S03.E15: Chapter Fifty: American Dreams

[Bort]

As Gladys prepares for FP's 50th birthday party, Jughead questions his mom's motives for returning to Riverdale. When an unexpected encounter brings Archie back into the world of G&G, Jughead and Betty devise a plan to help him face his past head-on. Finally, Cheryl and Toni find themselves at a crossroads, and Veronica reveals a damaging secret to Betty.

Airdate: Wednesday, March 13, 2019

[RandomWatcher]

Fred: You don't get to many nights like this. 

Never has a line been more prophetic

[meggonzo]

I'll miss the Fred/FP bromance. 😢

I'm holding on to hope that Shannen Doherty has a cameo in the Heathers episode.  It would have been nice to see her and Luke together again.

[Duckie30ca]

Ugh. Seeing Luke was like a knife to my heart. (I thought last episode was his last appearance). And yes!  His “you don’t get many nights like this...”. The tears!

[opus]

Also Freds  “As I live and breathe” 😢

[WhosThatGirl]

The only things that got me, the short moments with Fred. And the ending line with Betty and Jughead about taking Gladys down.

I thought this episode was boring honestly. 

[Advance35]

Betty managed to surprise me in a pleasant manner by not automatically telling Jughead that it was Veronica that told her about Gladys.  Sometimes I feel like if Betty Cooper had a theme song it would be "Stand by your man."  

Cheryl and Toni. Sigh. Whatever.  Neither one matters to me.

I think the love of Veronica's life, is and may always be, Veronica.  Not surprising, a wealthy, only child isn't used to sharing.  She's not a monster but she does believe it's Veronica first.   If she ever gets married Veronica is going to just assume her hubby to be is fine with signing a pre-nup. lol

Her final scene was the most pathos they've ever given Veronica and Reggie and it was well done.  I actually understood where both of them were coming from.  Veronica's good with material things.  It's what Hiram and Hermione have always valued most.  It's clearly something they've passed on to her.  They've never taught her the value of deep, genuine emotion.  She doesn't understand it, she's not sure what to do with it when she encounters it.  I don't doubt she thought getting Reggie's car back would fix things.

I hope they follow-up on this situation for them both.  I'd be interested in seeing how/if they can get past it.

On a shallow note, there wasn't one outfit of Veronica's that wasn't FLAWLESS tonight and then she had that last outfit. Sigh.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Advance35 said:

Betty managed to surprise me in a pleasant manner by not automatically telling Jughead that it was Veronica that told her about Gladys.  Sometimes I feel like if Betty Cooper had a theme song it would be "Stand by your man."  

Cheryl and Toni. Sigh. Whatever.  Neither one matters to me.

I think the love of Veronica's life, is and may always be, Veronica.  Not surprising, a wealthy, only child isn't used to sharing.  She's not a monster but she does believe it's Veronica first.   If she ever gets married Veronica is going to just assume her hubby to be is fine with signing a pre-nup. lol

Her final scene was the most pathos they've ever given Veronica and Reggie and it was well done.  I actually understood where both of them were coming from.  Veronica's good with material things.  It's what Hiram and Hermione have always valued most.  It's clearly something they've passed on to her.  They've never taught her the value of deep, genuine emotion.  She doesn't understand it, she's not sure what to do with it when she encounters it.  I don't doubt she thought getting Reggie's car back would fix things.

I hope they follow-up on this situation for them both.  I'd be interested in seeing how/if they can get past it.

On a shallow note, there wasn't one outfit of Veronica's that wasn't FLAWLESS tonight and then she had that last outfit. Sigh.

Eh. I think it’s been shown that Reggie cares more about Veronica than she does aboutbuim and I kind of hope they don’t suddenly make her fall madly in love with him. And I’m not even a Varchie fan I like that she wants to keep things light and  fun and she should be allowed. I have no faith that the writers will let this happen though. She’s probably going to be madly in love with him next episode.

Choni is awful. 

[jay741982]

LOVED the Bughead moment at the end with Jug Telling Betty what he was going to do, Asking if she wanted in and her Smirk 

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

LOVED the Bughead moment at the end with Jug Telling Betty what he was going to do, Asking if she wanted in and her Smirk 

That was probably my 2nd favorite moment. The first being all of Fred lines and scenes. All his moments seem to get more meaning each week. 

But yeah to me Bughead continues to be a great relationship on this show. But can Choni breakup? The show knows what it’s doing right? With the way they are showing that relationship right?

Also Tom really needs to check on his sons well being. Or maybe not, if Kevin gets killed in the cult it’s his own stupid fault.

Edited March 14, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[WhosThatGirl]

5 minutes ago, MollyWebber said:

Hottest scene of the season and they didn't even have to touch!

Yes to the Three Musketeers! That was such a treat to watch. I hate to say it but I prefer Archie out of Veronica's orbit. I think they need her to go full-blown REAL bad girl for at least one season. It would make her seem less wishy-washy and I think I'd feel more invested in her storyline as I do with Archie, Betty, and Jughead. I think Cami would make a great bad girl and I want to see her shine more.

Double yes that Betty told Jughead right away about Gladys and he didn't doubt her for a moment. So many people were nervous about this spoiler but the writing continues to keep them strong.

