What do you think WILL happen? Or what do you think SHOULD happen?

[Dizzychickstar]

I agree with you about the relationship drama; the show doesn't do well with it much of the time. It reminds me of that old Teen Nick Soap, "Fifteen." Blech. The only time it seems real is between the two witnesses as they face some issue that tests their bond and threatens the mission. And that issue should not be tied into silly stuffs like the Hawley/Jenny non-relationship or rehashing the same concerns without really resolving them.

Sermon over.

That said, I would like to see the team travel, like to a large urban area or London or to D.C. and to see more of Jenny in the act of acquiring this or that artifact. I like multiple mythologies with the idea that there is some great event, the Apocalypse, etc. which unites them. I'm down for anything referencing Egypt or another African country. Kind of like how most cultures have flood stories, their own big bads, and maybe there are other witnesses from other cultures or times. The two are missing living "teachers" or "guides." Perhaps they encounter one, someone who can help them tap into all of their potential, Irvs and Jenny too.

[MissAlmond]

One more time as I wash, rinse, repeat:  Develop The Town, The Town, The Town of Sleepy Hollow!  Even Benjamin Franklin said various people had "layers" of knowledge there. Where are they?  What's the point and where's the urgency of stopping anything when it appears 98% of the time, the town of Sleepy Hollow  wouldn't care enough to stock up on groceries when a blizzard is in the forecast?  I do give them credit for trying to get the hell out of Sleepy Hollow when they thought the equivalent of Ebola had arrived. 

[jhlipton]

What do I think should happen?

 

Easy:

- Time jump. Crane is hinted at mourning and also getting closure. That's it. No moaning over the wife, no full episodes devoted to his pain. None of that. Listen to your actor, FOX and Clifton Campbell, do a time jump and move on from season 2. I don't even want to hear any utterance of the wife's name or Henry's name at all. None.

 

- More personal time between the four mains. More fun stuff.

- More Jenny/Crane interactions alone.

- A bit more of Crane getting used to modern life

- Stuff on Abbie/Jenny and Crane's dad.

 

That's it. It's a short list, since the rest has already been taken care of.

 

 

A big fat Thumbs Up (the size of Cleveland) to the time jump.  We gots no time for manpain, we's gots monsters to fight!!  (right Indi?  [smile])

 

I'd add -- Abbie goes on dates.  With nice guys. Who aren't the Monster of the Week.  When things don'rt work out because of her focus on The Mission, they part friends. (Shallow end note: Nicole does sexy, very VERY well and I would love to see her get her "groove back" if you know what I mean!)

 

Use the Mills Book of Spells!  it's there for a reason!  (Ich, Abbie and Jenny are the new Charmed Power of Three!)

 

Indiana Jenny!

[DJG1122]

I would like to see Ichabbie develop slowly. On NCIS, Tony had several girlfriends although we knew Tony/Zeva was endgame. On JAG, Mac and Harm almost married other people although we knew Harm/Mac was endgame. On Haven, both Nathan and Audrey had significant others although we know Nathan/Audrey is endgame. I would like to see Ichabod and Abbie show affection for each other and build on that. Irving is still involved with his family and Jenny is healing from Nick Hawley leaving. I would like to see all four of them showing affection for each other and building from that.

[jhlipton]

DJG1122, +1000 for your post.

[fantique]

First order of business is to give some life to this town. I want to be able to believe that there are more than 5 people in Sleepy Hollow.

 

Second, stay on the apocalypse train. There can be levels of demon underlings all trying to be the one to jump start the apocalypse. The writers can, and should, learn about how the representation of christianity and the lore around the apocalypse change in different cultures if they want more exotic lore. Although I think they have plenty with just the whole Native American connection already. Also, the book of Revelation has dragons for pete's sake! If a writer can't do anything creative with it, they should get another job.

 

Third, consistent mythology is key. They need to have some intern whose responsibility is to track what's been done and said and check for inconsistencies. My one worry about the new head writer is that he is not a genre show person. On the one hand, he will help too attach realism to the show so that while the show gets the joke, the characters stay earnest and we can invest in their stories. On the other, he might not be aware of what the cardinal rules of genre shows are. 

 

Fourth, and this is more meta, there needs to be more promotion and opportunities for interaction with the show for the fans. Especially during their off season. Interviews, featurettes on the FOX website, etc. What Game of thrones is doing right now is genius, they are letting all the extra info needed for viewers to understand the show, because THAT is an info heavy show, so that when they pick up for the new season, there doesn't need to be an awkward "intro time!" and we can just get on with it.

 

Fifth, season composition. I would prefer of they split it 9/9 episode for each term. That way if anything happens, two thirds of the show won't be really crap with the last third of the show spent trying to save its own skin. Also, since they have co-leads and in the first season they "divided" thematically the Abbie half and the Ichabod half of the season, I hope they drop that this year. Either mush it all together or alternate every other episode. I actually would like them to have each episode suited to a certain team member's strength. it would bring some character moments while enjoying the MOTW format. Kind of like how criminal minds has different episodes where the unsub is kind of designed for X,Y or Z to catch.

[Eun Soo]

