S14.E15: Truth or Dare

[Danielg342]

The season finale.

Quote

The BAU travel to Los Angeles to investigate several shootings that each take place after multiple car collisions. Also, Rossi prepares to marry Krystall.

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

Yeah, whatever...

[preeya]

Was that the real Johnny Mathis or one of those Hollywood lookalike stand-ins?

[dkb]

Why weren't there other friends or family at this wedding? Looked kind of empty for a venue like they had.

Please do not ruin J.J's home life. No thanks, that ship has sailed many many seasons ago.

Edited February 7, 2019 by dkb

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

Was that the real Johnny Mathis or one of those Hollywood lookalike stand-ins?

No it was the real Mathis. 

[CrimeFan12]

I was enjoying the episode until JJ confessed her love.  Such an eye rolling and unbelievable moment.  First JJ suddenly being able to beat Reid in poker and Emily who did actually beat him acting like she didn't know how to play the game, to this.  I'm not looking forward to the two looking longingly at each other for the last ten episodes.

[Hotchgirl18]

What the hell was THAT?

[Danielg342]

When the judge got the gun from the UnSub, my first thought was, "why didn't she shoot him?" What was he going to do? Shoot her back? She gets the first shot in, there's no way he would be able to shoot back. This guy really didn't think things through.

The meat of this episode was JJ's "secret" to Reid. You know, I used to think intra-team romances were an interesting idea, but after seeing how the show executed it, the idea just isn't something I want the show to pursue.

Not just because I don't want JJ's home life to be destroyed- I just don't see the point of it now, considering we've had ten years of marriage with Will without a hint of an issue so to pull one out now just feels like they're pulling something out of their rears for the sake of drama.

No, the main reason I don't want to see JJ/Reid is that they've built such a nice, wonderful, platonic relationship that introducing the spectre of romance just ruins everything.

My dad used to say that a man and a woman could never be friends. My own life experiences have contradicted that many, many times, and it was refreshing that a Hollywood show acknowledged that a man and a woman could be friends- great friends, even very close friends- and be just that, without any issues at all. The default for a male/female relationship shouldn't always be "will they or won't they bone", because, oftentimes, men and women can co-exist without feeling the need to sleep with each other.

Until tonight, it was great to see JJ and Reid establish that kind of relationship, where the two of them can show affection and admiration and love for each other without, you know, feeling the need to make love to each other. They had a deep, close bond like the best of male/male or female/female friends and it was a joy to watch.

This "will they or won't they" now just ruins all that, and I don't know if they can recapture the magic.

Oh well. I shouldn't be surprised- it's CM after all. When have they ever not messed with a good thing?

[Mysteyman]

 Actually, this is something that I have always wondered about.

It is not like the possibility. of it has not been there.

I do not think that they are teasing the two getting together.

You can have feelings for someone without a romance developing.

[Annber03]

I know full well that I'm in the minority here in being very excited by and curious about that ending. But I'm okay with that. I'm not going to try and change anyone else's mind. I will say, though, that even if Reid and JJ get together, they'll still have great platonic friendships with the other team members, so there's still plenty of proof that men and women can be just friends. 

I do agree, though, that I don't think this was the best way to set up the possibility of Reid/JJ. People are calling it something out of fanfic, and they aren't wrong. And I also agree that if they're going to go there with these two, they need to be careful about how they handle ending Will and JJ's marriage along the way. It would be way too cheap to kill Will off (not that I'd put that past this show, mind, 'cause, well, look at the history of dead significant others), but I hope they refrain from going that route here. I hope they can treat Will right, and honor and acknowledge the good history he and JJ have shared. They deserve that much, at least.  

Regarding the other stuff that happened in this episode, neutral on the case, and liked the wedding, though I wish we could've seen Joy with Krystall and Portia. And it's odd to have somebody like Johnny Mathis there and not have him singing at the wedding. 

*Goes to quietly sit on the sidelines now*

[CrimeFan12]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I know full well that I'm in the minority here in being very excited by and curious about that ending. But I'm okay with that. I'm not going to try and change anyone else's mind. I will say, though, that even if Reid and JJ get together, they'll still have great platonic friendships with the other team members, so there's still plenty of proof that men and women can be just friends. 

I do agree, though, that I don't think this was the best way to set up the possibility of Reid/JJ. People are calling it something out of fanfic, and they aren't wrong. And I also agree that if they're going to go there with these two, they need to be careful about how they handle ending Will and JJ's marriage along the way. It would be way too cheap to kill Will off (not that I'd put that past this show, mind, 'cause, well, look at the history of dead significant others), but I hope they refrain from going that route here. I hope they can treat Will right, and honor and acknowledge the good history he and JJ have shared. They deserve that much, at least.  

Regarding the other stuff that happened in this episode, neutral on the case, and liked the wedding, though I wish we could've seen Joy with Krystall and Portia. And it's odd to have somebody like Johnny Mathis there and not have him singing at the wedding. 

*Goes to quietly sit on the sidelines now*

I am truly not excited nor curious by the ending.  The lame confession tossed us into soap opera land and that is not what CM is.  I groaned and rolled my eyes when she said it.    I'm at a loss of words.

I enjoyed the case but it did seem to be rushed.  My other quibble was why didn't the judge just shoot the guy?  It would be a little tough for him to kill the daughter since he was standing there with the mom.  

[Danielg342]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

It would be way too cheap to kill Will off (not that I'd put that past this show, mind, 'cause, well, look at the history of dead significant others), but I hope they refrain from going that route here.

While a male version of fridging would be kind of unique, I would agree with not going to this route. Will hardly does anything except be a prop for JJ (in this episode he didn't even have a line), so killing him off would very much be a waste.

Only issue I have is, if you go JJ/Reid, what do you do with Will? Maybe the best thing to do is that JJ realized at that moment as a hostage that she was in a marriage of convenience and never really had feelings for him. Maybe JJ suppressed feelings for Reid because, as a former cheerleader, she's "not supposed to date his type".

I think, best case scenario for JJ/Reid is that,

1. JJ drives the story of breaking up with Will (i.e., it's not Reid prodding her to do it) and we see it as a gradual process.
2. Once the time comes for JJ to pair up with Reid, they simply decide to go out on a "second first date" and the show fades to black from there. Leave it to the audience to determine how their relationship ultimately unfolds- don't marry them in the finale.

[ForeverAlone]

I would pat myself on the back for calling that revelation, but honestly, from the preview and the finale photos, it seemed like the most logical conclusion. So I don't get that many points for guessing it. But still, it was nice to see I interpreted things correctly, even if it was exactly the last place I wanted this show to go. 

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I think, best case scenario for JJ/Reid is that,

1. JJ drives the story of breaking up with Will (i.e., it's not Reid prodding her to do it) and we see it as a gradual process.
2. Once the time comes for JJ to pair up with Reid, they simply decide to go out on a "second first date" and the show fades to black from there. Leave it to the audience to determine how their relationship ultimately unfolds- don't marry them in the finale.

I'll definitely agree with this, yeah :). I think they'd be the sort to want to take things slow as it is, so yeah, that kind of setup would make perfect sense. 

[CrimeFan12]

This is the last thing I'm going to say on this episode because of that scene, it ranks right up there 200.  I do believe that Reid with be the gentleman and not pursue and pressure her. He would honorable and not want to ruin JJ's marriage.  That is all on her.  

[mythoughtis]

It’s not where I want to go.  I’m very tired of the drama genre shows consistently ruining marriages for the sake of a storyline.  Very few of the team members are married.  Why do we have to break up the few that are?   JJ and Will have been consistently portrayed as having a stable loving marriage. Stability that JJ especially needs.  They have two children.  Furthermore, although JJ and Spencer make wonderful friends, there’s no chemistry there. I think JJ’s character likes sex, while I think Reid is asexual. 

Finally, I love my friends of either gender, and I’d be happy to tell them so.,, but I’m not in love with them and I don’t want to date them. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by mythoughtis

[Lebanna]

Ok, I have loved this show for fourteen years. This is the end. I am not here for this.

I predicted this would happen, that JJ would confess her eternal love to Reid, a few weeks ago, and now it has. I thought it would happen in season 15 and at least this season wouldn’t be ruined, but of course not.