Luke! 😭❤

Hey I’m one of the ones who got nervous and that’s because I still have residual stress and pain  from how Bughead was treated last season. 

Also again I hope Veggie doesn’t become in love next episode. Veronica is allowed to have fun and be having just hookups. I kind of hate that the show was trying to make her the wrong party here. Reggie should have been aware of what she wanted.

Also veronica should have said to Reggie “you wanna be my partner, okay then half of my debt to my dad and Gladys is yours too.. fork over the money or stop whining”

Edited March 14, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Advance35]

Quote

Also again I hope Veggie doesn’t become in love next episode. Veronica is allowed to have fun and be having just hookups. I kind of hate that the show was trying to make her the wrong party here. Reggie should have been aware of what she wanted.

The show always gives Veronica the villains edit.  I've gotten use to it.

Part of me wishes they would write Veronica off so I could stop watching this dumpster fire of a show, but alas.

[tennisgurl]

Seeing Fred still hurts so much, guys. Especially with all the talk in this episode about living and being a dad. "You dont get many nights like tonight." While I will most miss the Archie and Fred relationship, I`ll miss his friendship with FP a lot too.

What do you know, Jughead and Betty actually got some good scenes in! Loved that she told him the truth about his mom right away, and he believed her right away, no withholding secrets or pointless defensive conflicts. Huzzah! The scene with them at the end was great, and I generally really liked everything with them and Archie. The three of them just really work so well together, they have such strong chemistry, they really do come off as old friends. 

Gladys is impressively full of shit, even by this shows standards. 

Reggie has always been more into Veronica than she was into him, but Veronica is always kind of going to be Team Veronica, so that makes sense. Its not totally her fault, being a rich only child with mobster parents, and she loves very hard, but its hard for her to really commit to people, especially romantically. I actually did find the last scene with them interesting, as you could feel that Veronica really did think that getting Reggie his car would make everything better, because thats how things were in her family. Fight with someone, get them something, everything's fine now.

Cheryl really was made to be in Heather's the Musical. Also, the farm sponsors musicals at their school? Riverdale High really must be on top of one of those Hell Mouths. 

So are the red capes on sale at the same Party City that has two for one sales on those Gargyle outfits? Oh the drama! 

Edited March 14, 2019 by tennisgurl

[WhosThatGirl]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Seeing Fred still hurts so much, guys. Especially with all the talk in this episode about living and being a dad. "You dont get many nights like tonight." While I will most miss the Archie and Fred relationship, I`ll miss his friendship with FP a lot too.

What do you know, Jughead and Betty actually got some good scenes in! Loved that she told him the truth about his mom right away, and he believed her right away, no withholding secrets or pointless defensive conflicts. Huzzah! The scene with them at the end was great, and I generally really liked everything with them and Archie. The three of them just really work so well together, they have such strong chemistry, they really do come off as old friends. 

Gladys is impressively full of shit, even by this shows standards. 

Reggie has always been more into Veronica than she was into him, but Veronica is always kind of going to be Team Veronica, so that makes sense. Its not totally her fault, being a rich only child with mobster parents, and she loves very hard, but its hard for her to really commit to people, especially romantically. I actually did find the last scene with them interesting, as you could feel that Veronica really did think that getting Reggie his car would make everything better, because thats how things were in her family. Fight with someone, get them something, everything's fine now.

Cheryl really was made to be in Heather's the Musical. Also, the farm sponsors musicals at their school? Riverdale High really must be on top of one of those Hell Mouths. 

So are the red capes on sale at the same Party City that has two for one sales on those Gargyle outfits? Oh the drama! 

Well this year the farm sponsors it, last year Hiram was the sponsor.

Also I think hiram was playing Archie. Okay giving him the gym is his olive branch? Yeah, right. Sure.

And seeing Fred is going to probably continue to be painful. I think we may have a few more with him in them and it’s gpong to be even more painful I think.

Also I dislike Cheryl. So much. She’s truly awful. So her getting the musical she wants. Ick.

Andnyes to Bughead this is the most content Bughead has gotten together in a while honestly. Also I like the friendship with Betty Archie and Jughead. I really wish the show would just keep that and hit try to make it into a triangle.. I mean yeah this probably isn’t happening this season but next season who knows. It makes me sad for veronica though. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[ruby24]

Was that it for Veronica and Reggie? They gave them a few episodes, so I kind of wonder if when shows do stuff like this they're checking to see if the couple "works" onscreen or not. Did they decide this one didn't?

They've honestly never even tried to develop Reggie as a character (this episode might have been the most dialogue he's ever had), but I don't know if that's because they think Charles is too limited as an actor or what (he is, a bit). 

I see some think they'll get back together in the next one, but I can't really tell. It's possible that might have just been it. The thing is I don't think they can go much further with it unless they try a little harder to give Reggie some depth. Even though Josie doesn't have that much screen time, in the recent episodes she's had with Archie, they've given her more material as a character than anything Reggie's ever gotten. She feels more like an actual person.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, ruby24 said:

Was that it for Veronica and Reggie? They gave them a few episodes, so I kind of wonder if when shows do stuff like this they're checking to see if the couple "works" onscreen or not. Did they decide this one didn't?

