S01.E07: I Saw the Sign

[tessaray]

Air date: March 5, 2019

Quote

After uncovering a devastating secret about Rosa's death, Liz works to protect herself and those around her. After uncovering a devastating secret about Rosa's death, Liz takes matters into her own hands to protect herself and those around her. However, her plans are sidelined after a day with Mimi, Maria and Alex leads to a new revelation about Rosa. Elsewhere, Max takes aim at Wyatt; Cameron decides whether she's going to help Sgt. Manes.

[Whodunnit]

Noah: So, was it the booze?

Max, thinking. Booze, murder. Tomayto, tomahto.

Max:  Something like that.

[Guest]

At the end of this, Max basically told Liz to continue making a weapon to use against him (and that is going to go badly when it ends up in the wrong hands) because if it comes down to her or Isobel, he's willing to sacrifice Liz to protect Isobel.

Oh, true and destined love.  I got it show, this is not going to go any better for the Dreamer ship than the original RoswellOG.

Now that my teenager brain has recovered from nostalgia induced delusion and has been sent packing back to the 90s, I'm trying to figure out what part of Max is a creepy, pining, stalker convinced me that Max and Liz were meant to be this time around despite the lies and the friend with benefits.

At this point, I'm basically to the same point I got to last time.  I just want to see a bunch of episodes where Alex, Maria, and Liz hang out.

[phoenics]

Paul Wesley did that.  What a great episode.

I'm still processing, but even if Isobel wasn't mind controlled and her killing the girls was more of a dissociative personality - I still believe something was controlling Wyatt and I haven't ruled out Grant Green still (I don't believe he's dead)...  I was totally right that Wyatt was being mindcontrolled.

Given Maria's mom's comments about touching alien stuff and drawing bad stuff into you... I wonder if something like that is going on too - some kind of alien entity that can body jump and possess and control people?

Speaking of Maria - the scenes with her mom were soooo good... and you felt her pain... gosh finally!  And that scene with her breaking down with Michael... wow.

I loved this episode.

Max finally showing us who he is and living up to OGMax with that selfless gesture to Liz at the end... well done.

Liz is better than me though - I wouldv'e punched Isobel in the beginning, lol.

And kudos to Alex for calling Liz out for being a crappy friend.

And can we have Michael third person himself in every episode?

Edited March 6, 2019 by phoenics

[phoenics]

Just now, ParadoxLost said:

At the end of this, Max basically told Liz to continue making a weapon to use against him (and that is going to go badly when it ends up in the wrong hands) because if it comes down to her or Isobel, he's willing to sacrifice Liz to protect Isobel.

Oh, true and destined love.  I got it show, this is not going to go any better for the Dreamer ship than the original RoswellOG.

Now that my teenager brain has recovered from nostalgia induced delusion and has been sent packing back to the 90s, I'm trying to figure out what part of Max is a creepy, pining, stalker convinced me that Max and Liz were meant to be this time around despite the lies and the friend with benefits.

At this point, I'm basically to the same point I got to last time.  I just want to see a bunch of episodes where Alex, Maria, and Liz hang out.

Max telling Liz she was right and to encourage her to continue working on the serum WAS him choosing Liz over Isobel or even himself.

I read that scene very differently than you did.  I loved it.  And honestly I totally understand what Max meant - when you have to choose between family and a love, sometimes that's not an easy choice to make... so Max was empowering Liz to make the choice herself.  That in itself was powerful - at least to me.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I'm still processing, but even if Isobel wasn't mind controlled and her killing the girls was more of a dissociative personality - I still believe something was controlling Wyatt and I haven't ruled out Grant Green still (I don't believe he's dead)...

Given Maria's mom's comments about touching alien stuff and drawing bad stuff into you... I wonder if something like that is going on too - some kind of alien entity that can body jump and possess and control people?

Seems extremely likely that Wyatt was being controlled.  I'm wondering if Maria's Mom illness is due to another generation of alien mucking around in her mind.  

