Thea Queen: Speedy

[Lisin]

Doting little sister, I find her adorable.

[BkWurm1]

Willa is a great actress too. I remember her from the OC. From the previews it looks like Slade is going to give her a more prominent role in the next episode. Wonder how much she'll find out about Oliver.

[pootlus]

I like Thea, but I'm kinda hoping Slade turns her to the dark side just to see what Willa Holland would do with that kind of role.  Ollie having to fight his sister would also be kind of awesome as well as horrid.

[BkWurm1]

I wouldn't mind a temporary arc where Thea dabbles on the dark side, but I just don't feel like who we have seen Thea is as a character makes sense long term as a bad guy.  She's going to have every right to be angry and disillusioned, but in the long run I want her to have that deep relationship with her brother.  

[Zalyn]

I like Thea, but I'm kinda hoping Slade turns her to the dark side just to see what Willa Holland would do with that kind of role.  Ollie having to fight his sister would also be kind of awesome as well as horrid.

Whooaaa... that would be super-cool.  It would certainly fit given what we know of her background now. I could totally see her bitterly embracing the dark side as Slade's protege - Dark Speedy? - given that she's not in a good place now and being told

about who her dad is

would probably push her over the edge for a bit.  What if she disappeared with Slade for a bit then reappeared as a masked villain taunting Arrow?

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, I think they've set up a dark arc for Thea really well if they choose to go this route. Finding out about Merlyn, as well as finding that Oliver and Roy have both been lying to her in such major ways, would send her reeling I think.

[thuganomics85]

I was really glad to see Thea finally get some focused in this recent episode.  I think Willa Holland is actually pretty good (although, I will admit that I though her chemistry with Stephen Amell in early S1 episodes came off... well, not quite sibling like), so it was nice to see her get some big moments, especially with Moira and Ollie at the end.  And I got a kick out of her interactions with Slade.  I kind of think Slade got a kick out of her mouthing off at him, and now just cowering at his presence.

I do wonder what is going to come out of her knowing the truth about Malcolm, especially if he ends up revealing he's still alive.  I don't want her to just join him or anything at ease, but at the same time.... Will and John Barrowman together would be fun as hell, I imagine.

[Danny Franks]

Hah. Willa looked like she wanted to jump Stephen, in the first few episodes of season 1. So inappropriate, and I had so much fun on the TWoP thread, discussing that stuff. 

I found it interesting in this episode that she directed all of her anger at Oliver, for the secret. She barely even acknowledged Moira. I know that initially that was to play off the, 'Oliver's secret? Oh noez!' aspect of it, but I wonder why they chose to play the whole scene out like that? Even with the idea that she only trusts Oliver, I'd still think she'd want to say something to her mother for boinking Malcolm and creating her.

I find myself really wanting to see her learn the real secret, though. Because I like Thea, and I like the way Willa plays her, and I really enjoyed the sibling stuff (once that chemistry settled down). If Thea could at least become the Team Arrow intern, of sorts, helping Felicity out with stuff, I think a lot of fun could be had with her being down in the cave with the rest of them.

The episode description for 2.20 suggests she's working with Team Arrow in some capacity, to bring Roy to heel, and I'm excited to see how that plays out.

[quarks]

Thea had already figured out that Moira was lying to her. She trusted Oliver, though, and he'd just lied to her just a couple days back while she was begging him for reassurance, so I think her initial reaction was less, "Wait, Mom, I'm Malcolm Merlyn's daughter?" and more "Wow, it really sucks that the most trustworthy person in my life is my kidnapper." 

I like to think that after Slade told her, even he felt he had to give poor Thea a hug. 

[KirkB]

If memory serves she had a talk with Oliver not so long ago that he was the only person in her life she could trust. The only one who wasn't lying to her or hiding things from her. I think she's come to expect this kind of thing from Moira, as much as she loves her mother, and so that doesn't surprise her. But finding out her big brother, her protector, knew this and hid it from her? That hurts.

[Carrie Ann]

Oh, I think she was hurt by her mother too, but not surprised. And if she were trying to hurt her mother, completely ignoring her--making it clear how little faith she had in Moira to begin with and how completely done she is now--would do the trick.

