All Episodes Talk: Better Things

[Guest]

Your Better Things All Episodes Topic!

[scrb]

Wonder if the show is coming back or Louis CK will deign to make more TV shows.

Though the last season of this wasn't all that ...

[Jeanne222]

I really liked this show.  Shows writing a good script is still alive in Hollywood!  I wonder why one of the big stations haven't picked this series up instead of all the losers they chose to throw their money on!

[scrb]

It's coming back at the end of February.  Saw a commercial for it during You're the Worst.

Clips they showed something with the daughters.

Looks like the oldest is still going to be around, instead of having gone away to college.

[atomic]

[atomic]

Friendly reminder that Better Things will be back this Thursday! The critical response for season 3 has been overwhelmingly positive, and it sounds like this may be the best season yet.

Pamela Adlon also discusses the show on the latest episode of NPR's Fresh Air podcast. Here is the link for anyone who is interested:  https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/698213882/pamela-adlon-on-better-things

[scrb]

I’ll watch but wasn’t that impressed with last season, which also got rave reviews.

Alison Rosen had on a female comic on her podcast who said that Louis CK these days seems to be trying to shock ever since his #MeToo problems so maybe he’s got a chip on his shoulder for being called out?

If that’s the case you wonder if his current state of mind would affect this upcoming season.

[Door County Cherry]

16 minutes ago, scrb said:

If that’s the case you wonder if his current state of mind would affect this upcoming season.

I am pretty sure he's not a part of this season.

[scrb]

Ah didn’t know they jettisoned them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E1: Chicago

Quote

Sam and Max go on a trip. Written by Pamela Adlon; directed by Pamela Adlon.

Promo:

Clips:

Phil's car:

Max's roommate:

Original air date: 2/28/19

Edited April 4, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Jeanne222]

Watched it last evening!  Was so happy to have another season with this entertaining family!

[txhorns79]

I was curious if it really is a thing now for men and women to be sharing dorm rooms.  I was also a little confused as to why they made it sound like Max would be picking her dorm room the day of move in, when that didn't actually seem to be the case. 

[cpcathy]

The opening with Sam trying on clothes was greatly welcomed, it seemed very, very familiar!

I was confused as to why she got stopped at the airport screening, is there something with extra-absorbent underwear?

[Jeanne222]

That dorm room looked sweet!  Big too!  I loved Sam trying on clothes!  Welcome to middle age kiddo!  Long way from California to Chicago!  What are they thinking???

[ichbin]

Why is this considered to be a comedy? At this point I wouldn't even classify it as a comedy/drama. 

[bilgistic]

I think it's a dark comedy, which is why I like it. It's a very accurate and unflinching look at the life of a single mother of three daughters, which is a universe that is not often represented on TV.

I've mentioned it before in the discussion of this show; I am the oldest of three daughters raised by a single mother. My and my sisters' biological father was absent for most of our lives. Pamela Adlon does an incredible job conveying a single mother's complete weariness while also showing her ceaseless drive to help her girls succeed. The privilege they have is something I can't relate to, but it's otherwise a pretty great show. It's even better in my mind now that Louis C.K. is gone. I wish his co-creator byline could've been erased as well.

[scrb]

First thing I noticed is some kind of personality transplants for the two older daughters, who were so self absorbed and miserable presences.

When Sam asked for a hug, the oldest one actually complied, without whining.

That would never have happened in previous seasons.

The middle one also hugs her and ultimately does what her mother wants.

And Sam seems zen chill, riding up in front of the plane, enjoying her drink, even as the plane is on fire.  Then goes home to a nice big house, is a little perturbed that her mother wrecked the minivan.

Also, didn’t the older daughter say last season that she didn’t want to go to college?  And didn’t seem to care much about grades?

Well you can say she isn’t going to college because I don’t think there’s a Columbia University in Chicago.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 2/26/2019 at 10:09 PM, scrb said:

If that’s the case you wonder if his current state of mind would affect this upcoming season.

On 2/26/2019 at 10:26 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I am pretty sure he's not a part of this season.

FX dumped him from all his shows immediately after he admitted the allegations were true in November 2017. FX issued this statement:

Quote

Today, FX Networks and FX Productions are ending our association with Louis C.K. We are cancelling the overall deal between FX Productions and his production company, Pig Newton. He will no longer serve as executive producer or receive compensation on any of the four shows we were producing with him – Better Things, Baskets, One Mississippi and The Cops.  

