S04.E07: Down the Rabbit Hole

[tennisgurl]

I dont need to see more Frank after this, but I liked seeing him here, and the twist with him knowing what will happen to Claire is interesting, and certainly makes me wonder what went through his mind when he found that article. He might have wanted to tell Claire, but would that lead her to running right off to the stones, putting everything in motion? Should he never tell her, and just wait to see what happens? No wonder he got wasted. I think that Frank was a decent guy, and was a wonderful father to Bree, who loved her with everything he had, even though he knew she was the child of the man his wife (who he really was in love with for a long time) truly loved, and who she still mourned. In an episode with a big emphasis on fatherhood and family, I think it worked well to have this as his goodbye episode. 

You ever think Claire is just like "I mean, I love Jamie and all, but just this month, I've dealt with a Native American serial killer, a Native American ghost, multiple cases of deadly measles, slavery and having to mercy kill a guy to prevent a lynching, public executions, SO MUCH racism and sexism, robbery, attempted murder, my friend got scalped, and yet another war is about to start...maybe the 60s weren't so bad."

[pootlus]

Good episode, and I didn't even notice the lack of Jamie & Claire.  The kid overboard was brutal but I can understand why it was done - but Bonnet looked positively gleeful, which is sickening.  Mind you the actor is so charming that I can't help but like when he's on screen, even knowing what he does later (probably in the next episode judging by the trailer).

It's like mother, like daughter with Laoghaire's reaction to the Beauchamp/Randall/Fraser women.  Mind you she was nasty, but didn't go actually apeshit until Bree (why!?!) mentioned that she knew there would be a fire and that she could save her parents.  I mean, yes it's only 300 years ago but people were still pretty superstitious, I don't get why she wouldn't have just said "I need to be with them," or at least "this wise woman said...".  Plot, I suppose.  At least we got to meet Joanie, who was awesome!

I liked how both Roger and Bree were dressed semi-appropriately, but still looked like hastily thrown together costumes.  Nice work from the wardrobe department.

Loved the Frank bits too. I've always been a huge fan of Tobias Menzies and it was nice to see him again, especially showing what a great relationship he had with Bree.  Blubbed like a baby when the ghost of Frank showed up at the docks, giving his 'blessing' for Bree to depart for the new world and her birth father.  He looked proud and happy.

[Pestilentia]

Quote

My stance is Jaime is very hot but I cannot think of any scenario that would make me give up indoor plumbing, modern medicine and legal personhood for love.

I guess I understand but the great love of my life was such a burning, all-consuming type of compulsion that I would have moved heaven and earth to keep- it was everything.

I truly would wish for everyone to experience a love like that at some point in their life.

And if that love had been cut short by war, if I was denied the ability to have our life together and then somehow got the chance to get it back?  

You bet I would go!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I guess I understand but the great love of my life was such a burning, all-consuming type of compulsion that I would have moved heaven and earth to keep- it was everything.

I truly would wish for everyone to experience a love like that at some point in their life.

And if that love had been cut short by war, if I was denied the ability to have our life together and then somehow got the chance to get it back?  

You bet I would go!!

A GAZILLION times this.

[Scarlett45]

On 12/21/2018 at 5:48 AM, Pestilentia said:

I guess I understand but the great love of my life was such a burning, all-consuming type of compulsion that I would have moved heaven and earth to keep- it was everything.

I truly would wish for everyone to experience a love like that at some point in their life.

And if that love had been cut short by war, if I was denied the ability to have our life together and then somehow got the chance to get it back?  

You bet I would go!!

I think there are a lot of people that feel the way you do, and highly value romantic love (even over things like physical comfort).

I do think people like me are in the minority. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:01 PM, Pingaponga said:

I read the book in August, and somehow entirely missed the fact that Bonnet was the captain of the ship Roger was on.  How did I manage to miss that?? I find the actor playing Bonnet distracting though, because I think he's kind of hot and in my mind, Bonnet definitely was not attractive at all.

