Last Man Standing - General Discussion

[readster]

It was funny, I was looking at "Friday Death Slots" the last few days as research for media classes and it's amazing that there has been a pattern with ABC before and after Disney owned them. They had shows that were successful in on night (LMS was original on Tuesdays) then moved to try to make it work on Friday nights to get ratings. Which, they show did and continued on for another 5 years. However, marked how they had changes usually brought on by the main producer or writers as a result. We know that when they shifted, Tim Allen wanted more of his political beliefs brought up and when the show wanted to age Boyd because of fall outs with the twins playing him from HBO. They did a major change of actors as a result. The show started taking it's nose dive and then there were quick changes. Funny, how history repeats itself. 

[Brattinella]

I see that AGAIN they are stating that politics had NOTHING to do with the cancellation.  DOY!  Do you really think the public is that stupid, Channing Dungey, ABC President of Entertainment?  Why are you again trying to fool us with this BS?

[TomServo]

On 9/24/2016 at 2:45 AM, Pegasaurus said:

Ok - First show of the new season!  I was looking forward to it but now, I'm not sure if I was disappointed or not.

Random thoughts:

1. Kind of a silly story line. None of the actors seemed to be into this episode. LIke they knew it was stupid.

(Commenting on the entire thread at once) It was silly.  But only half as silly as the cartoon-level-CGI tornado episode!
 

On 10/1/2016 at 7:16 PM, Maharincess said:

Didn't the older sister used to say Kyle pretty seriously at one time? And now he's marrying a different sister?  

I don't pay enough attention to the credits to know for sure, but I have long suspected that they made changes to the writing crew in addition to the cast between seasons 1 and 2 and probably also more since.  When that happens, you often get shows that don't mesh with what's already been shown.  See also: Gilmore Girls.  Unless, of course, the original showrunner can't remember her own plot lines and then you get them anyway.  See also: Gilmore Girls.  But I digress...  They also completely forgot that Mike was the one who intended to set Kyle up with Mandy in the first place and gave him lines where he complained about the kinds of guys his daughters pick.  If they'd remembered that detail, they could have turned it into something funnier.
 

On 10/21/2016 at 8:56 PM, readster said:

Plus, where is Muffin the dog? 

Carol is walking him.
 

On 12/12/2016 at 10:23 AM, readster said:

That makes as much sense as where Ryan got his credits to homeschool Boyd. You can't just say: "I'm homeschooling my kid." You have to be recognized with the state and be assessed that he is receiving fair education than he would if he was in private or public school. Yet, this is sitcom land, logic doesn't need to apply. 

This sitcom is set in Colorado.  In Colorado, homeschooling parents send in a letter of intent once a year that says something to the effect of, "I'm homeschooling my kid."  According to CDE, "You must be the child's parent, legal guardian or an adult relative designated by the parent. (22-33-104.5(3)(a), C.R.S.) No other qualifications or licenses are required."  What Ryan did on the show is not inconsistent with that.

Colorado Homeschool Law

Colorado Dept. of Education Homeschool FAQ

 

On 1/28/2017 at 9:20 AM, readster said:

However, it isn't like Ryan isn't getting some money for homeschooling Ryan, he still has to teach him, he is certified to teach his son K-8 education. So, it isn't like he isn't making money, just not enough and since it was pretty much Mike's idea to either put Boyd is private school or homeschool him, now he is going to complain about it? 

Where would Ryan's money be coming from?  He's homeschooling his own kid, not running a tutoring business for other people's homeschooled kids.  Did I miss an episode where Mike and Vanessa offered to pay Ryan the tuition they were planning to use to send Boyd to private school?  Homeschooling costs additional money; it doesn't bring in money.
  

On 4/6/2017 at 5:27 AM, Steff said:

I don't pick apart sitcoms the same way I would a drama or movie.  It's funny or it's not. 

For the most part, I am the same way.  For minor-to-moderate inconsistencies, I eyeroll and then move on.

