S20.E12: Dear Ben

[SuzieQ]

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I agree that it's a highlight which is why I mentioned it! :-)

 

OOPS!  :)

[Cotypubby]

Hey look at that, an episode where Benson is on the sidelines for the most part and it’s actually an interesting show! Other than the stupid Noah scenes at the beginning and end, it was actually good!

I don’t see how giving dna to those sites is a bad thing. So they used it to find a serial rapist. That’s bad because...? Don’t commit crimes and you won’t have to worry about who has your dna.

[dttruman]

17 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I agree that it was a missed opportunity not to get a McCoy mention since I think an appearance is too much to ask for (if you were to dump Noah and add McCoy it would make for a great sweeps episode though!) Even if you think it would be too much looking backwards or take away the focus on Stone's family history to bring in McCoy why not use the golden opportunity of a huge case from back in the day to give those of us who who know the history a quick moment? I pointed out that it would have been a nice touch to have one of the signatures on the files be one of the old ADAs, but how hard would it have been to have Liv mentioned that Huang did a profile or find some way to have them come across one the name of one of the original recipe detectives in the file?

If they would have made it a two part episode, I think they could have fit everything especially the McCoy addition and your ideas for the old ADAs' signatures and Huang's profile. They would have tied everything in pretty good.

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, spunky said:

I wasn't a fan of Peter Stone when he was on Chicago Justice , I'm still not a fan. Writers this whole every man is smitten with Olivia is old. I like Carisi's friendship with Stone, and wish they would use Carisi more. This case proved why people need to stop using these DNA tests, you don't know where your information is being stored.  The case was interesting for once.

I don't care one way or another about Stone, but they seem to want to make him a major character or something when he is appears in an episode. That's fine, but I wish they could write better story lines for him. I also like the friendship with Carisi, but I wish they would write that better. Stone needs to be more of a mentor to Carisi.

I thought they had enough evidence at the preliminary, to take it to trial because California and Florida allowed it. Did they make the judge here the "heavy", so it wouldn't be allowed thereby setting up that next confrontation in the interrogation room, which conveniently was w/o his lawyer?

[dttruman]

18 hours ago, wknt3 said:

22 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Agree with most of what's already been said, but surprised no one mentioned the first suspect coming out of the bathroom and Fin saying "I'm not cuffing him"  I laughed so freaking hard!

I agree that it's a highlight which is why I mentioned it! :-)

That's my bad too, I forgot to give you credit for it also.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Hey look at that, an episode where Benson is on the sidelines for the most part and it’s actually an interesting show! Other than the stupid Noah scenes at the beginning and end, it was actually good!

I don’t see how giving dna to those sites is a bad thing. So they used it to find a serial rapist. That’s bad because...? Don’t commit crimes and you won’t have to worry about who has your dna.

I don’t want the government having access to my DNA period. That is private and I like my privacy, you sound like the type that would like to see the government take everyone’s DNA at birth and store it in a database. 

51 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I don't care one way or another about Stone, but they seem to want to make him a major character or something when he is appears in an episode. That's fine, but I wish they could write better story lines for him. I also like the friendship with Carisi, but I wish they would write that better. Stone needs to be more of a mentor to Carisi.

I thought they had enough evidence at the preliminary, to take it to trial because California and Florida allowed it. Did they make the judge here the "heavy", so it wouldn't be allowed thereby setting up that next confrontation in the interrogation room, which conveniently was w/o his lawyer?

This was definitely the best episode of season 20 for Stone, I liked seeing him get a juicy storyline that didn’t involve drinking/hooking up with women. I like the Stone/Carisi friendship and I don’t see any problems with the writing of it, Carisi doesn’t need any mentor. 

I agree that they had enough to go to trial and they definitely had the judge throw it out so they could have the final confrontation. I thought overall everything worked pretty well but it was incredibly lucky that Noone didn’t ask for Kressler. It would’ve been more interesting IMO if the judge hadn’t tossed the evidence and they had gone to trial, more courtroom scenes with Stone/Kressler would’ve been great. Still probably the best episode of the season, along with Revenge and Hell’s Kitchen IMO. 