[jeannie]

I was really expecting Thea's reaction to the Merlyn news to be much more intense. I get why she's mad at Oliver for not telling her (everyone else has already pointed out why). But she just found out that:

1) Her mom has been lying to her for her entire life about her parentage.

2) The dad that she adored is not actually her bio-dad.

3) Her bio-dad is the guy who literally destroyed half of the city, and is basically an evil mastermind.

4) For several years, she had a huge crush on her half-brother.

Honestly, I thought she was going to run away after hearing the news, so that she could have time on her own to process everything.

[Danny Franks]

I was really expecting Thea's reaction to the Merlyn news to be much more intense. I get why she's mad at Oliver for not telling her (everyone else has already pointed out why). But she just found out that:

1) Her mom has been lying to her for her entire life about her parentage.

2) The dad that she adored is not actually her bio-dad.

3) Her bio-dad is the guy who literally destroyed half of the city, and is basically an evil mastermind.

4) For several years, she had a huge crush on her half-brother.

Honestly, I thought she was going to run away after hearing the news, so that she could have time on her own to process everything.

And the only thing she has reacted to, so far, is that Oliver didn't tell her the truth. Talk about everything always coming back to Oliver Queen!

Hopefully they will allow Thea to react fully and genuinely to everything that Malcolm being her father should mean to her.

[Zalyn]

And the only thing she has reacted to, so far, is that Oliver didn't tell her the truth. Talk about everything always coming back to Oliver Queen!

Hopefully they will allow Thea to react fully and genuinely to everything that Malcolm being her father should mean to her.

Agreed.  I'm just hoping that it's a (common) delayed reaction to shocking, world-changing news and we'll get to see her process the rest next episode.

I also think this sets a nice stage for Malcolm to get involved in a three-way with Oliver and Slade.  Altercation!  A three-way altercation!  Nothing weird, of course.  /Felicity

[Danny Franks]

Agreed.  I'm just hoping that it's a (common) delayed reaction to shocking, world-changing news and we'll get to see her process the rest next episode.

I also think this sets a nice stage for Malcolm to get involved in a three-way with Oliver and Slade.  Altercation!  A three-way altercation!  Nothing weird, of course.  /Felicity

Barrowman would be intrigued by this idea of a three way with Stephen Amell and Manu Bennett, I'm sure.

While I wish Malcolm had stayed dead, I have to confess I'm looking forward to seeing Barrowman return and eyefuck every single person he's in a scene with. As he is wont to do. It just might be a bit squicky, in the inevitable scenes with Thea.

[Zalyn]

While I wish Malcolm had stayed dead, I have to confess I'm looking forward to seeing Barrowman return and eyefuck every single person he's in a scene with. As he is wont to do. It just might be a bit squicky, in the inevitable scenes with Thea.

That could actually play out really well from actor to character - Malcolm trying to be all doting and loving and Thea being, "ew, gross... but I'm intrigued nonetheless because I now have a hot dad...who's a murderer."

Edited April 5, 2014 by Zalyn

[MarDelSol]

After being my most disliked character of season 1, I've been pleasantly surprised by Thea in season 2. She's become one of my favorite female characters, and maybe the one with the most promise if they ever give her something to do, which they finally seem to be doing. I don't know if it's because the material is better, but her acting has been great this season too.

I also think Slade's "What could a 19 year old girl possibly do to me?" or whatever was foreshadowing to her eventually going to back to her supposedly excellent archery.

[Zalyn]

I hope that Thea gets to do something cool, even if it's not fighting.  I feel like she's really in her element running the bar, and the owner of the bar/tavern always gets a few levels in badass.

Someone noted that if Laurel gets heroed up, Thea would be the only "normal" regular character to be menaced, meaning she'd probably have to get kidnapped every week. It reminded me of the "Dawn's in trouble... it must be Tuesday" quip from Buffy.  Fortunately, they seem to have gotten Thea out of Dawn territory pretty quickly.

[Actionmage]

Well, even if Thea doesn't hero-up, she could be a valuable asset in intel gathering. She runs a club. In The Glades. Where rich folk come to drink, dance, and let slip their plans for global domination- what could be better? 