[jumper sage]

I finally caught 1 comment from Mike on the Trump thing.  It was the episode where the league that Outdoor Man plays in went coed.  The employees took a vote to add a woman or leave the league.  Mike voted to go coed.  Here's the sneaky part - Vanessa asks if Mike regrets his vote (regarding the softball league) and Mikes says, "I thought he would be a good President".  That's it!  I find it very telling that his personal blog was scrubbed of all politics.

I agree the first Kristen was the best.  I agree Vanessa was written as an idiot.  I agree that Ryan's role on the show is to somehow show that the left is as loopy as he is and unnecessary. 

[readster]

On 11/29/2017 at 1:38 PM, jumper sage said:

I finally caught 1 comment from Mike on the Trump thing.  It was the episode where the league that Outdoor Man plays in went coed.  The employees took a vote to add a woman or leave the league.  Mike voted to go coed.  Here's the sneaky part - Vanessa asks if Mike regrets his vote (regarding the softball league) and Mikes says, "I thought he would be a good President".  That's it!  I find it very telling that his personal blog was scrubbed of all politics.

I agree the first Kristen was the best.  I agree Vanessa was written as an idiot.  I agree that Ryan's role on the show is to somehow show that the left is as loopy as he is and unnecessary. 

One of my new coworkers caught the show in reruns and enjoyed the first Kristen better than Amanda Fuller. She thought the original idea for Ryan worked, but the one they replaced him with she was surprised no one tried to run him over with a car or didn't piss off the wrong person with his right wing idiocy. She did believe the most stupidest thing was making Vanessa getting less and less intelligent as the series went on, that her being a teacher for over 14 years commented how much the show really got it wrong. As I said many posts back, if Vanessa was cut due to pay increases. That would have been done up front, not just pretend to let her work when she was out of a job because: "that will hurt her feelings." 

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, readster said:

She thought the original idea for Ryan worked, but the one they replaced him with she was surprised no one tried to run him over with a car or didn't piss off the wrong person with his right wing idiocy.

Ryan was pretty far from right-wing.  Not sure what show you guys were watching.

[jumper sage]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Ryan was pretty far from right-wing.  Not sure what show you guys were watching.

Agreed!  He was supposed to be the depiction of the granola eating left but since the character is from Canada I never quite got the point.

[readster]

7 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Agreed!  He was supposed to be the depiction of the granola eating left but since the character is from Canada I never quite got the point.

I don't think anyone did. Especially when they hammered it in he was from Canada and never explained what the hell he was doing in Colorado attending high school.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, readster said:

I don't think anyone did. Especially when they hammered it in he was from Canada and never explained what the hell he was doing in Colorado attending high school.

He was a foreign exchange student:)

[readster]

On 12/1/2017 at 6:17 AM, Katy M said:

He was a foreign exchange student:)

Which didn't make any sense either when they revealed that Mike and Vanessa had met his parents and even in the "daddy is dying" episode. Where Mike even said: "I don't remember him being this crazy before?" Ryan's backstory kept changing considering how much the writers wanted to make him seem less like an asshole, and they made him a bigger one in the process. Including how Vanessa always jumped on his side when she went: "He's our grandson's father." Yeah, newsbreak, he was still a dumbass and self absorbed in his limited world view just Mike became. 

[readster]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:30 PM, Brattinella said:

I see that AGAIN they are stating that politics had NOTHING to do with the cancellation.  DOY!  Do you really think the public is that stupid, Channing Dungey, ABC President of Entertainment?  Why are you again trying to fool us with this BS?

Politics always goes into things like this. The reason for the move back in season 2 was because they wanted to try and get viewship up on Friday nights again. Even though the show had no competition and was doing well even when there wasn't any Dancing with the Stars Results shows. The move and the major cast and story changes to Friday nights hurt the shows ratings, but it still won it its slot, but never got what it was doing on Tuesday nights. But it was what the studio wanted not what was working just fine. 

[paulvdb]

‘Last Man Standing’ Eyes Resurrection At Fox With Star Tim Allen Set to Return

Quote

A year after Last Man Standing was canceled by ABC, the multi-camera comedy starring Tim Allen is plotting a comeback on a new network. Last Man Standing producer 20th Century Fox TV is in talks with sibling Fox Broadcasting Co. for a new season of the series, which would be its seventh.