[spunky]

8 hours ago, dttruman said:

I don't care one way or another about Stone, but they seem to want to make him a major character or something when he is appears in an episode. That's fine, but I wish they could write better story lines for him. I also like the friendship with Carisi, but I wish they would write that better. Stone needs to be more of a mentor to Carisi.

I thought they had enough evidence at the preliminary, to take it to trial because California and Florida allowed it. Did they make the judge here the "heavy", so it wouldn't be allowed thereby setting up that next confrontation in the interrogation room, which conveniently was w/o his lawyer?

All of a sudden he's willing to confess. The writers really expect us to stretch our imagination to the max sometimes.

[hookedontv]

On 1/17/2019 at 11:13 PM, Gigi43 said:

I haven't noticed before  now much I like the colors of Bensons apartment. One point for Benson.

I agree.

And while we are on this subject, I really liked the niece’s place in Brooklyn. I first noticed a cat photo hanging when Carisi and Fin were talking to her at the door, and after she let them in, there were other pet photos on the walls. I like to think her back story is that she is a pet photographer (big animal lover here.) 

I also thought she and Carisi had nice chemistry, I would like to see more of the two of them. 

[wknt3]

On 1/19/2019 at 2:00 PM, dttruman said:

If they would have made it a two part episode, I think they could have fit everything especially the McCoy addition and your ideas for the old ADAs' signatures and Huang's profile. They would have tied everything in pretty good.

That's actually not a bad idea at all - they could have split it up and saved it for sweeps. If they can't get Waterston they could have many of the rapes have taken place in the 27 and bring back Cragen as being knowledgeable about the case (and somebody who knew Ben Stone as well as the current cast.) Maybe they could even get Paul Sorvino as a big name guest star and a connection with the roots of the franchise? All sorts of ways they could have gone with this one to make it really special instead of merely pretty good.

[Xeliou66]

56 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

That's actually not a bad idea at all - they could have split it up and saved it for sweeps. If they can't get Waterston they could have many of the rapes have taken place in the 27 and bring back Cragen as being knowledgeable about the case (and somebody who knew Ben Stone as well as the current cast.) Maybe they could even get Paul Sorvino as a big name guest star and a connection with the roots of the franchise? All sorts of ways they could have gone with this one to make it really special instead of merely pretty good.

None of that would’ve worked because the Mothership characters were Homicide Detectives, all sex crimes would’ve been handled by Manhattan SVU, and no one we know was at SVU when Infinity was originally around.

They could’ve brought in Paul Robinette though since he worked with Stone and was around at the time, that would’ve been awesome. Even a reference to McCoy or Robinette or any previous character that could’ve been around would’ve been awesome, they blew an opportunity there.

[wknt3]

15 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

That's actually not a bad idea at all - they could have split it up and saved it for sweeps. If they can't get Waterston they could have many of the rapes have taken place in the 27 and bring back Cragen as being knowledgeable about the case (and somebody who knew Ben Stone as well as the current cast.) Maybe they could even get Paul Sorvino as a big name guest star and a connection with the roots of the franchise? All sorts of ways they could have gone with this one to make it really special instead of merely pretty good.

None of that would’ve worked because the Mothership characters were Homicide Detectives, all sex crimes would’ve been handled by Manhattan SVU, and no one we know was at SVU when Infinity was originally around.

They could’ve brought in Paul Robinette though since he worked with Stone and was around at the time, that would’ve been awesome. Even a reference to McCoy or Robinette or any previous character that could’ve been around would’ve been awesome, they blew an opportunity there.

I don't think it's insurmountable at all as a case like this would have had a task force created bringing in detectives from other units to assist SVU. So it would pretty easy to explain why that they were involved - it's not they were the lead, just that they worked on the case in some capacity and they were the ones they could get to come in through the connection to the current SVU squad. All you need is a line that the original primary is dead, the CO retired to the Carribean, etc. but look here who was one of the 50 detectives who worked on the case at some point. And of course in universe at that point Cragen's detectives did work on some sex crimes (ie. "Out of Control", "Discord", etc.) so there's much more grounding in continuity AND realism than most of what we've seen on this show for the past decade or so.

[Xeliou66]

And it was unrealistic in those early episodes that you mentioned, but since SVU wasn’t a TV show they had to have the homicide detectives investigating those cases if they wanted to tell stories about sex crimes. But you are right that they could’ve brought in a former character who was part of a task force to catch Infinity. McCoy would’ve definitely been the best to bring back, why didn’t they at least reference him? Robinette would’ve been great as well.