I am only half-joking, in that somehow, word on the street is going to be as valuable as police intel and Felicity's hacking; it's a needed resource. It could be cool to see Thea and Sin work together to scope out what's what. Willa, as Thea, being all snarky and worried little sister to her bro, the Arrow. Or her boyfried, The Hood(ie).

[Zalyn]

Well, even if Thea doesn't hero-up, she could be a valuable asset in intel gathering. She runs a club. In The Glades. Where rich folk come to drink, dance, and let slip their plans for global domination- what could be better? 

I am only half-joking, in that somehow, word on the street is going to be as valuable as police intel and Felicity's hacking; it's a needed resource. It could be cool to see Thea and Sin work together to scope out what's what. Willa, as Thea, being all snarky and worried little sister to her bro, the Arrow. Or her boyfried, The Hood(ie).

Exactly!  There is so much great potential for Willa to do some good scenes where Thea is plying customers with extra drinks to charm them into spilling the beans; she brings a good emotional energy when Thea is dominant in a conversation.  She could be someone like Kenya (Defiance) in terms of confidence and sociability (minus the prostitution).

[Zalyn]

While watching "Seeing Red," I'm feeling like Thea is starting to emulate Moira; there were some scenes where she really seemed like her mother in how she spoke and carried herself.  I wonder if it's intentional acting by Willa (which would be really cool) or just coincidence. 

[Zalyn]

I'm beginning to think I'm one of only a few Thea fans, but I really like this development with her going off and wanting to become strong.  It gives some nice future opportunities for family drama and character clash, fall-from-grace and redemption (I'm a sucker for those, see Spike's and Wesley's arcs).  And I also think that Willa has enough emotional layers to be able to pull it off, especially working with Jon Barrowman.  Hopefully we'll get to see some training for her that doesn't involve slapping water.

[bluebonnet]

I'm a Thea fan.  I find her a little irritating in that teenager sort of way, but I still really enjoy her arc.  It makes sense and I always find myself eager to see where her story leads.  

[Zalyn]

I'm hoping that the "annoying teenager" aspect will go away and be replaced by some cold resolve and bitterness; I'm looking forward to Oliver trying to figure out how to relate to his sister after her "crucible."

[bluebonnet]

Now that I'm thinking about it, it seems like Thea more than others had her 'island' experience this season.  She starts off the season learning just how much she has been lied to by someone she loves, she's almost completely separated from the life she was living in season 1 (she was managing a club rather than drug cocktails).  Sure, she was surrounded by a lot of people often especially at the club, but she was also 'alone' a lot.  Team Arrow was secretly downstairs, her mother was secretly meeting with Malcolm, Roy was secretly becoming a sidekick.  All these secrets were like a big ocean around her.  

 

I really like how they played out her 'rescue' because she wasn't actually being rescued.  She shot Malcolm!  Then she walked away from him.  She was allowed to decide for herself that she wanted off her 'island'.  Sure, her bio daddy is a mass murderer but she went with eyes wide open.  

[statsgirl]

I think they've been too busy with other storylines the last two seasons to do justice to Thea and Willa Holland.  She's a good actress and she'll do a lot with the role if they give her the chance.

 

I like how Thea ended the season, disillusioned with Oliver and Roy, and  heading off with Merlyn to see what he can teach her.  It's a great opportunity to give her some real fighting skills (along with her archery trophies) plus she gets to be an antagonist to Oliver and Roy when she comes back.

[Danny Franks]

This storyline is just ridiculous. I have no time for Thea suddenly deciding to trust Malcolm Merlyn because...  he tells her she should, and that she shouldn't trust other people. Right, because he doesn't have any ulterior motives, huh?

 

I said it's pure comic book nonsense logic in the episode thread, and it really is. Of course she leaves with Malcolm, because Oliver and Roy are keeping secrets. That's obviously the natural thing to do. Yeah.

[Zalyn]

Sorry you don't care for how things are going, Danny.  Any suggestions on what you'd have liked to see?

