Sara Lance: The Canary Rises In White

[festivus]

She shouldn't let it go. I did not plan to watch this show until I knew she was going to be on it.

[BkWurm1]

The slicked back hair thing has to go too. If she needs her hair out of her eyes put it in a bun or something

 

I saw some pictures of some models at the recent New York fashion week and the awful slicked back hair was a thing.  I think they might think it is actually a good look.  And if not good, at least trendy.  Crossing my fingers it's a look that does not catch on.

[slayer2]

We all know whose fault it is that she can't wear black anymore.

 

She looks better in black. 

 

 

Yes, Felicity and Oliver. I prefer the white frankly. The black bustier thing always seemed like she should be super cold, her chest was entirely bare, and there is a White Canary in canon anyway. Also with Olicity going on she never would have lasted as Black Canary unless they were planning on obliterating her relationship with Ollie like they did with Laurel (which I guess they kind of did anyway). She deserves to be front and centre in (off-) white like she is now. She's a million times more compelling than SA's Green Arrow to me anyway, a lot more badass and a lot more complex, they really did a number on Arrow when they created her.

Edited February 27, 2016 by slayer2

[catrox14]

IMO they the color of Sara's outfit should just be White. Like really white. I think Caity''s hair color and skin would be pretty in actual white, not this crepey/silver/grey/ecru/eggshell thing.

Edited February 27, 2016 by catrox14

[Sakura12]

Black Canary is more than Oliver's love interest. Olicity had nothing to do with Sara being unable to be Black Canary. Black Canary is one of the best martial artists in the DC verse, better than Green Arrow. She works with her own team and helps women. That is Sara. Her new outfit in black would probably look much better. The off white makes her skin look washed out. She looks so much better when wearing regular clothes.

 

They let John Diggle Jr. be Connor Hawke, they could've let Sara Lance be Black Canary. It's not like Laurel is doing anything of use with the name. She's still an afterthought on that show. At least Sara/CL would be living up to the name. 

 

Plus doing her own fighting stunts. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCRNBo9uGZW/?taken-by=caitylotz

[slayer2]

 

Black Canary is more than Oliver's love interest. Olicity had nothing to do with Sara being unable to be Black Canary.

 

 

Oh it totally did. You really think Olicity would have happened with Sara in the picture? Unlikely. They needed to take her out of the equation as love interest for Oliver, first they needed to take Laurel out which they did by putting him BACK with Sara, then they needed to take Sara out which they did by literally taking her out. That paved the road clear for Olicity.

 

BTW Black Canary may be more than Ollie's love interest in the comics but not on Arrow, nobody is more than Oliver's love interest on Arrow or more than Felicity's love interest now I should say. Sara lost any chance of being a fully formed, deep, intelligent, intuitive character on that show (Arrow) the moment she climbed back into bed with Ollie, as is the case with basically every woman on that show. Which is why it's great she has her own show because here she doesn't have to play second fiddle to anyone and she sure as hell doesn't have to die for angst, pain and the benefit of someone else's ship. Sara Lance is no sidepiece, she may have started that way but I think she more than painted her way out of that corner.

Edited February 27, 2016 by slayer2

[Lokiberry]

Olicity/Felicity was not the reason Sara got shot full of arrows, thrown off a building, shoved into a refrigerator and buried in a packing crate in the middle of the night without her parents being notified. Olicity/Felicity did not benefit at all from this. Sara/Oliver were over long before she bounced off the trash dumpster and splattered all over the pavement.

 

One character in the flarrowverse benefited from Sara's brutal murder. One character stripped everything from Sara: costume, name, canary cry, and claimed it for herself. Even Sara's female lover was taken and homogenized into a gal pal for this character. One character was told that it was right that she did all these things because she was morally superior to Sara.

 

Sara was erased for the benefit of one character. That character was not Felicity.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Lokiberry

[scarynikki12]

This conversation would be better suited for the Mind Your Surroundings thread in the Arrow forum. That's for discussion of all comic shows.