[CrystalBlue]

11 hours ago, hookedontv said:

And while we are on this subject, I really liked the niece’s place in Brooklyn. I first noticed a cat photo hanging when Carisi and Fin were talking to her at the door, and after she let them in, there were other pet photos on the walls. I like to think her back story is that she is a pet photographer (big animal lover here.) 

I also thought she and Carisi had nice chemistry, I would like to see more of the two of them. 

The niece would be perfect for Carisi!  She's pretty, smart and kind.  They would make a nice couple.

[dttruman]

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

None of that would’ve worked because the Mothership characters were Homicide Detectives, all sex crimes would’ve been handled by Manhattan SVU, and no one we know was at SVU when Infinity was originally around.

They could’ve brought in Paul Robinette though since he worked with Stone and was around at the time, that would’ve been awesome. Even a reference to McCoy or Robinette or any previous character that could’ve been around would’ve been awesome, they blew an opportunity there.

I forgot about Robinette, great reminder. But I thought the detectives back then also investigated rapes, until they brought in the SVU series. Maybe they could do it and Hargitay can spin it in her favor and she'll say something like, I did it as a tribute to the Mothership. She can't be all bad, can she?

Damn it! If I would just read down a few more comments instead of going straight to replying to a comment, I would not have to repeat what someone already mentioned. Sorry about "wknt3". My bad again.

Edited January 21, 2019 by dttruman

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, hookedontv said:

And while we are on this subject, I really liked the niece’s place in Brooklyn. I first noticed a cat photo hanging when ending a Carisi and Fin were talking to her at the door, and after she let them in, there were other pet photos on the walls. I like to think her back story is that she is a pet photographer (big animal lover here.) 

Maybe this is a new way of sending a message to the audience concerning one of the little agendas they want to push. This is a good subtle plug to be pet owners. If that's what they are doing now, I am for it.  I really hate it when they try to shove it down our throats, without tying it into the story line credibly.

Edited January 21, 2019 by dttruman

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

The niece would be perfect for Carisi!  She's pretty, smart and kind.  They would make a nice couple.

If they did, want to bet that she would become a rape victim and/ or murdered?

[wknt3]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And it was unrealistic in those early episodes that you mentioned, but since SVU wasn’t a TV show they had to have the homicide detectives investigating those cases if they wanted to tell stories about sex crimes. But you are right that they could’ve brought in a former character who was part of a task force to catch Infinity. McCoy would’ve definitely been the best to bring back, why didn’t they at least reference him? Robinette would’ve been great as well.

I'm not sure how much was a deliberate choice, and how much was the actual shifts within the NYPD between Precinct detective squads and specialist units as to who investigates what. In the early seasons they seemed to be a precinct squad before becoming Manhattan South homicide and there were some other non-murder cases. I do know in real life there have been a lot of adjustments between specialist and generalist approaches so I'm not sure if that was part of it or not or if it was something their advisors told them they were doing wrong or if it was a deliberate choice. I think it would have been better if they stuck with the original concept of mixing in some other types of cases. Of course given that SVU investigated murders and other crimes based on the smallest of connections to sexually based offenses they probably would have gotten away with it. Robinette would be great to bring back and interact with Peter Stone, but I'm not sure this is the case to do it - I'd prefer they take care of two issues at once and bring him back and have a working class minority victim and perp. They could face off against each other and then have dinner at the end instead of Stone and Benson to talk about Ben. As much as I'd love to see Robinette I really want so see him in court as well as talking about the old days. And this wasn't the case to do that with (as much as I'm OK with a little handwaving in the interests of a good story I wouldn't want to see them ignore the potential conflict or believe there was this huge case Ben Stone worked on while he was there and completely didn't involve him at all.)

[lucindabelle]

Outlier here. Found the episode confusing. Yes the DNA stuff was kind of interesting but....

 

the rapist just stopped being a rapist when he was married?

he became a rapist because he heard his dad raping his mom? 

 

He was mad because stone didn’t love him?

stone was mad because his father preferred the rapist?

 

um... anyone else think that is all ridiculous?

