Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[NumberCruncher]

But more to the point, a character becomes irreplaceable not just for the actual stuff they do, but by who they are as a person and how they relate to the other characters.  Felicity is not only "the one who lights Oliver's way", but is at the heart of so much in the story, giving it humour and charm and colour that it sorely needs.  Without her, the whole story would have to fundamentally change.  She changed the show when they brought her in (for the better) and now that she's so deeply embedded at the heart of it she'd change it dramatically if she left (for the worse).

Not that I want to tempt fate but there'a tiny part of me that would like to see just what would happen to the show (and the audience) if EBR/Felicity left. We kind of saw a preview of it in S3 when they banished Felicity to Palmer Island. The team dynamics suffered and the show became a depressing slog. I like Curtis and although he does have the technical skills akin to Felicity's, I don't see the same level of charm in him that she brings to the show. I know that personally she's a big reason why I have kept watching through all the bad storylines and while I know that isn't the case for everyone, I do think there are a lot of people who do view Felicity as that metaphoric "voice of the audience" reacting to all of the craziness going on around her. She's relatable in ways that most of the rest of the characters are not.

I do find that Netflix article posted awhile back so interesting regarding the time it takes most viewers to really commit to streaming a particular show because it highlighted just how hard it was for viewers to connect to Arrow right out of the gate. General Netflix viewers (i.e. not comic book fans) weren't dazzled through the first 7 or 8 episodes. My assumption there is that the characters on an already dark show weren't all that rootable, relatable, and/or likable (including Oliver). They were lucky that they grabbed onto the Felicity character early when they had the chance because I do think what AK said in his recent podcast was true that the team really didn't seem like a team until Felicity became a part of it. She brought the fun and the likability that was sorely missing. If you take that away do the rest of the characters make up for her absence? It's an interesting thought.

[Orion]

I'm curious where everyone is getting that Curtis has the same skills as Felicity? 

 

I miss a lot of scenes because most episodes I'm only watching on YouTube, so maybe I missed something? So far Curtis has computer skills like cleaning up audio and creating inventions but he was unable to hack into Ray's last message and couldn't brute force the password. A password has never stopped Felicity even back in Season 1 when she broke into the phone for the assassin that was targeting Merlyn.

 

We haven't heard anything about him being able hack or design software/viruses have we?

 

Not that I put it pass the writers to give Curtis all of Felicity's skills because ... Gary Stu but I haven't seen it yet.

[wonderwall]

I thought it was pretty clear that Curtis is more of an engineer like Cisco and Felicity's skills are more related to hacking/cyber security/computer science...

 

...so they have different strengths

 

...so it's clear that Curtis can't replace Felicity and vice versa. 

[tarotx]

Curtis is more like Cisco. Plus they are both potential too perfect or wonderful to be real characters. Cisco works since everyone is a little that on the his show. It's not that way on Arrow. Flaws are strong character building attributes.

[Primal Slayer]

With how much they cross over abilities, they could easily have Curtis as a hacker.

Felicitys skills can be replaced, her relationships can not. Just as it is the same for everyone.

[Guest]

I don't think even Felicity's skills can be replaced tbh. As others have mentioned, Curtis is much more the inventor/engineer than he is a hacker. 

 

There's also the whole idea that Curtis will eventually become Mr Teriffic (at least I'm assuming) and he can't be that person while manning the computers and hacking for the team.

[dtissagirl]

They'll replace Oliver with Earth 2 Robert Queen before they replace Felicity, tbh.

[Guest]

I know there was some discussion from Felicity haters that they 'dumbed' Oliver down in s1 to give Felicity a reason to be there. Apparently Oliver could hack in the early episodes...I never got that impression? And if he could I certainly don't find that believable seeing as he never applied himself in school/college and hasn't been taught how to hack during his five years away. If anything it was more believable that he went and sought help from Felicity because she could do things no one else could. Isn't that why he kept going back to her?

 

So the very idea that they'd just shrug and replace her like it's no big deal is baffling to me.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

We havent seen enough of Curtis' skills to know what he can and can't do. If they needed him to do the ability would magically appear.

As far as Oliver, of course it hasn't been explored anymore since there is no need.

[NumberCruncher]

I know there was some discussion from Felicity haters that they 'dumbed' Oliver down in s1 to give Felicity a reason to be there. Apparently Oliver could hack in the early episodes...I never got that impression? And if he could I certainly don't find that believable seeing as he never applied himself in school/college and hasn't been taught how to hack during his five years away. If anything it was more believable that he went and sought help from Felicity because she could do things no one else could. Isn't that why he kept going back to her?

 

So the very idea that they'd just shrug and replace her like it's no big deal is baffling to me.

It's been discussed around the internet in various places that Oliver being a computer whiz in the Arrow pilot episode was something people found utterly ridiculous when it was first screened at SDCC given that A) he was a college dropout before the boat went down and B) he was stuck on a deserted island for 5 years and had no real concept of what current technology looked like upon his return. It's not a matter of them dumbing Oliver down in order to bring in Felicity but rather they gave him skills he really should never have had to begin with.

