Law & Order Discussion Topic (2019 - 2021)

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, wknt3 said:

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but one of the things that I liked about the series was that it's characters could be clearly in the wrong sometimes while remaining good people overall, I prefer that to approach other procedurals take where the stars are right even when they are wrong, or the opposite approach that so many "serious" police dramas take where the protagonists are either anti-heroes or their flaws are focused on too much while their good qualities are ignored.

I agree with you about this, I liked how L&O’s characters weren’t flawless but were still likable. I just didn’t care for Mad Dog because I found McCoy extremely overzealous and I just didn’t find it all that interesting. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

"Double-Blind" is one of my favorites from season 7. And I really like "Ritual", especially the scene with Adam and Jack, where Jack is reading his closing argument, then throws his legal pad down, saying he doesn't even believe the trash/dreck he's written. That shows his humanity conflicting with the job he has to do.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

"Double-Blind" is one of my favorites from season 7. And I really like "Ritual", especially the scene with Adam and Jack, where Jack is reading his closing argument, then throws his legal pad down, saying he doesn't even believe the trash/dreck he's written. That shows his humanity conflicting with the job he has to do.

Ritual is from season 8 but I like that episode as well, It’s one of the few times I was almost siding with the defense, I completely understood why the killer did what he did and I’m not sure he had other options. I also liked when McCoy told Schiff the case was a piece of crap. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Ritual is from season 8 but I like that episode as well, It’s one of the few times I was almost siding with the defense, I completely understood why the killer did what he did and I’m not sure he had other options. I also liked when McCoy told Schiff the case was a piece of crap. 

Right. I meant to add “from season 8”, but I was also working and forgot!😄

[Xeliou66]

Interesting and somewhat controversial question to everyone here - what are your least favorite L&O episodes? I know we are all big fans of the show and the show was so consistently high quality and good, I was wondering what are everyone’s least favorite episodes? I’ll start by giving my least favorites -

Aftershock (season 6) - by far the worst episode in L&O history and very different from any other L&O, there was no case, just a bunch of soapy dreck. Fortunately they never tried anything like this again.

Dignity (season 20) - this felt more like political propaganda than anything else, and had the characters behaving OOC and had some parts that were downright offensive, such as Bernard’s comments about rape victims giving birth. Really poorly done.

Monster (season 8) - All of the main characters looked bad in this one and their lousy work nearly sent an innocent guy to prison, it seemed everyone was distracted by other issues, all of the personal subplots of season 8 seem to distract the characters and no one came out looking good and I didn’t like all of the personal subplots in season 8 anyway.

Mad Dog (season 7) - Another episode that deviated from the usual formula, and as I said earlier McCoy’s actions in this one were disturbing and he came across as a zealot with a vendetta until Schiff wisely stepped in.

Talking Points (season 17) - Another very political, very poorly done episode with cardboard characters spouting inflammatory dialogue with no real point to it. Season 17 was the weakest season and this was the worst episode of that season.

Just a Girl In The World (season 20) - Lupo getting involved with the woman who turned out to be the murderer was so ridiculous and so OOC for him, what a stupid plot, at least it was never mentioned again. It’s funny that I have 2 season 20 episodes on this list because other than the 2 episodes I think season 20 is terrific.

 

So those are the episodes that I flat out dislike - there are obviously others which I think are subpar but for the most part the show was really stellar, these are the only episodes I can think of which I strongly dislike and usually don’t watch when they are on. What about everyone else? 

[DXD526]

I kept watching during the show's original run, because it was such a habit at that point, but I never was able to warm up to either Lupo or Bernard, and don't watch their episodes on rerun. "Dignity" was horrible, and made me really hate Bernard, but I never liked Lupo, either.

Season 10's "Killerz" is a deeply unpleasant episode and one I don't care to revisit when it's on. Season 7's "We Like Mike" also isn't much fun. A poor schlub is a nice guy and helps out a stranger, and almost ends up doing hard time for it. Not a fun watch.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, DXD526 said:

I kept watching during the show's original run, because it was such a habit at that point, but I never was able to warm up to either Lupo or Bernard, and don't watch their episodes on rerun. "Dignity" was horrible, and made me really hate Bernard, but I never liked Lupo, either.

Season 10's "Killerz" is a deeply unpleasant episode and one I don't care to revisit when it's on. Season 7's "We Like Mike" also isn't much fun. A poor schlub is a nice guy and helps out a stranger, and almost ends up doing hard time for it. Not a fun watch.