 

I personally felt this was a good balance of Thea's agency (i.e. she makes a decision, however bad, for herself), setting up future dynamics, and tapping into inter-family politics (which formed a strong framework for the beginning of the show). 

 

The struggle with one's identity when it's discovered that your father isn't your father and someone else whom you despise is is a powerful one that is usually reserved for male characters, which makes this doubly intriguing for me since it's less common to see it done with a "smaller" character (a little sister) and a female one at that.

 

But I'd like to hear other options for the sake of argument.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Zalyn

[Danny Franks]

I just don't believe in the mechanisms that put this storyline into place, for a start.

 

Oliver blithely saying, 'Thea left town. She's fine' was absurd. Considering Slade just killed Moira, the fact that it never crosses Oliver's mind that he might go back for Thea is without credibility, in my eyes. And, as I said, I don't believe in the silly, 'Thea Queen was trusting. I'm not her any more' garbage. Yeah, they kept some secrets, but instead of sitting them down and demanding the truth, she takes off with a crazy man who tried to destroy the city. This isn't a case of her identity, because she knows full well who Merlyn is, and what he's done. And Thea is not an idiot.

 

I don't even think it's about Thea's agency either, because I'm already seeing her becoming Malcolm's pawn in season 3, and being used against Oliver. Because everything on the show revolves around Oliver. There's no way Thea gets an independent storyline out of this.

 

What else could they have done? Have Thea discover Oliver's secret, for one. That would have been the organic way of confronting the trust issues. Remember back in season 1, when she seemed to suspect him? Remember how it was never followed up on? Go back to that. Because Thea has so, so, so many questions about her brother, and the people he knows, and the violence that surrounds him. And she just doesn't bother asking. Will she ask Merlyn? I bet she won't, so that she can be surprised when Merlyn sets her against the Arrow in season 3. 'Oh my god, I've sworn a vendetta against my daddy's enemy, and it's actually my brother!' Nope. Not for me.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Danny Franks]

It'd be interesting to see Thea training with Merlyn but secretly being against him. She would be on the inside, gaining his trust and then could go back to Starling to find the Arrow and ask him to help her take down Merlyn once and for all. It won't happen but I'd love to see brother and sister working together against him.

 

 

See, now that would actually be interesting. But nowhere near angsty and tortuous enough for the CW. Why go with something that actually makes sense for a character when they can have brother vs sister, family drama instead?

 

I just feel like Thea took a whole bunch of stupid pills, at some point during this episode.

[icandigit]

I can't tell if it's a good story idea or not. I'm so blinded by need for Thea to know Oliver's secret and for them to reconcile.

[bluebonnet]

I don't really see Thea's decision as the result of stupid pills or anything.  It felt organic because turning away from her current life was built up over the course of the season.  Even if it turns out to be a bad choice, even if she's used as a pawn, the decision to leave with Merlyn was still about Thea's agency.  No one kidnapped her, no one threatened her with injury if she didn't go with, she didn't have a bodyguard put on her.  She shot her bio daddy and told him that he was a madman afterwards.  She's not blind to who and what he is.  It was not a rash decision because she walked away from him and took the time to go see and speak to Roy.  Where Thea knows what Malcolm is all about, she is still fairly clueless about Roy.  Granted, Roy still didn't know that the Arrow took him down when he was going after Thea but he still told a complete lie instead of saying something like "please let's not talk about him right now, I just want that to be over and focus on us for the moment."  

 

The lies people tell Thea are supposedly meant to protect her but it's also really belittling.  When they lie, it's like telling her that's she's a weak and fragile tulip. She's no longer the girl who ran her car into a tree.  She's ran a night club, she's made new relationships, she's learned to deal with death.  She can make decisions for herself.  Having agency doesn't mean that the decisions one makes are necessarily good.  This could very well turn out to be a bad decision depending on how it plays out (if she's a pawn or if she maintains control of herself), but it was still a choice she made on her own.  She's been wanting to be seen as a person of strength, so leaving a note that she wants to be strong works with the story they've told so far.  

