Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[SonofaBiscuit]

The more I look at this, the more I want to laugh

 

 

"This thing is broken!"

Edited October 17, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[Danny Franks]

The more I look at this, the more I want to laugh

 

 

If someone could photoshop a 'bang' flag popping out of the end of the gun, it would be perfect.

 

Laurel Lance. There are no words.

[KirkB]

I've never shot a real gun in my life but if I were going to, especially if it was at someone I thought had killed my sister, I would damn sure at least make sure the thing had bullets in it first.

[Sakura12]

My brother just started teaching me how to use a gun and there is a noticeable weight difference when a gun is loaded and when it's not. I usually shoot a .22, that gun looks like a 9mm which is a heavier gun without bullets. When I was feeling the weight of the guns at the gun store the people working there said the gun is heavier with bullets in it. Which is why I went with the .22. 

 

The weight difference would be felt when you picked it up, especially for someone that's comfortable shooting shotgun like Laurel was shown to be, she should've automatically known the difference between an unloaded gun and a loaded one.  I suppose I can go with she's not thinking clearly from anger so she didn't notice that it felt much lighter.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Sakura12

[Nanrad]

Laurel's too plot driven. Her actions are written as a way to insert her into the plot rather than something that is authentic for who were are supposed to believe her to be. 

 

Why would Laurel take her sister to the hospital? 

Why wouldn't Laurel tell the cops what happened?

Why would Laurel not tell her father what happened?

Why would Laurel know that the gun was empty?

Why would Laurel be in the Foundry and how did she get in there?

Why couldn't she call them?

 

Laurel's not a bad ass--she's just a character that shit happens to and a person who breaks a patient's arm who was already in the hospital for someone trying to kill him. She was someone who was unaffected about a man being killed in front of her. She's a character, who tried to shoot someone who didn't kill her sister, with an unloaded gun. A bad ass character isn't one who abuses power and authority because they can't think clear since they are hellbent on having revenge. You know who I think of when I think of bad ass (female) characters: Dana Scully. Yeah, she could fight, but she knew how to stand up for herself verbally when men and/or authority figures tried to intimidate her. She used her smarts and wits and it wasn't some plot driven thing, but a natural reaction of hers. Then when she kicked ass, it wasn't against people who were innocent of what she accused them of. I understand that Laurel is grief stricken, but a crime is still a crime. When I think of bad ass (female) characters, it's more than assaulting people. 

 

So, that's to say: Laurel's adventures in being a bad ass does nothing for me. Her character is only written in ways to unnaturally force her into plots and she acts in ways that is contradictory to not only most people, but with someone of her background (daughter of a police officer, DA). 

[Sakura12]

I just don't understand why they thought bringing in Sara was a good idea. I know they keep saying that there were others before Arrow and Deathstroke but we never really got to learn much about them, same goes with Brother Blood 1.0 and Vertigo 1.0 and 2.0. With Sara they showed us most the awful life she had that made her into the person we saw, they made her someone we could root for and wanted to root for to succeed. While they floundered about with Laurel, pushed her in the background or took her out of episodes entirely. Their thought process for all of this confuses me, because they gave us no reason to want Laurel to just take her sister's place. They never showed us they were that close before the Gambit and gave them maybe a handful of scenes in the present. 

 

They know most people don't like Laurel (including the media) yet they decided to not make her likeable before handing her the hero title. One that she's not even close to earning. I know a lot of stuff has happened to Laurel and on paper I should I feel bad for her, but I feel no connection to the character. She can lose both her parents, get into a car accident and lose her job and apartment and I'd feel bad for Quentin and Dinah and the car over anything she was going through. If I don't care about the character, I don't care what happens to her. In 2 years they've done nothing to make me care.

 

I have no doubt people will come to accept Laurel as the BC because they have no choice now or they'll love seeing her stunt double kicking ass. But I still don't know how many will like the Laurel the character and not just her hero identity, Unlike Sara, for me CL brought a lot of vulnerability and warmth to Sara and showed me the pain Sara was in because of what she's been through. I fell more in love with Sara from seeing her growth on the island, her interactions with the other characters and struggle for her soul, over her kicking ass, that was just a bonus. CL had 24 episodes to do that. KC has had 48 episodes and hasn't managed it. That's where the problem with Laurel Lance is. 