It’s interesting how everyone has different opinions on the characters - I like both Lupo and Bernard and thought the last couple of seasons were really good, but yes Dignity was horrid, and Bernard’s comments in that episode were despicable and OOC. Lupo getting involved with the woman who turned out to be the killer in Just a Girl In The World was also highly OOC, and that’s why I skip those 2 season 20 episodes usually.

It’s interesting you mentioned Killerz - I almost mentioned something about episodes that have infuriating endings but that I still thought were good episodes - Killerz is a great example of an episode like that - I like the episode but the ending infuriates me. Other examples of this type of episode are Manhood and Patient Zero.

I think We Like Mike is a great episode. 

[wknt3]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

So those are the episodes that I flat out dislike - there are obviously others which I think are subpar but for the most part the show was really stellar, these are the only episodes I can think of which I strongly dislike and usually don’t watch when they are on. What about everyone else? 

 
Any episode involving abortion. I will defend some of the other common "least favorite" or "worst" choices, but there is nothing to redeem those episodes. Either NBC or Dick Wolf was so afraid to be seen as taking a stand that they twisted themselves into knots to make sure that they had an equal number of characters on both "sides" even if it meant writing some of them horribly OOC in order to do so. And worse was that they seemed to believe that this was nuance and not cowardice.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

 
Any episode involving abortion. I will defend some of the other common "least favorite" or "worst" choices, but there is nothing to redeem those episodes. Either NBC or Dick Wolf was so afraid to be seen as taking a stand that they twisted themselves into knots to make sure that they had an equal number of characters on both "sides" even if it meant writing some of them horribly OOC in order to do so. And worse was that they seemed to believe that this was nuance and not cowardice.

Fair enough. I think there were only 2 other episodes about abortion besides the horrid Dignity - Life Choice in season 1 and Progeny in season 5 - I thought both of those episodes were okay and I didn’t find anyone OOC in those episodes, in Progeny the abortion issue wasn’t even discussed much and in Life Choice I thought it was handled fairly realistically and all, I found Greevey to be an ass but he wasn’t OOC. So I’m fine with Life Choice and Progeny but everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.

What other episodes do you strongly dislike? 

[WendyCR72]

I'm sure there are others I'm not crazy about, but I really did not like "Invaders" from S16. No, I wasn't a huge Alexandra Borgia fan, but the show could have just had Branch/McCoy mention her death/murder.

I think seeing the dead body in that trunk and detailing how she choked on her own vomit just seemed sort of exploitative.

Annie Parisse did seem to come and go in a hurry. The writers almost sometimes seemed to have it in for her. Alexandra could be extremely rigid and pious, but still. (Although I don't recall any specific BTS issues where AP was concerned.)

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'm sure there are others I'm not crazy about, but I really did not like "Invaders" from S16. No, I wasn't a huge Alexandra Borgia fan, but the show could have just had Branch/McCoy mention her death/murder.

I think seeing the dead body in that trunk and detailing how she choked on her own vomit just seemed sort of exploitative.

Annie Parisse did seem to come and go in a hurry. The writers almost sometimes seemed to have it in for her. Alexandra could be extremely rigid and pious, but still. (Although I don't recall any specific BTS issues where AP was concerned.)

Interesting - I didn’t find it exploitative, it was somewhat shocking to have a main character killed off that way but it would’ve been weirder to gloss over the details of her murder, the show didn’t shy away from detailing how murders were committed and it would’ve been strange for them not to show her body/the crime scene.

I like Invaders - it was an interesting case and I liked the interactions between the characters.

Now that you mentioned season 16, I’ll mention another episode I don’t like, though not as much as the ones I mentioned above - Hindsight, where Falco found the woman dead in his bathroom, I never liked Falco at all and he was just annoying and stupid in this episode, and the ending was really ridiculous where they staged a fake hostage situation, complete with a SWAT team!! 

[shapeshifter]

31 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I really did not like "Invaders" from S16. No, I wasn't a huge Alexandra Borgia fan, but the show could have just had Branch/McCoy mention her death/murder. I think seeing the dead body in that trunk and detailing how she choked on her own vomit just seemed sort of exploitative....

13 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Interesting - I didn’t find it exploitative, it was somewhat shocking to have a main character killed off that way but it would’ve been weirder to gloss over the details of her murder, the show didn’t shy away from detailing how murders were committed and it would’ve been strange for them not to show her body/the crime scene.