Louis has now confirmed the truth of the reports relating to the five women victimized by his misconduct, which we were unaware of previously. As far as we know, his behavior over the past 8 years on all five series he has produced for FX Networks and/or FX Productions has been professional. However, now is not the time for him to make television shows. Now is the time for him to honestly address the women who have come forth to speak about their painful experiences, a process which he began today with his public statement.

FX Networks and FX Productions remain committed to doing everything we can to ensure that all people work in an environment that is safe, respectful and fair, and we will continue our review of all of these productions to ensure that was and is the case.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I LOVED the song Sam and Frankie heard at the club. It was sung by Maxayn Lewis (who was an Ikette!). I saw somewhere online that it's going to be the new theme song for this season.

Why were all those boys just hanging out in the living room when Sam got home? If they were Frankie's friends, why was she upstairs? If you're not actually spending time with them, they need to go home. I don't understand these kids at all. When she said that she hadn't even started reading A Raisin in the Sun which she needed to do by the next day and then she insisted that she couldn't read it so Sam needed to read it to her, I was beside myself. You are not a toddler. It is not your mother's job to read your homework to you and spoonfeed you when you are in high school. Good lord.

I almost couldn't finish S2 because Max and Frankie were such spoiled brats. I can't even begin to imagine my mom's reaction if I said half the shit those two say to Sam. I would have been grounded for the rest of my life.

[MJS]

11 hours ago, scrb said:

Well you can say she isn’t going to college because I don’t think there’s a Columbia University in Chicago.

Columbia College Chicago is a liberal arts college specializing in music and arts. It’s not affilfialied in anyway with Columbia University in NY. 

That did initially throw me for a loop (no pun intended), too, though. 

I love this show so much... I think it grabs the push/pull, love/hate dynamic of mothers and daughters to a tee. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by MJS

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Why were all those boys just hanging out in the living room when Sam got home? If they were Frankie's friends, why was she upstairs? If you're not actually spending time with them, they need to go home. I don't understand these kids at all. When she said that she hadn't even started reading A Raisin in the Sun which she needed to do by the next day and then she insisted that she couldn't read it so Sam needed to read it to her, I was beside myself. You are not a toddler. It is not your mother's job to read your homework to you and spoonfeed you when you are in high school. Good lord. 

Yeah, I was surprised all those kids were just there, and didn't really understand what that was about or why it would have been allowed to happen.  As to Frankie, I just figured that was a moment of weakness for Sam, as she was feeling tired and vulnerable after taking Max to school.   

[possibilities]

I thought Frankie had somehow heard about the airplane and was acting like that as a cover for wanting her mom to stick around a little. But I felt bad that apparently the youngest one never even got a check in because of it.

Grandpa appearing to both the kid and Sam surprised me. It was a little more supernatural than this show usually is. I don't mind, but it struck me as a departure in style.

Was Phil genuinely confused about Max, or was she just being defiant? "They come for the car first"

[Jeanne222]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

Columbia College Chicago is a liberal arts college specializing in music and arts. It’s not affilfialied in anyway with Columbia University in NY. 

That did initially throw me for a loop (no pun intended), too, though. 

I love this show so much... I think it grabs the push/pull, love/hate dynamic of mothers and daughters to a tee. 

Yes, yes and yes!  It's all about the mother daughter relationship s!  Where you choose your battles and don't sweat the small stuff!

Sam loves her girls and they surely love her!  She's terribly outnumbered so there's that.  Add in the wacky mother who I shall ever forget peeing in the library!

Sam surely brings home the bacon and fries it up in a pan!  She is a W O M A N!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E2: Holding

Quote

Sam copes with stuff. Written by Pamela Adlon & Ira Parker; directed by Pamela Adlon.

Promo:

Clips:

Let's step outside:

Hot mess:

Original air date: 3/7/19

Edited April 4, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Lemons]

On 3/2/2019 at 1:07 AM, scrb said:

Well you can say she isn’t going to college because I don’t think there’s a Columbia University in Chicago.

It's a well known school for the arts. 

[cpcathy]

Did Alex Desert get a line in this episode? I saw him and recognized him from Becker but didn't hear him speak.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, man. Sam not being able to fall asleep because of the heat was me last summer. It was a million degrees and I was lying in a pool of my own sweat trying to get even a few minutes of sleep before the sun came blazing through my window to make the room even hotter.

