Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - General Discussion

[Anduin]

28 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

Rumor:  CBS Considering Bringing Back Deep Space Nine

It is only a rumor, but, if it were to be, I'd only be in favor if it involved the original actors playing their characters.  I'm not, generally, a fan of reboots.

"According to Christian Bone of We Got This Covered"

Uh huh. Yes, it's practically a done deal. Do they in fact have anything covered? I'm not opposed to a revival, I'm just very skeptical.

[blueray]

I'd only watch it if it was the original cast playing older versions of their characters. But even then I'm still iffy about it. Gilmore Girls did a season "8" on Netflix and it was terrible. I feel like this is the case with all of shows that come back they are never as good as the original run. I reboot I will never watch and I would hope would get cancelled. DS9 is a perfect show that I love very much. 

[Kromm]

20 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Rumor:  CBS Considering Bringing Back Deep Space Nine

It is only a rumor, but, if it were to be, I'd only be in favor if it involved the original actors playing their characters.  I'm not, generally, a fan of reboots.

If they do it like the books (which are never canon but occasionally set a broad template) it would be a mix of old and new characters. And that would make the most sense given that the actors are two decades older, so logically the characters would have to be at LEAST that, if not more. Only some of them would make sense to be stationed/living in the same place. Not that many of the others could be written as returning without it seeming silly. 

[Fellaway]

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

If they do it like the books (which are never canon but occasionally set a broad template) it would be a mix of old and new characters. And that would make the most sense given that the actors are two decades older, so logically the characters would have to be at LEAST that, if not more. Only some of them would make sense to be stationed/living in the same place. Not that many of the others could be written as returning without it seeming silly. 

And, sadly, some of the original actors have passed away.

I'd watch that.  My fear is the kind of reboot that takes the same characters and recasts them with new actors, as we've seen done with a number of television shows in recent years.  That'd be a hard no for me.

[Maverick]

 

 

 

 

 

  I doubt they'd do a reboot.  I don't see how it would fit into what they've been with the All Access stuff.   And there would be better stories to tell picking up the threads from the end of the series rather than rehashing it.  Either way, it's probably just a rumor. DS9 appears to still be the stepchild.  I think it's had the least callbacks of any classic series in the newer shows.  I'm not sure how much of the original cast they could get back.   I think you have to have Kira or Sisko at the center of it.   Nana may do it, but Avery seemed done with Trek once the show ended.  Dax and Odo can be done with other actors, but it wouldn't be quite the same. 

 I'd love to see how/when Bajor entered the Federation, how Cardassia recovered (if it did) and if they returned to being an antagonist and what became of the Founders (they ruled over 100s of worlds for 2,000 years.  I doubt they stayed quietly in the Gamma Quadrant).  

[Anduin]

There's a video on YT somewhere, Alexander Siddig and Andrew Robinson doing a reading of someone's fan script called Alone Together. Only, it opwens with the premise of Bashir is still the doctor on DS9, while he's also the head of Section 31. Garak is head of the Obsidian Order. It was too ridiculous to continue. Nana Visitor and Cirroc Lofton come in later. So that's four actors who are interested.

[wanderingstar]

I'm on season 7, but I need to say a word about the season 6 finale, "Tears of the Prophets." How did they give Jadzia the stupidest, least meaningful death possible? Badass Jadzia dies at the hands of a possessed Dukat (which, WTF?) Make it make sense, beloveds.

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gillian Rosh

[Anduin]

59 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I'm on season 7, but I need to say a word about the season 6 finale, "Tears of the Prophets." How did they give Jadzia the stupidest, least meaningful death possible? Badass Jadzia dies at the hands of a possessed Dukat (which, WTF?) Make it make sense, beloveds.

 

My guess is that the news came in late and the writers had to run with the first idea they had. There's another season 6 ep that would have been perfect for her death if anyone had known then. Change of Heart.