I think it was borderline gratuitous--like they went right up to the line and leaned over it, but didn't actually cross it.
Regardless, too close to gratuitous for me.
Wikipedia says Annie Parisee wanted out (wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_%26_Order_(season_16)#Cast_and_crew_changes)

Quote

... Annie Parisse – who portrayed ADA Borgia – quit the series, wanting out of her contract. A show insider said to Fox News, "She saw the writing on the wall, they never treated her very well. They were always complaining about her hair. And they also thought she looked too young next to Sam Waterson (sic)."[1] ...

but the linked article (foxnews.com/story/law-order-in-trouble-as-actress-quits) doesn't really say that, IMO, and, more enlighteningly explains:

Quote

"They're either getting cancelled or getting a one-year renewal," a source said.

One of the many reasons is lower ratings, thanks to being up against ABC's powerhouse "Lost" on Wednesdays in the 9 p.m. timeslot. In recent weeks, NBC finally moved "Law & Order" out of harm's way, to 10 p.m., but it may too little, too late.

So maybe she wanted off of what she perceived to be a sinking ship?
And while I would personally have preferred they just had her character move far away, I can see how that might cause fans to beg for her return, which would be a distraction if she really didn't want to do so ever again.
But they didn't have to go into so much detail except I guess it gave motive for McCoy to go a little off the rails.

[michelec]

"Aftershock" and "Mad Dog" are among my least favorite episodes as well.

Another one is "Damaged," where Lauren Ambrose plays a intellectually disabled girl who is gang raped. The jury convicts the teen perps, but the judge sets aside the sentence and lets the boys walk. Then for the cherry on top Lennie finds out his daughter has been murdered. That episode is not good for my blood pressure at all.

"Helpless" is another one I can’t sit through. Very disturbing to see Dr. Olivet violated the way she was.

[Xeliou66]

28 minutes ago, michelec said:

"Aftershock" and "Mad Dog" are among my least favorite episodes as well.

Another one is "Damaged," where Lauren Ambrose plays a intellectually disabled girl who is gang raped. The jury convicts the teen perps, but the judge sets aside the sentence and lets the boys walk. Then for the cherry on top Lennie finds out his daughter has been murdered. That episode is not good for my blood pressure at all.

"Helpless" is another one I can’t sit through. Very disturbing to see Dr. Olivet violated the way she was.

I’m not a big fan of Damaged either and Judge Wright was a sack of shit for throwing out that verdict, just because he was a biased, misogynistic prick. And I didn’t like the whole subplot about Lennie’s daughter, though we did get to see a much more vulnerable side of Lennie and I did like how they had subtle references to it in later seasons when Lennie would interview parents of murder victims and would understand their pain.

Helpless was disturbing and hard to watch I agree, not a bad episode, but hard to watch.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, michelec said:

"Helpless" is another one I can’t sit through. Very disturbing to see Dr. Olivet violated the way she was.

Not going to ever watch again.

[Spartan Girl]

I hate “Undercovered” where the guy bludgeones an insurance agent to death because he wouldn’t approve an experimental treatment for his daughter and basically gets away with it. Come to think of it, I think I hate every episode where the perp(s) get away with it.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I hate “Undercovered” where the guy bludgeones an insurance agent to death because he wouldn’t approve an experimental treatment for his daughter and basically gets away with it. Come to think of it, I think I hate every episode where the perp(s) get away with it.

Good call on Undercovered as an episode with an infuriating ending, and I was really fed up with Nora in that one, acting so sympathetic to the defense, she was so soft and weak she was unbelievable as DA much of the time.

[Door County Cherry]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Annie Parisse did seem to come and go in a hurry. The writers almost sometimes seemed to have it in for her. Alexandra could be extremely rigid and pious, but still. (Although I don't recall any specific BTS issues where AP was concerned.)

So take this with a huge grain of salt because I don't remember if this is gossip or just speculation but someone up high didn't like Borgia because they didn't think she was attractive enough of some such ish.    One of those weird situations where they wanted something different than who Borgia was. 

I've always been a fan of Parisse and liked Borgia because she was different than the others.  

I hate how they killed her off. 

But Aftershock is probably the only episode where I purposefully will not watch. 