 It destroys everything I loved about the show- as Daniel says above, especially the feeling that the team were a wonderful unit, without needing to be romantically involved with each other to feel deep love and trust. It also, for me, and as Danielg says above, destroys what I loved about Reid and JJs platonic friendship and their trust and care for each other without sex being in the way. I also loved the idea that they could be each other’s best friends without being together romantically as it is so unusual on TV. I was a huge fan for Mulder and Scully until they got together. That just ruined it for me. And... I was kind of invested in JJs happily ever after, which it is clear, wasn’t even happy to begin with. I thought that was a really lovely depiction of a marriage and partnership of two very different people determined to make it work and having each other’s backs through thick and thin. Obviously not.

Next, inevitably, will be Reid realizing that he has Alzheimer’s or some other terrible problem and knowing that JJ will lose him almost before she has him and what a sacrifice and Oh the humanity... this thing is in now in telenovela territory. I dread to think what else they will do next year. At this point I’d guess someone on the team turns out to be a serial killer as well. There is a time jump and hints about a very special episode for Reid related to this one next year, so I expect that when the show returns JJ will be divorced and she and Reid will already be together. But I expect Reid will go evil or die horribly.

This thing is not CM for me anymore, it hasn’t been for a while if I am honest, and I just hope this doesn’t destroy all my good memories of the show it used to be.

I am however, from now on, always going to be slightly embarrassed that I was ever a fan of something that I can no longer consider to have become anything but trash TV. I wish I had checked out years ago.

So, for me, this show ended last season. God, what a waste. I am done.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Lebanna

[Mystery]

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

When the judge got the gun from the UnSub, my first thought was, "why didn't she shoot him?" What was he going to do? Shoot her back? She gets the first shot in, there's no way he would be able to shoot back. This guy really didn't think things through.

That's just what I was thinking. And if he did shoot her, then maybe her daughter would be safe. She could easily have made a scene, lowering the gun like she couldn't do it, and then turned it on him and got him SOMEWHERE. 

 

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

People are calling it something out of fanfic, and they aren't wrong.

This is what I was thinking the whole way through. It was like poorly written fan fiction. Even the non-JJ and Reid parts. From the very beginning, when Emily said that the LA police thought that the shootings were "road rage gone wrong." I mean, when has road rage ever gone RIGHT?

It even bugged me that Dave went to LA. 

It seems like JJ could have said she was in love with someone else on the team and got the same effect. What was the point of Reid misreading her during the poker game, if he was supposed to be able to see through her at the end?

Hated just about every minute of this. 

Why was that cake so big for so few people? The venue couldn't hold enough people to eat that cake. 

[Mysteyman]

I think people have this wrong.

They are NOT getting Reid/JJ together.

It is leading  somewhere.just not where you might think.

We shall see.

[Lebanna]

The more I think about it, this is probably the only way they could have ruined the series for me short of making one of the lead characters a monstrous serial killer. I’m never going to be able to watch all those cute friendship scenes again or anything about JJ and Reid’s previous relationships without thinking- this is all a lie. 

It ruins Reid’s relationship with JJs boys as he is now going to be the guy who breaks up their parents marriage and their happy family, or the person who turned their happiness into a lie.

Plus the downmarket element of having an internal team romance like all the other NCIS clones. And there’s no time to go back to when this thing wasn’t going on. This starts in episode 1.

It wasn’t even that Maeve was the only perfect woman for Reid, it was always just that he couldn’t have JJ. He was killing time with an internet girlfriend because he couldn’t have the woman in front of him. He wasn’t the proud godfather, he was the dream step-father, all along. He was in the kids’ lives so that JJ could imagine, just for a minute, that he was their father.

Everything we have been told about these characters and their relationships has been made a lie, now.

The entire history of the show is tainted, even if they never get together. 

It ruins everything.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Lebanna

[BellyLaughter]

The writing for this show has been shite for a long time.... it just got even worse.  What are they thinking?? I pray it’s a misdirect but even then it’s still a really, really bad idea...

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

I didn't watch the show nor do I intend to do so, because from what I'm reading, it sounds like a huge waste of time, which means I was absolutely right to throw it in the trash before it even aired.

 

All I'm gonna say is that after this, the JJ character will truly deserve the "Cold B*tch" label some people have put on her for years. Because to have made a man who's been nothing but loving and supportive to you for years think you loved him and were in love with him for what ? 9-10 years ? when the truth is you've been salivating over another one this whole time, it takes a real queen B*tch to do that. I knew I had good reasons to dislike this character as much as I do : everything about her screams FAKE.

 

Also, Hotch & Emily was a No, No when they were both single, despite their vocal fan base, but they can do Reid/SuperJJ despite one of them being married with 2 kids, right ? Ooook. 

Like someone else said, this stupid show should have ended after season 7.

Edited February 7, 2019 by SSA Emily Prentiss

[Kelda Feegle]

Completely expected Johnny Mathis to sing.

JJ and Reid is wrong in so many ways as many people have already noted.

The alternative @Lebanna noted, one of the team as a serial killer was what pissed me off in Bones when they did that to Zac.

Elementary got the m/f leads without romance right, why can't other shows?

[Danielg342]

5 minutes ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Elementary got the m/f leads without romance right, why can't other shows?

...and Joan and Sherlock had actual romantic chemistry, so if they hitched I wouldn't have minded.

JJ and Reid never appeared anything more than platonic to me.

[JMO]

Oh, my.  Leading up to the episode,  I found myself cringing because, no matter which way they went with whatever was happening between JJ and Reid, I didn’t trust them to leave Reid in a good place.  More on that later.

Not to forget the rest of the episode:

Good news, everyone!  All current and cold serial killer cases have been solved!  So the team gets to play poker on government time.  Or maybe that was their furlough. 

Also good news, the police played a visible (if unfortunate) role in the case, and the team followed SWAT in the door, harkening back to days of old.

The wedding:  why did they need that huge room if there were only going to be under 20 people there?  I was surprised it wasn’t held at Rossi Manor.  We didn’t get to hear vows.  Alvez has rhythm, but the dancing was not pleasant to watch.  And, really, Emily, you thought it was appropriate to mention the groom’s prior marriages during his wedding toast?   Wow.  Lastly, Johnny Mathis?  I love his music, but it turns out the JJ/Reid thing wasn’t the only sudden, unexplained occurrence. 

I was kind of hoping the pregnancy announcement would get Simmons to realize he needs a safer job, but I think I’ve seen him in BTS pics for season 15 episodes.

Will was the most articulate I’ve ever heard him. 

And then, JJ/Reid.  So, as anyone who has read my fanfiction probably knows, they have a habit of coming together in my stories.  But that happens after a fair amount of back story that tries to bridge the gap from what we see on screen, to the relationship they have in the story.  (There are even two long, related stories spawned solely from a desire to explain JJ’s prior eyerolling!) 

So, while I don’t think it’s impossible to see them together, I also don’t think there’s been enough lead up to it.  I do think there’s always been that ‘best friends plus’ to their relationship, and I think that’s been well-portrayed. 

I’ve seen a lot of negative opinion on it, here and elsewhere, complaining about the show going the direction of JJ/Reid.  But, since we didn’t hear Reid return the sentiment, does that mean that the people complaining already believe he’s in love with JJ?  Takes two to tango, and we were only given one, on screen.  I kind of doubt they will ultimately go in this direction, but then, I also didn’t expect them to take it this far.  

Just an aside on the strength of the JJ/Will marriage.  I’ve never seen the spark, and it’s always sounded like JJ hasn’t, either.  He proposed four times, and she turned him down.  She initiated the ‘final’ proposal in a period of emotional release after Will and Henry had been in danger, then was surprised by a wedding Rossi had arranged in his backyard.  Not exactly true love level, but I can buy that, like many other couples, they’ve managed to make it work.

I actually think they left it up in the air pretty well.  JJ was definitely lying, but which time?  Is Reid left to wonder, since he’d obviously missed her ‘tell’ in the poker game?  (Or did he see it, and let her win?)  AJ played the final scene well enough that I couldn’t be 100% positive which it was.  I did love that Reid, seeing her discomfort, and not wanting to lose her friendship, tried to make it all right.  We’ll see how successful he was next season. 

