard daughter?" stuff, but not much actually happens other than descending from the Aerie.  Her chapters are mostly internal and characterization, not story and plot. So will they make stuff up entirely go to book 6ish stuff?

 

I really need the sexualized violence to stop, especially the non-book stuff.  There's enough grossness inherent to the setting that they don't need to add more. 

 

While I don't need them to be faithful entirely to the books, I do need them to stop being unfaithful to themes and characters.  The scene in S4 where Tywin tells Jaime he will spare Tyrion if Jaime leaves the White Cloaks? That was not from the books, but it did an amazing job of showing how much Jaime loved Tyrion, how Tywin doesn't give a shit about honor if his own personal goals are met. That was a change I can get behind.  Jaime not telling Tyrion about Tysha or somehow driving a wedge between them, infuriating Tyrion enough to go kill Tywin? That was not as good. I don't relish the idea of wangsty Tyrion, but I don't like that they took away some of the dark side, and if they show it somehow anyway, it'll be even more sexualized violence than there was in the books.  Don't get me wrong. I hate that Tyrion hates Jaime. It's just that for Tyrion to have his darkest hours in Essos, he has to lose everything.  That's just an example though. If they do it well, I'm ok with it, but I am deeply concerned that D&D don't understand the books anymore and they think people only watch for battles and boobs.

[Advance35]

I want the Harry The Heir plot.   I hope they cast a good actor.   Though when it comes to Sansa, I think we are entering TWOW territory

 

I also hope to see Olenna Tyrell back in Kings Landing, at least until the marriage of Tommen and Margaery.

 

Alex Graves recently reiterated that D&D know where all the major characters will end  up and they know who in the end will be sitting on the Iron Throne but he said story-wise there is a lot that needs to happen to get these character's where their going, so I don't see D&D treading water on anyone.   I believe it's been confirmed the show will do 7 or at most 8 seasons.

[Maximum Taco]

If they do Sansa and Harry the Heir (and I hope they do) they'll probably give it the love story treatment the way they did with Robb/Talisa and have a bunch of scenes where Sansa is trying to charm him, or vice versa.

 

I also want Lady Stoneheart and Frey Pie. We need to see some Frey's killed here. I mean, seriously, in the series they're just getting away with the Red Wedding. Also LSH is not just thematically important, but in TWOW it seems she's going to be the driving force in Brienne and Jaime's conflict. I just cannot see Brienne betraying Jaime for anyone other than Catelyn.

 

I'm supposing the drama in King's Landing will be Cersei doing her own "House of Cards" style scheming to lead Margaery (and herself) to ruin. That could be interesting if they do it right. It'll need a lot of expansion though, these were some of the dullest parts of AFFC for me. They are already setting up Qyburn's creation of Frankengregor, so maybe we'll even get Cersei's trial by combat next season?

 

Other Big Season 5 Possibilities:

 

1) Griff and Young Griff, some people are thinking they'll just remove the Aegon storyline, I'm guessing those people are the book readers who are hoping for Aegon to not be important later on. He dominates ADWD though, and I can't see them cutting him out. Also Jon Connington is a character I'd like to see, I don't see that happening without Aegon.

 

2) Quentyn Martell, Dragontamer. Curious about this one, we've seen casting calls out for Doran, Trystane and the Sand Snakes, but nothing with Quentyn and his party. I really like Gerris Drinkwater and Archibald Yronwood. I'm hoping we get all three, even though this story doesn't seem all that necessary, it does seem like they might lack for deaths in the upcoming season, and might include it to keep up the quota as it were.

 

3) Sam, Gilly and Aemon on the way to Oldtown. Another one that I'm not sure will happen but i hope does. I kinda want to see Alleras/Sarella and I'm hoping that storyline is going somewhere in the books. It might be nice to see Sam run into Arya in Braavos too, he can be the one to collect meetings with Starks.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[ElizaD]

The North remembers. The Red Wedding matters: it's not business as usual and successful strategizing, it's the violation of the greatest of taboos and only brings short-term gains. If the Freys are allowed to go unpunished, negotiation and compromise can no longer be trusted. I want Stoneheart, I want Manderly, I want some sign that all the Northern houses suffered losses and are plotting to claim their vengeance instead of groveling submissively before the Boltons and the Lannisters.