 

On 12/18/2018 at 7:21 PM, ruby24 said:

I also pictured Bonnet as nasty and gross. I think the book does describe him as somewhat good-looking, but I could never imagine that, especially after that rape scene describes "Leroy" as unwashed and disgusting.

Well, the wiki says of book Bonnet's physical appearance, "Bonnet had a tall, powerful frame and a barrel chest, his features coarsely handsome and his eyes pale green. He was a few inches shorter than Jamie, with a slightly crooked nose and a small scar by the corner of his mouth. By Claire's assessment, he was the sort of man who attracted women easily."

Re:Roger's appearance without the beard, I think he looked a lot better in his last scene with different clothes and the period ponytail hairstyle.

On 12/19/2018 at 1:35 PM, Scarlett45 said:

For the record I like Frank. He was an excellent co-parent and partner, the sexual compatibility had to be there because she was eager to marry him before the war.

And we saw in the pilot how they got up to it creatively in... unusual environments.

[morgan]

Yes!  I always have attributed Claire’s enthusiasm and adventurous nature when it comes to sex to her time with Frank.  I have always assumed that Frank was pretty awesome in bed.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’m just now watching this abs all that I can think while Brianna is soaking her sprained ankle and then limping along is that NO WAY would she have been able to get her boot back on that fuit!🙄

And If Jamie did commit bigamy, it would have been with Hosebeast, since he was married to Claire first.

Oh what a delusional beast she is, with her revisionist history and of how Jamie loved her until Claire “bewitched” him. And when she finally “got” him, she refused/was unable/whatever to let him make her happy. Guess due to her abusive second husband, she couldn’t. But it’s all I don’t want him, but NO ONE ELSE can have him.

But: ♥️❤️♥️❤️♥️❤️🥰🥰🥰IAN!!!!!🥰🥰🥰🥰❤️♥️❤️♥️❤️♥️

More when I’m done.

[GHScorpiosRule]

This one I just had to slog through. I do like Menzies, and seeing him was a nice surprise, even if I’m not a fan of Frank. And I have to disagree that he and Hosebeast were in similar circumstances. Before Claire fell through the stones, she did love Frank. They were on their way to reconnecting after being separated during the War. The fact that she fell in love with Jamie and realized he was the love of her life made it difficult for her to love Frank when she came back. So shut up writers, in trying to tell me that what happened with Frank and Claire was any way similar or paralleled with that delusional HOSEBEAST and Jamie.

Did Brianna have a bad memory? That she didn’t recognize that obit from when she found it on Frank’s desk? Or she didn’t catch her mom’s name? Or thought it was another Claire? 

And agree that these writers shouldn’t bring back characters because they’re being inundated with fans on social media to do so. That’s NOT how to run a show. If that’s the case, maybe I should launch a campaign to have them get rid of that horrid wig on Sam’s head; inundate Matt and Maril to give the buik readers those big emotional beats they’ve SKIPPED and GLOSSED over until now. Since they both admitted they did all this as fan service as a result of all the “MORE FRANK! Frank!Frank!Frank!”😒😒😒

So much time wasted in watching Brianna trek through the Highlands. Even if it was beautiful scenery.

I, for one, did notice the absence of Jamie and Claire and wanted them there.

[AuntieMame]

Hey Scarlett45, if you like time travel books in general, may I suggest Kindred by Octavia Butler if you haven't read it already. It is about a modern African American woman who ends up travelling to the antebellum South. And she isn't anymore prepared for the reality than anyone else would be. 

Chiming in to add that even when young, and I first read Outlander shortly after it came out, I could never completely give myself over to the romance and I longed for an epic love as a young girl. Now I'm having difficulty believing Claire and Jaime as people in their forties. And is William's age off? Has it really only been six or seven years since Jaime left Helwater? That means that he travelled back to Lolly Broch, was lonely, married Leerie, left her and set up as a printer and smuggler, learning both trades, reunited with Claire and adventures in the West Indies and all of the plot so far in the New World. William appeared to be twelve or thirteen and there are references to Jaime leaving when he was six. It just seems a lot given that travel and work took longer in the eighteenth century.

