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S09.E10: Los Diablos!


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Frank meets his match in a fellow participant in the Hobo Loco competition. Fiona has a dark encounter at Patsy’s that scares her into cleaning up her act. Debbie throws herself into home improvements as she gets closer with Kelly. Carl gets a job that is more dangerous than it looks. Lip sees another side of Tami when they spend the day together.

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Original air date: 2/10/19

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Poor Santiago. After everything he’s been through, he had to put up with the twins handcuffing him and beating him up. One of them has the most delightful evil side eye though!

The only reason I care that Fiona was finally (rightfully) fired is that means now there’s more pressure on Debbie, Carl, and Liam to hustle for cash to cover what she would have paid for ther monthly expenses. 

Awww, Xan! I know Lip will want to take care of her but how will he be able to afford to do that without getting another job? I like that the bike shop has given him some stability, but he isn’t going to be able to pick up more money there. 

Loved Liam telling that guy he was 25. And you gotta respect his hustle. If you won’t hire me, can I get some free lemons?

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Fiona has been on a spiral for awhile but she has been very good to the employees at the diner and for them to narc on her is not cool.  As for her confronting the neighbor for Liam that is pure Gallagher.  We may not know much but we know how to throw a party and messing with someone is just a bonus.  I was with her until she crossed the line and punched the woman.  But then that fits with her downward spiral.  

The Debbie stuff was interesting too.  Fixing up all the stuff that has always been overlooked because there were more immediate concerns.  But Debbie is the kind of person who would see fixing the house as something that needs to be done.  Even if I see her demanding Liam's  "pay to stay" as a little over the line;  I do like that she is a lot more hands on with home improvement.

Katey Sagal is always a treat and although I have gotten tired of Frank, Ingrid is fun.

I didn't really care about Carl or Lip's story.   ANd Veronica and Kevin have gotten to the point where it looks like they are on their own boring show.   They need to circle back to the Gallagher hemisphere.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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It’s probably bad that I don’t care about any of the stories. And all of them just seem to be there.

I don’t feel bad for Fiona at all. Especially because it’s clear this is what she is going to keep doing for the rest of the season. Didn’t we do this once with her already? 

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I'm happy to see that Xan came back to Lip because she figured that she would be safe with him.

Debbie accidentally unplugged the gas.  Did anyone actually plug the cable back in?

This HoboLoco thing is so insane.  Clearly Frank and the other guy will be there until the end of the competition.

Liam is Lip 2.0.  He's totally got the brains to succeed, but unlike Lip who can't keep his shit together long enough to break out of the cycle, I think that Liam will.

Isn't Fiona still on parole from the drug situation?  This arrest can't go well for her.

Edited by AEMom
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I am probably one of the few people that do still feel compassion for Fiona.  She sacrificed her entire childhood to take care of her siblings and Frank (yes it was largely her choice but what real choice did she have?  Social services would have separated them all and Debbie and Carl with their issues would probably be worse off.  Ian would have had his psychotic break in the system and people with mental health issues don’t end well). and now that she needs a little support everyone is ignoring her.  I am actually hoping she pulls herself together enough and finally just decides to live for herself and leaves the South Side and see the world on her terms.   That is actually how I want her story to end.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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I don’t feel bad for Fiona at all. Especially because it’s clear this is what she is going to keep doing for the rest of the season. Didn’t we do this once with her already?

Yes, we did. The show has officially run out of new ideas. 

Another wacky Frank scheme, yawn, rinse, repeat. I bet these Hobo Loco people are only using this as a publicity stunt and will end up hiring a professional spokesmodel. 

Debbie's sudden obsession with the house feels very OCD to me. I wonder if we're heading for another bipolar story. Wouldn't surprise me since rehash seems to be the only thing this show has left.

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I can't believe Fiona wasn't fired before.  And I can't believe the rest of the staff put up with her as long as they did.  I don't blame them at all for calling the owner.  She is lucky no one else but her and the cook were around and no one was hurt, raped, killed or otherwise injured from what she did, leaving the money out like that and going in the back. 

And I can't believe she is ruining her life over a basically break even real estate deal and a loser, dull as nails boyfriend who happened to be married.  I too wondered if she is still on parole.  Certainly can't be good for her to be arrested again like this even if she is not.  You know that woman is going to press charges.  Trespassing, assault, inciting a mob

Lip's girlfriend is an annoying bitch.  Doing some old women's hair for free doesn't change that

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9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yes, we did. The show has officially run out of new ideas. 