I think the show is crazy like a fox, for doing this.  There have already been more episode-related posts here and elsewhere than I can remember seeing in a long time.  Lots of people talking, probably lots of fanfiction to come (there’s already a very irate one out there).  Since there’s an unknown period of time before season 15 begins, this might end up serving as a way to keep conversation going for much of the interim.

The one major positive development I see is that I think it will be very, very hard for them to regress Reid to the immature, awkward version that seems to show up every few episodes.  However he goes out, I think it will be as an adult.

[ForeverAlone]

I just don't see why this show would go down the route of even teasing a JJ/Reid relationship, unless that is where they truly wanted to go with this. I mean, this isn't a show that has made a habit of hooking team members up with each other. JJ has been married for years and has two kids. Reid harbored a crush on JJ all those years ago, but he has been pretty much alone aside from the ill fated Maeve romance. They could have written any other secret for JJ if they really wanted to have some sort of truth. But for her to whip out the secret she has been in love with Reid all of this time? To me that means they want to explore this in some way in season 15. While Reid didn't say anything one way or the other, I think he was just playing his cards close to his vest, because it's not like he wanted to confess his feelings if he wasn't pretty sure JJ meant what she said. To me, it seemed like he was deep in thought, considering her feelings and what that meant for his feelings. Even though I am very much opposed to this storytelling choice, based on what I saw, I think JJ meant what she said to Reid just based on her reactions and everything. If the writers really wanted this to be some sort of ploy to throw off crazy unsub, I think they would have had Reid and JJ laughing or joking about this. But they played it serious, and since this revelation is supposed to follow them into season 15, I think this is for real. *sighs* 

[Welcome5431]

In the library, in such an early stage of the investigation, should the profilers have been curious about 
what subject, or segment of the Dewy decimal system the unsub had been perusing? The particular stack would have been a Californian gold mine of physical, metaphorical and symbolic material for those detectives. 

[Welcome5431]

The witty manipulation during the hostage scene was limited to Profilers' literal soaps.I am glad this episode was the season finale . I wouldn't have made it to May on a dare. The truth is that I barely made it through this case

Edited February 9, 2019 by Welcome5431

[Annber03]

On 2/7/2019 at 4:28 AM, Lebanna said:

It wasn’t even that Maeve was the only perfect woman for Reid, it was always just that he couldn’t have JJ. He was killing time with an internet girlfriend because he couldn’t have the woman in front of him. He wasn’t the proud godfather, he was the dream step-father, all along. He was in the kids’ lives so that JJ could imagine, just for a minute, that he was their father.

I wouldn't put it that way, myself. He wound up with Maeve because he genuinely loved and cared about her, not because she just happened to be the next best thing. And while JJ may have harbored some feelings for Reid, I think she picked him to be part of her kids' lives because she genuinely felt he could be a good influence on them, and also because he was so helpful to her during her pregnancy with Henry-he was already invested in Henry, and later Michael, as it was, so why not give him a special place in the family as a result? 

It's very odd to me that the idea that Reid and JJ could each genuinely love more than one person at the same time isn't being considered here. That happens all the time, after all. Just because JJ may have some lingering feelings for Reid, that does not mean she didn't, or doesn't, love Will (that doesn't even mean she'll leave Will), nor does it mean that her entire relationship with Will was a lie or her just quietly biding her time or being a "bitch" or whatever. 

In regards to the whole thing of wanting to see men and women being friends, well, Reid has Emily, Tara, and Garcia among his friends. And JJ, meanwhile, can count Rossi, Hotch, Morgan, and Luke among her friends. And they've both gotten on well to varying degrees with the other men and women who've been part of the team over the years, too. There you go, there's plenty of examples of men and women remaining friends to enjoy and appreciate right there. 

(To say nothing of how a friendship often tends to be a good, solid foundation for a relationship, but yeah.)

Finally, regarding the people who keep saying they won't watch next season, that's entirely your choice, of course. And I get that some may be wary about how this storyline will play out next season (to which I'd add that since we don't actually yet know, and since there's still always a possibility Reid and JJ may not wind up together, all these "worst case scenario" reactions and objections feel a little premature), or be concerned about what they might have planned for the other characters going forward, or things of that sort, that can give them some pause going forward. 

But it seems weird to me that some would choose to cut out now, when there's only ten episodes left in the series as a whole, or to have this be the cutoff after all the other crazy stuff they've put these characters through, and which people have complained about, over the years. 

*Shrugs* Like I said, entirely your choice, people, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. Just my thoughts. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I haven't even watched it (yet), and I'm already super torn about this.

The long time JJ/Reid fanon shipper in me is over the moon about the possibilities - and I'll make no bones about it, if they don't go through with it, then this will have been a completely stupid and foolish waste of time & melodrama.  Whereas the canon follower side of me thinks its way too late to pull this out of the bag of tricks - JJ's long marriage + kids.

I have to agree with those that say it feels like fan fiction.  In that either they'll put them together, or it being a way for EM & the writers to 'shout out' to the JJ/R shippers that "yes, we see you, and this was the nod to prove it".

I can't take credit for this, as I saw it elsewhere, but even though I prefer the fanon ship of JJ/Reid the most, wouldn't it have made so much more sense to have paired up Reid & Prentiss instead, if going to introduce an inter-team romance (for Reid) to 'season up' the final 10 episodes?  Both would be [relatively] single and avoiding having to navigate personal 'baggage' like an already existing marriage and kids.

No matter how the story turns out between JJ & Reid, its going to feel right and wrong at the same time (imo).

Edited February 9, 2019 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Kelda Feegle]

2 hours ago, Welcome5431 said:

In the library, in such an early stage of the investigation, should the profilers have been curious about 
what subject, or segment of the Dewy decimal system the unsub had been perusing? The particular stack would have been a Californian gold mine of physical, metaphorical and symbolic material for those detectives. 

I felt that whole part was completely wasted, I assumed that the hostage taker had left the instructions and list of victims in a book there for the coerced killer to find and that it was his safe drop or something but nope no mention of anything related.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

while JJ may have harbored some feelings for Reid, I think she picked him to be part of her kids' lives because she genuinely felt he could be a good influence on them, and also because he was so helpful to her during her pregnancy with Henry-he was already invested in Henry, and later Michael, as it was, so why not give him a special place in the family as a result? 

...but now you have to look at JJ's actions (at least) through the lens of her always having feelings for Reid. That lens says that, while JJ may have had more platonic, pragmatic reasons for having Reid in her life and in the life of her kids, there's now an undeniable track that says part of JJ's thinking is, "what if Reid was their dad?" It's inescapable now, and it was always a lingering presence, even if JJ managed to suppress it for periods of time.

The one question this raises for me is why Will never sought to question JJ about her true intentions with Reid. The only diplomatic resolution to this issue is that Will too believes his marriage to JJ was one merely about convenience and thus never sought to really bother JJ about all the time she spends with Reid. Of course, then it raises the question about why Will and JJ have stayed together for so long even with JJ's less than 100% commitment to the marriage. I mean, this is 2019, not 1859- divorces are a thing and aren't frowned upon, so no one is truly "trapped" in a marriage.

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

In regards to the whole thing of wanting to see men and women being friends, well, Reid has Emily, Tara, and Garcia among his friends. And JJ, meanwhile, can count Rossi, Hotch, Morgan, and Luke among her friends. And they've both gotten on well to varying degrees with the other men and women who've been part of the team over the years, too. There you go, there's plenty of examples of men and women remaining friends to enjoy and appreciate right there. 

Except that none of those relationships are even as remotely as well developed as Reid/JJ. I don't see JJ asking Rossi, Hotch, Morgan, Luke or Matt (you left him out) to be her children's godfather or their Confirmation sponsor nor do I see any of them going out of their way to help JJ with her chores or her duties outside of work. The best they are to JJ are work friends, maybe "good friends" that she hangs out with after work or on her down time when she gets the time, but nothing close to the familial-type bond she has with Reid.

I know JJ and Morgan were paired up often in S7 and S8 as some kind of "crime fighting duo", and JJ called out Morgan for not respecting Reid's private life, but they didn't do much except work together. JJ and Luke and Matt have hardly had any interactions together, and each time they've interacted, it's really just been for work. JJ and Hotch had a bit of a bond because both were working parents, and I always thought Hotch admired JJ, but, again, I don't believe they did much outside of work.