They've honestly never even tried to develop Reggie as a character (this episode might have been the most dialogue he's ever had), but I don't know if that's because they think Charles is too limited as an actor or what (he is, a bit). 

I see some think they'll get back together in the next one, but I can't really tell. It's possible that might have just been it. The thing is I don't think they can go much further with it unless they try a little harder to give Reggie some depth. Even though Josie doesn't have that much screen time, in the recent episodes she's had with Archie, they've given her more material as a character than anything Reggie's ever gotten. She feels more like an actual person.

 I’m like 90% sure the show is going to have Veronica realize she really likes Reggie a lot more than she has let on. For some reason I just don’t see the show letting them go this easy, especially because I think the show wants to do some sort of triangle with Varchie vs Veggie. Unless that one episode when Archie found out about them was it but I don’t think So. I feel like there has to be more to that relationship. Plus I feel like the show has hyped up Veggie for this to be it? Doubtful. I could be wrong but they seem to have put some stock into it.

Personal preference I don’t think they work that great. And again I’m not a Varchie fan saying this, but everyone sees chemistry and I just don’t. Veronica never even seems like she enjoys him all that much to be honest, unless they’re hooking up or about to. When they talk she really just seems like she’s pandering to him, she doesn’t want to have actual conversations about real things. Anyone remember when he causally mentioned his dad beating him  so he’s cool stealing money from him on him and she was all “okay cool so how can we steal the money?” She doesn’t really care. It’s hard to root for that sort of couple and it’s going to be hard to root for them if next week veronica claims she does love him. 

[nilyank]

Why is Archie so damned polite to Hiram and thanking him for anything?

The man has tried to have you killed several times and set you to go to prison. This latest nonsense where he had to fight off a dozen of guys in cosplay because of something Hiram originally did to get Archie killed.

Those few seconds with Fred were a gut wrenching.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, nilyank said:

Why is Archie so damned polite to Hiram and thanking him for anything?

The man has tried to have you killed several times and set you to go to prison. This latest nonsense where he had to fight off a dozen of guys in cosplay because of something Hiram originally did to get Archie killed.

Those few seconds with Fred were a gut wrenching.

Right? And again I’m asking does anyone else think that giving Archie this underground basement gym is going to lead to something terribly horrible for Archie? Why is archie trusting this so called olive branch?

[AnimeMania]

Is Riverdale still under quarantine?

Why are the Ghoulies hanging out in school, do they really go there?

Cheryl and Toni break up. Toni needs a new place to live, Betty needs a new place to live. Maybe the Pretty Poisons and the Serpents can join up. Only the Ghoulies are loyal to Jughead's mom, barely. Maybe Archie's Gym can be the Serpents new clubhouse.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, I know the writers had no idea what was going to happen during this time, but seeing Fred share a scene with FP reminiscing about their past and looking forward to being neighbors, was hard to watch.  I still can't believe Luke Perry is gone and I am so not looking forward to Fred's eventual exit and how that will change things for everyone.

Anyway, it was fun watching Jughead, Betty, and Archie team up, and they end up honestly taking the simplistic (for this show, at least) approach to getting the hit off of Archie by making it look like the "Gargoyle King" wanted to a battle royale instead, which Archie naturally won since he's apparently the new Rocky Balboa now, when it comes to boxing.  Hey, whatever works!  And now he's even a proud owner of said gym, although as with most things involving Hiram, there really has to be another angle with his "gift."

Veronica ends up telling Betty about Gladys' plans, Betty refreshingly tells Jughead instead of keeping it to herself, and Jughead refreshingly believes her (although, he makes sure to get confirmation from Fangs and Sweet Pea), so it is at least nice seeing them not devolve into petty drama like normal.

Speaking of petty drama, Cheryl is basically continuing to be a jackass and jealous over Toni daring to treat her position as the Pretty Poison leader seriously, and not just wanting to be Cheryl's plaything anymore.  As much as I enjoyed her character in the past (and still love Madelaine Petsch), get the fuck over yourself, Cheryl!

Granted, Veronica gave her a little bit of competition by not realizing that she's been undermining Reggie this entire time, but at least she seems to acknowledge her fault about that, but at the end of the day, she's always going to put herself first.

As much as I like Keller, FP calling Riverdale's best sheriff really doesn't speak well of that department.  Keller's one of the good adults here, but he was never good as the whole policing thing.  And retirement hasn't seemed to help him since he apparently has no idea his son joined a cult.

Hilariously, this might have been one of the more normal episodes of Riverdale, even if it involved everything from Archie punching the lights out of a bunch of obsessed gamers, a gang policing the town, and ending with two teenagers declaring they're going to bring down one of the biggest gangsters in the town.  Who happens to be one of their mothers!

[PeekaBoo]

I loved this episode!!!

Ok, the whole Archie thing is MEH. The only think I liked about the whole thing is that he got himself a boxing ring of his own (ok, so are archie and hiram now BFFS? Gah!) and that we got to see archie, bettty and jughead together. Always good.

THe Veronica thing… Same old same old, I just don’t know whether she’s good or not… Ok, it’s good that she finally told betty about Gladys but come on, she is not that innocent and that is so annoying! I mean please, let her pay up for her dues. She’s just as guilty as the rest. Eugh, I don’t know what to make of her anymore but I’m not liking her a lot… And I know she’s unsure with Reggie but jeez….