[KirkB]

I'm firmly convinced Sara was never meant to be anything more than a placeholder for Laurel. They wanted Laurel to be the Black Canary (because comics!) but for some reason they didn't give her any sort of backstory that hinted at her having the physical capabilities or desire to put on a mask. They could have spent years on the show building her into the Black Canary alongside Oliver becoming the Green Arrow, but no, somebody got impatient and decided they wanted the Black Canary NOW so they scrapped the plans to bring Sara back as Ravager (which potentially made her an expendable villain) and instead made her the Canary. That way they could have their cake and eat it too, having a Canary on screen with a plan in place to kill her off and give Laurel the incentive to take up her mask. Where things went wrong for them is I don't think they expected Sara/Caity to become as popular as she did for a lot of people. That took them by surprise. Some of the people in the Arrow office probably wondered if they should alter their plans, since killing off a popular character is always risky. But not only did they stick with it they actually doubled down by killing Sara is such a brutal fashion, not just for Laurel's storyline but for Thea's, and it backfired spectacularly.

[nksarmi]

Yes I strongly suspect that playing "Black Canary" is IN KC's contract and that is why they couldn't alter the names.  I mean they dedicated Speedy to Thea long before she even started training with Malcolm and gave Roy Arsenal instead.  They don't care about playing with names.  I just have a feeling that when they wrote KC's contract - they put BC in there and then they couldn't change it.  That's why Sara was always Canary.

 

And yes I do think Sara was supposed to be part of Laurel's journey like Tommy was for Oliver.  I think it - like many things on Arrow - was horribly executed, but I do think it was always the plan.  What I will never understand is why they didn't give Laurel more of a martial arts background to start with to set her up more for the hero BC is supposed to be.  I think they also would have benefited from furthering Laurel and Sara's relationship rather than putting Sara back with Oliver.  I think if they always planned to kill Sara for Laurel - it would have been better to focus entirely on their dynamic, forgiveness, friendship, and maybe even some friendly training (like Nyssa later did). 

 

When it was airing - I liked Sara and Oliver together a lot.  But looking back, I think it was a mistake.  They could have had a great partnership without the romantic entanglement.

[Starfish35]

I prefer the white frankly. The black bustier thing always seemed like she should be super cold, her chest was entirely bare, and there is a White Canary in canon anyway.

I am not at all sorry to lose the low cut bustier. In that way only, I think the new costume is an improvement. But in every other way I think the new costume is fugly, and the color is not the least bit flattering. Sara just looks better in darker colors, black, dark green, red, that orange top she's wearing in the promo for the upcoming episode.

A true white might work. I'd have to see it to know. But this ugly cement-looking color is not in the least bit flattering.

[tarotx]

Caity looks pretty in real white but darker colors suit her best. I want her to wear her Canary costume but do what they did to cover her boobs in the white costume. 

[Sakura12]

The fight scenes are better because they are all Caity.

 

[FurryFury]

I wonder if the showrunner/writers of LOT are huge fans of Sara since Arrow, because if we look at the whole show so far, there's clearly been way more callbacks to her backstory and her time on Arrow than for any other character originating from other shows. I mean, we had her dealing with bloodlust (although that one has been forgotten, and I have to say I'm glad because it never felt like it was planned specifically for her, more like an unfortunate side effect because of the crude resurrection plan), remembering her death, meeting with Oliver, talking about her sister and father (well, we also had Snart dealing with his father, but I think they also like Snart), mentioning LoA, hell, we even had her talking about Slade, something I seriously never expected. Just compare this with Ray who probably had at least as many Arrow episodes as her, and we only got, what, a blink-or-you-miss-it mention of his fiancee and Palmer Tech? That's it? I don't even think he ever mentioned Felicity. Hell, Barry mentions Felicity all the time, and they never actually dated.

 

It's not that I mind, I'm just starting to wonder whose idea was it to bring Sara back - the network or the writers who regretted killing her off.

