S03.E10: Chapter Forty-Five: The Stranger

[Bort]

Quote

With SATs around the corner, Alice and FP urge Jughead and Betty to stop investigating G&G and start focusing on their SAT prep. However, when Alice takes things one step too far, Betty is forced to come face-to-face with someone from her past. Finally, Jughead makes a bold move against the Gargoyle Gang.

Airdate: Wednesday, January 23, 2019

[NeenerNeener]

So  Archie didn't just live through The Revenant, he also lived through Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yup. Archie “died” and this show is trying to make it into a meta thing. Which ugh. But also I’m sorry again.. this is such a lame cliffhanger they played last episode.

Also Archie is back. A lot of fanfare, but yay a nice Fred and Archie scene.

Also.. Varchie has a good reunion. Also they kiss. And more? 

And a core four scene. Kind of nice. I’m sure we won’t get many more of these, but I’m glad we did.

I’m sorry Alice is such a bitch. She’s giving away bettys money away now? After trapping her in SOQM. Why is she still here?!?! 

I’m glad hiram made that remark about not hurting either Archie or Jughead. He was somewhat behind the goulhies and Penny’s attack on Jughead. I’m glad the show remembered it.

Also Archie should repeat junior year. They probably all should. They haven’t really schooled in a while.

 

So Veronica didn’t tell reggie? Ha. That makes me laugh. Also what is “got together”? Did they sleep together? If they just kissed, it shouldn’t do something to their relationship. 

 

So.. did Alice forge Hals name or did she get someone else to do it? Like Edgar? 

Love hiram just deciding who’s Sheriff. 

Aw the gang trying to tutor Archie. Also the forehead kiss. Adorable. 

Barchie scene. Kind of cute. 

So.. is Fangs going nuts? So Hiram and his people are in cohorts with the king. Well we knew that. 

Also I knew they were going to give Archie a party. And Veronica is singing to him in Spanish but he’s having flashbacks if his issues. 

 

Betty is going to see Hal. I’m not sure how I feel about this. Yup. Alice forged Hal’s name. But also are we saying Hal is involved with the g and g king? Spare me, please. Hal as a killer still makes no sense.

Also I’m sorry Reggie needs to back the hell off. Freaking out is actually normal for Archie. Reggie is a sucky friend, actually. Like terrible. And I’m supposed to root for Veggie. He’s awful. 

So hiram wants to buy the mental asylum and make it his home? He probably wants to buy it because the king wants him to, right? Like the king will visit him or something there? Also love Hermione not wanting to make Claudis Sheriff. Hey is she going to do actually do something!

Also I Hope betty didn’t give the real manual to Hal. That would be dumb.  Also of course Hal was at the night of acension where all the parents as teens went nuts. So.. Hal was the king? But now it’s someone else? Of course he was.

Also of course Alice is visiting Hal. 

So Archie is getting rid of all his stuff because he isn’t Archie anymore. Whatever. I’m already over this storyline now too.

So fangs is going to meet the guy.. probably not. So they burn people with the marks of the king and then kill them? Also Tall Boy is back..? Really?

 

Oh so Tall boy is the one who broke into the Cooper house. Of course it can’t be Alice even though Alice has done some terrible things. And still does so.

So Alice is not visiting Hal.

So honestly I was meh on Varchie or Veggie, and I still am, but I think I’m learning towards Varchie this episode and I don’t even like them all that much . I just don’t like Reggie. And I think he’s a jerk and it probably doesn’t help that I don’t care much for CM so there’s no love lost for me there on that. Also knew Reggie was going to be the one who told Archie about what happened. So.. it was more than a kiss. It has to be. It seems like that’s what they’re saying.

Also Jarchie friendship scenes! And coming up with a plan to smoke out hiram.

Penalope is.. because she is still in love with Hal. Ew. Why? Also she’s the one spilling the beans about g and g and all that stupid stuff.

And Hal is making it up . Because he wants to keep seeing Betty. Ugh. That is pretty gross actually. 

So Hiram sent Sheriff. Why? Because Hiram isn’t stupid. Hiram knows things.

So veronica  wants to break up with Archie because she got tired. But Archie is fine with it? I mean.. this scene is sad. Also yeah I think firmly in the Varchie camp because I’m really not into Veggie. 

 

SAT time. So Archie just decides to leave. Because he’s so dark now. Also punching a mirror. Yup. Getting right to the cliches. 

And someone shoots Hiram! Finally.

Also.. of course Alice have bettys money to the farm and they are thanking her.

Also Veronica thinks Archie shot Hiram? Okay she sucks too. She’s truly awful too. I now hope Reggie is working with Hiram and screwing her over. 

Also great now we have Fangs and Sweet Pea committing murder? That’s.. great, show. 

 

Another Fred and Archie scene. And look I get Archie has gone though so much stuff but so has Betty and Jughead. And they’ve gotten through it. I don’t know if I can watch emo Archie.

So did Claudius kill himself or did someone else?

”time for what?”

Ugh no Betty! Please don’t talk to hal. This makes me sad. God I hope they don’t bring dark Betty back. This makes me so uncomfortable for a lot of reasons, I remember some of the things the dark Hood said to Betty and in letters. It was creepy.

Ugh Veggie Sorry. This episode proved I don’t like either of them. 

What is Jugheads plan? A party? For.. what? Huh? I don’t get it. 

Also Hermione made FP Sheriff? Huh? What? Again I do

And archies getting a drinking problem. Yup. Cause we all wanted that. 

Seriously.. this show. I like few and few characters each and every week. I kind of only like three right now. 

I liked parts of this episode but other Things I’m not into. This episode was a mixed bag.

[Advance35]

Episode Thoughts.  

I swear, Veronica in some ways, is my spirit animal.  If I have a guy with muscle tone, he is "working" morning, noon and night too.