[ostentatious]

Bringing in Sara AND putting the idea of her as Canary on the table, even.

Sara could have come in as a member of the LoA without the word Canary attached to her. She could've served the exact same purposes without that level of confusion. Sure, Laurel would still be compared negatively, but not so entirely directly.

[Sakura12]

They should've stuck to their original plan and made Sara, Ravenger. Then no one would've had anyone to compare Laurel too. Now Sara's all she'll be compared too. 

[ostentatious]

Agreed. Still would've been the wrong Lance sister who died, but it wouldn't be blamed on their need to give Laurel an identity. Were they trying to sabotage her?

[Morrigan2575]

See but they claim Sara coming back as Canary was their plan from the pilot, or at least something they tossed around. AJK also said that when they brought her back in S2 they debated making her Ravager.

I think the thought process was probably as follows

Writing pilot: it would be totally cool if Bad Sister Sara comes back to life in a later season, she can turn up as "Canary". We'll tie her into Laurel's story and them when she dies this will jump start Laurel to Black Canary.

On paper it's a decent idea, Laurel is a main character in S1, Sara is a ghost. Laurel is the hero's love interest and on paper a heroine. She's out there fighting for the underdog, taking on Corruption and injustice. Im sure they made her a legal aid lawyer instead of a DA (like Rachel Dawes) in S1 so they could tie Laurel to the Hood taking on 1 percenters. Just like in S2 they moved her into the DAs office to (probably) tie Laurel to the Arrow hunting criminals (the relationship they're going with in S3).

I'm sure when they came up with the idea they expected the audience to love Laurel and route for Lauiver. When Sara shows up it throws a wrench in Lauiver and motivates Laurel to become a vigilante. ..thus they get action/drama/angst, etc

However, my guess is that when they time came they debated changing their original plan, probably (IMO) because of the audience/media reaction to Laurel/Lauiver in S1. For whatever reason they decided to proceed with Sara as Canary and thus ended up with a well received and loved character. However, they (for whatever reason) are committed to Laurel as BC and are now taking a risk hoping that they can either with the audience/media over or if they don't it doesn't end up hurting ratings too much.

Of course this is all JMHO.

[wonderwall]

That Katie Cassidy is squarely at fault was never the implication. In this very review there’s mention of problems with how the character is written, both in this episode and last season(her addiction stuff.) We’ve been pretty clear in numerous reviews and roundtables that Laurel’s problems as a character generally have to do will how she is or isn’t integrated into the plot or played off of other characters.

That said, it’s still an actor’s job to do the best they can with the material. Very capable ones can still make even the most terrible writing sing. I do think Cassidy gets an unnecessarily bad rap on the show, because she’s excelled in other roles. But part of that is because, in this case, it’s never felt like she’s gotten a hold of a necessary piece of something quintessentially Laurel, on the page or off. She’s fine moment-to-moment, but as an overarching character, even on the basest level she doesn’t have any differentiating mannerisms or patterns that make Laurel feel like a real human being, much of the time. That’s all I meant by that comment. - Comment Section

 

I found this to be a great analysis of one of the reasons why Laurel doesn't work as a character. 

Edited October 19, 2014 by wonderwall

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I saw two movies this weekend - Dracula and Gone Girl. I preferred Dracula much to my surprise. A friend picked Dracula which I had zero desire to see. Throwing my thoughts under a spoiler in case anyone is interested in seeing the movies.

 

I connected emotionally with the Vlad and his struggles as a father and as a prince. Despite the movie being about a vampire, it held more real life struggles than Gone Girl. I understood the desperation of Vlad as he sought to become the monster necessary to keep his people free and his desire to not be the monster forever. He truly believed his crusade could overcome the thirst.

I found Gone Girl to be ridiculous. At the end I sat there thinking "WTF did I just watch." I suppose we were supposed to feel for Affleck's character because despite his cheating ways he didn't deserve to be framed for murder. However, I felt nothing for either main character. The wife clearly needed an institution, but he needed anger management classes. With a woman less psychotic, his character probably would have been a wife beater. She just beat him to the punch in scaring him into submission.

 

What does this have to do with Laurel you ask?  I'm getting there before the mods blow a gasket.