The Falice break-up…. I gotta admit, it hurt. In a perfect world, with a so-not-perfect Alice, they would’ve been together but reality sucks. I think they do like each other but timing is everything, they say…. And their timing always sucks.

FP’s birithday… Ok, at least we got spared from some singing! Ha! Nah, it was sweet and sad to see Fred giving FP a hug… damn, that hurt…

THe Joneses thing --- I’m happy that Jughead was always suspicious and NOT buying into Gladys’s words or ignoring Betty’s warning… Gladys managed to get him where it hurts but he managed to up her…

That will be interesting…

The CHoni make-up/break-up…. While their steamy scene was beyond STEAMY, its sad that we got a break-up… Will it last? I don’t know…I think Toni knows Cheryl is just acting out… I’ll expect a make-up soon… But their whole ship is just ridiculous…. I really want them to be happy, I really want to ship them… But it’s just comin out all wrong…

The ending….

Whoa, Bughead is sizzle-ing!!!

Next episode… Betty’s wearing the crown shirt and the heart shirt, squee!!!

[WhosThatGirl]

I’m happy Falice broke up. I don’t get the love for that pairing since both are kind of terrible. I mean I don’t want FP with Gladys she’s awful but I don’t like FP all that much either. It’s odd we are forgetting his history of being terrible and forgetting his sketchy behavior the first half of this season.

Aside from the Bughead of it all as I said o found this episode kind of boring.

Edited March 14, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Me watching episode: So far so good, levels of crazy steady and holding.

*Fred/FP scene*

Me: Oh... oh. *crumples to floor, tears leaking out*

Sometimes writers get a scene right for a reason they couldn't possibly know, the worst kind of correct. At least Skeet Ulrich got to say goodbye to someone he had no notion was leaving.

But about the rest of the episode! *draws deep, shaky breath*

Okay, so this one is about bad timing, and trying to fake good timing, and how you can fool some of the people all of the time (Archie being president of this particular club), but not all the people. Jughead already had his suspicions so Betty's news and Fang's/Sweet Pea's confirmation of Gladys's nefarious dealings weren't the body blow finding out about Jelly Bean is going to be. It was more along the lines of "Yeah, had an idea that this was what it seemed to be rather than what my mom is pretending it is" and he (thank God) doesn't dither about shutting it down. LOOOOOVED he and Betty's twin smirks as they plot world domination.

I'm very glad the show remembered Betty and Veronica know each other and that Vee didn't hesitate (well she did a bit, but because it was bad news) to tell her about Gladys. Of course she didn't mention her own role, but let's face it, what Veronica did was to try to get her parents OUT of the drug trade, which is exactly what Jug and Betty want to do too. So I can't really blame her for that one.

Archie's Red Paladin thing was reallllly dragging on, almost as much as the whole Edgar Evernever reveal, so if it means wrapping up this particular thread, then I am fine pretending that these Fizzle Rock-riddled morons all got in the ring with someone who's been training in this sport (some wearing full leather outfits) and got their asses handed to them one by one while Archie endures ten beatings in a row and still isn't mumbling about socks and pudding in a cranial trauma clinic somewhere, ending in not one fatality or permanent injury, apparently. When the real Gargoyle King hears about this it's all going to blow up again but what the hell.

(Speaking of, since Hiram printed up those things, who did he give them to, exactly? Because if it was to the Warden and Tall Boy directly why was the actual GK okay with that? And if he gave the rest to the King how is it he doesn't know who the guy is?)

(Also, did Josie know about any of this? Did Archie drop by her house for his usual round of vigorous boning post violent multiple attacks on his tender person?)

Archie queries exactly none of this, of course, being too busy going "Sure, I'll trust you about this boxing ring/Fizzle Rock and other malfeasance-heavy activity drop, Mr. Lodge! Nothing bad has happened when I listen to you!" Honestly, Archie, this is the man who tried to have you killed, okay? It's time to get on the Clue Bus!

Cheryl and Toni, thank you for demonstrating that sexual connection does not automatically equal long-term compatibility. They may care about each other, but Cheryl's bizarre upbringing means she's deeply damaged and sees love as a kind of romantic hostage taking, while Toni is understandably uncomfortable being treated as a Pekingese at the Waldorf-Astoria. I did enjoy the return of Cheryl's cape/spider pin/bossing around of Kevin, though. I like Cheryl best when she's just queening around spreading Cheryl's Demands far and wide. 

Alice and FP had a little moment there when the writers actually remembered they were in love. It was nice to see Madchen and Skeet get that scene where they go man, we just never get a break, do we?

Quote

Also veronica should have said to Reggie “you wanna be my partner, okay then half of my debt to my dad and Gladys is yours too.. fork over the money or stop whining”

Veronica and Reggie. The problem when you both have good points to make but they're on different pieces of paper.

Veronica is correct in pointing out she's not exactly rolling in the dough and what Reggie's asking doesn't make sense in any realistic way. Plus, it's not like she forced or bribed him into helping her: his reasons included wanting to make her see him as a romantic possibility and sticking it to his dad. But he's got a point too: he really has given up a lot and Veronica does tend to string people along and try to make amends through material means. 

