The Not So Merry...Supporting Cast

[JenMD]

I don't have any problems with her going to him.  I don't think it takes away from her CEO-ness that we don't see her in her office, it honestly doesn't register with me.  Maybe I'm just so used to handwaving away the production reasons for why they do stuff.  At this point, I wouldn't expect to see Felicity's office until something happens that can only happen in that space (like how we didn't see Ray in his office last year until the salmon ladder scene [which was incredibly stupid, but I don't want to go down that rabbithole]).  Speaking of Ray's apartment, I thought that one in particular was a fail on their part; I know budget and time are a factor, but it just didn't work for me.

 

I do agree that Curtis' lab is visually interesting.  I'm generally not very good at noticing repurposed sets, anybody know if that was something else before becoming his lab? 

[BkWurm1]

Is it me or is Curtis a bit of a Marty Stu?  He's super intelligent and a Bronze Medal Decathlete who's already helping TA? 

His super hero name is Mr. Terrific.  He's supposed to be like the smartest man on the planet and able to pick up on any physical move just by watching it.  He is the ultimate Stu of all Stu's but he might also be like a D level hero so that keeps him in check? 

 

I like Curtis on the show.  I do.  I just wish that he hadn't shown up during the season where we all get to have so much fun speculating on who is in the grave.  Don't need to meet the obvious replacement or observe that he had his own set built for him rather than as pointed out, Felicity having a set built for her.  That kind of thinking briefly freaks me out until I remind myself it is ALWAYS the most obvious candidate.  Everyone always calls it right away and then talks themselves out of it.  Eddie on Flash.  Moira on Arrow.  Jonathan Kent on Smallville.  It is always exactly who we think it's going to be. 

[AyChihuahua]

It really is always the most obvious person.  Even Sara was, IMO, obvious.  (Ill-considered, but obvious.)  

[statsgirl]

I like Curtis on the show.  I do.  I just wish that he hadn't shown up during the season where we all get to have so much fun speculating on who is in the grave.  Don't need to meet the obvious replacement or observe that he had his own set built for him rather than as pointed out, Felicity having a set built for her. 

It makes it more interesting though that there is someone who could partially replace Felicity.  I can only say that because I'm sure it's not her.

It is always exactly who we think it's going to be.

There are two people topping the running, although Quentin is ahead.

[BkWurm1]

There are two people topping the running, although Quentin is ahead.

 

Nah, Felicity isn't a real candidate.  She's just a group's wishful thinking.  ;)

[kismet]

I just want Curtis to be part of the main story. I'm not a huge fan of PT-island. It's boring at times for me when FS & Curtis are in their own little world. It also feels like a completely different show. I appreciate a more integrated narrative.

[statsgirl]

I'm optimistic that Curtis will be more part of the narrative because he knows that Felicity works with the Green Arrow so soon.  That means that she can bring him stuff from the Team and probably soon he will be able to go down into their lair.

 

It took Ray 18 episodes to learn the Green Arrow's identity; Curtis learned it in his second.

 

Hopefully they've learned from the mistakes of last season.

[kismet]

It really surprised me that they had Donna and Quentin meet up entirely on their own. Still, with a last name like Smoak, there's no way he wouldn't at least wonder about the connection. I am really curious how they develope their relationship. I initially thought they would just share some random smooches at the Queen for Mayor Christmas party, but either they are going to bump into each other all surprised to see their fling from a few weeks ago or they will have been seeing each other since. So which is it going to be, one night fling or a relationship?

I loved how they had them meet. It felt like it could really happen. I also feel like it makes it less about doing it just for the fans and more about giving the characters quality moments. I have no idea about how long or deep the relationship will go. Part of me hopes they have this magical night and then she goes back to Vegas. Perhaps they continue to text and form a connection. But when she comes back in town for the Mayor's Christmas Party, they see each other and put all the pieces together.

 

I am also beginning to wonder is MamaSmoak's last name not Smoak? Do we have in show confirmation that she has the same last name as FS? Because them having different last names can open up so many different paths and explanations.

[bijoux]

Perhaps they continue to text and form a connection. 