Quote

Insiders caution there are still many deals to close and the show’s return is by no means a sure thing but there are promising signs that a seventh season is possible. Fox and 20th TV declined comment.

[readster]

2 hours ago, paulvdb said:

‘Last Man Standing’ Eyes Resurrection At Fox With Star Tim Allen Set to Return

The problem is, will Fox put up the money and does the "entire" cast want to return? I can see Nancy Travis, as she hasn't be doing anything. However, I think Ed has a contract with ABC for another 2 years, you can't do Outdoor Man without Ed and Fox will not payout to have Jay Leno guest star. If it does go through, it would be almost a year and a half since the show went off the air. Will it get a big enough audience? 

[Brattinella]

Hooray!!  I so hope it materializes!

[break21]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:53 PM, readster said:

The problem is, will Fox put up the money and does the "entire" cast want to return? I can see Nancy Travis, as she hasn't be doing anything. However, I think Ed has a contract with ABC for another 2 years, you can't do Outdoor Man without Ed and Fox will not payout to have Jay Leno guest star. If it does go through, it would be almost a year and a half since the show went off the air. Will it get a big enough audience? 

Both Nancy Travis and Ed are under contracts for shows in the Fall.  I don't know how they could do it without them unless they worked out a deal to make brief guest appearances.

[Katy M]

19 minutes ago, break21 said:

Both Nancy Travis and Ed are under contracts for shows in the Fall.  I don't know how they could do it without them unless they worked out a deal to make brief guest appearances.

I love Ed, but he could easily be written out as having retired and gone to live with one of his daughters or something.  Vanessa is obviously much more problematic.  You could kill her off, but that's just not sitcom-y.  You could recast her, but that doesn't usually go well.  And, divorce, I guess, but also not sitcom-y for a happy couple and they seem like the type who would try to work it out and since they haven't been having serious trouble it would seem out of the blue.  When something dies, sometimes you just gotta let it stay dead.

[readster]

35 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I love Ed, but he could easily be written out as having retired and gone to live with one of his daughters or something.  Vanessa is obviously much more problematic.  You could kill her off, but that's just not sitcom-y.  You could recast her, but that doesn't usually go well.  And, divorce, I guess, but also not sitcom-y for a happy couple and they seem like the type who would try to work it out and since they haven't been having serious trouble it would seem out of the blue.  When something dies, sometimes you just gotta let it stay dead.

Right and despite how much they made Vanessa an airhead over the course of the series. It would not be easy to write her out for any of the given reasons. Ed, there are many ways from retirement to even death. 

[WendyCR72]

From TV Line:

http://tvline.com/2018/05/11/last-man-standing-season-7-fox-revival-tim-allen-renewed/

[sonyab]

Yeah I just read about that!!! With a lot of my shows being cancelled, I am happy about this one!!!!!! :)

[Jimbo]

On 5/7/2018 at 12:41 PM, break21 said:

Both Nancy Travis and Ed are under contracts for shows in the Fall. 

Ed's only commitment is to a pilot that isn't expected to be picked up. So I read that as long as that goes how it's expected to go, he's back. Nancy Travis' commitment was to a Netflix show and she is also confirmed to come back to LMS, according to what I read. So no worries with those two.

[Jimbo]

Really glad this show is coming back!!

2 hours ago, Pegasaurus said:

And maybe Ed could make occasional guest appearances?

Ed's pilot isn't expected to be picked up, and so he should be back.

 

2 hours ago, Pegasaurus said:

Hoping Molly Ephraim and Kaitlyn Dever sign on.   Can't imagine the show without them. 

Same here.

[readster]

38 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Really glad this show is coming back!!

Ed's pilot isn't expected to be picked up, and so he should be back.

 

Same here.

Yeah, same with Nancy, so explains how they got her back. However, really, they need to bring Eve and Mandy back. I'm sorry, if it's Kristin, Ryan and Boyd only, should have let the show die.