Edited March 5, 2016 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

I've heard from people that don't like Sara that think LoT is the Sara show. She is getting a lot of screentime and storylines considering she's 4th billed in the credits. 

[KirkB]

It's a good point actually. Sara got a season of exposure on Arrow. Everybody already knows everything about her, except for the what was death like stuff. Ray, Snart, Mick and Stein have been in a number of episodes of Arrow and Flash but only parts of their pasts have really come up because it wasn't their show. Kendra, Jax and Rip are all new. Yet Sara gets a lot more scenes and dialogue than any of them. Not that I am complaining, exactly, but to anyone less enamored with Sara, let alone anyone who actively dislikes her, this might not come across as very fair to any of the others.

[nksarmi]

Eh, I love Sara so maybe I'm not prone to notice it, but I think everyone has gotten time to shine.  We've seen some backstory on Rip and gotten to know his wife a little - seen young Stein, captured by the Russians Stein, and Space Ranger Stein - been introduced to Kendra's son and watched her deal with Carter's death and learned that she's a total Star Trek geek - seen Ray fail at robbery and spying, but succeed at shrinking down real small and saving Kendra and patching a whole in the space ship - watched Cold try to make things better for his family by preventing his dad from going to jail, seen that Cold will risk it all to save his partner, seen him convince Sara she didn't have to kill Stein, watched as his priorities transition, seen a fall out between him and his partner, and watched him bond with Sara on the edge of death.

 

Outside of dead Carter and presumed dead/marooned Mick - Jax is probably the one most lacking in development and he's still even had a couple of real big hero moments.

 

I don't honestly believe the show is overly favoring Sara compared to the rest of the cast - but I do imagine that as one of the most established characters on the show - it's easier to write for her than some of the others.

[Lokiberry]

I think Sara's everything they ever wanted in a Canary, and didn't really get elsewhere, so they've gotten a little over excited. Nothing wrong with that. Sara is a strong, well-realized character, who can be used both to drive the story and reveal hidden layers of other characters. Both Snart and Rip have benefited from interacting with her. Giving Sara a lot of focus is good for the show.

[scarynikki12]

I think that the screentime is being dispersed really well. That said I will agree that Sara and Rip seem to have the most but I don't think it's by that much. At the very least it seems that she has more because she's been used really well in all of her scenes so, even if she doesn't have significantly more time, I can understand why it might seem that way. Disliking a character can be like having a pebble in your shoe. It can fester and feel way bigger than it might actually be. I've been there many times myself so I totally get it.

[Sakura12]

I also think the storylines are pretty evenly distributed. Of course if you dislike a character it always seems like they are getting more screen time or are taking away screentime for the characters you do like. 

 

With Sara's screentime, it was as I suspected it would be. They are using her to fight most of the battles because she requires no CGI and no stunt double, meaning less time for shooting and editing. That may seem like she's getting more screentime because of that.  Sometimes I think they forget that Caity's not the only one in the scene and think they don't have to do any edits leaving everyone elses stunt double in the shot. 

 

It's great for me, because most of the time I'm bored if Sara's not on the screen. That one episode where she was stuck with Kendra was my least favorite one. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Sakura12

[slayer2]

I'm only here for Caity Lotz (and to a lesser extent Wentworth Miller and Firestorm) so no complaints from me. I'd sign over the Arrowverse to her if it were up to me, she's the most talented and versatile of all three shows.

[BkWurm1]

I think Sara is also one of those very handy characters that has been written richly enough that she works in a lot of situations where it might take a bit more work to make another character fit. 

 

She's a hero but she's an assassin.  So she's already more relatable to everyone on the ship than any other one character.  Her experience and training makes her the natural fit for seeing what RIp isn't saying, so she's his almost default 2nd in command.  She's the only other female and she has experience with rebirth so she's already connected to Kendra.  She and Ray are both from Star City.  She can tap into her teenage party mentality and chill with Jax.  She isn't intimidated by Prof Stein.  She's the best shot for recon and infiltration and slinky dresses and reading a situation. 