 

Who will explain emojis to Lance, Felicity or Oliver? Picture Lance sneaking into the lair. Psst, is Laurel around? I need to discuss something important. -What? Do you have news about the Ghosts?! God, we could really use something. - No, what's this thing mean? Is it smiling or laughing? Sweating? How does a man respond to that?! -...What?

[KirkB]

I imagine Felicity is pretty up to date on emojis, but yeah, I can see Oliver and Quentin staring blankly at their phones trying to decipher them. Having had teen daughters I figure Quentin would figure it out marginally quicker but still....

[Chaser]

As much as I find the implication of Donna and Quentin unpleasant, I acknowledge the comedy gold.

 

Mostly the reveal of them dating to everyone.

[statsgirl]

I'm assuming that Donna doesn't mention her daughter by name (because it is fairly unusual on 2015) and neither of them really talk very much about their daughters at all because it would be really a waste to have the reveal that Quentin is "Doctor Lance" and he knows Felicity off-screen. But what would they talk about at all?  Does Quentin go to movies or listen to music these days?  Would Donna be admiring his gun?  Or would they just fall into bed together?

[Chaser]

I'm assuming that Donna doesn't mention her daughter by name (because it is fairly unusual on 2015) and neither of them really talk very much about their daughters at all because it would be really a waste to have the reveal that Quentin is "Doctor Lance" and he knows Felicity off-screen. But what would they talk about at all?  Does Quentin go to movies or listen to music these days?  Would Donna be admiring his gun?  Or would they just fall into bed together?

Dirty

[statsgirl]

That could be typical Donna.  I doubt Felicity inherited her double entendre babble from her father.

[Chaser]

That could be typical Donna.  I doubt Felicity inherited her double entendre babble from her father.

LOL I hope she did

[kismet]

As for the framing of Felicity and Donna's relationship, we're always seeing it during a time when Felicity is at her most-stressed. When we met Donna, that seemed like the first time she and Felicity had seen each other in years. But I thought the show had done a nice job actually showing the progress in their relationship. It's the timing of her visits that annoy Felicity, it's not Donna herself. I'm hoping next time when we see Donna it's because Felicity invited her to spend the holidays with her and Oliver. But I fear Arrow might go the route of having Lance invite her and they show up, surprising everyone at the campaign office party.

I agree. I think the timing has a lot to do with it. I would love to see FS & OQ invite DS to spend the holidays, that would be so nice. It would fit the family theme. Plus we do know its is an illness with OQ to throw dinner parties. The Holidays are going to be so exciting for him this year. It gives a whole new meaning to a kid on Christmas morning. It would also be funny if DS comes into town all excited about spending time with her daughter but also her possible new flame. And then there will be that inevitable hilarious reveal when DS has to turn down QL for something and QL master detective puts the pieces together.

 

I really feel like it will be OQ that invites DS back to town (perhaps even as part of his engagement plan), FS if they try to go for character growth. Personally I just want DS to come to SC for happy times and then per usual everything goes to hell. Tired of her showing up because of bad things needing to be fixed.

[Chaser]

I think I can't warm up to Poppy because she has all the makings of a paint-by-numbers Bond girl.

[kismet]

I think I can't warm up to Poppy because she has all the makings of a paint-by-numbers Bond girl.

Maybe the stand-in for the actress playing the Bond girl.

[Morrigan2575]

I think I can't warm up to Poppy because she has all the makings of a paint-by-numbers Bond girl.

Bad Acting

Bad lines

Minimal interaction with Oliver and no interaction with any other characters.

She's really more of a caricature then a character, IMO.

Plus the ridiculously bad accent makes it really hard (from the outset) to take her seriously.

[doesntworkonwood]

Bad Acting

Bad lines

Minimal interaction with Oliver and no interaction with any other characters.

She's really more of a caricature then a character, IMO.

Plus the ridiculously bad accent makes it really hard (from the outset) to take her seriously.

Plus if you add the boring storyline, she's so easy to forget it's unreal. 

