Friends - General Discussion

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

It makes me wonder which plot they wrote first.  The cheesecake plot could have been inserted in any episode.   The funniest part for me was Joey pulling a fork out of his pocket and joining them. 

"So...what are we havin'?"

[Nellise]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Well, the episode was called "The One with All The Cheesecakes", so wouldn't that make it the A story?

I like that episode since it's one of the few that have Chandler and Rachel paired so it feels a bit different.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Nellise said:

I like that episode since it's one of the few that have Chandler and Rachel paired so it feels a bit different.

I'm going to preface this by saying that I understand that these are fictional characters and they are not actually doing anything while not on-screen.

I feel like Rachel and Chandler spent a lot of time together off-screen.  In the episode where Rachel pretends to smoke, Chandler shows up to take her to lunch. He meets Joanna because he walked her back to the office after having lunch.  They seemed to go to lunch together often. When Janice showed up before he had to move to Yemen they were getting manicures together.

[mojoween]

Was the one with all the cheesecakes the one where Rachel told Joey one was made with tofu so they didn’t have to share?

If the show wanted us to believe that Ethan (RIP) was a high-school senior, keeping him in a shirt probably would have been best.

Edited December 5, 2022 by mojoween

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Sometimes the episode titles didn't end up being what people remember them for.  The One with the Embyros I remember as the One with the Contest for the apartment.  

I still believe the cheesecakes for that episode was the A story.

1 hour ago, Nellise said:

I like that episode since it's one of the few that have Chandler and Rachel paired so it feels a bit different.

I like anytime they are paired up too.  After reading Matthew's book, I can't help but wonder if Jennifer had an understandable issue with him, because the plots with just the two of them were so rare, they could probably be counted on one hand.

10 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'm going to preface this by saying that I understand that these are fictional characters and they are not actually doing anything while not on-screen.

I feel like Rachel and Chandler spent a lot of time together off-screen.  In the episode where Rachel pretends to smoke, Chandler shows up to take her to lunch. He meets Joanna because he walked her back to the office after having lunch.  They seemed to go to lunch together often. When Janice showed up before he had to move to Yemen they were getting manicures together.

Another cute joke is this:

[Bort]

Here’s a continuity error that always bugs me: Ross picks up Fluffy Meowington’s old cat toys but in the next episode, Monica says she’s allergic to cats.

[mojoween]

Watching Jill put her shopping bags all over the couch and chair, and Rachel stand by the chair at the other end of the table while Ross pulls the stuff out of the bags, makes me wonder if other patrons who are trying to also be regulars at Central Perk really hated those Friends.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 12/5/2022 at 11:06 AM, tracyscott76 said:

Had to go to Wikipedia to check it out, but the other plots were Monica being peeved that Ross got invited to their cousin's wedding but she didn't, only to find out the cousin was marrying an ex of Monica's; and Phoebe running into David when she's supposed to be getting together with Joey, only she had already bawled out Joey for cancelling on her earlier.

So the title certainly makes the cheesecakes the A plot (and it's the best/funniest one in my opinion), but the Phoebe plot would seem to be the only one with any long-term implications or tie-in to the overall story of the series. 

Yeah, the Phoebe plot was supposed to be the A-plot. It was another instance where we're supposed to sympathize with Phoebe even though she's clearly in the wrong. She gives Joey this whole speech about not cancelling on friends and then she goes behind Joey's back so she can see David. At least Joey left a note. Phoebe was trying to end the dinner early without any reason as to why. I like how Joey not only tries to slow the dinner down after he finds out the truth, but he calls Phoebe out on her hypocrisy. It might be the one time in the whole series that Phoebe's held accountable for something, even if it's just for a short time. 

I was watching TOW Joey Dates Rachel last night and when Joey asked Rachel which of their friends she would punch, I was thinking, "All of them." They were all irritating at some point in the series. 

[Bort]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Yeah, the Phoebe plot was supposed to be the A-plot. It was another instance where we're supposed to sympathize with Phoebe even though she's clearly in the wrong. She gives Joey this whole speech about not cancelling on friends and then she goes behind Joey's back so she can see David.