At first I took the comment about Alex having darkness like his father to mean that Michael left some kind of alien stuff in his aura.  But its more likely to be the alien artifact in Jim's bunker.  I think I need to listen to the Independence Day stuff because she was talking about a bunker that segued into something Independence Day like.

[phoenics]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Seems extremely likely that Wyatt was being controlled.  I'm wondering if Maria's Mom illness is due to another generation of alien mucking around in her mind.  

At first I took the comment about Alex having darkness like his father to mean that Michael left some kind of alien stuff in his aura.  But its more likely to be the alien artifact in Jim's bunker.  I think I need to listen to the Independence Day stuff because she was talking about a bunker that segued into something Independence Day like.

She did talk about the bunker!!! You're right.  So she knew about that - was Jim hiding an alien there?

Oh - and also - Blackout!Isobel must have told Rosa she was an alien and when Rosa freaked out, she killed her.  I think she really did kill those girls as a "prize" for Rosa and really freaked Rosa out - and then killed her when she found out Rosa told Jim Valenti.

Edited March 6, 2019 by phoenics

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Max telling Liz she was right and to encourage her to continue working on the serum WAS him choosing Liz over Isobel or even himself.

I read that scene very differently than you did.  I loved it.  And honestly I totally understand what Max meant - when you have to choose between family and a love, sometimes that's not an easy choice to make... so Max was empowering Liz to make the choice herself.  That in itself was powerful - at least to me.

I got that meaning too.  I believe your interpretation is what they were going for.  But frankly, I'm not buying into it.  Or maybe I just don't like this Max.  I  don't buy that he actually loves Liz.  Obsessed with the idea of loving Liz, but he doesn't love her.  They aren't the destined OTP I kind of set myself to believe they were because my OGRoswell teenage brain was running the show.

I was put off that his reaction to Liz being upset over what she now knows about Rosa's death to be to hook up with his partner again.  I know that they aren't in a relationship and it hasn't bothered me until now, but boy it did this episode.  I don't like that Max is that guy and it lessens whatever he feels for Liz in my eyes.  I wondered if Max and Liz were together and they got into a fight, would he cheat?

And I do get that he would choose his family, even understand it.  That it would be hard for him and give hime some credit for encouraging Liz to protect herself against them.  But that doesn't change that he is fully admitting that he will choose Isobel and Michael over Liz.  And that says a lot about Max.  And maybe my inner teenager would have squeed over the idea that Max is so loyal to his family that he'd do anything even murder and cover ups, even knowing what it cost his love last time.  But my adult brain is fully irritated that Max is not a person with basic decency.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I really liked the Michael and Maria scene at the end.  So very well done.  I'd love to watch an episode of them drinking and sharing stories.

So Liz creates a poison and we just know that it will fall into the wrong hands- probably Alex's Dad. 

Maybe humans can't/shouldn't touch a piece of the alien ship without going a bit mad- ie, Alex's aura going dark, Jesse Manes going even more mean, and maybe Maria's Mother touched one, and that's why she's in such a state.

I'm still calling alien possession of some kind for Isobel, Wyatt etc.

[shapeshifter]

I really liked the cinematography in the desert seance scene—although I suspect it was mostly just the luck of a confluence of weather conditions and light.

Momma Mimi added a lot to the story, but with my own mother wasting away in a so-called "assisted living" facility because my sister has power of attorney—well, I just didn't know whether to be angry at the writers or the character of Maria. But, to be honest, in my mom's current condition she is going to be miserable anywhere, and maybe Maria's mom will like her assisted living facility—however, IRL, I don't think she could afford most places like that.

Anyway, IMO, this was a better written episode.

And, yes, Wyatt's possessed. If he gets deposessed (maybe with Liz's anti-acetone injection) will he join Team Pod Squad and also stop being a racist? Or is that asking too much?

[phoenics]

20 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

And I do get that he would choose his family, even understand it.  That it would be hard for him and give hime some credit for encouraging Liz to protect herself against them.  But that doesn't change that he is fully admitting that he will choose Isobel and Michael over Liz.  And that says a lot about Max.  