[tarotx]

I think removing her would help the Flashbacks. They would be shorter yet still showing Lost Oliver's 4th year. I wish we could be done with this FB mid season. Than perhaps Oliver can be Bonded out on ARGUS missions. They can periodically show Oliver having to randomly torture someone, kill someone and sex it up with a random girl.

Edited November 15, 2015 by tarotx

[KirkB]

To each their own but I'm not sure anything would help the flashacks. I tolerated them in the first season because they were necessary for setting up the background and since Slade was the villain they more or less worked in season two also, though I thought they started becoming longer and more random. By three I thought we were done with the island and I hoped done with the flashbacks too, but I knew that wasn't going to happen. Now we're back on the island with a bunch of people who I don't know and don't care about, and yet they keep cutting away from the stuff I do like to watch them.

[Morrigan2575]

When it comes to the Flashbacks I think you either love them or hate them. Personally, I hate them. I accepted them in S1 and even liked them once Slade/shado showed up but by S2 I was bored again.

The only interesting thing about the S4 flashback is Tector (I have no idea what the character/actor name is but, that's the character he played on Falling Skies. I find Poppy the worst offender because she's 90% plot point whose only purpose seems to be random LI.

[bijoux]

I liked season 2 flashbacks more than not because they were (mostly) relevant and they had Anatoly in them. A droll bastard after my own taste. I laughed so hard at him at times. Like the time they were deciding whether to exchange Hendrick for Oliver and the preacher was posing the question of what made their lives more valuable. We have explosive. He does not. He's the whole reason why I was anxious for Russia and the Bratva in this year's flashbacks.

[AyChihuahua]

I liked season 2 flashbacks more than not because they were (mostly) relevant and they had Anatoly in them. A droll bastard after my own taste. I laughed so hard at him at times. Like the time they were deciding whether to exchange Hendrick for Oliver and the preacher was posing the question of what made their lives more valuable. We have explosive. He does not. He's the whole reason why I was anxious for Russia and the Bratva in this year's flashbacks.

I LOVE Anatoly.  Far more than is healthy, considering he's Bratva.  The actor has charisma; the character was interesting and fun.  I can't wait to see him again.

 

Poppy is 100% a fail, as IMO is Reiter with his bugged-out eyes to convey all intense emotions.  She's boring as hell, and it's definitely partly on the actress.  She's just kinda there.  At this point I'll be grossed out if Oliver bangs her, bc she's basically his prisoner and that would be pretty rapey, and putting that aside entirely, she's such a non-entity it'd make me question his romantic taste.  

[kismet]

At this point, I think I'd rather see him bang a coconut...

I guess in fb time has been over 2 years since he got any action. But I feel like he could hold off just a little longer.

Edited November 16, 2015 by kismet

[kismet]

I'm going back and forth about whether campaign manager guy is going to turn out to be evil. On one hand, having him be evil would be a little too reminiscent of the DJ guy last year. But on the other hand, he seemed like he forgave Thea for beating the crap out of that guy wayyyyyy too easily. So now I'm somewhat suspicious.

The two situations aren't really close to each other at all, but somehow I'm reminded of Lex and Helen in Smallville.

For me he is such a non-entity. In many ways, the biggest thing I wonder about is how long before he gets killed either as a result of being in on the secret or being kept out of the loop. For me he’s like Eddie (or even Tommy for that matter) in that he has an expiration date on him. Is his death going to be important to the narrative and mean something (Tommy)? Or is it just gonna happen and be forgotten (Eddie)?

 

He really serves no bigger purpose to the story or characters. Even as a love interest, he is just there. I agree with people who think the chemistry between him & WH is less than fireworks. There is some chemistry but it’s not spectacular. He’s a placeholder and a plot foil. So who he really is, to me is not important.

 

Occasionally, I do & did wonder if he is working for DD, HIVE or another bad guy. However, I don’t even think it really matters who he works work. Mainly now, I just wonder when is he going to die. And I seriously do wonder if the writers go completely Troll on us and put him in the grave instead of a major cast member. They’ll find some bullsh*t that his role was impactful to the characters and the core of the story.