Edited December 17, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[kismet]

I know there was some discussion from Felicity haters that they 'dumbed' Oliver down in s1 to give Felicity a reason to be there. Apparently Oliver could hack in the early episodes...I never got that impression? And if he could I certainly don't find that believable seeing as he never applied himself in school/college and hasn't been taught how to hack during his five years away. If anything it was more believable that he went and sought help from Felicity because she could do things no one else could. Isn't that why he kept going back to her?

 

So the very idea that they'd just shrug and replace her like it's no big deal is baffling to me.

He did hack into the bank system and give people Adam Hunt's money in the pilot. But I remember one of the EPs said in the network notes, they didn't find it believable that OQ would have all those computer skills having just returned from being on an island for 5yrs. Of course that was before they found out that he wasn't always on the island. I do believe that OQ has some computer & hacking skills. He probably could run the basic computer stuff he needed to take down the list, but certainly not as efficiently as with a computer expert. I do not think his skills ever would have been as good as FS no matter what backstory they gave him for his time away. What FS does is not something that is easily picked up in 5yrs when OQ was learning other demanding physical skills. So I think it was a good Network note to bring in a computer expert. But I think the original plan per the EPs was to have OQ have a few different experts he used, that was until they discovered EBR. With EBR they could roll everything into one role and capitalize on the OTA dynamic, because it did make the show better.

 

I just want her to get her due recognition as a true hero just like everybody else on TA. Because without a visible mask, she can become underappreciated. Could Curtis or someone else step in and do her basic job functions? Probably, since he is a Gary Stu. But the relationships and the team dynamics would all be off. And most importantly her brain is what makes her asset to the team. How she approaches, analyses and processes information. That is what I want her appreciated for, not just her basic role on the team. She is more than just a hacker or the bankroller.

 

That being said, I think her being out of commission in 410 and perhaps a little beyond will solidify her importance on the team from everyone's perspective. Her absence will be felt and not just in OQ going feral. I imagine there will be a lot of references to her absence being why the team, can't do what they usually do. She might have helped TArrowless from a far before, but now they will realize that they need her in the lair and not just her doing consulting projects from a far. That it's her that makes the difference, not just what she is able to get for them from a few computer keys.

[Guest]

It's been discussed around the internet in various places that Oliver being a computer whiz in the Arrow pilot episode was something people found utterly ridiculous when it was first screened at SDCC given that A) he was a college dropout before the boat went down and B) he was stuck on a deserted island for 5 years and had no real concept of what current technology looked like upon his return. It's not a matter of them dumbing Oliver down in order to bring in Felicity but rather they gave him skills he really should never have had to begin with.

 

I agree. It was ridiculous, even more so now that we've seen more of his time away and not once has he been anywhere near a computer (apart from that one time in s3 he tried to send an email). So I find it much more appropriate and believable that they filtered that out and had Oliver seek help from a computer specialist.

 

But the dumbing down comment is something I've seen a few times from people wanting to downgrade Felicity's importance.  *Insert haters gonna hate gif here*

Edited December 17, 2015 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

Eh. I'm good with this being a retcon that dumbed Oliver down re: computers. Yeah, yeah, he had impossible skills in the pilot, and YAY SHOW BRINGING IN FELICITY!

BUT I like that they went further and minimized all this computer knowledge to "Felicity said even an idiot could run it". Because it amuses me immensely that "Felicity, you said there wasn't even email in Bali!" = everything Oliver knows about tech. It's THE GREATEST THING.

Edited December 17, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Guest]

Yeah, they have made it pretty clear that Felicity is heavily relied on. Even the team needed Felicity's help while O/F were away on their road trip.

[hogwash]

Bringing this over so I don't clutter the supporting cast thread.

 

 

In contrast to the RP/FS break up when RP literally realized that he was just a placeholder and was forced to bow out as gentlemanly as possible. RP/FS break up was all about OQ and accomplished almost no character growth for either character.

Ray's stupid love declaration was part of that too. Ray sucked and I don't believe for a second that he fell in love with Felicity 2 months into that garbage relationship after losing his fiancee but Felicity's non-reaction was bullshit. Another example of S03 trying to "up the stakes" without letting the characters actually react or communicate.

 

Her mom tells her that she's in love with Oliver not Ray (like that's a big revelation or something). She doesn't say anything. Ray takes it back. She doesn't say anything. Ray breaks up with her. She doesn't say anything. I almost forgot Felicity could talk about how she feels. I guess keeping us in ~suspense~ about Felicity's feelings was more important than Felicity's POV. Glad that's over. 406 was a gift.

[Guest]

Haha. Yeah. Felicity wasn't allowed to have a voice about her feelings until 320 because plot. And in the process of that, her character suffered as a result. *Still bitter*

[way2interested]

 I guess keeping us in ~suspense~ about Felicity's feelings was more important than Felicity's POV. Glad that's over. 406 was a gift.