 

I want a scene where Cersei hears the words "Faith Militant" and doesn't back the hell away from the High Septon. The show loves choosing shock over tension (for example, TV Sansa as a total pawn during the escape that hasn't been hinted at so that Littlefinger can appear out of nowhere), but the most glorious thing about AFFC Cersei is that she's a trainwreck you can see coming and nothing drives that point home like her indifference to the religious fanatic.

 

While I don't need them to be faithful entirely to the books, I do need them to stop being unfaithful to themes and characters.

This is my attitude as well. In the past I've suggested some huge cuts, but I want to feel that the characters are true to the books. So I don't mind Jaime going to Dorne, but I do mind him treating the White Book like trash so he can have sex with Cersei in a demonstration of Show Jaime's tendency to break vows on Monday, keep them on Tuesday, break them on Wednesday...

2) Quentyn Martell, Dragontamer. Curious about this one, we've seen casting calls out for Doran, Trystane and the Sand Snakes, but nothing with Quentyn and his party. I really like Gerris Drinkwater and Archibald Yronwood. I'm hoping we get all three, even though this story doesn't seem all that necessary, it does seem like they might lack for deaths in the upcoming season, and might include it to keep up the quota as it were.

Trystane seemed like a charmer in the audition, I wonder if they could combine Trystane, Quentyn and Quentyn's hot companion Drinkwater, dealing with the Myrcella plot in the first half of the season and sending Trystane to woo Dany and get roasted in 5x09. But that might be a bit crazy even for this show's travel times/character combination logic.

[Hanahope]

Well, they have to include the Ironborn somehow, since we still need Balon's death and someone has to have the dragon horn.  And we know they have something to do in Dorne, since they are filming in Spain.

 

Will they start the Oldtowne story line and how much of that.

 

it would be nice to include Jaqen again, just for some continuity to Arya's story.  Just because that didn't happen in the books (yet at least), doesn't mean D&D won't write their own scene.

[Maximum Taco]

Trystane seemed like a charmer in the audition, I wonder if they could combine Trystane, Quentyn and Quentyn's hot companion Drinkwater, dealing with the Myrcella plot in the first half of the season and sending Trystane to woo Dany and get roasted in 5x09. But that might be a bit crazy even for this show's travel times/character combination logic.

 

The only issue with this is they might have to come up with a reason for Dany to reject him. In ADWD Barristan supposes that if Drink was the Prince of Dorne it might have ended differently, but because Quentyn is plain and stocky, she immediately puts him aside. Trystane I believe they are casting a heartbreaker someone to make Myrcella swoon.

 

Also, yeah Trystane will have to be everywhere, for him to put the moves on Myrcella, put her aside and then go and try to woo Dany. That might be fun though.

[Holmbo]

For me, the big question is that when we see "new" stuff next season, is it based on unpublished book canon or are the writers making it up entirely?  With Sansa, there is some "Who wants to marry the Lord's stepfather's bastard daughter?" stuff, but not much actually happens other than descending from the Aerie.  Her chapters are mostly internal and characterization, not story and plot. So will they make stuff up entirely go to book 6ish stuff?

I feel like this will be the question all the rest of the show. Like every new major character death or new major plot twist in future seasons will make us wonder was this planned in the book as well or just invented by the writers. One could argue that it doesn't matter in the context of the show. It will probably be a huge topic of discussion though in the last seasons.

I'm curious about those book fans that says they will stop reading the books when the show catches up. When do they consider that to be? Bran and Sasa will be caught up in the begining of next season. Brienne and Pod doesn't have much left either. Or is it KL or the wall that is the way to meassure it?

[Maximum Taco]

Another question

 

The show has previously taken a staunch disapproval of flashbacks, will they break it for Bran's visions?

 

Might we see Sean Bean return, cleaning Ice beneath the heart tree at Winterfell and hoping that Robb and Jon grow close like brothers?

 

If they don't break it how will the show display Bran's new found powers? Will he just be able to see in the present?

Edited June 17, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[jjjmoss]

I was reading through Arya’s stuff for S5, and it struck me how she’s kinda in Sansa’s position now, in terms of screen adaptability. Much of her time with the Faceless Men is summarized, and when she does talk it’s about, like, being no one, clams, or providing lists of facts for the kindly man. Her inner self and thoughts are intriguing, but like Sansa in King’s Landing, she doesn’t really express her thoughts aloud much.

