Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[Guest]

I actually think this experience could give Felicity a lot of growth by dealing with such a huge life change. Perhaps some of her abandonment issues can be addressed if Oliver is as attentive as I suspect he'll be. My fears, backed up by 3 seasons worth of evidence, is that TPTB won't give the character enough room to breathe and will rush through this story line. Well, it's not so much a fear as a given that that will happen. Or, that this will somehow, once again, become about Oliver. However, I think EBR will do great with whatever material she is given. 

 

I agree. As much as I dislike the idea of Felicity being paralyzed permanently - even temporarily - and am really concerned with how they're going to handle it and give it the justice it deserves, it has the potential to really flesh out Felicity's character. And I actually wouldn't mind seeing her struggle and fail sometimes. Felicity is someone who could probably handle anything that gets thrown her way, especially from an intellectual standpoint, but this isn't something that can be easily solved just by using her brain. So there's definitely a lot of potential there, even if I don't really like the storyline.

 

I am a little annoyed that we never got to see her reaction to the news that she'll never walk again (we got Oliver's reaction instead) but hopefully we'll see how she really feels in 411. I want to wait and see how this is handled before I really judge and whine about it. LOL.

[statsgirl]

I think that Felicity may have been in shock when she got the news and we'll get more of her reaction (I hope) in the next episode as reality sinks in.

[EmilyBettFan]

I really hope this is Diggle and Felicity's episode!

[SmallScreenDiva]

My bug bear with Felicity has always been her wardrobe. I know lots of women in STEM careers and no-one dresses like that. And it doesn't suit her personality.

 

Moved this here since we're talking solely about Felicity now ... would you mind elaborating on the "it doesn't suit her personality" part?

[way2interested]

Felicity always seems to me to be a very laid back, low maintenance kind of girl who would put comfort before how she looked. Not that she would look good but she wouldn't be uncomfortable just to look good.

She looks like a t-shirt dress and flats kind of girl to me.

I agree personality-wise Felicity seems like that, but the show itself had kind of established her not as that wardrobe-wise. If they wanted to establish her as a comfort over looks kind of woman, they would have had her make some sort of comment about what she was wearing because of the drastic change from s1-s2, or at least balance it out somehow with some scenes of Felicity wearing some comfort clothes, but they didn't. Instead, the show kind of more went in the direction that this is just who Felicity is, despite what we might think. In 115, Felicity got all glammed-up without any comment on how comfortable/different/beautiful she felt. She just wore it naturally, even though the situation did call for it. Same for 121.

 

Then, once she was an EA, she wore more dresses and heels again because her situation called for it, but still she never had any comments about it. In fact, she became known for wearing skirts (206), and a time when she wasn't wearing her normal wardrobe got called into question (214). Even further, Felicity is shown to appreciate nice dresses and outfits (307 when Ray bribed her with a dress, which bothered me originally because of the whole situation in the episode) and be able to dress nice almost at the drop of a hat (during her and Oliver's date, her abrupt double date in 104 with Barry in which she actually overdressed, and the second double date with Barry when she even had a completely different hairstyle for the night) without any comments about how comfortable she felt (even though EBR had a comment or two about that outfit in 104 on the Flash).

 

It kind of seems like to me that Felicity just has too many situations to dress the way that she does, but she hasn't had any moments that shows that she doesn't like the way she dresses (in fact, some kind of hint at the opposite), so I just accept that the way Felicity dresses is who she is and that she's comfortable in it (even if in reality she wouldn't be, since even EBR has commented on how she wears sneakers or boots 90% of the time if you don't see her feet on screen).

[tarotx]

Knowing Donna, she had Felicity in dresses and heels at a young age and until Felicity rebelled. Felicity seems like she likes to dress up since she has been impressed with some Glamour events and with Ray's dress. I supposed her skirts could be too short but this is TV and everything looks pretty normal to me. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by tarotx

[statsgirl]

From the first time we saw Felicity, she had perfect lipstick and a perfect manicure.  That takes effort  more than I ever managed to put in to my day-to-day office life.