 

I've heard great things about Gone Girl. However, the writing left me cold as does the writing for Laurel. I couldn't sympathize with Affleck because he had too much dickish behavior to be a true victim. He married the wrong woman, but he wasn't blameless either. He didn't take responsibility for his actions or lack thereof. If the movie had gone an hour longer, I would have expected him to move beyond dickish and into bastard mode. As I sat watching I realized it was a grown up version of Laurel. A character who throws the blame on everyone else. Both characters make mistakes, but feel the catalyst is the responsibility of someone else. They excuse their behavior instead of owning it.  

 

Most of the responsibility is in the writing, but further analysis factors in continuing problems.

 

I went back and rewatched the scene where Laurel is waiting with Sara's body in Verdant.

• As many have stated how did Laurel get the body down there? 
• How long was she going to wait? Oliver, Felicity, and Roy were clearly not in a rush to answer an emergency summons. 
• Only Felicity thought to call a hospital? I get there were three arrows in her, but no one checked for a pulse. If a woman can survive with a fence post in her neck and talk the EMTs through how to get her to the hospital without killing her, someone needs to check for a damn pulse. She's the nurse I want in the ER if anything ever happens to me.
• Why wouldn't Laurel call for an ambulance where Sara was shot? Sure she was in her Canary suit, but if you pull off the top and the shoes, she could have been a girl caught in a mugging. Leather pants aren't solely in the closet of vigilantes.
• On a wardrobe note. Laurel stood around for hours in the those heels waiting for them to come down? If she wore them all day and dragged Sara around in the them, there is no way girl wouldn't kick those puppies off first chance she had. At least Felicity dropped her purse to approach Sara. She didn't leave it hanging from her arm.

 

We get through the major holes in writing and arrive at the acting choices.

• Laurel is standing awkwardly at Sara's head. She isn't really crying. She's standing looking perfectly calm. Like "here's a fern I bought you. Surprise."
• Laurel approaches Oliver and the tears attempt to come. Until then she's acted more unsure of herself like "I know you said you needed space, but I really wanted to see."
• "Ollie, it isn't fair. We just got her back." Maybe I'd believe you didn't think this was fair if you didn't grin like the fat kid who stole the birthday cake from the classroom at the end of last season. You happily shipped her off to a group of assassins so you could have the boy and the jacket. You didn't seem to upset to lose her months ago. Sara didn't have the best track record on objects which are meant to float. She boarded a ship. If her luck had held true, she would have been facing a maelstrom within days of leaving SC. 
• It was odd watching Laurel reach for and then clutch Oliver. It flashed me back to the jacket scene. "Sara died and Oliver is hugging meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. He looks better with meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Our grief will relaunch our loooooooooooooooooooove." 

 

You can't place any of them blame solely on one person. The writer's write (pass the jacket, "Oliver needs you."), the actor brings the scenes to life (*grin like a buffoon), and the director films the scene until it is right (why is the damn smile still in the scene since it is a KC smile and not a LL smile?). Really when it comes to Laurel the blame is a perfect trifecta - poor writing, poor acting choices, and poor direction. It just makes for an overwhelmingly weak spot in an otherwise solid show. 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

How about you all only sit through this post once. It really wasn't that enlightening to be posted twice.

Edited October 19, 2014 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[Nanrad]

I thought the whole, "Ollie, it isn't fair, we just got her back" was such bullshit. Laurel hasn't called Oliver Ollie often and this didn't seem to be the occasion for it either. All that crap with Oliver and Laurel was about establishing their "connection", closeness, and how they used to be best friends when all it established to me was that it's never going to be believable between them. I can't buy it even on a chemistry level.

[fantique]

I just want to say that I don't genuinely believe that KC is a terrible actress. I just get frustrated with her concept of her character. If this was old school Hollywood and TV, she would be fine because it was all about being beautiful, able to cry effectively and portray a "perfect" woman. In this era of TV, we are bored with "perfect" characters and they put us off because we are fully aware that no one is perfect so it feels like TPTB are taking us for fools who just take their word at gospel. Now a lot of auditions aren't about "can you have a break down right this second and cry?" but more about how the person conceptualise who the character is and how they would react in certain situations. Because KC wanted to play Laurel as "perfect", her anger was telegraphed to us as being a self righteous bitch. The script probably had her switching back and forth on how to treat Oliver because she was confused and her carefully crafted existence was once again disrupted. Because KC played Laurel as a perfectly mentally strong woman, she didn't show vulnerability/unsteadiness that could have hinted at how truly unsettled she was by Oliver's return. It was also a writing mishap because they should have had her go through different stages over a period longer than a few days/ maybe week. Even if the episode spanned over more than a week we saw that in only 45 minutes, it gives us whiplash. My guess is if you asked KC, 5 things about Laurel she would say:

• Strong
• Loves Oliver/his soulmate
• future Blegh Canary
• Do-gooder (always been an insult in my mind by the way, like something you say about people who are self-righteous about being good)
• Perfect

Only strong is an interesting adjective to give your own character but there so many variations of it that it's a vague qualifier now especially when people love "strong" women but don't really know what that truly means.

[writersblock51]

...

 

My guess is if you asked KC, 5 things about Laurel she would say:

• Strong
• Loves Oliver/his soulmate
• future Blegh Canary
• Do-gooder (always been an insult in my mind by the way, like something you say about people who are self-righteous about being good)
• Perfect

Only strong is an interesting adjective to give your own character but there so many variations of it that it's a vague qualifier now especially when people love "strong" women but don't really know what that truly means.

 

I bolded that last sentence because I agree - it's a very subjective term.  So I can't fault KC (or anyone using it to describe their character) on that one.

What isn't all that subjective is 'soulmate' - KC has used that term consistently but I don't think she knows what it actually means.  And she's the ONLY one using it for Laurel and Oliver's relationship.

 

And Laurel has a long history of NOT being a do-gooder.  Including 3 key highlights just from the last episode ( bashing up the innocent guy at the hospital, intending to kill Komodo even after he gave his alibi, and not telling either parent about Sara's death). 

 

And no one is perfect but this is TV not the real world, so....

[JenMcSnark]

Maybe she thinks she's a "good-doer" because Laurel put up with Oliver's shit for so long.  And of course soulmates.  This character has never been written as "strong" in any way, shape, or form IMO.  Even in S1:04 she tells Oliver "I made peace with your selfishness a long time ago.  But Moira?  Thea and Walter?  They don't deserve that.  They deserve better; someone who doesn't care only about himself."

 

I don't know how much clearer one can state that they have zero self-esteem and strength without actually saying it.  IMO strength would have been standing up for herself all those years when her soulmate was cheating on her, lying to her, etc.  Strength would be knowing, after 5 long years, that this person is not good for her and doing her best to stay away from even thinking that they are soulmates.

 

Just because you're in love doesn't mean it's meant to be or a healthy love.  

Edited October 20, 2014 by JenMcSnark

[AES13]

 

Maybe I'd believe you didn't think this was fair if you didn't grin like the fat kid who stole the birthday cake from the classroom at the end of last season.

As the fat kid who would steal the birthday cake, I resent the comparison!  ;)

 

After 2 years of watching this character, I'm now firmly in the camp of believing that it's KC's acting that is responsible for my complete antipathy towards Laurel.  Everyone has tried to be even handed in the blame by sharing it with the writers and directors but I can't understand how everyone else one the show manages to make lemonade except for KC.  I like the rest of the show too much to give it up due to her (I survived 10 years of Smallville after all!) but I can only hope that she's written off, sooner rather than later.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

As the fat kid who would steal the birthday cake, I resent the comparison! ;)

After 2 years of watching this character, I'm now firmly in the camp of believing that it's KC's acting that is responsible for my complete antipathy towards Laurel. Everyone has tried to be even handed in the blame by sharing it with the writers and directors but I can't understand how everyone else one the show manages to make lemonade except for KC. I like the rest of the show too much to give it up due to her (I survived 10 years of Smallville after all!) but I can only hope that she's written off, sooner rather than later.

I will fight you for the cake. ;) can't resist a pice of cake with lots of frosting. Although to make it through ten years of SV I think you've earned the cake.

[KirkB]

It can't JUST be KC's acting though. That may be a big part of the problem, but the directors and producers are the ones who hired her and tell her what to do. If they are not getting what they want from her, why would they let it keep happening? The goofy smiles. for example. Why would they let her keep getting away with that if they don't like it or it's not what they want? I can't imagine their shooting schedule is so strict that they have to use the bad take, every single time. A lot of us may not like what KC is doing but her to still be doing the exact same things three years in, the EP's must be getting their moneys worth.