 

I agree that it's outlandish, but I would be underwhelmed if it weren't.  I watch zombie movies expecting zombie munchies, I read fantasy expecting magical unicorns, I watch comic book shows expecting the wildly exaggerated.  The fights are bigger, the villains are more evil, the angst is angstier, the logic is not grounded in reality.  When it's a comic book show on the CW network, I expect all that plus stuff like love triangles (especially sibling swapping, CW loves that shit), and crazy family drama.  All I ask is that the writers work to make the story believable no matter how preposterous some things are.  Believability has a lot to do with consistency (if people are going to stop to watch the news while Starling City is falling down, at least they are consistent about it!) and Thea's story remained consistent.   

[Actionmage]

Actually, after the crazy with Roy's knee getting arrowed, I think that Thea could've doped out Ollie= Arrow. She's not stupid (and he's a very bad liar), but she may have been waiting for Oliver to come clean to her on his own, as a sign of trust.

 

I agree about being interested in seeing Thea embracing her agency. Since there was no one else around that she did trust, she went with a plan making the most of the devil she knew. I remember that age. While my birth father isn't a psychopathic villain, making my choices- right or wrong- felt a bit liberating. Feeling like an adult, in that I was responsible for myself.

 

I think that Merlyn has underestimated Moira's influence, and how much of a tiger-by-the-tail he has now.

[BkWurm1]

This storyline is just ridiculous. I have no time for Thea suddenly deciding to trust Malcolm Merlyn because...  he tells her she should, and that she shouldn't trust other people. Right, because he doesn't have any ulterior motives, huh?

 

I don't see it about Thea trusting Malcolm at all. He was offering to make her strong.  Yes he has his own motives, but Thea thinks she is using him, not the other way around or at least she thinks she can manage him. 

 

It's this back and forth, both of them playing each other, dynamic that I am really looking forward to.  WIla took a terrible character back when she was on the OC and (talk about bitchy and bratty) and made me love that character.  She has wonderful emotional range and combine that with what Barrowman will bring, yeah, if the writers don't completely screw it up it should be a real highlight. 

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, it seems like Thea more than others had her 'island' experience this season

 

I'd extend it back through all the time Oliver was missing as well. She's already had her downward spiral and hit bottom only to pull herself together (in a manner more impressive than Laurel IMO) Now everything she'd worked for is gone along with her ability to trust anyone.  So she is trying to ensure that the only person she needs to trust is herself and that is why I think she agreed to go with Malcolm, do become strong enough so that she doesn't need anyone.

 

Of course her arc will be learning to let people back in.  I'm hoping she never gets misled by Malcolm's twisted thinking but she might end up in a no win situation that seemingly forces her down a darker path, but I can't believe she would willingly walk it. 

[Zalyn]

I don't see it about Thea trusting Malcolm at all. He was offering to make her strong.  Yes he has his own motives, but Thea thinks she is using him, not the other way around or at least she thinks she can manage him.

Not only that, but I think Malcolm is the first person to see strength in her and to praise it.  Psychologically, if she sees her perceived lack of strength as the reason everyone lies to her (because SHE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!), then becoming strong will stop that. But if no one in her life sees her as strong except for this crazy man (who is smart enough to plan to survive a gunshot) who is stronger than anyone she knows, then it makes sense that she'd go with him. 

 

Who else does she have?  For all her big talk about leaving Starling City and going off on her own, she never has had to be alone or self-sufficient (minus her short time running the club - backslide time!).  So it makes sense, characterwise, that she'd turn to the first person who proves their strength and sees the potential in her, even if it's clearly a Bad Idea. 

[statsgirl]

The interviews from the upfronts are out.  John Barrowman on how Malcolm's sees his relationship with Thea:

 

 

Barrowman, a newly minted series regular, says he has high hopes for his new family unit in Season 3.

"My theory behind it, as the guy who plays Malcolm, is that Malcolm has always been able to manipulate people physically and with money, but he lost his son, Tommy, through emotion," Barrowman says. "Tommy decided to become a hero because he loved somebody. Malcolm is getting right in there with Thea at her emotional low to try to control and manipulate her and do his best to make her the toughest cookie that she can be and also to have some control over her."

