S09.E08: The Apple Doesn't Fall Far From the Alibi

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Fiona’s downward spiral continues and Debbie steps in to pick up the slack at the Gallagher house. Carl and Kelly continue their relationship in secret despite her father’s strict expectations. Ingrid ropes Frank into fulfilling her lifelong dream. Tami shows Lip a different version of adulthood.

Original air date: 1/20/19

Edited January 23, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

Clip:

[scrb]

Peg Bundy wants Frank's old sperm, which is dead from all the narcotics.

So he gets Karl's spunk to fertilize Peg's frozen eggs.

Meanwhile, Debs becomes the CPA for the family finances, manages to convince the utility and cable companies to cut her a break.

Yeah right.

Meanwhile Fiona has stopped giving a shit about keeping the family home running or for that matter the diner running smoothly.  She's going to drink and smoke all day now that she doesn't have a man and her real estate mogul dreams are gone.

Karl starts preying on hipster scooters in another money scheme with his military gf, who's gorging on their beer and junk food, while Lip's bossy basic blonde gf tries to get "stabby" to raise his standard of living.

Kev and Veronica adopt a boy who turns out to have been separated from his family, which was seeking asylum.  Sounds like they pulled this story idea from the headlines but he may not be around too long.

 

These are the last half dozen or so episodes with Fiona?  So they have to do something meaningful with the character right?  She's going away to a better life somehow?  It would be out of character for her to leave her siblings behind though.

[chocolatine]

Um, Kevin, you already have a son. The one who's also Veronica's half-brother. I hated that storyline at the time, so I'm sort of glad the show is pretending that it never happened. But I also hate this storyline, because Kevin and Veronica can barely afford the children they already have. Kevin is a dimwit, so I don't expect better of him, but Veronica should have shut this idea down in no uncertain terms.

Fiona only has herself to blame for her current situation. If she hadn't acted impulsively but done a few days of research - all building permits, including applications, are public record - she could have sold her building to the condo developers and made a tidy profit. I also think she's going to get fired from Patsy's. The one waitress who seems really competent obviously wants the manager job, so she's going to tell the owner about Fiona's behavior. 

Lip's girlfriend is incredibly crass, even compared to the Southside crew. I also don't see any affection between them. If Lip has to have an endgame, I want Mandy to get out of "escorting" and reconnect with him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Lip's new girlfriend needs to STFU. Why should he have to get a new place just because you two are banging now? I don't care if her excuse is that her name's on the lease where she's living with all of those other people. If she really wanted to make it work, she would find a way. Instead she is just telling Lip to get an apartment he can't afford and criticizing him, his life, and his family. I mean, I get that sharing underwear is gross but I still want her to STFU. If Lip's house and habits aren't good enough for you, feel free to find someone else.

I had to laugh at Carl's moneymaking scheme to charge all those scooters because that's a real thing. Some people have gotten ridiculously competitive about it in the last year.

I liked seeing Debbie step up and be responsible. I like her a lot better that way (as opposed to whiny irresponsible Debbie).

Speaking of irresponsible, Fiona. I get that she's mad that she got ripped off, but that's her own fault. Yes, she was desperate but if she had time to plan an open house for her building, she also had time to do some research and due diligence. She already lost one source of income (rent from the building tenants) and she's about to lose her other source of income because she isn't doing anything useful at Patsy's these days.

I'm glad Vee found someone to translate for Santiago. I felt so bad for that kid being shuffled around without knowing what anyone was saying to him (aside from "national anthem" and "trabajo").

Frank continues to be disgusting in every way.

Where the hell was Liam?

[WhosThatGirl]

Well. Debbie got cool this episode and she’s been terrible for the last couple of seasons. Maybe everyone else has just become so terrible she’s the only one I could tolerate.

Are we supposed to feel for Fiona? This cycle is exhausting actually. I get cycles repeat themsleves but I’m already super over where they plan on going with her this season.

Everything else was.. fine I guess. I’m pretty meh. I’m pretty sure this is my last season, I’m just here to see how they say goodbye to Fiona.

[Dee]

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Kevin is a dimwit, so I don't expect better of him, but Veronica should have shut this idea down in no uncertain terms.

Kevin is a TERRIBLE husband. Veronica deserves much better.

[Chaos Theory]

The only story I didn’t like was Kevin and Vee and their adoption story.  It was way too on the nose for me.