[fantique]

Oh yeah, definitely! The writers were super lazy with this character. They just thought "she's future BC" and did not go further. Just the fact that they established that ridiculous back story showed how little time they spent on her relevance to the story. Instead of starting the show with the focus on her ambitions to help others and stand up for the little people and women, her most important feature to the audience was being "Oliver's Laurel". Bad.Idea. They thought people would want to see push and pull between them? Fair enough. However why couldn't they have her be a law abiding florist who helps out at hospitals by donating flowers and spends all her time in those outreach programs. It would have shown us she has heart, is altruistic and has tenacity. Their first "encounter" could have been at the hospital after he was found, she is leaving flowers around for patients and she sees him being pensive, he notices he is being watched and pulls the fake Ollie Queen BS on her. She is disgusted by that but also notices that before seeing her he looked miserable and lost. That's the hook as to why on earth she would want to touch "Ollie" with a 10ft pole. Then throughout the season we also see her interactions with the Hood, she hears about how criminals fear him in the Glades through her volunteering. She did not even have to be a lawyer.

Edited October 21, 2014 by fantique

[wonderwall]

Is it just me, or has no one been hearing a lot of Laurel noise in the media? I mean there haven't been a lot of articles about Laurel becoming BC like there have been of Oliver/Felicity over the summer and not many critics have expressed any enthusiasm over this (the most is that they acknowledge this is the route Laurel is going down). And I don't see these interviews causing any hype either... IDK. I feel like it's very telling.

Edited October 21, 2014 by wonderwall

[TanyaKay]

Even minimal voice is a lot when it comes to L character, I wish they send her off to somewhere and we only hear about her through the post cards she sends her father.

[writersblock51]

There were at least 3 major articles (that I'm aware of) about how Sara's death was impacting Laurel leading up to and right after last week's "Sara" episode. The only KC/ Laurel thing I've seen since is the interview she gave that was posted on the Arrow board here.

 

There seems to be far more buzz about the upcoming Crossover stuff.  Katrina Law's return made some news yesterday as did the casting of Vinnie Jones as Brick.  Actually, the Vinnie Jones news showed up on IGN. Not shabby for a 3 ep villain.

 

Appropriately, David Ramsey had an interview published yesterday, too.

 

But nothing big about Laurel, regardless of Black Canary stuff, since last week.

 

I don't know if that means anything or not. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

This summer, I figured that if the EPs were going the Laurel as BC route, there would have been more hype about it.  They talked about Oliver and Felicity quite a lot, so I just figured maybe Laurel didn't have anything big going on this year.  When they announced the casting of  

Ted Grant

, I thought that would be bigger news and they were waiting for SDCC to announce that, but nope.  It's bizarre because I figured that they would be promoting KC every chance they could get...but it seems that they are just letting Katie promote herself.  Why aren't they talking this up more?  If they are not excited about it or are afraid of fan backlash, well, that's probably a big clue that maybe this is a direction that you shouldn't be taking your story.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

This summer, I figured that if the EPs were going the Laurel as BC route, there would have been more hype about it. They talked about Oliver and Felicity quite a lot, so I just figured maybe Laurel didn't have anything big going on this year. When they announced the casting of

Ted Grant

, I thought that would be bigger news and they were waiting for SDCC to announce that, but nope. It's bizarre because I figured that they would be promoting KC every chance they could get...but it seems that they are just letting Katie promote herself. Why aren't they talking this up more? If they are not excited about it or are afraid of fan backlash, well, that's probably a big clue that maybe this is a direction that you shouldn't be taking your story.

I think intellectually they know they can't place their bets on KC/Laurel. The fanboy in them is causing them to write what they want to see. A catch-22?

[statsgirl]

I think they didn't talk up KC as Black Canary because they wanted Sara's death to be a shock.  (And it really was to me, I thought they'd realized what a find Caity Lotz was.)  They talked up Oliver/Felicity during the summer cons because that was something they could talk about and not spoil anything really big.