Veronica in a Emmy Award Winning Dress singing a song in Spanish, in a place called Riverdale. BWAHAHA.  She's more grounded then certain other parts of Riverdale but in her own way the girl is 3 quarters crazy.  The writers have turned her character into a do gooder, sometimes, far to much for my liking, but every once and a while, they let her inner "Me, Glorious Me" out.

One thing I noticed.  Veronica comes off as very childish compared to the rest of the core four.  And it's not her level of intelligence, she's cultured and refined in a lot of ways.   And while she's certainly NOT innocent, she comes off as less worldly then the other 3, when (considering her past of cocaine, therapy and carnal experience) she might, on paper, be considered more worldly?

It also showed that Veronica really isn't ONE of them.  That whole study session.  I wonder if the writers will examine how solitary Veronica really is.  And just who she will spend time with now that Archie/Veronica have imploded.

I think it's clear Archie is the first guy Veronica has ever REALLY cared about.  But you can see the difference their formative years have had on them.  Archie (dumb as a post he may be) cares about others and even when disappointed and hurt, I didn't doubt for a second, he hated seeing Veronica in tears.   The fact that he would come to the hospital, shows she mean't/means a lot to him.  While I think Veronica is capable of genuine and DEEP compassion for others, you see how Hiram and Hermione have raised her to think of herself first.

On the other hand It was clear Reggie has become really attached to Veronica and he resented Archie being back.  I think it was an accident, him spilling the beans but at the same time, he didn't seem all broke up with remorse.  If Veronica hadn't broken up with Archie, I think Reggie would have been plotting how to break them up anyway.  He didn't wait a minute before showing up with flowers and balloons for Veronica.

I wish they had allowed Veronica scenes where she was more conflicted about turning on her father, to show him being shot would effect her.  I can hand wave it, but I shouldn't have to.  They only allowed Hiram and Veronica one scene of real nuance this season.  It was during that vignette episode.

In other news, Hermione has made FP Sheriff.  He is going to be the law and order in Riverdale???  Rules are going to be for everyone other than his Serpent rabble.

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I’m pretty over Veronica as a character. I hope Reggie is using her as I said. And yeah it should be interesting to see who aligns with who now. I’m thinking she may even lose her serpent security for her speakeasy. And she can go back to her family’s clutches. And everyone can get that bitch Veronica I’ve heard a few people want from the comics. 

Also I really hate them having Betty talking to Hal. This isn’t going to end good for her and she’s probably not going to tell anyone she’s talking I him and that makes me uneasy. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[jay741982]

God when Will Betty tell her mother to fuck off and that's she a horrible POS Mother. The Bitch gave her Tuition money to a fucking Cult. Nice Veronica thinking Archie shot your dad and if he had so What? Hiram is A POS who you should be surprised hasn't been shot more than Once.  Hal is Gross and Pyschotic so no surprise about his actions or that Penelope has a thing for serial killers. Also I wonder if Hermonie actually had Hiram shot possibly by FP?

[Advance35]

Quote

Also I really hate them having Betty talking to Hal. This isn’t going to end good for her and she’s probably not going to tell anyone she’s talking I him and that makes me uneasy. 

For me, my feelings towards Betty, mirror your's towards Veronica.  That she could talk to Hal at all, after he brutally murdered (in horror movie fashion) a number of people, well, it doesn't matter.

I'll be interested in what this show is going to look like in an episode or two.  Who will be spending time with whom and why.  Well mainly Hermione and Veronica.  The others don't matter to me.

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

God when Will Betty tell her mother to fuck off and that's she a horrible POS Mother. The Bitch gave her Tuition money to a fucking Cult. Nice Veronica thinking Archie shot your dad and if he had so What? Hiram is A POS who you should be surprised hasn't been shot more than Once.  Hal is Gross and Pyschotic so no surprise about his actions or that Penelope has a thing for serial killers. Also I wonder if Hermonie actually had Hiram shot possibly by FP?

Omg, I feel like I tell you every time you post, we should be friends!

Honestly I know I sound awful but I really only liked the Bughead parts. Shrug. I can’t even pretend anymore to care about anything. Alice is a birch and gives away bettys money and the show aha Betty confide in her father, her father who sent her gross letters and phone calls and was disgusting, even not mentioning the serial killer aspect. She’s probably not going to tell anyone and this will cause friction, probably with Betty and Jughead and at this point they are the only ones I care about.

4 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

For me, my feelings towards Betty, mirror your's towards Veronica.  That she could talk to Hal at all, after he brutally murdered (in horror movie fashion) a number of people, well, it doesn't matter.

I'll be interested in what this show is going to look like in an episode or two.  Who will be spending time with whom and why.  Well mainly Hermione and Veronica.  The others don't matter to me.

Veronica and Hermione are both awful at me to this point. Veronica was truly her worst for me tonight. 

Like I said, I like maybe four people on this show right now.  I think the writers really shouldn’t have that. Shouldn’t I like more? 

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[angora]

When I saw dark-haired Archie, there was a little part of me that went, “Wait - did the show have Hiram frame Archie for murder just to eventually have Archie go into hiding so KJ could stop having to dye his hair?  That’s so bonkers, but also, I’m kind of impressed?”  But then Betty helped him dye it back and I was like, “Aw, guess not.”

[tennisgurl]

Alice really has become the fucking worst, even more awful than back when she was controlling and mean to her all of the time. She gave away her college savings! To a cult! I mean, damn Alice, when your daughter would rather hang out with her murderous, serial killer dad who is getting his Hannibal Lecture on than you, you know you've made some parenting mistakes. I was kind of amused watching the gang trying to do normal teen stuff, but their murder cults and gangs and PTSD kept pulling them away. 