S3 should focus on rehabilitating Ichabod (S2 jerk) and Abbie (S2 enabler of Ike’s jerkiness), and rebalancing their bond.  Although I blame the writers/showrunners for mishandling these marvelous characters, I want my show and these marvelous characters back, and I want the show/characters fixed within the storyline/character context.  We need Ichabbie’s sniping, peevish, eye rolling, humorous, intense partnership, and the writers can give this back to us while dealing with the fallout from Henry/Katrina’s deaths without it being about either Henry or Katrina. Here what I’d like to see S3:
1. Tackle S2 Ike’s jerkiness by exploring the dichotomy between Past/Present Ichabod.  Abbie could trigger this exploration by mentioning the Past/Present Ichabod differences.  People talk about Past Ichabod being smart, confident and self-assured. What I noticed was how repressed he was with everyone but Abbie.  He was calm and collected in the midst of battle, with Franklin, Sutton, and Katrina, but intense with Abbie.  Although I am an Ichabbie shipper, I don’t think this intensity was romantic or sexual in nature.  I think Abbie’s truths cracked the protective mask he displayed to the world.  In the second jail scene, he was more interested in discussing their bond than he was in discussing Franklin’s death.  He was furious with Abbie for keeping the truth of her conversation with Franklin from him, and even more furious with Abbie for telling him the truth about Katrina.  He expected and accepted Franklin sending him from the room in order to have an adult conversation with no display of anger.  He accepted Sutton’s disdain and resentment (this relationship and his relationship with his men may have been the only genuine connections he had before Abbie).  He quickly accepted Present Katrina’s evil turn with sadness, but no display of anger.  I think he elevated or denigrated the founding fathers and Katrina to protect him from the lies and manipulations that surrounded him.  He desperately needed Abbie’s truths, and once he accepted them was able to move forward to face the Horseman and Katrina at peace with himself and his place in the world unlike S1 were he faced the Horseman as an innocent with no knowledge of himself or his place in the world. Without the passive aggressive, guilt trippy shading of his wife, Ike would have probably given Katrina the heave ho the first time she decided to stay with Abraham.
2. Tackle Abbie’s comment about Ike being her weakness, which didn’t really play out in S2.  All we got was Abbie broaching difficult issues with Ike and then giving up or giving in with an impressive eye roll.  She seemed hesitant to insert herself into CFD, and since she was MIA the later part of the season, I need the writers to give me something to help me understand her POV without making it about Henry/Katrina.   Although extremely guarded, she is devoted to the people she loves, and I wonder if she was afraid she would lose Ike if she pushed too hard.  Again, the writers didn’t give us much to work with here.  I would like to see Abbie express her hurt and doubts about the witness bond, and for them to discuss his jerkiness without him dumping any blame on her.  Ike needs to do some serious groveling and penance for hurting her as part of the Henry/Katrina fallout. 
3. The writers should introduce more Abbie back-story – not a guy since she’s emotionally unavailable and focused on the witness fight, and not her father because I’m not sure if the writers can deliver this story.  How about her foster parents?  She doesn’t talk about them.  Why? 
4. Re-visit Abbie and Jenny’s encounter with Moloch in the woods.  They survived 4 days in the woods with a demon, and survived.  Why?  Without Abbie, Ike would have been easy to kill or control when he awakened.  The Masons could have poisoned him or Henry could have “rescued” him.  Is Abbie protected in some way?  Did someone intervene?  Was it ordained by God to send Abby and Jenny on a collision course with Corbin to prepare them for what was to come?  On the similar note, why didn’t the Horseman decapitate Ike on the battlefield?  Only time I’ve seen him go for the chest instead of the head.  Hard to be witness without a head.
5. Give Irving his job back.  I would love to see him and Reyes forced to work cases together.  I’ll just ignore the silliness of the police/sheriff departments being co-located.
6. I wouldn’t mind another encounter with Jenny’s foster “mom.”  What a delightfully malicious piece of work.  Jenny and Abbie could both interact with her this time, and we’d need Ike and Irving there to prevent a murder, but what fun.  How about more Big Ash and sleepy Frank?
7. If they feel the need for a romantic pairing at this point, explore the Irving/Jenny connection.  I don’t see Irving reaching out to his daughter or his ex because of the danger.

[RiddleyWalker]

Hi all,

I haven't posted here for awhile, but thought I'd throw out my thoughts about S3 and what I'd love to see.

 

I'm so glad the Show recognized the importance of the Abbie and Ichabod chemistry, the importance of the POC on the show and the lameness of the CFD.  Yeahh… Great… Wonderful….  Now we're back to where we started, but where do they go from here?

 

If the show becomes merely a vehicle to present the Ichabod and Abbie relationship with monsters and demons thrown in to fill the time between tender touches and cappuccinos, I think the show is doomed. Don't get me wrong, I love Ichabod and Abbie and their relationship, but it's not enough to keep me watching no matter how intimate they get.

 

The episode to episode conflicts with the forces of evil need to lead somewhere. The story-the plot- needs to mean something. The show can't just be a character study or Rom-Com, there needs to be high-stakes, battles with victories and set-backs and some sort of recognizable strategy on the part of the Witnesses.

 

This is, after all, a war against evil, and I think, recognizing that and using the terms and tactics needed in a war would make the show more interesting and compelling. I'm referring to gaining intelligence about the enemy, negotiating with people (or beings) that are undecided to gain allies, seeking out and creating new weapons, spy networks and (at times) having pitched battles--acting as if there is a "war" that means something going on. Perhaps this is a very male view, but I don't think so. This approach would be more likely to capture the interest of many male viewers, but there are many women that would like to see this as well. 

 

Also, in the early fall episodes, a spooky "Halloween" vibe like they had in S1 is something I'd aim for. I really loved that….  :)

 

Just my thoughts,

Edited April 2, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[Blackhoney]

Bravo, RiddleyWalker. Bravo.

[phoenics]

Hi all,

I haven't posted here for awhile, but thought I'd throw out my thoughts about S3 and what I'd love to see.

 

I'm so glad the Show recognized the importance of the Abbie and Ichabod chemistry, the importance of the POC on the show and the lameness of the CFD.  Yeahh… Great… Wonderful….  Now we're back to where we started, but where do they go from here?

 

If the show becomes merely a vehicle to present the Ichabod and Abbie relationship with monsters and demons thrown in to fill the time between tender touches and cappuccinos, I think the show is doomed. Don't get me wrong, I love Ichabod and Abbie and their relationship, but it's not enough to keep me watching no matter how intimate they get.

 

The episode to episode conflicts with the forces of evil need to lead somewhere. The story-the plot- needs to mean something. The show can't just be a character study or Rom-Com, there needs to be high-stakes, battles with victories and set-backs and some sort of recognizable strategy on the part of the Witnesses.

 

This is, after all, a war against evil, and I think, recognizing that and using the terms and tactics needed in a war would make the show more interesting and compelling. I'm referring to gaining intelligence about the enemy, negotiating with people (or beings) that are undecided to gain allies, seeking out and creating new weapons, spy networks and (at times) having pitched battles--acting as if there is a "war" that means something going on. Perhaps this is a very male view, but I don't think so. This approach would be more likely to capture the interest of many male viewers, but there are many women that would like to see this as well. 

 

Also, in the early fall episodes, a spooky "Halloween" vibe like they had in S1 is something I'd aim for. I really loved that….  :)

 

Just my thoughts,

It's like you read my mind. Excellent post and ICAM!

[Enero]

RiddleyWalker - I completely agree with your assessment. I do wonder though if the writers are thinking that's what will work Abbie/Ichabod/Irving/Jenny working relationship with tender moments thrown in here it there and the MOTW?