 

Other than that, interviews have turned up in the usual places -- EW, TV Line, IGN and I think TV Guide -- and there seems to be a mini press junket to Vancouver going on right now where everyone is interviewing her.  I think they are pushing KC quite a lot, and one thing that makes me think it is that EBR is out of town while Willa Holland and David Ramsey are not.  With all those reporters  you'd think the show's bosses would have told their main stars to stay in town whether they're shooting right now or not, so I can only think that they don't want EBR there because she would take the focus off of KC.  .

[Starfish35]

I agree with statsgirl. The media blackout on her over the summer, which I thought very odd at the time, was most likely due to them wanting to keep Sara's death from leaking somehow. Now that it's aired, it seems to me like they're been pushing her hard. But maybe that's my bias talking. *shrugs*

[Chaser]

I get why they are pushing her. As much as some of us may not like it, she is the lead female and the show is determined to make her the Black Canary. She needs the most help perception wise. So I get the push, I do. What I don't like is I feel like show is ignoring the large portion of the audience in order to accomdate this. They would be much better off presenting the cast as a whole to the press. I know that EBR would take some shine off KC if she was there, but I hate that the TPTB (whoever that may be) feels it has to seperate the woman on the show in order to prop up one. I personally would love to watch a panel with EBR, Willa, CL and KC.

[SonofaBiscuit]

It seems that KC is massively pushing Laurel and her warrior destiny, but have the EPs been saying much about her, or are they just letting KC do the talking?  I've been so irritated and angry with this show for the last two weeks that I've skipped a lot of interviews.

 

The Laurel stuff has turned me off so completely that I have no desire to watch this week's episode live...I'm reading comments before I do anything.  IMO, they've actually made things worse by trying to include Laurel in the main plot.  Now she's present in the parts of the show I love, which just makes me even angrier.  I do not want her in the lair, I do not want her canary blonde hair.  Ack.

[Starfish35]

I've seen stuff with MG talking about her, but I couldn't put my hands on links right now.

[Chaser]

@SonofaBiscuit: "I do not want her in the Lair. I do not want her Canary Blonde Hair."  LOL

Edited October 21, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[SonofaBiscuit]

I've seen stuff with MG talking about her, but I couldn't put my hands on links right now.

 

Oh, no need to do that.  I trust you and reading the interviews would probably just irritate me anyways :)

[yellowfred]

I get why they are pushing her. As much as some of us may not like it, she is the lead female and the show is determined to make her the Black Canary. She needs the most help perception wise. So I get the push, I do.

 

You know, if they want to help the perception of her, maybe they should worry less about press and interviews and more about how they write her storylines.  I am not joking.  If the intention of the writers and producers was to make Laurel a character that the audience would like and root for, they probably couldn't have done more to undermine themselves if they tried.

 

It was bad enough when they introduced her in season 1 and couldn't decide if she was the girl who always saw the good in Oliver or the one who always called him on his bullshit, so they tried to make her both, which basically made her neither.  Then, in season 2, they gave her that alcoholism/addiction/denial sub-plot in the first half of the season, which they had to know wasn't going to endear her to a lot of people (seriously, I can't count the number of times I've seen a character given this type of story arc on television or in other media, but I can easily count the number of times it's made people like that character more, because it's zero).  Now, to top it all off, they start season 3 by killing off her sister (a well-liked character) to further Laurel's plot, and they haven't even done it in a way that makes sense (I already kind of ranted about that in the episode thread, so I'll leave it at that here). 

 

Honestly, while I didn't love Laurel in season 1, I would say I had more positive feelings about her than negative ones.  I tried to keep liking her in season 2, difficult as it was at times, and now that I've seen the first bit of season 3, I'm not sure I want to keep making the effort.  Worse, I'm not sure the show wants me to either.

[somewhereother]

I think a lot of the discomfort that I feel with Laurel is a problem with origin stories more generally - how to know what the character is going to be in the future and at the same time still be interested in watching them get there. 

 

Oliver is an dick 75% of the time, but I can put that in context of when he was 100% a douchebag in the flashbacks and in the future he has 3 years to go to lower that percentage. I am invested in him becoming Green Arrow because I can see his incremental change. Even Oliver at his most annoyingly high pitched still gets moments of heroism on the island.

 

The structure of the show does not allow Laurel's journey to be contextualised in the same way. Meaning that each each week I am trying to find something in her character that indicates heroism and quite often coming up not only empty handed but with evidence to the contrary.