Another wacky Frank scheme, yawn, rinse, repeat. I bet these Hobo Loco people are only using this as a publicity stunt and will end up hiring a professional spokesmodel. 

Debbie's sudden obsession with the house feels very OCD to me. I wonder if we're heading for another bipolar story. Wouldn't surprise me since rehash seems to be the only thing this show has left.

7 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

I can't believe Fiona wasn't fired before.  And I can't believe the rest of the staff put up with her as long as they did.  I don't blame them at all for calling the owner.  She is lucky no one else but her and the cook were around and no one was hurt, raped, killed or otherwise injured from what she did, leaving the money out like that and going in the back. 

And I can't believe she is ruining her life over a basically break even real estate deal and a loser, dull as nails boyfriend who happened to be married.  I too wondered if she is still on parole.  Certainly can't be good for her to be arrested again like this even if she is not.  You know that woman is going to press charges.  Trespassing, assault, inciting a mob

Lip's girlfriend is an annoying bitch.  Doing some old women's hair for free doesn't change that

Yeah.. I really have no idea what they are doing with Fiona and the reason I don’t feel compassion for her is because as I said and someone quoted me, I felt for her when they did this storyline in season four! Then it made a lot of sense and was a compelling storyline. Now it isn’t. Now she just had a bad buisness deal and found out her boyfriend was married- which btw this relationship was super super deep, is it just me or didn’t it move super fast and a lot of it happened off screen it seems like.   So it’s hard to feel for her when it was a story that was done better before and it happening now doesn’t make sense at all. 

I mean maybe that’s the point for us to not care when she has her last episode because I sure as hell don’t care about her storyline at all.

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My issue isn’t really Fiona being fired by boss lady.  People have been fired for less.   My issue is the people working at the diner  most of them supposedly addicts (at least originally so) narcing on her.  Like she said to them as she left she had been better to them then she had to be.  Them calling her boss to get her fired was all kinds of fucked up.

And I am not sure the woman who called the cops on Liam was racist but she was an asshole.  You move into a neighborhood and call the cops on the neighbors for bullshit charges.  Trust me I have had people like that.  The new people move in and are the ones to make “noise complaints” and call the cops on the prowler who turns out to be the black kid who lives the next block over.   And then complains that your grass hasn’t been mowed. 

Fiona was wrong to hit her.  But she could have found a better way to deal with Liam other then calling the law.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Fiona ultimately did not lose her job though because of her coworkers, even if they did tell her boss. 

As the boss mentioned, vendors, customers and others were calling and complaining about her as well.  And what finally did it was Fiona herself called 911, forgot she did it and closed the "24 hour diner" for hours, which the owner found out.  That is what prompted her to be fired.  The final straw, yes, but it wasn't anything her coworkers did.  That was all on Fiona for screwing up at night while counting the money, being drunk at work, closing a 24 hour diner and then falling asleep after doing so. 

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I don’t feel bad for Fiona at all. Especially because it’s clear this is what she is going to keep doing for the rest of the season. Didn’t we do this once with her already? 

Like real life alcoholics. It can come back unexpectedly and their loved ones have to suffer with them all over again. REminds me of Denis Leary's character on Rescue Me. By the end of that show it was just exhausting and played out. Especially because they still kept trying to make it like Tommy was some sort of great hero. He was no better than anyone else on the crew.
I am so over addiction storylines in the dramas I watch. I've got to stop getting sucked in when I know there's going to be that sort of character. The arc never leads anywhere positive.

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I think the root of Fiona is that she feels screwed, and she's starting to slip into a mindset that she'll always end up screwed. She bought a property, put in the elbow grease and got screwed out of her equity. She's raised the kids, makes one (admittedly big) mistake and ends up in jail. She finally finds a guy who she thinks she can trust, who takes her seriously, and he turns out to be a cheating liar who lies.  This on the heels of almost getting married to another lying liar who lies. 

As for Patsy's, she works hard, increases traffic and profit, and takes over when their junkie manager leaves. She gives people a second chance, and they're quick to shit on her when they get the chance. And she begged and pleaded to keep her job, and she was still fired with no warning, no conversation, nothing. 