 

Donna's little fashionista was lurking in there somewhere, and as Felicity grew more confident and got a bigger paycheque, it makes sense that she would branch out.

[Starfish35]

Yeah, once we met Donna, I just tended to headcanon that Felicity has more of her mother in her than she wants to admit.

[calliope1975]

From the first time we saw Felicity, she had perfect lipstick and a perfect manicure.  That takes effort  more than I ever managed to put in to my day-to-day office life.

 

Felicity's perfect, brightly colored lipstick was the first thing I noticed about the character, and it became the first thing I'd look for every time she appeared. 

[bijoux]

What did EBR have to say about Felicity's veeeery little black dress? I always thought of it in relation to Oliver choking on his own tongue had he seen her in it.

[way2interested]

What did EBR have to say about Felicity's veeeery little black dress? I always thought of it in relation to Oliver choking on his own tongue had he seen her in it.

IIRC, I think one of her friends said she looked hot in it, and she replied something along the lines of "I better, I didn't eat for 3 days" which just implied to me that it was a bit difficult to make sure she looked good in that dress and not something just casually thrown in there like the episode implied by Felicity accidentally overdressing.

But ha, I guess we'll always just have Eddie's reaction.

[statsgirl]

I certainly appreciate knowing that even EBR, with her fabulous figure, needed to starve for 3 days to fit into that dress.

It makes me feel like less of a failure for not having a TV body.

[kismet]

IDK, for me when I hear people say that on TV it pushes the ideal that it is ok for people to starve themselves to fit into outfits. I don't blame EBR, it's a writing thing. But for me when I heard it, IMO in some ways it promotes eating disorders. Fashion is important, but unhealthy behaviors to get there should not be promoted. It's a slippery slope when you start saying its okay to not eat for 3 days to look good in a dress. It's hidden messages like that which can be easily ingrained in impressionable minds.

 

I would have preferred them saving something along the lines of "it should, I work hard to look this good". Even that has hidden messages, but at least its not laying out a plan for bad behavior.

[bijoux]

As far as I understood, this is something EBR said to a friend, presumably on social media. Not something in any sort of script.

[Guest]

EBR looked incredible in that tiny black dress she wore on The Flash. She looks incredible in most of the things she wears. But it makes me feel sad for her that she felt like she had to starve for 3 days to fit into it. She has an amazing figure. So much pressure they put on celebs (and women in general). Ugh.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Guest

[Starfish35]

Well maybe if they'd given her a size that fits her, she wouldn't have had to starve herself. That's not a criticism of EBR, but of the wardrobe dept. Would it really be so hard to simply get the dress in her size? What a novel concept.

I thought the same of that colorblock dress they put her in at the beginning of season two. It would have been really cute if it didn't look like it was so tight she could barely breathe.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

That multicolored dress with the deep neckline was working for her. The open necklines work a lot better for her.

[Starfish35]

Yes I liked that one. Actually I liked all her outfits this episode.

[bijoux]

It was actually a top, but all her clothes were great this episode. The only weird bit is that she switched outfits between the mission at the beginning at the team coming back after dropping Thea off at Laurel's. I mean, we've seen her coming into the lair at night in her work clothes and head straight to work in previous episodes, but now she's in a wheelchair and the team sped over to Laurel's without bothering to change from their suits?

https://arrowfashionblog.com/2016/01/30/felicity-dotted-knit-peplum-top/

[Ceylon5]

I think we should rename this thread to "Felicity Smoak: Brilliant Force of Nature".  I thought that was such a great description of her when Curtis said it.

[wonderwall]

I think we should rename this thread to "Felicity Smoak: Brilliant Force of Nature".  I thought that was such a great description of her when Curtis said it.

I second this! :)

[kismet]

I second a renaming of this thread. And Curtis's description is beautiful and accurate. :) But we could have vote like we did for Diggle - if other people have other good thread headers.

[Morrigan2575]

If we're voting I prefer we keep Bitch with Wifi.