 

The thing for me is, I wonder if we were supposed to be in suspense at all? Like, timing-wise, I was in suspense about when Felicity would actually tell Oliver, but other than that, nothing "shocked" me about anything in this badly-structured love triangle, except for Ray's quick admission of feelings towards Felicity in 311 and 318, because they simply did not make too much sense to me. I was bitter that she never got an outlet to tell her feelings to, but I was somewhat able to deal with it because of discussions I found online about Felicity's feelings, and I thought that EBR's performance made it clear enough ("enough" meaning that I could follow along with my reasoning, but I will still thrown by some things, like her believing that Oliver regretted kissing her in 309) for me.

 

Funnily enough, I thought that her feelings in 406 were pretty obvious without giving her POV too (IMO, because I did see people who were shocked with Felicity's identity crisis, thinking initially that she was either missing Ray a lot or that she was just being bitter because Oliver took her on their summer trip that she agreed to go on), but hearing her actually verbalize her feelings to both Oliver and her mother did make a huge difference in execution. It made it feel earned and real and like the writers really cared about giving Felicity a voice and a legitimate side in her actions.

 

I got the same thought with her feelings in 409. Felicity's feelings to me were obvious without hearing her POV (she wants to marry Oliver? Of course she does! She loves him, she's still with him, and 406 was a thing that happened), but hearing her tell Oliver about her feelings towards marriage again gave a new weight to the plot and showed that the writers cared enough about the story to give Felicity a voice on the topic.

 

Sorry for the long reply! Short version: Totally agree, IMO, her feelings weren't as hidden as people have legitimately criticized about, but I believe that giving Felicity a voice gives a needed weight to the plot. 

[kismet]

Ray's admission of I love you was a LITTLE TOO MUCH. Felicity's lack of POV or response was a LOT TOO LITTLE. And the fact that those two things did not equal an honest conversation that then lead to a break-up because of plot was absolutely absurd. Even having RP be there at the Roy's goodbye so he could see it was so contrived.

 

I can hear it in the writer's room - "We need Ray's suit for 319 & Ray's jet for 320, we have to keep them together. Let's have them talk, no that will lead to a break-up. OK, we'll just have RP back pedal talk about L vs l, the audience will so buy it. And if they don't we'll just have FS hang all over RP in the temporary lair, that'll give her POV. Dang it they need to say together we need RP's office for the temporary lair. Good point, plus it will parallel s1 & s2, we can't break our parallel structure, people might think we are not EPIC writers!!".

 

There are many issues I had with the R/F relationship, but the biggest one I had was with how they removed FS's POV from the entire relationship. And the most problematic example of that was the fact that she didn't initiate the break-up or any conversation about what happened in the hospital when clearly they seemed to be on different pages. I get that the whole NP was spur of the moment and its not like FS was planning on sleeping with OQ or admitting her love for him, but the writers knew it. Hence why they really needed to talk in 319 perhaps in the car driving home from saying goodbye to her friend. An emotional good-bye triggering some honest soul-searching.

Edited December 20, 2015 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

Moved pics to news/media

Edited December 22, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[EmeraldArcher]

Bringing in @wonderwall's comment in response to EBR's perspective that Felicity would have thought about marriage as a kid:

 

I also like how she states the differences between herself and Felicity. It's always nice to hear her perspective. I for one never really thought that Felicity would be one to think about marriage when she was a kid... But it fits considering how much this season and last season showed that Felicity is the kind of woman who wants/needs companionship.

 

Now that EBR has put it out there that she thinks Felicity would have thought about marriage, it kind of makes sense to me.  I don't think that Felicity necessarily fantasized about the romantic wedding as much as she did the commitment and stability of a loving marriage.  Given that her own dad left and Donna struggled in so many ways as a single mom, I can see young Felicity's determination to have a life partner she could rely on.  Although I appreciate Felicity's independence and rejection of "being that girl" who would lose herself in a romantic relationship, I think that we've seen her lose herself to some degree in the three romantic relationships we've witnessed (Cooper, Ray, and Oliver).

 

I suppose it could go either way in that young Felicity would react to her father's abandonment by asserting her own independence and equate being single with being in control.  However, I think Donna's difficult life influenced her more in that she might have equated being single with struggle and loneliness.

 

Six-seven months together before an engagement is pretty fast, despite the fact that she and Oliver have been friends for so long. And, she was ready to say yes after only 4-5 months to the original proposal. They still have so much to learn about each other in this newer, intimate relationship, but Felicity is already certain of her future with Oliver that they're now engaged (despite S3's awfulness!). So, I think I agree with EBR.

[Guest]

Based on her childhood, I think it could have gone two ways with Felicity and the subject of marriage. She either could have looked at her dad leaving her mom and decided she never wanted marriage because it always ends and people end up hurt. Or she looked at what her mom didn't have and decided she wanted the opposite. Both ways make total sense, IMO.

 

Felicity never struck me as the kind of woman who fantasizes about marriage but if she's in a committed serious relationship I would imagine she'd be happy with that next step.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Guest

[kismet]

Sometimes I feel like EBRs head canon for FS does not line up with the character or show canon. And sometimes definitely not with my interpretation of the canon.