And, of course she was almost gang raped.

Now, it's common for people to look at humans and characters and say they should just get over their troubles. They should look at the bright side, admit their mistakes and move on. But I think Fiona is realizing her own deep-seated (and maybe self-fulfilling) belief that things actually CAN'T get better. That she's stuck on the south side for the rest of her life. This isn't uncommon for abused/neglected kids -- they think themselves unlovable; they think life is a collection fo unavoidable suck, because it's always been unavoidable suck. This is a problems in America because it's deep in the American psyche that you OUGHT to be able to rise above your circumstances. it's the basis of a lot of our literature, and it's almost Jungian in the way we all accept it. So if Fiona keeps trying and failing -- at business, at love, at stability -- she must be the fuck up. And if you tell yourself a fuck up enough -- and the world keeps telling you your'e a fuck up -- eventually you start to believe it. I think that's where Fiona is now -- she's buying into what she's been told all her life-- she's a Gallagher (the product of a crazy person and a drunk), she's unloveable (she's been left, lied to and deceived), and she's undeserving of either understanding or a second chance. And whatever she does, -- not matter how hard she trees, no matter how hard she works -- at the end of the say she'll end up screwed. 

Which is why (IMO, no spoiler or inside info) Jimmy's coming back. He's a rogue, but he'll give her the chance to leave again,. And this time she'll take it. I hope. Because I adore the character, and want the best for her. 

On other notes, I liked Tami, although I think her about-face has been pretty quick. She might be grounded just enough to get Lip out of the South Side -- looking back, Amanda was too far away -- her whole life was different, and I doubt Lip could have ever really pulled it off. Karen and Mandy were too much of the same place he's been. Tami might be the bridge he needs -- not to leap out of the South Side, but to maybe take a step or two. 

I do hope they bring in a plumber to fix the gas line. We've already had one house explode on this show -- not sure we need another. 

Edited by whiporee
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I love this show but some seasons I tune out because WTF...Deja Vu...whaaaat??

Kevin and V already have a son.  If I remember correctly V’s mom gave birth to him at the same time Las Diablas were born.

It would have been better to revisit this storyline and see what happened to the mom and the son. 

Or, if they were going to foster a migrant kid.....well, now he is gone! WTF? 

How do you foster a kid and then find his biological family in all of 3 episodes? 

Also, that actor kid has played the same ‘migrant kid’ character in 3 shows/movies.  Time for another actor because it  is getting confusing.

I think for the storyline it would have been interesting if Kevin spoke some Spanish since he grew up in the multiracial environment of foster care system.

Here we go...Again!  Another geriatric pregnancy.  10 babies.  North Korean doctor.  Ex husband. And, Frank is secretly  the Grandpa! Geeeesh! 

We haven’t seem much of Franny this season.  Every week it is Debbie asking people for money. 

Debbie and Fiona also do not seem to have a relationship.......when Fiona is literally her mother.  

I am glad Fiona is going to jail.  I get the real life gentrification issues, but WTF?  It was not a racist act.  The police told Liam to stay away from her house and sell the lemonade down the block.

I live in a small gated community. Kids have played in my front yard.  Reluctantly, I have told them to move along after waiting too long to see if they would go away on their own.  But, if you have dogs....then you know exactly why I had to tell the kids to move along. My dogs start barking uncontrollably. 

Nobody likes loud  kids playing out front causing commotion inside their house.

Edited by Dance4Life
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"fiona is literally her mother"? did i miss something?

i do agree about the kids setting up a lemonade stand in front of the house, and playing loud music on top of it. although, it could have been handled much better. no need to get the cops involved .

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33 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

"fiona is literally her mother"? did i miss something?

i do agree about the kids setting up a lemonade stand in front of the house, and playing loud music on top of it. although, it could have been handled much better. no need to get the cops involved .

Monica is the mom for all the kids.  She even left Liam with them who is obviously not Frank’s kid. Fiona raise them all like her own.  This is what I mean.  Fiona is literally Debbie’s mom.  

The dysfunctional family bond feel...... is gone this season. This is the core of the show. Storylines all over the place.

The lady did tell them they were not welcome to hang out in front of her house when she arrived home. But, she cannot expect paradise in cheap  gentrified real estate. 

This is why she called the cops which only works in nice neighborhoods.