Reggie had the exact same reaction I had when Archie got attacked by a bear last week. "A bear? A freaking bear?!" 

FP is the Sheriff now?! For one minute, I honesty thought the Sheriff would be Cheryl. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean if I’m being honest all of the characters were kind of awful tonight  except Fred and made terrible choices. I only liked Betty and Jughead when they were Bughead or when Jughead hit tall boy for insulting Betty. Archie, I’m sorry I am not going to be able to deal with dark Archie, Veronica was awful as was Reggie, Jughead made terrible choices, as did Betty. Im sorry I don’t get the logic here and I’m worried that dark Betty is coming back and no wants that. Also Alice can die. 

but yeah.. I’m kind of done with all the characters since this episode. I’m starting to dislike everyone and I’m wondering if that’s the point.

[notcreative enough]

I definitely think Hermione is behind the shooting. He threatened her before it happened and they were on the phone so she has an "alibi."

It's sad that Betty needs to go to her psycho father for any time of parental bonding because her mother will screw her over any chance she gets. Betty needs to move out and get away from Alice. Maybe Fred's or cousin Cheryl.

I hope I'm not supposed to be sad Varchie is over because I'm not. The extent of their relationship was them boning all the time. Did they ever really have deep bond? 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, notcreative enough said:

I definitely think Hermione is behind the shooting. He threatened her before it happened and they were on the phone so she has an "alibi."

It's sad that Betty needs to go to her psycho father for any time of parental bonding because her mother will screw her over any chance she gets. Betty needs to move out and get away from Alice. Maybe Fred's or cousin Cheryl.

I hope I'm not supposed to be sad Varchie is over because I'm not. The extent of their relationship was them boning all the time. Did they ever really have deep bond? 

I’m not sad about it but I think Veronica sucks. And Reggie does too. Sorry not sorry I feel that way.

And I agree with you, Hermione definitely shot Hiram. She did not want to move in to an asylum. But also she’s terrible too so

she gets no points from me.

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Lady Calypso]

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

FP is the Sheriff now?! For one minute, I honesty thought the Sheriff would be Cheryl. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.

That reminds me: Cheryl didn't even appear in this episode. Halle-freaking-lujah. 

I am interested in the Archie plot. Somehow, he's become my favourite character. It really used to be Betty but she still sits at a comfortable second spot. But I think the issue with Betty is how she hasn't told her mother to go jump off a cliff or has had to even try to take her down. Alice is seriously the worst, to start off. I really don't see how she's someone we're supposed to be rooting for, if we're supposed to be rooting for her. Betty going to see her father multiple times without anyone with her is stupid. I get going to sign the affidavit (though that seemed to be pointless). I do get that she is angry at her mother. I just think talking to her father isn't going to help matters. But, again, I get it. She needs to vent about Alice. It's about damn time she did. 

I am interested in Dark Archie. Don't ask me exactly why, but it's about damn time we saw Archie do SOMETHING of interest. After making stupid decision after stupid decision....well, he may make some stupid decisions still (secretly drinking) but I'm convinced it'll be resolved in two episodes anyway and at least they set it up nicely. All season so far, Archie really has had the shittiest luck...and by his own hand when he pleaded guilty! I actually wish Archie is the one to have shot Hiram. He probably isn't (I agree it's likely Hermione), but I thought that would have been the thing to really break him and Veronica up. Instead, we got the stupidest break-up reason possible with Veronica not having proof that Archie did it besides running out of the SATs and then thinking he did it. Girl, you know your now ex-boyfriend just went through some stuff for months. Give him more than a day to figure it out. 

Going to the Veronica/Archie/Reggie triangle, I was actually impressed with how Archie handled...well, most of that stuff. I'm totally fine with the two breaking up but Reggie was a jealous jackass and Veronica was pretty selfish and jumping too quickly at Reggie. Archie was fairly ok for me. I think KJ Apa sold Archie's change quite well. He was on edge, frustrated, and hardened by his experiences. Well, he was as hardened as this show will dare to go. I felt bad for Fred to see Archie like this.

I'm not really liking Jughead's stuff. He's so willing to risk lives to find the Gargoyle King. Now he has and...is that really the end of that arc?  And now FP is Sheriff? 

I'm lasting longer than last season. I didn't even get to episode 10 of last season, so something good is going on here for me. But it's only a select few characters and not much else. 

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

That reminds me: Cheryl didn't even appear in this episode. Halle-freaking-lujah. 

I am interested in the Archie plot. Somehow, he's become my favourite character. It really used to be Betty but she still sits at a comfortable second spot. But I think the issue with Betty is how she hasn't told her mother to go jump off a cliff or has had to even try to take her down. Alice is seriously the worst, to start off. I really don't see how she's someone we're supposed to be rooting for, if we're supposed to be rooting for her. Betty going to see her father multiple times without anyone with her is stupid. I get going to sign the affidavit (though that seemed to be pointless). I do get that she is angry at her mother. I just think talking to her father isn't going to help matters. But, again, I get it. She needs to vent about Alice. It's about damn time she did. 

I am interested in Dark Archie. Don't ask me exactly why, but it's about damn time we saw Archie do SOMETHING of interest. After making stupid decision after stupid decision....well, he may make some stupid decisions still (secretly drinking) but I'm convinced it'll be resolved in two episodes anyway and at least they set it up nicely. All season so far, Archie really has had the shittiest luck...and by his own hand when he pleaded guilty! I actually wish Archie is the one to have shot Hiram. He probably isn't (I agree it's likely Hermione), but I thought that would have been the thing to really break him and Veronica up. Instead, we got the stupidest break-up reason possible with Veronica not having proof that Archie did it besides running out of the SATs and then thinking he did it. Girl, you know your now ex-boyfriend just went through some stuff for months. Give him more than a day to figure it out. 