[Fellaway]

 

Here's a deleted scene from the ep that seems to indicate, as I suspected, that Amy might have been lined up for Carisi's girlfriend.  I wonder if the scene being deleted means yet another Carisi girlfriend has been deleted, full stop, or if she might pop up again in the future.

For the record, I could hear very little of what was said in this vid, but it also includes Rollins waxing rhapsodic about Dr. Al.  ::gag::  I do love the way Carisi slams the laptop on her.  Hee!

[CrystalBlue]

36 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

 

Here's a deleted scene from the ep that seems to indicate, as I suspected, that Amy might have been lined up for Carisi's girlfriend.  I wonder if the scene being deleted means yet another Carisi girlfriend has been deleted, full stop, or if she might pop up again in the future.

For the record, I could hear very little of what was said in this vid, but it also includes Rollins waxing rhapsodic about Dr. Al.  ::gag::  I do love the way Carisi slams the laptop on her.  Hee!

Thanks for sharing the vid!  They need to get Carisi and Amy together STAT!

[Fellaway]

1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

Thanks for sharing the vid!  They need to get Carisi and Amy together STAT!

Happy to!  And I agree!  I would not be averse to them getting together.  Carisi's long past due.  Though I gotta admit, looking at the two of them there, the actress looks like a brunette version of Bella.

[Xeliou66]

It looks like they’ve deleted another storyline for Carisi. I’m sick of Carisi constantly getting ignored in favor of more drama for Benson and Rollins, I wouldn’t mind seeing Amy show up again in the future, but I have a feeling since they deleted that scene it means another Carisi storyline has bitten the dust. 

[Fellaway]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It looks like they’ve deleted another storyline for Carisi. I’m sick of Carisi constantly getting ignored in favor of more drama for Benson and Rollins, I wouldn’t mind seeing Amy show up again in the future, but I have a feeling since they deleted that scene it means another Carisi storyline has bitten the dust. 

Totally agree, and, sadly, you're probably right.  Are they not aware there are Carisi fans out here?

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Totally agree, and, sadly, you're probably right.  Are they not aware there are Carisi fans out here?

They just don’t care about any characters other than Benson and Rollins. They want those 2 characters to get all of the focus at the expense of everyone else. At least Stone got to be at the center of this episode. 

[wknt3]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

They just don’t care about any characters other than Benson and Rollins. They want those 2 characters to get all of the focus at the expense of everyone else. At least Stone got to be at the center of this episode. 

If by they you mean the ultimate decision makers, NBC and Dick Wolf, they don't care about anyone but Benson. If you expand the definition a bit to include the producers and writers they care about Stone because he is Chernuchin's personal project. I think Rollins has gotten focus mostly as an extension of Benson as they really jumped on the idea that Benson should identify with Rollins a little bit more than she had been portrayed as before Season 19.

[DangerousMinds]

7 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Totally agree, and, sadly, you're probably right.  Are they not aware there are Carisi fans out here?

I'm a fan, but not interested in a storyline about his personal life.

[Fellaway]

On 1/23/2019 at 8:38 PM, DangerousMinds said:

I'm a fan, but not interested in a storyline about his personal life.

Yeah, I get that.  And I really don't trust these writers with not messing up his characterization for the sake of a plot.  But Carisi is why I watch, so I would love to see him front and center more.  His best eps were all during the Leight years, not surprisingly, and all case related, even the one with his brother-in-law, with fantastic character moments sprinkled in.  I'd love more of that.  But, the current regime isn't up to the standards of the Leight years.  They can't even get character balance right.  Dear Ben was the best so far, though, so maybe there's hope?

Of course, a second deleted girlfriend isn't promising.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

On 1/23/2019 at 2:19 AM, CrystalBlue said:

Thanks for sharing the vid!  They need to get Carisi and Amy together STAT!

The EPIC meltdowns from Rollisi fans are hilarious.

 

Carisi is a guy who likes exclusive relationships, as opposed to slangin it far and wide.

He'll be fully engaged, invested and actually date you.

Plus he's well rounded and knowledgeable, which means great conversations.

As opposed to hearing about his job 24/7

 

Which turned me off from men in Law Enforcement. 

[statsgirl]

And here I was thinking that Carisi is gay ...