Max's exact words were:  "If ever I cannot protect both you and Isobel at the same time, you should be able to protect yourself."

That's not the same as him saying he would choose Isobel over Liz.  That's not what he was saying at all.  Just that if he's in a caught in the middle situation, Liz shouldn't have to rely upon him choosing rock or hard place.  She should be empowered to protect herself.

I found that empowering.  I don't think it meant Max would always choose Isobel.  In fact, him pushing Liz to work on the serum really was him choosing Liz in that moment.  And I'm pretty sure that if it came down to Isobel attacking Liz, Max would put her down.

[phoenics]

14 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And, yes, Wyatt's possessed. If he gets deposessed (maybe with Liz's anti-acetone injection) will he join Team Pod Squad and also stop being a racist? Or is that asking too much?

Given that after the mind control was over and he was in the hospital bed, he went right back to his racism, I'm gonna say no.  He's still a racist and can choke for all I care.

But I am patting myself on the back for knowing Wyatt was being mind controlled.  Money's still on Grant Green somehow being behind this.

Edited March 6, 2019 by phoenics

[Callaphera]

Third Eye Blind's Jumper was already an overwrought emo song but that was possibly one of the worst renditions of it I've ever heard. 

I do not, for one second, believe that Liz was pretending to be Rosa for Maria's mom's benefit. She was totally hoping for some information and everyone else was all heart eyes and "Isn't it sweet that she's pretending to be her dead sister even though it hurts her" but really, Liz did that for herself. 

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And, yes, Wyatt's possessed. If he gets deposessed (maybe with Liz's anti-acetone injection) will he join Team Pod Squad and also stop being a racist? Or is that asking too much?

Yes. He was a racist before he was "possessed". That shouldn't be something that can just be cleaned up with Liz's Magic Anti-Alien Serum. 

[phoenics]

4 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

I do not, for one second, believe that Liz was pretending to be Rosa for Maria's mom's benefit. She was totally hoping for some information and everyone else was all heart eyes and "Isn't it sweet that she's pretending to be her dead sister even though it hurts her" but really, Liz did that for herself. 

I actually believe it was a combination of both.  I think initially Liz was doing that for Maria's mom, but somehow she also realized it was a bit cathartic.  And later on, when she realized Maria's mom was speaking some alien truths, she dug in.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Max's exact words were:  "If ever I cannot protect both you and Isobel at the same time, you should be able to protect yourself."

That's not the same as him saying he would choose Isobel over Liz.  That's not what he was saying at all.  Just that if he's in a caught in the middle situation, Liz shouldn't have to rely upon him choosing rock or hard place.  She should be empowered to protect herself.

I found that empowering.  I don't think it meant Max would always choose Isobel.  In fact, him pushing Liz to work on the serum really was him choosing Liz in that moment.  And I'm pretty sure that if it came down to Isobel attacking Liz, Max would put her down.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.  There was definitely an undercurrent of Max seeing him, Michael, and Isobel as a unit and he will always choose to protect them and Liz is on the outside.  He might not go as far as letting Isobel murder Liz.  But there was a definite undercurrent of if they were both hanging off a cliff, Max would pull Isobel to safety first.  If Isobel killed someone Liz loved, Max would cover it up again.  And so on. 

I do think that at some point Max will in fact put Liz first ahead of Isobel.  But I don't know that I'll care at that point.  They piled on too much in short order that makes me not care about them being a couple.  

Speaking of,  I didn't care for Michael / Maria the first time around.  This time around I'm really disappointed that this duo is likely going nowhere.

[phoenics]

9 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.  There was definitely an undercurrent of Max seeing him, Michael, and Isobel as a unit and he will always choose to protect them and Liz is on the outside.  He might not go as far as letting Isobel murder Liz.  But there was a definite undercurrent of if they were both hanging off a cliff, Max would pull Isobel to safety first.  If Isobel killed someone Liz loved, Max would cover it up again.  And so on. 