In rough neighborhoods they tend not to call the cops (as they are criminals themselves) and handle the problem on their own.

This was the meaning of Fiona calling a block party with the original neighbors. To let her know she will not be calling the cops or shots in THEIR neighborhood.  

Fiona’s  real anger is with gentrification and others with more money like this lady taking advantage of people like her.

The disadvantaged, poorly educated and those that never get a break despite trying.

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3 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

Monica is the mom for all the kids.  She even left Liam with them who is obviously not Frank’s kid.

If memory serves, Liam IS Frank's child, but Ian is not. Monica is the mother of all the Gallagher children.

Edited by AEMom
Added the clarification that Monica is everyone's mom
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1 hour ago, Dance4Life said:

Fiona’s  real anger is with gentrification and others with more money like this lady taking advantage of people like her.

I also think there was an element of the woman doing what Fiona had tried and failed to do, as well. Fiona was perfectly cool with gentrification, but to her it always seems that it's always other people who get the benefits. She tried to gentrify the neighborhood -- ended up at war with her brother -- and in the end it's outsiders who reap the rewards for it. I can see how that would be frustrating. 

Also, Fiona was drunk, had had a shitty day and was raging for a fight. 

The woman was out of line -- and the look on her face when Fiona said Liam was her brother clearly spelled out that her motivation was being uncomfortable about black kids in front of her house -- but Fiona was fighting a lot more at that moment than her. 

I was thinking about this earlier, but I think Shameless really handles race well because it treats everything as matter of fact. The guys at the bar, Kev and Vee having the discussion about different browns, the way that Liam's race is never mentioned in the family. It all may sound ignorant, but it's at least a discourse instead of people making talking point after talking point without actually ignoring it. It may not be high-minded conversation, but it does show people unafraid of actually talking, and I like that about it. 

I also want to point out that as much as the season's have drifted from what the original storyline was, all of the acting has improved. Those kids -- and for the most part they are all kids -- do a pretty good job with some difficult roles. That's a benefit of nine seasons -- you do get to see actors develop and characters become more nuanced. for all the show's faults, I'm glad it's coming back because I like these people. 

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1 hour ago, AEMom said:

If memory serves, Liam IS Frank's child, but Ian is not.

Liam is Frank’s child with a black  woman?  What happened to Liam’s mom?

If Ian turned out not be Frank’s kid.  I missed those episodes. 

My favorite time during Shameless was when that lady with agoraphobia was on! Hahahahaha! She was so much fun to watch. (Joan Cusack)

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1 minute ago, Dance4Life said:

Liam is Frank’s child with a black  woman?  What happened to Liam’s mom?

Liam is Frank and Monica's kid, just like the rest of them save Ian (Ian is Frank's brother's kid with Monica, because, you know, Monica). Frank told the story that his grandmother had talked about having a black lover, and apparently the genes showed up in Liam but nowhere else.

This all popped up early -- maybe season 1 -- when Monica appeared with her current lover, an African American female trucker. They planned to take Liam because Frank had no paternity to him, but it turned out that Frank was, int eh end, Liam's father. 

I don't know enough about genetics to know whether skin pigmentation can skip a generation or two and then just appear, but that was the story we were told at the time.  

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35 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I don't know enough about genetics to know whether skin pigmentation can skip a generation or two and then just appear, but that was the story we were told at the time.  

It can happen.  There was a movie based on a true story about this very thing happening to a South African family during the apartheid era (Skin)

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

The woman was out of line -- and the look on her face when Fiona said Liam was her brother clearly spelled out that her motivation was being uncomfortable about black kids in front of her house --

That woman was completely out of line and knew exactly what she was doing.  She didn't care that she was potentially putting those kids lives in danger simply for selling lemonade because she's entitled and privileged.  However, Fiona definitely crossed a line in jumping her fence and laying her ass out, no matter how much she deserved it.  

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I thought the story Liam selling lemonade and the women falling the police was sort of a reference to what has been happening with people calling the police on different races for not doing anything illegal like having a bbq or something. It was happening a lot this past summer I believe. But yes the women was out of like, but Fiona hitting her was not the answer either. 