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/arrow_season_3_emily_bett_rickards_and_john_barrowman_promise_more_olicity_and_malcolm-2014-05

 

On the other hand, he lost his wife because he pushed away the emotion to work, and she died.

 

Thea is at her lowest ever, so it will be interesting to see if she lets Malcolm in, and to what extent  he can manipulate it.

Edited May 18, 2014 by statsgirl

[Zalyn]

Good find!  I like his interpretation, and it fits with my read of Thea.  I never said Thea was making a good decision, just that it can be seen as consistent with her emotional and psychological state from her perspective.  And it's good to see that JB is setting up Malcolm as fitting snugly with her state of mind. 

[Actionmage]

Okay, after that Barrowman quote, I want to see Nyssa and Thea  in some scenes, compare/contrasting their bonkers fathers and how they deal. Maybe Nyssa having a vague respect  of sorts for Oliver  could open Nyssa to taking Thea as a student. If Sara's around, so much the better.

 

I would like to see, ideally, later part of the season or the next season (if we are that lucky.)

[slayer2]

Okay,two episodes in and I still hate this character, she's Arrow's version of Dawn to me. Nothing makes her happy. Ugh! Blerg.

Edited May 22, 2014 by slayer2

[statsgirl]

Hang in there. She gets better, although it takes till s2 to do it.

 

I did like it when she lit into Oliver for pushing the family away when he got back, when they were so devastated when the boat went down.  Oliver needs to be smacked upside the head regularly.

[KirkB]

Thea was an entitled little brat for a long time, but then again so was Oliver. And yes, she gets much better.

[statsgirl]

Speaking of entitled brats, another thing I liked was when Thea was was behaving badly, Oliver told Moira that Thea needed more maternal discipline  based on his own experience, and Moira listened.

[slayer2]

Thanks guys, I'll look out for that.

[BkWurm1]

Thea was an entitled, spoiled brat in the first season but she's so clearly acting that way because of all she's lost and all she so desperately needs/wants (love, attention) it made it easy for me to forgive her for acting like she did.  Oliver coming home was supposed to giver her back the big brother that she could count on and instead she only got back a shell.  There's a great scene where she's begging Oliver to open up to her but nope, he turns to Laurel, thus sealing my Laurel hatred.  

[slayer2]

See, that wouldn't seal my hatred of Laurel because to me I just think, what about him? To me yes Thea has been through a lot but it's a mere fraction of what Oliver has been through. If I were his sister I'd be there for him in whatever capacity HE needed, he was the one marooned on the island being tortured and subjected to every horror, it's the veteran analogy again for me.

Where would it leave vets if all they came back to was recrimination and hatred from their family for not returning the person that their family or friends knew. To me Thea's solipsisim is unforgiveable, this is the exact moment when family is supposed to shine not fail you and yell at you for it.

I'm six episodes in and the way you feel about Laurel is how I feel about Thea, I hope Malcolm Merlyn strangles her in her sleep. Hate.

Edited May 23, 2014 by slayer2

[Password]

I can't help but feel Thea is exactly what Oliver was pre island, except for, maybe the sleeping around. That is vintage Ollie Queen. She's a child who has had basically no parents to guide her through her pain. She's placed all her hopes on her big brother whom on return is not whom she expected to be. Expecting too much emotional maturity from Thea is unfair from us considering what she has also been through. I'm not defending her harping on about his emotional availability, but just like Oliver she has a mom who sets no boundaries for her, gives her no moral direction and allows her to do whatever she wants. Of course she's going to be irrational because that's all she knows how to do. She gets what she wants and Oliver's return is what she wanted but not the pretty picture she had in her head.

If anything I blame Moira's horrible parenting for Thea because even though she is a hurting mother she is the adult in their relationships.

[slayer2]

I simply cannot agree with that, I went through a lot worse than Thea did as a child and I'm not an entitled asshole. There comes a point where you take responsibility, parents fuck you up that's kind of theor job. I don't agree Oliver was as bad as this either, those wounds he took for Ivo (?) without giving him up in the last episode I watched tell me he wasn't.