But as for FS and marriage I tend to agree that she would go to either extreme. She was either gonna dive in head first which is what she's done with OQ. Or try to be extremely independent. However, considering her commitment & devotion to TA from the start without romantic notions, she was always headed towards being more of a deeply committed relationship person than an independent person minimizing attachments.

[statsgirl]

But as for FS and marriage I tend to agree that she would go to either extreme. She was either gonna dive in head first which is what she's done with OQ. Or try to be extremely independent. However, considering her commitment & devotion to TA from the start without romantic notions, she was always headed towards being more of a deeply committed relationship person than an independent person minimizing attachments.

You've sold me.

 

From her background, I agree she could have gone either way, either rejecting both her parents (abandoning father, mother always searching for love) and choosing to minimize her attachments to people, or leading with her heart.  Approaching Oliver in the first place to get Walter back, her commitment to TA, even her unhesitating acceptance and emotional support of Sara shows that she chose the route of making people connections important to her.  The problem with Oliver for her in season 3 is that he told her he loved her but he still pulled away. Felicity would have put herself All In concerning someone she cared about

 

Ironically, post-island Oliver did choose to minimize his attachments to people. He still cared about those he had cared about before but as Thea pointedly pointed out, even with them he didn't let anyone in. Diggle and later Felicity broke him out.  It's another reason why the Oliver/Felicity relationship works dramatically.

[BkWurm1]

In the interview, EBR said that she hadn't as a child imagined her wedding but that Felicity would have.  Wedding, not marriage.  I can absolutely see Felicity before her parents split imagining what her wedding would look like.  Donna would be right there with her, spinning the fairytale, delving deeper and deeper into the imagined moment.  But after her dad left, I think she would have put that game behind her and focused on the real and tangible.  But maybe it was something more in between.

 

Felicity might have fought against that naïve romantic girl that you know believed in the power of love and meeting the right one and it leading to happily every after.  Donna clearly still believes it and even when Felicity felt she had no romantic love in her life, she had so much faith in the people she loved.  So maybe instead of fighting against those dreams in the face of cruel reality, maybe Felicity just tucked that believer away somewhere safe and held onto a sliver of hope that one day when the RIGHT one came along (Daddy dearest being the example of the wrong one) she could throw her whole soul into the relationship. 

 

 

Connections are very important to Felicity - when she lets herself have them.  I think after Cooper they were too hard for her to allow at that time into her life.  It's likely that she had shied away from them before Cooper as well since we have no hint that Felicity has any friends that she held onto from her past.  Not that she didn't have friends, but none that mattered enough to keep connected to. 

 

Felicity considered herself a failure at love and thus thought she was a huge disappointment to her mom.  I'm not sure if that means that a young Felicity wore her heart on her sleeve and was shut down when she tried to offer it or if she hid it behind her intellect and her computers so that no one could reject it. I guess based on what she said about FINALLY having someone interested in her (only to be struck by lightning and fall into a coma) I'd have to think it was a bit of both.  Definitely post Cooper she hid behind her computers for a while but also it sounded like she genuinely was open to a relationship by the time Oliver stepped into her life - only for no one she liked to be interested in her.  (Which makes sense since the true awesomeness of who Felicity was is something she kept hidden after MIT. )

 

At the same time even though she thought she was a failure at love, she wasn't bitter or even cynical about it.  She encouraged both Oliver and Diggle to get out there and take a chance on opening themselves up to it.  She was shocked that Oliver could be interested in her, but given the chance, she jumped to go on that date with him when someone less brave might have reasoned accepting his dinner invitation was a bad idea.  She had months to tell herself that it was better that Oliver had just said what he said to fool Slade and yet, she didn't try to run from what she felt, not until Oliver seemed to prove that he had zero REAL interest in living and letting himself have the love he claimed to feel. Then there was Ray but if ever there was a failed distraction, that is Ray.

 

Felicity is so practical and accepting and strong that I have a hard time calling her a romantic but I think at her core, that is who she is and yet that is not all who she is. She believes in huge risks and huge rewards.  She dropped her life in Starling City and ran away with the man she loved.  And yet after she did and after she came back home, she panicked and rejected being that person.  So yeah, I can believe that Felicity Smoak dreamed of what her wedding would be like even as she didn't really believe that day would come, at least not for her.

 

I like that she doesn't neatly fit into a box.  I love that she can't help but believe and love and hope and I love that it's grounded in the faith she has in the connections she has now made. 

 

I hope that Felicity gets her dream wedding, whatever that most important piece might be. 

Edited December 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

One thing that I'm actually semi-proud with the writers is that they were able to make parts of a backstory for Felicity that actually matches up with her character in s1 and s2 and beyond pretty well. Who knows what ideas may have changed in development, but most of Felicity's thoughts and action line up with her character very well with her backstory, even if it was made retroactively.

 

Another note, I always love when actors are able to give insight onto their characters in thoughtful way because it makes me wonder if they think about them as much as I've seen over the internet. Heck, I always love hearing SA's, DR's, and EBR's insights into their characters because then I usually feel validated or educated in what's happening in the story. Plus, they sometimes have some form of their own head canon that I usually find very interesting.  