Yeah, but I feel like there’s a difference between Joey cancelling a dinner for a cheap slampiece and Phoebe cancelling for an ex that she only broke up with because he moved to Minsk.

[WendyCR72]

13 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Yeah, but I feel like there’s a difference between Joey cancelling a dinner for a cheap slampiece and Phoebe cancelling for an ex that she only broke up with because he moved to Minsk.

In theory, I agree. But Phoebe made such a stink about Joey blowing her off that I sort of sided with Joey here.

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Yeah, but I feel like there’s a difference between Joey cancelling a dinner for a cheap slampiece and Phoebe cancelling for an ex that she only broke up with because he moved to Minsk.

Yep.  Joey could have asked that girl out for any other night, but he chose that night when he had plans with Phoebe.  David was only in town for tha one day (or was there longer and only popped in to see Phoebe that day, really making the whole thing his fault) and thus she couldn't do that any other time.  That is a totally different situation.  

[Bort]

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yep.  Joey could have asked that girl out for any other night, but he chose that night when he had plans with Phoebe.  David was only in town for tha one day (or was there longer and only popped in to see Phoebe that day, really making the whole thing his fault) and thus she couldn't do that any other time.  That is a totally different situation.  

Exactly. Phoebe’s was meaningful and she couldn’t reschedule David. Joey’s was meaningless and he could’ve made that date any other night.

[princelina]

Phoebe's problem was that she didn't tell him - even if you don't blow off friends as a rule, you get grace for special circumstances!  That's why those types of storylines bug me - because they're so obvious.  (Just like - you tell Emily that Rachel is your sister's roommate and you will have to see her at group events, but promise not to do things with her alone.  You DON'T wonder and wonder what to do about this unsolvable dilemma, whilst at the same time going to the movies three times a week alone with Rachel.)

[Mr. Meatball Man]

5 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Yeah, but I feel like there’s a difference between Joey cancelling a dinner for a cheap slampiece and Phoebe cancelling for an ex that she only broke up with because he moved to Minsk.

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yep.  Joey could have asked that girl out for any other night, but he chose that night when he had plans with Phoebe.  David was only in town for tha one day (or was there longer and only popped in to see Phoebe that day, really making the whole thing his fault) and thus she couldn't do that any other time.  That is a totally different situation.  

Again, my problem with that storyline was they had Phoebe go behind Joey's back to make this happen. She could have just told Joey that David was back in town for one more night and this was her only chance to see him. Joey would have understood that and let her go on the date with no issues. He was a firm believer of the rule that you can cancel on your friends if there's a chance for sex. Instead, she doesn't let Joey know what's going on and tries to speed up the dinner so she can see David while keeping the moral high ground. Right after her whole "you don't cancel on your friends" speech. If I was Joey, I would have given her a hard time, too.

@princelina is right. Many of these storylines wouldn't happen if the characters just communicated like human beings. Phoebe has a chance to reconnect with David? Just tell Joey before the dinner that they need to reschedule. Ross doesn't want to be divorced three times? Get the annulment, then tell Rachel that he's falling for her again. Ross is mad at Joey for the fake proposal? Tell Rachel you want to be with her again so you don't end up hiding phone messages from guys she meets at bars, or start crying like a little bitch when she kisses someone from her work. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Mr. Meatball Man

[Danny Franks]

There are some storylines that are just annoying, because the writers fail to write certain characters like real humans, where them acting like real humans would mean the storyline wouldn't work.

TOW The Girl Who Hits Joey has the storyline where Ross makes enemies of everyone in his building because he won't throw in $100 for the retiring handyman. There isn't a rational person in the world who would expect him to pay that much when he'd just moved into the building, so that's one major fail. The guy who gets snippy with him is a dickhead.

But the second major fail is that the writers try to present it as Ross being unreasonable and socially awkward when he's anything but. He's absolutely in the right to say he won't contribute for a man he has never met.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Danny Franks

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

There are some storylines that are just annoying, because the writers fail to write certain characters like real humans, where them acting like real humans would mean the storyline wouldn't work.