WE TV changed its schedule.  Argh!  I missed so many season 2 episodes.  I also miss that it won't be on Mondays.  I work from home on Mondays and Tuesdays and I love having that on in the background if I don't have a meeting.  

[Chyromaniac]

 

12 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

WE TV changed its schedule.  Argh!  I missed so many season 2 episodes.  I also miss that it won't be on Mondays.  I work from home on Mondays and Tuesdays and I love having that on in the background if I don't have a meeting.  

Yeah, the new show rotations suck.  Of course, nothing lasts forever, but I really liked having L&O as my Sunday afternoon background noise.  Saturday is okay- but I’m usually out, instead of doing stuff at home.  And the new WE promo that’s trying to get L&O fans to watch NCIS is pretty lame.  Sorry- maybe I’m the weirdo, but I’ve never liked NCIS, or really any of those other procedurals.  For me, there’s just something about original L&O that I don’t get from practically any other cop show.  CI will do in a pinch, especially if it’s not a Goren heavy script- but NCIS?  No thanks...

[michelec]

It's good to see I'm not the only one who isn't thrilled with WE's shuffle. L&O was my Sunday go-to. I guess there's the SVU and Criminal Minds marathons to fall back on, but even then it depends on which seasons are airing because the later seasons for both are meh.

[wknt3]

19 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Annie Parisse did seem to come and go in a hurry. The writers almost sometimes seemed to have it in for her. Alexandra could be extremely rigid and pious, but still. (Although I don't recall any specific BTS issues where AP was concerned.)

I think the biggest reason for her departure was that they were so worried about trying not to repeat themselves that the character had no personality and never really clicked so nobody had any real reason to want her to stick around (except maybe AP's agent) since it had to be boring to write, play and direct such a non-entity. I am sure that there were NBC executive weasels looking to try to make cast changes. There always were. In this case it was the right move since Rubirosa really did reinvigorate the legal side of the show (in part because they went back to what had worked with elements of Ross and Carmichael) and there was really nothing they could do with Boriga without completely rebooting the character and trying to come up with a reason she had a whole new personality.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

So take this with a huge grain of salt because I don't remember if this is gossip or just speculation but someone up high didn't like Borgia because they didn't think she was attractive enough of some such ish.    One of those weird situations where they wanted something different than who Borgia was. 

I've always been a fan of Parisse and liked Borgia because she was different than the others.  

I hate how they killed her off. 

But Aftershock is probably the only episode where I purposefully will not watch. 

WE TV changed its schedule.  Argh!  I missed so many season 2 episodes.  I also miss that it won't be on Mondays.  I work from home on Mondays and Tuesdays and I love having that on in the background if I don't have a meeting.  

It's still on Mondays; it now shares it with CI now, though, because WE is giving Criminal Minds and/or NCIS basically almost every other freaking day. (Criminal Intent airs from 10 to 4 Eastern Time; the Mothership starts at 4 ET. Just FYI!) ETA: The Mothership is still on Tuesdays as well, also starting at 4, as Criminal Minds airs until then.

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

The Mothership is still on Tuesdays as well, also starting at 4, as Criminal Minds airs until then.

Yeah.  But that's the end of the day.  Blah. 

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

Yeah.  But that's the end of the day.  Blah. 

If you're a subscriber, you can always stream it on Peacock. (Trouble is, there are limited seasons there, unlike CI and SVU that have all seasons.)

[Door County Cherry]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

If you're a subscriber, you can always stream it on Peacock. (Trouble is, there are limited seasons there, unlike CI and SVU that have all seasons.)

Oh yeah.  Here's the weird thing with me, I like my shows parceled out on TV for some reason--with commercial breaks--when I'm rewatching them.

 

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Door County Cherry said:

Oh yeah.  Here's the weird thing with me, I like my shows parceled out on TV for some reason--with commercial breaks--when I'm rewatching them.

 

No, I get it! Talking about this very thing in the CI thread, where I said the same thing.

[Notwisconsin]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:58 PM, wknt3 said:

I wonder if we're going to see any of the mothership defense attorneys as regulars?

‘Law & Order: For The Defense’ Spinoff From Dick Wolf & Carol Mendelsohn Gets NBC Series Order

Law & Order Criminal Attorney Drama For the Defense Gets Series Order

 

This has been cancelled.