[Maverick]

 They knew well in advance Terry was leaving.  In fact as early as Change of Heart.  Terry pushed for them to kill the character in that episode because of her decision...and they should have listened to her.  Not only is her death lame, there's no real fall out to having Dukat be the one to kill her.  Worf should have be on the warpath to find Dukat but I don't think he ever once mentioned him much less ever got to confront him.  In fact, after Dax's death the only one to see Dukat face to face was Kira, who does call him out buts basically gets a "yeah, sorry about that" before the episode moves on.  

 One of the worst parts was having Worf and Jadzia decide to have a child and her being super giddy about it in the same episode she's killed.  It's just such amateurish, lazy writing designed to make manipulate us into feeling teary about her death.  And ultimately it's unnecessary.   She was on the show for 6 years, had many varying plots and relationships with all of the other characters.  If you didn't feel bad about her death, taking on a getting pregnant plot 20 minutes before she dies isn't going to help. 

[Anduin]

7 hours ago, Maverick said:

 They knew well in advance Terry was leaving.  In fact as early as Change of Heart.  Terry pushed for them to kill the character in that episode because of her decision...and they should have listened to her.  Not only is her death lame, there's no real fall out to having Dukat be the one to kill her.  Worf should have be on the warpath to find Dukat but I don't think he ever once mentioned him much less ever got to confront him.  In fact, after Dax's death the only one to see Dukat face to face was Kira, who does call him out buts basically gets a "yeah, sorry about that" before the episode moves on.  

 One of the worst parts was having Worf and Jadzia decide to have a child and her being super giddy about it in the same episode she's killed.  It's just such amateurish, lazy writing designed to make manipulate us into feeling teary about her death.  And ultimately it's unnecessary.   She was on the show for 6 years, had many varying plots and relationships with all of the other characters.  If you didn't feel bad about her death, taking on a getting pregnant plot 20 minutes before she dies isn't going to help. 

I wonder if the producers didn't believe she was leaving. If they chose to act like all was normal until it was too late.

[Raja]

34 minutes ago, Anduin said:

I wonder if the producers didn't believe she was leaving. If they chose to act like all was normal until it was too late.

Acting normal works for the grand intergalactic war story and the casualty rates. A couple of the main cast were POW's and Nog was disabled but with technology had the  potential to be 6 Million dollar manned. Probably not done because of the Borg as well as Khan's people stories. Just falling to a random shot like Uncle Reese would later do on the Sarah Conner Chronicles would have made as much sense as getting hit by a spy. But then there is the franchise history of Tasha Yar's death so a bigger story.

[blueray]

Terry asked to have reduce schedule in season 7, not be killed. But the writers (producers actually) were so upset that they gave her a stupid death scene. It sucks but it would have been easy to have her stay in the show. She did a good job so Starfleet promotes her to a different post on a ship. Then she could be in a few episodes only and have scenes with worf. Of course then:

Spoiler

Ezeri wouldn't be there. Or she still could be, just not "dax". They still really needed a counsler lol. And have her relationship with Bashir start happening way earlier in the season.

 

[KatWay]

29 minutes ago, blueray said:

Terry asked to have reduce schedule in season 7, not be killed. But the writers (producers actually) were so upset that they gave her a stupid death scene. It sucks but it would have been easy to have her stay in the show. She did a good job so Starfleet promotes her to a different post on a ship. Then she could be in a few episodes only and have scenes with worf. Of course then:

  Hide contents

Ezeri wouldn't be there. Or she still could be, just not "dax". They still really needed a counsler lol. And have her relationship with Bashir start happening way earlier in the season.

 

honestly reduced schedule Jadzia would have been better than what we got. I was okay with Ezri but I didn't need her to be there tbh, the last season is usually not great to introduce a new major character. She could have been a side character and have the Bashir romance independently of Jadzia, which would have been way better than the over emphasis on Bashir having "lost" Jadzia in late S6 and early S7 where Ezri felt a bit like his do-over chance, especially since it was so tacked on at the end of the season after little to no build-up.

and at least Jadzia dying in Change of Heart would have been far more impactful than that useless Dukat death for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it would have given Worf a really meaty storyline too. Worf really got shortchanged a lot after Jadzia's death.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

She could have been a side character and have the Bashir romance independently of Jadzia, which would have been way better than the over emphasis on Bashir having "lost" Jadzia in late S6 and early S7 where Ezri felt a bit like his do-over chance, especially since it was so tacked on at the end of the season after little to no build-up.