Going to the Veronica/Archie/Reggie triangle, I was actually impressed with how Archie handled...well, most of that stuff. I'm totally fine with the two breaking up but Reggie was a jealous jackass and Veronica was pretty selfish and jumping too quickly at Reggie. Archie was fairly ok for me. I think KJ Apa sold Archie's change quite well. He was on edge, frustrated, and hardened by his experiences. Well, he was as hardened as this show will dare to go. I felt bad for Fred to see Archie like this.

I'm not really liking Jughead's stuff. He's so willing to risk lives to find the Gargoyle King. Now he has and...is that really the end of that arc?  And now FP is Sheriff? 

I'm lasting longer than last season. I didn't even get to episode 10 of last season, so something good is going on here for me. But it's only a select few characters and not much else. 

I like most of what you said. Again I am really only into the Bughead aspect of this show.

I don’t care much about dark Archie and I’m not all that excited to watch.

I think Veronica and Reggie were really bad this episode too.

I sadly don’t thinj the g and g stuff is over. It’s totally going to come back and bite Jughead and get him into trouble. Hell everything both bettt and Jughead did this episode makes me nervous for the state of Bughead. Watch this season end with Jughead taking the fall for the murder of tall boy. But would they do that? I mean sending Jughead to jail is sort of a retread of last year but I can see this happening and Bettys off sharing secrets with her psycho dad. That’s going to end up well.

Speaking off.. yeah what is the point of the Alice character? She’s so terrible I can’t even ind words anymore and I’m sorry but I find Ma as an actress not that great and I find her posts when I see them on sm and her interviews kind of annoying. So I have no love for Alice. I’m so over it. I get that this is all for a cult and it’ll probably end with Alice and Betty being fine again but this show hasn’t even acknowledged that Alice sent her to an asylum. Like they just don’t even mention it? It’s getting bad.

Also yeah I didn’t miss Cheryl. Or Toni. Maybe next week I won’t have to see Reggie or Veronica. That would be awesome.

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[tennisgurl]

Archie handled the Veronica/Reggie thing way better than I expected him to, but in retrospect, it makes sense that this is how he would react. Archie has changed a lot, and he is going through a LOT of internal and external issues, Veronica and her Veronicaness probably isnt what he wants right now. Reggie is sure into Veronica, huh? Veronica was kind of crappy to both of them, honestly, Reggie is at fault for hooking up with his friends girlfriend, but Veronica was the one cheating on her boyfriend (who was only on the run because of her dad!) and when Reggie started showing real interest in her, she basically treated him like a sidepiece that can be ditched the second her real boyfriend showed up! Not cool, Ronnie. 

Dark Archie is awesome already, I really do feel awful for him. he has been through so much insane shit in such a quick amount of time, its no wonder he is struggling so hard. I felt terrible for Fred as well, being one of the only decent parents on this show, and clearly heartbroken over his sons trauma, and is unsure how to help him. I would say get him into therapy ASAP, but make sure its a therapist outside of Riverdale. A shrink in Riverdale would probably be part of a brainwashing cult and be hypnotizing their patients to commit crimes in cartoon masks or something.

Betty needs to tell her mom to kindly fuck off. Alice is reaching new levels of suck. 

We actually got a brief Core Four scene! Will we get any more this season? Tune in soon to find out! I cant say I am super into the Jughead stuff right now, although FP as Sheriff sounds like the kind of ridiculous that I can get behind. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I agree Archie handled well but both veronica and Reggie sucked. I hope the serpents stopped being security and I kind of hope her speakeasy fails. She’s on my list of characters that make wish I dvr watched so I can fast forward, but alas I love watching live.

I think we might get more core four scenes. I mean I hope we do. I know most people hate them for some reason but I love their friendships.

Again not looking forward to dark Archie only because I fear they will play it that he’s the only one who has gone through some stuff when both his two closet friends have as well.

eta: also can we start a thread of terrible awful characters who have worn out their time on this show: Alice is obviously on the list but there’s a few more I would include.

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

Aw. Fred and Archie. My loves. Their father/son dynamic is one of the sweetest relationships this show has done. Luke and KJ are great. Fred threatening Hiram and being at peace with whatever, more of that please, show.  What a king.

Betty’s “Do you trust me?” followed by Archie’s nod was really adorable. Betty’s smile is infectious when she’s around him. And a cute callback to their childhood study sesh.

Archie exiting while Veronica was singing is how I feel every time I hear that voice. :/

Reggie is an asshole. And LOL @ some of CM’s acting choices. 

“She didn’t think you were going to come back.” “Maybe I shouldn’t have.” LMAO. KJ’s delivery was everything.

Varchie’s relationship can literally be summed up with “Can we finish this conversation later?” followed by sex. Wash, rinse, repeat. They’re not deep, and apparently there’s no push to make it that way any time soon. Also, Veronica is literally becoming the worst. Her crazyass father will forever come before Archie. Which, whatever, but Archie can thank u, next her ass. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I liked the Barchie friendship scene. There were no romantic vibes there for me which I liked, but again as I say with each and every post, I’m really only here now for Bughead.

i wish FP had said something in regards to Jughead when Hiram said his line about not causing harm to either Archie or Jughead. It bothers me that people tend to forget Hiram was behind Jugheads almost death as well, but fp didn’t say a thing. Again like Alice, are we supposed to like FP? He’s a terrible parent. 

As for Veggie as I said it doesn’t help that I really don’t like Charles so I have no love for Reggie, I don’t really get the love there either. And Veronica is lost now to. Also I know people want her to be bitchy mean girl Veronica from the comics. I don’t want that. I want her to lose everything. I feel if she becomes a bitch she still has some sort of power, she needs to lose a peg or two or three. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[paulvdb]

I know Alice is a terrible mother, but I hope Betty doesn't use that as an excuse to reconnect with her father. I only want Betty to visit them if she's going to use him to help her find the Gargoyle King. Hal can be the Hannibal Lecter to Betty's Clarice Starling. That's what I thought they were going to do when Hal told Betty that he was the original Gargoyle King.