[Brattinella]

https://www.chron.com/entertainment/article/Last-Man-Standing-officially-renewed-at-Fox-12907975.php

Hooray!!!  And at Fox, not ABC!

[ae2]

Seriously, Eve and Mandy were often the best part of the show, whether it was their relationship with their dad or with each other. Without them I'm out.

[readster]

1 hour ago, ae2 said:

Seriously, Eve and Mandy were often the best part of the show, whether it was their relationship with their dad or with each other. Without them I'm out.

Something Fox really has to look at here, especially bringing back a show that was not only on another Network, but was a classic laugh track comedy is making sure they keep what people enjoyed about the show. If they feel they can do their bastardized version of "Archie Bunker" between Mike and Ryan and then can't use either Eve, Mandy and yes, Kyle and continue with Vanessa "I have a PhD but I don't know how to tie my shoes". Then they will be lucky if they make it the 13 episode pick up. Especially when the show will at that point been gone almost a year and a half. Fox did some very bone headed cancellations this season, critics and other networks have been like: "You cancelled a show that was doing fine in ratings and you have no other reality series to fall back on like ABC? What are you thinking?" Brooklyn 99 is going to NBC, Lucifer is most likely going to DC's new Streaming Service and outside their animation block and professional sports. Fox has nothing, so to put this kind of money to bring the series back that honestly had a horrible send off. Yeah, big gamble and if they can't get back almost the entire cast, they are up a creek. 

[paulvdb]

FOX Announces New Primetime Schedule for 2018-2019 Season

Quote

FRIDAY
8:00-8:30 PM LAST MAN STANDING

[readster]

5 minutes ago, paulvdb said:

FOX Announces New Primetime Schedule for 2018-2019 Season

I guess they are hoping that since it's the old time, it will get everyone back. 

[Jimbo]

14 hours ago, readster said:

I guess they are hoping that since it's the old time, it will get everyone back. 

One article I read made a valid point--ABC didn't advertise this show at all. Going by their advertising you would hardly know it aired. FOX plans to put some "marketing muscle" behind the show and see if that helps push ratings beyond what they were during the last few years at ABC. Who knows if it will help, but I think it's definitely worth a shot.

[Yeah No]

On 5/24/2017 at 12:05 PM, Mabinogia said:

I never understood the reasoning behind hiring him for the show. Like you said, he couldn't have been cheap, so what was the point? Is he really able to bring in a lot of viewers? Is he still relevant enough to bring people to watch? Personally, he drove me away. It was total stunt casting and I was too aware that I was watching Jay Leno not whoever his character was meant to be.

I know this is an old post and I've never even watched this show, but I think the reason Jay was hired was because he and Tim are buds.  Tim's been on Jay's car show at least twice and they seem pretty tight.  I don't think it was anything more than that.  Obviously, from what I'm reading,  he wasn't hired because he really fit into the cast.  It's nice to hear the show is coming back, though.  I never thought it deserved cancellation.

[readster]

10 hours ago, Jimbo said:

One article I read made a valid point--ABC didn't advertise this show at all. Going by their advertising you would hardly know it aired. FOX plans to put some "marketing muscle" behind the show and see if that helps push ratings beyond what they were during the last few years at ABC. Who knows if it will help, but I think it's definitely worth a shot.

I completely agree, if you can't market something, then how do people know it is there? I mean, despite the abs-mil ratings of Alex Inc. they were pushing that as much as they could. LMS, they basically just let it fade off into nothing. I think Nancy Travis said it perfect after they cancelled the show: "If they would have just promoted us, or not focused so much on Mike vs Ryan. I think we would have been on longer." 

[readster]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know this is an old post and I've never even watched this show, but I think the reason Jay was hired was because he and Tim are buds.  Tim's been on Jay's car show at least twice and they seem pretty tight.  I don't think it was anything more than that.  Obviously, from what I'm reading,  he wasn't hired because he really fit into the cast.  It's nice to hear the show is coming back, though.  I never thought it deserved cancellation.