 

Maybe it is a good thing that it wasn't hardwired in to the show as they wouldn't have been able to reconfigure around the issues with the character. But it does make it difficult to get a handle on where Laurel is going and this uncertainty seems to create a lot of confusion and annoyance.

Edited October 22, 2014 by somewhereother

[olicityfan25]

I think they are trying to make her more popular in the eyes of people who don't like her. Which is useless because all they are doing is shoving her down our throats. She doesn't need to be in the lair. She doesn't even do anything!

 

Also with EBR/Felicity appearing on The Flash it's like another accolade for her because she's appearing there first (after Oliver of course). I think they are trying to do a swap IYKWIM with Laurel. Them talking about her appearing on The Flash is just sloppy seconds to me. Another place she doesn't need to be in.

[fantique]

I just thought of this but I actually remember a lot of media people saying that while they hated Laurel for most of season 2 by the end they felt like she had been redeemed, now of those who said those things mostly were happy with things because they preferred Laurel as BC to be pushed further in the background and only happen maybe seasons from now. Maybe TPTB took that as having redeemed Laurel and anyone who wasn't satisfied with her after fit into 2 categories in their minds. Those are : comics fans who want her in the fishnets pronto and Olicity shippers who want her to die in a fire. I am not saying that it is true, I am saying that that's their perception of the audience/media position. Of course following that logic, the best thing for Laurel is to be out on a very bluntly pointed path to Blegh Canary since obviously creative decisions should never be decided based on shipping.

Basically what I am saying is that depending on where the writers/EPs are looking, they might have thought this was the best way to make this character liked...

[Pyramid]

The thing that I keep hitting up against is the fact that the writers have shown that they can write good compelling characters. What is the fundamental problem with Laurel that she can't be fixed? Or not so far.
And this disconnect between what the writers tell us about Laurel and what they actually show us on screen. It just makes no sense. I've never been more exasperated by a character before, at the moment she's just a huge anchor holding the show back.

[icandigit]

I don't believe that every origin story has to begin like Sara and Oliver. But, I really wish they would have her go off somewhere to train and interact with other characters. That way I can watch the team arrow show I want to see. And they can send her to fishnet training academy and I can fast forward through it. But, they couldn't give me that. I don't know much about comics, but my idea seems more comic appropriate.

[Guest]

How do you solve a problem like Laurel Lance? (Yes. You should sing that line out loud a la Sound of Music.)

 

I know it might not seem like it to some, especially rampant comic book 'must protect canon at all costs!' fans, but the trouble is the writers have jumped into Laurel's journey to BC way too soon. Her character is shaky at best and characters need a solid foundation to help drive forward even the weakest of plots. A strong character will win over a weak plot any day.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that they should have spent this season fixing everything about her character that didn't work. She should have earned her place as DA rather than blackmailing her way into the position and then receiving the title by default. She should have had more scenes with Sara - rebuilt their relationship properly so when Sara did die (they were always going to kill her off, no doubt about it sadly) we would feel a greater connection to Laurel's loss. That's one of the problems with 302 is that we never really saw her grieve. She just jumped straight to anger and everything felt orchestrated as moves to make her BC. If we could connect with Laurel on a baser level then everything else would be a lot easier to accept in the long run. 

 

I agree that the writers had to do something with Laurel and probably the only way to ensure she had any sort of relevance was to make her BC. Without BC she is nothing on this show. So I get it. But they've really gone the wrong way about it and everything else is suffering for it and when other characters that I love are being affected I only end up resenting her.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Guest

[icandigit]

It's odd. I found her tolerable in the premiere so I thought they had gotten a clue. That they would keep Sara around for a while and make Laurel bearable. I shoulda known better.

[TanyaKay]

It's odd. I found her tolerable in the premiere so I thought they had gotten a clue. That they would keep Sara around for a while and make Laurel bearable. I shoulda known better.

 

Honestly, I was not happy with her in the premiere as well. I mean she was making heart eyes at Oliver in the scene where Captain Lance declared Arrow a hero. And it was Captain Lance who declared him a hero but she was all about "I have a surprise for you" as if she was responsible for it. Like always, everything was about her.