It's always hard to realize that somebody just doesn't feel the same way about you as you do about them. Conversely, it's tough to grasp that a person who genuinely feels for you can't dial that back no matter how much you reason with them or try to fix the superficial aspects of the problem. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh Alice and FP shouldn’t get a break,  @Snookums we agree on a lot but I disagree there. I don’t think Falice should get a happy ending together because they don’t deserve it. Both characters are awful. FP May be getting a good writing story wise now, but I guess were supposed to forget his awful behavior in the last, including as I keep saying the first half of this season. But whatever. Alice is still awful. I can’t stand her. Plus let’s be real they are totally going to bring them back together. Just because Gladys is awful doesn’t mean Alice is the best. Sorry not sorry for speaking the truth. And again FP is bad too. 

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, Snookums said:

(Also, did Josie know about any of this? Did Archie drop by her house for his usual round of vigorous boning post violent multiple attacks on his tender person?)

The Josie character is moving to a Riverdale spin-off TV series, so they will probably start to tie up her loose ends on this TV show.

[Wilpen]

Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa wrote this episode. Coincidence? I don't think so. This was one of the better episodes of the series because Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa understands the characters. He put heart and soul into this episode, you can absolutely feel it in every scene. Core 4 in various combinations were highlighted. Coincidence? No way. I really wish he could write every episode and/or instruct the other writers to please use his formula. It works. Absolutely everything just felt so ON in this episode. It was refreshing. Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa, write, write, write. Thanks. 

- Reggie standing up for himself to Veronica was good. I actually feel kind of sorry for him but the problem with Reggie is the character is not fleshed out at all. We know his dad has beat him which is huge yet there was zero follow up. We can't really connect. I still felt a tad sorry for him. Then again, it was really obvious very early on Veronica simply wasn't that into him. Veronica is a good person deep down... but she also was raised by two mobster, murdering parents in a filthy rich environment. Of course there's going to be side effects as a result. So even if she was "mean" to Reggie, she was being honest and her true self. She works way better with someone like Archie for a romantic partner and Betty and Jughead for friends because they don't put up with her sht. They keep her grounded, less cold and selfish. 

- Choni anger sex...  The actresses are on fire with chemistry (BFF off the screen, you can tell) during their scenes. I’m glad Toni is sticking up for herself. 

- Jughead and Gladys trailer scene was good writing and acting. Cole and Gina were bringing it. I read that they hit it off the second Gina started working on the set. You can tell. Nonverbal communication so profound. 

- Jughead's speech was amazing, Cole was brilliant. 

- I liked the FP/Jughead moment in the police car. 

- The Fred/FP moment... seriously... when you listen to the words exchanged... man, it's almost like it was spiritually motivated... in advance. Those words just ring true so much...  

- Still don't trust Hiram with Archie. I am expecting some sort of twist.  

- I've never really supported FP and Alice (Alice is too nuts and just a horrible mother) but when Alice asked FP if he loved her... it was pretty sad. Skeet and Madchen bring a nice chemistry.  

- I loved watching the Archie/Betty/Jughead trio so much! What a terrific reminder of how long they’ve been friends. Betty and Jughead certainly are the intellectuals in order to get sht done. I just love these three together. 

- Bughead! Perfect. They are so real and natural. You almost feel like they have been together their entire lives. They are that one high school couple that everyone thinks will marry because they’re so real and smooth sailing together. That end scene with the grinning was sizzling. 

- Betty and Veronica scene... finally! 

I really enjoyed this episode. This show is the definition of insane but when you give me episodes with heart and soul sporting the Core 4 (in different combinations) I’m always going to be satisfied. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Wilpen

[SourK]

I kind of liked this! Mostly because some of the characters seemed smart.

• Betty telling Jughead what Veronica told her without bringing Veronica's name into it
• Jughead telling the gang to check it out without bringing Betty or Galdys' name into it
• Jughead confronting Galdys without bringing Betty's name into it
• Hiram giving Archie the exact thing he wants most at this moment and pretending it's a weird coincidence
• Betty realizing it's a bad idea to move in with Jughead's family when she doesn't know his mom
• Veronica realizing that giving half of her business to her boyfriend is a total no-go and paying him back for the stuff he invested so he wouldn't feel like she owed him anything
• Toni realizing that she moved in with Cheryl too fast and what Cheryl's motives were for being so manipulative
• Jughead realizing that it doesn't help anyone to make a big scene at his dad's birthday and that he needs to bide his time
• Jughead figuring out that maybe they can lie to the Gargoyle dudes and change the game

I was curious about whether the show was setting us up for Veronica/Toni, but now that I've learned Josie is leaving, I think we're on the path back to Archie/Veronica, which I'm not thrilled about, since it seems like it would put things back exactly how they were last season in the Archie-Veronica-Hiram triangle.

There was still some stuff that didn't totally make sense to me, like why FP has decided that he's living his life-long dream to "provide for his family" by having his estranged wife blow back into town for her own private reasons, force her way into his life, and buy a house for everyone to live in. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with having your wife be the breadwinner who buys a house for your family to live in. Just, I wouldn't classify any of this as something he accomplished, since he didn't make a real effort to work on his issues or reunite his family in the first place. It just happened to him.