[Password]

#BringBackRoy

[Guest]

#BringBackRoy

 

Haha. I was actually going to say that I missed Roy. Now that I've seen Thea with her new love interest, there's just no chemistry there but she had plenty with Roy. I never really thought CH was that great an actor but he did sometimes bring a certain warmth. 

[kismet]

This in relation to Laurel made me laugh that BM has essentially become Laurel 2.0 in terms of sucky introductions to the audience. As with Laurel, the way they thought they were writing BM was as a strong, brave woman who was protecting her child at all costs...and what the audience thought was "unreasonable b*tch". Introductions count, and they must be tone deaf to get this sort of thing wrong so often - let the constant attempts to rehab the character begin.

Also, I'm sure at some point SA, when asked, said he never met the BM actress on her first appearance in S2 because he wasn't on set the day her scene was done. So, if my memory is correct then that would indicate no chemistry test before casting? If the plan was always to have BM be 'real part of the show' as is per AK interview (whatever that may mean) then shouldn't they have learned that introducing a female character by having them open to the perception of being mean to Oliver (and, now, by extension Felicity) is the wrong way to go. They still have Exhibit A - Laurel as a constant reminder of how it can all go so terribly wrong.

You are totally right that first impressions matter... I'm gonna do something, I didn't think I would do at this stage in the game. I'm gonna defend BM. I hate the way they are writing BM. In fact, I hate her character the most of all the ARROW cast right now as a result of the writing.

 

But besides having sex with OQ at least once and then keeping the baby a secret from him for probably a variety of valid & invalid reasons. We really know absolutely nothing about her. We don't know how many people she slept with or if they used protection or not. So to make jabs at her sexual behavior or comment on her lack of using protection is just mildly offensive to me as a female. I feel like people are in someways trying to shame her for either making a mistake or having some unfortunate accident happen with the birth control and that is just not right.

 

We do know she is a liar and IMO sort of a b*tch. But the child did seem well-adjusted. The house seemed nice and well-kept. The boy seemed happy & well-fed. So it does seem like she is doing a decent job raising her kid on first impression. The whole lying and overly demanding of OQ, seemed emotional and vindictive to me, which speaks to her characterization and why I dislike her so much. As was her high and mighty attitude towards OQ, when frankly it takes two to make a baby they way they made William. I feel like even in my hate we don't know enough about BM and why she made some of the decisions she made to really judge her as an actual character.

 

Also, I have to give her some credit that she is raising a child on her own. Single parenthood is hard. And as for cashing the million or 2 million dollar check. I give her props for trying to do it on her own. I also think that what happened is that she cashed the first check to give her a good place to start from and then kept the other check as evidence. Which kudos to her to think about keeping something in case the Queens ever came a knocking.

 

As for the chemistry test, I did see some chemistry between SA & the actress. It certainly not something to get a new trailer for, build a new set or anything to that nature. But I found their scenes interesting to watch. I didn't immediately dread any second they spent in each other's presence from an acting perspective or feel that void of chemistry. As a recurring guest star, I could see her being enjoyable to watch, on the condition they improve the writing and keep the contrived drama to a minimum.

[tv echo]

But besides having sex with OQ at least once and then keeping the baby a secret from him for probably a variety of valid & invalid reasons. We really know absolutely nothing about her. We don't know how many people she slept with or if they used protection or not. So to make jabs at her sexual behavior or comment on her lack of using protection is just mildly offensive to me as a female. I feel like people are in someways trying to shame her for either making a mistake or having some unfortunate accident happen with the birth control and that is just not right.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but my criticism of BM was in response to her comments to Oliver in 408 which indicated that she blamed Oliver for everything and took no responsibility for her own involvement.  Unless Oliver raped her (which no one has claimed), there were two people having consensual sex with co-equal responsibility for using protection.  (Now if the condom broke, then it was an accident.)  As for her behavior, sexual or otherwise, I don't care how many people she slept with.  However, I assume that she knew Oliver had a girlfriend (it seemed to have been well publicized) but slept with him anyway so I think that's fair game for criticism.  She also knew that Oliver was a rich playboy who was constantly in the news.  So her comments about paparazzi and getting young girls pregnant seemed to blame Oliver for everything and imply that it was only Oliver's responsibility to have protection.