[statsgirl]

 

Honestly, I was not happy with her in the premiere as well. I mean she was making heart eyes at Oliver in the scene where Captain Lance declared Arrow a hero. And it was Captain Lance who declared him a hero but she was all about "I have a surprise for you" as if she was responsible for it. Like always, everything was about her.

 

And for her it was only about Oliver, not Diggle and Felicity and Roy who help him.  If the EPs want to redeem her, making her a team player would help.

[GirlWednesday]

Just watched corto Maltese and I swear people the writers are intentionally making this so bad. This character is so ridiculously unsympathetic.

MY sister died. I HAVE her Jacket. IAM so angry. I NEED to beat up bad guys.

Sarah wanted to save women from the hands of men.

LL didn't even try to help the woman. It was all about her.

Maybe she is or will be all must get revenge, I just want to hunt the bad guys, need to spill blood argh!!!

But everyone else is already past this lesson. Oliver, Sarah have all moved past blind revenge. Thea's journey in one hour was compelling. Ten seconds of Nyssa made me care about her next few mins of finding out her love is lost.

Laurel-I don't care about your angry journey girl.

Edited October 23, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[tv echo]

I hate the lack of realism.  Laurel's now flashing a badge and acting like a cop.

[Danny Franks]

I hate the lack of realism.  Laurel's now flashing a badge and acting like a cop.

 

It's probably a 'Most Special Little Girl In The World' badge that her dad had custom made for her when she was a child.

 

I really wish I could sit down with the writers one day and get an honest answer on whether they actively try to make Laurel unlikeable and unpleasant, or whether they just don't realise they're doing it.

[Chaser]

They should have had her go after the beater with the Law first and when that failed then attempt to stop him with physical force (maybe have Laurel get between the man and his victim). That way you would have established a storyline of Laurel becoming disillusioned with the law, protecting the victim and failing in order to encourage her to seek help (Ted). The way the story played in this episode: is was never about the helping the girlfriend, it was about Laurel finding someone to hit.  

Edited October 23, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[KirkB]

It's kind of odd for Laurel to have any sort of bad relationship with the law when she can literally just call her daddy for police help. Her becoming disillusioned enough to turn to vigilantism is one thing, but over the course of a single episode? Maybe if they had spent some of Laurel's wasted screen time before now building up to that point it would make at least a smidgen of sense. They want to make Laurel the Black Canary, fine, what I don't understand is why they are waiting until now to do it when they should have been laying the groundwork the entire time.

[Pyramid]

It's kind of odd for Laurel to have any sort of bad relationship with the law when she can literally just call her daddy for police help. Her becoming disillusioned enough to turn to vigilantism is one thing, but over the course of a single episode? Maybe if they had spent some of Laurel's wasted screen time before now building up to that point it would make at least a smidgen of sense. They want to make Laurel the Black Canary, fine, what I don't understand is why they are waiting until now to do it when they should have been laying the groundwork the entire time.

Yup. It's the speed of the change. From being all about the law to hitting a guy with a bat without even finding out if the lassie was telling the truth, and before getting the police involved. Her righteous indignation just comes off as thuggishness not heroism. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Pyramid

[dtissagirl]

All I'm getting from Laurel still is Single White Female creepy vibes. And I'm still sure it's completely unintentional, and only due to sloppy writing, weak acting, and this crazy [CRAZY] kind of storytelling where Laurel's motivation is a precognitive knowledge that in the future she'll be Black Canary.

 

[And it's even more hilarious when I remember that Berlanti and Kreisberg are actually writing a sensible precognitive knowledge storyline with Dr. Wells on The Flash RIGHT NOW.]

 

After 302, I thought Laurel's motivation to go out vigilante-ing would be to find Sara's killer. When the promo images came out with her busted lip and black eye, I thought she had found another suspect and went in way over her head. And not only that would have been better motivation, but it was also what the interviews with KC and the writers lead me to believe.

 

But she didn't go after a suspect in Sara's murder. She went after rando dude who beat up rando chick just like Sara. Instead of linking it to the overall season mystery, we have Laurel go after a scumbag wife beater EXACTLY like Sara used to do when she first came back into town. And Laurel gets the impetus to emulate her sister when she puts on the jacket and the "fire inside her" urges her into rage/anger/vengeance and violence. The psychotic creepiness is right. there. in these writers' blind spot.