[theacostov]

I would prefer Bitch with Wifi. When you say that I instantly know who that is. And its linked to one of my fav ever Felicity scenes. Brilliant force of nature could be used to describe anyone imo. And knowing these unoriginal writers it probably will.

[Guest]

Yeah, I love Bitch with Wifi because I instantly know it's about Felicity. 

[doesntworkonwood]

So SmoaknArrow posted this over on tumblr about the whole Felicity in a mask issue which I thought was a good read. Now I am a fairly anti Felicity in a mask person but it is interesting to note that Felicity doesn't really get to do much stunts or go out in the field as much as she used to, which is a massive shame because my most memorable moments from the first two seasons were her stunts. It's really unfortunate that her talents within the team seem to have been relegated to just off site tech, especially with her in a wheelchair for the foreseeable future. We've seen that she has other talents, particularly going under cover but we haven't seen that lately at all. 

[Starfish35]

I think she made a lot of good points. I'm not for Felicity in a mask, but she's asking a lot of good questions.

[statsgirl]

That seems to be inevitable as they add new members to the team because they take over functions the smaller group was doing.  With Thea and Laurel now female members, there's no need for Felicity to be bait for the Dollmaker or accompany Oliver to the charity event with the Dodger.  The same thing happened to Diggle when he was sidelined to stay in the lair when Sara was out with Oliver in s2 or when Black Canary was on the rise in s3.

 

She does make a very good point though.  While Felicity doesn't need a mask and the EPs pay lip service that you can be a hero without a mask and costume, their actions show they only value those in leather.

[doesntworkonwood]

Yeah, I think the 'why is the line drawn at Felicity' and 'if Felicity is a hero why does she only get to do certain things' are both very good questions to ask, particularly the first one, purely from a production/what are the writers thinking point of view. 

 

I think that the nature of the missions has also changed which has affected my own enjoyment. Before, in seasons 1 and 2, the team sort of had to come up with a 'smart' plan to defeat the VOTW or to gain intel. OTA would each play a few roles, be that driver or bait or Oliver even just playing his 'Ollie Queen' facade. They'd infiltrate their opponent first and learn about them, before Oliver went in and kicked ass. Now, they just seem to send in the whole team (whether they're needed or not) have a few fights, leave and find out info via another source (sort of) and then send the whole team back in again. It's not really fun to watch anymore, or even interesting or clever. To bring this back to Felicity, it does just push her into the one role and doesn't really let her explore all of that fun stuff anymore. 

[Morrigan2575]

I only got about half way through because that is one epic long post.  However, I agree with what I read, she makes some good points.  The one that sticks with me is that the saving PT tech was given to Curtis and not Felicity.  Now, I'm not saying she has to do the hardware although we know she has a background in computer hardware.  But why not have Felicity work with Curtis? 

[thegirlsleuth]

Stephen Amell commented that he knew that Felicity was going to stay when they built her a set.  I thought it was very telling that the built Curtis a Palmer Technologies set and not Felicity one, and I was annoyed that she had nothing to do with the company-saving technology.

[statsgirl]

When did they build Felicity a set?  Her first episode was in a generic cubicle, then Walter's office, then what looked like a waiting room for the Royal Flush Gang episode, then back to the cubicle again.

[bijoux]

She definitely got an office that was different from the cubicle in 1x03 at some point. I'm not sure exactly when, but definitely by the mid season finale, because the your're remarkable exchange took place there. As did her cracking the security fob from the episode when Dig's ex commander tried to extort him to work with him, and tracing Dark Archer's arrow to Sagitarius. Also where The Huntress trussed her up.

[thegirlsleuth]

She went from the cubicle to the dim server-type room.

[looptab]

What's hilarious is  the "organic" limit. Because everyone else's getting to suit up happened organically. Oh, wait..*eyerolls*

Edited February 8, 2016 by looptab

[kismet]

I know FS maskless makes her special. And I do agree that people can be considered heroes without masks. ANd FS is a hero mask or no mask. But SmoaknArrow is asking some good questions. I think that lack of a mask or costume does make it easy for the promotional teams to skip over FS's role as a hero and not just a love interest. FS is a popular character, but a lot of her promotion is less about her and her skills now - than it was in s1&2.