Yeah, it was more over that they were friends. However, Jay's first appearance made the most sense. Except for showing Eve there was more to life than upset you: "Didn't get into the school of your choice." Both Jay in real life and his character didn't go to school and it made them get down to focusing on what was important to be successful in life. However, the entire: "Jay and Chuck feuding" came across as horrible and the fact it was the finale episode. Critics even said: "What was the point of that even if they didn't know they were going to get canceled." I have nothing against Jay Leno at all, still find the man funny, but if you are going to use him, make it relevant to the story. Out of his 4 appearances, only 2 made sense. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Focus the show back to the elements that made season 1 so good.  The three daughters and their relationships with one another plus with their parents... plus keeping the politics to a minimum (balance is key).

[Froippi]

They surely are not considering recast for Eve and Mandy that be awful 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Froippi

[readster]

3 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Focus the show back to the elements that made season 1 so good.  The three daughters and their relationships with one another plus with their parents... plus keeping the politics to a minimum (balance is key).

That's exactly it and at this point, why should Mike be angry at things now? He got what he wanted? A Republican president who hates everything from the previous administration. Even though Tim Allen has now said he regrets some things he thought about Trump. Hence a clue for the writers, to drop Mike vs Ryan when it comes to politics and Vanessa always siding with Ryan, no matter how half-ass his ideas were.

[JAYJAY1979]

14 hours ago, readster said:

That's exactly it and at this point, why should Mike be angry at things now? He got what he wanted? A Republican president who hates everything from the previous administration. Even though Tim Allen has now said he regrets some things he thought about Trump. Hence a clue for the writers, to drop Mike vs Ryan when it comes to politics and Vanessa always siding with Ryan, no matter how half-ass his ideas were.

Can we get rid of Ryan....not leave kristen..but exist off screen?

The second he joined in the 2nd season along with aging the baby up was when I started to not like the show.  Also dumbing down Vanessa starting the second season was also the start of the decline in quality of the show.  I think the show wanted to play up the whimsical tone Nancy travis naturally shows as well as her ability to do physical comedy.  They used that to good effect in season 1 and maintained the characters intelligence, too.

[readster]

3 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Can we get rid of Ryan....not leave kristen..but exist off screen?

The second he joined in the 2nd season along with aging the baby up was when I started to not like the show.  Also dumbing down Vanessa starting the second season was also the start of the decline in quality of the show.  I think the show wanted to play up the whimsical tone Nancy travis naturally shows as well as her ability to do physical comedy.  They used that to good effect in season 1 and maintained the characters intelligence, too.

Masterson is signed to return, though he said they are making him grow his beard back and he is not a fan of the beard (because you know Ryan is a new age hippy). I got why they wanted to play up Vanessa, but they went so far. I mean even how she tried to be "racially aware" came off like some woman out of 1977, who didn't know how to talk to "black people". Plus, the entire part of why she quit her job (including erasing the effect it was Ryan's idea) and then she was laid off from her job at the school, but could keep on working because Chuck's wife: "couldn't bare to tell her." Yet she was walking in, teaching a class and getting paid? Umm... what? Then how she kept always taking Ryan's side and first it was: "He's out grandson's father." Then later it was: "He's a teacher too." I was like: "How did you ever get into graduate school? You are an airhead."Also, I hated how Mike kept treating Vanessa by season 3. She would have an idea and Mike had to constantly try to undermine her or try to turn her thing into his. When Vanessa finally called him out on it after the She-Shed episode. Mike's answer was basically: "I'm a guy and I make more money." I would have divorced his ass after that. 

[CaptainCranky]

Not sure I'm in the mood to watch this on FOX. Frankly after Season 1 I was a hit and miss fan. Loved the original Kristen, don't like the new one, have no use for Ryan but love the kid. As for Mike and Vanessa that male chauvinist side of Mike got old.  As for Vanessa teaching school, please. As for Eve and Mandy love those characters but Mandy being married to Kyle that wouldn't happen in real life. They continued to make Kyle a buffoon and that got old. Love the Ed character.