[WhosThatGirl]

15 minutes ago, paulvdb said:

I know Alice is a terrible mother, but I hope Betty doesn't use that as an excuse to reconnect with her father. I only want Betty to visit them if she's going to use him to help her find the Gargoyle King. Hal can be the Hannibal Lecter to Betty's Clarice Starling. That's what I thought they were going to do when Hal told Betty that he was the original Gargoyle King.

It seems like she’s already talking to him about normal things again though. I mean she could be playing him but she was talking about what Alice did and how it affects college. I think she got pulled in. I guess we will see next week, but I think she already did.

[Dee]

Alice & Hal are the best.

The quicker Bughead fall off a cliff the better.

This show is terrible.

[pinkglove]

5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

It seems like she’s already talking to him about normal things again though. I mean she could be playing him but she was talking about what Alice did and how it affects college. I think she got pulled in. I guess we will see next week, but I think she already did.

I think she's playing him. They showed them near the end of the episode, it's where they usually show something outrageous to play us. Also, not saying that everything in this show makes sense (obviously), but it would be really weird for her to turn to her father for emotional support because her mother betrayed her. She was angry at Alice for practical reasons, but I doubt she was deeply emotionally hurt, which would kind of validate going to Hal. Since the beginning of the season, Alice has offered her no support whatsoever, she doesn't need to replace a caring parent all of a sudden because it's been a long time since she had one. 

Tall Boy being the Gargoyle King was a bit anti-climatic. Is he really dead now? Because I really wouldn't want them to use him as a face behind the next hooded/masked psycho and apparently they have trouble finding someone else for the role. 

Overall, I didn't like this episode. I loved the two previous ones (especially ep 8). Sure, they were bonkers, but just to the degree that kept me both engaged and laughing at myself for being so. This one though, I don't know, I found myself wanting to fast-forward through many scenes - I didn't care about Hal, the Blossoms, or Archie/Veronica/Reggie. Especially Archie/Veronica/Reggie. Even Archie/Fred scenes were kind of meh. 

It's good to see that Hermione seems to finally have turned against Hiram by appointing FP as the sherif. Not a bad move, instead of enabling her husband's schemes and crimes against just about everyone, she enabled the Serpents to deal with him. BTW, why on earth did they arrest the Blossom mug (what was he even in this show for?) and left Tall Boy in the bunker? Obviously he became useless as far as getting them to Hiram went, why ask for trouble? 

I wonder how much longer they will drag Hiram being the main enemy, I hope not to the end of the season and that this episode was a nod toward replacing him with the cult leader (judging by Hiram's conversation with Hermione, they aren't connected), at least for some time. There doesn't seem to be much left for him to do.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t think Tall boy was really the king because I don’t think that plot is over unfortunately.

Also pretty sure hiram will be back and I think the gAme and the farm is all connected.

Also yeah I hope betty is playing Hal. And it’s not just this season that Betty hasn’t had a caring parent. She hasn’t had one ever. Alice has never been decent and Hal for the most part was just there and then in season two became a killer who sent her messages and called her to torture her. She’s never had a decent parent. People think Alice was decent a few times in past seasons and I have to roll my eyes, she never was. At least not to me. 

Also i wish could think Hermione was awesome for standing up to Hiram but she isn’t. She’s been letting this crap go on for a while now and didn’t really give a damn when her husband was letting juive kids do a fighting ring. She was just mad she had to clean up a mess of his. Yup. She’s awesome. 

Again.. really only here for the Bughead aspect of this show at this point. Each and every week I find myself not really liking any of the characters. 

[Dobian]

So to summarize...Varchie has been replaced by Varegica, possibly putting Barchie on the horizon and that would spell troubled waters ahead for Archhead.

Why am I actually rooting for Betty's dad to escape prison and wreak havoc on this town again?

Archie,s insta-recovery from death by grizzly attack has to be the most miraculous resurrection in tv history.

I think the show wants Betty to kill Alice.  Time for Betty to put that black wig on and go to work.

Veronica sings Eres Tu, another great anachronistic moment.  That was actually a clever pop culture shout-out.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Dobian

[WhosThatGirl]

15 minutes ago, Dobian said:

So to summarize...Varchie has been replaced by Veregica, possibly putting Barchie on the horizon and that would spell troubled waters ahead for Archhead.

Why am I actually rooting for Betty's dad to escape prison and wreak havoc on this town again?

Archie,s insta-recovery from death by grizzly attack has to be the most miraculous resurrection in tv history.

I think the show wants Betty to kill Alice.  Time for Betty to put that black wig on and go to work.

Veronica sings Eres Tu, another great anachronistic moment.  That was actually a clever pop culture shout-out.

No, keep the wig away! I want Alice gone but they said dark Betty is dead and I hope that stays. Also no on the Barchie front. I feel like they need to build that to more than just having Varchie be broken up. Plus Betty has to be into it too and so far she and Jughead are super close. This episode and all their moments in it showed me as much.

[Dobian]

Archie is destined to bounce back and forth between Betty and Veronica.  Plus this is a soap opera, every relationship is going to come to an end at some point, even bughead's.

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Archie is destined to bounce back and forth between Betty and Veronica.  Plus this is a soap opera, every relationship is going to come to an end at some point, even bughead's.

I’m sure they will but I just don’t think it’ll happen right now. Also Jughead factors into this as well. It’s not just archie bouncing between Veronica and Betty, just because this happened in the comics doesn’t mean it’s what the show will be about. 