The rest at least had the potential to be interesting.  Lip and his low class sensibilities dating someone who doesn’t like slumbing it.  Debbie going around with not quite enough money but still managing to pay the bills.  Carl and his girlfriend steeling scooters to make money and Fiona and her continued downward spiral.  Even Frank and Ingrid were entertaining.   

What I really like about Shameless   is that the story lines all show how the Gallagher kids both are and aren’t like their parents.  They may all screw up epically and hit rock bottom but what makes them different is that they all eventually do ask for help.   Fiona never really hit rock bottom even with her prison story she more then anything got scared straight.  I am thinking this is her rock bottom.  The question becomes will she get help before she becomes Frank.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[preeya]

So I guess Fiona will be on a "binge spin" until she hits rock bottom and leaves the show.

Wondering what the endgame will be, rehab or death?

[Tikichick]

Am I the only one who expected the record producer to discover a big winner on the scratch off ticket and take off with it?  Sure wish Lip would engage his brain and ditch this new chick.  I don't see any way she becomes redeemable enough to be at his level. 

[sadie]

I know I’ll watch till the end but this just isn’t enjoyable anymore. Fiona’s story arc is just dumb. She’s a capable multi tasker running Patsys and doing real state and now she’s a day drunk that can’t even function except for picking gum off tables and insulting customers? They do live like pigs so I’ll give Lips new girlfriend a point for that, every time I watch the opening sequence all I want to do is clean that bathroom. Dish soap in the shower, ummm okay.

Keven and Vee have turned into ridiculous caricatures and Franks dumb antics just get dumber. Katy Seagal is about 55 but we’re supposed to buy this baby story. Cmon writers, you don’t have to turn all these stories into some fairy tale endings but this revolving door of dumb is wearing thin.

i saw an article where William H Macy said the show allowed him to buy a house in Colorado so I think we get his motivations for staying on with this dreck but gosh it’s gotten so bad.

[sadie]

12 minutes ago, sadie said:

I know I’ll watch till the end but this just isn’t enjoyable anymore. Fiona’s story arc is just dumb. She’s a capable multi tasker running Patsys and doing real state and now she’s a day drunk that can’t even function except for picking gum off tables and insulting customers? They do live like pigs so I’ll give Lips new girlfriend a point for that, every time I watch the opening sequence all I want to do is clean that bathroom. Dish soap in the shower, ummm okay.

Keven and Vee have turned into ridiculous caricatures and Franks dumb antics just get dumber. Katy Seagal is about 55 but we’re supposed to buy this baby story. Cmon writers, you don’t have to turn all these stories into some fairy tale endings but this revolving door of dumb is wearing thin.

i saw an article where William H Macy said the show allowed him to buy a house in Colorado so I think we get his motivations for staying on with this dreck but gosh it’s gotten so bad.

I just looked it up, Katy Sagal is 65! Nothing wrong with being 65 (she looks great) but the baby story is even dumber. WHM is almost 70. 

[Chaos Theory]

From what I read it’s not completely impossible for women in their sixties to have babies.  They have to do it via in vitro though.  I am not sure how I feel about Carl being the potential father.  It’s a retread of season 1 where Lip thought he might be a dad but it would be interesting if he found out he was unintionialyl the father of Ingrid’s baby considering how mentally ill she is.   Would he be ok with Frank raiseing  his kid...unintentrd or not?  It would be an interesting story for the actor to play.  

Edited January 23, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[iMonrey]

We're already seen Fiona spiral out of control so it's annoying to have to see it all over again. I did like seeing Debbie step up to the plate and take care of the bills but both Carl and Lip's girlfriends are annoying appendages. Women are the downfall of the Gallagher men (as are men the downfall of Fiona). I'll admit, though, I get a kick out of the way this show parodies the hipsters. The people coming out of yoga class being extorted by Carl and what's her name was kind of funny.

Yeah, the show's on its last legs.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The people coming out of yoga class being extorted by Carl and what's her name was kind of funny.

"Technically, it's racketeering."

[LibertarianSlut]

This come back was...not good.  I was very bored.  