[EmilyBettFan]

She knows her character well. At least she expands on things instead of the character traits like the ponytail and glasses. She's actually talks about Felicity and not just her image.

[Chaser]

Going against the grain, I actually don't see Felicity as someone who grew up thinking about weddings or marriage. That doesn't really mesh for me. 

 

As for EBR viewpoint on this (and other thoughts she has on Felicity), I think she tries to mold Felicity to whatever is on screen. Most of the time I agree with it, but sometimes I'm a little iffy. I appreciate that she does that, it works a lot better for me than sticking to one head canon and carrying it thru seasons.

[BkWurm1]

Going against the grain, I actually don't see Felicity as someone who grew up thinking about weddings or marriage. That doesn't really mesh for me. 

 

 

I get where you are coming from, but would you find it believable that Donna would have wanted to dream about her daughter's wedding day even when her daughter was a very little girl? 

 

I remember fantasizing with my mother about this beautiful yellow,  floor length dress I was going to make,  going on and on night after night about all the details only to realize as I got older that one) I hate the color yellow (on me or walls) and two) I couldn't sew a dress to save my life but my mother in her youth did actually make her own clothing.  It wasn't my dream but even though I know now it all came from her, I still remember the absurd wonder I felt in talking about it. 

 

I can imagine at the very least something like that having happened with Felicity. 

Edited December 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I can see Donna wanting to live vicariously through the happy wedding that she wanted Felicity to have.  I know so many kids whose parents wanted them to have/be what they couldn't be themselves, whether it's happily married with kids or a politician or lawyer or writer.

 

I can see Donna planning with little Felicity what her life is going to be like when she's very young and maybe even after her father left.  And then, when she's trealized that her father really is gone and there is no happily ever after, Felicity decides that she can't pin her future on a man like her mother does, and she decides to work really hard, excel at her computers, and be self-sufficient.

[Guest]

Going against the grain, I actually don't see Felicity as someone who grew up thinking about weddings or marriage. That doesn't really mesh for me. 

 

As for EBR viewpoint on this (and other thoughts she has on Felicity), I think she tries to mold Felicity to whatever is on screen. Most of the time I agree with it, but sometimes I'm a little iffy. I appreciate that she does that, it works a lot better for me than sticking to one head canon and carrying it thru seasons.

 

I don't think she grew up thinking about marriage either. I don't see her as one of those women who sits there dreaming of her big special day! LOL. But I can appreciate that she'd want to take the next step in commitment with Oliver.

[Chaser]

She was a dramatically different character from everyone else around her. I never said that EBR didn't factor in, she can play that type well and if she was brought in and had to play a very dramatic Felicity, I don't think the outcome would've been the same. The amount of times Felicity was dramatic in S1-2 compared to others is not that much. In S3 when she was the most dramatic that she had been, there were a lot of reviews that didn't like it, EBR didn't like it, and I saw a lot that called for her to return closer to her quirky funny roots for S4. Now does that mean she can't have dramatic moments or anything besides being funny/quirky? no, does being funny/quirky not make her able to be a strong character? no. But the fact that she was different is what helped make her as popular as she is imo.

Personally I was speaking just in regards to Felicity herself, not in comparison to the other characters on the show. I feel like a lot of people thought Felicity was ONLY fun and quirky. There was more depth to her than that in S1 and S2. The biggest problem with S3 Felicity is they didn't balance her character out. They threw the kitchen sink at her but unlike moments of drama in the previous scenes, they didn't give her a voice or allow her to breathe.

 

Now in comparison to other characters: A lot of people like to say that Felicity was the only fun character in the beginning, but she wasn't the only one to bring levity. Diggle was hilarious in those opening episodes. Seriously. Those deadpanned one liners where my favorite.

 

And I don't think Felicity was as funny and quirky as people like to say. I think she was relatable and attractive, but mostly I think it was what she brought out in SA/Oliver that made her endearing to the audience. Later the interactions with her and Diggle, then the three of them.

 

Replicating Felicity is never to bring the same success because, like Delphi pointed out, it was a trifecta of factors.

[JJ928]

There's also the fact that MG once commented that Felicity Smoak is the type of character Berlanti, AJK, and MG are used to and, love to write for.

This is one of the reasons I think Felicity worked from the beginning.  Yes, she did have the occasional word vomit and babble but that's not all she was, even in season 1. I think the fact they they actually enjoy writing for her, really shines through. I know that once she became part of the team in season 1, is when the show actually hooked me (before that I was only watching because of David). I don't understand people who say she was only comic relief in the first season, yes, she did deliver those comedic beats but that's not all she did.

Honestly, I was sold on Felicity the moment she walked away from Oliver & Diggle because she wasn't going to knowingly orphan a child (which makes so much sense now). This is the same person that went undercover several times despite having no fight training, the same person who didn't leave the Arrow cave when Oliver told her to. She actually was willing to go herself and disarm the devices in season 1, except they had Lance do it. And lets not forget that she easily managed to live in that gray area- season 2 she said she forgot about the bodies stacking up. The one thing I always like about Felicity is that she never allowed her fears to best her & other than a few times, she always has a steady head and tries to make the right choices.