I love the 6th season, but that "development" of Bashir (and Quark!) pining for Jadzia was...odd. Jadzia's relationship with Julian had settled into a lovely friendship. He not only accepted her relationship with Worf, but he was happy for her when they got married. So this turn was unnecessary and silly.

Now that I'm on to season 7 (watched the first 3 episodes last night), I see the writers planting the seeds of the Ezri/Bashir romance. Which is fine, but Ezri telling Bashir that if Worf hadn't come along, Julian would've been her choice was...I don't know, it seemed deeply unnecessary and a bit of a retcon.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gillian Rosh

[KatWay]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I love the 6th season, but that "development" of Bashir (and Quark!) pining for Jadzia was...odd. Jadzia's relationship with Julian had settled into a lovely friendship. He not only accepted her relationship with Worf, but he was happy for her when they got married. So this turn was unnecessary and silly.

Now that I'm on to season 7 (watched the first 3 episodes last night), I see the writers planting the seeds of the Ezri/Bashir romance. Which is fine, but Ezri telling Bashir that if Worf hadn't come along, Julian would've been her choice was...I don't know, it seemed deeply unnecessary and a bit of a retcon.

agreed on both counts, I hated the sudden "Bashir was pining for Jadzia all along" development of late S6 (probably paving the way for Ezri, but IMO cheapening the actual cute friendship they had by then, Quark too) and the weird "if not for Worf it would have been you" retcon. I just always explained that away as Ezri misreading Jadzia's memories cause she was attracted to Bashir. But seriously, as if. They had four years before Jadzia got together with Worf! And it's not like she wasn't interested in relationships, she knew exactly what she wanted and went for it, usually. She just wasn't that into them, and I won't accept any retcon of that.

[aghst]

I started a rewatch, mainly because I never did watch through the end of the series, in particular the whole Dominion War saga.

When I saw the Dominion destroying that star ship, it was one of the most memorable and shocking moments I'd seen on the ST universe, if not on TV. 

I'm not sure where in the ST cannon this event occurred, whether other star ships had been destroyed yet in other ST series or movies.  Certainly the Wolf359 scenes of the Borg Cube swatting down star ships like flies is one of the signature ship battle scene in the ST universe.

But for some reason, I had a stronger visceral reaction to this kamikaze attack for some reason.  Part of it was that the Dominion was a big surprise at this point in the ST universe.  Star Fleet didn't know anything about the Dominion but apparently they knew about SF.  Plus they used a spy, that telekinetic character pretending to be a Gem'Hadar prisoner and turning out to be a very loyal Dominion agent.

Dominion technology seemed superior, the way they just cut through star ship shields with attacks from those smaller ships, while being mostly unaffected by the star ship's weapons.  Or the way they transported in and out, walked through force fields, without any nearby ship, suggesting they had long-range transporters.

 

I watched most of the episodes through the first two seasons and then found the Dominion Wars wiki, which highlights the specific episodes dealing with the Dominion and their various races in their empire.  So I skipped forward and started watching Dominion-specific episodes only, starting with that first encounter.  The kamikaze scene on this watch didn't quite seem as menacing for some reason.  Guess Sisko called out how they were retreating back to the wormhole and the Gem'Hadar decided to sacrifice one of their ships to make sure the star ship didn't get back out alive.  It was to send a message and for some reason, I recall Sisko's reaction being more angry than it turned out to be on second watch -- I don't know that the actor playing Sisko is that good as some of the line readings in the early episodes for some reason are cringe-inducing to me.

Now I'm going through the Dominion episodes in S4, just finished the two-part about the Star Fleet conspiracy to impose martial law which was fomented by Changeling infiltrators to trick SF into a civil war.