I didn't enjoy the scooter storyline because it didn't make any sense.  It started off as Carl saying he was going to steal the scooters, because he could make a lot of money re-selling them on the South Side, and he could get the GPS off in about "two seconds."  What sense does it make that they would switch to re-charging the batteries for a mere $15 a pop?  Is that somehow more lucrative?  I also didn't like it as it seemed like a re-tread of the Wyman/Ruiz sign-stealing debacle. There seemed to be so much time spent on the scooter stealing too.  It was like damn near half of the episode, and it really was not compelling TV.

Plus, Carl is supposed to be trying to get into West Point.  It seems like ever since he got out of juvie, Carl has been laser-focused on his project at hand, and not much gets in his way. I'm not trying to start an Original Shameless vs Evolved Shameless discussion, but if he is serious about West Point, I don't think Carl would be committing larceny in broad daylight, or at least I don't think Kelly would endorse it.

Fiona's downfall also makes no sense to me.  Max gave her $292k for the apartment building so that she could raise the additional $25k for the retirement home and pay the mortgage on the Gallagher home.  Then she gets all bent out of shape to see that he listed it for $175k, aka at a huge loss?? Did I read that scene right?  Because of the deal Fiona made with Max, she still does have her ownership interest in the retirement home, on which building was delayed a year because of the permit situation, which means it's still going to get built. She also still has the Gallagher home, which was a huge deal for her to keep a few seasons back.  She still has her job at Patsy's, so why such a quick, head spinning, faster-than-Lip downfall?  I get that things went south with Ford right around this time too, but Fiona usually doesn't let either of those things get her down. In the old days, she could shake it off with a night at the club or a Tinder swipe.  The binge drinking doesn't make sense.  

I was somewhat enjoying the foster child storyline--I thought they were going to get another Esther in how good this kid was--until it became too topical.  Hey guess what Shameless, unless you really want to get into it, don't try to tell the story of the caravan.  It's way too complicated to be reduced to a bunch of sound bytes by ignorant bar flies.  Plus, there is what was said upthread that Kev has that other child, Dominique, for whom he takes no responsibility.  No one has to tell the kids that they're half-sisters and half-brother while they are also half-nieces and half-uncle.  I think it would fuck them up too much.  But Kev should be around for Dominique as a "father figure" before he tries to add additional kids to his family.

The jury is still out on whether I am a fan of that "stabby" girl for Lip.  At least the show is treading new ground here.  

I second the question of "where is Liam?"  He is a main character.  He lives there.  I don't think the show can just say, "well, we didn't know what to do with Liam this week, so we didn't tell his story."  Shameless has never worked that way with the Gallagher nuclear family that I can recall. Ian even got a shout-out for cripe's sake.  

I liked Deb this episode, and the revival of the Crisco jar, but a.) who is watching Frannie?  I know the one scene that they actually showed her in the play pen, Carl was asleep on the couch, which seemed like enough oversite, but overall it seems as if Deb comes and goes as she pleases these days without having a solid child care plan.  She doesn't seem like a bad enough mother to leave the kid alone, so I think it's just lazy writing.  Since we know Deb doesn't have a car, how much would it cost the show for the abuela to be seen dipping in and out with the kid and a diaper bag here and there, the way they always seemed to show Liam being watched over by Sheila or Carl staying with Kev and Vee in the early days? Also, b.) why doesn't Deb walk with a slight limp?  She lost her three outer toes.  I get the feeling that she is not utilizing a well-fitted prosthetic, so why not have the character walk with a very subtle limp for the show's duration?  I think she did that for exactly one episode, and I am not crazy about the inconsistency.

Frank's storyline?  At least it feels like new territory, although someone pointed out that Ian had a similar storyline earlier in the series, which I guess I've just forgotten.  I did think it was funny that there was no hesitation on Frank's part to get Carl's sperm and make him a father without his consent, but right now I feel like I'm damning with faint praise.  It's definitely time to hang up this show, writers!

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

We're already seen Fiona spiral out of control so it's annoying to have to see it all over again. I did like seeing Debbie step up to the plate and take care of the bills but both Carl and Lip's girlfriends are annoying appendages. Women are the downfall of the Gallagher men (as are men the downfall of Fiona). I'll admit, though, I get a kick out of the way this show parodies the hipsters. The people coming out of yoga class being extorted by Carl and what's her name was kind of funny.

Yeah, the show's on its last legs.

Yeah, we’ve already seen Fiona go though a downward spiral and even though I hated it then it made a hell of a lot more sense than this one does. 