They completely dismantled the orginal premise of the show last season by killing Moloch and making the CFD the force to be reckoned with. I'm not sure if the Horseman or any Horseman will be back next season.

If they are bent on keeping the apocalypse story dead then they definitely need to come up up with another long game that is fueling the MOTW stories.

[jhlipton]

RiddleyWalker - I completely agree with your assessment. I do wonder though if the writers are thinking that's what will work Abbie/Ichabod/Irving/Jenny working relationship with tender moments thrown in here it there and the MOTW?

 

A good model for this might be Buffy or Angel.  At their best, these shows were about the working relationships, the tender moments and the MOTW.  The Big Bad that linked the season didn't pervade every episode, and was often just lurking in the background.

[RiddleyWalker]

A good model for this might be Buffy or Angel.  At their best, these shows were about the working relationships, the tender moments and the MOTW.  The Big Bad that linked the season didn't pervade every episode, and was often just lurking in the background.

Hi @ Enero and @jhlipton,

 

I think you've both made excellent points. From what I've read, TPTB want a less serialized show. That may mean a going to the Buffy, Angel or early X-files models. 

 

That being said, I'm not sure TV or TV viewers are the same as they were when those shows were originally on. With DVR, hulu, netflix etc, it's much easier to follow or catch up with a show that is serialized and has a "long game" serialized plot. Will a genre show without any over-arching "long game" plot capture viewers? I don't watch a ton of genre shows, but are there very recent shows that didn't have much serialization that were successful? I really don't know myself, but I've found myself more drawn to things like GOT lately for drama. For non-serialized shows, it's usually comedies.

Edited April 7, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[jhlipton]

Will a genre show without any over-arching "long game" plot capture viewers? I don't watch a ton of genre shows, but are there very recent shows that didn't have much serialization that were successful? 

 

Would you consider Elementary as a "genre" show?  It's got a "Big Bad" in the form of Moriarty, but her presence is very infrequent (and the actress didn't even appear in her latest plot-line).  Until this last season (which I think was the weakest), Haven had "through-lines" but they were always secondary to the TOTW  ("Trouble" of the Week).  All-in-all, I don't see a problem with establishing a season-long goal in the first episode, and letting it simmer over the course of the season.

 

One thing I hope they avoid is the "Skyler Problem", where the Big Bad becomes so popular , he takes over the show, eventually becoming too powerful (and not killing him dead at the end of the season).

[RiddleyWalker]

Yes, I think Elementary is at least close enough to SH to be considered in this discussion from the little I've seen.  I think this issue of "serialization" is tough for a network show and I can certainly see why they want to avoid it, but at the same time, I think fans expectations and tastes are changing. Looking at Empire, the FOX megahit, the serialization is a huge part of the ratings. What happens next?

 

I think it's a mistake for the network to avoid serialization in this show (SH). From what I can see, a serialized plot is essential to any live-action drama becoming a hit. If they go the MOTW route (in this day and age) rating will gradually drop off. If they make SH a romantic comedy (which I really hope they don't) they might keep ratings at a respectable level for while before they drop but I would hope they strive for more.

 

Making the show something with both a season long arch and making it interesting and understandable to folks who tune in every now and then to follow and enjoy is a goal I'm sure the Network hopes for but might be unobtainable. I'll be interested to see what approach the show takes.

 

ETA: I'll let others comment on the "Skyler problem."  I'm totally ignorant about that but it sounds like a bad thing...

Edited April 7, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[jhlipton]

I just read a Cracked article (about the upcoming limited X-Files series) that also said that the MOTW format is dead.  I'm not sure I agree, but I'll have to post more later.

[HalcyonDays]

Honestly, I think that "serialized" comment from the FOX heads was just corporate speak hiding the real reality. Yes, they need a certain number of shows to reach syndication, and that may be part of their goal, but the comment was just a redirector. The real problem they knew was Goffman and CFD, but they cannot outright say that. So instead, they made the changes necessary, and claim that the format will be changed. But it really won't. Most of the show was pretty unserialized. I mean, the only overriding theme that went throughout was CFD. Mentions of Mills backstory was contained within each episode, as was Crane's past, Jenny's, Irving's etc. The dialogue was enough to pick up most of the idea.

 

The only serialization flaw was CFD. That's gone now. So they can focus on other things. Similar shows? Castle, Forever, Elementary. They have their MotW/CotW, but also those little character stories that run parallel and may span many episodes that run in the background and also allow character growth and progression. SH already did this mostly, and will continue to do this. The only serialized thing that needed to be moved away from from CFD.

 

Actually, with Clifton Campbell, I think those little stories that run episodes for each character will become tighter, progressive and much more important. He's used to doing this, while weaving standalone cases throughout, so this bodes very well for the show. The only connecting cases or MotW will be a two-part episode, like most shows have.

[Badsamaritan]

I completely agree with expanding the town of SH. I'm hoping that Franklin's mention of others knowing pieces is something that will be followed up on. And I hope we get more insight into why Ichabbie were chosen as the witnesses. I believe without a doubt Ichabod was always supposed to be dragged through time to meet Abbie, the way he got here was just the question.

And on a silly note, I wouldn't mind seeing a Mummy Hand episode either with Ichabod in the Buffy role. Would love to see his various reactions to the same scenarios!

[fantique]

A good model for this might be Buffy or Angel.  At their best, these shows were about the working relationships, the tender moments and the MOTW.  The Big Bad that linked the season didn't pervade every episode, and was often just lurking in the background.

My basic thinking is always "You're a genre show and you have a procedural element? Buffy is your lord and saviour. Follow its path."

 

Hi @ Enero and @jhlipton,

 

I think you've both made excellent points. From what I've read, TPTB want a less serialized show. That may mean a going to the Buffy, Angel or early X-files models. 

 

That being said, I'm not sure TV or TV viewers are the same as they were when those shows were originally on. With DVR, hulu, netflix etc, it's much easier to follow or catch up with a show that is serialized and has a "long game" serialized plot. Will a genre show without any over-arching "long game" plot capture viewers? I don't watch a ton of genre shows, but are there very recent shows that didn't have much serialization that were successful? I really don't know myself, but I've found myself more drawn to things like GOT lately for drama. For non-serialized shows, it's usually comedies.