Also I really hope this isn’t the end goal. I really like Betty and I think she deserves more than a guy who can’t decide e between her and another girl. Why would people want that for that character? Not to mention if this is what is destined for the show, was Jughead just an obstacle and a nothing piece? Because like I said he’s a factor here too. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

16 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Archie is destined to bounce back and forth between Betty and Veronica.  Plus this is a soap opera, every relationship is going to come to an end at some point, even bughead's.

Yep. I like Betty and Archie’s BFF-ship but I fully expect them to explore something more. It doesn’t mean it’s going to last, but tbh, I don’t even think of anything in “endgame” terms because that just ruins the journey, IMO. I believe the show has created an obvious roadmap where Archie will finally acknowledge his feelings for Betty and then have to deal with the consequences of that.

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean I expect it to happen but I don’t think it can happen right now. They have to build to it and to me make it work in a way that doesn’t make anyone look bad. Case in point, what they did in last nights episode have really ruined the Veronica character. Reggie wasn’t much for me anyway but last night did him no favors. But they’ve really ruined the Veronica character for me. Everything she did last night was terrible. And I’m curious to see how they plan to walk back from that. If that’s how they plan on doing Barchie I probably will quit the show, because at this point, the fact that each and every week they ruin characters, what am I watching for?

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

4 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And I’m curious to see how they plan to walk back from that.

For me, she’s gotta disown daddy. Everyone’s mileage will vary.

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

For me, she’s gotta disown daddy. Everyone’s mileage will vary.

I mean they have gotten find out what they want now with the character. In  most episodes this season thus far she’s hated her father, disowned him, moved out, hired the serpents to protect herself from him. And now she’s sitting at his bedside? I’m confused. Also honestly Betty and Jughead shouldn’t want to be friends with her now either. Jughead should stop having the serpents be her security. But I don’t think that’s going to happen. Like I said if Alice can get away with all the things she’s doing to Betty, no one cares about Veronica. And again like I said.. I know I’m alone but when I only like three characters left on a show, that’s a problem for me as a viewer. It might not be a problem for everyone, but it is for me.

[HeatLifer]

11 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

In  most episodes this season thus far she’s hated her father, disowned him, moved out, hired the serpents to protect herself from him. And now she’s sitting at his bedside? I’m confused.

It’s now a character trait of Veronica’s to be wishy-washy about her father. She can’t quit him. 

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

It’s now a character trait of Veronica’s to be wishy-washy about her father. She can’t quit him. 

I mean, I think sadly all the teen characters have this trait. Jughead has his dad and his mom who he let go with abandoning him, he made a snide comment but then it was over.And then we have Betty. Yeah the Hal stuff might be her playing him but the Alice relationship, let’s be real, Alice will probably find some way to get Betty to forgive her. Remember last season when she guilted Betty by singing a song and made Betty feel bad about her kicking chic out despite him being creepy? I’m fully expecting something like this by seasons end. Betty can’t quit Alice either. They all have this trait and to me that’s bad writing, actually. Jughead and Betty and Veronica should all detest their parents and even Hermione is bad too. She has been letting terrible things happen and just standing around. Again I sarcastically say she’s so awesome!

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

43 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

They all have this trait and to me that’s bad writing, actually. Jughead and Betty and Veronica should all detest their parents and even Hermione is bad too

They all definitely have their reasons, but Veronica’s issues with her father directly impact Archie. So while TPTB can choose to have Veronica keeping going back to her father for whatever reason, it’s also what makes her relationship with Archie implausible.

[NeenerNeener]

I stand somewhat corrected. Last week I thought they'd keep Archie clothed for awhile until they could pretend the bear claw wounds healed without scars. Instead they took his shirt off again this week and gave him decorative temporary tattoos.

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

They all definitely have their reasons, but Veronica’s issues with her father directly impact Archie. So while TPTB can choose to have Veronica keeping going back to her father for whatever reason, it’s also what makes her relationship with Archie implausible.

I mean yeah but they really all should denounce their parents. At least hiram got shot.

Nothing will ever happen to Alice it seems like. That bothers me so much that the show never addresses this. I mean yeah they kind of are now about the college thing but that’s not even that big considering Alice had her daughter committed and that didn’t get any sort of a reaction. Wtf? And I’m fully grasping that Alice will be back in bettys good graces by seasons end because Betty is never allowed to stand up to her mother. 

Again im really only here for Bughead stuff. I can’t stand any of the stories or plots of the actual show and the characters I want on my sceen are dwindling. So here for Bughead, considering not watching live so I can only watch Bughead scenes and I don’t care anymore if people think that makes me a terrible viewer.

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[SourK]

20 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also Archie should repeat junior year. They probably all should. They haven’t really schooled in a while.

Word. Archie hasn't been in school this year, between getting arrested and being on the run. Whether or not that's his fault, it obviously would affect his ability to graduate on time. Why is he surprised by that? (I know he's surprised because he's dumb, but being dumb is another good reason to finish school!)

20 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Oh so Tall boy is the one who broke into the Cooper house.

In fairness, I guess we should have figured that out when we saw that the Gargoyle King was tall. It's what cracked the case on Tall Boy last time.

18 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

I definitely think Hermione is behind the shooting.

Me too. Though I am actually surprised by how violently my heart rejected the idea that Hiram might die. Take Archie, sure, but leave Mr. Lodge. Mr. Lodge is fun.

(Also, when they were trying to lure Hiram to a trap by offering him "something he wants" I felt like they didn't need to offer him Archie. They could have literally offered him another oil painting of himself. DON'T KILL MY BEST FRIEND.)

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Reggie is sure into Veronica, huh? Veronica was kind of crappy to both of them, honestly, Reggie is at fault for hooking up with his friends girlfriend, but Veronica was the one cheating on her boyfriend...

I don't want this to become our version of "They were on a break!!!" but Archie and Veronica were broken up as far as I can tell.