 

However, the summarized bits have material that could be mined for actual scenes, like “poisons and potions were for the afternoons...supper was for language lessons...in the evening she played the lying game...she learned to hear the lies, to feel them.” It makes me wonder if, given how GRRM planned a time jump, these summarized bits are a good example of how he would have bridged the gap, and he just didn’t feel interested in filling these particular chapters with fully-fledged scenes. Even killing someone doesn’t make it on the actual page. The action highlight, her official assassination, doesn’t involve words, and we don’t actually see the guy dying. Her best dialogue probably comes outside her POV, when Sam meets her.

[Mormegil]

Another question

 

The show has previously taken a staunch disapproval of flashbacks, will they break it for Bran's visions?

 

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we get some from flashbacks from Bran. 

 

They may have got away with Tyrion sitting in a dark cell for 70 mins this season but I can't see Viewers doing the same for Bran sitting in a dark cave (even if it's only 7 mins over the season).

 

 

So Flashbacks seems to be a good plan.

 

Edited June 17, 2014 by Mormegil

[DigitalCount]

I was under the impression that the Branvisions were the stated exception to the no-flashbacks rule.

[Maximum Taco]

I wouldn't be surprised if we get some from flashbacks from Bran. 

 

They may have got away with Tyrion sitting in a dark cell for 70 mins this season but I can't see Viewers doing the same for Bran sitting in a dark cave (even if it's only 7 mins over the season).

 

 

So Flashbacks seems to be a good plan.

 

Think we'll get a Sean Bean guest shot? Or maybe Chris Hemsworth playing young Ned Stark

 

[Haleth]

Will they start the Oldtowne story line and how much of that.

That too will indicate how important the storyline will be in future books. The whole point is for Sam to learn how to combat the WWs, right? Maybe he'll learn a lot of dragon lore too. I can't see D&D leaving out Sam and Arya crossing paths.

I think we'll get a lot of backstory filled in with Bran's scenes. I think they'll finally address prophesies and secrets that were omitted in earlier seasons.

[elzin]

I do think we will get at least one flashback next season, assuming the casting calls aren't trolling with Maggy the Frog being cast. I mean, I hope it's a flashback. I would nerdrage so hard if it's contemporary fortune telling, as it takes away Cersei's motivation for decades.

[Mormegil]

I do think we will get at least one flashback next season, assuming the casting calls aren't trolling with Maggy the Frog being cast. I mean, I hope it's a flashback. I would nerdrage so hard if it's contemporary fortune telling, as it takes away Cersei's motivation for decades.

 

Wasn't sure if that could be mentioned in this thread or not but yeah given we are likely getting that flashback (as a dream I would guess) I think it's even more likely that we will get Bran ones as well.

 

 

Still hoping that they get the chance to use the scene they filmed for Season 1 of Rickard and Brandon getting killed (though this would mean Bran could see any scene from the past and not just ones near a Weirwood Tree).

 

As to seeing a young Ned Stark, I'm guessing it would be a recast rather than Sean Bean returning.

[Meredith Quill]

Friendly Mod Reminder: As this is a Book Talk thread, there is no need to use spoiler tags for S5 speculation or rumours here. Only info from TWOW requires tags. Thank you.

[Trisan]

I think a flashback of a young Cersei meeting Maggy the Frog would be a great season 5 prologue !

[Hecate7]

They could do it without flashing back, if Cersei's been keeping Maggie the Frog in some dungeon all this time. She could go down and ask Maggie for advice, and Maggie could say, "it's exactly as I told you all those years ago..." and then recap the prophecies. I'd rather see a flashback, myself, but if they're dead set on avoiding flashbacks, there's one way to do it.

[Anne Elk]

I expect lots of Arya. I'm betting the showrunners will flesh out her plotlines because they're potentially so exotic, and because the actress playing her is so good.