Have very little recollection of these episodes so my guess is I stopped watching around S3 or S4 back in the '90s.

It will be interesting to see if they go to all-out war.  One of the things I thought was lacking in the ST shows and movies is action and protracted war.  I attributed it partly to Roddenbury's reported anti-war stance.  We forget that ST the original series was right in the peak of the Vietnam War but I'd heard Roddenbury was generally pacifist as well.

The Dominion Wars wiki references some research that a war theme would appeal more to younger male viewers (maybe because Star Wars had stoked such an appetite) so the show runners moved it in that direction, a departure from other ST shows and movies.

My interest was that it's unlikely a big Federation would be forged without hostilities.  Plus they represented hostile races, such as the Klingons and the Romulans -- the very first Romulan episode, when the Enterprise first encountered the cloaking Romulans, was one of my favorites -- yet there was rarely protracted war with them or any other alien races.

The other thing was that advances in CGI made more ship battles possible to render but it's also probably the reason ST shows didn't feature space battles all the time, because CGI is expensive and takes a long time to produce, more appropriate for movie budgets and production schedules than TV show budgets and schedules.

I'm not a warmonger at all but for escapist entertainment, I enjoyed seeing more depictions of battles.

 

The possible civil war scenario, with that rogue Admiral trying to take over the earth and Star Fleet, seems pretty mild compared to plots involving infiltration and internal SF wars which occur in later movies and shows.  For instance, I recently watched the first season of Picard and by now it seems far more likely that SF has been infiltrated and there are hostile forces at Star Fleet than not.

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

When I saw the Dominion destroying that star ship, it was one of the most memorable and shocking moments I'd seen on the ST universe, if not on TV. 

I'm not sure where in the ST cannon this event occurred, whether other star ships had been destroyed yet in other ST series or movies.  Certainly the Wolf359 scenes of the Borg Cube swatting down star ships like flies is one of the signature ship battle scene in the ST universe.

But for some reason, I had a stronger visceral reaction to this kamikaze attack for some reason.

One reason it was probably so shocking is that it was a Galaxy-class ship.  The same class as the Enterprise-D.

Edited January 4, 2021 by SVNBob

[blueray]

Episodes related to the Deminion war. Does that include episodes that are sort of related but not about battle like: one little ship or Magnificent Ferangi. Or the more serious episodes like in Pale Moonlight and Terok Nor (not directly about the Dominion but does set up the ferangi episode which is). 

[aghst]

4 hours ago, blueray said:

Episodes related to the Deminion war. Does that include episodes that are sort of related but not about battle like: one little ship or Magnificent Ferangi. Or the more serious episodes like in Pale Moonlight and Terok Nor (not directly about the Dominion but does set up the ferangi episode which is). 

Yeah the wiki doesn't list every episode touching on the Gem'Hardar or Dominion.  For instance, I just watched in S4 an episode where a renegade Gem'Hadar attack the station to steal some equipment because they are rebuilding the Gateway from the Iconians.

That isn't listed on the Dominion Wars Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_War

But Sisko and the crew on the Defiant rescues survivors of a Gem'Hadar ship attacked by the same renegades so they work together to defeat the renegades and defeat the Gateway.

The episode illustrate the fanatic loyalty of the Gem'Hadar to the Founders, even if there are renegades.

But so far in S3 and S4, episodes on the Dominion are sprinkled here and there.  I think there are several reasons why they didn't go all Dominon all the time.

1.  Back in the '90s, I don't think shows did one major plot arc, like they do today.  There were 25 or 26 episodes in these seasons, so that's a lot of content to produce and like I said above, if they make it all about the wars, it probably becomes expensive with much more CGI.

2. Concentrating on the Dominion would have crowded out all the other themes and stories and character development.  With a large cast, there are many episodes featuring one or two characters, more about Dax's past, more about Kira's dealings with the Cardassians, etc.