 

It's got to be hard not to write every episode around her.  It would just be so damn easy. 

 

I've made a similar comment about Felicity. Obviously they are vastly different characters, but they easily connect to people and come with a very valued skill set.  It makes them really useful tools in the writer's toolbelt. 

 

Doesn't hurt that Sara comes with IMO the more interesting back story.  Kendra's is just too over the top.  Jax's is too barren.  Stein's is too entrenched (he's lived most of his life, he has new stories to come and interesting old stories, but understanding them aren't going to change him as a character that much.)  Rip's history maybe very complicated but right now the only thing that matters is him trying to save his family and being a Time Master.  Nothing else is really relevant.  Heatwave they aren't even trying to flesh out since they like him as a kind of simple maniac. 

 

Only Leonard comes close but his most interesting story is still unfolding right now, while Sara is packed with secrets I know I want to know. 

 

Oh and then there is Ray.  Personally, I think they could write a very compelling and nuance Ray but right now they seem desperate just to get the audience to like him on a surface level.   

Edited March 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[slayer2]

I don't feel that way about Felicity ( I can't stand her personally) and I don't think she has the range as a character or actor that CL does but I do agree that they have made the "mistake?" of making Sara Lance's backstory more interesting than everyone else on the show again. On Arrow I kept cursing the gods for giving me Ollie's lame flashbacks when Sara's would have been much preferred and we haven't even gotten into a visit from Nyssa yet which frankly I am starving for. I think they hit paydirt with CL, she has this uncanny ability to appear childlike and innocent one minute and an absolute savage the next. I don't blame them either that they can't seem to get away from writing for that.

 

I like Ray as well but I agree that they are making him a bit of a tryhard.

Edited March 8, 2016 by slayer2

[BkWurm1]

I don't feel that way about Felicity ( I can't stand her personally) and I don't think she has the range as a character or actor that CL does

 

And I will never accuse you of liking Felicity, but I think the show has shown she easily makes friends and contacts and has a near universally useful skill, thus making her an easy character to bring into scenes to be a bridge between people or information. 

 

Sara has a different personality but she is skilled in fitting in, uses her excellent observation skills to pick up on key details and in an action show, is never short on being able to supply the action.  Thus another very useful character. 

Edited March 9, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Sakura12]

Edited March 10, 2016 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

Side kicks are pretty awesome <3

[darkestboy]

Sara in the latest episode - how amazing was she?

 

Her commentary on the 1950s, backed up with Jax (we need some bigger scenes with those two) and her fling with Lindsay too.

 

She continues to get better and better. I loved her in Arrow and I love her even more in this show.

[FurryFury]

I even want her to have interactions with Ray because she makes everyone better. Absolutely everyone.

[Sakura12]

Apparently Caity can do everything. A friend posted a vid of her snowboarding.

 

Since the vid was removed, here's a pic of Caity's abs. :D

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Sakura12

[Impish Dragon]

Is Sara bi-sexual or a lesbian?  I keep thinking she's bi-sexual but I've seen her referred to as a lesbian so I'm confused. 

[yellowfred]

She's bisexual.

[KirkB]

Sara has never explicitly identified herself one way or another on the show, but given that she has clearly been in love with both Oliver and Nyssa bisexual seems likely.

Edited April 1, 2016 by KirkB

[Sakura12]

Just some gifs of Sara being a badass.

 

 

[kismet]

I think for Sara sexuality is fluid just like it is for Jamal on Empire. Although she has never self-identified on either show with one sexual orientation or another, which is probably a good thing considering the writing in the Flarrowverse can be questionable at times in terms of sensitivity & accuracy, especially if it can be manipulated for a plot point.

[Impish Dragon]

Thanks for the clarification.  On a shallow note, that hairstyle looked really good on Caity.

[Proteus]

I think for Sara sexuality is fluid just like it is for Jamal on Empire. Although she has never self-identified on either show with one sexual orientation or another, which is probably a good thing considering the writing in the Flarrowverse can be questionable at times in terms of sensitivity & accuracy, especially if it can be manipulated for a plot point.