That leaves Rossi and, while he and JJ have had nice moments of father/daughter interactions, and I think there's some chemistry in that relationship, I'm not really sure JJ views Rossi as anything more than an "external parental figure". I doubt JJ would seek out Rossi to hang out with or enjoy a movie together, let alone be there to christen her child.

Then we get to Reid. I know there are those who say there are sparks with Reid and Prentiss, but I'm not seeing them. Prentiss never came across as anything more than Reid's "big sister" and she's older than Reid (Paget Brewster herself is over eleven years older than Matthew Gray Gubler). Furthermore, Prentiss is more of the "workaholic" type who pretty much puts her career over everything and everyone else and would probably go for someone with the same kind of mentality. Not to say that Reid isn't dedicated to his craft, but Reid's shtick is more about that work/life balance, where he needs "breaks" from work to stimulate his mind and get it going for work. Taking a break from work is not something that Emily Prentiss would ever do.

As for Reid's other female ties- Tara and Garcia, as well as Ashley Seaver, Alex Blake, Kate Callahan, Jordan Todd and Elle Greenaway- again, there's nothing close to resembling the closeness Reid had with JJ. We can probably strike Seaver, Todd and Callahan from the discussion since they were hardly blips on the BAU radar, though Callahan had a few nice moments with Reid. Reid and Tara hardly ever seem to interact, and Reid doesn't seem to have much interaction (or chemistry) with Garcia outside of work requests. Garcia has a much closer relationship with Morgan, the only other well-developed, purely platonic male/female relationship on this show (even if their banter and their drama drove people nuts). I'd go even further and say that Garcia/Morgan could have even worked as a romantic relationship since I actually felt that kind of energy from those two, and not just because of the banter (Morgan camped out at her home until her would-be killer was caught- their exchange where Morgan hands her a gun will always be a highlight for me).

When's the last time Reid slept on Garcia's couch or listened when she needed advice on dealing with her seemingly now forgotten boyfriend Sam? Besides, the few times Reid and Garcia had to work together (e.g. "Haunted"), Reid and Garcia seemed to do nothing but bicker.

This leaves Blake and Elle, the only other two ladies who had relationships with Reid on a more personal level. Perhaps if Elle had stuck around and interacted more with Reid some genuine sparks could have been created, because I think the two had some great interactions that could have developed into a deeper and fuller bond. Unfortunately, Elle's abrupt exit halted those plans, and I'm not sure there'd be enough time in S15 to rekindle that magic. It'd also look like a desperation move too- pair Reid with her simply because he can't have JJ. There's just no winning here.

So, lastly, Blake. She's one of the few people in Reid's life that never treated him as a "sideshow" or the butt to a joke like some of his supposed pals have done and actually seems to respect and maybe even admire Reid on an intellectual and personal level. Arguably, though she's not Reid's peer when it comes to intelligence she's probably very close and her mindset is likely the closest to Reid's, so she gets how he thinks and how he acts. She was also the one that Reid chose to break the news about Maeve, over other "more obvious choices" like Morgan or JJ, and Blake said Reid reminded her about her lost son, Ethan.

That said...we never did see Reid interact with Blake outside of work except when Blake left the team, and I never really got the sense that Reid just saw Blake as anything more than someone he talks to whenever he needs to. He doesn't think of her when he wants to have someone to hang out with and chill with, and she's much older than him anyway. They couldn't relate to each other much with regards to life experiences anyway.

Then there's the serious moments the two have had together:

When JJ was pregnant a second time, who was the first to know? Reid.

When JJ had her PTSD meltdown in "The Forever People" (an episode I'd rather forget but can't), who was the one person who did all he could to help her through her struggle? Reid.

When Henry dressed up as a member of the BAU for Hallowe'en, who did he pick? Reid.

When Reid was sent to jail, who cried the most and felt the most helpless about the situation? JJ.

When Reid got out of jail, who was the happiest to see him (and first to hug him)? JJ.

When Reid had to confront Cat about his kidnapped mother, who did the BAU send with him to ensure that he doesn't snap when dealing with Cat? JJ.

I could go on and on and on. Truth is, Reid and JJ- especially in the last few seasons- have had a depth to their relationship that they just don't have with anyone else. Reid and JJ are not two people who will talk to each other at work or will occasionally grab a bite to eat outside of work or catch a movie together or even two people who assist each other with dealing with personal problems- they're well beyond that. They're so practically immersed in each other's lives that, if one didn't know any better, you'd think they're brother and sister, people who trust and bond with each other on a level that we rarely- if ever- experience in our own lives.

Reid and JJ weren't just friends or "good friends" or even "best friends". They were beyond that, and, until this episode ruined it, they didn't need the spectre of a romance for that to happen.

Not to beat a dead horse, but this episode's reveal hurts that relationship on so many levels. Most importantly it's now impossible to look at just how immersed Reid and JJ are with each other without thinking or wondering how much of that is due to a desire for both to get together romantically, as opposed to having, simply, a genuine care for each other.

The prospect of romance leaves this air of "selfishness" on the part of both Reid and JJ (because now at least part of their pursuit of their friendship now includes the selfish desire that they wind up together) and that just leaves me uncomfortable. It's a tired and I'd say culturally toxic trope, because it reinforces the idea that opposite gender relationships must be defined by their gonads when reality can be- and should be- so much more.

[Fashionista7]

I just want to know HOW Reid's mother plays into all of this.

Can't believe we have to wait until the two-part S15 openings.

On 2/6/2019 at 11:31 PM, Danielg342 said:

When the judge got the gun from the UnSub, my first thought was, "why didn't she shoot him?" What was he going to do? Shoot her back? She gets the first shot in, there's no way he would be able to shoot back. This guy really didn't think things through.

The meat of this episode was JJ's "secret" to Reid. You know, I used to think intra-team romances were an interesting idea, but after seeing how the show executed it, the idea just isn't something I want the show to pursue.

Not just because I don't want JJ's home life to be destroyed- I just don't see the point of it now, considering we've had ten years of marriage with Will without a hint of an issue so to pull one out now just feels like they're pulling something out of their rears for the sake of drama.

No, the main reason I don't want to see JJ/Reid is that they've built such a nice, wonderful, platonic relationship that introducing the spectre of romance just ruins everything.

My dad used to say that a man and a woman could never be friends. My own life experiences have contradicted that many, many times, and it was refreshing that a Hollywood show acknowledged that a man and a woman could be friends- great friends, even very close friends- and be just that, without any issues at all. The default for a male/female relationship shouldn't always be "will they or won't they bone", because, oftentimes, men and women can co-exist without feeling the need to sleep with each other.

Until tonight, it was great to see JJ and Reid establish that kind of relationship, where the two of them can show affection and admiration and love for each other without, you know, feeling the need to make love to each other. They had a deep, close bond like the best of male/male or female/female friends and it was a joy to watch.

This "will they or won't they" now just ruins all that, and I don't know if they can recapture the magic.

Oh well. I shouldn't be surprised- it's CM after all. When have they ever not messed with a good thing?

Ditto!

[Fashionista7]

On 2/7/2019 at 5:28 AM, Lebanna said:

The more I think about it, this is probably the only way they could have ruined the series for me short of making one of the lead characters a monstrous serial killer. I’m never going to be able to watch all those cute friendship scenes again or anything about JJ and Reid’s previous relationships without thinking- this is all a lie. 

It ruins Reid’s relationship with JJs boys as he is now going to be the guy who breaks up their parents marriage and their happy family, or the person who turned their happiness into a lie.

Plus the downmarket element of having an internal team romance like all the other NCIS clones. And there’s no time to go back to when this thing wasn’t going on. This starts in episode 1.

It wasn’t even that Maeve was the only perfect woman for Reid, it was always just that he couldn’t have JJ. He was killing time with an internet girlfriend because he couldn’t have the woman in front of him. He wasn’t the proud godfather, he was the dream step-father, all along. He was in the kids’ lives so that JJ could imagine, just for a minute, that he was their father.

Everything we have been told about these characters and their relationships has been made a lie, now.

The entire history of the show is tainted, even if they never get together. 

It ruins everything.

Could not agree with you anymore.

[Fashionista7]

And I think EM said it wouldn't be a will they-won't they solution.