I do think that at some point Max will in fact put Liz first ahead of Isobel.  But I don't know that I'll care at that point.  They piled on too much in short order that makes me not care about them being a couple.  

I agree - we will have to agree to disagree.  I felt the scene was nearly the opposite - in that while Max feels he has to protect his family, he was also trying to protect Liz.  As he said, if he was ever unable to protect both of them at once... he wanted Liz covered.  But yeah - agree to disagree.

For the record - I don't blame a brother for not wanting to choose over his family.  Especially given how little Liz trusts him at this point.

But I get your pain over not getting the soul-mate-ish story like in the OG story.  I had been craving that kind of story too - but I like this version too.  It's making me rethink whether or not such an instant fall in love story is even realistic - even with aliens, lol.  From a fantasy romance standpoint it makes sense, but this show is trying very hard to ground itself in some kind of present reality and also grown up reality.  Maybe when I first saw OGRoswell, that kind of OGMax-Liz insta-love that was nearly unwavering instantly with Liz trusting Max instantly that the only way the show could add drama was with a horrible plotline and character in Tess - maybe that felt real.  And cosmic.

But I feel like this show is trying to be a future fanfic of that - and showing that in reality - that kind of cosmic love maybe can't be trusted.  Maybe it has to be earned.  Maybe Max and Liz have to go through the ugly stuff to finally get to the end and know - really know - that they are it for one another.

Realistically it makes sense that Liz would be scared and apprehensive about Max - especially given what happened with Isobel.  And *maybe* when she was younger and more innocent and she hadn't been messed with by Isobel, she WOULD just be falling into Max's arms.  But in this case, it's good that she didn't - because wow would she be jaded now after finding out about Isobel, lol.

Maybe I'm not saying this well, but since I will always have OGMax+Liz, I'm willing to give nuMax/Liz time to find their footing and get to that special place.  

I do wonder if the writers will ever "fix" whatever Isobel did to Liz - will that have any impact on the walls Liz built up?  Will that make her remember how she felt about Max?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, phoenics said:

But I get your pain over not getting the soul-mate-ish story like in the OG story.  I had been craving that kind of story too - but I like this version too.  It's making me rethink whether or not such an instant fall in love story is even realistic - even with aliens, lol.  From a fantasy romance standpoint it makes sense, but this show is trying very hard to ground itself in some kind of present reality and also grown up reality.  Maybe when I first saw OGRoswell, that kind of OGMax-Liz insta-love that was nearly unwavering instantly with Liz trusting Max instantly that the only way the show could add drama was with a horrible plotline and character in Tess - maybe that felt real.  And cosmic.

But I feel like this show is trying to be a future fanfic of that - and showing that in reality - that kind of cosmic love maybe can't be trusted.  Maybe it has to be earned.  Maybe Max and Liz have to go through the ugly stuff to finally get to the end and know - really know - that they are it for one another.

Realistically it makes sense that Liz would be scared and apprehensive about Max - especially given what happened with Isobel.  And *maybe* when she was younger and more innocent and she hadn't been messed with by Isobel, she WOULD just be falling into Max's arms.  But in this case, it's good that she didn't - because wow would she be jaded now after finding out about Isobel, lol.

Maybe I'm not saying this well, but since I will always have OGMax+Liz, I'm willing to give nuMax/Liz time to find their footing and get to that special place.  

See this I agree with and I hope its what they are trying to do and planning to do.  My issue is that I think they (the writers) lost their way somewhere in the middle episodes.  Max has been selling the cosmic, destined, desperate for true love too well.  To the point that I don't really trust that they are going to ground it in reality and earn whatever relationship develops.

I just expect that someone who covers up three murders would act differently than Max has when one of the deceased sister returns to town.  And my problem with Max arises more from prior episodes than this one.  You know, the ones where everyone was calling him a stalkery creeper.   I wish they had left all the "I haven't been happy for a decade" and "I didn't deserve a goodbye" stuff on the cutting room floor and let them start fresh with no puppy love baggage.  They can have the Rosa cover up baggage but that he did that while supposedly desperately in love with Liz is doing Max no favors from a character standpoint.  I don't get him at all.