 

However, if we learn in a flashback that Oliver pursued and seduced her and told her that he and Laurel had broken up, then I'll take back my criticism on that point.  But that still wouldn't excuse her lying about the $2M, keeping his son a secret from Oliver, or making the unreasonable demand that he deceive his girlfriend (which not telling Felicity would amount to because he'd have to lie to her every time he visited William).

Edited December 7, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my criticism of BM was in response to her comments to Oliver in 408 which indicated that she blamed Oliver for everything and took no responsibility for her own involvement.  Unless Oliver raped her (which no one has claimed), there were two people having consensual sex with co-equal responsibility for using protection.  (Now if the condom broke, then it was an accident.)  As for her behavior, sexual or otherwise, I don't care how many people she slept with.  However, I assume that she knew Oliver had a girlfriend (it seemed to have been well publicized) but slept with him anyway so I think that's fair game for criticism.  She also knew that Oliver was a rich playboy who was constantly in the news.  So her comments about paparazzi and getting young girls pregnant seemed to blame Oliver for everything and imply that it was only Oliver's responsibility to have protection.

 

However, if we learn in a flashback that Oliver pursued and seduced her and told her that he and Laurel had broken up, then I'll take back my criticism on that point.  But that still wouldn't excuse her lying about the $2M, keeping his son a secret from Oliver, or making the unreasonable demand that he deceive his girlfriend (which not telling Felicity would amount to because he'd have to lie to her every time he visited William).

It wasn't your criticism I was talking about :) And I do think she deserves some criticism as my initial post indicated, I just think some people (not just here) were taking the criticism a little too far out of the realm of what is known about her and what is pure speculation. Her comments to OQ were out of line considering she was most likely a willing partner and shared responsibility in what happened. We really have no idea what went down between them besides the obvious sex and lie about the child. I just don't like when females are degraded in this general fandom for common things that most people do. And an accidental pregnancy is something that happens every day.

[verbalme]

Rewatching the latest episode has me thinking that something is up with Alex Davis. He can't just be "the political strategist/TQ's love interest".

Plus he was probably the one who knows where the car with OQ and FS is going. He didn't look thrilled w OQ's idea to clean up the Bay too. Keeping my eye on him when the hiatus ends.

[Morrigan2575]

It's possible but, I would hope not since they just did that exact plot with DJ DBag in S3.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[KirkB]

I suspect (I may be wrong, who knows) Alex is a red herring, because I'd like to think the show runners wouldn't try the same trick twice, though I wouldn't put it past them. He's probably supposed to make you think he's secretly conniving with Dark or Malcolm, and Thea might even break up with him because of it, only for it to be revealed he was genuinely just trying to help or in love with her right before he dies.

Edited December 13, 2015 by KirkB

[bijoux]

I've got to admit, I've lost my interest in Alex. He seemed to have potential when he first showed up and asking Thea out in a convoluted way was cute. But now he's just sort of there. There should be more to him. What if he isn't in cahoots with Darhk or Malcolm, but let's say someone at least somewhat fighting the good fight and they want to check Team Arrow out?

[statsgirl]

If Alex is a red herring, they need to give him some suspicious moments, a mysterious phone call, looking for something in Oliver's desk when he shouldn't be.  Right now, he's just Blandy McBlanderson.

[bijoux]

He did look a bit weird at the beach during the cleanup. But that could be the remaining unease with Thea after he witnessed her physically assaulting a guy. Or maybe they had bad sex the night before.

[kismet]

I find Alex extremely boring. At this point they need to do something with him. I thought at first he might be a secret bad guy but I don't see DD or MM needing a secret bad guy spying on TA. I really think his sole purpose was to be the guy in the grave if the writers chicken out and not kill a main cast member.

[Primal Slayer]

They just need to give him something to do instead of giving him 5 minutes of screen time total between his 2 appearances. At least get their moneys worth out of the guy. His/Thea's relationship is practically non-existent.

[bijoux]

Did they say where Ray is? I know he wants to find a new purpose, but they never said specifically where his next port of call is, right? Not like with Sara going to visit Dinah.