It seems like the plan is to have a lot of the season taking place in new locations, with a couple of familiar characters showing up to provide continuity for the audience. It makes me wonder if they may be planning to push some of the storylines back to Season 6 (for example, Cersei's problems in KL or Lady Stoneheart). In all the articles I've read, HBO seems to want the show to continue forever, so I doubt there's any pressure on them to wrap things up, especially since the books won't be finished anytime soon. I really hope this doesn't lead to meandering plotlines just to keep everyone busy so they can put off the end.

Since they gave us that big scene about the White Walkers earlier in the season that gave away spoilers for future books, I would bet they're planning on dropping a few more revelations like that into the show here and there. It makes sense to start building up the sense of threat and menace from the White Walkers if they're going to be so important in the end.

[Mormegil]

They could do it without flashing back, if Cersei's been keeping Maggie the Frog in some dungeon all this time. She could go down and ask Maggie for advice, and Maggie could say, "it's exactly as I told you all those years ago..." and then recap the prophecies. I'd rather see a flashback, myself, but if they're dead set on avoiding flashbacks, there's one way to do it.

 

They're (seemingly) casting for a young Cersei as well as Maggy so it looks like we are getting a flashback.

[elzin]

I said it in words upthread, but I found this great visual for one of my top 3 wishes.

 

[jjjmoss]

They may be planning to push some of the storylines back to Season 6 (for example, Cersei's problems in KL).

 

I already didn't think this made sense, because Cersei is tied for being in the most episodes with Tyrion, and what are the writers going to do with her otherwise, swan around and make out with guys?

 

But per a recent EW interview, D&D are still planning 7 seasons after having drafted most of S5. So I expect pretty much all of books 4 & 5, and a decent chunk of book 6.

Edited June 18, 2014 by jjjmoss

[ElizaD]

Whether the character is Manderly or not, someone needs to do his speech on TV. I've seen speculation that an Umber could take Manderly's place, but I hope he stays. He's just delicious with his snark and Frey pies and "got my heir back, ready to die for my revenge" attitude.

 

But per a recent EW interview, D&D are still planning 7 seasons after having drafted most of S5. So I expect pretty much all of books 4 & 5, and a decent chunk of book 6.

I guess that halts the speculation that S4's great ratings might have led them to rethink the number of seasons. So that makes filler less likely for characters like Sansa and Bran, and show-stuff like Jaime in Dorne will probably take the place of his Riverlands journey and end with him pretty much going straight to TWOW content, Brienne/Stoneheart or whatever else he does if Stoneheart/the death of Freys in the Riverlands has been deemed unnecessary.

 

The interview:

 

As for Varys: Early in the season, when speaking with Tyrion, Varys claims to be concerned primarily with self preservation. At the end of the season, though, his actions prove otherwise. He throws away the entire life he’s built for himself in King’s Landing to save Tyrion’s life. Now what? … “Now what?” will become eminently clear in season 5.

 

Together with the 7 seasons thing, my first thought was no Aegon, Varys genuinely supports Dany.

[Anne Elk]

I'm glad that they are still planning on 7 seasons. I was imagining both the show and the books going on for decades without a resolution. Not a happy thought.

 

I'm kind of dreading the Cersei plotlines. So many ways that could go wrong if it's not done well, and after all the pointless rape scenes this season especially, I'm not sure I trust them to handle it well.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Anne Elk

[jjjmoss]

When it comes to ratings leading to extensions of a hit that already has a plan in place, that's more of a network greed thing than a creative thing. And the writers are the ones who want 7 seasons.

 

Hopefully regardless of who he supports, Varys still has time to come back and be the one to have Kevan and Pycelle killed.

Edited June 18, 2014 by jjjmoss

[Avaleigh]

Considering that I want fAegon kept on the table, I want them to make Euron into a kind of Big Bad, and I want to keep Quentyn releasing the dragons, I think I'm fine with eight seasons and I don't think it would have to have any more filler than usual. Plus it's not like the theoretical eighth season couldn't have say six episodes as opposed to ten. I just don't want them to cut a bunch of stuff just so they can force the story to be told in some thirty remaining episodes.

Quentyn actually shouldn't take much time anyway. Three episodes should be enough to tellhhis story, why not keep it? It amps up the drama in both Meereen and Dorne, it gives Dany somebody new from the seven kingdoms to briefly interact with (Barristan too), and could give us a notable little action sequence that will be a sharp contrast to Dany's triumph with Drogon.