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

I actually believe it was a combination of both.  I think initially Liz was doing that for Maria's mom, but somehow she also realized it was a bit cathartic.  And later on, when she realized Maria's mom was speaking some alien truths, she dug in.

I can accept that a little more than Liz swirling some liquid in a beaker while like she's at a wine tasting and magically having an Anti-Alien Serum at the 47 minute mark of the show. 

I wonder if she made it back to the care home to meet Maria or not, the show wasn't too clear on that and for some reason, that bugs me. I just want Liz to be a good friend to someone for once. 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

 There was definitely an undercurrent of Max seeing him, Michael, and Isobel as a unit and he will always choose to protect them and Liz is on the outside.  He might not go as far as letting Isobel murder Liz.  But there was a definite undercurrent of if they were both hanging off a cliff, Max would pull Isobel to safety first.  If Isobel killed someone Liz loved, Max would cover it up again.  And so on. 

I do think that at some point Max will in fact put Liz first ahead of Isobel.  But I don't know that I'll care at that point.  They piled on too much in short order that makes me not care about them being a couple.  

Speaking of,  I didn't care for Michael / Maria the first time around.  This time around I'm really disappointed that this duo is likely going nowhere.

While reading this part of this post, it suddenly occurred to me that maybe the writers decided to take the OG Roswell disfunctionality of the Michael-Maria relationship and remake the Max-Liz relationship in that image. Ugh.

4 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

. . .  I wish they had left all the "I haven't been happy for a decade" and "I didn't deserve a goodbye" stuff on the cutting room floor and let them start fresh with no puppy love baggage.  They can have the Rosa cover up baggage but that he did that while supposedly desperately in love with Liz is doing Max no favors from a character standpoint.  I don't get him at all.

Or at least they should have toned down the torch Max was carrying for Liz to a more reasonable glow.

3 hours ago, izzybee said:

 stunning landscapeshots

More stunning landscape shots could go a long way to lulling us into going along with the unbelieveable narrative.

Still, this episode seemed to make steps toward giving the characters believable motivations. I hope they continue to build on that.

[Grace19]

I came to the realization that the dynamic between Max, Michael and Isabelle is my favourite part of the show. This is surprising to me because when the show started, they felt more like strangers to me. What Max and Michael did to protect Isabelle was despicable, but I love that they protect each other and know that they are all they have. 

I still ship Max/Liz, but if the show drops them I won't really care. I had no problem with the last scene between Max and Liz, that was actually a redeeming scene for Max. He acknowledged that Isabelle and Michael meant everything to him, but he still gave Liz the power to destroy them if they get too dangerous, that was selfless to me. And I don't get this idea that a man must love his girlfriend more than his family, in my experience, most of the time, family outlasts romantic relationships. So Max can love Liz without loving Isabelle and Michael any less.

I love that we finally got an episode focused on my favourite character, Maria. I was worried that it wouldn't really be about her, but I'm pleasantly surprised that we got her POV and it wasn't used to service other characters. I also love that the story was connected to the aliens. I'm calling it, one of Maria's ancestors might be an alien. I don't believe their powers come from touching an artifact, it has to be deeper than that. 

Yea, Michael and Maria has insane chemistry even without talking. Banter or no banter, they still got it.

[kj4ever]

I think it's a bad sign that I was rooting for Cam to turn over Max.

Liz has been portrayed as a Grade A asshole, but if she ever forgives Max, Isobel, and Michael for what they did to her sister she is a freakin' moron on top of it.  Are we also to believe that a 28 year old scientist could come up with a magic shot in like a week?

I'm to the point now that I really don't care what happened to Rosa.  I think this might be a series that you binge watch when you are bored so that you just take away the good things.  I know the OG Roswell was like that after season one, and if I had watched it in real time I never would have made it through the whole series.