TOW The Girl Who Hits Joey has the storyline where Ross makes enemies of everyone in his building because he won't throw in $100 for the retiring handyman. There isn't a rational person in the world who would expect him to pay that much when he'd just moved into the building, so that's one major fail. The guy who gets snippy with him is a dickhead.

But the second major fail is that the writers try to present it as Ross being unreasonable and socially awkward when he's anything but. He's absolutely in the right to say he won't contribute for a man he has never met.

The upside to that whole stupid situation is the callback in a later episode when Ross meets a neighbor who agrees that he was in the right, and they end up meeting for a date - this is the same woman that Joey has been seeing from across the street and he's trying to find her apartment by counting windows, but keeps counting wrong and ending up at Ross' apartment. Then he finally gets it right, but Ross is at the woman's apartment for their date and answers the door when Joey knocks.

"Did you move???"

"Yes. I lived with you guys for awhile, and then I moved to this building."

*Joey stares confusedly*

"I'm Ross!"

😆

[Mr. Meatball Man]

18 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

There are some storylines that are just annoying, because the writers fail to write certain characters like real humans, where them acting like real humans would mean the storyline wouldn't work.

TOW The Girl Who Hits Joey has the storyline where Ross makes enemies of everyone in his building because he won't throw in $100 for the retiring handyman. There isn't a rational person in the world who would expect him to pay that much when he'd just moved into the building, so that's one major fail. The guy who gets snippy with him is a dickhead.

But the second major fail is that the writers try to present it as Ross being unreasonable and socially awkward when he's anything but. He's absolutely in the right to say he won't contribute for a man he has never met.

That plot reminds me of Seinfeld for some reason. I could see George being asked to contribute money to the handyman and refusing to do it. I don't know if they would handle it differently than Friends did. Also, that girl believing Ross was in the right is almost like the show itself acknowledging that Ross was in the right. 

One storyline I always hated was TOW Phoebe's Wedding. Monica was awful in that episode, arguably her worst performance in the whole series. Phoebe fires her as the maid of honor which was deserved, and then when things go wrong, Phoebe is forced to get Monica back. I hate how Monica never apologizes or learns her lesson. All she does is be snarky and watch everything go wrong with a smile on her face. Then it's framed like Phoebe has to bend the knee and make things right, because only Monica can save the day. I always hate it when TV shows try to make me feel sympathy for the person who's clearly in the wrong. 

Beyond that, there's the whole "let's have a wedding in the freezing cold in the middle of a blizzard" idea. That's some 80s sitcom shit. Nobody is going to risk their lives watching two people get married in a blizzard. Why not......I don't know.....have the wedding inside? Central Perk was right there. Or in Monica's apartment? This episode expects me to buy a lot when I only have fifty cents in my pocket. 

If it wasn't for Ross and Chandler competing to be in the wedding, this could end up being the worst episode in the series. The fact that it's sandwiched between two of the worst episodes in the series doesn't help, either.

[princelina]

58 minutes ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

One storyline I always hated was TOW Phoebe's Wedding. Monica was awful in that episode, arguably her worst performance in the whole series. Phoebe fires her as the maid of honor which was deserved, and then when things go wrong, Phoebe is forced to get Monica back. I hate how Monica never apologizes or learns her lesson. All she does is be snarky and watch everything go wrong with a smile on her face. Then it's framed like Phoebe has to bend the knee and make things right, because only Monica can save the day.

Which leads me to what I hated which was the one with Monica's shower, along with the one with the videotape where Rachel was in charge of filling and mailing the invitations.  With all that we know about Monica, she just left her wedding shower and invitation mailings in Rachel's and Phoebe's hands?  I'm nowhere near Monica's level of control freak and I would never have done that!!!

(Other than that the videotape is one of my favorites 😃)

[Crs97]

We went from Rachel saving things for Monica’s wedding to being shocked that she should host a shower, and we are supposed to think Monica didn’t want any say in addressing and stuffing the invitations?!?  I see you, plot contrivances!