Edited December 23, 2018 by AuntieMame

[Scarlett45]

15 minutes ago, AuntieMame said:

Hey Scarlett45, if you like time travel books in general, may I suggest Kindred by Octavia Butler if you haven't read it already. It is about a modern African American woman who ends up travelling to the antebellum South. And she isn't anymore prepared for the reality than anyone else would be. 

Chiming in to add that even when young, and I first read Outlander shortly after it came out, I could never completely give myself over to the romance and I longed for an epic love as a young girl. Now I'm having difficulty believing Claire and Jaime as people in their forties. And is William's age off? Has it really only been six or seven years since Jaime left Helwater? That means that he travelled back to Lolly Broch, was lonely, married Leerie, left her and set up as a printer and smuggler, learning both trades, reunited with Claire and adventures in the West Indies and all of the plot so far in the New World. William appeared to be twelve or thirteen and there are references to Jaime leaving when he was six. It just seems a lot given that travel and work took longer in the eighteenth century.

I love Octavia Butler!!! I read all of her Lilith’s Brood novels- so deep. But I have to be in the right head space for her. 

 

I too thought William’s age was a little off, but if he left Hellwater when he was 6, married Laoghaire within the year, only stayed living with her for two years, lived in Ednigburgh for 2 years before Claire came back and it’s been one year since Claire’s return that would make Willie 13. The only part that doesn’t fit is him being able to learn the printing business so quickly. I’m not doubting Jaime’s intelligence but he was actually a printer on top of a smuggler, unless he was working with an experienced printer who did taught him to do all the PRINTING?

[AuntieMame]

It's learning the printing that flummoxes me too in terms of timeline. Glad I'm not the only one. Old printing presses required a lot of  knowledge, maintenance and repair would be required too, not just the printing.

Butler is a favorite of mine. Kindred is more accessible than her long series. 

[Cdh20]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This one I just had to slog through. I do like Menzies, and seeing him was a nice surprise, even if I’m not a fan of Frank. And I have to disagree that he and Hosebeast were in similar circumstances. Before Claire fell through the stones, she did love Frank. They were on their way to reconnecting after being separated during the War. The fact that she fell in love with Jamie and realized he was the love of her life made it difficult for her to love Frank when she came back. So shut up writers, in trying to tell me that what happened with Frank and Claire was any way similar or paralleled with that delusional HOSEBEAST and Jamie.

Did Brianna have a bad memory? That she didn’t recognize that obit from when she found it on Frank’s desk? Or she didn’t catch her mom’s name? Or thought it was another Claire? 

And agree that these writers shouldn’t bring back characters because they’re being inundated with fans on social media to do so. That’s NOT how to run a show. If that’s the case, maybe I should launch a campaign to have them get rid of that horrid wig on Sam’s head; inundate Matt and Maril to give the buik readers those big emotional beats they’ve SKIPPED and GLOSSED over until now. Since they both admitted they did all this as fan service as a result of all the “MORE FRANK! Frank!Frank!Frank!”😒😒😒

So much time wasted in watching Brianna trek through the Highlands. Even if it was beautiful scenery.

I, for one, did notice the absence of Jamie and Claire and wanted them there.

I think the fact remains that Frank & Laoghaire did know & love Claire & Jamie first ( not on the same level of course), but the show is trying to show us different perspectives even if we don’t like them! 

It is funny that the show runners/writers don’t care about some complaints ( wigs for instance- is there ever a review that doesn’t mention that?)

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I love Octavia Butler!!! I read all of her Lilith’s Brood novels- so deep. But I have to be in the right head space for her. 

 

I too thought William’s age was a little off, but if he left Hellwater when he was 6, married Laoghaire within the year, only stayed living with her for two years, lived in Ednigburgh for 2 years before Claire came back and it’s been one year since Claire’s return that would make Willie 13. The only part that doesn’t fit is him being able to learn the printing business so quickly. I’m not doubting Jaime’s intelligence but he was actually a printer on top of a smuggler, unless he was working with an experienced printer who did taught him to do all the PRINTING?