The one huge plot hole that I can't hand wave or get over:  All these people hate Liz and her Father because Rosa allegedly killed these girls while she was messed up.  Why don't they report her Dad to ICE?  It bugged me the first part of this season, but when Isobel's husband pointed out the fact that Max could be called on special treatment for not reporting him I could ignore it no longer.

[Cristofle]

I liked most of the characters this episode, which was nice. 

I feel a little less sorry for Cam now, because Max is more or less being honest with her and she's no longer claiming she wants more from him. Also, I think Max is telling the truth about the tattoo, so she gave herself a reason to turn him in by deciding he was lying to her, but I don't necessarily think he is.

Regardless of what Carina says, the fact that Isobel's blackouts sound a lot like Wyatt's and the symbol he drew is the same one around Isobel when she woke up in the desert still makes me think she's being controlled.

Nice to learn more about Maria. 

[peachmangosteen]

Finally, a Maria episode! Loved everything with her, especially the end scene with Michael. Dammit, I didn't wanna like them because obviously they're not going there, but I can't help myself.

1 hour ago, Grace19 said:

I came to the realization that the dynamic between Max, Michael and Isabelle is my favourite part of the show. This is surprising to me because when the show started, they felt more like strangers to me. What Max and Michael did to protect Isabelle was despicable, but I love that they protect each other and know that they are all they have. 

This, just all of this. They are finally gelling and I'm loving it.

I still like this version of Liz/Max more than the original one, but I also don't really care one way or the other about them lol.

I am so over Cameron. She just bores me. I am slightly more interested in her now though since she told Manes to look into Max.

I continue to just enjoy the hell outta this show. I wasn't even gonna watch because I just didn't think I'd be that into it, but I am so glad I decided to tune in. I really hope it doesn't get cancelled.

[KittenPokerCheater]

2 hours ago, Grace19 said:

Yea, Michael and Maria has insane chemistry even without talking. Banter or no banter, they still got it.

Yeah, that was a great scene.

I wonder if Carina writes scenes that get cut for time or something, because I always get the feeling that we're missing bits of character story/development.

I also realized we haven't had a Michael/Alex scene in a few episodes.

It was great to see more of Maria, and to learn about her mother.

Cameron is helping Manes for her sister.   How long until Max finds out, and I wonder if Cameron will stick around after this season.

[Cristofle]

In the OG show, I was all about the complicated relationship with the Pod Squad, so I'm glad we're seeing more of their relationships in the past couple episodes, particularly more of the relationship between Max and Michael.

[ellieart]

7 hours ago, Grace19 said:

I love that we finally got an episode focused on my favourite character, Maria. I was worried that it wouldn't really be about her, but I'm pleasantly surprised that we got her POV and it wasn't used to service other characters. I also love that the story was connected to the aliens. 

See and I saw the opposite.  I loved that we got more focus on Maria and while it was a bit about her own struggles, the overall story of it was still to service other characters.  It still became all about Liz and her quest for Rosa, and now we have little seeds being sown about Alex's darkness.  Neither of these things propel Maria forward.  It just leaves me disappointed yet again in how bad their storytelling is, especially for the only character I like on this show.

Also, Max's move at the end of the episode did nothing to redeem him to me.  He's still an actual dumpster person.  

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, ellieart said:

[Max]'s still an actual dumpster person.  

It doesn't keep me from liking him, but he really is a dumpster person. I love that description lol.

[tennisgurl]

We finally get a Maria episode, and her mom is Lena from The Fosters! Awesome! Nice to actually get some back story for her, and some of her actual perspective! Its so sad to see what is happening with her mother, its so awful to see someone you love mentally deteriorating like that, especially so young. I totally think that there is some kind of alien reason for her mental problems, like she was exposed to some alien death ray or an evil alien is leaving stuff around the town that messed people up, and thats why she is so obsessed with aliens. 

So is Alex's dad such an asshole and so obsessed with aliens because he got some kind of alien gook on him or something? Is that why everyone in this town is so weird, because they were exposed to alien radiation or something? Wow, the pod tri are the gift that keep on giving! I mean, they certainly have no clue thats what is causing it, but still. If its them anyway, and not some other alien thing. Any human who touches the alien stuff goes mad, or goes dark? Hope Alex comes out alright at least.