Plus if DS9 was only about Dominion, other ST shows and movies might have had to go that way as well.  Because if the Dominion are an existential threat to the Federation, how can you have other stories in the ST universe, unless DS9 was occurring in a completely different timeline than other ST shows and movies?

 

Yet to me, Dominion did seem like an existential threat to the Federation and any other races which were not a part of the Federation, such as the Klingons and Romulans.  Klingons were building up bases in the sector.  They may have used the Dominion threat as an excuse to expand their empire but they were treating it as a potential threat.

After they destroyed that star ship, on their first contact with the Gem'Hadar, you'd think the Federation would be alarmed, maybe have PTSD, kind of like how we felt after the 9/11 attacks.  You would think Star Fleet would become prepare for potential war or an invasion into the Alpha quadrant.

But instead, the very next episode, at the start of season 3, the crew on the DS9 don't seem that much on edge.  Of course Sisko returns with the Defiant and his plan is to try to approach the Founders, to make a peace pact.  So they do prepare for war but try to avoid it.

Yet when the Founders make clear they're not interested in peace with the Federation, business seems to return to normal, with many of the episodes in S3 and S4 being these character-focused stories.  But as I said above, it may have been difficult for them to pivot entirely to one big story arc for the rest of the series, because it would impact not just this series but other ST series and movies.

 

It certainly would have changed the nature of the show and the ST universe if DS9 focused on a very destructive, protracted war.  It would have made the show more gritty and changed its optimistic view of humanity, because a lot of their stories are metaphors for how humans deal with each other, so while there is conflict and some battles, the Federation always seem to maintain peace.

 

 

[aghst]

OK I know Starfleet isn't a military organization and people have to live for months or years at a time in space, on duty on a ship or on the space station.

But they seem so casual often.  You always see them with some hot beverage -- apparently replicator can do Earl Grey well -- even while on duty, like while piloting the runabout.

And of course the conversations are casual.  Chief was talking to one of his colleagues about his relationship issues with Keiko.

And then I just watched an ep, skipping around to find Dominion-specific episodes, and Worf and Dax are a thing?

And they're making out in public spaces!

But everyone is often holding a mug -- in the future, mugs look like 20th century mugs.

[PeterPirate]

Well, I've had Homefront on my mind.  It'll probably stay there for the next few days.  

[blueray]

On 1/8/2021 at 5:44 PM, aghst said:

OK I know Starfleet isn't a military organization and people have to live for months or years at a time in space, on duty on a ship or on the space station.

But they seem so casual often.  You always see them with some hot beverage -- apparently replicator can do Earl Grey well -- even while on duty, like while piloting the runabout.

And of course the conversations are casual.  Chief was talking to one of his colleagues about his relationship issues with Keiko.

And then I just watched an ep, skipping around to find Dominion-specific episodes, and Worf and Dax are a thing?

And they're making out in public spaces!

But everyone is often holding a mug -- in the future, mugs look like 20th century mugs.

Hot beverage in a mug, just described every office everywhere. When we see them generally it's just another day at the office. My take is they are allowed to have beverages (well besides alcohol obviously) at work stations. They just take proper precautions like having a top to the coffee etc. 

O'Brien talking about Keiko again just described every work place. People take about the personal lives, that is how we relate to each other and form social bonds. Now if Miles was talking about how the "sex" was that would be inappropriate but talking about his wife general well being is normal.  Miles is the friendly boss that you can have a "beer" with in the metaphoric way. 

Wait have you not watched the show properly all the way through correctly? I feel like missing Worf and Dax's slow built to a relationship is an important aspect to their characters and what they do in the future. Plus it is so in-twined with the war. And as for "public" don't forget they live on the station so if they aren't on duty they can do what a normal couple would do. 

[aghst]

I watched the first couple of seasons when it aired and for this rewatch.

But my goal in the rewatch was to see the Dominion War story played out, which I didn't do when it originally aired.

So I did start skipping between episodes, mostly relying on the Dominion Wars wiki and the episode descriptions that Hulu has.