But Jamie is good at everything! 

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Did Brianna have a bad memory? That she didn’t recognize that obit from when she found it on Frank’s desk? Or she didn’t catch her mom’s name? Or thought it was another Claire? 

Brianna doesn't know anything about "James Fraser" while Frank is still living.  She only learns about him after Frank dies.  And lots of women are named Claire.  So that historical document on the desk of her historian father would probably have held very little significance to her and offer no plausible explanation for why Frank is being so behaving so strangely.

[Nidratime]

Quote

Brianna doesn't know anything about "James Fraser" while Frank is still living.  She only learns about him after Frank dies.  And lots of women are named Claire.  So that historical document on the desk of her historian father would probably have held very little significance to her and offer no plausible explanation for why Frank is being so behaving so strangely.

Plus, she barely looked at it. But, she clearly went through her father's papers later (I assume after Roger's call) and came across it again.

[NicoleMN6]

Just watched this episode, and I'm having the same reaction I did when reading the book: Why does Jamie owe Laoghaire anything at all? He could have had her thrown into jail for shooting him with a banned weapon! Sure, Jamie wants to make sure the girls are cared for, but Marsali isn't there anymore and Joan is just one mouth to feed. Plus, Laoghaire couldn't downsize or remarry if her two deceased husbands didn't leave her with enough to live on? What would she have done if Jamie had never married her in the first place?

I thought Ned was a better lawyer than that. 

[toolazy]

2 hours ago, NicoleMN6 said:

Just watched this episode, and I'm having the same reaction I did when reading the book: Why does Jamie owe Laoghaire anything at all? He could have had her thrown into jail for shooting him with a banned weapon! Sure, Jamie wants to make sure the girls are cared for, but Marsali isn't there anymore and Joan is just one mouth to feed. Plus, Laoghaire couldn't downsize or remarry if her two deceased husbands didn't leave her with enough to live on? What would she have done if Jamie had never married her in the first place?

 I thought Ned was a better lawyer than that. 

Ned was Laoghaire's lawyer. 

But just besides that Jamie taking back up with Claire was a HUGE humiliation for her.  She was a laughing stock.  Remember that Jamie takes vows he makes very seriously and he did make vows to her, even if they are legally beside the point when Claire returns.  There is way Jamie would not have compensated her for that.

As for what she would have done if she hadn't married Jamie - well, Jenny would probably have hooked her up with someone else.  Jenny was quite the neighborhood matchmaker. 

[NicoleMN6]

Quote

I thought Ned was a better lawyer than that. 

Ohhh... then, it makes perfect sense! Silly Jamie.

[paramitch]

(waves) Hey all, I'm late to the party but wanted to chime in. I've read the first book (which I loved, until the final quarter, when I basically just felt so sorry for Claire's poor vajayjay, Good lord, the monotony of all those sex scenes). But I do love the show (and don't care if I'm book-spoiled).

This was a good episode to me -- I actually felt like the actress who plays Bree did a nice job (and she has been very uneven in some past episodes), and I was delighted to see Frank again, and in a more sympathetic and complex light than in his previous final episode. And that final heartbreaking vision of him on the docks before Brianna, smiling through tears of farewell -- just really lovely. If that's our goodbye to Frank, it was beautifully done. Tobias Menzies is such a good actor, conveyed so much pride, love, and sweetness.

To echo others, the one thing that got me about Bree was that she's supposed to be smart, but when she twisted her ankle, she should have attempted to wrap the ankle ASAP, put it back in the boot before it swelled up, then packed inside of the boot, around the ankle with snow (versus putting her foot in water). And then picked up a nice strong branch to use as a cane. So yeah -- all that, plus her terrible preparedness in dress and supplies had me facepalming.