Overall for me I watch some of the reruns now that they are on the Hallmark Channel and WGN.

[paulvdb]

‘Last Man Standing’: Kevin Abbott Back As Showrunner Of Revival On Fox, Joined By Other Longtime ‘LMS’ Exec Producers

Quote

Kevin Abbott, who served as an executive producer on the original series for most of its six seasons on ABC, with stints as showrunner in Season 1 and the second half of Season 6, is back as executive producer/showrunner for Season 7. He will be joined by three other veteran Last Man Standing writer/executive producers: Matt Berry — who also served as showrunner on the original — Kevin Hench and Ed Yeager.

Abbott, Berry, Hench and Yeager will executive produce alongside returning Last Man Standing exec producers Allen, Becky Clements, Marty Adelstein, Shawn Levy and Allen’s managers Richard Baker and Rick Messina.

 

[readster]

Let's hope he brings back much of what made season 1 great and a lot of the "less Ryan and Kristin" from season 6. However, no more type casting with Jay Leno and have the writers, actually talk to each other so they don't just throw something away that happened 2 episodes prior. Please, Mandy is the air head not Vanessa, she didn't get a PhD from a mail in coupon. Come on. 

[readster]

I thought I start a topic on what we are hoping to see in the revival for Last Man Standing with the following discussions:

1. What are you looking forward to in the revival?

2. What are you hoping they leave buried from the shows run on ABC?

3. Where do you hope the series will go?

4. Is putting it back on Friday nights a good move by Fox?

 

  Remember, general discussion, no politics or Tim Allen's personal conservative thinking. 

[Gam2]

I really liked the actors/actresses who portrayed Mike, Vanessa, Mandy, Eve, Kyle, Ed. I couldn’t stand the actor who played the role of Ryan and especially the actress who played Kris. I didn’t like her “acting”, her shaved head, her braided hair wrapped around her head, her clothing, her shoes or in general, how she was dressed. I also didn’t agree with her politics or babying her son but mostly I was turned off by all of the other stuff. 

[readster]

21 hours ago, Gam2 said:

I really liked the actors/actresses who portrayed Mike, Vanessa, Mandy, Eve, Kyle, Ed. I couldn’t stand the actor who played the role of Ryan and especially the actress who played Kris. I didn’t like her “acting”, her shaved head, her braided hair wrapped around her head, her clothing, her shoes or in general, how she was dressed. I also didn’t agree with her politics or babying her son but mostly I was turned off by all of the other stuff. 

Kristin and Ryan have been just a mess since season 2. They not only changed actors, but changed their personalities and stances in reality. Because they are suppose to be: "Modern Parents" when it just don't work. I think many people who are happy with the show said they could ditch the three of them and no one could have a problem. However, they just make it so Mike and Ryan just constantly argue about things and they tend to be very stupid things. I would like to see Vanessa getting a brain again and seeing Eve on active duty from the air force, but has gotten a nice bit in life. I also hope that Kyle and Mandy have their house built, but they really need to give Mike some better motivation. He came off the last two years: "Get off my damn lawn, you damn kids!" 

[readster]

Last Man Standing Revival at Fox: Which Cast Members Are Returning?

 

So, Mandy and Eve will only be reoccurring. At least with Eve they have an excuse with her being in the air force. However, that could be glaring with Mandy, especially with Kyle being around all the time and Chuck minus Nancy again. As for Boyd, unless they recast him or have sent him to boarding school. That would be very glaring, since Boyd has been the main focus on why Mike tolerates Ryan and the fact that Vanessa and Kristin always give him an excuse to act like an asshole because of Boyd. 

[ae2]

Bummer about Mandy and Eve.

Looks like Kaitlyn Dever (Eve) has 4 movies completed / post-production right now, as well as 3 roles last year. They all sound pretty generic to me, but 1 starred Steve Carell and another Hugh Jackman. She also has a limited-series Netflix show in the works. She's keeping busy!

Molly Ephraim (Mandy) is in the Hugh Jackman movie with Kaitlyn, and had recurring roles in two shows last year. There doesn't seem to be as many other projects stopping her from joining the cast. (At least according to IMDB.)