1 hour ago, NeenerNeener said:

I stand somewhat corrected. Last week I thought they'd keep Archie clothed for awhile until they could pretend the bear claw wounds healed without scars. Instead they took his shirt off again this week and gave him decorative temporary tattoos.

The only kind of tattoo known to Riverdale.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah I’m sorry but I don’t think Tall boy was really the king. I think the plot will come back and I think it’s connected to the farm. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Again im really only here for Bughead stuff.

I like some of the other characters but Betty and Jughead are the best, and they need to stay together.  I'm scared to death they are going to break them up and give Betty a romance with Archie.  I cannot stand Archie.  The idea that he gets left behind and has to stay in school while his friends move on kind of amuses me.

I actually wouldn't have minded hearing Veronica sing more of Eres Tu.  This show is so funny, Veronica's in high school but she runs a bar lol.   

[methodwriter85]

23 hours ago, angora said:

When I saw dark-haired Archie, there was a little part of me that went, “Wait - did the show have Hiram frame Archie for murder just to eventually have Archie go into hiding so KJ could stop having to dye his hair?  That’s so bonkers, but also, I’m kind of impressed?”  But then Betty helped him dye it back and I was like, “Aw, guess not.”

It's pretty funny because KJ is pretty clear about how much he absolutely hates doing the red hair but his co-stars have said in at least two different group interviews that it's weird for them when he's back to his normal hair color. I did think the same thing, though, that they were going to at least give KJ a break with having to dye his hair at least for an episode or two.

 

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

This show is so funny, Veronica's in high school but she runs a bar lol.   

That doesn't serve any actual alcohol. She's basically running The Bronze from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I'm sorry, Alice is now irredeemable to me. Her tuition money? Seriously?

I did get a laugh of that one dude referring to Betty as Alice's "bitch daughter" and Jughead hitting him for that. LOL.

[Snookums]

Quote

Also Archie should repeat junior year. They probably all should. They haven’t really schooled in a while.

Seriously! When Betty was flipping out about going to college/her tuition I was all girl, you have more life credit than anybody else on earth. When was the last time any of them went to class at all?

Hey, everybody! Late watching this one because we spent yesterday getting our tub refinished and going out to eat because of the stench of chemicals, but I did get to see this one, yay.

Believe it or not,  amidst the wreckage of ridiculous crazyness that is a typical Riverdale episode, an actual theme emerged--being helpless; particularly in the parent/child relationship. And it was played really well! 

Betty having to have her "good"  (as in 'not serial killer') parent get worse and worse every week while having nowhere, realistically, she can go--she's still a minor and Alice is her parent--is a living nightmare, and when all the external dramas are stripped away, like the kids from SOQM, she's really stuck in this house with this lunatic narcissist who is cheerfully stealing all her money and trying to recruit her into this terrifying cult, and she's got nothing she can do. Even Attorney McCoy is all "well, we need your SERIAL KILLER FATHER to sign off on this" instead of, I don't know, offering to act as Betty's legal representative and go herself or accompany her or something??? I mean I know Hal would demand a one on one with Betty anyway but at least we wouldn't have to watch every single adult in this sixteen year old girl's life either abandon or fuck her over. I actually thought that last scene with Hal was earned in a strange way: all her life, her dad has been on her side, and now he's really the only one who's saying YOUR MOTHER IS CRAZY AND WRONG. Think how bad things must be for your only source of support, whom you know is a wretched, evil thing bent on ruining you because of his weird obsessions, be the only one in your corner, adult-wise. Ugh.

Same thing with Veronica. Hiram is every bit as bad as Hal, he's just committing different types of crimes. He's certainly killed, or had killed, as many people as Hal has. And he's manipulated his relationship with his daughter just as much as Hal did with Betty (Hell, for most of her life, Hal had to act sane and normal while Alice was The Crazy One so in some ways Vee has had it worse in in that way.) Her mother is just as self serving, too, by the by.

Of course she's going to panic when somebody shoots him! Of course the thought that it was Archie is going to at least cross her mind! Those two had a good relationship but it was designed to be "you and me against the world" (plus lots of boning) and once she had doubts, it fell apart. (Nice to see their favorite position before all the Sturm und Drang is still STANDING UP WHILE ARCHIE SUPPORTS HER WEIGHT with a bear-swiped arm and shoulder! But based on the actual scarring said bear was a three week old cub, anyway.)

Archie, of course, has just about the only healthy parental relationship in this entire town, but his "changed nature" is  telling him that while Fred may love and support him, he can't protect him. Let's talk to Mr. Whiskey instead, apparently at seven in the morning! Dude, you've got a lovely young liver but you cannot keep that shit up. 

As for the rest of the show:

Tallboy apparently had a niche career standing in for serial killers. First BH, than Gargoyle? What the hell? So is he really dead this time or what?

Penelope's back and crazier than ever! Love Hiram's "gross" eyeroll at her suggestion that the convent be her brothel spot. Also enjoyed her cheerful admission that she wrote a couple fan letters to Jeffery Dahmer back in the day.

Speaking of, how the hell is Hal being held in the city jail??? He should be in PRISON on death row and the only person allowed to see him is his attorney. Not in the small town lockup where I cannot believe for one second that everybody on staff honestly thought Penelope was Alice and granted conjugal visits TO A SERIAL KILLER.  But at least we know he wasn't the original Gargoyle King and the mystery drags on.

Hi, Cornelius! Bye, Cornelius! What the hell was that all about other than to get you out of the morass of plotlines and characters?

Hermione, I get the demented logic behind appointing FP Sheriff but I don't think convicted felons are allowed to hold law enforcement positions.

Anybody notice that Polly wasn't among those celebrating/rubbing it in during Raw Milk and Cookie time, there? 