Edited December 30, 2015 by JJ928

[wonderwall]

I think what made people like Felicity in those opening episodes and what made people fall for her character are two completely separate things. 

What made people like Felicity in 103 and what made people want to see more:

• Her quirkiness
• She's fun
• She made Oliver smile and had great chemistry with him

 

After seeing more of who Felicity is, what made people fall for her (between 103-201):

• The first three points and...
• She stands up for herself and her beliefs
• She truly wanted to save Walter even though it put her life in danger. Meaning, she's GOOD. 
• She doesn't take Oliver's crap
• She's incredibly brave with the way she stays to help Oliver during the undertaking
• She has good chemistry with Diggle (and thus in episode 201 OTA was born)
• Felicity essentially helped make the show dynamic in tone instead of consistently dour
• The writers made her the audience's voice which helped people connect to not only the show more but the character

 

So to say that what made people only like/love Felicity for the first 3 things is disingenuous not only to the viewers but to the character itself who is so much more than those first 3 points. Let's face it, Felicity wouldn't have become the regular she is now with the 2nd highest screentime if she was JUST those first 3 points. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by wonderwall

[quarks]

Just to add to the Felicity Smoak Defense Squad:

 

Felicity had at least three dramatic, tearful moments in the first season:

 

1. When she failed to get Oliver to the bad guy in time to save the DA ("Salvation"), a failure that left her in tears.

 

2. When she thought Walter had been killed. ("The Undertaking.")

 

3. After the second earthquake device went off, killing hundreds of people and making things fall on her. ("Sacrifice.")

 

She also begged Oliver to take the info about the security trucks to the police, brought Oliver the notebook, and was visibly shaken and upset and, in her words, close to throwing up when she brought Oliver down to the Arrow Cave after his mother shot him.

 

Sure, people liked her initial appearance because she was hilarious ("These look like bullet holes"), and in the first couple of seasons she was the show's main comic relief (with Diggle, Thea, Sin, and Slade all having their moments) but I think there was more to her than that very early on.  Flash is doing something similar with Cisco - using him as the main comic relief, but also giving him serious stuff to counter that - and I think it's the combination that has helped make both Cisco and Felicity fan favorites.

[Primal Slayer]

And yet she still was the least dramatic character, lightest character that helped distinguish her. I never said anything negative about her being quirky and fun, all of that helped set her apart. 

[dtissagirl]

When Felicity was introduced in 103, Tommy already had delivered some good zingers, and Diggle had already done the deadpan thing. Neither had much angst when they were introduced.

The difference was that only Felicity was able to get to Oliver -- she made him smile, she made him light up in a way no other character [except for maybe Thea a little bit in the pilot, but that was hindered by the fake facade Oliver was projecting to her] had done in those first few episodes. And imo that what was what the writers immediately clinged to, and promptly added her to a bunch of subsequent episodes. And then EBR kept delivering, and the writers most likely realized this kind of rapport between O/F [and OTA] was something they didn't even know they were looking for.

And 4 months later, when the audience was finally introduced to Felicity -- after two episodes of terribad L/O chemistry, and very very few genuine moments from Oliver -- here comes Felicity making Oliver look soft for the first time. His playboy billionaire facade didn't work with her. And the emotional resonance she created with the writers all those months ago was embraced by the viewers. And it turned out to be greater than the writers even predicted.

Edited December 30, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Ceylon5]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't like or dislike a character based on what everyone else on a particular show is like.  I like them or dislike them on their own merits or demerits.  If Felicity had been on a show where every other character had been lighter and more fun than she is (or equally as light and fun as she is), I still would have liked her just the same way I do now.  It's not about the other characters or being distinct on this show or filling a niche.  I like her because she appeals to me personally.  I find her charming and funny and sincere and interesting and complex.  I want to know more about her.  It isn't about Oliver or anyone else (although part of her appeal is her great chemistry with other characters).  I like Felicity for herself.  If she left Arrow and went to The Flash, I'd follow her there.  If she got her own show, I'd follow her there.  She's really the only reason I've watched Arrow as long as I have because really nothing else on the show appeals to me very much.  And she definitely has a gift for making other characters, especially Oliver, much more relatable and bearable.  So she's great in and of herself, but also makes the people around her more enjoyable just by being there.  Which, on this show, makes her pretty indispensable. 

[kismet]

FS is not my favorite character. But if she left the show, the show would fundamentally change because she is integral to how the show works. It's just a fact at this point. The very few episodes that worked in s3 worked because she was part of TA, allowed to interact with OQ and integral to the plot of TA and OQ. The episodes that had her in pod mode or focusing more on the ATOM were less successful and painful to watch.