The thing about this is, a lot of Buffy lovers watch those shows and are praying for something like Buffy to come along again. And, new people are watching Buffy every day and loving it even though they are introduced to it now, they love it. Like Charmed is super popular on Netflix with like 14 year olds. As long as there is a through line that makes it cohesive, along with quality character development, it should be good.

Also, GOT is only 10 episodes a season. Serialisation, IMO, works for 15 and under orders but longer season where it's all piling on get really exhausting. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by fantique

[RiddleyWalker]

My basic thinking is always "You're a genre show and you have a procedural element? Buffy is your lord and saviour. Follow its path."

 

The thing about this is, a lot of Buffy lovers watch those shows and are praying for something like Buffy to come along again. And, new people are watching Buffy every day and loving it even though they are introduced to it now, they love it. Like Charmed is super popular on Netflix with like 14 year olds. As long as there is a through line that makes it cohesive, along with quality character development, it should be good.

Also, GOT is only 10 episodes a season. Serialisation, IMO, works for 15 and under orders but longer season where it's all piling on get really exhausting. 

More excellent thoughts, @Fantique.

 

I think I've been caught up in the idea of the "War", the Apocalypse, which was the original premise for SH. I think that premise necessitates a serialized plot and and eventual conclusion like LOTR. I always thought that was a pretty ambitious premise for the show and the Show appears to have set that aside at this point. Something less ambitious such as simply protecting the world from the inroads of Evil which seem to be centered in the town of Sleepy Hollow would work better in an episodic show. 

 

To be honest, I never found the Myth-Arc for X-Files very interesting and enjoyed their MOTW episodes far more. That being said, There have been so many shows with a similar format since X-Files (and before that Kolchak, the Night Stalker) so monsters have to be recycled and are inevitably compared to their previous incarnations on other shows. Coming up with a good (and especially, original) MOTW is harder than it used to be, I think, which may explain the draw of these more serialized shows.

 

ETA: Hmmmm… Thinking about this, I wonder if I'm just older and more jaded than 14 year-old Charmed watchers. "Yeah, I've seen that before."   Is that it? Lord, I hope not… ;)

Edited April 9, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[Happytobehere]

More excellent thoughts, @Fantique.

 

To be honest, I never found the Myth-Arc for X-Files very interesting and enjoyed their MOTW episodes far more. That being said, There have been so many shows with a similar format since X-Files (and before that Kolchak, the Night Stalker) so monsters have to be recycled and are inevitably compared to their previous incarnations on other shows. Coming up with a good (and especially, original) MOTW is harder than it used to be, I think, which may explain the draw of these more serialized shows.

 

I'm right there with you. I personally feel the myth-arc of the X-Files is what led to its creative downfall. To have a good myth-arc, it must be thought out and meticulously planned from beginning to end. When it became clear the showrunners of the X-Files were playing it by ear, the show was over for me. Hopefully the titanicesque season SH just endured will crystallize the way things should progress from this point forward. SH was blessed by network and fan support to save it this time around, if they veer off course again, I doubt the show will be that fortunate a second time.

[fantique]

Well, actually, for newer generations, it might be harder to get them on board because they have a bazillion more alternatives than back in the early 2000s. Also, they all binge watch so technically, they should be all about serial and not MOTW if that's the medium it works the bets in. Personally, I thank any higher power that GOT is only 10 episodes because as fun as the rewatch is, it's too intense. 

 

i totes agree with you though, the idea of this upcoming WAR with supposedly clearly marked stages should have made at least the first 5 seasons of this show awesome. We should have had themed seasons for each horseman. 1-> Death, 2->War, 3->Pestilence/Conquest and 4->Famine. I thought season 2 was going to be all about how War was tearing the town apart with the push and pull and maybe this time they would've managed to incapacitate the horsemen present and then BOOM, season 3 premiere and we're up shit creek with a paddle. That's what this past season should have been about. The great thing about the apocalypse (LOL) is that the actual Bible clearly depicts stages before it goes boom.

 

The only serialised aspect needed is with the theme of each season centred around a different horseman. Monsters of the week can be themed around holidays, local or international folklore and character development. Like the Sandman was MOTW but the character development for Abbie and the intro of Jenny was on point. One other thing is that since it's been established that people around are aware of the supernatural fight and that they can pop out at any time to help the witnesses. Or they can go through archives and stuff and find a name that sounds suspicious or a person who has looked the same since the 18th Century (hello Reverend Knapp! Rip!). They seek them out and there are traps everywhere to test them. Or the person has been kidnapped by the dark forces. Also, if they reintroduce the covens into the mix, that also occupies time.  They are lucky it's only 18 episodes, less room for fuck ups. They should also do 1-9 with a clear goal/enemy, then 10-18 gets better then worse because the enemy has infiltrated the town and has more knowledge on TW, and look, we can develop the town at the same time. 

[savinggrace]

I know everyone likes Irving -- and I did too at one point-- but I don't see what his point will be on the show if he's not re-instated as police chief.

[jhlipton]

Something less ambitious such as simply protecting the world from the inroads of Evil which seem to be centered in the town of Sleepy Hollow would work better in an episodic show.

Like fantique says, a season-long enemy (like the Horsemen could have been) with minions to fight each episode (and about half the episodes separate from the the over-all theme) would work really well. 

 

To be honest, I never found the Myth-Arc for X-Files very interesting and enjoyed their MOTW episodes far more.

 

Who was doing what to whom, with the Grey Aliens and the Blue Aliens and the Polka-Dot Aliens, just got too confusing. Once Anderson got pregnant and Carter decided on a myth-arc, he should have mapped out all the major players first.

 

Also, if they reintroduce the covens into the mix, that also occupies time.

A great through-line for a season (or two) is "the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend". They can introduce a group that forms an uneasy alliance with Team Witness.  Since this group wouldn't be Eeeeeeeeeeeevi, just having different goals or methods, having one of the Core Four join (and not necessarily be wrong!) could provide conflict and fun.  Just don't kill off the group before you've had a chance to play with them (like the coven, or the Masons).  They could start with the people affected by the bell last season.