[mojoween]

Speaking of contrived, Rachel’s “I’M GOING TO A SOAP OPERA ROOFTOP PARTY?!?” shrieking and clapping and jumping up and down was so dumb.  Although “professor? or detective” will always make me laugh, as does Charlie’s wave at Joey when he flashes the room.

[Danny Franks]

57 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Speaking of contrived, Rachel’s “I’M GOING TO A SOAP OPERA ROOFTOP PARTY?!?” shrieking and clapping and jumping up and down was so dumb.  Although “professor? or detective” will always make me laugh, as does Charlie’s wave at Joey when he flashes the room.

I don't know, Rachel was always beside herself when it came to the soap opera stuff - visiting Joey on-set, meeting Susan Sarandon, going to the Soapies and meeting the actress who Joey collected the award for. She was a geek for that sort of stuff.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't know, Rachel was always beside herself when it came to the soap opera stuff - visiting Joey on-set, meeting Susan Sarandon, going to the Soapies and meeting the actress who Joey collected the award for. She was a geek for that sort of stuff.

Maybe since JA's dad was a soap actor, maybe she and/or the writers had Rachel be so enthusiastic as a sort of wink to that. Cute.

[Bort]

The only problem is that Rachel didn’t act that way during Joey's first turn as Drake. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I thought she kind of did.  Chandler was having a romantic crisis and Rachel said "Can we watch Joey on Days now" completely ignoring him.  Am I the only one who remembers that?   I thought Rachel always paid attention to his DOOL stuff.

And don't they always bother him about his storylines?  But he either says he doesn't know what happens next or doesn't care.

Season 2, episode 18:

Quote

[Scene: Monica and Rachel's apartment. Everyone except Ross is there watching Days of Our Lives.]

AMBER: Oh Drake.
DR. RAMORAY: I'm sorry Amber. It's just like Brad to have to have the last word.

[Ross enters]

ROSS: I'm sorry I'm late, what happened?
MONICA: We, we just wanna see the end.
AMBER: I want you Drake.
DR. RAMORAY: I know you do but you and I can never be together that way.
AMBER: What?
DR. RAMORAY: There's something I never told you Amber. I'm actually your half- brother.

[Everyone gasps. The show ends.]

RACHEL: So what happens next?
JOEY: Well, I get the medical award for separating the siamese twins. Then Amber and I go to Venezuela to meet our other half-brother, Ramone. And that's where I find the world's biggest emerald. It's really big but it's cursed.

Quote

RACHEL: Chandler honey, I'm sorry. Ok, can we watch Joey's show now please?
[they turn on the TV] ROSS: Yeah.
MONICA: Wait, he's not here yet.
RACHEL: So, he's on the show, he knows what happens.
ROSS: Yeah.
MONICA: Alright.
CHANDLER: Oh, I'm fine about my problem now, by the way.
RACHEL: Oh good.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[ljenkins782]

On 11/22/2022 at 1:12 PM, Crs97 said:

There was just enough media coverage at the time (e.g., Matthew being in the hospital and then crashing his car the day he was released) that my senses were heightened.  I noticed his weight fluctuations through the seasons, but hoped his explanations were the correct ones.

I decided to read the book and am not quite halfway through.  It seems to me like he still has a lot of anger; it must be a sad life for him, but I do appreciate that he isn't sugar-coating his issues and recovery for anyone else trying to handle their own.

Yeah, the weight fluctuations were very noticeable and though I wasn't paying super attention to news, I think enough was being speculated about it that you could guess.

I haven't read the book but have seen MP doing interviews about it and it isn't a good look. For his purported goal of helping others, there was an awful lot of focus on the charmed elements of his life. I'm not sure if his intent was to prove the point that anyone can suffer from addiction, but to me, it came across as way more demoralizing the way it was framed. Like, Diane Sawyer harping on how his parents were at the foot of his bed after catastrophic health problems and the acknowledgement that so many people cared about him. I'm just wondering how that lands with someone who has no one at all and who definitely doesn't have Friends money to spend on getting help. 