On 1/22/2019 at 6:34 PM, lucindabelle said:

Outlier here. Found the episode confusing. Yes the DNA stuff was kind of interesting but....

the rapist just stopped being a rapist when he was married?

he became a rapist because he heard his dad raping his mom? 

He was mad because stone didn’t love him?

stone was mad because his father preferred the rapist?

um... anyone else think that is all ridiculous?

Stone was mad at his father because he thought his father didn't care about him since he'd promise to go to his games and then didn't show up.  He didn't know that it was because his father was trying to find the rapist because Daddy Stone didn't communicate. Meanwhile the rapist was seeking validation from Ben that he didn't get from his own father.

Other than that, yes, it takes a stretch of the imagination. The rapist had daddy issues and wanted Ben's attention but stopped as soon as he got married. I guess his wife's love cured him. He came out of hiding because the stan said that he was the Infinity Killer and the rapist wanted to reclaim his identity.

[Kel Varnsen]

On a side note, Peter actually comes over to play catch in a suit and tie?

Edited February 2, 2019 by Kel Varnsen

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:48 AM, Xeliou66 said:

How was the ID fruit of the poisonous tree? I’m pretty good with the legal stuff but I didn’t get how that was tainted.

I’ve missed their recurring characters as well, last season was a treasure trove of returning characters, this season we’ve barely had any. I miss Buchanan as well, he was awesome!! 

I’m not looking forward to Rollins being back full time, I haven’t missed her at all since she’s been sidelined, and I love the Fin/Carisi duo, and I hope we continue to get a lot of them when Rollins is back full time.

The police have to obtain their evidence lawfully (the 'Dirty Harry principle') otherwise it is worthless, in the case of the Golden State rapist it was ruled admissible but it could have easily have gone other way. 

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 4:13 AM, Gigi43 said:

 I give a crap in the sense that when I've seen pregnant actresses play losing babies on soaps, I think it's the most insensitive thing a producer can do to make an actress play out what must be a terrible fear of a pregnant woman all because they couldn't write a story ignoring the pregnancy. 

NYPD Blue?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:34 PM, lucindabelle said:

Outlier here. Found the episode confusing. Yes the DNA stuff was kind of interesting but....

the rapist just stopped being a rapist when he was married?

he became a rapist because he heard his dad raping his mom? 

He was mad because stone didn’t love him?

stone was mad because his father preferred the rapist?

um... anyone else think that is all ridiculous?

Absolutely, in the UK we had the shoe rapist who stopped raping women because he got married and when he had sex with his wife relived the experienced by having him wear a pair of his victim's shoes which he took as 'souvenirs'.   

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 7:50 PM, dttruman said:

I don't care one way or another about Stone, but they seem to want to make him a major character or something when he is appears in an episode. That's fine, but I wish they could write better story lines for him. I also like the friendship with Carisi, but I wish they would write that better. Stone needs to be more of a mentor to Carisi.

I thought they had enough evidence at the preliminary, to take it to trial because California and Florida allowed it. Did they make the judge here the "heavy", so it wouldn't be allowed thereby setting up that next confrontation in the interrogation room, which conveniently was w/o his lawyer?

No, it's perfectly plausible the judge would throw it out, all such decisions are essentially a judgement call. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:58 PM, hookedontv said:

I agree.

And while we are on this subject, I really liked the niece’s place in Brooklyn. I first noticed a cat photo hanging when Carisi and Fin were talking to her at the door, and after she let them in, there were other pet photos on the walls. I like to think her back story is that she is a pet photographer (big animal lover here.) 

I also thought she and Carisi had nice chemistry, I would like to see more of the two of them. 

I saw that too, it would be nice if he had a relationship of this kind. 

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 4:40 AM, spunky said:

All of a sudden he's willing to confess. The writers really expect us to stretch our imagination to the max sometimes.

But you disregard the hubris of rapists?

[Joe Hellandback]

Essentially I thought this was very good and didn't shout at the TV once whilst it was on, even the Benoah scenes were okay and I've nothing to add to scenes I'd like to see, a decent case although I remember the crockery story from an excellent book called 'What Cops Know' all the way back in 1992. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

On 2/2/2019 at 8:13 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

On a side note, Peter actually comes over to play catch in a suit and tie?

That scene was weird.