[RiddleyWalker]

Well, actually, for newer generations, it might be harder to get them on board because they have a bazillion more alternatives than back in the early 2000s. Also, they all binge watch so technically, they should be all about serial and not MOTW if that's the medium it works the bets in. Personally, I thank any higher power that GOT is only 10 episodes because as fun as the rewatch is, it's too intense. I

 

i totes agree with you though, the idea of this upcoming WAR with supposedly clearly marked stages should have made at least the first 5 seasons of this show awesome. We should have had themed seasons for each horseman. 1-> Death, 2->War, 3->Pestilence/Conquest and 4->Famine. I thought season 2 was going to be all about how War was tearing the town apart with the push and pull and maybe this time they would've managed to incapacitate the horsemen present and then BOOM, season 3 premiere and we're up shit creek with a paddle. That's what this past season should have been about. The great thing about the apocalypse (LOL) is that the actual Bible clearly depicts stages before it goes boom.

 

The only serialised aspect needed is with the theme of each season centred around a different horseman. Monsters of the week can be themed around holidays, local or international folklore and character development. Like the Sandman was MOTW but the character development for Abbie and the intro of Jenny was on point. One other thing is that since it's been established that people around are aware of the supernatural fight and that they can pop out at any time to help the witnesses. Or they can go through archives and stuff and find a name that sounds suspicious or a person who has looked the same since the 18th Century (hello Reverend Knapp! Rip!). They seek them out and there are traps everywhere to test them. Or the person has been kidnapped by the dark forces. Also, if they reintroduce the covens into the mix, that also occupies time.  They are lucky it's only 18 episodes, less room for fuck ups. They should also do 1-9 with a clear goal/enemy, then 10-18 gets better then worse because the enemy has infiltrated the town and has more knowledge on TW, and look, we can develop the town at the same time. 

 

 

Like fantique says, a season-long enemy (like the Horsemen could have been) with minions to fight each episode (and about half the episodes separate from the the over-all theme) would work really well. 

 

 

Who was doing what to whom, with the Grey Aliens and the Blue Aliens and the Polka-Dot Aliens, just got too confusing. Once Anderson got pregnant and Carter decided on a myth-arc, he should have mapped out all the major players first.

 

A great through-line for a season (or two) is "the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend". They can introduce a group that forms an uneasy alliance with Team Witness.  Since this group wouldn't be Eeeeeeeeeeeevi, just having different goals or methods, having one of the Core Four join (and not necessarily be wrong!) could provide conflict and fun.  Just don't kill off the group before you've had a chance to play with them (like the coven, or the Masons).  They could start with the people affected by the bell last season.

 

I really love this conversation, I wanted to let you both know. ;)

 

I tend to be more interested in plot development than characters---as long as I've already bought into the characters. Not sure what that says about me, but there it is. With the end of S2 reboot for SH, I can feel comfortable that the characters I like are going to be a central part of the show going forward.

 

At this point, we don't know how the show is going forward which is exiting and  maybe a little worrisome. Have they cast off for good the Apocalypse? Is Headless going to be around? Will they focus on the characters and their relationships or try and pursue a larger theme as well? There are many ways to skin a cat... I just came across this article regarding serialization which I found very interesting and others might as well. http://theamericanreader.com/the-cosmology-of-serialized-television/

 

There are so many trade-offs a Show and a Showrunner/writers need to consider when mapping out the plot of a show. I think it's interesting that many of the shows which were groundbreaking and innovative ultimately petered out after initial excellence because of, perhaps, wrong decisions regarding the show's arc. SH is certainly not in the Olympian heights of a Lost, an X-Files or a Twin Peaks at this point. But I do think the new show runner has a duty to make the show as popular and critically acclaimed as he can and is thinking of these things.

 

I mentioned earlier the fact that so many to the MOTW creatures have been seen previously by TV viewers and I described that as a bad thing. After further consideration, I think the use of well-know monsters--even "tropes"-- can be a creative and interesting endeavor. Think of cooking. There are a finite number of ingredients a chef can use to prepare a meal. Using the typical ingredients for a well known dish but adding a few different spices or herbs or altering the usually preparation may result in a new and exciting dish. I think the same applies to using well-known monsters and tropes. A certain character's quirk or a change in the origin of a "curse" can totally change the monster. After all, we're still recycling Shakespeare's "tropes" and no one complains...

 

ETA: The comments on that article I linked to were very interesting and educating, to me. Lots of discussion of Mad Men, Sopranos, Lost, Buffy and X-Files-both in the article and the comments.

Edited April 10, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[jhlipton]

Lost was particularly vile in that creators Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse repeatedly claimed that everything had a forthcoming explanation (2007: “We could hand you an envelope right now [with the answers]”), from that sequence of numbers to the wacky smoke monster.

 

I gave up on Lost at the start of Season 3 The "zoo" was too much, and I lost interest.  I kept up through TWOP and was aghast at how dumb it became.

 

Buffy the Vampire Slayer owes its decline specifically to the mistaken emphasis the show put on raising its stakes to increasingly epic levels.

 

I'm not sure that's true.  Season Sux sucked because of the "Magic is crack, yo!" plot-line than because Dark Willow would destroy the world (which pretty much every earlier Big bad wanted to do).  [season 5 failed because people who could accept vampires -- who could be controlled with a chip! -- and witches and all the rest of the Buffy nonsense couldn't -- or wouldn't accept that a "Key" could be made in a human form.  That plus Dawn being bratty and whiny.]

 

As long as there is no imagined or projected end to a work, then any aspect of that work devoted only to advancing toward that end is artistically worthless, since it is intrinsically in bad faith.

 

Not if the audience knows there's no projected end.  Soap operas are the prime example.  There is never a projected end to a soap opera since that would be its death knell.  Once all the guilty are in jail or dead, the amnesiacs have their memory back and the evil twins exposed, you're done, and everyone knows this.  So no bad faith.Superhero comics are another example -- there will always be some new villain (or a modified old one) to contend with.  

 

Even "expansionary shows"  needn't have an end.  Going back to our gold standard, Buffy could have kept going and going, fighting Big Bad after Big Bad.  Once Upon A Time is using that model (albeit not well), with each half-season dedicated to a different villain.

 

The Shield is "Expansionary" with an "Incoherent Mythos"????  WTF???  It was always about Mackey's isolation and ruin, with Claudette and Dutch as counterpoints.  And nothing was incoherent -- pretty much everything laid on what had gone before.

 

This article reeks of "I like this show or these seasons; I don't like that show or those seasons, so I'm going to make stuff up to promote what I like and demote what I don't".

 

The comments raise a lot of the same points.  And the article is two years old -- lots of new shows since then.

 

 

ETA: I love this discussion too.