FAegon...I prefer for them to keep fAegon because I think it makes Varys's story make more sense. Would keeping him seriously be that confusing for the Unsullied?

Euron--IMO we desperately need a villain other than Ramsay. The Mountain is going to be on ice for most of the season (and he's basically a faceless villain anyway, at least for me; he has no personality. ) Roose is a villain and he's the next best thing to Tywin for me, but he's also stuck in the North and can only interact with so many characters. Same with Melisandre. Euron though has the potential to get around.

[Winnief]

 

With Sansa, there is some "Who wants to marry the Lord's stepfather's bastard daughter?" stuff, but not much actually happens other than descending from the Aerie.  Her chapters are mostly internal and characterization, not story and plot. So will they make stuff up entirely go to book 6ish stuff?

 

I definitely think they'll be going into TWOW territory for Sansa next season.  My theory, (and clearly I could be WAY off base) is that Sansa's storyline in TWOW was so important they felt they HAD to get moving in order to do it justice, like say Sansa "slaying the giant," aka being LF's downfall and then getting those Vale forces up North, (they are trying to bring everything up North we notice,) and they wanted her to go North by the end of Season Five or beginning of Season 6 so they're laying the groundwork.  I personally believe Sansa is the YMBQ but again, not certain.

 

 

 

The North remembers. The Red Wedding matters: it's not business as usual and successful strategizing, it's the violation of the greatest of taboos and only brings short-term gains. If the Freys are allowed to go unpunished, negotiation and compromise can no longer be trusted. I want Stoneheart, I want Manderly, I want some sign that all the Northern houses suffered losses and are plotting to claim their vengeance instead of groveling submissively before the Boltons and the Lannisters.

I want a scene where Cersei hears the words "Faith Militant" and doesn't back the hell away from the High Septon. The show loves choosing shock over tension (for example, TV Sansa as a total pawn during the escape that hasn't been hinted at so that Littlefinger can appear out of nowhere), but the most glorious thing about AFFC Cersei is that she's a trainwreck you can see coming and nothing drives that point home like her indifference to the religious fanatic.

 

 

Agree on BOTH points.  We NEED Frey Pies damn it!  I personally think the reason they didn't do LSH last season is because they were saying the whole "Vengeance for the Red Wedding" theme for Season Five and wanted to keep it altogether. That's why we haven't heard about poor Edmure in the dungeons or learned what the Blackfish has been up to-it was all about showing the Lannister's internal weaknesses that will soon be exploited by all those they've wronged.

 

Agree, about Cersei in AFFC being a train wreck in slow motion-fortunately I think they'll keep it like that.  There's been hints for a while that Cersei was losing it under pressure what with her increased drinking and they've already set up her dangerous rivalry with Margaery.  Her ordering the wedding leftovers be given to the hounds was classic Cersei; petty, vicious, short-sighted, and ultimately self-destructive.  And the whole, "I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are."  I think they're been paving the way to show her going off the rails for a while now and LH is clearly dying to play it so my hopes are high for next season-especially since we won't be cursed with any more Cersei/Jamie thank the Old Gods and the New.

 

 

Together with the 7 seasons thing, my first thought was no Aegon, Varys genuinely supports Dany.

My thinking as well.  THe Dornish plot can be all about them supporting Myrcella's right to the crown or Dany.  I think they'll keep Euron so he can be the Big Bad for Season 6, but they'll streamline much of the IB plot, and get rid of Damphair and Vic entirely since Dany already has a fleet.  And Season Five definitely ends with Dany meeting Tyrion and setting off for Westeros-they can't delay that any longer on the show even if Martin does.  

 

I also predict the Battles of Winterfell and Mereen take place-they can't build to those big battles all season long to push them into Season 6.  I think the Boltons are going down-their biggest mistake was failing to realize that nobody in the North wanted them in charge and I think Stannis dies in the fight too.  I think poor Grey Worm and Selmy are the walking dead for sure and probably some others in Mereen as well.  I think Bronn's doomed and I'm not feeling good about Robin Arryn's chances or (much worse) Shireen's.  