While I understand that allergies SUCK (because I have plenty of allergies to common things that don't bother normal people), Max whining and demanding an off campus apartment because of an alleged vinyl allergy annoyed me.

I loved seeing Sam connect with the old widower this week (and I also enjoyed seeing her connect with some of the people on the plan last week). Often we see her exasperated with her mom or her kids, so it's nice to see her being friendly with other people.

Ha, the scenes at Duke's school reminded me why I am glad I don't have kids. Other parents and their kids are THE WORST. It's not that I don't like people. I just don't like assholes and MAN are there are a lot of asshole parents at Duke's school.

The girls' dad is also an asshole for neglecting his kids 99% of the time and then giving Duke a cell phone with instructions not to tell her mom about it. But no big surprise since he has consistently been a jerk throughout the series.

[possibilities]

I thought it was going to be a menopause story when I saw how overheated Sam was, but I guess that's because I'm in my 50s.

I also enjoy seeing Sam being friendly a and not irritated-- we all  need to buffer the annoyances with other kinds of moments.

[scrb]

I guess Duke is starting to see Sam the same way Sam sees Phil.

Meanwhile Max is back to the whiney teen again, wanting to move out of the dorms and into an apt.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E3: Nesting

Quote

Sam sees old friends and cooks for everyone. Written by Joe Hortua & Sarah Gubbins; Directed by Pamela Adlon.

Promo:

Clips:

Special dinner guest:

Phil's future:

Garage hot box:

Original air date: 3/14/19

Edited April 4, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Blissfool]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:07 AM, scrb said:

Also, didn’t the older daughter say last season that she didn’t want to go to college?  And didn’t seem to care much about grades?

Uh-oh, this smells of Lori Loughlin and her daughter Olivia Jade

[justmehere]

I really enjoyed that episode. Sam's interactions with others have been great this season. She has come across so harshly a lot of times (especially last season), and she still has her moments, but she's been communicating in really nice ways with people, engaging them, conversing beyond basic small talk, seeing them. She's always been pretty open about having people at her house, but it's another level this season. I like it. (One weirdness tonight: cutting Max off mid-conversation.)

I also like the guest shots: Charles Robinson last week (Mac from Night Court); Bernie Kopell (Love Boat) and Mary Jo Catlett (lots of things) in this ep. Also nice to see Sharon Stone. Apologies for being shallow, but she looks great.

I'm enjoying the general tone this season much more than last. It almost lost me before.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Another episode where we get to see Sam interacting with people instead of spending the entire half hour dealing with her bratty kids - that's a win for me!

I loved the opening scene of Sam talking to the older people. It's nice to see her so relaxed and having normal conversations instead of just being stressed out by her kids and her mom which seems like has been the majority of the first few seasons.

I get the struggle between Sam and her brother. I understand his concern but as Sam said, unless he's planning to move out to California and become Phil's personal caretaker and chauffeur, he needs to take it down a notch. It's easy to swoop in after years of not seeing her and start making judgments/decisions about what you think should be done, but Sam lives with it every day so I think she has a better idea of what's going on with their mom.

I remember one of my roommates said that when her grandmother got older, she refused to give up her driver's license because she didn't want to lose her independence, which was further complicated by the fact that she lived in a city that didn't have much public transportation. She said her parents had numerous fights with her grandmother about it.

[scrb]

Eh, Sam has cool and chill friends.

Looks like the kids are back to being extra.

The little one said something about not liking a "primate in the house?"
 

What a strange thing for what, a 10 year old to say.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I get the struggle between Sam and her brother. I understand his concern but as Sam said, unless he's planning to move out to California and become Phil's personal caretaker and chauffeur, he needs to take it down a notch. It's easy to swoop in after years of not seeing her and start making judgments/decisions about what you think should be done, but Sam lives with it every day so I think she has a better idea of what's going on with their mom.

On the flip side, it could easily be that Sam does see it everyday, and is in complete denial about what is happening.  Think of it this way, if Phil is showing real evidence of mental decline, then Sam has another responsibility being placed on her shoulders.  I can see how she would want to avoid seeing things.

Edited March 16, 2019 by txhorns79

[luna1122]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:32 AM, justmehere said:

(One weirdness tonight: cutting Max off mid-conversation.)

Sam just wasn't prepared to have or indulge the 'might be dropping out of school' convo right then,  was my impression. 