And yes I know the other workers at the diner are all addicts but Fiona was causing disturbances left and right and making bad choices. Even if the workers weren’t calling about her, apparently people who ate there were, as were vendors. Not to mention that like Eliza said, Fiona chose to leave money out as she went into the back office. That was kind of stupid of her.  And I go back and forth on if she was drunk and she called 911 about the the guys and forgot or if she just didn’t want her boss to know that she did all that and was trying to cover up the fact that she locked up the diner. I’m not sure what the story was. Either way none of it is good. But no Fiona brought that on herself and like others.. I’m not sure why? Because she lost her building? Or because her boyfriend who she seemed to barley tolerate on a good day was actually married with a kid? That guy? It’s hard to see how he was so invested with someone when I have to point out again, seems like most of that relationship happened off screen but I digress.

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17 hours ago, whiporee said:

I think the root of Fiona is that she feels screwed, and she's starting to slip into a mindset that she'll always end up screwed. She bought a property, put in the elbow grease and got screwed out of her equity. She's raised the kids, makes one (admittedly big) mistake and ends up in jail. She finally finds a guy who she thinks she can trust, who takes her seriously, and he turns out to be a cheating liar who lies.  This on the heels of almost getting married to another lying liar who lies. 

As for Patsy's, she works hard, increases traffic and profit, and takes over when their junkie manager leaves. She gives people a second chance, and they're quick to shit on her when they get the chance. And she begged and pleaded to keep her job, and she was still fired with no warning, no conversation, nothing. 

She really had to know she couldn't keep her job the way she was acting though.  I would disagree it was without warning and she wasn't given "Second chances" like the others.  She was given like 10 chances and kept screwing up more and more in a major way.  I can't believe she wasn't fired before it happened.  She was grossly negligent in her duties in multiple ways, was drunk on the job, yelling at customers.......this was no surprise to anyone but her.  The other person that took over her job gave her many clues and many chances I thought.  Yes it is realistic the way she acted for an addict, so the portrayal is not inaccurate, and she may perceive as being fired with "no warning", but anyone could see this coming for weeks. 

She made more than "one" mistake to end up in jail.  She was screwing her boss and then screwing her bosses junkie brother on top of that, that was the lead up to ending up in jail.  She actually had a good job and a chance to make something of it, she screws it up

In fact that seems to be the recurring theme with her and Lip at least.  Yes there are addiction issues, but they are given chances and for a time can make things work in those opportunities, but in the end, they screw it all up, usually by their own faults, whether those faults are inbred addiction issues or their own screwed upbringing coming out and influencing their behavior.  But its not like no one warns them or gives them chances before it all comes tumbling down.  They view it as all unfair and out of nowhere maybe, but to the outsider, and as the viewer, we see it as pretty obvious where things are headed. 

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6 hours ago, Dee said:

This is the meltdown Fiona should've had after Sean.

Yes exactly, that would make more sense.  Not after breaking up with some boring as shit, dull boyfriend, finding out he is married.  They really had nothing in common and weren't that well suited for each other anyway

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1 hour ago, DrSpaceman said:

Yes exactly, that would make more sense.  Not after breaking up with some boring as shit, dull boyfriend, finding out he is married.  They really had nothing in common and weren't that well suited for each other anyway

Yup, I agree. I didn’t like her relationship with Sean either but it made more sense for her to have a meltdown over him than this guy. As I keep saying, most of this relationship seemed to have happen off screen/ in between seasons. And she was that in love with him? What? I’m sorry. This downward spiral does not make sense at all.

And as much as they keep trying to bring it back to her losing her apartment building and whatever she was doing, at the end of it, to me, they’re still having it go back to that stupid guy in a way. And really... this guy? How long were they even together? I ask because again.. doesn’t anyone else feel it happened off screen? 

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I think the problem with Kev and Vee is that they're very ignorant and they chose to bring kids into this world, and they choose to associate with kids and to try to teach them, and they are remarkably bad parents/role models. Kev is at least very stupid.  I don't know what Vee's excuse is.  All I know is that they missed the boat big time when they let Svetlana out of their lives.  She was sharp, and she is missed.  

I find Fiona as ignorant and odious as Vee, but Fiona didn't really choose kids.  She kind of had these kids foisted upon her, so I give her a little bit more leeway.  Her sense of entitlement is off the charts though.  I'll never forget when Liam overdosed on the cocaine that she allowed in the house, and she kept insisting how she was not guilty, because she didn't let Liam do the coke on purpose.  