And Archie's an idiot for taking the gym, but that's kind of a character trait at this point, so okay.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, SourK said:

I kind of liked this! Mostly because some of the characters seemed smart.

• Betty telling Jughead what Veronica told her without bringing Veronica's name into it
• Jughead telling the gang to check it out without bringing Betty or Galdys' name into it
• Jughead confronting Galdys without bringing Betty's name into it
• Hiram giving Archie the exact thing he wants most at this moment and pretending it's a weird coincidence
• Betty realizing it's a bad idea to move in with Jughead's family when she doesn't know his mom
• Veronica realizing that giving half of her business to her boyfriend is a total no-go and paying him back for the stuff he invested so he wouldn't feel like she owed him anything
• Toni realizing that she moved in with Cheryl too fast and what Cheryl's motives were for being so manipulative
• Jughead realizing that it doesn't help anyone to make a big scene at his dad's birthday and that he needs to bide his time
• Jughead figuring out that maybe they can lie to the Gargoyle dudes and change the game

I was curious about whether the show was setting us up for Veronica/Toni, but now that I've learned Josie is leaving, I think we're on the path back to Archie/Veronica, which I'm not thrilled about, since it seems like it would put things back exactly how they were last season in the Archie-Veronica-Hiram triangle.

There was still some stuff that didn't totally make sense to me, like why FP has decided that he's living his life-long dream to "provide for his family" by having his estranged wife blow back into town for her own private reasons, force her way into his life, and buy a house for everyone to live in. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with having your wife be the breadwinner who buys a house for your family to live in. Just, I wouldn't classify any of this as something he accomplished, since he didn't make a real effort to work on his issues or reunite his family in the first place. It just happened to him.

And Archie's an idiot for taking the gym, but that's kind of a character trait at this point, so okay.

Well.. in the first season fP did seem to want to bring his family back together but then people wanted Falice and season 2 happened and the show forgot FP was still technically married and they had Alice and Hal be separated and cheating on each ofher(long before they decided to make him the black hood) so season 2 kind of changed things. So yeah it makes all his monologue about the American dream kind of strange I agree. And I can’t support falice. Also I can’t think they are done but again I have to say gladys is trash yes but so is alice. And again fp is terrible too. Even this season. But whatever. I can’t want a happy ending for any of these characters.

Also yes looking back I thought this episode was boring but now I realize I really like it. I agree with someone else RAS wrote this episode and it shows. His episodes are always better. He writes Bughead extremely well. That last scene was super hot and sizzling and they didn’t touch or kiss. He also wrote a Choni scene and I don’t like that pairing much anymore but this should shut the Choni stand up that he doesn’t give a damn about That pairing, look what he did.

It was actually a decent episode. I thought it was boring at first as I said but now on a rewatch I kind of liked it. I mean I’m not a fan of whatever they are trying to do with FP, because he was really sketchy and weird the first half of this season but here we are, so..

Edited March 15, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Quote

@SNOOKUMS we agree on a lot but I disagree there. I don’t think Falice should get a happy ending together because they don’t deserve it. Both characters are awful. FP May be getting a good writing story wise now, but I guess were supposed to forget his awful behavior in the last, including as I keep saying the first half of this season. But whatever. Alice is still awful.

Well, I'd never argue that either of them should get Parent of the Year, or even a You Kinda Tried lapel pin, frankly, but what I liked about the scene is that it gave both actors a small scene to show facets of their characters that aren't usually used with all the crazy plot twists swirling around, and how it showed that these two people weren't always this way.

Once they were just two kids in love, and it all went wrong and kept going wrong until the craziest shit kept happening and happening and now they're middle aged and have kids and one married a serial killer and the other's an ex-gang leader who's the sheriff now...

And our kids are DATING, for God's sake, and how the hell did I make all these bad choices? Which was the one that led to all the others? I didn't want to be this way. I put tons of energy into trying not to be the way I am, but I can't change back to the young girl/boy I was, who saw you in the school hallway and felt my heart melt and knew everything led to you, and it still does, but what I did for all those years is standing between us and we can't reach past it.

FP and Alice can't change or excuse all their bad, bad, fuckups. They've left permanent marks on their children and have been bad, careless people for a lot of years. But they weren't always this way.

[Dobian]

I guess this show isn't even going through the pretense that these kids are in high school anymore.  They're all just hanging out at speakeasies, gang hideouts, and fight clubs now lol.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Dobian

[WhosThatGirl]

29 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Well, I'd never argue that either of them should get Parent of the Year, or even a You Kinda Tried lapel pin, frankly, but what I liked about the scene is that it gave both actors a small scene to show facets of their characters that aren't usually used with all the crazy plot twists swirling around, and how it showed that these two people weren't always this way.

Once they were just two kids in love, and it all went wrong and kept going wrong until the craziest shit kept happening and happening and now they're middle aged and have kids and one married a serial killer and the other's an ex-gang leader who's the sheriff now...