[Fashionista7]

6 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I just don't see why this show would go down the route of even teasing a JJ/Reid relationship, unless that is where they truly wanted to go with this. I mean, this isn't a show that has made a habit of hooking team members up with each other. JJ has been married for years and has two kids. Reid harbored a crush on JJ all those years ago, but he has been pretty much alone aside from the ill fated Maeve romance. They could have written any other secret for JJ if they really wanted to have some sort of truth. But for her to whip out the secret she has been in love with Reid all of this time? To me that means they want to explore this in some way in season 15. While Reid didn't say anything one way or the other, I think he was just playing his cards close to his vest, because it's not like he wanted to confess his feelings if he wasn't pretty sure JJ meant what she said. To me, it seemed like he was deep in thought, considering her feelings and what that meant for his feelings. Even though I am very much opposed to this storytelling choice, based on what I saw, I think JJ meant what she said to Reid just based on her reactions and everything. If the writers really wanted this to be some sort of ploy to throw off crazy unsub, I think they would have had Reid and JJ laughing or joking about this. But they played it serious, and since this revelation is supposed to follow them into season 15, I think this is for real. *sighs* 

"It will definitely be explored," showrunner Erica Messer tells ET of JJ's bombshell, explaining why they decided to explore the relationship further. "Ultimately, it goes down to the relationships that people have been watching and seeing how they’ve grown over the years. There’s something real in people who have worked together for a super long time -- certainly in law enforcement, where it’s life and death. Some people would say it’s like going to war together. You have a bond with people that can’t be defined. It’s one in times of incredible stress. We wanted to be able to acknowledge that but also be completely aware that this is going to be a bomb for a lot of people."

When the writers came to Messer with the initial idea to bring JJ and Reid together in a more substantial way, Messer admitted she had her reservations.

"I was really concerned about it. The writers’ room pitched it to me and I was like, 'No, we can’t do that,'" she said. "The more we talked about it as a team and the more we talked with Matthew and A.J. about it, it was like, 'This could work. This makes sense and here’s why.' It’s something that we wanted to explore in the final 10 [episodes] and allow ourselves insight into our heroes and allow them to grow from this revelation."

One thing fans won't see is a traditional love triangle brewing between JJ, Reid and JJ's husband, Will (Josh Stewart), as a result of her confession, which, for the record, only JJ and Reid are aware of.

"We didn’t want to play the 'will they-won’t they' or 'she’s got to make a choice.' It’s a little bit messier than that," Messer hinted. "When we meet them in the first two episodes of season 15, what we learn is they haven’t really talked about it because it’s made that much of an impact. Six months have passed story-wise and it’s time they talk about it. It gets muddy."

"Her confessing that doesn’t mean she doesn’t love the life she has tremendously. Without giving away too much of the actual dialogue that’s coming up, she’s been defined by the love in her life and the love in her life is Will and the kids, it’s Reid, it’s her friends, it’s the work that she does," she previewed. "There are a lot of things that define people and [Reid] is one of those things to her. Maybe if she had never met Will in season two, things would’ve been different. If in another time and place... There’s heartbreak to that but you would want to know that in a friendship or relationship. It’s complicated."

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

...but now you have to look at JJ's actions (at least) through the lens of her always having feelings for Reid. That lens says that, while JJ may have had more platonic, pragmatic reasons for having Reid in her life and in the life of her kids, there's now an undeniable track that says part of JJ's thinking is, "what if Reid was their dad?" It's inescapable now, and it was always a lingering presence, even if JJ managed to suppress it for periods of time.

The one question this raises for me is why Will never sought to question JJ about her true intentions with Reid. The only diplomatic resolution to this issue is that Will too believes his marriage to JJ was one merely about convenience and thus never sought to really bother JJ about all the time she spends with Reid. Of course, then it raises the question about why Will and JJ have stayed together for so long even with JJ's less than 100% commitment to the marriage. I mean, this is 2019, not 1859- divorces are a thing and aren't frowned upon, so no one is truly "trapped" in a marriage.

Except that none of those relationships are even as remotely as well developed as Reid/JJ. I don't see JJ asking Rossi, Hotch, Morgan, Luke or Matt (you left him out) to be her children's godfather or their Confirmation sponsor nor do I see any of them going out of their way to help JJ with her chores or her duties outside of work. The best they are to JJ are work friends, maybe "good friends" that she hangs out with after work or on her down time when she gets the time, but nothing close to the familial-type bond she has with Reid.

I know JJ and Morgan were paired up often in S7 and S8 as some kind of "crime fighting duo", and JJ called out Morgan for not respecting Reid's private life, but they didn't do much except work together. JJ and Luke and Matt have hardly had any interactions together, and each time they've interacted, it's really just been for work. JJ and Hotch had a bit of a bond because both were working parents, and I always thought Hotch admired JJ, but, again, I don't believe they did much outside of work.

That leaves Rossi and, while he and JJ have had nice moments of father/daughter interactions, and I think there's some chemistry in that relationship, I'm not really sure JJ views Rossi as anything more than an "external parental figure". I doubt JJ would seek out Rossi to hang out with or enjoy a movie together, let alone be there to christen her child.

Then we get to Reid. I know there are those who say there are sparks with Reid and Prentiss, but I'm not seeing them. Prentiss never came across as anything more than Reid's "big sister" and she's older than Reid (Paget Brewster herself is over eleven years older than Matthew Gray Gubler). Furthermore, Prentiss is more of the "workaholic" type who pretty much puts her career over everything and everyone else and would probably go for someone with the same kind of mentality. Not to say that Reid isn't dedicated to his craft, but Reid's shtick is more about that work/life balance, where he needs "breaks" from work to stimulate his mind and get it going for work. Taking a break from work is not something that Emily Prentiss would ever do.

As for Reid's other female ties- Tara and Garcia, as well as Ashley Seaver, Alex Blake, Kate Callahan, Jordan Todd and Elle Greenaway- again, there's nothing close to resembling the closeness Reid had with JJ. We can probably strike Seaver, Todd and Callahan from the discussion since they were hardly blips on the BAU radar, though Callahan had a few nice moments with Reid. Reid and Tara hardly ever seem to interact, and Reid doesn't seem to have much interaction (or chemistry) with Garcia outside of work requests. Garcia has a much closer relationship with Morgan, the only other well-developed, purely platonic male/female relationship on this show (even if their banter and their drama drove people nuts). I'd go even further and say that Garcia/Morgan could have even worked as a romantic relationship since I actually felt that kind of energy from those two, and not just because of the banter (Morgan camped out at her home until her would-be killer was caught- their exchange where Morgan hands her a gun will always be a highlight for me).

When's the last time Reid slept on Garcia's couch or listened when she needed advice on dealing with her seemingly now forgotten boyfriend Sam? Besides, the few times Reid and Garcia had to work together (e.g. "Haunted"), Reid and Garcia seemed to do nothing but bicker.

This leaves Blake and Elle, the only other two ladies who had relationships with Reid on a more personal level. Perhaps if Elle had stuck around and interacted more with Reid some genuine sparks could have been created, because I think the two had some great interactions that could have developed into a deeper and fuller bond. Unfortunately, Elle's abrupt exit halted those plans, and I'm not sure there'd be enough time in S15 to rekindle that magic. It'd also look like a desperation move too- pair Reid with her simply because he can't have JJ. There's just no winning here.

So, lastly, Blake. She's one of the few people in Reid's life that never treated him as a "sideshow" or the butt to a joke like some of his supposed pals have done and actually seems to respect and maybe even admire Reid on an intellectual and personal level. Arguably, though she's not Reid's peer when it comes to intelligence she's probably very close and her mindset is likely the closest to Reid's, so she gets how he thinks and how he acts. She was also the one that Reid chose to break the news about Maeve, over other "more obvious choices" like Morgan or JJ, and Blake said Reid reminded her about her lost son, Ethan.

That said...we never did see Reid interact with Blake outside of work except when Blake left the team, and I never really got the sense that Reid just saw Blake as anything more than someone he talks to whenever he needs to. He doesn't think of her when he wants to have someone to hang out with and chill with, and she's much older than him anyway. They couldn't relate to each other much with regards to life experiences anyway.

Then there's the serious moments the two have had together:

When JJ was pregnant a second time, who was the first to know? Reid.

When JJ had her PTSD meltdown in "The Forever People" (an episode I'd rather forget but can't), who was the one person who did all he could to help her through her struggle? Reid.