For me things like Worf and Dax or now Kira and Odo seem like they're giving some of the supporting cast members a chance to be featured in specific episodes.  I will say they probably give better stories to these secondary characters than ST or STNG did.

But for instance, when I watched Lost, I got over the backstory episodes rather quick and saw it as a way to stall out the main story, to keep the show on the air for longer.

Worf and Dax are definitely doing a lot of PDA, on ships, when they return from missions, etc.  I don't think they're all off-duty.  PDA is fine if they're say at Quark's cafe but on ships or airlocks?

In any event, not all these actors deserve more screen time.  It's clear in the earlier seasons that they're featuring Nana Visitor than Terry Farrell, for instance.  Some of the line readings from many of the cast just feels awkward at times.  The actor playing Quark sounds the most natural most of the time.  Odo actor is good too.  The actor playing Garak really likes to project his line readings,  He's good but the way he raises his voice sometimes seem like overacting.

But I understand that they are doing over 2 dozen episodes a season and as I noted above, they couldn't sustain the war story line in every episode.

 

 

 

[statsgirl]

  I watched for the character development of all the characters, including  the supporting ones rather than the war or other action plots which is why it is my favourite of the Star Treks. Character story was the least in the Dominion war episodes except for the occasional episode like Jake's war reporting.

Edited January 17, 2021 by statsgirl

[Ailianna]

DS9 isn't like other shows with bottle episodes of backstory episodes that don't relate to the main story after the first season and a half or so. Almost every episode has the overall arc built into it and includes plot points that affect that arc. I'm not familiar with this wiki you're using but once the war starts basically EVERY episode connects with very few exceptions, and those tend to be the series best in many ways. Reallt, once they first discover there is a Dominion every episode has things that build into the war and a lot of earlier episodes and up with payoffs later during the war. It's just not like other network shows because the level of serialization is very high.

[aghst]

Well finished the rewatch.  Again missing the sense of menace that I recall the first time they fought the Dominion, with the kamikaze tactics.

Their weapons initially cut through shields and Star Fleet got better but still lost a lot of ships and lives.  Dominion bred large numbers of fanatic Gem'Hadar soldiers, which reproduced a lot faster than Federation species and they built a lot of infrastructure in the Alpha quadrant.

Then you had the Breen almost tipping the war in favor of the Dominion.

If not for the virus killing the Changelings, the Dominion still might have won.

In the final episode, they had montages of all the fond memories associated with the various characters and their time on DS9.  I guess the writers wanted a sentimental sendoff.  I don't know if the DS9 characters were ever in any of the ST movies.

Yes humans will tend towards nostalgia since their DS9  tenures were key parts of their lives.

But more realistically, the characters should be feeling all kinds of PTSD and depression.  They were in an existential struggle and they saw many of their friends, maybe also relatives, die in the war.  Even the scale of death and destruction of the victims and casualties they didn't know personally should have weighed on them.

They probably wanted to wrap up the series on a high note but people moving on seemingly so easily with their lives kinds of diminishes the gravity of the war.

 

One of the last episodes had what was intended to be a comic interlude when Quark thought he was going to be made Grand Magus, only to learn that all kinds of reforms in Ferengiar -- progressive income taxes, social safety net programs and laws against swindling other parties -- made the prospect of being Grand Magus very unappealing to Quark, who wanted unbridled greed to rule the Ferengi ethos.

I didn't know ST went for political satire like that.  Probably would have been a lot controversial if this side plot was depicted today.

[PeterPirate]

I wonder if DS9 is going to move to the new Paramount streaming service.  I recently got a notice from Netflix that I should watch it again.  That happened before The West Wing moved to HBOMax. 

[wanderingstar]

8 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I wonder if DS9 is going to move to the new Paramount streaming service.  I recently got a notice from Netflix that I should watch it again.  That happened before The West Wing moved to HBOMax. 

Interesting. I just finished watching DS9 all the way through for the first time. It's currently available on both Netflix and Hulu, but I watched it on Netflix. I guess it would make sense for Paramount to have all the Star Trek shows on their own streaming service.

