The Case Against Adnan Syed

[TexasGal]

1 hour ago, lucindabelle said:

I keep falling asleep during this show. I've tried twice to stay awake for the final episode. I think it's partly the Cinema Verite style, the lack of a narrator, the white-on-black captions from time to time.

Does the episode acknowledge the setback that just happened?

Yes - but only as updates in title card fashion at the end.

I wonder if Adnan would have pleaded guilty if the state hadn't been insisting he serve further time as part of the plea deal.

[atlantaloves]

This was the saddest thing I have seen in a long long time. That kid was innocent.  

[Milburn Stone]

5 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

I thought it was strange that the first episode, with the animations and all of Hae's diary excerpts, felt so different than the rest of the series. It almost could have been two entirely different productions -- one about Hae and Adnan and their relationship and her murder, and then an entirely different one about Adnan's conviction and his family and his fight for justice and Rabia.  Every time they mentioned Hae after the first ep kind of felt like a throw-away.

It was almost like they made the first episode as a pilot, and HBO said, "We like it, but lose the animations."

In fact, my guess is that it was exactly that.

[Joan van Snark]

I found this show confusing and the way the evidence was presented was not that coherent.  Also thought they spent a lot of time on crazy theories that really have no factual evidence to support.  Based on everything I saw I don't see any other logical explanation except that Adnan did it.  Maybe Jay changed his story, maybe the police were unethical and got Jay to state things in a way to make their case stronger because there wasn't a lot of physical evidence---but my gut feeling is Adnan did it.  Its gone too far for him to admit it now.  I feel sorry for his mother, she didnt deserve for her life to unravel like this.  It may be true that there was reasonable doubt and he shouldn't have been convicted, but tell me who did it if not Adnan?  

[lucindabelle]

26 minutes ago, Joan van Snark said:

I found this show confusing and the way the evidence was presented was not that coherent.  Also thought they spent a lot of time on crazy theories that really have no factual evidence to support.  Based on everything I saw I don't see any other logical explanation except that Adnan did it.  Maybe Jay changed his story, maybe the police were unethical and got Jay to state things in a way to make their case stronger because there wasn't a lot of physical evidence---but my gut feeling is Adnan did it.  Its gone too far for him to admit it now.  I feel sorry for his mother, she didnt deserve for her life to unravel like this.  It may be true that there was reasonable doubt and he shouldn't have been convicted, but tell me who did it if not Adnan?  

Someone of whom Jay is afraid.

Adnan isn't guilty because of your gut feeling or "if not him, who." It's not how the law or just common sense work.

[LakeGal]

I had heard of this case.  But I did not listen to the podcast about it.  I expected I would watch this and agree that Adnan is innocent and should not be in jail.  But I was confused and frankly a bit bored by the HBO series.  I do not have a strong feeling that Adnan is innocent.  I also don't know enough to say he is guilty or who did it.  But I did expect to have a clearer impression of the case.  I think HBO failed with this one.    

[TexasGal]

30 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

I had heard of this case.  But I did not listen to the podcast about it.  I expected I would watch this and agree that Adnan is innocent and should not be in jail.  But I was confused and frankly a bit bored by the HBO series.  I do not have a strong feeling that Adnan is innocent.  I also don't know enough to say he is guilty or who did it.  But I did expect to have a clearer impression of the case.  I think HBO failed with this one.    

I was wondering as I watched whether someone who hadn't listened to Serial would be able to follow what was going on and who everyone was.  I listened to it when it was originally released and even I had to really think to remember some of the pertinent information. 

Serial also didn't leave you strongly feeling like Adnan is definitely innocent, but it did leave you strongly feeling like the police did not thoroughly investigate the case AND that what was presented in court should not have been enough to convict him if he had had effective defense counsel.  

[Glory]

I just feel so bad. I wish he had taken the deal. 

Every time Rabia or Yusuf said that they were feeling positive or sure he'd be home soon I just wanted to cry.

I don't think he did it and I'm just so mad that he's been in jail for so long. He's only a couple years older than me and when I think of how much life he missed I get so sad. 

[teddysmom]

On 4/2/2019 at 3:01 PM, atlantaloves said:

This was the saddest thing I have seen in a long long time. That kid was innocent.  

It took me 3 tries to get thru this episode, it was making me so sad. For the prosecutor & cops to say "we don't have to test DNA evidence" What in the fucking fuck does that even mean?  Yes it is your burden to prove guilt.

You got a completely unreliable witness and couldn't even read the fax cover sheet from the phone company that clearly says, "incoming call pings should not be considered reliable".  THAT WAS YOUR ONLY EVIDENCE AND IT WAS BULLSHIT

How do they say with a straight face "we don't care what your investigators came up with, he's staying in jail". 

When Adnan's mother was telling Rabia she had leukemia, I couldn't take it. That poor woman. 

[lianau]

Probably the most comprehensive case material collection .