FS right now if the perfect trifecta of writing, acting & chemistry on ARROW. If she left the show, I would still watch because Im invested in OQ, but I don't see the show being as successful without her being in TA and at his side. If she moved to another show, it would depend on the writing. I have not enjoyed her appearances on Flash outside of the main crossovers, so it would be a wait & see how they write her. She is a great character with appeal & depth in the hands of the Arrow & some fanfic writers, but she can easily be made into a caricature in many writers hands. And that I could not stick around for.

[tv echo]

I totally agree with the wonderful Felicity defense posts written above.  I also wanted to add that she had some great dramatic moments in 1x15 (Dodger), which is the episode in which Felicity tells Oliver that he could do some real good in the city and he deviates from his father's list (for the first time?) to go after a jewel thief.  It is also the episode where Oliver sees her for the first time in a gold mini dress with her hair down, and where Felicity shows that she cares more for others than herself when she tells Oliver and Diggle to leave her when she's wearing the bomb collar.  Actually, this episode has a lot of great moments, which I'll post about in the "Dodger" episode thread.

 

ETA:  When the Dodger puts the bomb collar on Felicity, Felicity's response is to protect Oliver and Diggle: “I think I have a problem. Get away from me! If this thing blows –“  Her response is not to cry out to them to come closer and save her.

Edited December 31, 2015 by tv echo

[EmilyBettFan]

They tried giving funny moments to everyone at some point in time on Arrow. Maybe people just gravitated to Felicity more because EBR knocked it out of the park.

I know for me I don't like her based on how other people like her or how she stacks up against the other characters. She wins by a landslide if you were to compare her to the other females.

I totally agree with the wonderful Felicity defense posts written above. I also wanted to add that she had some great dramatic moments in 1x15 (Dodger), which is the episode in which Felicity tells Oliver that he could do some real good in the city and he deviates from his father's list (for the first time?) to go after a jewel thief. It is also the episode where Oliver sees her for the first time in a gold mini dress with her hair down, and where Felicity shows that she cares more for others than herself when she tells Oliver and Diggle to leave her when she's wearing the bomb collar. Actually, this episode has a lot of great moments, which I'll post about in the "Dodger" episode thread.

ETA: When the Dodger puts the bomb collar on Felicity, Felicity's response is to protect Oliver and Diggle: “I think I have a problem. Get away from me! If this thing blows –“ Her response is not to cry out to them to come closer and save her.

Exactly. Just like in 2x23 also with Slade and a huge sword to her throat. You hear her breathing but it's light. Then comes Laurel who huffs and puffs behind her. I always laugh at the ridiculousness.

[statsgirl]

Now in comparison to other characters: A lot of people like to say that Felicity was the only fun character in the beginning, but she wasn't the only one to bring levity. Diggle was hilarious in those opening episodes. Seriously. Those deadpanned one liners where my favorite.

 

And I don't think Felicity was as funny and quirky as people like to say. I think she was relatable and attractive, but mostly I think it was what she brought out in SA/Oliver that made her endearing to the audience. Later the interactions with her and Diggle, then the three of them.

I agree that one of the reasons Felicity was so attractive is that she's relatable.  She's not a superhero in a mask, she's someone who is trying to do good, and someone who doesn't have much self-esteem except in the area of how good she is with computers and even then when we meet her, all she thinks she can be is an IT girl until Oliver and Diggle show her differently.  She's less intimdating than Laurel to ask out on a date.  She's like us, and maybe if she finds her wings and gets her happy ending, we can too.

 

She also inspires Oliver.  That's another thing I'd like to do too, to inspires someone to make the world better.

 

Another important reason is EBR's acting choices.  In her scene with Oliver in 1x03 when she's not buying his coffee shop excuses, she not only looks sceptical, she cocks her head in a moment of pure "really, this is what you think I'm going to buy?".  When Oliver asks her out in 3x01 on a date-date, she nods her head not once but twice.  In the scene in 3x09 when Oliver pulls her up to the gazebo, she kinds of skips up.  When she's not being weighed down by tragedy, EBR's Felicity is bubbling and bright and sunshine, and that's more than just the writing of her as the quirky side kick.

Edited January 1, 2016 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

ITA.  One of the reasons that Felicity really stood out is also one of the reasons why Oliver & Felicity's relationship stood out. EBR adds little extras - not changing or supplementing dialogue, but just physical acting things - that really spark her character.  In the same way, SA and EBR add little touches and gestures and looks to their scenes that aren't scripted but that really enhance their interactions.

Edited January 2, 2016 by tv echo

[johntfs]

From what I understand, Steven Amell's reaction to Emily Bett Rickards' performance was similar to my own.  Kind of "Omigod, she's adorable!  Can we keep her?"

[Genki]

FS is not my favorite character. But if she left the show, the show would fundamentally change because she is integral to how the show works. It's just a fact at this point. The very few episodes that worked in s3 worked because she was part of TA, allowed to interact with OQ and integral to the plot of TA and OQ. The episodes that had her in pod mode or focusing more on the ATOM were less successful and painful to watch.