I am not sure I read as much into the lemonade stand/let's go bash some heads in showdown.  I think the woman should have called the cops, because there is no telling what a person will do (Exhibit A for the people: Fiona).  I know that if I ever saw an altercation outside my house, I would call the cops.  That's why I pay tax dollars.  So that I don't have to go outside and tell some guy to stop screaming at his girlfriend, only to get my teeth slapped out of my mouth for trying to help.  It's easy to say "don't call the cops" since we know Liam.  This neighbor didn't know a thing about Liam.  I ain't fucking around with strangers.  I don't know about y'all.

I don't really credit the show with "talking about" what is sometimes viewed as a taboo topic if all they are saying is nonsensical drivel.  Sometimes I find "dialogues" to be highly overrated. 

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Think you're being overly harsh on Vee and Kev. They may be ignorant, but they make efforts to take care of their kids, and even if you disliked the immigration storyline, they did make an effort help people who needed help. Kev may be stupid, but he's also been shown to have a good and caring heart, and that goes a lot farther than always having the right thing to day. 

Likewise with Fiona, because ai don't get entitled from her at all. As I said above, I think she's worked hard to raise kids that weren't hers, and has perpetually done her best to improve all the lives of all of them. She made a mistake with Liam, but it was a mistake of carelessness, not malice, and she paid a price for it. She paid a price for trying to start her party company, she paid a price for sleeping with Mike's brother, she paid a price for trusting Sean and for trusting whoever the carpenter was. I don't think you can find a single example of Fiona doing something even remotely shady and not paying a price for it. I don't think she feels like she's entitled to more, but she -- like any of us -- just wants what is fair out of life. She works hard, she makes mistakes, but she seems to pay extreme prices for them. 

When you say she was right. to call the cops, do you mean call them on Liam or call them when the crowd developed? because calling them on Liam was just crap. She doesn't own the sidewalk, she doesn't own the street. They were doing nothing to affect her property at all; she just didn't like two black kids being in a public space they had every right to be. public spaces, like streets and sidewalks, belong to no individual. If you want to make the case she felt threatened by the crowd, maybe, but in reality she doesn't own the streets, either. Folks are allowed to congregate, whether she appreciates the reason or not. No-one was doing anything to her at all except being outside her windows on a public street. They're allowed, and nothing accelerated until she came out with her phone, making her little video to post and calling the police.  And she chose to move into the South Side, to an area that was in the process of being gentrified but isn't quite there yet. There are bad things that come with being an early adopter, too, and despite her perfectly legal attempts to isolate herself from the neighborhood she chose to live in (with the fence and the gate), everyone else has rights, too. The right to peaceably assemble is a part o American life, even if they sometimes aren't what you want to hear. 

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1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I am not sure I read as much into the lemonade stand/let's go bash some heads in showdown.  I think the woman should have called the cops, because there is no telling what a person will do (Exhibit A for the people: Fiona).  I know that if I ever saw an altercation outside my house, I would call the cops.

What altercation was occurring when Liam and his friends were selling lemonade?  Calling the cops on them was a reach.  

54 minutes ago, whiporee said:

When you say she was right. to call the cops, do you mean call them on Liam or call them when the crowd developed? because calling them on Liam was just crap. She doesn't own the sidewalk, she doesn't own the street. They were doing nothing to affect her property at all; she just didn't like two black kids being in a public space they had every right to be. public spaces, like streets and sidewalks, belong to no individual.

Exactly!

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I agree her calling the cops on Liam and his friends was ridiculous. Even the cop knew this  and said as much. The block party stuff is a grey issue at least until Fiona hit the woman. And I say it’s a grey issue because the woman could call the cops but it seems like in a neighborhood like the one in the Southside she is currently living in this noise complaint would be a nothing point. It’s the Southside! This is probably just a Monday night. But crossing the line is hitting someone and Fiona is an adult. You can’t just hit people because they’re terrible awful people. Sorry. 

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I will just answer all here, since we are pretty much discussing the same scene. 

I always thought the kids were natural actors and all did a great job telling their stories. The show is really good but it goes through its crazy WTF periods.

I totally think popping out a black kid out of the blue happens all the times..... at least in my culture. It is more common the other way, though. This is how you get Latin people like myself.  I already told my husband. You  get what I pop out even if it doesn’t look like us! Hahahahaha! When I took my ancestry test, I have DNA from 25 different countries. As long as my kid looks like it belongs in one of those 25 countries, I am all good! 