[Neurochick]

I have always felt that there was enough doubt in the case that Adnan Syed should get a new trial.  The only reason they even looked at Adnan was because of a phone call.

However, in this country, once the police and the state decide that you're guilty, that's it, whether you're guilty or not.  

Here's something else that bugs me, if Adnan got a new trial and was found not guilty, can you imagine the lawsuits?  How much money the county would have to pay Adnan and his family?  I mean look at the Central Park Five case in NYC.  Five young men were sent to prison for basically zero evidence, just because the city wanted to hang someone for the crime and in the end the city wound up having to pay.

[biakbiak]

42 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

How much money the county would have to pay Adnan and his family?  I

This is why I am sort of shocked that they didn’t offer him an Alford plea which would have prevented him suing because it’s technically a guilt plea even though he asserts his innocence. He has served almost 20 years for the murder which is more than a lot of murders do. It’s what the West Memphis 3 did so the prosecution could still save face that they got a guilty plea and not be worried about civil suits but allow them to be released without a new trial. 

[TattleTeeny]

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 It may be true that there was reasonable doubt and he shouldn't have been convicted, but tell me who did it if not Adnan?  

It could be any number of people outside of the few possibilities we were shown; this isn't the kind of situation where you have to pick the "best" of what's in front of you, like finding a parking spot. You're not supposed to "pick" anyone if the evidence isn't there. And it's a job for the cops to find out--which they chose not to do. Also, it's not up to the defense to answer "if not Adnan, then who?" (not that YOU implied it was the defense's job. Again, it's the cops' job).

Quote

This is why I am sort of shocked that they didn’t offer him an Alford plea which would have prevented him suing because it’s technically a guilt plea even though he asserts his innocence. He has served almost 20 years for the murder which is more than a lot of murders do. It’s what the West Memphis 3 did so the prosecution could still save face that they got a guilty plea and not be worried about civil suits but allow them to be released without a new trial. 

I am so glad the WM3 are out (I got to go to a screening of West of Memphis and a Q&A with Damien!), but man, it would have been fascinating to see a new trial on that nonsense!

Edited April 20, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[TattleTeeny]

I thought it was pretty clear that the animation was a way (the only way, really, with limited footage of her and little if any participation by her family--the latter of which is completely understandable) to show Hae as a person and not lose her in her own story, which happens a lot in various true crime media. For example, more often than not, I'd guess, people know cases by way of the (alleged) perpetrator's name as opposed to the victims' names. Hae's not here, obviously, and maybe the makers of this thought she should be represented somehow in a way that was more than the same two or three photos and one video clip. Maybe it's cheesy but it was an attempt at personification, rather than a plot point for a bigger story.

Edited April 21, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[Glory]

Just in case you guys need more podcasts in your life, True Crime Obsessed has done a 4 part podcast on this docu-series. Those two make me laugh so hard. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Just in case you guys need more podcasts in your life, True Crime Obsessed has done a 4 part podcast on this docu-series. Those two make me laugh so hard. 

I love True Crime Obsessed (haha, the "garbage bell"!)--it's my favorite "nonserious" true-crime podcast since the Talking Crime one called it quits. If you haven't listened to that one, I highly suggest it. It's pretty similar: two friends--one's a guy, the other a girl (Margot Leitman; I cannot remember the guy's name)--and they talk about the documentaries and TV shows as opposed to the crimes in and of themselves, and they're funny. And Margot's book, Gawky: Tales of An Extra Long Awkward Phase, is pretty good--though I may be biased as a fellow Jersey girl who grew up in the '80s).

A question: when you guys decide to try a crime podcast that has been around for a while and already has a ton of episodes about all different cases, but is new to you, how do you start? I tend to pick a case I already know a lot about (JonBenet or Charles Manson, usually) as a way to gauge whether I like the approach and whether the host(s) know their stuff (of course, if the new-to-me podcast is covering only one case, I start at the beginning). There are just so many podcasts to choose from that time (and phone storage) causes me to pick and choose.

[ghoulina]

I'm neurotic and have to start at the very beginning. 

[TattleTeeny]

Even if it's not a serial kind of thing, but instead unrelated cases?

[Glory]

On 4/27/2019 at 8:56 AM, TattleTeeny said:

A question: when you guys decide to try a crime podcast that has been around for a while and already has a ton of episodes about all different cases, but is new to you, how do you start? I tend to pick a case I already know a lot about (JonBenet or Charles Manson, usually) as a way to gauge whether I like the approach and whether the host(s) know their stuff (of course, if the new-to-me podcast is covering only one case, I start at the beginning). There are just so many podcasts to choose from that time (and phone storage) causes me to pick and choose.

Yup! This is what I do. I found TCO because of the "Abducted in Plain Sight" documentary and just kind of hop around to whatever episode interests me at the time. 