FS right now if the perfect trifecta of writing, acting & chemistry on ARROW. If she left the show, I would still watch because Im invested in OQ, but I don't see the show being as successful without her being in TA and at his side. If she moved to another show, it would depend on the writing. I have not enjoyed her appearances on Flash outside of the main crossovers, so it would be a wait & see how they write her. She is a great character with appeal & depth in the hands of the Arrow & some fanfic writers, but she can easily be made into a caricature in many writers hands. And that I could not stick around for.

I agree with everything you say except I would probably leave the show. Even though Oliver is my favourite Felicity is a very close second. When I heard they were gearing towards building her up as the love interest (around 2.10) I came back as a viewer and binged 1.4 - 2.10.

This is quite funny because my initial reaction to her first scene was a bit of an eye-roll and a ho-hum here's the "Chloe" for Arrow, and kind of quit the show. I think I didn't want to fall into another Smallville level of frustration.

I was a chlex shipper y'all.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Genki

[Guest]

I agree with everything you say except I would probably leave the show. Even though Oliver is my favourite Felicity is a very close second. When I heard they were gearing towards building her up as the love interest (around 2.10) I came back as a viewer and binged 1.4 - 2.10.

 

Same. If Felicity left, I'd quit watching too. Not just because Olicity was over (and they're a big part of my continued investment in Arrow) but also because she's basically the heart of things. I find her pretty irreplaceable. I think back to the show before Felicity joined the team and it barely held my interest. She was just the final magical ingredient somehow. With her gone, I'd be gone too. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by Guest

[johntfs]

One thing that I think is kind of interesting is how the show sort of downplays/ignores just how shady Felicity would come off to the outside world, especially prior to Ray Palmer's return in Season 4. 

 

Just out of college (where her boyfriend went to prison for hacking) she gets a job in the IT section of Queen Consolidated where she remains for two (presumably) uneventful years.

 

Oliver Queen returns and soon begins making regular visits to the IT department and Felicity in particular.  Meanwhile she begins visiting his nightclub.

 

A year later once Oliver takes over as CEO he immediately removes Felicity from the IT department and installs her as his executive secretary where she remains for the next year or so until his neglect and Rochev's machinations end up running the corporation into the ground.

 

After Oliver's failed attempt to reacquire the company, Felicity goes to work for Ray Palmer, the new owner, as a vice-president.  Later he transfers ownership of the corporation to her and then "dies" in a mysterious explosion.  After which she goes on an extended vacation with Oliver Queen.

 

It's unfair, but to me as far as the public is concerned, it looks like Felicity schemed and slept her way to the top and then murdered to stay there.

 

I missed those episode so I don't know:  Is Ray's "resurrection" public knowledge or still secret since he'll time-traveling and such on Legends of Tomorrow?

[bijoux]

No, Ray is still presumed to be dead. He wanted time to find himself or something. Let Felicity grapple with the failing company he's left her.

[Guest]

Yesterday I re-watched some of the Felicity (and Olicity) scenes from 410 and it broke my heart how she couldn't even say out loud what the doctors told her about never walking again. I actually thought that was a pretty good indication of how she's going to struggle with this. She can't even say it. *Clutches heart*

 

And even though this was happening she was still trying to be positive and upbeat and worrying about Oliver going off the rails. I think part of that worry was maybe taking her mind off her diagnosis but I love how much she cares about other people. I didn't need any of the characters telling me how strong Felicity is because it was pretty damn evident anyway. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by Guest

[calliope1975]

Yesterday I re-watched some of the Felicity (and Olicity) scenes from 410 and it broke my heart how she couldn't even say out loud what the doctors told her about never walking again. I actually thought that was a pretty good indication of how she's going to struggle with this. She can't even say it. *Clutches heart*

 

And even though this was happening she was still trying to be positive and upbeat and worrying about Oliver not going off the rails. I think part of that worry was maybe taking her mind off her diagnosis but I love how much she cares about other people. I didn't need any of the characters telling me how strong Felicity is because it was pretty damn evident anyway. 

 

I actually think this experience could give Felicity a lot of growth by dealing with such a huge life change. Perhaps some of her abandonment issues can be addressed if Oliver is as attentive as I suspect he'll be. My fears, backed up by 3 seasons worth of evidence, is that TPTB won't give the character enough room to breathe and will rush through this story line. Well, it's not so much a fear as a given that that will happen. Or, that this will somehow, once again, become about Oliver. However, I think EBR will do great with whatever material she is given. 

[statsgirl]

I don't want to get my hopes up but Wendy Mericle has shown she's got a good sense of what works for characters and how to do it subtlety, or at least as much as a TV show.  She's made Felicity the perfect woman for Oliver, the one who couldn't give up working for the Team even after she left with him, the one who knows that he's going to react to her being hurt by punching bad guys. 

 

It may have been evident to us that she's strong but to the casual viewer?  Not necessarily, she's not muscle.

It's unfair, but to me as far as the public is concerned, it looks like Felicity schemed and slept her way to the top and then murdered to stay there.

I don't know about the public, they're usually willing to believe in fairy tales and instant Idols but I've been around the corporate world enough to know that's probably the office gossip. Or if they do know her well enough in the office, it's the gossip that's going to be around the CEO meetings.