[preeya]

I'm thinking they're calling Lip Jabby, not Stabby.

[kieyra]

Are we supposed to believe that the same people are writing this show as were writing it 4-5 years ago?

[LibertarianSlut]

Is it possible Liam is still on that boat? If this episode picks up where the last one left off, that's probably where he is.

[chocolatine]

9 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Is it possible Liam is still on that boat? If this episode picks up where the last one left off, that's probably where he is.

I thought so too. It's still summer on the show.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I thought so too. It's still summer on the show.

Yeah this isn’t so much of a season opening as it’s a mid season opener so it’s only probably been a little bit of time since the last episode ended.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The jury is still out on whether I am a fan of that "stabby" girl for Lip.  At least the show is treading new ground here.  

Not really. He had a similar relationships with Amanda in college: rich girl slumming with the poor boy for the sex and bad boy vibes. She tried to fix him up too. In fact she did quite a lot for him and he dumped her ass.

[Chaos Theory]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Not really. He had a similar relationships with Amanda in college: rich girl slumming with the poor boy for the sex and bad boy vibes. She tried to fix him up too. In fact she did quite a lot for him and he dumped her ass.

The difference is Amanda LIKED slumming with Lip and did it in large part to annoy her father.   Lip new girlfriend (whose name escapes me) thinks his house is gross and actually LIKES living in a rich neighborhood.  The push/pull is what makes it fairly interesting because Lip has always been more comfortable in his own neighborhood and out of his element everywhere else and he has found a girl who won’t slum it with him.

[whiporee]

Just because it's my pet peeve, what Max did was illegal. Also, the people who live in Fiona's building have leases. Also, condo permitting takes time, especially if you're getting rid of low-income or low-cost housing. Also, demolition permits take even longer, especially for old buildings that undoubtably have asbestos somewhere.  Gentrification was a big storyline a few years ago -- I actually like that one -- and it's been brushed over because Fiona should feel bad that she only has 100K in equity in a housing development -- equity, by the way, she can always sell. 

What is she spending all the money on, BTW? If she's being given bill money, where's it going? On Stoli and Marlboros? 

Every plot we saw last night is a retread in one form or the other. Frank's thing is a sort of retread of Sheila. Lip is a retread of Amanda. Carl is a retread of everything Carl has ever done on the show. Fiona is a retread of everything we saw post brother sex. Kev and Vee have already had a foster kid, haven't they? 

I didn't have high hopes, but yuck.

Edited January 24, 2019 by whiporee

[Dee]

On 1/21/2019 at 5:42 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Is it possible Liam is still on that boat? If this episode picks up where the last one left off, that's probably where he is.

Liam traveled to St. Croix over Spring Break. He's been attending public school & helping Fiona since then.

[WhosThatGirl]

25 minutes ago, whiporee said:

Just because it's my pet peeve, what Max did was illegal. Also, the people who live in Fiona's building have leases. Also, condo permitting takes time, especially if you're getting rid of low-income or low-cost housing. Also, demolition permits take even longer, especially for old buildings that undoubtably have asbestos somewhere.  Gentrification was a big storyline a few years ago -- I actually like that one -- and it's been brushed over because Fiona should feel bad that she only has 100K in equity in a housing development -- equity, by the way, she can always sell. 

What is she spending all the money on, BTW? If she's being given bill money, where's it going? On Stoli and Marlboros? 

Every plot we saw last night is a retread in one form or the other. Frank's thing is a sort of retread of Sheila. Lip is a retread of Amanda. Carl is a retread of everything Carl has ever done on the show. Fiona is a retread of everything we saw post brother sex. Kev and Vee have already had a foster kid, haven't they? 

I didn't have high hopes, but yuck.

Just because it's my pet peeve, what Max did was illegal. Also, the people who live in Fiona's building have leases. Also, condo permitting takes time, especially if you're getting rid of low-income or low-cost housing. Also, demolition permits take even longer, especially for old buildings that undoubtably have asbestos somewhere.  Gentrification was a big storyline a few years ago -- I actually like that one -- and it's been brushed over because Fiona should feel bad that she only has 100K in equity in a housing development -- equity, by the way, she can always sell. 

What is she spending all the money on, BTW? If she's being given bill money, where's it going? On Stoli and Marlboros? 