Edited April 10, 2015 by jhlipton

[phoenics]

More excellent thoughts, @Fantique.

 

I think I've been caught up in the idea of the "War", the Apocalypse, which was the original premise for SH. I think that premise necessitates a serialized plot and and eventual conclusion like LOTR. I always thought that was a pretty ambitious premise for the show and the Show appears to have set that aside at this point. Something less ambitious such as simply protecting the world from the inroads of Evil which seem to be centered in the town of Sleepy Hollow would work better in an episodic show. 

 

To be honest, I never found the Myth-Arc for X-Files very interesting and enjoyed their MOTW episodes far more. That being said, There have been so many shows with a similar format since X-Files (and before that Kolchak, the Night Stalker) so monsters have to be recycled and are inevitably compared to their previous incarnations on other shows. Coming up with a good (and especially, original) MOTW is harder than it used to be, I think, which may explain the draw of these more serialized shows.

 

ETA: Hmmmm… Thinking about this, I wonder if I'm just older and more jaded than 14 year-old Charmed watchers. "Yeah, I've seen that before."   Is that it? Lord, I hope not… ;)

I really, really don't want to see an episodic show that doesn't have some kind of overall myth-arc propelling the story. It's boring to me. I need a show that drops little hints and clues to big bad things happening in later episodes - I need something to speculate on. If it's purely episodic with everything wrapped up at the end of each episode, then there's no point (imo).

That's what made Buffy/Angel compelling and other similar shows.

The trick is in getting it right - I know a lot of shows that tried this and failed because they weren't written tightly enough. The thing is, this kind of show can inspire the most rabid fandom, a la Game of Thrones.

I think they can still do it with 18 episodes - they just need to really plan the season out very carefully and work hard at it.

If they default to MoTW, I don't think there is nearly enough story there - plus it won't be very scary. Part of what terrified me about S1 was the whole Apocalypse thing with the demons moving all fast and cracking mirrors. That scene with Moloch moving fast to the mirror Abbie was looking in is still my all time scariest scene of SH. Even now I jump at it - like that scene of Bilbo Baggins in LOTR:FOTR where he turned all gollum-like and tried to snatch the ring off of Frodo's neck in Rivendell. In the theater, I literally tossed my entire tub of popcorn in my face, in fright, lol.

It was the haunting scary - what's going on - aspect of SH that really elevated it above other shows. Without the Apocalypse, that's lost - it's necessary, imo. Bring that back!

S1 wasn't heavily serialized - it was MoTW, but there was a thread that ran throughout. I NEED that! Without it, SH is just an imitation of Supernatural - and no... just no.

I hope Fox's comment about "no more serialization" was just code for "we're getting rid of the hack who brought you CFD".

I hope the new show runner throws himself into coming up with a kick@ss myth-arc that he can layer over MoTW shows.

I want to know:

1. Why was Ichabod chosen as a witness?

2. Why was Abbie chosen as a witness?

3. Was Ichabod ALWAYS meant to be together with Abbie so they could be witnesses together?

4. Who else knows about this in the present time?

5. What happened to all the Masons?

6. How does Jenny feel about not being a witness?

7. If Moloch is dead - will we ever find out WHY he was so hell bent on coming after Abbie and her whole family? Now that he's dead - will another demon take his place and go back after Abbie/Jenny again?

8. What's the mythology of the Witnesses?

9. Are there any prophecies other than those spoken of in the Bible?

10. Are we still fighting the Apocalypse?

11. Will Headless become a BAMF again now that Katrina is dead and go after Ichabod with a vengeance? Will he try to kill Abbie to even the score?

12. How will this show raise the stakes to bring back the "scary" and "desperate" element it did so well in S1?

[RiddleyWalker]

I really, really don't want to see an episodic show that doesn't have some kind of overall myth-arc propelling the story. It's boring to me. I need a show that drops little hints and clues to big bad things happening in later episodes - I need something to speculate on. If it's purely episodic with everything wrapped up at the end of each episode, then there's no point (imo).

…...

The trick is in getting it right - I know a lot of shows that tried this and failed because they weren't written tightly enough. The thing is, this kind of show can inspire the most rabid fandom, a la Game of Thrones.

I think they can still do it with 18 episodes - they just need to really plan the season out very carefully and work hard at it.

If they default to MoTW, I don't think there is nearly enough story there - plus it won't be very scary. Part of what terrified me about S1 was the whole Apocalypse thing with the demons moving all fast and cracking mirrors. That scene with Moloch moving fast to the mirror Abbie was looking in is still my all time scariest scene of SH. Even now I jump at it - like that scene of Bilbo Baggins in LOTR:FOTR where he turned all gollum-like and tried to snatch the ring off of Frodo's neck in Rivendell. In the theater, I literally tossed my entire tub of popcorn in my face, in fright, lol.

It was the haunting scary - what's going on - aspect of SH that really elevated it above other shows. Without the Apocalypse, that's lost - it's necessary, imo. Bring that back!

S1 wasn't heavily serialized - it was MoTW, but there was a thread that ran throughout. I NEED that! Without it, SH is just an imitation of Supernatural - and no... just no.

 

 Good G-d, @ Phoenics are you in my mind! 

 

I bow down before you as you've said what I want to say so much better than I have. I could quote your whole post but didn't for space reasons even though I agree with every bit of it. Yes! There needs to be a Big picture--hints and allusions to the idea that what is happening in the little town of Sleepy Hollow has repercussions for all of us. Team Witness needs to be a vanguard staving off evil that has the potential to affect all.  Getting it right does require some thought on the part of writers--more than a "how can we make the monster this week cool and different than the way viewers have seen him before?" 

 

I'm not asking for this to be Game of Thrones, but I would like some thought toward the Big Picture, and some epicness in the sense of the actions of the characters being important for others besides their local community. 

 

Oh, and scariness… That mirror smashing scene was soooo good and raised the hair on the back of my neck. Yes! It was so other, so malevolent and implacable. More of that would be fantastic!

 

Hope the Show checks in to this site occasionally… ;)

 

ETA: And after reading that article I linked to. I'm content if SH has this epicness even if the ending the show alludes to is never finally shown or is less than hoped for. There are so few shows that get that opportunity (to wrap the series up) and so often they're disappointing. Even Fringe , which had the opportunity to have a full season to wrap the series up, disappointed some fans (though, IMO, I couldn't have asked for more.)