When Henry dressed up as a member of the BAU for Hallowe'en, who did he pick? Reid.

When Reid was sent to jail, who cried the most and felt the most helpless about the situation? JJ.

When Reid got out of jail, who was the happiest to see him (and first to hug him)? JJ.

When Reid had to confront Cat about his kidnapped mother, who did the BAU send with him to ensure that he doesn't snap when dealing with Cat? JJ.

I could go on and on and on. Truth is, Reid and JJ- especially in the last few seasons- have had a depth to their relationship that they just don't have with anyone else. Reid and JJ are not two people who will talk to each other at work or will occasionally grab a bite to eat outside of work or catch a movie together or even two people who assist each other with dealing with personal problems- they're well beyond that. They're so practically immersed in each other's lives that, if one didn't know any better, you'd think they're brother and sister, people who trust and bond with each other on a level that we rarely- if ever- experience in our own lives.

Reid and JJ weren't just friends or "good friends" or even "best friends". They were beyond that, and, until this episode ruined it, they didn't need the spectre of a romance for that to happen.

Not to beat a dead horse, but this episode's reveal hurts that relationship on so many levels. Most importantly it's now impossible to look at just how immersed Reid and JJ are with each other without thinking or wondering how much of that is due to a desire for both to get together romantically, as opposed to having, simply, a genuine care for each other.

The prospect of romance leaves this air of "selfishness" on the part of both Reid and JJ (because now at least part of their pursuit of their friendship now includes the selfish desire that they wind up together) and that just leaves me uncomfortable. It's a tired and I'd say culturally toxic trope, because it reinforces the idea that opposite gender relationships must be defined by their gonads when reality can be- and should be- so much more.

Their relationship is more brother and sister.

[ohalysssa]

Truly hate the show pushing this random romance between our two favorite characters. It was also cringey and awkward in the beginning of the episode where Reid and JJ are flirting hard during poker. Did anyone else notice that?

[idiotwaltz]

Between the posts above and the screencaps I saw on Tumblr, I’m staying the hell away from this episode as well as all of next season. 

[Annber03]

16 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

...but now you have to look at JJ's actions (at least) through the lens of her always having feelings for Reid. That lens says that, while JJ may have had more platonic, pragmatic reasons for having Reid in her life and in the life of her kids, there's now an undeniable track that says part of JJ's thinking is, "what if Reid was their dad?" It's inescapable now, and it was always a lingering presence, even if JJ managed to suppress it for periods of time.

Well, Reid and JJ having feelings for each other for years is nothing new to me, and yet I still look at that moment as her having platonic and pragmatic reasons for picking Reid. Maybe in the very, very far back of her mind, she might've had a fleeting "if he were their dad" thought about it, but ultimately, I don't think that was a main consideration when she picked him. 

Quote

The one question this raises for me is why Will never sought to question JJ about her true intentions with Reid. The only diplomatic resolution to this issue is that Will too believes his marriage to JJ was one merely about convenience and thus never sought to really bother JJ about all the time she spends with Reid. Of course, then it raises the question about why Will and JJ have stayed together for so long even with JJ's less than 100% commitment to the marriage. I mean, this is 2019, not 1859- divorces are a thing and aren't frowned upon, so no one is truly "trapped" in a marriage.

People aren't trapped in marriages, no, and I agree it probably would've been a better idea in many ways. But there can still be all sorts of valid reasons why people are hesitant to get a divorce regardless. When you consider the rocky history with JJ's own parents, for instance, I imagine that could factor into her feelings on the matter. And many people are often wary of getting a divorce when kids are in the picture. so there's that to consider, too. Plus, given how often JJ was away because of her job, as well as however many hours Will would've worked at his job, maybe that made it easier for them to deal with the fact that there wasn't as deep a commitment as there should've been? I dunno. 

Quote

Except that none of those relationships are even as remotely as well developed as Reid/JJ. I don't see JJ asking Rossi, Hotch, Morgan, Luke or Matt (you left him out) to be her children's godfather or their Confirmation sponsor nor do I see any of them going out of their way to help JJ with her chores or her duties outside of work. The best they are to JJ are work friends, maybe "good friends" that she hangs out with after work or on her down time when she gets the time, but nothing close to the familial-type bond she has with Reid.

I know JJ and Morgan were paired up often in S7 and S8 as some kind of "crime fighting duo", and JJ called out Morgan for not respecting Reid's private life, but they didn't do much except work together. JJ and Luke and Matt have hardly had any interactions together, and each time they've interacted, it's really just been for work. JJ and Hotch had a bit of a bond because both were working parents, and I always thought Hotch admired JJ, but, again, I don't believe they did much outside of work.

That leaves Rossi and, while he and JJ have had nice moments of father/daughter interactions, and I think there's some chemistry in that relationship, I'm not really sure JJ views Rossi as anything more than an "external parental figure". I doubt JJ would seek out Rossi to hang out with or enjoy a movie together, let alone be there to christen her child.

Then we get to Reid. I know there are those who say there are sparks with Reid and Prentiss, but I'm not seeing them. Prentiss never came across as anything more than Reid's "big sister" and she's older than Reid (Paget Brewster herself is over eleven years older than Matthew Gray Gubler). Furthermore, Prentiss is more of the "workaholic" type who pretty much puts her career over everything and everyone else and would probably go for someone with the same kind of mentality. Not to say that Reid isn't dedicated to his craft, but Reid's shtick is more about that work/life balance, where he needs "breaks" from work to stimulate his mind and get it going for work. Taking a break from work is not something that Emily Prentiss would ever do.

As for Reid's other female ties- Tara and Garcia, as well as Ashley Seaver, Alex Blake, Kate Callahan, Jordan Todd and Elle Greenaway- again, there's nothing close to resembling the closeness Reid had with JJ. We can probably strike Seaver, Todd and Callahan from the discussion since they were hardly blips on the BAU radar, though Callahan had a few nice moments with Reid. Reid and Tara hardly ever seem to interact, and Reid doesn't seem to have much interaction (or chemistry) with Garcia outside of work requests. Garcia has a much closer relationship with Morgan, the only other well-developed, purely platonic male/female relationship on this show (even if their banter and their drama drove people nuts). I'd go even further and say that Garcia/Morgan could have even worked as a romantic relationship since I actually felt that kind of energy from those two, and not just because of the banter (Morgan camped out at her home until her would-be killer was caught- their exchange where Morgan hands her a gun will always be a highlight for me).

When's the last time Reid slept on Garcia's couch or listened when she needed advice on dealing with her seemingly now forgotten boyfriend Sam? Besides, the few times Reid and Garcia had to work together (e.g. "Haunted"), Reid and Garcia seemed to do nothing but bicker.

This leaves Blake and Elle, the only other two ladies who had relationships with Reid on a more personal level. Perhaps if Elle had stuck around and interacted more with Reid some genuine sparks could have been created, because I think the two had some great interactions that could have developed into a deeper and fuller bond. Unfortunately, Elle's abrupt exit halted those plans, and I'm not sure there'd be enough time in S15 to rekindle that magic. It'd also look like a desperation move too- pair Reid with her simply because he can't have JJ. There's just no winning here.

So, lastly, Blake. She's one of the few people in Reid's life that never treated him as a "sideshow" or the butt to a joke like some of his supposed pals have done and actually seems to respect and maybe even admire Reid on an intellectual and personal level. Arguably, though she's not Reid's peer when it comes to intelligence she's probably very close and her mindset is likely the closest to Reid's, so she gets how he thinks and how he acts. She was also the one that Reid chose to break the news about Maeve, over other "more obvious choices" like Morgan or JJ, and Blake said Reid reminded her about her lost son, Ethan.

That said...we never did see Reid interact with Blake outside of work except when Blake left the team, and I never really got the sense that Reid just saw Blake as anything more than someone he talks to whenever he needs to. He doesn't think of her when he wants to have someone to hang out with and chill with, and she's much older than him anyway. They couldn't relate to each other much with regards to life experiences anyway.