No Kevin, Cheryl or Toni. Not even at Archie's welcome back party, damn.

[WhosThatGirl]

16 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Seriously! When Betty was flipping out about going to college/her tuition I was all girl, you have more life credit than anybody else on earth. When was the last time any of them went to class at all?

Hey, everybody! Late watching this one because we spent yesterday getting our tub refinished and going out to eat because of the stench of chemicals, but I did get to see this one, yay.

Believe it or not,  amidst the wreckage of ridiculous crazyness that is a typical Riverdale episode, an actual theme emerged--being helpless; particularly in the parent/child relationship. And it was played really well! 

Betty having to have her "good"  (as in 'not serial killer') parent get worse and worse every week while having nowhere, realistically, she can go--she's still a minor and Alice is her parent--is a living nightmare, and when all the external dramas are stripped away, like the kids from SOQM, she's really stuck in this house with this lunatic narcissist who is cheerfully stealing all her money and trying to recruit her into this terrifying cult, and she's got nothing she can do. Even Attorney McCoy is all "well, we need your SERIAL KILLER FATHER to sign off on this" instead of, I don't know, offering to act as Betty's legal representative and go herself or accompany her or something??? I mean I know Hal would demand a one on one with Betty anyway but at least we wouldn't have to watch every single adult in this sixteen year old girl's life either abandon or fuck her over. I actually thought that last scene with Hal was earned in a strange way: all her life, her dad has been on her side, and now he's really the only one who's saying YOUR MOTHER IS CRAZY AND WRONG. Think how bad things must be for your only source of support, whom you know is a wretched, evil thing bent on ruining you because of his weird obsessions, be the only one in your corner, adult-wise. Ugh.

Same thing with Veronica. Hiram is every bit as bad as Hal, he's just committing different types of crimes. He's certainly killed, or had killed, as many people as Hal has. And he's manipulated his relationship with his daughter just as much as Hal did with Betty (Hell, for most of her life, Hal had to act sane and normal while Alice was The Crazy One so in some ways Vee has had it worse in in that way.) Her mother is just as self serving, too, by the by.

Of course she's going to panic when somebody shoots him! Of course the thought that it was Archie is going to at least cross her mind! Those two had a good relationship but it was designed to be "you and me against the world" (plus lots of boning) and once she had doubts, it fell apart. (Nice to see their favorite position before all the Sturm und Drang is still STANDING UP WHILE ARCHIE SUPPORTS HER WEIGHT with a bear-swiped arm and shoulder! But based on the actual scarring said bear was a three week old cub, anyway.)

Archie, of course, has just about the only healthy parental relationship in this entire town, but his "changed nature" is  telling him that while Fred may love and support him, he can't protect him. Let's talk to Mr. Whiskey instead, apparently at seven in the morning! Dude, you've got a lovely young liver but you cannot keep that shit up. 

As for the rest of the show:

Tallboy apparently had a niche career standing in for serial killers. First BH, than Gargoyle? What the hell? So is he really dead this time or what?

Penelope's back and crazier than ever! Love Hiram's "gross" eyeroll at her suggestion that the convent be her brothel spot. Also enjoyed her cheerful admission that she wrote a couple fan letters to Jeffery Dahmer back in the day.

Speaking of, how the hell is Hal being held in the city jail??? He should be in PRISON on death row and the only person allowed to see him is his attorney. Not in the small town lockup where I cannot believe for one second that everybody on staff honestly thought Penelope was Alice and granted conjugal visits TO A SERIAL KILLER.  But at least we know he wasn't the original Gargoyle King and the mystery drags on.

Hi, Cornelius! Bye, Cornelius! What the hell was that all about other than to get you out of the morass of plotlines and characters?

Hermione, I get the demented logic behind appointing FP Sheriff but I don't think convicted felons are allowed to hold law enforcement positions.

Anybody notice that Polly wasn't among those celebrating/rubbing it in during Raw Milk and Cookie time, there? 

No Kevin, Cheryl or Toni. Not even at Archie's welcome back party, damn.

Kevin was at the party. He was sitting next to Bughead. Also he was at the sat test. Also I did not miss Cheryl or Toni.

eta: this is the only clip I could find and you have to squint but you can see Kevin’s face of him at the party:

It might be hard to even see his face here, but you can see it on the Instagram app better. 

And also here he is in the background of the sats after Archie walked out:

Edited January 25, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Man, that's almost worse than not being there at all! At least Josie didn't have to do hair and makeup to be an extra.

[WhosThatGirl]

7 hours ago, Snookums said:

Man, that's almost worse than not being there at all! At least Josie didn't have to do hair and makeup to be an extra.

I’m meh on Kevin so it doesn’t really matter and I preferred not seeing Choni. Like I said I didn’t really miss them.

[rmontro]

15 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It's pretty funny because KJ is pretty clear about how much he absolutely hates doing the red hair

Maybe he should have thought about that before taking the job.  I guess it was too big an opportunity for him to turn down though.

[HeatLifer]

17 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Maybe he should have thought about that before taking the job.  I guess it was too big an opportunity for him to turn down though.

He hates it bc he has to do it every few weeks, it burns, and he’s scared to lose his hair, lol. I feel him.

[rmontro]

2 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

He hates it bc he has to do it every few weeks, it burns, and he’s scared to lose his hair, lol. I feel him.

How do women put up with it then?  I bet over half the female population changes their hair color in some way or other.

[HeatLifer]

Just now, rmontro said:

How do women put up with it then?  I bet over half the female population changes their hair color in some way or other.

Without getting too deep, a lot of women do things for beauty that are unfun and not too pleasing because of societal pressure to do so.

[methodwriter85]

I do think they changed the way they did his hair so they don't use bleach, which has to help. I don't get why they don't just have him wear a wig, though. LOL.