One thing I wanted to add to the discussion was that, while many people have attributed Frank's sadness in that scene with Brianna to be due to his realization that Claire will leave him again for Jamie, I felt it was more complicated:

• He got confirmation that time travel is real on an actual, physical level
• He realized that Claire would leave him yet again for Jamie
• He realized Claire (whom he has always loved, regardless) is going to die a terrible, painful death in a far-off time and place he himself cannot reach
• And he was faced with a terrible conundrum -- even if he told Claire, she would have probably rushed back that much sooner, to save Jamie. For all he knows, it is his very words warning Claire that may result in her death or return at all. So there was no right answer there.

On 12/16/2018 at 2:23 PM, AuntieMame said:

I understand that for readers and viewers to fully invest in the romance of Claire and Jaime that this had to be done, but I always had mixed feelings about Frank. OTOH, I felt sorry for him while at the same time feeling the creeping dislike and association with Black Jack. Just as I'm meant to feel. To write him otherwise would make Frank the wronged and sympathetic character who lost the wife he adored through no fault of his own. I must applaud the skill of all of the writers (and the actor) walking such a fine line evoking emotion.

The bolded part is exactly how I see Frank. I have always found him intensely sympathetic, and my favorite episode of the show ever is still "Both Sides Now," when we saw how fiercely Frank and Claire were trying to get back to one another. And I'm a sucker for Tobias Menzies, who I think is an absolutely superb actor.

On 12/17/2018 at 5:05 AM, aemom said:

My husband also commented on how the sandwich was cut in the credits, so I said the same thing, that she brought more than one.

I loved the cutting of the sandwich, and thought it was a nice, subtle symbolism -- the gulf between past and present -- a gulf Brianna was about to cross.

On 12/17/2018 at 6:36 PM, Atlanta said:

Can't remember which character said it in the book (IIRC in the show Murtagh says it), but Leghair will still be an immature girl (not a woman) even when she's 50.

Everyone calling Leoghaire "Leghair" is always going to be hilarious to me.

On 12/18/2018 at 8:13 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

UGH. I blame Ron for this. I hate this more sympathetic depiction of a non entity of a character who was an asshole, into some long-suffering, benevolent husband who only wanted to love his wife that he thought he lost and was faithful to during their marriage and after Claire returned.

While he was certainly a nonentity in the book, Frank isn't a nonentity to me in the show, which is one of the reasons I love the show and disliked the book. I love that Moore took the time to make Frank a real, complex and likable person. It's a vast improvement for me and makes the entire situation more complicated (and emotion-filled). I like that Claire's journey (and eventual love for Jamie) was basically a grenade going off in multiple lives, and that many people were hurt by those events. It's not just "Yay! The Great Love of Jamie and Claire!" Instead, it's, "Ugh, love is painful and messy and people get hurt."

On 12/18/2018 at 12:47 PM, Cdh20 said:

My husband will explain that all men are afraid of Jamie Fraser-that if we (their wives) meet him, we are gone! That is why any men running this show sympathize with Frank! But we women don't care about Frank, we all want Jamie! Making Frank look good has in no way diminished Jamie for us! 

And did Frank just not have time to tell Claire she was going to die in a fire in 17whatever? Did he die accidentally first ? He had time to ask Claire for a divorce!

Jamie is a beautiful man, but he does absolutely nothing for me. (We exist!) 

And Frank didn't tell Claire because for all he knew, it was his warning that might send her rushing back into the past to find Jamie... and then (ironically) die in that fire. He was damned either way, no matter what choice he made.

On 12/18/2018 at 1:19 PM, taanja said:

*raises hand*

Please don't speak for all women.  Jaime has never been "all that" to me. 

Frank is a good and decent man trying to make the best of an impossible situation. I think the show (and especially the actor) did/does a great job of showing the complex and multifaceted aspect of Frank Randall. He is not a saint nor is he evil. He is just a man trying to do his best. And he raised another man's child and loved that child unconditionally. << That says a lot about his character.

For me, either. I like Jamie as a character, but his relationship with Claire is, for me, the most boring thing about him. It took me 3 seasons to realize how complex Jamie was (I loved Season 3 and seeing him away from Claire) -- I realized I'd been kind of unfair to Sam Heughan, who I've slowly realized is a really superb actor. But he's just not my type at all.