[Bunsout4chica]

Does anyone else have the theory that jay and possibly Jen killed Hae. Everyone keeps asking how would jay know all of this? Why would he implicate himself of it weren’t true? But if Jay had killed Hae then a lot of those questions will automatically be answered. So January 13th is Stephanie’s birthday Anad got her a gift and her own boyfriend (Jay) didn’t so he (just trying to be a good friend) uses his free period to help/ make sure he gets her a gift because as she had said to Adnan she really hopes her boyfriend got her something, but she feels like he didn’t. Adnan goes to Jay’s house and lends him,  his car then gets dropped back off for school. Then they say Hae had originally agreed to give Adnan a ride after to school but something mysteriously takes priority over that and a lot of speculation says someone who wasn’t at school must have paged her and agreed to meet up with her after school before she picked up her niece. Jay very well could have paged her he didn’t go to school there anymore and he could have proposed to her that he needed help with Stephanie's gift or something along those lines because Hae and Stephanie were friends. What’s the motive? It has been said a lot through Serial that Adnan and Stephanie were very close and even dated at the end of 8th grade, but also in middle school Stephanie and Jay dated. Obviously they broke up when Adnan and Stephanie dated at the end of 8th grade and got back together in high school up to the times in question. It is also said that Adnan and Stephanie were very flirty (until him and Hae got together I’m guessing) but it’s said she would give him kisses, sit on his lap,and put her arms around him. It’s never clarified if this was during the time that her and Jay were currently together. Then there is also the prom court which happened to be Adnan and Stephanie. This could have been something that made Jay fester inside because all this time that Adnan and Stephanie have been such close and good friends which is also the time Stephanie and Jay have been dating and they never close for that many years they’re still casual acquaintances. I think he was jealous of Adnan. Mr. cool, handsome, popular, success,  the golden boy who his girlfriend is a little too close with while he is the loner, outcast kid who doesn’t fit in and sells drugs kind of a outsider to the group looking in with his only real connection to these people being Stephanie because none of his friends are friends with them and vice versa. Jen openly says she didn't even like Hae and that she thought she was dittsy and stuck up and then lied to claim she didn’t even know who she was having graduated the year before. So after Adnan and Hae broke up, and Adnan was now single maybe he was worried about Stephanie leaving him for Adnan people have said that her parents didn’t approve of Jay but they liked Adnan maybe Stephanie wanted to get with Adnan after they danced breifly at prom but he was with Hae now and then when they broke up it was a possibility so Jay stepped in to make sure he didn’t lose Stephanie. It was said how important she was to Jay that she was his only good thing and he would do anything not to lose her. So maybe that was killing Hae, taking someone that Adnan truly loved and then framing him for her murder.It was probably a lot easier then he expected he just changed some facts around that implicated himself to Adnan and the cops just believed and jumped on the theory and altered it till it backed a believable story that casted enough reasonable doubt on Adnan.  And I think Jen would have helped with this Jen and Jay seem to be the two most bizarre people in this case that consistently lie and fail to make sense, they both seem like they’re covering for someone possibly each other also, they both are a huge part of the others story they are each other’s alibi at one point claiming to be at Stephanies but later that shows to be false because Stephanie wasn’t even home like they claimed. Everything the Jay claims Adnan did that just doesn’t make sense would make sense if it was Jen and it would also make sense why the police investigated/ interiagated both Jen and jay first and jay and Jen both came forward first about the murder they have been documented to being together all through out the day that Hae was murder even during undisclosed time. They both are lying, they both we’re together, they were best friends, they both were kinda shady, and jay felt like he could come to Jen about this and she didn’t go to the cops and even helped drive him to get rid of evidence and still seemed like she was holding back evidence during her interrogation playing dumb almost.When this was said about about Jay and Adnan, “why would Jay help Adnan they weren’t even good friends?” it didn’t make sense but when it’s Jay and Jen it makes more sense and Adana is the perfect victim he is Muslim which a lot people have such harsh stereo types about, also the prosecutor brings up a similar case about another boy who is muslim implicating that Adnan might try to flee stating that there is a ongoing problem with Muslim people fleeing back to their country to avoid conviction which simply was a lie. Which she had to redact and apologize for. He’s her ex boyfriend who is charming and seemingly a perfect kid. Jay didn’t go to school with them, Jay wasn’t friends with them, Jay doesn’t have a alibi, he knew what happened to her and where it happened, he knew where her car was, he had the phone, and the shovels,he’s constantly lying and covering up for someone else that’s not Adnan that’s why the story doesn’t make sense think about it. Also years later neither of them want to talk about it except for one brief short interview. Another thing is when Jen came to give her official on the record statement she said she told Jay she was coming to tell the cops and he said just don’t say anything to incriminate her send them to him. If Jen was such a good friend and possibly had feelings for Jay enough to be a accomplice to murder, he probably would risk incriminating himself for her and in the end neither rod the two people who knew the most about this, had the most answers and even aided and abetted to the crime got any jail or prison time walked away Scott free. The perfectly imperfect crime, that they got away with.