Max saying how he made a call to save Isabelle is understandable and probably something people can relate to on some level, doing something awful to protect their family (although I like to think most people/aliens wouldn't go that far) but he still sucks for doing such an awful thing to someone he supposedly cared about, but Rosa and Liz. I still like Max, but its really hard to get past this one, especially on a romance show like this.

Maria and Michael banter! They still got it, baby! And I admit to cheering when Alex came and told Liz she was being a bad friend to Maria, especially as its implied that she knows whats going on with her mom. I mean, I fully get why Liz is so upset, she has every right to not want to ever talk to any of them again, and she is right to be afraid that Isabel might do something like this again, but creating something to suck their powers seems to be a pretty intense reaction. Yeah she realized she was going too far quickly, but we all know thats ending up in the hands of the bad guys by seasons end. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Grace19]

14 hours ago, ellieart said:

See and I saw the opposite.  I loved that we got more focus on Maria and while it was a bit about her own struggles, the overall story of it was still to service other characters.  It still became all about Liz and her quest for Rosa, and now we have little seeds being sown about Alex's darkness.  Neither of these things propel Maria forward.  It just leaves me disappointed yet again in how bad their storytelling is, especially for the only character I like on this show.

Also, Max's move at the end of the episode did nothing to redeem him to me.  He's still an actual dumpster person.  

Yea, it was about Liz, but I believe this episode is also a great setup for Maria's arc. I believe  the source of Maria's powers will get minor focus the rest of the season.

[kirkola]

On 3/6/2019 at 8:00 AM, Cristofle said:

I liked most of the characters this episode, which was nice. 

I feel a little less sorry for Cam now, because Max is more or less being honest with her and she's no longer claiming she wants more from him. Also, I think Max is telling the truth about the tattoo, so she gave herself a reason to turn him in by deciding he was lying to her, but I don't necessarily think he is.

Regardless of what Carina says, the fact that Isobel's blackouts sound a lot like Wyatt's and the symbol he drew is the same one around Isobel when she woke up in the desert still makes me think she's being controlled.

Nice to learn more about Maria. 

I don't twitter (have one, but I rarely go on), so I will always miss whatever Carina says.  But it really feels like Isobel leaves traces personality or bread crumbs (or something) whenever she enters someone else's mind.  And really, there ought to be consequences for influencing someone like she does.

I connected the fact that Momma Mimi (love that name, shapeshifter!) kept calling Liz "Rosa" with the scene earlier where Isobel couldn't influence Liz because "Rosa" stopped her.  Momma Mimi knows something even if she's getting it jumbled and it sounds like the plot of Independence Day.

I still don't think Isobel killed the teens.  I think she was trying to save them.  I know the two TV series' aren't supposed to be connected and I need to read the books, but I just can't see Isobel being all evil and killer-ish.

[bluebox]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

We finally get a Maria episode, and her mom is Lena from The Fosters! Awesome!

I remember her best as the one who got impregnated with a turkey baster on Sunset Beach. (Yes, really.)

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, bluebox said:

I remember her best as the one who got impregnated with a turkey baster on Sunset Beach. (Yes, really.)

Haha, I remember her from that too, and from One Life to Live. 

I thought it was interesting that when she seemed to be remembering high school times, she said "poor sweet Jimmy Valenti" but when prompted by Alex, she shifted forward in time and disapprovingly mentioned that Jim Valenti was unfaithful to his wife. She may have a point that Jesse Manes wasn't the only one negatively impacted (although arguably, something must have been dark about Jesse all along - Valenti didn't turn into an abusive nightmare). 

[Regalbegal]

On 3/5/2019 at 10:06 PM, izzybee said:

As much as I can snark about this show, it really is coming into its own. This episode felt totally unique to Roswell, New Mexico - a bit of mystery, some sci-fi, angsty cowboys, stunning landscape shots. Most importantly though, I felt like the characters were finally acting their age. Maria's struggle with her mother (while it may be alien induced) was very real and required a maturity that wouldn't have been believable if these characters were any younger. Plus, Izzy's husband standing by her, the little glimpse into Cameron's past - hell, even Liz and Max dealt with their drama pretty reasonably. 