And our kids are DATING, for God's sake, and how the hell did I make all these bad choices? Which was the one that led to all the others? I didn't want to be this way. I put tons of energy into trying not to be the way I am, but I can't change back to the young girl/boy I was, who saw you in the school hallway and felt my heart melt and knew everything led to you, and it still does, but what I did for all those years is standing between us and we can't reach past it.

FP and Alice can't change or excuse all their bad, bad, fuckups. They've left permanent marks on their children and have been bad, careless people for a lot of years. But they weren't always this way.

Eh I honestly don’t think they were in love as teenagers. And yes even though I didn’t want to I did watch the flashback episode and I’m sorry but Alice was always awful, even as a teenager. FP actually wasn’t that bad as a teen but Alice was a mean sprinted person and always has been. That’s how I see it. And I’m sorry but some of the choices they made and they continued to make. That is on them. Especially in the case of Alice actually. I’ve never seen a season where she has been decent actually. People say season 2 but she was awful then. And seasonone.. I guess people forget some of her very first moments in the pilot. I’m sorry but I can’t.

Again we can agree to disagree. Which is fine but this is just how I feel. I can never like the Alice character. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Quote

I guess this show isn't even going through the pretense that these kids are in high school anymore.  They're all just hanging out at speakeasies, gang hangouts, and fight clubs now lol.

When Gladys said she was going to enroll Jellybean in school I thought "why?"

[Dobian]

Reggie is a dolt.  Veronica knows that if she partnered with him she'd lose her whole business in a month.  Best to just keep him on the payroll.

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Snookums said:

When Gladys said she was going to enroll Jellybean in school I thought "why?"

14 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I guess this show isn't even going through the pretense that these kids are in high school anymore.  They're all just hanging out at speakeasies, gang hideouts, and fight clubs now lol.

Well when this show does try to incorporate school into it it does not work at all. Case in point last weeks episode. It really makes you wonder if anybody who works on this show has ever been to a real school before, like the scene with Weatherbee being all to Toni and Jughead “control your gangs!” And the fact that the school allows for after school meetups of said gangs and cult clubs. 

Seriously making this into a teen drama constantly feels like it was a mistake at times, mostly when they try to bring in the school aspect. I’m sure some of it was supposed to be tounge  and cheek like when they had the episode where archie returned for the Sats and weatherbee was like “you should be held back a year”like all the characters should, not just archie ,I’m sure that was the joke but other times it really does not work at all and I’m rolling my eyes. Sometimes you can’t be meta just to be meta. 

And sometimes I think the shows powers that be wishes it wasn’t a teen drama too, so that we wouldn’t side eye a lot of the plot points that have happened.

Edited March 15, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[ruby24]

The weird thing to me about Alice/FP, is that they really haven't had enough scenes together in general. I mean, I guess they've been a couple this entire season, but we sure haven't seen it. They had that one brief scene in bed together way back, and then the flashback episodes, which wasn't even the same actors. That's about all the Falice content this whole season, which is odd, because they've never even brought up whether Betty or Jughead knows about that relationship or not. Is it a secret? Who knows?

I don't think they need to be a major subplot, but at least check in like once every few episodes with a line between them (hell, even a phone call or something) to let people know whether this is something that's actually still happening or not. It's like they completely forget about it and then bring it up like 12 episodes after it was mentioned.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

The weird thing to me about Alice/FP, is that they really haven't had enough scenes together in general. I mean, I guess they've been a couple this entire season, but we sure haven't seen it. They had that one brief scene in bed together way back, and then the flashback episodes, which wasn't even the same actors. That's about all the Falice content this whole season, which is odd, because they've never even brought up whether Betty or Jughead knows about that relationship or not. Is it a secret? Who knows?

I don't think they need to be a major subplot, but at least check in like once every few episodes with a line between them (hell, even a phone call or something) to let people know whether this is something that's actually still happening or not. It's like they completely forget about it and then bring it up like 12 episodes after it was mentioned.

They have had a few scenes Toft she’s I think and then even things alluding to them being a couple so. I’m unsure if betty or Jughead know. I think betty might? She knows they hooked up a few times last season. And the scene when Alice and FP burned the g and g game book, Bughead walked into the trailer and both FP and Alice were standing there, sometimes I think with certain scenes like that it was implied that FP and Alice had just hooked up, even if we weren’t shown, there was another scene like that this season in episode 2when Bughead walked into the Cooper house and Falice was there. So I just assume they’ve been hooking up this whole time.  Also I’m pretty sure betty is aware there was the scene when FP climes through her bedroom window and said he was looking for Jughead but right after he and Alice shares a hug and Betty had an odd look on her face. I’m pretty sure she knows they were hooking up. Plus some of her reactions this episode when she heard The Jones were moving into her home. Jughead may be unaware but I don’t think betty is.

Im glad it’s over but I’m sure they will start again. Because apparently they are true love.. which really? I finally watch the flashback episode and they just seemed like two teenagers who hooked up sometimes and Alice got pregnant. And the fact that the show now wants to make it into some grand love romance thing really bothers me. I don’t think they were in love and I honestly don’t think they are now.

Edited March 16, 2019 by WhosThatGirl
Added more stuff.

[WhosThatGirl]

Maybe they are trying to write them as in love but my viewing point doesn’t see that and I’m allowed to see it that way.