On 3/15/2019 at 2:32 AM, justmehere said:

I also like the guest shots: Charles Robinson last week (Mac from Night Court); Bernie Kopell (Love Boat) and Mary Jo Catlett (lots of things) in this ep. Also nice to see Sharon Stone. Apologies for being shallow, but she looks great. 

I loved glenn thurman, who i mostly know from A Different World, and one of the most poignant episodes of Scrubs (and who I just discovered was once married to Aretha Franklin!) 

Not shallow to say Sharon Stone looks great, she does. I didn't understand the conversation with Kevin Pollak though when he was talking about great she looked and then he asked:  what's the equation--- half your age plus seven? I get the reference, but it seemed like such a non sequitur when he was talking about Stone, who is exactly the same age as Pollack. Did i miss, or misinterpret, something there? 

I also loved the whole weed conversation. "That's not old people weed." That was hilarious.

Is Sam going to suddenly dip into the lady pond with that agent, aka The Flipper? It's a trend on TV shows lately. (Or maybe in real life, i don't know. I'm hopelessly straight). Abbi on Broad City, Lindsay on You're the Worst were both sort of suddenly bisexual; is that where they're going here? 

I absolutely adore Diedrich Baker on this show.

[justmehere]

4 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Sam just wasn't prepared to have or indulge the 'might be dropping out of school' convo right then,  was my impression. 

Understood ... it just seems rude to me to disconnect like that when someone is speaking.  

[Pepper Mostly]

On 3/15/2019 at 11:51 AM, scrb said:

Eh, Sam has cool and chill friends.

Looks like the kids are back to being extra.

The little one said something about not liking a "primate in the house?"
 

What a strange thing for what, a 10 year old to say.

Its exactly the sort of thing my kid would have said at 10.

[scrb]

11 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Its exactly the sort of thing my kid would have said at 10.

She would have said "primate" instead of "monkey"?

Very impressive vocabulary level.

[Pepper Mostly]

He, and yes he did. In third grade he wrote a story in which he described a storm as a "raging maelstrom"

Edited March 18, 2019 by Pepper Mostly

[Door County Cherry]

12 minutes ago, scrb said:

She would have said "primate" instead of "monkey"?

Very impressive vocabulary level.

Isn't that the age when they're learning about primates and mammals....etc.?  I can see a younger kid using vocab they just learned in science in a way they likely won't in a few years when their science classes focus on different things. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My little sister referred to elephants as pachyderms from the ages of 2-6 (because she watched Dumbo a lot).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E4: Monsters in the Moonlight

Quote

Sam deals with monsters. Written by Pamela Adlon & Sarah Gubbins; directed by Pamela Adlon.

Promo:

Clips:

Duke's phone:

Sam says it all:

Original air date: 3/21/19

Edited April 4, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[sistermagpie]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:51 PM, justmehere said:

On 3/16/2019 at 11:05 AM, luna1122 said:

Sam just wasn't prepared to have or indulge the 'might be dropping out of school' convo right then,  was my impression. 

Understood ... it just seems rude to me to disconnect like that when someone is speaking.  

Not in that situation, imo. She did, iirc, say, "gotta go, bye!" as if she just had to run, but she did it because Max was ramping up to saying she was wanted to drop out and she's not even going to indulge that for a second. It was a way of pretending to be cheerfully polite like everything was going great for both of them.

Not that it helped, as we see in this ep. I have such trouble understanding somebody like Max. She claims the school's not "challenging" her after a short time but feels she'll be more challenged hanging around with nothing to do? I know she's lying about the challenging aspect--it's probably exactly the opposite and she's running home to the familiar. I just remember even when I was in college I couldn't wrap my mind around kids who dropped out of school randomly (like without a specific reason).

To me it seemed like so much more effort to do that then to just complete your degree. But then, I also genuinely enjoyed classes. But even if Max doesn't she's living on her own in Chicago, which is full of possibilities in itself. Seems like Max would have been happier as the daughter of some rich minor lord in Victorian times where she could hang around and be taken care of and maybe have her mother live with her the whole time.

I could understand Frankie's behavior a lot more. Loved the jealousy between Frankie and Duke about the driving, and Duke was great in the diner scene talking about her phone. 

[possibilities]

You don't have to hate him. I can hate him for you.

[txhorns79]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Not that it helped, as we see in this ep. I have such trouble understanding somebody like Max. She claims the school's not "challenging" her after a short time but feels she'll be more challenged hanging around with nothing to do? I know she's lying about the challenging aspect--it's probably exactly the opposite and she's running home to the familiar. I just remember even when I was in college I couldn't wrap my mind around kids who dropped out of school randomly (like without a specific reason).