I finally caught up with the last two episodes, and that was my response as well, I really enjoyed both episodes and was for the first time not comparing everything to OG Roswell (where was the OG show at this point, what would have the OG characters done, etc).  I particularly liked the characterization of Isobel this episode, who has been the one character I really haven't connected with so far - it was nice seeing her trying to take control of her life while taking active steps to try to protect others (without the aura of self-sacrifice that both Max and Michael often wallow in). 

Although I am 100% sure there is still another shoe to drop on the "who killed Rosa" side, I thought how it played out at least provided an understandable explanation (although not an excuse) for the awful actions of Max and Michael - they made a stupid decision in the heat of panic without thinking through the consequences (although I don't necessarily think the whole town turning on Rosa's family was that foreseeable), and after that coming cleaning would basically have ended things for all three of them.  Again, this doesn't make their choices any less bad, but at least understandable within the overall plot. 

Also good this episode:  Maria finally getting some screen time (hopefully this will continue); interesting parallels between Max/Liz and Michael/Alex (although the later actually had a real relationship vs mopey pining); and the introduction of Maria's mom. I like where things are going. 

Maybe it is the little piece of emo in my soul but I really liked the "Jumper" cover, although as an old that song will always remind me of "Real World - Seattle".  

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Regalbegal said:

Maybe it is the little piece of emo in my soul but I really liked the "Jumper" cover ...

+1

[Myrrhine]

I had a strong reaction AGAINST Liz this ep. Partially because it’s so unbelievable that she would be able to create some kind of anti-alien serum and have ANY idea what it would do... that the idea of her actually deploying her concoction against one of the pod squad is breathtakingly arrogant and irresponsible. It could kill them / release Isabel’s murderous alter ego / drive her insane / turn her into an atom bomb. She didn’t even know what the acetone did for the aliens on a surface level. (And don’t get me started on Max saying she can make them normal; you are aliens! This is your normal. Until it’s revealed that you are hybrids (surely not) or mutated humans, there’s no reason to think your powers can be suppressed without killing you.)

And her response to Max threatening the racist hospital patient also bothered me. Max works outside the law because the actual law would a) vivisect him and the people he loves and b) deport your father to Mexico in a heartbeat for that matter.

In short, I am way more invested in the podsquad together than Max / Liz. They can just avoid each other for life as far as I’m concerned. 

[AudienceofOne]

  

On 3/6/2019 at 11:47 PM, kj4ever said:

Are we also to believe that a 28 year old scientist could come up with a magic shot in like a week?

She so genius she don't even have to science her science. It sciences itself!

More importantly, she don't even need to do no ethics. In an episode about how Maria's mother was experimented on by the US military and an episode that gave a nod to Henrietta Lacks around that issue, experimenting on aliens without their knowledge and consent was unbelievably tone deaf. Bearing in mind she got those samples under false pretenses when she was secretly trying to prove Max murdered her sister. What the hell do they think they're doing with this character?

But the thing that really annoyed me about this episode is that characters flip flop between scenes for reasons I don't understand. It's like the writer wants two characters to have a particular argument and so they have it even if one character is now in polar opposition to their position on the issue only a few minutes ago. It's just bad writing. 

So Liz and Max argue about Isabel and then two minutes later Liz has the same argument with Isabel but now she's on the other side of the argument. Max and Michael argue about family or the mind swipe or something something and then five minutes later their positions are reversed. I realise it's a problem with the show generally. 

[LeGrandElephant]

On 11/29/2020 at 11:54 PM, AudienceofOne said:

In an episode about how Maria's mother was experimented on by the US military and an episode that gave a nod to Henrietta Lacks around that issue

I am working my way through this show for the first time and I think this must be a spoiler for a future episode?