 

I also think that thanks to Bran we're going to get hints about Jon's parentage AND perhaps some insight into why "There must always be a Stark at Winterfell."  I personally, suspect there's something about the Stark bloodline (the oldest in Westeros and possibly intermingled with CotF) that's critical to the magic keeping the White Walkers at bay-which is going to deepen the anger everyone feels about the way they've been driven down.  In fact sometimes I wonder if Rhaegar chose Lyanna because AA had to have not only Targaryen blood but Stark blood too.

 

Finally, I think Jon gets killed-but Melisandre and/or Bran resurrect him-with a little help from a King's Blood sacrifice.  Whether that's Theon, Shireen, both, or neither is anyone's guess.

[benteen]

Very interesting interview with D and D about Season 5...

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game-of-thrones-season-5/

 

They also said "Who wouldn't want to spend time in Dorne?"  My answer is a lot of people who have read A Feast for Crows.

 

BTW, I agree that after losing two lightening rods like Tywin and Joffrey, the show needs a villain for the audience to rally against.  It could be Cersei but D and D seem to bend over backwards to make her sympathetic.  Can the show (and the books) really build up another big villain this late in the game?

Edited June 19, 2014 by benteen

[John R]

On my wall I have a poster: "The North Remembers" with the direwolf sigil.  I agree with those who want to see a central theme of Season 5 be the beginning of the North's revenge, particularly against the Freys and Boltons.  Wyman Manderly is not optional, nor Lady Stoneheart.  Tyrion is right: King's Landing is not the place to find justice.  But the North is.

[Winnief]

 

BTW, I agree that after losing two lightening rods like Tywin and Joffrey, the show needs a villain for the audience to rally against.  It could be Cersei but D and D seem to bend over backwards to make her sympathetic.  Can the show (and the books) really build up another big villain this late in the game?

 

The books certainly were *trying* with Euron Greyjoy and no one likes the Iron Born.  We'll see how it translates to the show.  And right now everyone in viewerland HATES the Bolton's and Frey's so watching them go down will be the highlight of Season Five.  

[Maximum Taco]

Very interesting interview with D and D about Season 5...

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game-of-thrones-season-5/

 

They also said "Who wouldn't want to spend time in Dorne?"  My answer is a lot of people who have read A Feast for Crows.

 

BTW, I agree that after losing two lightening rods like Tywin and Joffrey, the show needs a villain for the audience to rally against.  It could be Cersei but D and D seem to bend over backwards to make her sympathetic.  Can the show (and the books) really build up another big villain this late in the game?

 

Well they'll have Roose and Ramsay for next season. If they keep in the fake Arya storyline in all its brutality, Ramsay will probably soon be more hated than Joff. And Roose has that cold calculating Tywin Lannister vibe going on.

[MV713]

I have a question.

I have not read the books. I am in love with the show, and facinated by the book talk.

Should I read the books, or will I just be eternally dissatisfied with all the "missing" elements that the show leaves out or twists?

I dont feel like reading the book talk is ruining the series for me.

[anuhealani]

Should I read the books, or will I just be eternally dissatisfied with all the "missing" elements that the show leaves out or twists?

I'd say don't read the books. I'm not even close to a book purist and I'm still pretty dissatisfied with the show (for the comparatively ham-fisted writing and shallow take on the larger story). This way you can enjoy the show for what it is and are pretty much guaranteed to see the ending to what is to you the "real" story.

[Avaleigh]

I say read them. Blanks will be filled, character motivation will often make more sense (not always but it's fun to compare anyway), you'll get a better sense of character backstory, the fights are better, the battles are more exciting, etc. On the downside GRRM's editors are apparently not actually allowed to do much editing so there's a lot of unnecessary repetition that can be frustrating to read particularly in the last two books. There are other issues too with the series, the wait being one, overall though I say if you're already enjoying the show and feel like you want to know more and are already reading Bookwalker threads, why not?

I think season 5 should have the second episode built primarily around Tywin's funeral. It might be the last chance to have certain characters together plus I prefer the idea of seeing an episode centered around a funeral as opposed to a wedding since we've had a few of those already and are due for another one with Tommen and Margaery. There's potential for a lot of interesting conversation and setting up for plots that will play out through the season, so I think it would be a good setting. Oh and just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that the entire episode should be in KL just that the "A" storyline should be Tywin's funeral and related scenes.

I have a feeling it's a long shot but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they keep in the detail of the smiling, foul smelling corpse.