I'm not sure that's a good comparison because Jamal in Empire falls on the gay side despite what happened earlier this season and identifies himself as such. Sara has shown equal interest in both sexes so I consider her bisexual

[kismet]

I'm not sure that's a good comparison because Jamal in Empire falls on the gay side despite what happened earlier this season and identifies himself as such. Sara has shown equal interest in both sexes so I consider her bisexual

Jamal has self-identified as gay. But he specifically stated in the last episode that for him sexuality is fluid. I believe that for Sara sexuality is fluid as well. That was the point I was making that they both believe in a fluid sexuality. And until she self-identifies as an orientation or no orientation, others should not be classifying her. It's up to her to identify her orientation, not for us to decide.

Edited April 4, 2016 by kismet

[tarotx]

Caity has talked about Sara's bisexuality so for now I consider Sara Bisexual. Until the show tells me what Sara is thinking I'll go with what I see on the show and what Sara's actress (who is straight so may not be as aware of the different sexual identifications as those who are living them and looks out for these things) say and show. Though on Legends Sara does seem more gay than bi but Arrow is still a part of her history. So I can see the fluid sexuality especially since coming back from the dead.

Edited April 5, 2016 by tarotx

[Sakura12]

Sara hasn't self-identified on screen, but CL has said Sara's bisexual. I don't know if she's asked the writers to give her Sara's identification or that's her interpretation. Either way with her statement she's playing Sara as bi.  

[FurryFury]

Though on Legends Sara does seem more gay then bi but Arrow is still a part of her history. So I can see the fluid sexuality especially since coming back from the dead.

Pretty sure that's set-up for her hooking up with one of the male main cast members down the line, so the fans wouldn't be able to accuse the show of homophobia (oh whom am I kidding, they'll still do it, I've seen it too many times). That said, it made sense to use Sara's sexuality to showcase yet another unattractive side on the 50s, I just wish more was be done with it in "Left Behind".

[Sakura12]

The cast is mostly male, with Kendra being destined to be straight. I wouldn't be surprised if Sara hooks up with Leonard or Rip down the line. However I'm all for them bringing on another female hero for Sara to be with. 

[Proteus]

Jamal has self-identified as gay. But he specifically stated in the last episode that for him sexuality is fluid. I believe that for Sara sexuality is fluid as well. That was the point I was making that they both believe in a fluid sexuality. And until she self-identifies as an orientation or no orientation, others should not be classifying her. It's up to her to identify her orientation, not for us to decide.

People can classify Sara if they want to, and CL and TPTB have said she is bi. I saw that Empire episode and I maintain he's gay. I doubt they'll have him with a woman again.

[GreatAtBoats]

kismet, "sexually fluid" itself is an identification, one Sara has never claimed, either (nor has she ever talked about sexuality being fluid, so when you say she believes that to be the case, you're putting words in her mouth). Why is it okay to call her sexually fluid, but bisexual should be off the table until Sara uses the word?

Caity said she told the producers that it was important Sara remain bisexual and that they were all for that. Guggenheim and Berlanti have both explicitly referred to her as bisexual. So Sara is bisexual. Maintaining she's something else is erasure.

Edited April 5, 2016 by GreatAtBoats

[FurryFury]

I just don't get this obsession with labels, personally.

[Sakura12]

I want one.

 

[tarotx]

I want one.

 

So cute <3

[MarkHB]

They actually have a Black Canary that looks a lot more like Sara than Laurel.

[BkWurm1]

Well, it's Sara's outfit.  :)

[Sakura12]

They actually have a Black Canary that looks a lot more like Sara than Laurel.

 

I already have that one, she's hanging out with Peggy Carter and Cosima from Orphan Black on my bookshelf. I want a League Sara Pop with that hairstyle. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

This hairstyle is really awesome. Too bad I can't get anything like that because shipping from US to Russia costs a fortune.