I agree that some of those bonds could feel more parent/child in nature, or sibling-esque, but the fact remains that they are examples of men and women getting on well, be it on a close level or an acquaintance level, without needing to bring romance into the equation. And even setting aside Reid and JJ's respective platonic bonds with the rest of the team, let's look at Emily and Morgan, who were close friends that didn't need to get together. Let's look at the fact that Morgan and Garcia didn't get together, despite the clear fact that, from Garcia's end, at least, she clearly had some deeper feelings for him. Let's look at the close bond between Hotch and Emily, two people that a lot of fans also wanted to see together who never wound up hooking up. 

And so on. Bottom line, if you want examples of men and women being friends on this show, there are no shortage of options here. 

Quote

Then there's the serious moments the two have had together:

When JJ was pregnant a second time, who was the first to know? Reid.

When JJ had her PTSD meltdown in "The Forever People" (an episode I'd rather forget but can't), who was the one person who did all he could to help her through her struggle? Reid.

When Henry dressed up as a member of the BAU for Hallowe'en, who did he pick? Reid.

When Reid was sent to jail, who cried the most and felt the most helpless about the situation? JJ.

When Reid got out of jail, who was the happiest to see him (and first to hug him)? JJ.

When Reid had to confront Cat about his kidnapped mother, who did the BAU send with him to ensure that he doesn't snap when dealing with Cat? JJ.

I could go on and on and on. Truth is, Reid and JJ- especially in the last few seasons- have had a depth to their relationship that they just don't have with anyone else. Reid and JJ are not two people who will talk to each other at work or will occasionally grab a bite to eat outside of work or catch a movie together or even two people who assist each other with dealing with personal problems- they're well beyond that. They're so practically immersed in each other's lives that, if one didn't know any better, you'd think they're brother and sister, people who trust and bond with each other on a level that we rarely- if ever- experience in our own lives.

Reid and JJ weren't just friends or "good friends" or even "best friends". They were beyond that, and, until this episode ruined it, they didn't need the spectre of a romance for that to happen.

And see, all of what you mentioned above is precisely why I can believe they would have deeper, more romantic feelings for each other, and why it's so confusing to me that people are acting like this is coming out of nowhere as a result. I don't think that is proof they're like brother and sister, because a) they don't behave like any brother and sister I've ever seen, and b) some of those moments are so incredibly personal and deep that I don't even know some people would let their siblings be part of them. I think this is proof that they've had feelings that perhaps even they couldn't fully define towards each other for years, and it's a sign of how much they love each other, yes, romantically. 

I also continue to find the "they're like brother and sister" comments strange when you consider one of the most popular theories going into this finale was that JJ would tell Reid Henry was his son. Some people may have said that in jest, yes, but others seemed pretty certain of the idea, which is an odd thought to have if they're so sure these two act like brother and sister. 

Quote

Not to beat a dead horse, but this episode's reveal hurts that relationship on so many levels. Most importantly it's now impossible to look at just how immersed Reid and JJ are with each other without thinking or wondering how much of that is due to a desire for both to get together romantically, as opposed to having, simply, a genuine care for each other.

The prospect of romance leaves this air of "selfishness" on the part of both Reid and JJ (because now at least part of their pursuit of their friendship now includes the selfish desire that they wind up together) and that just leaves me uncomfortable. It's a tired and I'd say culturally toxic trope, because it reinforces the idea that opposite gender relationships must be defined by their gonads when reality can be- and should be- so much more.

Frankly, if somebody needs a TV show to remind them that men and women can just be friends, that says more about that person than it does anything else. 

But I'd also say that just because people acknowledge they have feelings for each other, that doesn't automatically mean they plan to do anything about it, and the fact these two did put their friendship above any feelings they had for each other for all this time is proof that friendships can be just as strong and important. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Annber03

[JMO]

I didn't see any pushing of a JJ/Reid romance in the episode, nor do I expect to see it next year.  I saw a dying declaration of love, made to the object of it.  Had Reid not had the audacity to save both of their lives, that would have been the end of it.  But he did (because he does his best shooting from the floor), and here we are.  Or, rather, here they are.  

I didn't see it coming and, believe it or not, I wasn't all that thrilled with the development.  But I am intrigued.  I think the tension of knowing it will inform their interactions next year.  That has renewed my waning interest in the show, and the characters, 

What's really fascinating is the amount of discussion the episode has created, and how revealing our responses are about our own personal attitudes toward love, romance, commitment and responsibility.  

[Hotchgirl18]

I'm sorry. I must be confused. I thought I was watching "Criminal Minds" NOT " Friends. " Did Ross and Rachel infiltrate the BAU?

[illdoc]

I think that Joy's dress was the most hideous, followed by Penelope's, then Emily's. And while apparently Rossi's only friends are his BAU teammates (and his new wife's only her daughter), I was at least somewhat pleased to see Matthew's wife at the party & Luke's SO at least invited (even if she couldn't come), since, on Hawaii 5-0, no one ever brings their "plus one" to any of the parties (nor even mentions why said partner isn't there).

[ams1001]

On 2/6/2019 at 11:03 PM, Hotchgirl18 said:

No it was the real Mathis. 

I was amused by this because my parents' wedding song was by Johnny Mathis...in 1970.

I hate it when shows have some big personal event and the guests are almost all coworkers. At least get some extras to play family and friends, because I don't believe for a second that Rossi's social circle is really that small.

And that cake was huge.

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

Hummm, you'll excuse me if this seems out of topic, but since it's been said in this very thread that Emily Prentiss would put her career above everything and everyone else, I just thought it wouldn't be inappropriate for me to bring up a few examples to... illustrate that statement. So let's see :

1. When she refused to do Strauss' dirty job to spy on and rat out Hotch (which might have given a  big push to her career or at the very least ensure her place at the BAU), but chose to quit her job instead ("In Name and Blood")

2. When she was given clear instructions to not give anyone in that room any infos about the poison that had already made a few victims, but was ready to disobey Hotch's orders with no hesitation (which would've obviously put her career at risk) because Reid was in danger and she thought the best way to help him was to let people know what was up, protocol be damned. ("Amplification")

3. When she erased Reid's tape confession ( which action I'm sure she knew could come back to bite her in the future and potentially ruin her career) because she couldn't take the risk of letting the prosecution get their hands on it thus finding Reid guilty ("Spencer", if I'm not mistaken)

4. When Linda Barnes asked her to get rid of Rossi and Reid (a "small" sacrifice that would've allowed her to keep her job and might even have advanced her career), and she sort of replied : "Screw you !" instead, despite knowing full well what could happen to her career next. ("Miasma")

I was going to add :

5. When she immediately identified herself as the FBI agent sent to investigate cult leader Benjamin Cyrus and took the beat down of her life at the hands of that unsub (And no, I don't think she knew for sure that he wouln't kill her or even worst, rape her), all so she could protect Reid from being hurt by Cyrus ("Minimal Loss"). Until I realized it wasn't a good example because her career wasn't at stake then, yet the point of this post is precisely to try and establish how Emily Prentiss has proven time after time that "she would put her career over everything and everyone else".

So please disregard this last example. I'll reserve it (and a few others) for when it's time to demonstrate that she would also put her life and safety above everything and everyone else.

P.S. Those are just a few examples at the top of my head. I'm sure I could come up with a few others, but I don't wanna "derail" this thread any longer. 

*** Mission accomplished. Retreats back quietly. ***

Edited February 9, 2019 by SSA Emily Prentiss

[Welcome5431]

The BAU regards hard cover books as too culturally obsolete to investigate now? last week the detective  had a blunder with the unsub's notebook 

This revealing evidence   would have been pivotal to the classical premise of criminal minds.