And the fact that he's still blaming dental issues for his slurred speech...I don't know. I would assume there was a stroke somewhere along the way, the slurring has been going on too long. 

Quote

I remember a lot of people writing off Robert Downey Jr but he got clean and turned his life around.  I hope Matthew Perry can do that.  

He did, but he was far younger and had much more career/life ahead of him, I'm not sure Matthew has enough incentive at this point. He was on top of the world at a young age and he was using all through that time. He has enough money to never work again, I just don't have confidence that he has enough pulling him toward sobriety to really commit to it. 

Quote

Back to the show, one of my favorite Ross moments is his movements when he plays the new answering machine outgoing message for Chandler and Joey.  David has very specific physical comedy moments that always make me laugh.

Yeah, there's a lot about the character of Ross that irks me, but David Schwimmer does physical comedy really well. And everything about his relationship with Monica is funny to me, Courteney and David played so well off each other in that context. 

[Bort]

How exactly does Ross manage to break the brown bird girl’s leg? He was only up three steps from the landing and she hadn’t gone up at all yet when he accidentally hit her with his racket. Is her leg made of pasta?

[Ms Blue Jay]

Mae Whitman! :) 

[WearyTraveler]

11 hours ago, kariyaki said:

How exactly does Ross manage to break the brown bird girl’s leg? He was only up three steps from the landing and she hadn’t gone up at all yet when he accidentally hit her with his racket. Is her leg made of pasta?

I laughed, but... The first time I broke a bone I was in my thirties. Never had I ever broken a bone before, even though I was a very active child. Crashed my bike once and went flying over the handlebars, flipped in midair and everything, nothing broke. Fell from a tree branch into a cactus (I kid you not) and the only injury was getting the needles into my skin (very painful, that one). Got stung by a scorpion and almost died because the hospital I was taken to didn't have the right antidote for it, and it had to be rushed from my country's equivalent of the CDC.... I can go on, but I think I made the point.

Anyway, you know how I broke a bone in my thirties? I was walking out of my bedroom and my naked foot hit the hard plastic wheel of my laptop's carry case. Fractured my pinkie toe and the one next to it. All it takes is for a fall or incident to happen just so, at the right angle and boom! Broken bones 😂

Edited December 24, 2022 by WearyTraveler

[Mr. Meatball Man]

Something I always thought about: Is the storyline with Ross needing to get to class on the other side of town realistic? I feel like this was all for comedy because I don't believe a university would make things that inconvenient for a professor. Especially since they're assuring that he's going to be late every time he goes there. I never went to a school the size of NYU, so I don't know how true to life this is.

[Bort]

I never understood why a bicycle wasn’t Ross’s ultimate solution. Rollerblades? Really? That was most viable option? And he couldn’t take 30 seconds to change out of them?

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Something I always thought about: Is the storyline with Ross needing to get to class on the other side of town realistic? I feel like this was all for comedy because I don't believe a university would make things that inconvenient for a professor. Especially since they're assuring that he's going to be late every time he goes there. I never went to a school the size of NYU, so I don't know how true to life this is.

I went to a very large university that spanned a few really large blocks in the big city, so for STUDENTS, it was realistic that we'd maybe have to do a 30 minute walk to the next class.  More than that though "all the way across town" that's insane!!!  Also, for professors you would think the school would ensure that that never happens.  Students have to travel kinda far across a big campus from class to class, but professors?  That part is very eye-rolly. 

I Googled NYU campus and it's 230 acres.

I Googled my school and it's about 70% that size.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Mr. Meatball Man]

Looking at the season four Christmas episode and......is Monica written out of character? She has to be. Getting bullied by her own employees, admitting that she doesn't like confrontation? If this was any other episode, she would have shot all of those employees dead for even looking at her wrong. 