[blueray]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Interesting. I just finished watching DS9 all the way through for the first time. It's currently available on both Netflix and Hulu, but I watched it on Netflix. I guess it would make sense for Paramount to have all the Star Trek shows on their own streaming service.

I hope they don't ever pull it off of Netflix. I don't want to have to pay for random streaming services and I like that Netflix has all the Star Treks. However DS9, I do own the box set on DVD. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by blueray

[Raja]

On 1/20/2021 at 4:12 PM, aghst said:

Well finished the rewatch.  Again missing the sense of menace that I recall the first time they fought the Dominion, with the kamikaze tactics.

Their weapons initially cut through shields and Star Fleet got better but still lost a lot of ships and lives.  Dominion bred large numbers of fanatic Gem'Hadar soldiers, which reproduced a lot faster than Federation species and they built a lot of infrastructure in the Alpha quadrant.

Then you had the Breen almost tipping the war in favor of the Dominion.

If not for the virus killing the Changelings, the Dominion still might have won.

In the final episode, they had montages of all the fond memories associated with the various characters and their time on DS9.  I guess the writers wanted a sentimental sendoff.  I don't know if the DS9 characters were ever in any of the ST movies.

Yes humans will tend towards nostalgia since their DS9  tenures were key parts of their lives.

But more realistically, the characters should be feeling all kinds of PTSD and depression.  They were in an existential struggle and they saw many of their friends, maybe also relatives, die in the war.  Even the scale of death and destruction of the victims and casualties they didn't know personally should have weighed on them.

They probably wanted to wrap up the series on a high note but people moving on seemingly so easily with their lives kinds of diminishes the gravity of the war.

 

One of the last episodes had what was intended to be a comic interlude when Quark thought he was going to be made Grand Magus, only to learn that all kinds of reforms in Ferengiar -- progressive income taxes, social safety net programs and laws against swindling other parties -- made the prospect of being Grand Magus very unappealing to Quark, who wanted unbridled greed to rule the Ferengi ethos.

I didn't know ST went for political satire like that.  Probably would have been a lot controversial if this side plot was depicted today.

It was the immediate days after the end of the Great War.  It plays like the scenes of the end of WWII. The effects of PTSD would probably manifest later

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[Anduin]

Rom isn't an idiot. He comes off badly, true. But he's a man of hidden depths.

Also, I'm more fond of this one.

[Hiyo]

Hey now getting dragged into elaborate crime syndicates, contracting deadly space diseases, and getting stabbed in (and out of) barfights occasionally happened tho the Next Gen crew too...

[Maverick]

"our captain gets pegged by an omniscient being from another dimension"?   Um, was there a cut scene from when Picard wakes up with Q in Tapestry?  Or are they talking about a different pegging?

 Is the bisexual fashion lizard supposed to be Garak?  Putting aside the fact he was never portrayed as bisexual I've never heard the Cardassians compared to lizards?   

 Kira was never portrayed as a lesbian.  He mirror universe counterpart was clearly bi (or really pan) sexual but not Kira.

 And who is Perpetually Confused White Guy?  Is that supposed to O'Brien, because...what??   Perpetually abused maybe, and I don't see what his race has to do with it.  

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

I've never heard the Cardassians compared to lizards?   

Really?  It seemed obvious to me, even if it wasn't stated outright, that Cardassians had evolved from some sort of reptile, as opposed to the primate humans evolved from.

The make-up, minus the head spoon, was rather indicative of scalier skin than that of humans.   Plus recall the one "date" Garak and Ziyal went on...to a holographic natural sauna.  Meaning they were basking on hot rocks. 

Which also fit in with one of the most common complaints about the station in the first season; the environmental controls were stuck on Cardassian settings, which were too warm for the Bajorans and most of the Starfleet personnel.

[Anduin]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Kira was never portrayed as a lesbian.  He mirror universe counterpart was clearly bi (or really pan) sexual but not Kira.