[Maximum Taco]

I also say read the books.

 

I can draw on my sister's experience here, she's all caught up with the show and just started reading A Game of Thrones midway through this season and is currently midway through A Clash of Kings, she has said that after just starting to read the books she is getting such a bigger appreciation for the show, especially since she can remember all the characters a lot better. Now when she's watching with my brother-in-law and he asks "Who's that?" and it's like a fringe character, she's right there with the answer, because their role in the book is more expanded, and she remembers them that way.

 

She did have a bit of confusion over the whole Reek and Theon and Ramsay issue since in the books there's like 3 Reeks in total including Theon and Ramsay himself. But overall she's very happy with the books and it has deepened her appreciation for the show; although she does say she likes the books better than the show now, but that's because it gets more in depth in the surrounding story, and also because she doesn't have to wait for the next episode (wait til she finishes ADWD, then she'll learn our pain of waiting...)

 

I'd say if you're at all interested in learning about the world of Westeros and all the background stuff and fringe characters, read the books. if all you care about is the main characters it might not be worth it.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Lady S.]

Whether the character is Manderly or not, someone needs to do his speech on TV. I've seen speculation that an Umber could take Manderly's place, but I hope he stays. He's just delicious with his snark and Frey pies and "got my heir back, ready to die for my revenge" attitude.

Well, they went to the trouble of having an extra portraying Wendall Manderly in a prominent enough place during the Red Wedding scenes. The only reason to cast a new Umber instead of a new Manderly would be if Davos is just going to find Rickon right there with them.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Lady S.

[Maximum Taco]

Well, they went to the trouble of having an extra portraying Wylis Manderly in a prominent enough place during the Red Wedding scenes. The only reason to cast a new Umber instead of a new Manderly would be if Davos is just going to find Rickon right there with them.

 

Personally I hope they stay with the Manderly's and we get to go to Skagos.

 

I wanna see Shaggydog kill a Unicorn. Or Rickon ride a Unicorn. I want some Unicorns dammit!

[Andeleisha]

I feel like this will be the question all the rest of the show. Like every new major character death or new major plot twist in future seasons will make us wonder was this planned in the book as well or just invented by the writers. One could argue that it doesn't matter in the context of the show. It will probably be a huge topic of discussion though in the last seasons.

I'm curious about those book fans that says they will stop reading the books when the show catches up. When do they consider that to be? Bran and Sasa will be caught up in the begining of next season. Brienne and Pod doesn't have much left either. Or is it KL or the wall that is the way to meassure it?

 

Eh. I've been thinking about not watching the show after next season until the books catch up. 

 

I'm usually a person who actively seeks out spoilers, I'm the type of person who reads the last couple pages of a book first. Knowing the ending helps me relax and enjoy the book more, whereas otherwise I anxiously race through everything just to get to the end. And certainly there have been lots of movies that I liked and only then read the books. 

 

But ASOIAF feels different somehow. There are so many subtle clues in the writing, I want to try figuring that out, I want to enjoy that. I feel like if I watch the end game unfold on the screen I'll miss that. I don't mind being spoiled on small-to-medium sized things, like say, some forward movement in Sansa's storyline next season, but if Sansa DIED epically that would "ruin" that storyline for me in the books. (I'll still read the books no matter what, but bitterly!) 

 

But at the end of the day, I don't think I have enough willpower to stay away from the show for years. I probably couldn't even do it for a single season. (Although it would be kind of fun to binge watch a couple seasons all at once!) I have no idea how non-bookwalkers who love the show don't read the books. How can you be a huge fan of the show -- I'm talking the kind of people who are here every week dissecting the episode -- and NOT want to find out what happens next? 

 

So here's hoping that GRRM publishes TWOW this fall/next spring. 

Edited June 19, 2014 by Andeleisha

[MV713]

Thanks.  I will read the books.  I think it will help my withdrawal over the next 10 months!!

[Maximum Taco]

My problem with stopping the show and waiting for the books, is that I think I would find myself in the position a lot of show watchers are now. Namely that their book reader friends can't help but spoil them cause they love to talk about GoT/ASOIAF. I'm very good about not spoiling, my friends typically thank me for this.