Edited April 11, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[jhlipton]

So basically, RiddleyWalker, you want this show to be a Buffy with a Fringe on top?

I'll show myself out...

[Limelight]

Now that Orlando is exiting and that leaves a hole in Sleepy Hollow (as well as my heart) I'm hoping that they bring John Cho back as Andy.  Is that possible considering how he died, to have him come back as alive and human, to be part of the police force again?  I would like that and it would take some of the sting away from Orlando's departure.

[Iamsweetdee]

I want them to bring back Corbin's son. He would fit right in. 

[HalcyonDays]

What do I think will happen now that Orlando Jones is leaving? I am 99% sure that there for sure will be a time jump. Gives time for Crane to get over the wife (and we don't have to suffer through it) and they can easily explain away Frank Irving's absence. Just say that he decided to move back to New York City with Cynthia and Macey, to start over, work on his family and get away from the crazy that is in Sleepy Hollow. That's all they need to do.

[Dizzychickstar]

True true. Easy enough to write Irving out, and I will mourn the loss. What could act as balm is the return of Andy...no reason why he couldn't have escaped Purgatory, especially seeing as he has a reason too...his devotion to Abbie. So many ups, downs, twists and turns to waiting for the return. *off to read more fanfic

[AmandaPanda]

I would love for John Cho to come back as Andy, but he's already signed on for a multi-episode run on New Girl next season. Since they're both Fox shows, it's feasible he could come back. I agree with the idea that Corbin's son should come back. I liked his character and think he could fit in well with the rest of the cast.

[CalamityBoPeep]

I'm guessing they'll try to insert the new reporter guy into Orlando's spot, keeping Reyes as the skeptical-sheriff antagonist, unless they decide to give her a  big "you can't deny what you've seen with your own two eyes" moment, like they did with Frank in season 1.  But I still think they'll go with the reporter to fill out the core 4.

 

Hopefully they'll keep the door open for Orlando to come back, if he wants to, even for brief guest appearances.  It'd be sad to have him killed off completely, especially after all Frank's been through.  And part of me can't let go of the possibility of Mr. & Mrs. BAMF.  I still ship Jenny and Frank pretty hard. LOL

Edited May 7, 2015 by CalamityBoPeep

[Watermelon]

I absolutely do NOT want that stranger worried about his camera when there are demons within spitting distance as part of the core 4.

 

His priorities are shitty. 

 

He can be a cute guy that shows up every few episodes, though.

[jhlipton]

I would love for John Cho to come back as Andy, but he's already signed on for a multi-episode run on New Girl next season. Since they're both Fox shows, it's feasible he could come back. I agree with the idea that Corbin's son should come back. I liked his character and think he could fit in well with the rest of the cast.

 

Given that Abbie liked both of them,. I think it would be terrific if they both came back.  Gives her twice as many options for date Night than if just one came back.

I like the idea of the time-jump (which is pretty much needed to get the CFD crap out of the way) and have Frank mosey into the sunset.

Anybody tweet Mr Campbell?

[RiddleyWalker]

Wasn't exactly sure where to start this thread but this seemed to fit...

 

I've enjoyed everyone's thoughts on the other threads and have to admit the "boobage" thread was right up my alley. Thanks @jhlipton!  ;)

 

The conversation I'd like to start is this: "Who would you love to see as a guest character/actor on Season 3 of SH?"

 

I'd love to see Dule Hill (who I was great on "Psych") playing the same sort of character on SH. I think it would be a lot of fun if the show did a purely comedic episode or two. 

 

Yes, I've been all for serious, epic, LoTR and GoT type arcs for the show, but I don't think that will work in the long run nor do I think the show will head in that direction. With that in mind, I'd be all for bringing "Gus" on board for an episode or two….

 

What do you all think and what guest stars do you think could work on the show?

Edited May 30, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[jhlipton]

I like Dule Hill, but I don't think "Gus" would work on SH.  Gus was, by and large, a straight-man / foil for Shawn.  It might work if they took some of Gus' nerdier aspects and his "run away!!!!" attitude, but not his "why am I putting up with this" aspects.  

 

Ophelia Lovibond, who played "Kitty" on Elementary, is a very nuanced actress -- I wouldn't mind seeing her on this show.

 

Both Aisha Tyler and Gabrielle Union are very busy -- I'd love to see either, or anyone with their talent, but NOT related to the Mills.

[OakGoblinFly]

Dule Hill is busy with HBO's Ballers, so I don't think he's available .... and don''t forget, before he was Gus he was Charlie Young on The West Wing .... dude's got range.  :)

[RiddleyWalker]

I like Dule Hill, but I don't think "Gus" would work on SH.  Gus was, by and large, a straight-man / foil for Shawn.  It might work if they took some of Gus' nerdier aspects and his "run away!!!!" attitude, but not his "why am I putting up with this" aspects.  

 

 

 

Dule Hill is busy with HBO's Ballers, so I don't think he's available .... and don''t forget, before he was Gus he was Charlie Young on The West Wing .... dude's got range.  :)

Good thoughts on Dule Hill!

 

Yes, "Gus" was always the "straight man" so his character might not work on SH, but I'm wondering if there's someone on the current cast who could play the "clown" for an episode? Probably not TM, who's playing the "straight man" himself and maybe not NB (though I'm not sure…she might be able to pull it off). Lyndie might be able to do it. Shoot they could bring James Roday in for an episode!  

 

I did see that Dule Hill was on "Ballers" but I'm not sure if that's an ongoing role or not. I'll have to check out the inter web. I'll bet he could spare the time for one or two episodes, though. He does, certainly,  have "range" and would love to see him in any role on SH.

 

ETA: Looks like he's done with his role on Ballers and is in a new CBS pilot called "Doubt" and given the poor odds on a new show making it, he may well be available. Keep him in mind SH (and pass the word Mr/Ms intern reading these comments…)  ;)

Edited June 4, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[netlyon2]

[snip] Probably not TM, who's playing the "straight man" himself and maybe not NB (though I'm not sure…she might be able to pull it off). Lyndie might be able to do it. Shoot they could bring James Roday in for an episode!  [snip]

Interesting.  I'd actually argue that NB is the one playing the "straight man" to TM's grumpy curmudgeon.  The most humorous moments of the show, IMO, are when Ichabod is getting all pissy about something and Abbie alternates between understanding and amused (thinking of moments like the opening to "What Lies Beneath" when Ichabod starts off musing that he might be completely assimilated into our time until he sees the girls taking selfies; Abbie's "Aaand, go!" just as he slides into his rant about Instant-gram is a thing of beauty).  This is, of course, excluding the charmingly wacky and tongue-in-cheek antics of Season 1.  (Anyone remember the decapitated street sign?  Fun Headless was the best!)