On 12/18/2018 at 4:06 PM, domina89 said:

I have always been meh about Frank but I actually loved the last scene with ghost Frank handing Brianna off to Jamie.  I suspect that is the last time we as an audience will see him.  Hats off to Tobias Menzies for giving life to two such unique and complicated characters.  It couldn't have been pleasant getting into the mind of Blackjack Randall.

I loved that moment too -- so much. It was probably my favorite in the episode, that sweet, tender farewell between Frank and his little girl.

On 12/19/2018 at 10:25 AM, Scarlett45 said:

My stance is Jaime is very hot but I cannot think of any scenario that would make me give up indoor plumbing, modern medicine and legal personhood for love. Making the best of things when she fell through the stones the first time (on accident) was one thing, giving up her life, her child, and the 20th century on chance  to be with Jaime (what if he had been married to a woman he really loved and  didn’t want to leave).....

I don’t get it. 

Me, either! This, this, this. Although I do see how Claire's knowledge of medicine, herbs and plants makes her feel a bit insulated from some of those dangers of the time.

On 12/19/2018 at 10:30 AM, Cdh20 said:

I will be sure to tell my husband that some women like Frank! or is just that they don't  love Jamie?

I love Jamie (although I don't lust after him) and adore Frank (who I do think is hot, and who obviously had a great relationship with Claire until her feelings for Jamie obliterated them).

On 12/21/2018 at 3:48 AM, Pestilentia said:

I guess I understand but the great love of my life was such a burning, all-consuming type of compulsion that I would have moved heaven and earth to keep- it was everything.

I truly would wish for everyone to experience a love like that at some point in their life.

And if that love had been cut short by war, if I was denied the ability to have our life together and then somehow got the chance to get it back?  

You bet I would go!!

I envy you, that you've experienced that. I haven't, unfortunately. Although I was amused at your next-to-last sentence because I could argue that this was precisely Frank and Claire's situation before it was hers with Jamie.

On 12/23/2018 at 11:35 AM, AuntieMame said:

Now I'm having difficulty believing Claire and Jaime as people in their forties. 

The total lack of effort to 'age' Claire and Jamie in any realistic way always cracks me up. Despite the fashionable grey streaks, Caitriona looks like a beautiful woman in her thirties, not pushing fifty, and Sam looks equally untouched (I do love the Spectacles of Old Age on him -- so cute).

Further, all of the scenes of Claire in the American wilderness -- tirelessly chopping wood, helping to haul logs, planting crops, etc. -- also have made me chuckle because most middle-aged women would have seriously had to sit down at some point and just gone, "Okay, I'm having a hot flash, my back is killing me, I was okay with no indoor plumbing but I didn't know I would have to build my own house, and this suuuuuuucks."

Edited October 19, 2019 by paramitch

[Ziggy]

On 10/18/2019 at 11:48 PM, paramitch said:

While he was certainly a nonentity in the book, Frank isn't a nonentity to me in the show, which is one of the reasons I love the show and disliked the book. I love that Moore took the time to make Frank a real, complex and likable person. It's a vast improvement for me and makes the entire situation more complicated (and emotion-filled).

...

I love Jamie (although I don't lust after him) and adore Frank (who I do think is hot, and who obviously had a great relationship with Claire until her feelings for Jamie obliterated them).

I think you are absolutely right is saying that Frank is vastly more complicated than what we read in the first book.  We do read about Claire longing for him when she first arrives in the past, and we do read about her struggles in choosing to stay in the past.  Still, he's definitely more present in the show.  Frank remains a presence throughout all the books, because Claire, Bree and even Roger think about him from time to time and recall stories and events.  The books give us a lot to think about, but there is still a lot we don't know.  Would love to read a book (that Diana says she wants to write) called "What Frank Knew."  Intrigue!