 

I do wish that they could go back to some of the missions of s1&s2. The repetitive nature of masks hitting the ground every night doing the same thing is boring. It's why I think the stunts have really become less enthralling this season, because its the same stunt every night just a "new" warehouse or box truck. It's part of the reason I don't really want FS in a mask & yet I want her in a mask at the same time so she can be part of the "organic" action.

[bijoux]

I do understand the issues, but I am still very firmly in the I don't want her in a mask camp. I've been complaining about too many of them and not used properly in the field, so asking for Felicity to get one would be contradicting myself. So from my end, I want diversification of the missions and making Felicity just one more in the crowd isn't going to help that.

It's really why I was so disappointed with the 4x07 fundraiser. It had such a great opportunity to have the characters do some heroing without the masks on and absolutely nothing happened. The really short scene with Dig and Thea scoring drugs was one of the more refreshing ones this season. So that's what I would go for, characters using what makes them stand out. It doesn't always have to be good, like Thea's party girl history, but it's useful and it differentiates the characters. Having people like The Calculator targetting PT is what Felicity should be getting, not a mask.

[theacostov]

I don't want Felicity to have a mask. But if Mr Terrific does indeed get one when he's got the same type of skills etc as Felicity then I'm going to be pissed when MG brings out his ridiculous 'organic' reasoning. The real reason is because comics.

If she can walk again then it would be completely organic that she would want to learn how to protect herself so she could get out of dangerous situations. I'd almost say it seems inorganic if she doesn't. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Guest]

I still don't want Felicity to have a costume. I think she's unique in a show full of interchangeable masks and I like that she's a hero in her own right. 

 

But there are some interesting points raised. The show clearly values masks over everything else so Felicity automatically suffers there, both with a lack of promotion and respect as a hero. She's forever dismissed and not just because she wasn't in the comics. I find that so frustrating as a Felicity fan.

 

I don't think there's any way to solve that issue though, sadly.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Sorry, accidentally locked the thread for a minute there when I posted the poll.  Apparently, I lack Felicity's mad computer skills. 

 

Anyway, there is a poll for the potential topic name change up at the top of the thread, so feel free to make your voice heard.  I just ask that you don't argue with other posters about it.  :)

[dtissagirl]

I don't think there's any way to solve that issue though, sadly.

I think there is: less choreography close combat, more intricate action sequences.

My favorite action scenes this season were in 406, when everyone -- Sara and Curtis included -- came together to save Palmer. The fact that it was a multi-part plan made it FUN too. Stealing stuff, infiltrating secret facilities, fooling the villain, it was all there, and separating the characters into smaller groups with specific tasks to complete, made it flow a lot more effortlessly than the repetitive close combat fighting of almost every episode now. And if there's a sequential plan, that's when the combat fighting works best too, because it happens out of the necessity of the action.

And that kind of thing really does allow Felicity to be useful in missions.

When the masks go out solely to punch villains' minions that have no name nor personality: boredom.

When the masks go out to execute elaborate plans, are forced to interact with characters that need to be fooled/distracted/intercepted/etc, and amidst the exectution of said plan they happen to punch people: funtimes.

[bijoux]

The show clearly values masks over everything else so Felicity automatically suffers there, both with a lack of promotion and respect as a hero. She's forever dismissed and not just because she wasn't in the comics. I find that so frustrating as a Felicity fan.

 

Is it the show or the network? Because I honestly don't see much issues with how the show treats Felicity. She pulls off outstanding stuff and gets praised for her accomplishments, with there being a clear line in the sand drawn over what the others can't do without her. Her not being promoted that much is on the network as far as I know.

[EmeraldArcher]

 

My bug bear with Felicity has always been her wardrobe. I know lots of women in STEM careers and no-one dresses like that. And it doesn't suit her personality.