I know Phoebe was written to be softer in the earlier seasons, but Monica's always been a control freak that doesn't let anyone walk all over her. An episode about Monica learning to assert herself is like an episode about Joey learning how to talk to women. 🤣

[Crs97]

I thought Monica was a control freak among her friends, but not necessarily otherwise.  She didn’t want to turn in the woman who stole her identity.  She couldn’t handle Rachel’s mom being angry with her.  I thought she felt guilty that she cost the head chef, who was related to most of her staff, his job and that’s why she was struggling with the rest of them.

[Bort]

Monica was more passive aggressive with her control freak stuff. “I’m sorry I left lipstick marks on the phone… oh, then it must’ve been you.” Her relationship with her mother was prime example of how and why she’s not good at upfront confrontation. Unless it’s against Ross.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

@Crs97 @kariyaki You both make some really good points. Monica always showed fear and vulnerability when she was around older people (her parents, Rachel's mom). Plus, there was that episode in season four where her and Phoebe weren't being paid for the catering and she didn't want to say anything. I guess she's never felt confidence around strangers or her elders.

[mojoween]

While waiting exactly 30 seconds to reset my dumb DVR, it occurred to me that the tanning guy told Ross to count to five.  He didn’t say to wait five seconds, so counting Mississippily was too much.  Which Ross found out.

He got what he deserved the second time though when he cut off the lady so didn’t know which way to face.

[Bort]

Seems to me that if one is going to go through the trouble of getting a spray tan, why wear great big baggy shorts? 

[Nellise]

I'd rather see that than him in something like Chandler's Speedo.

[juno]

I started binging Friends for the first time since it ended. It was great until the unrelenting shipping of Ross and Rachel. I didn't realize that the shipping basically takes over the show. It is completely unwatchable even though I am absolutely marveling at the talent of Matt Perry and Matt LeBlanc, who are so naturally funny and talented.

[andidante]

9 hours ago, juno said:

I started binging Friends for the first time since it ended. It was great until the unrelenting shipping of Ross and Rachel. I didn't realize that the shipping basically takes over the show. It is completely unwatchable even though I am absolutely marveling at the talent of Matt Perry and Matt LeBlanc, who are so naturally funny and talented.

I got so tired of the Ross and Rachel show! They were such a toxic couple to me. I loved Matthew Perry and did like Chandler and Monica together. 

[Danny Franks]

16 hours ago, juno said:

I started binging Friends for the first time since it ended. It was great until the unrelenting shipping of Ross and Rachel. I didn't realize that the shipping basically takes over the show. It is completely unwatchable even though I am absolutely marveling at the talent of Matt Perry and Matt LeBlanc, who are so naturally funny and talented.

The annoying thing is, later seasons of the show made it clear how poor a pairing Ross and Rachel were.

I'm just watching TOW Joey Dates Rachel, and there's the scene where Ross talks about his monthly newsletter, "The Gellar Yeller" and Rachel's reaction is... whatever the absolute opposite of being attracted to someone is.

Ross just developed in a way that took him away from Rachel, after they split - he became absurd and goofy, the comedic foil of the show. He was not a romantic lead. That played to Schwimmer's strengths too, as he was by far the best physical comedian in the cast.

Both characters were at their best apart, and at their worst together.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Danny Franks

[Avabelle]

I don’t know while I agree that fundamentally Ross and Rachel were not compatible I always bought the attraction. There’s a thin line between love and hate so I always felt even when they bickered in later seasons they were only a step away from ripping each other’s clothes off. 
 

Long term though… car crash.

[partofme]

I never understood why Ross and Rachel would ever be a couple.  Yes he had a crush on her in high school, but that's all it was, a crush.  It is very clear that Ross never saw Rachel as a person, an individual with her own interests but as a prize to win, to show he's not the loser geek anymore and can get the popular girl.  And I never bought that Rachel would be attracted to Ross or view him as anything more than a pity date at best.  It would have been more realistic for him to tell her he liked her and to have her let him down easy.  And it was clear they were toxic together.  Both are much better and more enjoyable to watch when dating other people. 

[Danny Franks]

22 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

I don’t know while I agree that fundamentally Ross and Rachel were not compatible I always bought the attraction. There’s a thin line between love and hate so I always felt even when they bickered in later seasons they were only a step away from ripping each other’s clothes off. 
 