[statsgirl]

I have the feeling we'll find out what Ray is doing in the first episode of LoT.  Now that we know all about the Hawks and Sara, there have to be some surprises, right?

[kismet]

I thought he recognised Alex too, Thea was the one to 'react' simply because he was looking in her general direction. I think Alex is definitely targeting the Queen family for some as yet unknown reason, he made the first move with Thea even though it was inappropriate , was against the bay area clean up and organised the tree lighting ceremony...

I'm probably trying to make Alex more poignant and pivotal than he probably is... but I do wonder if he is somehow connected to DD. Perhaps he is what DD hoped Anarky would be. Get himself in tight with the mayoral campaign and help to control it from the inside. DD seems like a guy who has multiple irons in the fire to achieve his goals.

 

If we bring comparisons to Disney Villains... part of me also feels DD may be the Ursula of Villains, where people come to him to broker deals to get certain things and in the end sign away their souls. Perhaps Alex is trying to get something more out of the Queen's mayoral run than just OQ elected. My theory is that Alex is still trying to seek out revenge over the Undertaking. It would make sense that he would target the Queens. Because somebody arranged the limo and I can't help but think that Alex somehow is feeding DD information.

 

Also if the writers chicken out and put Alex in the grave instead of main cast member. They could put in a quick redemptive arc where Alex explains his actions and has a quick turn of conscience (similar to Blood in s2). That would explain then why OQ thinks it is his responsibility to end the likes of DD because he manipulates & uses the weak & vulnerable. It would also explain why years ago he might have thought what Alex did or the Undertaking was his fault because the Old Oliver would take fault for everything, whereas the new Oliver recognizes that it is not his fault, but rather his responsibility to protect others. As for the tears, I think OQ is just more in touch with his emotions, perhaps he sheds a tear over the loss of life. As for BA being there, just a buddy lending a shoulder to cry on - plus if its connected to big bad it could be BA coming to lend his help. I think BA would have made a more valiant effort to get to a TA or TA adjacent death.

[NumberCruncher]

Man, Elysia Rotaru sounds like such a nice, intelligent person in all of her interviews and social media interactions. It's really too bad that she's stuck in the boring flashback scenes in an even more boring character role. Then again, at least we don't have to deal with that character in the present day story.

[bijoux]

I would like to give her a break and I do to a great extent because the part is seriously underwritten. However, she has made some seriously bad acting choices. That I can't ignore.

[Guest]

You know, Alex being an undercover bad guy/Thea's love interest is kind of repetitive to DJ Douche from s3 but at the same time I don't even care because he's so dull right now he needs to be given something. Anything! He's so bland I don't even acknowledge him in scenes.

[kismet]

It would be repetitive to a certain degree... but if they gave him a better motive than DJ Douchebag who seemed to have no motive but was rather just a LoA on assignment. He could be seeking justice or revenge, a misguided choice but it would at least give me a reason to care that he is on the screen. Plus, I'm still trying to figure out why a campaign manager was needed for an unopposed mayoral race of a city where the last 2 or 3 mayors were murdered or never made it to election day. It would seem like he would need a security detail not a campaign manager. So his character feels like a logic fail both in and out of show.

 

At least with DJ douchebag, Thea was hiring DJs. Or maybe the theme should just be that Thea avoid future hirings should Alex be bad to.

[tv echo]

Alex could be a rogue member of DD's extended family, who's always rebelling against DD, but who DD can't kill because he's blood family.  Maybe he'll end up trying to protect Thea against DD and dying as a result.

 

I envision a scene where Speedy and Alex in HIVE soldier disguise fight each other (like Buffy and Riley in BtVS) and discover each other's secret identity.

Edited December 16, 2015 by tv echo

[Guest]

I don't even care what he is but there definitely needs to be something. They made it sound like Alex would be a big love interest and by episode 5 'Thea would be wondering 'Roy who?' and I've not yet seen that at all. Plus I still can't see any chemistry between them. I'm just not sure what the point of him is tbh. 

[Password]

#BringBackRoy