[Xeliou66]

Prince of Darkness was just on - this is one of my all time favorite L&O episodes and I think it has the most chilling ending - “she doesn’t have an uncle” chilling final line and the look of horror on Schiff’s face was quite memorable. This was a gripping episode from start to finish, with a lot of memorable moments and great twists, like I say, it’s one of my all time favorite episodes. The scene where Cerreta was shot was quite intense and I liked the interactions between the various characters, and each character had good moments. I think this is an all time great episode.

Next up was Lennie’s first episode, Point of View, decent episode, Lennie was just a bit different in this episode than he was in the rest of the episodes, he was more irritable and surly. I did like the scene between Logan and Cragen where Logan asked about Cerreta coming back and Cragen said that it always took Logan time to warm up to new people and then said “I want to know how long my mother in law is going to live with us, I don’t know but I’m learning to enjoy her pot roast”. I also liked that Cerreta made an appearance and we got to see him tell Logan he was taking a desk job, it was nice that Cerreta got a final scene. Good case as well, with the woman who claimed self defense but it turned out she killed the victim on the mobster’s orders. 

[Notwisconsin]

I had those on my DVR queue. I had never seen them before for some reason, so I was waitng for Ceratta to get shot. It seemed really random for some reason. I know Sorvino wanted out, but the lack of forshadowing made the scene even more shocking. The introduction of Lenny made him look somewhat unlikable the entire episode. Strange, considering that he became the heart of show.

I have been searching for the transitions. That's why the show lasted as long as it did.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

I had those on my DVR queue. I had never seen them before for some reason, so I was waitng for Ceratta to get shot. It seemed really random for some reason. I know Sorvino wanted out, but the lack of forshadowing made the scene even more shocking. The introduction of Lenny made him look somewhat unlikable the entire episode. Strange, considering that he became the heart of show.

I have been searching for the transitions. That's why the show lasted as long as it did.

Yes I agree with your points, the scene where Cerreta was shot was shocking, and Prince of Darkness had a lot of great twists and that ending was unforgettable.

Lennie was a bit different in his first appearance, he was more irritable and surly, he wasn’t like that in all future episodes. I don’t know if they wanted tension between him and Logan, or if they just hadn’t gotten a good grasp on the character yet, but he was a bit different. 

[Notwisconsin]

The big transition between seasons 3 and 4 seem to have taken place offstage over the summer, which is strange, as the first two lead detectives got big sendoffs.

[Xeliou66]

25 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

The big transition between seasons 3 and 4 seem to have taken place offstage over the summer, which is strange, as the first two lead detectives got big sendoffs.

Yeah it was weird how we didn’t find out what happened to Cragen and Robinette, the show should’ve offered an explanation. Of course we found out later - Cragen next appeared in the season 5 episode Bad Faith where he was the head of an anti corruption task force, and Robinette next appeared in Custody in season 6 where he was a defense lawyer. But yeah it was rather poor that they didn’t offer an explanation at the start of season 4 IMO.

[ML89]

I love Point of View, even if Lennie is more who he played in Prince of the City than he became (love the lunch and "if he thinks I'm a dirty cop" "your black cat reputation"). The makeup bit is hilarious because I will hear "Jacques D'Sange makeup" in my head forever. I know if it had been the Fontana years, he probably would have id'd it immediately! 😁

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, ML89 said:

I love Point of View, even if Lennie is more who he played in Prince of the City than he became (love the lunch and "if he thinks I'm a dirty cop" "your black cat reputation"). The makeup bit is hilarious because I will hear "Jacques D'Sange makeup" in my head forever. I know if it had been the Fontana years, he probably would have id'd it immediately! 😁

I like Point of View as well, it’s a very interesting case, I liked the makeup bit and how they identified their suspect as well, and it was interesting that the crime turned out to be a mob hit. Lennie was just a bit different in this episode than he was in all others, probably because they hadn’t really gotten a grip on him yet.

[Katy M]

On 8/15/2021 at 8:00 AM, Spartan Girl said:

 Come to think of it, I think I hate every episode where the perp(s) get away with it.

It doesn't make me hate the whole episode, but I do hate the fact that they get away with it.  If that makes sense.  Just saw Fixed where the vigilante killer gets away with it.  No, it's not OK, but unfortunately it makes sense that it happens. 

[Xeliou66]

38 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It doesn't make me hate the whole episode, but I do hate the fact that they get away with it.  If that makes sense.  Just saw Fixed where the vigilante killer gets away with it.  No, it's not OK, but unfortunately it makes sense that it happens. 