 

But everyone I know watches this show, and it only takes one of them making a mistake to spoil me. I'd rather be spoiled by the show, then spoiled by someone telling me what happens accidentally or on purpose.

 

But I also hope George hurries up and puts out atleast TWOW before we get to season 6.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Andeleisha]

My problem with stopping the show and waiting for the books, is that I think I would find myself in the position a lot of show watchers are now. Namely that their book reader friends can't help but spoil them cause they love to talk about GoT/ASOIAF. I'm very good about not spoiling, my friends typically thank me for this.

 

But everyone I know watches this show, and it only takes one of them making a mistake to spoil me. I'd rather be spoiled by the show, then spoiled by someone telling me what happens accidentally or on purpose.

 

But I also hope George hurries up and puts out atleast TWOW before we get to season 6.

 

This. Exactly. 

 

I don't know if anyone else saw this article about predicting TWOW release date? 

 

 

Perhaps the most encouraging analysis comes from another reader, who did some sleuthing and deduced from a gap between August 2014 and May 2015 in Martin’s rarely empty appearance schedule that the writer may have some plans to publish in the spring or summer of 2015. This seven-month gap is consistent with another in Martin’s schedule from November 2010 to June 2011, when the fifth book in the series, “A Dance With Dragons,” was formally announced.

 

This raises my hopes that we'll have news about The Winds of Winter before the fall! 

[debi49]

Re: Reading books vs. not:  The character that is most compelling in the books, to me, is Stannis, yet not so much in the show. You also get a bigger sense of the motivation of characters when knowing the family histories. Books 4 and 5 were a slog to me, and the Reek/Ramsey chapters in 5 were too disturbing for words.

 

If you don't have the bluray DVDs, look for the extras on YOU TUBE for "History and Lore " of Game of thrones/westeros/ whatever.....They are really good and tell some good backstory.

Edited June 19, 2014 by debi49

[Winnief]

Not to mention another problem with waiting for the books is that either you or Martin might not live long enough to finish them...

[Maximum Taco]

Not to mention another problem with waiting for the books is that either you or Martin might not live long enough to finish them...

 

George seems in fine health, yeah he's old and kinda fat, but he seems healthy enough to travel, and travel a lot. Most people who are dying are jetsetting that much. And it's uncommon for someone to just drop dead at 65.

 

Most people bring up GRRM's death as a possibility because it happened to Robert Jordan, but Jordan had cardiac amyloidosis. If he didn't have amyloidosis he probably would've been able to finish his series as well.

 

If you're worried about your own health, that's a totally legitimate problem, but I know I'd be worrying about things other than a fantasy series if I was dying. Anyway people who say George will die before finishing are just being morbid.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Haleth]

I'd suggest reading the books... twice because 1) you (er, I) miss so many subtleties the first time and 2) you'll have plenty of time anyway before book 7 is published.

[jjjmoss]

They also said "Who wouldn't want to spend time in Dorne?"  My answer is a lot of people who have read A Feast for Crows.

 

Dorne/Arianne is good. Much better than Sam, Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Brienne, Jaime, Davos...And the only "new" storyline the book needs to keep, way over fAegon, the other Greyjoys, or Quentyn.

The comparatively ham-fisted writing and shallow take

 

I would consider this a problem with GRRM's writing as well.

 

I'd suggest reading the books... twice

I would recommend against this if like me you find many, many of the chapters to be tolerable at best the first time around. But the scarce great chapters I've read several times. This is how I approach the show too.

Edited June 19, 2014 by jjjmoss

[Maximum Taco]

Dorne/Arianne is good. Much better than Sam, Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Brienne, Jaime, Davos...And the only "new" storyline the book needs to keep, way over fAegon, the other Greyjoys, or Quentyn.

 

Nothing is worse than Dany in ADWD. Scribbling Mrs. Daario Naharis over and over in her pink trapper keeper while Meereen goes to shit.

 

I'd rather have chapters and chapters of Dornish and Greyjoys then have moon faced Dany wishing she could stay in bed with Daario all day. blech.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Winnief]

 

I'd rather have chapters and chapters of Dornish and Greyjoys then have moon faced Dany wishing she could stay in bed with Daario all day. blech.

 

Good news is, again I think the faster pace they're going with, will help curb that somewhat on the show.