I was thinking about the lemonade scene IRL. 

I think y’all make more sense. Especially since this season is on triple time! How it went from a noise nuisance to.....you are a racist bitch fight and a quick arrest.

Debbie is going to leave Fiona in jail to rot.  Debbie has bills to pay! 

They need to slow their roll. This show used to fun to watch. We hardly see the twins and I want to see cuteness.  The episode writers were specially hard on them.  They were practically labeled Las Diablas (devil-child) and violent racists. WTF??? 

Does anyone know if this is the last season of Shameless?

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18 hours ago, whiporee said:

Think you're being overly harsh on Vee and Kev. They may be ignorant, but they make efforts to take care of their kids, and even if you disliked the immigration storyline, they did make an effort help people who needed help. Kev may be stupid, but he's also been shown to have a good and caring heart, and that goes a lot farther than always having the right thing to day. 

Likewise with Fiona, because ai don't get entitled from her at all. As I said above, I think she's worked hard to raise kids that weren't hers, and has perpetually done her best to improve all the lives of all of them. She made a mistake with Liam, but it was a mistake of carelessness, not malice, and she paid a price for it. She paid a price for trying to start her party company, she paid a price for sleeping with Mike's brother, she paid a price for trusting Sean and for trusting whoever the carpenter was. I don't think you can find a single example of Fiona doing something even remotely shady and not paying a price for it. I don't think she feels like she's entitled to more, but she -- like any of us -- just wants what is fair out of life. She works hard, she makes mistakes, but she seems to pay extreme prices for them. 

When you say she was right. to call the cops, do you mean call them on Liam or call them when the crowd developed? because calling them on Liam was just crap. She doesn't own the sidewalk, she doesn't own the street. They were doing nothing to affect her property at all; she just didn't like two black kids being in a public space they had every right to be. public spaces, like streets and sidewalks, belong to no individual. If you want to make the case she felt threatened by the crowd, maybe, but in reality she doesn't own the streets, either. Folks are allowed to congregate, whether she appreciates the reason or not. No-one was doing anything to her at all except being outside her windows on a public street. They're allowed, and nothing accelerated until she came out with her phone, making her little video to post and calling the police.  And she chose to move into the South Side, to an area that was in the process of being gentrified but isn't quite there yet. There are bad things that come with being an early adopter, too, and despite her perfectly legal attempts to isolate herself from the neighborhood she chose to live in (with the fence and the gate), everyone else has rights, too. The right to peaceably assemble is a part o American life, even if they sometimes aren't what you want to hear. 

Agree to disagree about Kev and Vee--maybe I'll start giving them an iota of respect when they take an iota of responsibility for Dominique, Kev's other son, but we'll have to see. 

I was referring to the woman--about whom we know nothing--calling the cops about the lemonade stand, just to clarify.  When they first showed the lemonade stand, I said to my husband that I thought there was an unspoken rule that you only operate lemonade stands in front of your own home.  This wasn't a racial thing until Fiona, pissed off at the world and completely hammered, made it one.  There is no evidence from the show that the woman wouldn't have called the cops if the kids were albino, so I'm really not going to pursue the line of thought of an angry drunk.  

I also said that Fiona has a sense of entitlement, not that she's entitled.  Just right off the top of my head, I can list several examples:  her thinking that she didn't belong in jail for Liam ingesting the coke because she didn't do it on purpose (which is so beside the point), her thinking she call yell at people at Patsy's when she's drunk, thinking she's entitled to dictate to Ian how he should handle his criminal defense, thinking she can demand that Deb get an abortion when Deb already told Fiona she wouldn't saddle her with Frannie, her treatment of her husband both with the cheating and the ring, thinking she is entitled to steal Ford's toolbox, et cetera.  Just because someone pays a price doesn't mean they don't have a sense of entitlement.  It's apples and oranges to me.  If I think I'm entitled to someone's car, so I take it, and I get thrown in jail, and then when I get out, I think I'm entitled to live in somone's beach house, so I squat there until I get caught...yeah, I've got whopping sense of entitlement.  It almost makes it worse if I pay a price and I still don't learn IMO.