Yes I agree with you - it’s very frustrating when a perp gets away with it, but I’m glad L&O had episodes like that, it made the show more realistic, in real life sometimes perps do get away and cases do have unsatisfactory conclusions. So it made the show more interesting. 

[stonehaven]

I still love that last scene in Stone's office with that sleazy doctor who raped Olivet in "Helpless". The case was pretty much a "blame the victim" pathology for the defense with Melnick having no soul for her line of questioning but her shock and disgust after Robinette says "54 women you either, raped, molested or abused" is a highlight. I won't watch the rest of the episode as it's shocking, sad and infuriating but something about that scene makes me cheer....and wonder how rare that is and how far we still have to go.

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I agree with you - it’s very frustrating when a perp gets away with it, but I’m glad L&O had episodes like that, it made the show more realistic, in real life sometimes perps do get away and cases do have unsatisfactory conclusions. So it made the show more interesting. 

Having perps get away with stuff validates the experiences of viewers who have experienced that frustration as victims of crimes whose perpetrators were known but never convicted (or, IRL, not even prosecuted). 
I would be one of those viewers, but I haven't watched an episode like that in a while. 
Next time I do, I'll try to remember to note my feelings about it.

Edited August 22, 2021 by shapeshifter

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I agree with you - it’s very frustrating when a perp gets away with it, but I’m glad L&O had episodes like that, it made the show more realistic, in real life sometimes perps do get away and cases do have unsatisfactory conclusions. So it made the show more interesting. 

Not only more interesting,  but without those episodes there are no real dramatic stakes. When we know that the bad guys will be always be punished in the end and our heroes will win the only question is how. Which can be interesting, but when the bad guys can get away with it, not only is is more realistic, but there is actually something at risk. It's why the stories are more engaging than other shows where we know how the story will end,

[Katy M]

16 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Not only more interesting,  but without those episodes there are no real dramatic stakes. When we know that the bad guys will be always be punished in the end and our heroes will win the only question is how. Which can be interesting, but when the bad guys can get away with it, not only is is more realistic, but there is actually something at risk. It's why the stories are more engaging than other shows where we know how the story will end,

Yeah.  I can't remember which episodes, but I remember sometimes pretty much holding my breath when the verdict came back.    I'm glad the guilties outweighed the not guilties, but without any there would definitely be less suspense.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Sanctuary tonight, really good and memorable episode, one of those with a frustrating ending as the guy who killed the motorist during the riot should’ve gone to prison.

I liked the scenes between Stone/Shambala and Stone/Schiff, Stone was extremely intense in this one, you could tell how passionate he felt about the case, while he had a stoic and very serious personality and wasn’t as visibly passionate as Jack McCoy was, Stone felt just as strongly about justice. I sided with him at the end when he left Schiff’s office angry about justice not being served, although I also understood where Adam was coming from about wanting the city to heal and not wanting to prolong the conflict, I still thought that they could convict the guy if they retried the case if Shambala wasn’t allowed to present her mob mentality defense and wasn’t allowed to call the guy who hit the kid in the hit and run that started the whole thing, I think his testimony led in part to the jury deadlocking, he came off as racist and elitist.

Note how Stone called Schiff “sir” twice in this episode, Stone used “sir” frequently, especially when showing contempt for someone, but rarely with Schiff whom he was close to, he always called him Adam, like the rest of the DA’s did. It showed how strongly Stone felt about this case and how much he differed with Schiff about it.

I loved Van Buren telling the reverend that no one, no matter who they were, came into her house and accused her detectives of giving people preferential treatment - Van Buren is awesome.

[Xeliou66]

DNR was on tonight - this is a great episode, although it was frustrating to watch Judge Grobman constantly deny to the end that her husband was the one who hired the hitman to kill her.
There was great detective work to find the hitman and then find out who hired him, I liked seeing Briscoe and Green track down the leads and put the pieces together, and the legal stuff was quite good as well. I did think Judge Pongracic should’ve recused herself and I was surprised neither party asked her to, given that she knew the victim and was on a first name basis with her. But yeah the legal stuff was good and I liked Jack’s passion in saying he was going to convict the “narcissistic son of a bitch”, also, Skoda was really good as usual. 
Season 10 has my favorite cast - I love all of the characters, and almost all of the episodes were great. 