I know you've all moved on from Felicity's wardrobe, but I wanted to address this. I'm a woman in a STEMM field (computer science, in fact; extra M or Medicine), and we're just as diverse in our sartorial choices as women in other careers. Recently, my institution bought a full-page ad in Vanity Fair, and about 25 of us are pictured to promote Women in STEMM--and we all look fantastic. 

 

My favorite action scenes this season were in 406, when everyone -- Sara and Curtis included -- came together to save Palmer. The fact that it was a multi-part plan made it FUN too. Stealing stuff, infiltrating secret facilities, fooling the villain, it was all there, and separating the characters into smaller groups with specific tasks to complete, made it flow a lot more effortlessly than the repetitive close combat fighting of almost every episode now. And if there's a sequential plan, that's when the combat fighting works best too, because it happens out of the necessity of the action.

@ditissagirl, you've described everything that's wrong with the action sequences/missions this year. LoT is a lot of fun because it's getting the missions right for the most part, and they align with your description.

 

Bringing it back to Felicity, her reactions to things going askew during missions was so awesomely fun, like when there was a near-miss or she had to clamor to cover for Oliver. I kind of miss the days when Felicity wasn't the beautiful, understanding sage and she was more comfortable with her own discomfort ("This is my about-to-hack face" or her comment about offering herself up as bait for a serial killer). And even though it's human nature, I don't like her transition into someone who can be bitingly mean when she's under pressure; it makes her too much like Laurel, and it sometimes feels like she's less the beloved Bitch with WiFi and more just plain bitchy.

 

Edited to catch a typo.

Edited February 9, 2016 by EmeraldArcher

[Guest]

I think there is: less choreography close combat, more intricate action sequences.

My favorite action scenes this season were in 406, when everyone -- Sara and Curtis included -- came together to save Palmer. The fact that it was a multi-part plan made it FUN too. Stealing stuff, infiltrating secret facilities, fooling the villain, it was all there, and separating the characters into smaller groups with specific tasks to complete, made it flow a lot more effortlessly than the repetitive close combat fighting of almost every episode now. And if there's a sequential plan, that's when the combat fighting works best too, because it happens out of the necessity of the action.

And that kind of thing really does allow Felicity to be useful in missions.

When the masks go out solely to punch villains' minions that have no name nor personality: boredom.

When the masks go out to execute elaborate plans, are forced to interact with characters that need to be fooled/distracted/intercepted/etc, and amidst the exectution of said plan they happen to punch people: funtimes.

 

Good point. That is exactly the kind of stunts I'd like to see more of tbh. Kind of like the infiltration of Merlyn Global where everyone had a job to do and it was really fun to watch and there was no close combat stunts involved. Even Felicity was part of the action and she was still very much Felicity in that she was there to do her magic with the computers and she got to be a bit awkward and silly.

 

I'd really love to see that and maybe the show wouldn't be so boring with the same dull shots of the 4 of them walking into the field and then Thea gets a few kicks in and then there's a shot of Laurel punching and oh look. Single shot of Oliver maybe jumping down from somewhere and let's not forget to get a glimpse of Diggle shooting someone. So repetitive and boring.

 

But I just don't think the show wants to step away from that even though it's seriously bringing everything down.

 

 

Is it the show or the network? Because I honestly don't see much issues with how the show treats Felicity. She pulls off outstanding stuff and gets praised for her accomplishments, with there being a clear line in the sand drawn over what the others can't do without her. Her not being promoted that much is on the network as far as I know.

 

For the most part I think it's the network. I think there's an obvious bias against Felicity because she doesn't wear a mask and they put so much weight on masks = heroes and she automatically misses out there. Go on the CW Arrow twitter account and she's barely mentioned. Whoever does the PR really dislikes her, IMO. I mean, the last time they mentioned Felicity in a promo video the heading was something like 'Will Felicity's mistake cost Oliver his life.' WTF is that?! It's really bad. (Though I have to admit their PR is bad across the board actually.)