I will kindly ask you to direct your comments at the show, not at me, and please refrain from characterizing me as someone who doesn't want to hear about freedom of assembly.  Thank you.  I am one of the biggest First Amendment proponents I can fathom.  However, there are time, place, and manner restrictions on speech and assembly, especially when it is commercial speech and/or assembly.  It was probably a violation of a local ordinance to open and operate a commercial venture on a residential street.  The children were blocking the woman's ingress and egress.  Do I think it is a triable offense?  No.  I would call the cops so that they could tell the kids to "move it along" just because I don't like to confront people.  My dad is a retired NYC cop and he has told me that there are people who will just hit you right in the face and bust out your teeth with no or almost no provocation, so...I'm not standing up to anyone if I can just dial a number and have the situation dealt with.  Aside from the physical, I simply don't want to get into words with strangers either.  It's not my MO.  Before we got married, my husband and I lived in Florida and our neighbors below were being really loud after 1 am.  He calmly went down and asked them to be quieter, and the young women started screaming that he better get off their property when he was nowhere near their property.  The property manager told us after the fact that we just should have called the police instead of having a confrontation.  So...long story short...everyone comes at these things with their own perspective and experience.  If we are just projecting onto this woman, maybe she tried to confront people in her past, and people have told her she was wrong, and that she'd better call the police from now on.

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@Dee, I think Kev, especially, needs to take responsibility for Dominique because I think that all children should have a male and female role model, based on the empirical evidence that children turn out best this way.  Kev is the actual father.  There is no evidence from the show that Dominique was going to have a male role model, so I think Kev should have stepped up to fill that role.  

I have said in a past post that I don't think the parents and grandparents should disclose to the kids what their actual relationship is, because it would be too weird, but if Kev wants to throw around a ball or have a man-to-man chat, he has a son with whom to do that, even if he's only "Uncle Kev" to the son or something.

I think Vee has a responsibility, because she put a lot of pressure on her mom to get impregnated in the first place.  Her mom would never have had the baby if it wasn't for Vee.  I don't get the impression that Vee's mom is especially rich, so I am saying that Vee can kick in some money for daycare tuition or a bicycle for the kid that she had a great hand in bringing into this world before she gives charity to additional children.  

I just think it's such a character flaw that Kev was going to step up and take care of someone's kid whom he didn't even know was his when his wife showed up, and Kev took this big stand against Vee that he was going to take care of "his" kid, regardless of what Vee thought, without even ensuring it was his kid.  He was even talking about putting his wife in an apartment.  I thought that was a total betrayal of Vee.  Now he has a kid that he does know is his, and he pays the kid dust.  It's not fair to my mind.

That's just how I view it.  I think I hate Kev pretty much the most, because he went from being this cool season 2 guy who was nonjudgmental who could give Lip advice on Mandy and move it along, and now he is just a cartoon character.  I hate Vee for enabling him.  I was never more happy than the season when she left him because he put her on the back burner because he couldn't let a freaking baby cry in a crib for a few moments. Now that they're back together, I guess I hate them together, so I criticize them a lot.  I thought Vee was so much better off without him.

If Vee's mom comes on the show and says that she wants Kev and Vee to have nothing to do with Dominique, I would revise my opinion, but I haven't seen it yet.

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Carol is the one who wanted to raise Dominique by herself. Kevin wanted to keep him, and Veronica (ever the pushover) would've likely let him.

But once Carol made it clear how attached she was to the baby, Kev & Vee (already worried about caring for the twins they were expecting) rather graciously stepped away.

And to Carol's credit, up until a couple of seasons ago, kept Dom in Kev & Vee's orbit.

Edited by Dee
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On 2/12/2019 at 7:55 AM, DrSpaceman said:

Yes exactly, that would make more sense.  Not after breaking up with some boring as shit, dull boyfriend, finding out he is married.  They really had nothing in common and weren't that well suited for each other anyway

Nah. I see it differently. This time Fiona thought she was getting out -- out of the Gallagher's house-- out of the old hood and making something of herself. She was a business woman/property owner on her way up -- and then - wham! back down in the dirt. Stomp! Stomp!

After she lost it all and she was sitting in the lawn chair in the front yard drinking right out of the bottle -- she cried and said --"Back at the Gallagher's" << that right there said it all.

Ford has nothing really to do with this new downfall-- except he is just another of her shitty men who treated her like shit. She has a knack for finding men similar to Frank.

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