Also they can’t redeem Alice. She’s been awful for every point of this series. It’s not just the farm this season. She has always treated Betty awful beyond belief. It’s odd people forget this.

One of the parents is for sure going to have to step up and be better. I’m not sure who it will be. I mean we still have Tom Kevin’s sad but considering he doesn’t even notice his son is in a cult doesn’t really bode well. And I think FP is always hit or miss, case in point they change his character every episode lately. Alice.. never. I mean they will probably try but let’s be real rnxtbseason she’s going to do something awful to Betty too. And the Lodges won’t be good as they are our cartoonishly villain parents. I think it might have to be FP and that will be strange because it’s not like he hasn’t been awful at times but because Tom and even Sierra are secondary parent characters we can’t count on them to be our focal good parent.. we still have Archie’s mom but who knows  what they plan to do with her. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[SourK]

On 3/15/2019 at 1:09 AM, Dobian said:

I guess this show isn't even going through the pretense that these kids are in high school anymore.  They're all just hanging out at speakeasies, gang hideouts, and fight clubs now lol.

In fairness to them, they're also trying to turn their school into a fight club, gang hideout, and -- if not a speakeasy -- at least a private lounge.

On 3/15/2019 at 1:21 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

Seriously making this into a teen drama constantly feels like it was a mistake at times, mostly when they try to bring in the school aspect. I’m sure some of it was supposed to be tounge  and cheek like when they had the episode where archie returned for the Sats and weatherbee was like “you should be held back a year”like all the characters should, not just archie ,I’m sure that was the joke but other times it really does not work at all and I’m rolling my eyes. Sometimes you can’t be meta just to be meta.

I get that they wanted the characters the same age they were in the comics, and I'm not sure how old their target audience is, but hearing you say this, I kind of wish they'd all just been in college?

Also, I like that Archie's response to hearing he might have to wait an extra year to graduate is to say, "Never mind," and try to jumpstart his career as a pro boxer instead. If you can't graduate on time, may as well not graduate at all.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 hours ago, SourK said:

In fairness to them, they're also trying to turn their school into a fight club, gang hideout, and -- if not a speakeasy -- at least a private lounge.

I get that they wanted the characters the same age they were in the comics, and I'm not sure how old their target audience is, but hearing you say this, I kind of wish they'd all just been in college?

Also, I like that Archie's response to hearing he might have to wait an extra year to graduate is to say, "Never mind," and try to jumpstart his career as a pro boxer instead. If you can't graduate on time, may as well not graduate at all.

I mean yeah.. college would have been better. Having them in high school is really bothersome and a problem when they try to work it in.

[secnarf]

21 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also they can’t redeem Alice. She’s been awful for every point of this series. It’s not just the farm this season. She has always treated Betty awful beyond belief. It’s odd people forget this.

Unlike Cheryl, who has always been a bit off-kilter, or Polly, who seemed a bit delusional from the get-go, Alice has always been able to put on a front of being a normal, concerned, overprotective mother - so it's easy to default to thinking of that as her 'baseline', rather than an act.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

Unlike Cheryl, who has always been a bit off-kilter, or Polly, who seemed a bit delusional from the get-go, Alice has always been able to put on a front of being a normal, concerned, overprotective mother - so it's easy to default to thinking of that as her 'baseline', rather than an act.

True to the characters and what they see,  as viewers we have evidence that she isn’t at all from the very start of the series and the way she treated and talked to Betty. It wasn’t okay or normal.  Also I could see more redeeming for Cheryl at least in season 2 because it’s how she was raised and they were making her better.. they have completely ruined that this season I agree but Alice I’m sorry is beyond repair for me.

To me people bring up last season as being Alices best season.. which really? No. In the beginning she was still anti serpents until they helped her and then she chose Chic over Betty and didn’t even consider bettys safety and fears. Yup that was such a great Alice season.

It also doesn’t help that the show itself doesn’t acknowledge any of the things they have Alice do and seem to forget it because now in the series as someone else has said they write for just the plot and not any story or development. We go from point Ato point z with no in explanations anymore. It makes no sense. It makes Betty look like a doormat when it comes to her relationship with her mother and even sister at this point. The things Alice has done and is doing this season is beyond awful and the baseline should be eroded at this point in terms of Betty.She lives in a really terrible household and she gets tortured each and every season, every week because of t. It stopped being fun to watch. But whatever.. none of the characters one remember Alice being terrible in this show, so as viewers we shouldn’t either. But it’s bad. I don’t see a baseline for Alice being a normal concerned mother. But again I’m only one viewer. I know Alice is going to be around for a while because I’m aware the show likes the actress and lets be real Falice isn’t over(I wish it was) the show has put some stock into them it seems like and I fully expect there to be some stupid love triangle with FP Gladys and Alice. Again Gladys is awful but so is alice.

And also yeah betty isn’t the only one with terrible parents. He unlike the others, aside from her dad the killer and even then the show is making it seem like he’s the only person who gets her, the Lodges are shown to be bad parents(even when and if veronica stands by them we are shown they are bad), same with Cheryl’s mother. Even Toni got to say her uncle was an awful human being. And Jughead gets to say that about his mom. Betty doesn’t get to say that about either of her parents! 

Edited March 18, 2019 by WhosThatGirl