One thing the show helped me to recognize from the first book was the awkwardness of Claire and Frank's relationship just before she stepped through the stones.  I thought the show captured that part of the books perfectly.  They were not completely comfortable with each other and kept using sex as a way to try to reconnect.  But I thought it was very clear that Frank was much more interested in his research than he was is spending time with his wife.  Maybe things would have changed over time.  Maybe they would have reconnected and didn't get the chance.  But it always made me wonder, if there had been no stones and no Jamie, would Frank and Claire still have had a troubled marriage?  I wonder if their relationship wasn't doomed anyway.

[Kim0820]

On 12/19/2018 at 1:25 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I do think Claire TRIED to move on emotionally from Jaime but that didn’t happen, we are supposed to believe that’s due to their epic love. My stance is Jaime is very hot but I cannot think of any scenario that would make me give up indoor plumbing, modern medicine and legal personhood for love. Making the best of things when she fell through the stones the first time (on accident) was one thing, giving up her life, her child, and the 20th century on chance  to be with Jaime (what if he had been married to a woman he really loved and  didn’t want to leave).....

It's clear that Claire loves Jamie more than plumbing, modern medicine, etc.  She grew up living rough with her uncle.  She was already able to adapt to anything 18th century.   Without licensing boards or threat of malpractice, she could indulge her passion for herbs and healing.  

Above all, she absolutely loves helping.  She is always ready to help.  She was shown even getting Uncle Lamb's pipe ready for him by taking the first smoke!  He had her helping him all along and that is how she is conditioned.  Her first instinct is always to help.  She can help the 18th century people more.  Even if the 18th century person attacks her, she wants to tend to their injuries.  Of course she had to go on the plague ship no matter what Jamie wanted.  There are a zillion examples. 

I think she prefers excitement that the 20th doesn't have but the 18th does, too. Never complains, she is always ready to handle the problem.  I enjoyed that twice she used her Englishness to get Jamie and Co. out of scrapes.  (With teen Lord John and at the church where she pretended to be a hostage).  

So it doesn't seem like it was a problem to Claire at all, and we are talking about the love of her life.  

She knew it was a risk he'd have someone else, but may not have thought it was a big one, as she knows its a great all consuming love and the chances are that since she has not gotten over it, he hasn't either.  Jamie thought she could just go back to Frank, never thinking Frank might have had someone else in the meantime, either.  So this shows Jamie believes a man doesn't ever get over it, and definitely never gets over Claire. 

On 12/19/2018 at 11:37 PM, tennisgurl said:

You ever think Claire is just like "I mean, I love Jamie and all, but just this month, I've dealt with a Native American serial killer, a Native American ghost, multiple cases of deadly measles, slavery and having to mercy kill a guy to prevent a lynching, public executions, SO MUCH racism and sexism, robbery, attempted murder, my friend got scalped, and yet another war is about to start...maybe the 60s weren't so bad."

It does not bother Claire, though.  She hasn't shown any regret about the things that happen.  Though in the 20th you also have serial killers, kidnappings, mercy killings (even legal in some areas), deadly diseases and all those other things still exist.   The real improvement is technology and the legal system, but not the existence of those evils.

 

On 12/21/2018 at 6:48 AM, Pestilentia said:

I guess I understand but the great love of my life was such a burning, all-consuming type of compulsion that I would have moved heaven and earth to keep- it was everything.

I truly would wish for everyone to experience a love like that at some point in their life.

And if that love had been cut short by war, if I was denied the ability to have our life together and then somehow got the chance to get it back?  

You bet I would go!!

Yes, if Jamie is not "all that" to any of us, he is to Claire.  

Edited May 13, 2020 by Kim0820

[Cdh20]

7 hours ago, Kim0820 said:

 

 

Jamie thought she could just go back to Frank, never thinking Frank might have had someone else in the meantime, either.  So this shows Jamie believes a man doesn't ever get over it, and definitely never gets over Claire. 

 

Isn’t it funny, Jamie didn’t question that Frank would still love her, or that he would raise her child, all a reflection of what he (Jamie) would feel/do! I kinda love that he trusted  Frank would do that.