Long term though… car crash.

I get Ross's attraction to Rachel, even if he did often seem to think she was an idiot. Ross could be as shallow as anyone, after all.

Definitely a car crash, though. Because they seemed to have such contempt for one another at times. In that example I mentioned, and plenty of others, it's not just suppressed attraction but seems to be active dislike of certain characteristics they each have.

16 minutes ago, partofme said:

I never understood why Ross and Rachel would ever be a couple.  Yes he had a crush on her in high school, but that's all it was, a crush.  It is very clear that Ross never saw Rachel as a person, an individual with her own interests but as a prize to win, to show he's not the loser geek anymore and can get the popular girl.  And I never bought that Rachel would be attracted to Ross or view him as anything more than a pity date at best.  It would have been more realistic for him to tell her he liked her and to have her let him down easy.  And it was clear they were toxic together.  Both are much better and more enjoyable to watch when dating other people. 

This goes back to Ross being shallow when it comes to Rachel. He had a crush on her when she was his sister's hot friend, but she was not a nice person then. They make it clear that Rachel was a spoiled, vain princess as a teenager, and that's the girl Ross was crushing on. He never really knew who she was at all. As an adult, that crush comes back and is no deeper than it was before.

Later on, he comes to appreciate her more as she becomes a better person. I can absolutely buy that (his resentment of her building a successful career is a whole other subject), but the person she eventually becomes is not someone who is compatible with the person Ross becomes. The writers were cowards, to jam them back together in the final episode just because a section of the show's fans wanted it.

I always skip the final episode when I rewatch, because that climax just does not work for me at all. Ross and Rachel feels so dated and ill-fitting by season 7, let alone season 10.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Danny Franks

[Bort]

10 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I always skip the final episode when I rewatch, because that climax just does not work for me at all.

I absolutely hate the prom video episode because of how Rachel decides to date Ross after that. Sorry, but him getting his feelings hurt years ago does not negate the degrading list he made about her which is why she’d shot him down the previous time.

[Danny Franks]

6 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I absolutely hate the prom video episode because of how Rachel decides to date Ross after that. Sorry, but him getting his feelings hurt years ago does not negate the degrading list he made about her which is why she’d shot him down the previous time.

Oh yeah, I skip that one too. And I absolutely, unreservedly hate the whole "he's her lobster!" thing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Never mind!  

Edited January 5, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[partofme]

54 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

ax just does not work for me at all. Ross and Rachel feels so dated and ill-fitting by season 7, let alone season 10.

The Chandler/Monica and Chandler/Joey parts are really sweet, but the R/R stuff is barf inducing.  Even if R/R want to be a couple(which I would never support), it would have made more sense for Ross to move rather than have Rachel give up her dream job.

[chitowngirl]

And not once did Ross mention his daughter was moving to Paris and how he’d miss her. He couldn’t move to London with Emily because of Ben, but what about Emma!!

I also found it hard to believe how much Rachel’s mom watched Emma. We know that Rachel had a nanny and was with her long enough to learn Spanish. Mrs. Green watching Emma solo? AND taking her on the plane alone to Paris? I don’t think so

Edited January 5, 2023 by chitowngirl

[Bort]

1 hour ago, partofme said:

Even if R/R want to be a couple(which I would never support), it would have made more sense for Ross to move rather than have Rachel give up her dream job.

Especially since Rachel massively burned her bridges at Ralph Lauren, blew the Gucci interview and then apparently no-showed the Louis Vuitton job? Nobody would’ve hired her after that.

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

I also found it hard to believe how much Rachel’s mom watched Emma. We know that Rachel had a nanny and was with her long enough to learn Spanish. Mrs. Green watching Emma solo? AND taking her on the plane alone to Paris? I don’t think so

Not to mention Ross’s parents. They watched Emma a lot. We never once heard about them watching Ben. In fact, it seemed like when Ben was a baby, Carol and Susan only got a break when Ross had him.