 

But then part of me does see some issues with how the show uses her. I've disliked how she's repeatedly been used to prop other characters at the detriment of her own. A lot of people have waited a long time to have a story that's dedicated to Felicity and Felicity alone and even that isn't really being handled properly.

 

I think they've done some good things with this wheelchair storyline but at the same time, nothing has really been given the chance to breathe. She got over her issues within one episode. Then in 412 she had a stumbling block but got over that in the same episode too. It's like they're afraid to draw it out a bit and really explore what it means to have her life completely changed. And meeting her dad is going to cover one episode too. It's like they're keeping it all contained to these mini arcs that don't really become much of anything beyond certain episodes. But I guess we'll see how it plays out. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Guest

[bijoux]

I agree with a lot of the iissues you mention, I just don't think this is a slight on Felicity on the part of the show. It's how the show is with its characters almost universally. Which is obviously a problem, just not one specific or exclusive to Felicity.

[Guest]

I agree with a lot of the iissues you mention, I just don't think this is a slight on Felicity on the part of the show. It's how the show is with its characters almost universally. Which is obviously a problem, just not one specific or exclusive to Felicity.

 

Yeah, I can totally see that, too. That's why I think it's a problem with the network, mostly. 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Ok, the poll is now closed.  I know it wasn't up that long, but given the overwhelming support for "Bitch With Wifi" to date, I don't think it's likely to get overturned.  :)

[theacostov]

Because honestly, as anything good happened to her this season? I don't count becoming CEO since technically that happened in the s3 finale/over the summer.

I wouldn't even count being a CEO being that good for her as a character. She was allowed to give a speech but Curtis created the battery. He found a way to make her walk. The only good things she's had are oliver (which is about to go to shit) and a better relationship with donna. Oh I forgot she got an ugly codename after they ripped off the journey of another comic book character because they were too lazy and uncreative to come up with something original.

This might have been better in the bitterness thread.

[way2interested]

I wouldn't even count being a CEO being that good for her as a character. She was allowed to give a speech but Curtis created the battery. He found a way to make her walk. The only good things she's had are oliver (which is about to go to shit) and a better relationship with donna. Oh I forgot she got an ugly codename after they ripped off the journey of another comic book character because they were too lazy and uncreative to come up with something original.

Eh, she got to go back to a lifestyle that made her feel fulfilled in 401. She held her own against a metahuman, while saving Curtis and forced two of her friends to reconcile in 403, she came to an emotional understanding of herself (along with her relationship with Oliver) in 406, she pseudo-proposed to Oliver after accepting their lifestyles and then got engaged to the man that she loves in 409, she countered her daddy issues in 413, and she did go through her journey after her injury and get a codename (it may not be original, but taken in the context of the show, these were good things for her, in terms of coming out stronger and getting something that she wanted).  

 

Or at least that's how I see it. It may still be a downer season, but I don't think that Felicity's life is as completely bad as s3 (although having a life-altering injury is something directly horrible to her, but she has been shown to overcome it and become stronger for it).

[theacostov]

Eh, she got to go back to a lifestyle that made her feel fulfilled in 401. She held her own against a metahuman, while saving Curtis and forced two of her friends to reconcile in 403, she came to an emotional understanding of herself (along with her relationship with Oliver) in 406, she pseudo-proposed to Oliver after accepting their lifestyles and then got engaged to the man that she loves in 409, she countered her daddy issues in 413, and she did go through her journey after her injury and get a codename (it may not be original, but taken in the context of the show, these were good things for her, in terms of coming out stronger and getting something that she wanted).

Or at least that's how I see it. It may still be a downer season, but I don't think that Felicity's life is as completely bad as s3 (although having a life-altering injury is something directly horrible to her, but she has been shown to overcome it and become stronger for it).

You're right, compared to season three, things have been a million times better and she has been allowed to be stronger and has had agency (unlike poor Thea after 4x13). And at least she's had a storyline unlike Laurel. So yeah things could be worse.

I am generally happy with Felicity this season but I do feel like the pacing on so many of her story's have been rushed that I am left a bit disappointed. I think i just wanted better. I guess my expectations were probably too high.