[Chyromaniac]

It’s amusing to me how the current syndication is making the show seem far more risqué than it was back in the day.  Like at the end of Rebels, the dead kid’s girlfriend says he liked to ‘play poor and (bleep) poor.’  Well iirc, the word they cut was “screw”- not exactly one of Carlin’s seven.  Maybe they want to play it safe- after all this could’ve aired at 10am too- but it’s still cable.  And like I said, the overall effect is making the show seem dirtier than it was. And, they left Rey saying ass in the cold open from the following episode - so...?

[Xeliou66]

45 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

It’s amusing to me how the current syndication is making the show seem far more risqué than it was back in the day.  Like at the end of Rebels, the dead kid’s girlfriend says he liked to ‘play poor and (bleep) poor.’  Well iirc, the word they cut was “screw”- not exactly one of Carlin’s seven.  Maybe they want to play it safe- after all this could’ve aired at 10am too- but it’s still cable.  And like I said, the overall effect is making the show seem dirtier than it was. And, they left Rey saying ass in the cold open from the following episode - so...?

The censorship is stupid and laughable and makes no sense, as I’ve said before. It’s very random as well, sometimes they bleep words and sometimes they leave the same words in. But yeah it’s a joke how they censor certain lines, for example they censored a line in Purple Heart where a guy says he “took a dump”, it’s beyond weird the stuff they censor. And then sometimes they censor stuff that actually affects the plot - like when they censor the word “douche” in Fools For Love when Rodgers is explaining the killer used a douche on the victim, and they censor “bareback” in Carrier when they were explaining the guy spreading AIDS told people “it’s better bareback”. The bottom line is, the censorship is stupid and drives me nuts. It’s also laughable how the censored episode air on WE when the same network shows commercials for crude reality trash tv every commercial break. 
Fortunately there is no censorship of the later season episodes for some reason, the censorship stops around season 11 or 12.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Xeliou66

[wknt3]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Fortunately there is no censorship of the later season episodes for some reason, the censorship stops around season 11 or 12.

 

As we've discussed before most of the censorship decisions are not made by the individual networks, but by whomever actually did the edits in the package they use since it seems like most cable networks use the broadcast syndication edits since they are shorter and therefore there is more time for insurance commercials and promos for NCIS and Criminal Minds (which are also censored in weird ways, but I digress). It makes no sense because there is no policy, just laziness and the whims of whatever conglomerates were purchasing syndicated shows 10-20 years ago. I suspect that the reason there are no bleeps in later seasons has to do with the mothership having multiple different rights packages floating around (ea;ly seasons, later seasons, entire run) with multiple different edits as well so when WE acquired the later seasons they got episodes without dropped audio for innocuous words.  Perhaps they even got the late season episodes TNT was using, the only cable network that ever seemed to give a [...] about the content they were airing.

[ifionlyknew]

On 8/29/2021 at 12:01 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Fortunately there is no censorship of the later season episodes for some reason, the censorship stops around season 11 or 12.

Probably a coincidence but Season 13 and beyond is what is available on Peacock.

 

[wknt3]

7 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Probably a coincidence but Season 13 and beyond is what is available on Peacock.

 Actually it's probably not, since the availability on Peacock reflects the different rights packages and therefore which episodes would have different censorship standards. I must admit that I haven't watched on Peacock as I always have plenty of good episodes from all seasons with skippable commercials on DVR. Has anyone here watched? Do we at least get the uncut and uncensored network versions of the episodes?

[ifionlyknew]

I only have the free version of Peacock because I already spend a lot of money on other streaming services and Law & Order is not part of free Peacock.  If all seasons were available I would consider it but with only Seasons 13 and up available I will be content to get them from my library when I want to watch them.  I would think they are unedited. 

[shapeshifter]

41 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I only have the free version of Peacock because I already spend a lot of money on other streaming services and Law & Order is not part of free Peacock.  If all seasons were available I would consider it but with only Seasons 13 and up available I will be content to get them from my library when I want to watch them.  I would think they are unedited. 

For me it might wind up being the opposite. That is: If enough other shows that I want to see are only on Peacock Premium, I might wind up subscribing, and then I might happen to watch L&O that way, but probably not if it's just one season.

[shapeshifter]

Just now on Twitter: "I’m now obsessed with variable possible ways Elizabeth Rohm could have read her infamous line… so much backstory could have been told." 
(Click to see a few takes by someone NOT Elizabeth Rohm: https://twitter.com/TomatoNation/status/1433266767472861187.)