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

Hummm, you'll excuse me if this seems out of topic, but since it's been said in this very thread that Emily Prentiss would put her career above everything and everyone else, I just thought it wouldn't be inappropriate for me to bring a few examples to... illustrate that statement. So let's see :

1. When she refused to do Strauss' dirty job to spy on and rat out Hotch (which might have given her career a big push or at the very least ensure her place at the BAU), but chose to quit her job instead ("In Name and Blood")

2. When she was given clear instructions to not give anyone in that room any infos about the poison that had already made a few victims, but was ready to disobey Hotch's orders with no hesitation (which would've obviously put her career at risk) because Reid was in danger and she thought the best way to save him was to let people know what was up, protocols be damned. ("Amplification")

3. When she erased Reid's tape confession ( which action I'm sure she knew could come back to bite her in the future and potentially ruin her career) because she couldn't take the risk of letting the prosecution get their hands on it thus finding Reid guilty ("Spencer", if I'm not mistaken)

4. When Linda Barnes asked her to get rid of Rossi and Reid (a "small" sacrifice that would've allowed her to keep her job and might even have advanced her career), and she sort of replied : "Screw you !" instead, despite knowing full well what could happen to her career next. ("Miasma")

I was going to add :

5. When she immediately identified herself as the FBI agent sent to investigate cult leader Benjamin Cyrus' sexual abuse on minor girls and took the beat down of her life at the hands of that unsub (And no, I don't think she knew for sure that he wouln't kill her or even worst, rape her), all so she could turn Cyrus' attention away from Reid and her partner could stay safe ("Minimal Loss"). Until I realized it wasn't a good example, because her career wasn't at stake then and the point of this post is to try and establish how it's been proven time after time that "Emily Prentiss would put her career over everything and everyone else".

So please disregard this last example. I'll reserve it (and a few others") for when it's time to demonstrate that she would also put her life and safety above everything and everyone else.

P.S. Those are just a few examples at the top of my head. I'm sure I could come up with a few others, but I don't wanna "derail" this thread any longer. 

*** Mission accomplished. Retreats back quietly. ***

But REMEMBER! It's OK for HER to disobey orders and go all by herself to chase a terrorist that's "personal" to her. But when Luke Alvez does it, she comes down hard on him like she's better. She's a ginormous hypocrite. 

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

8 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

But REMEMBER! It's OK for HER to disobey orders and go all by herself to chase a terrorist that's "personal" to her. But when Luke Alvez does it, she comes down hard on him like she's better. She's a ginormous hypocrite. 

Yeah, there's that too. So you should've said : "Also REMEMBER!" instead of "But". Lol

Edited February 9, 2019 by SSA Emily Prentiss

[Danielg342]

So I got a lot to digest and respond to. Forgive me if I miss something.

Quickly about Emily- @SweetTooth got what I was trying to say. I'm fully aware she has her maverick tendencies and is more than willing to throw away her job at a moment's notice if it doesn't live up to her expectations. I didn't say that she wouldn't. What I did say is that she is the type that always wants to work- she's not the type who would "take a break", at least not longer breaks like a vacation.

It's a contrast to Reid in that Reid is the type that needs a break, even if he doesn't realize it. Reid's mind is always wanting to explore new things, meaning he can't always focus on one job like Prentiss does.

As for Reid's and JJ's other opposite sex relationships- as I said before, none of them have ever crossed into the territory of the familial, inseparable bond Reid and JJ have. They're the kind of relationships where they might be fond of each other, there might be some caring on a personal level and maybe they'd occasionally hang out, but they're also the kind of relationships Reid and JJ would discard the moment they lose touch with them, even if they might not necessarily mean to.

(Case in point- how many of the BAU members have mentioned they talked to any of the departed team members over the years? I could probably count such instances on one hand. I grant that maybe part of that is because the writers forgot that this stuff would happen but I still think it means something)

As for Messer's words- I read them too, and I don't really trust that's how it will end up. Messer can say all she wants that there won't be a love triangle or a "will they or won't they?" but she can't introduce an angle where one team member declares their love for another without there being a payoff- and I don't know where there can be a payoff that I'd be satisfied with.

If it's all just a swerve so that JJ admits that she just loved him platonically over all these years, then what's the point of making a big deal of her admission in the first place? It should have just been something they laughed off after dealing with the UnSub.

If it leads to a situation where Will gets terminal cancer and thus opens the door for JJ to truly pursue her love with Reid, then it's really nothing but an awkward contrivance. It's really nothing more than spouting that "true love" nonsense that has no basis in real world interactions (some people may have more than one "true love" while others may not find theirs- or even want to find theirs).

It's also a real glurgerific conclusion, in that it trades Will's happiness and his family's happiness for JJ's. Yeah, significant others die all the time, but the impact of those deaths shouldn't be glossed over nor should they be "hoped for" in order for the widower to go for the love they really wanted. How would Will's family feel to learn that JJ never did love her husband and secretly or subconsciously wished he'd die so that she could pursue Reid? There's just no way to present this kind of story without ugly, ugly implications.

Spoiler

It reminds me of the conclusion of How I Met Your Mother, where we learned The Mother actually had a terminal illness and the whole story was revealed to be a case of Ted trying to talk himself out of admitting that he loved Robin all along.

Then there's the coup d'grace, Reid's "ultimate story" that's been hinted at on these boards and even on the show itself- the idea that his life is a tragedy, and that it's not supposed to end happily. It's on this end where we would see Reid develop early dementia or Alzheimer's or get another terminal disease, or Reid dies at the hands of the Chameleon or some other UnSub, as this would force a "what if" kind of introspection. You'd have JJ- at the very least- upset at her loss and now never being able to know if she could have "made it" with Reid, but then you'd have Reid realizing that, again, the woman that he loves he'll never actually be with.

It'd be the easiest way to maintain "the status quo" while providing some actual drama, but it wouldn't be the interesting, engaging kind of drama- it'd be a continuation of the cheap, exploitative, "kick him again", mean kind of drama that the writers have pounded Reid with for too long. There are a lot of people- myself included- who are tired of Reid suffering all the time and just want him to be happy. The show has never understood that good tragedies are the type that provide the audience with a seemingly happy story only for the rug to be pulled from under them at the last minute- those who got through Romeo & Juliet know this feeling first hand.

If the writers wanted tragedy, Hotch's life was built for it and they ran with it, which is why "100" worked. Seeing Foyet take apart Hotch's happy life- all while leaving Hotch helpless to stop him- was what made the tragedy work.

Reid? All he's done is suffer. There's never any moments of real joy that we can point to in his life, even in his backstory with Alexa Lisbon. It would almost feel like his death would be a relief to him, because then his suffering would end, but then it would feel cheap because it makes me wonder why I invested in the character in the first place.

That leaves his death as the culmination of "a very sad story". I already explained in the previous paragraph why that kind of ending would be very unsatisfying, since it makes Reid perpetually weak and makes the audience wonder why they should invest in this character in the first place.

When it comes to JJ...it's meant to be the message that Reid will think, "I had a true love, but I'll never get to experience it". You could say it's "the ultimate tragedy", akin to an "opposite Maeve" where Reid is losing his love because he's losing himself, but it's still a cheap ending. Not just because it's another example of "pathetic Reid" that we wondered why we cared but because it's another example of the glurgerific narrative with Will.

Yes, I would grant that in a scenario where Reid is dying he'd be the sympathetic character and the show wouldn't gloss over his suffering, but it would likely ignore- or gloss over- the feelings Will would have. Will would probably be within his rights to question JJ's commitment to their marriage after witnessing her mourn Reid like she lost a lover, and he'd definitely feel cheated and violated that Reid had been in their lives for all this time simply because JJ had a thing for him (or wanted to placate Reid's feelings for her).

Truth is, Reid's story only works if you're building something about hope- real hope- because that's what Reid is all about. It can't be the kind of "fake hope" where he "dies with dignity" or suffers one last time but still slaps a smile on his face- that just makes his character a pushover. No, you want to see the weakened eventually triumph over those who hold them down, and those who suffer experience the real joy that eluded them their entire lives.

Otherwise, why watch all this suffering in the first place? I guess it's more "real" when that elusive happiness doesn't happen, but it's not satisfying at all. You can't end a series like that, especially one with one of TV's most popular characters.

[MichaelaRae]

That seriously might be the most fanficy thing I've seen on television in YEARS. Gunman forces one partner to reveal his/her true feelings for the other - I swear I read at LEAST five Mulder/Scully versions of this two decades ago. SO not good.

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

6 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

I'm sorry. I must be confused. I thought I was watching "Criminal Minds" NOT " Friends. " Did Ross and Rachel infiltrate the BAU?

Well look at the bright side (my philosophy in life), it's possible that each time JJ was kissing and sexing up her hubby for the last 10 years, she was actually thinking of kissing and sexing up Reid. Way to boost a man's ego (Reid's that is, not poor Will's, lol) ! Once Reid realizes that, he'll never regress to his awkward boyish self ever again. I think it's the first time he will feel like a manly man. Aren't you happy about that ? You'll owe it to SuperJJ !