He always had the heart of a hero but it was buried deep down there. I couldn't imagine in a million years Thea doing the same thing. I'm not letting her off the hook because she doesn't have doting parental figures because at the end of the story she had a mother who gave her life for her and a father who chose to be her dad regardless of biology. I'm not giving her any such pass because she doesn't deserve one, there are bigger things at stake than her "pain".

Starling City is falling apart, did she ever think to climb out of her castle and volunteer her services to people who ACTUALLY need sympathy instead of whining and blaming everyone around her? What about the fact that anybody who lost someone would gove anything to have them back her wildest dream came true and because it's not what she wanted she's busy telling him he shouldn't have bothered.

She's 17 yrs old not 12 and I reckon even a 12year old would be more grateful.

Entitlement doesn't sit well with me and this little bitch has it in spades. I will never feel sympathy for her.

Edited May 23, 2014 by slayer2

[Password]

Our environment shapes us and our habits. If what we're surrounded with is the exact opposite of what we should be doing I don't see how it would be the norm for her to give any other reaction than spoilt child. I don't know your situation and what you've gone through but every person is different. The high road is less travelled for a reason. It takes a special person to be able to see a way out when so many can't see past their own situations.

And I kind of disagree about Oliver being a hero. I think the island made him realise he can't go through life the way he did, only caring for himself. It taught him about caring for others before himself and allowed him to see he can make a difference in a really poor excuse of a world. That's why his arc was so important for him to understand he can choose to be a hero and he became one.

[Zalyn]

The veteran analogy is apt (I served in the Navy, no combat), but what you're missing is that Oliver isn't telling people what he went through.  We, the audience, see all the bad horrible stuff he went through on Flashback Island, but he's consistently refused to tell people what he's gone through.  So while there is an abstract knowledge that he probably wasn't sitting on a beach chair sipping Mai Tais, they really don't get what he went through.  It is incorrect to judge characters in the show based on our knowledge - that's a type of meta-gaming. We have to recognize that when there are things people don't know, they will see the same situation very differently.

 

This is also a problem/challenge with soldiers - I remember some of the shit we went through (jet fuel in the water supply, were told it was tested to be safe), and I highly doubt that they told their families about it when we returned from deployment.  All their families would know is that "some stuff sucked", if the servicemember even says that much; there is immense pressure and pride to not seem whiney, so many will focus just on the good things. Then their family will see behavior that contradicts the "deployment was awesome" line and get really confused. 

 

And frankly, I see civilians complain about things that may seem petty in comparison, but no one likes to have their life disrupted, and Thea's life was certainly disrupted - she lost her father and her brother and mourned them for five years, then was told that her brother was alive. Trauma is trauma, and losing not one, but two family members when one previously was in a very comfortable, pampered life, will very likely break someone badly.  And finding out that one family member is in fact alive, but completely changed (while refusing to share some of why) is doubly traumatizing.  I don't see how a 17 year old could handle that very well; I have a younger sibling, and I remember how much they'd follow me around constantly and measure themselves by me.  If I had "died", even if I came back, we would not be able to return to life as before; we would have to renegotiate a new relationship because neither of us would be the same.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Zalyn

[slayer2]

He withstood the torture in the first week or so of being there. Also 17 is old enough to know better, most people's parents suck, does it give them permission to be an asshole? I don't think so, Thea hasn't been through that much in relation to their rich kids shipped off to boarding school.

Her father died yes, lots of father die. Her brother came back from the dead and she's being an asshole about it and that's the bottom line for me. I don't care much how Oliver was when he was her age, none of that changes the fact that her brother came back from the dead and she's being an asshole about it. I've concluded that she's being an asshole because she is an asshole you can only blame your parents for so long, her mother took a sword for her and she was still an immature asshole. Maybe if she acted like an adult people would treat her like one, you could throw a stone and hit anyone with more maturity IMO.

Zalyn thanks for that perspective, it makes sense. I still think there's a lack of empathy there though, she's seen the scars on his body. If my brother came back with scars like that all over her body I would try to relate to her in any way I could. But I wouldn't push him I would follow his pace and be there if he needed me andnI'd let him know that. I don't think that's particular to her age because a teenager is still capable of love and love is what is needed here not all this other bullshit.

Edited May 23, 2014 by slayer2