[readster]

53 minutes ago, ae2 said:

Bummer about Mandy and Eve.

Looks like Kaitlyn Dever (Eve) has 4 movies completed / post-production right now, as well as 3 roles last year. They all sound pretty generic to me, but 1 starred Steve Carell and another Hugh Jackman. She also has a limited-series Netflix show in the works. She's keeping busy!

Molly Ephraim (Mandy) is in the Hugh Jackman movie with Kaitlyn, and had recurring roles in two shows last year. There doesn't seem to be as many other projects stopping her from joining the cast. (At least according to IMDB.)

How true and I think Molly might be hesitant since not only was the series will be coming back a year and a half after being cancelled. It is at the same time slot on Fox. While Tim Allen might be happy, Fox is really, really taking a gamble on the time slot. Another thing is the show is called: "Last Man Standing" because it dealt with a character who was living with all women, trying to understand and succeed personally, when he was successful career wise. However, by season 4, Mike didn't have to really worry about that much. Sure Mandy was at home and Eve was focused on Westpoint. However, it turned into: "Mike is angry even though he has a successful life inside and outside the house, but he wants to control everything." It didn't make sense. He threw his salary in Vanessa's face since season 3, which made little sense. He always wanted to pick a fight with Ryan and vice versa because something was always "wrong" with their views. Most of the time, it was Ryan being super dumbass. His conflict with Chuck was forced many times and they both became racist several times.

   Something the show has to deal with is having Chuck being conflicted do to work only. Chuck is security and feels he has Outdoor Man's best interest. While Mike, who is the marketing and business director and co-owner. They both have ODM best interest at heart, but conflict because they have different visions. That's what it needs to be about. As for still having Ryan and Kristin in the picture (at this point the actor playing Boyd is out). Then outside it's Mike and Vanessa's daughter, what is the point of having the characters around? To do more straw man stories between Mike and Ryan thinking it's Archie Bunker? Because the ratings proved those were episode people checked out of and why we saw less Ryan in the last 2 seasons. IF they really want to go a great place with the stories, then how about Mike and Vanessa being empty nesters. Many couples say: "Let's see how we do without the kids being a barrier." Many couples get like that, they have successful home lives. However, when the kids are go it's: "Now what?" 

Edited June 26, 2018 by readster

[paulvdb]

Fox announces fall premiere dates:

Quote

Friday, Sept. 28
8:00-8:30 PM LAST MAN STANDING (Network Premiere)

[WildFlower87]

BREAKING: Last Man Standing Recasting Molly Ephraim (Mandy) and Flynn Morrison (Boyd)
https://www.thewrap.com/last-man-standing-fox-recast-molly-ephraim-flynn-morrison-roles/

[WritinMan]

1 hour ago, WildFlower87 said:

BREAKING: Last Man Standing Recasting Molly Ephraim (Mandy) and Flynn Morrison (Boyd)
https://www.thewrap.com/last-man-standing-fox-recast-molly-ephraim-flynn-morrison-roles/

That's too bad. Ephraim's character was easily the funniest of the three daughters and she did a great job playing the part. I think it will hurt the show.

Don't care about the kid, though. Easily replaceable.

[Mabinogia]

Towards the end Mandy, Eve and Chuck were the only characters I really liked anymore, and that was in large part because of the actors. I really have no interest in watching this now. 

[Neiman]

I never watched the show during its run--binge watched all the episodes last summer on Hulu.  Mandy was one of my favorite characters, so it is disappointing to see today's headline about this actor not returning.  The last couple of seasons I found Eve, the oldest sister, and the mom to be really annoying and the writing fairly stale and predictable, so I hope they can come up with better lines for them.  I wasn't crazy about the grandson either, so don't mind them recasting that roll--I recall they've already had two different actors playing that part, and I preferred the first one.  I also liked the first actress who played the oldest daughter the best--maybe they could get her to play Mandy now, but I guess she'd turn them down if offered given how she was suddenly written out the first time around.