I feel like I would have wanted to talk with Max, while simultaneously making it clear to her that coming home mid-semester was not an option.  I also would have let her know that if she really is going to be the adult she claims she is, that she needs to give me a detailed plan for what comes next, i.e. how does she plan on supporting herself?

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I feel like I would have wanted to talk with Max, while simultaneously making it clear to her that coming home mid-semester was not an option.  I also would have let her know that if she really is going to be the adult she claims she is, that she needs to give me a detailed plan for what comes next, i.e. how does she plan on supporting herself?

Yeah, it felt more it was just that she (meaning Max) had won, just as Duke won and got to drive the car. It was like everyone knew things were going to go on as always. Like right away Max giving up after a few weeks of college was a totally reasonable proposition. And did she just use her credit card to buy an expensive plane ticket home? Did she bring all that stuff somehow? And her only stab at what to do next was that maybe she could just show up at her friend's place the same way and get free room and board?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yeah, I don't get Max dropping out after only a few weeks (just as I didn't understand Junior leaving school before classes even began on black-ish). The answer is not to run away and go straight home. I know that's your comfort zone, but at least give school a chance.

Despite the fact that I couldn't wait to go to college (mostly just to move out of my parents' house and be on my own), I had a moment during move in day where I panicked and started thinking I'd made all the wrong choices (the wrong school, the wrong dorm, the wrong city, etc) so I cried and told my mom that I didn't want to be there. She gave me a hug, told me that she understood, and said to just give it a chance. She told me to stick out the semester and if I absolutely hated it, then I could leave after finals. She was right, of course. I ended up being totally fine.

Years later, about halfway through Mr. EB's first semester in law school, he told me that he didn't think he'd made the right decision (going to law school). I remembered what my mom had told me and gave him similar advice. I told him since he'd already signed all the student loan paperwork for the semester, he might as well finish the term and that if he still felt that way after finals, he didn't have to go back. He ended up finishing the semester and staying until he got his degree.

Not everything in life will be comfortable and easy and familiar, but that's no reason to run away as soon as you get bored or frustrated or annoyed or it's hard. It's okay to have doubts and fears, but running away every time you have a feeling that is less than 100% pure joy will not get you far in life.

What was infuriating was how Max acted like she was the one being logical when she was the one who was being hyperbolic. Finishing the semester is not what I would call "wasting your life."

How in the hell did Max get home? How did she have enough money to buy a last minute plane ticket from Chicago to LA? And did she just leave behind all the stuff that Sam bought for her and hauled up to her room? And what was her plan once she got there? Just hang out at home indefinitely?

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What was infuriating was how Max acted like she was the one being logical when she was the one who was being hyperbolic. Finishing the semester is not what I would call "wasting your life."

Exactly. I think lots of kids get homesick or panicked in that first semester or especially when they first start. But I can't wrap my mind around even seriously considering the idea of getting on a plane and just showing up back home and announcing I was staying. It would just be too far out of the bounds of acceptable behavior. Just the embarrassment alone would keep me there. No way could I pretend even to myself there was anything dignified about not handling college--which seems to be what's going on here, not even genuine concerns about being at the wrong school or whatever (which means transfer, not dropping out).

[txhorns79]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What was infuriating was how Max acted like she was the one being logical when she was the one who was being hyperbolic. Finishing the semester is not what I would call "wasting your life."

This.  I don't understand the writing on this show sometimes.  Sam can have these great moments with her kids, followed immediately by moments like this where her kid presents a real challenge and Sam gives up immediately.  I get that parents make plenty of mistakes in how they raise their kids, I just wish they wrote Sam more consistently. 

35 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But I can't wrap my mind around even seriously considering the idea of getting on a plane and just showing up back home and announcing I was staying. It would just be too far out of the bounds of acceptable behavior. Just the embarrassment alone would keep me there. No way could I pretend even to myself there was anything dignified about not handling college--which seems to be what's going on here, not even genuine concerns about being at the wrong school or whatever (which means transfer, not dropping out).

Seriously.  Brenda did this on 90210, and it made sense because Brenda loved her drama, she was too important a character to ditch in Minnesota for multiple episodes and it was a soap opera.  In real life, the kid who did this would either be back on a plane immediately or required to engage in adult pursuits like "getting a job."