Every plot we saw last night is a retread in one form or the other. Frank's thing is a sort of retread of Sheila. Lip is a retread of Amanda. Carl is a retread of everything Carl has ever done on the show. Fiona is a retread of everything we saw post brother sex. Kev and Vee have already had a foster kid, haven't they? 

I didn't have high hopes, but yuck.

Yup, Kevin and Veronica used to foster many kids, but then we saw one they coated, the young girl who I believe grew up in a Mormon type life and had an old husband and she met someone from the Southside and they ran away together. I think she also had a baby? Because she ran away in their care, they couldn’t foster any more kids, when Fiona asked if she could take the Gallagher’s for a short time when frank called CPS she found out they weren’t allowed to anymore. I wondered if the show forgot this.

[LibertarianSlut]

On 1/22/2019 at 4:41 PM, iMonrey said:

Not really. He had a similar relationships with Amanda in college: rich girl slumming with the poor boy for the sex and bad boy vibes. She tried to fix him up too. In fact she did quite a lot for him and he dumped her ass.

 I guess my judgment is skewed because I floved Amanda maybe more than any other tangential character that's ever been on the show, and I thought Lip should have married her, but I think the "jabby" girl is more rough around the edges and maybe not too far from South Side herself.  I don't see Amanda showing up plastered, yelling obscenities and vomiting on shoes at important family functions--I think Amanda kept her freak more or less to herself--but I agree there's a comparison to be made as far as people in the Shameless universe go.  Similar archetypes. 

2 hours ago, Dee said:

Liam traveled to St. Croix over Spring Break. He's been attending public school & helping Fiona since then.

Oh man. Where's Liam?  

2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yup, Kevin and Veronica used to foster many kids, but then we saw one they coated, the young girl who I believe grew up in a Mormon type life and had an old husband and she met someone from the Southside and they ran away together. I think she also had a baby? Because she ran away in their care, they couldn’t foster any more kids, when Fiona asked if she could take the Gallagher’s for a short time when frank called CPS she found out they weren’t allowed to anymore. I wondered if the show forgot this.

Ethyl and Jonah were the foster girl and her baby.  I loooved that storyline.  Kev and Vee also got guilt-tripped into fostering that group of child veterans from a civil war in Myanmar/Burma, one of whom turned out to be a girl.  I loved that storyline too, even though I think Kev and Vee are two of the most despicable people on this show at this point, so go figure.  

BTW, could they be writing Kevin any dumber if they tried?  Is it supposed to make him...endearing?  Spare me.

[yourmomiseasy]

On 1/20/2019 at 12:07 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had to laugh at Carl's moneymaking scheme to charge all those scooters because that's a real thing. Some people have gotten ridiculously competitive about it in the last year.

 

There was big drama on Nextdoor in my area a while back because someone jumped someone else's fence to take charging scooters from their backyard.

[DrSpaceman73]

Is Fiona still on probation?

Will she go back to jail if she is caught drinking, loses her job she obtained as part of a work release and generally acting like the drunk ass she has been lately?

If she is on probation she eventually has to meet her probation officer. That won't go well. 

The new girlfriend for lip is a pushy bitch.  SHe is hot, that is all she has going for her. 

And back to Fiona, really all that happened was some douchebag vanilla boyfriend turned out to be married.  That guy added nothing to the show, or to her, just the flavor of the month, get over him.  They never really had any chemistry or seemed to have anything in common

She actually came out even or still ahead with the real estate deal, which isn't bad.  Not like she lost money and is in debt. 

[ReganX]

On 29 January 2019 at 1:11 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Is Fiona still on probation?

She actually came out even or still ahead with the real estate deal, which isn't bad.  Not like she lost money and is in debt. 

I think it was three years probation from mid-Season Four, so that should have ended a couple of years ago.

Financially, Fiona isn't doing all that badly, at least not if she doesn't get herself fired from Patsy's. She owns the Gallagher house outright, has a $100k investment in the nursing home (assuming that it wasn't a scam, but if it was, it's bound to come out before season's end) and a steady wage as manager of Patsy's. I don't know what the average wage for the manager of a Chicago diner would be, and it's a fairly safe bet that Patsy's would pay at the lower end of the scale, but I would still expect her income to be sufficient to support her, Liam and Carl. The others are all adults.