 

For a purely comedic episode, I think the show would have to walk a fine line.  There's no straight up "buttmonkey" like, say, Xander, who could be the punchline of all the jokes for an episode (or twenty).  They *might* be able to pull off an altered-state type episode, where everyone gets hit with goofballs or something and hilarity ensues.  An even better bet would be one driven by increasingly-ridiculous circumstances, where all of Team Witness would be the straight man trying to deal with the universe-as-clown.

 

Hmmm, now I'm interested to see if they could pull that off. . .

Edited June 4, 2015 by netlyon2

[HalcyonDays]

Probably not TM, who's playing the "straight man" himself and maybe not NB (though I'm not sure…she might be able to pull it off). Lyndie might be able to do it. Shoot they could bring James Roday in for an episode!

 

TM may play the "straight man", but he really does have awesome comedic chops. He's really good with the physical comedy and the light Crane bits. From earlier interviews, I don't think anyone - including Mison - expected that he himself would be a natural at it, especially considering his previous roles. (well, he was the bit of goofball in Lost in Austen...)

 

So a goofy fun episode - a la X-Files Small Potatoes or Jose Chung or Bad Blood - would be hilarious and awesome and all three of them would have no problem pulling it off. But it's got to be done right, or it will just be cringeworthy.

 

I'd actually argue that NB is the one playing the "straight man" to TM's grumpy curmudgeon.

 

This is exactly how I see it too, so an episode where Crane is the straight man and Abbie is the quirky goofy one would be awesome, because it's the complete opposite of how I see it. Even an episode or episodes with lots of Jenny and Crane bouncing off of each other in their snarky way. We saw brief glimpses of this in season 1 and those two are awesome together. Season 3 needs more of just those two bonding or hanging out.

 

I do also would like to see this - more of the Crane we saw in Tempus Fugit. Not the curmudgeon out of his element, but where he is as his confident authoratitive self (but not ranting about something), just as we saw in Tempus Fugit, but in the 21 century. That would be cool.

[RiddleyWalker]

Interesting.  I'd actually argue that NB is the one playing the "straight man" to TM's grumpy curmudgeon.  The most humorous moments of the show, IMO, are when Ichabod is getting all pissy about something and Abbie alternates between understanding and amused (thinking of moments like the opening to "What Lies Beneath" when Ichabod starts off musing that he might be completely assimilated into our time until he sees the girls taking selfies; Abbie's "Aaand, go!" …….

 

For a purely comedic episode, I think the show would have to walk a fine line.  There's no straight up "buttmonkey" like, say, Xander, who could be the punchline of all the jokes for an episode (or twenty).  They *might* be able to pull off an altered-state type episode, where everyone gets hit with goofballs or something and hilarity ensues.  An even better bet would be one driven by increasingly-ridiculous circumstances, where all of Team Witness would be the straight man trying to deal with the universe-as-clown.

 

Hmmm, now I'm interested to see if they could pull that off. . .

I think you're right in that TM is playing the "fool" to NB's "straight man", but neither is playing the clown like Shawn on Psych. Interesting to think of the different types that can be used to make effective comedy. Like you mentioned, they could all play the straight man….

 

I would love to see an episode with…say a mischievous demon of some sort, a potion gone wrong or something of that sort resulting in a total personality change of one of the group with the obligatory "resultant hilarity".

 

In any event, it's season 3 so they can experiment...a little. I have to remember the show's essentially on probation at this point.

[RiddleyWalker]

TM may play the "straight man", but he really does have awesome comedic chops. He's really good with the physical comedy and the light Crane bits. From earlier interviews, I don't think anyone - including Mison - expected that he himself would be a natural at it, especially considering his previous roles. (well, he was the bit of goofball in Lost in Austen...)

 

So a goofy fun episode - a la X-Files Small Potatoes or Jose Chung or Bad Blood - would be hilarious and awesome and all three of them would have no problem pulling it off. But it's got to be done right, or it will just be cringeworthy.

 

Yes! TM is fantastic with those lighter bits (and the heavier ones). I have no doubt the cast could do a smash-up job if the writing was up to the task...

 

Great examples of this being done in a similar genre series. I loved them all! ;)

[Aoife]

I want Ichabbie to move forward with their relationship. Because watching them revert into it during season 2 was possibly one of my minor pet peeves in s2. 

 

I want more bigger picture episodes. Because someone kept the secret for 250 years, and I bet those people do not necessarily live in Sleepy Hollow. I want to know why both Crane and Abbie were chosen. 

 

More Jenny. 

 

I don't mind Hawley returning. Hawley was fun.

 

I want a more mature version of season 1. Monster of the week, mythology episode, Monster of the Week.

 

And no more Henry whining. From anyone.

 

 

 

 

[HalcyonDays]

I want Ichabbie to move forward with their relationship. Because watching them revert into it during season 2 was possibly one of my minor pet peeves in s2. 

 

I want more bigger picture episodes. Because someone kept the secret for 250 years, and I bet those people do not necessarily live in Sleepy Hollow. I want to know why both Crane and Abbie were chosen. 

 

More Jenny. 

 

I don't mind Hawley returning. Hawley was fun.

 

I want a more mature version of season 1. Monster of the week, mythology episode, Monster of the Week.

 

And no more Henry whining. From anyone.

 

Totally agree with all of your points and I'll add to the end. No more Henry or wife whining. I never want to hear their names again.

 

Seriously.

[jhlipton]

Totally agree with all of your points and I'll add to the end. No more Henry or wife whining. I never want to hear their names again.

 

Cosign (and arctangent -- a little trig humor for ya...)

[Julia]

Cosign (and arctangent -- a little trig humor for ya...)

Tangential, even.

[HalcyonDays]

Cosign (and arctangent -- a little trig humor for ya...)

 

Tangential, even.

 

Geeks - the lot of ya! *grin* Love it.

 

Considering the bevy of news today...(remember, spoiler free thread)

 

What should happen - a engaging, fun, exciting show that features lots of the amazing trio of Jenny, Crane and Abbie.