 

She had far more chemistry with Jadzia than any of her male love interests. Given Mirror Kira's sexuality, I think it's possible. Anyway, these things don't have to be 100% accurate. Just enough to get a laugh and move on.

[KatWay]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

"our captain gets pegged by an omniscient being from another dimension"?   Um, was there a cut scene from when Picard wakes up with Q in Tapestry?  Or are they talking about a different pegging?

 Is the bisexual fashion lizard supposed to be Garak?  Putting aside the fact he was never portrayed as bisexual I've never heard the Cardassians compared to lizards?   

 Kira was never portrayed as a lesbian.  He mirror universe counterpart was clearly bi (or really pan) sexual but not Kira.

 And who is Perpetually Confused White Guy?  Is that supposed to O'Brien, because...what??   Perpetually abused maybe, and I don't see what his race has to do with it.  

I don't think it's meant to be taken literally lol

I thought it was hilarious, because I binge watched TNG and DS9 back to back and yeah, it felt very much like luxury cruise ship standards with classical concerts and evening soirees vs former murder zone station which occasionally tries to kill you, if all the ex-or-current-assassin inhabitants don't do it first. They should have had O'Brian remark on that sometime!

[Hiyo]

Quote

Rom isn't an idiot. He comes off badly, true. But he's a man of hidden depths.

He can be an idiot and still have hidden depths.

[PeterPirate]

In truth there is no beauty.  And no humor, either.

[Hiyo]

The truth can be harsh and disturbing!

Oh wait, wrong show...

[starri]

I'm not sure why this has been on my mind, but it's one of my favorite episodes.  Mostly for the display of Sisko's best quality: that he's a really, REALLY good dad.

[Raja]

On 5/25/2021 at 2:46 AM, Hiyo said:

He can be an idiot and still have hidden depths.

I just happen to see the episode where Rom stared down big brother Quark after he had sabotaged Nog's Starfleet entry exams. 

I also just finished Breaking Bad and just saw "Heisenberg" use the same posture on Saul.

[Ailianna]

1 hour ago, starri said:

I'm not sure why this has been on my mind, but it's one of my favorite episodes.  Mostly for the display of Sisko's best quality: that he's a really, REALLY good dad.

I love this episode so much! I know it's referencing a long sitcom history, including both For Want of a Boot and The Price of Tomato Juice from M*A*S*H, but it still feels fresh and organic seen through the eyes of Jake, Nog, and the Vorta.

[Hiyo]

 

[Chaos Theory]

Just watched "Second Skin" and it was a brilliantly acted episode.   I still wish that the show had found a way to keep Kira's heritage questionable.  That maybe yes she was a Cardassian but I guess I wouldn't make sense because there is no way that Bashir wouldn't be able to tell the difference.   But still it would have been a great storyline for the character.  

[starri]

It was originally pitched as a "Let's Torture O'Brien" episode, and would have revealed that he actually WAS a Cardassian agent, but they realized that they wouldn't be able to explain Molly.  They had originally intended to have Bashir tell Kira that he couldn't tell one way or another, but cut that before filming.

[starri]

"Take Me Out to the Holosuite" is such a silly episode, and from a distance it's perhaps hard to understand why the show would interrupt the very heavy material of the Dominion War to do a comedy episode, but I love it so much.  The cast was either legitimately having a good time, or giving it Oscar-level acting.

[Raja]

Speaking about Chief O'Brian I can't believe that I forgot he was shown on the edge of suicide after his 20 year prison sentence

[Fellaway]

8 hours ago, starri said:

"Take Me Out to the Holosuite" is such a silly episode, and from a distance it's perhaps hard to understand why the show would interrupt the very heavy material of the Dominion War to do a comedy episode, but I love it so much.  The cast was either legitimately having a good time, or giving it Oscar-level acting.

I love that episode, too. It's like a one last good time for the whole crew and the audience. I wonder whatever happened to that baseball, for reals. I coveted it then. I covet it now.