Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER

saoirse

What do you think WILL happen? Or what do you think SHOULD happen?

Recommended Posts

Okay folks, this is where you talk about what you would like to see happen/what you think will happen/what you worry will happen!

 

No SPOILERS please! If you do put something spoilery in here, please use the spoiler tags. If you want to discuss spoilers, head over to the Spoiler thread. Thanks much!

Share this post


Link to post

I think we'll know about Jenny's and Ichabod's fates first. Probably one will find/save the other in the first few minutes. If everyone acts in character, IMO, Jenny should be alarmed and angry that Ichabod abandoned Abbie in purgatory and would demand to go rescue her immediately. Of course, Ichabod would reject the idea, whine about his wife and insist on giving priority to her. Jenny and Ichabod would love to go on separate ways to work on their respective priorities, but Ichabod is basically useless on his own, so he'd probably join Jenny with the hope of using Abbie again to rescue Katrina.

 

I think we'll get a few creepy glimpses of Abbie in purgatory, but she won't get much screentime, until she's out. I hope she finds a way out before the second episode ends, but who knows how long they want to keep her there?

 

Irving... I like the character, but he's stuck with a dumb plot, that makes no sense. Whatever happens, I hope it doesn't take him long to get out of jail.

 

And finally Luke. Was he still in hospital in the finale? I don't even know if he'll be part of S2.

Share this post


Link to post

I would love for Orlando's character to continue to be a good guy, and for them to get rid of the Sin Eater pretty quickly.  I would like to see a little more of Icabod adjusting to modern times, and possibly Jenny training Abbie more on how to fight.  

Share this post


Link to post

Here's what I want to see happen sometime this season: 

  • Abbie takes Ichabod to a Crane stationery store, and he demands his share of the ownership plus free fountain pens and ink for the rest of his life.
  • Every time Ichabod or Katrina sees Henry, he or she exclaims, "It's my baby boy! Come to poppa/momma!" That, or they could fuss over whether he's eating enough or has warm enough clothes on and why he didn't marry that nice Morris girl down the road and when is he going to give them grandchildren? It's guaranteed to drive him insane (okay, more insane), and then they wouldn't have to worry about him any more.
Edited by Kris117
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm hoping the show stays away from a forced redemption storyline for Henry, but I don't think it will.  He's evil, he's been evil, and when given a choice in this latest episode, he chooses to remain evil.  A much more interesting story would be Katrina continuing with her blind faith that Henry can be redeemed, causing her to fall down a dark path that Ichabod avoids with Abbie's help.  That way, Henry can remain one of the Horsemen, Katrina will be forever divided from Ichabod, and Ichabod and Abbie can continue their partnership/friendship/whatever without Katrina being a third wheel.  Katrina would become a much better character, using her powers to help Henry even if it means ending the world, blinded by a mother's love...for her ugly, 65 year old-looking "kid". 

Edited by Dobian
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I'm hoping the show stays away from a forced redemption storyline for Henry, but I don't think it will.  He's evil, he's been evil, and when given a choice in this latest episode, he chooses to remain evil.  A much more interesting story would be Katrina continuing with her blind faith that Henry can be redeemed, causing her to fall down a dark path that Ichabod avoids with Abbie's help.  That way, Henry can remain one of the Horsemen, Katrina will be forever divided from Ichabod, and Ichabod and Abbie can continue their partnership/friendship/whatever without Katrina being a third wheel.  Katrina would become a much better character, using her powers to help Henry even if it means ending the world, blinded by a mother's love...for her ugly, 65 year old-looking "kid". 

I like this very much, but I'm not sure Katrina can be saved as a continuing character at this point in any fashion---the fan hatred of her seems insurmountable. Also, her continuing existence probably means continued pining by Ichabod for her (unless she has, indeed, "enchanted" him) Here's an alternative that I like...

 

Here's my scenario to fix the show… :)

Henry actually kills Katrina in some fashion-perhaps "accidentally" despite her hopes to redeem him- (and she goes to somewhere permanent she can't get out of--i.e. not purgatory). Henry regrets this, is apparently repentant, reconciles to some degree with Ichabod, and lays down the mantle of "Horseman of War." He serves a role similar to Walter Bishop on Fringe helping the Witnesses to fight the baddies with his arcane knowledge and powers.(Though he's still conflicted, possibly a double agent and could be turned back to evil at any point if he really has repented) Henry's knowledge from being in Moloch's inner circle would keep the Witnesses from continually relying on Franklin's journals, Washington's Bible and Ichabod's "experiences" in order to understand how to fight Moloch.

 

Meanwhile, Headless is pissed (especially at Henry) and goes on the warpath. (He's also now really "headless" as Katrina's necklace was destroyed.)

Finally, Irving becomes the "new" Horseman of War! Not sure what happened to his family but he blames Henry and the Witnesses.

One or two episodes tops and we're back on track!

 

Edit: After thinking a bit about this, it's still kind of soap opera-ish. I'm thinking more and more that SH is the second coming of "Dark Shadows"--which is not necessarily a bad thing. I could get behind that if they embraced this and "owned" the soap opera thing…  :) Not what I'd hoped for, but it might actually be the best way to keep the aspects I love the most such as Ichabod's cranky remarks about modern society, the wacky "twistory" and the Ichabod-Abby relationship to the forefront. Keeping those aspects prominent and telling an epic adventure tale may be beyond the capabilities of the writers...

Edited by RiddleyWalker

Share this post


Link to post

What should happen is the apocalypse we were promised. Instead of all these creatures and events being about Crane and his highly dysfunctional family they should relate to biblical prophecies about the impending apocalypse. I want to see the whole town of Sleepy Hollow brought into the loop. I want to see locusts, rivers turning to blood, frogs,, etc. I want the four horsemen to actually be scary and represent impending doom and not unrequited love and mommy/daddy issues.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I figured out what I want to see!

Instead of constant mustache twirling, I want Henry to include a head pun in every conversation he has with Abraham for as long as we have to look at his awful head. Maybe every sentence.

Also, I want Katrina to ingratiate herself to sappy Abraham so that she learns all of his plans and Henry's plans and his horse's favorite food from him. And then she tells the Witnesses and a big proactive counter-plan comes into being during the season finale.

And it absolutely flops. It's a huge stinker of a plan and they lose big time because all of the info Katrina gave them was wrong. So Abbie and Ichabod are like "WTF. WTF though, Katrina."

Cut to Katrina... who is also all "WThyF, Abraham. I thought you trusted me. You lied about everything."

And then Abraham goes into a short rant about how he knew she would deceive him because that's what she does to everybody and how he can't believe that going shirtless that one time worked and whatever, it's awesome but no gendered insults because those aren't cool. And then (the best part) Abraham goes "The biggest lie I told was that my steed's favorite food was carrots!"

And then he RIPS the necklace off of Katrina's neck and throws it in the air. And then his horse dramatically hops a log and catches it midair in its mouth. And you can tell that stupid jewelry really is its favorite food because there's a close up of it crazily chewing the necklace to dust with its giant red eyes wide with glee.

And then Headless is back (forever!)! And he just stands there for a minute and Katrina's just like "Well, shoot." But then we notice he's shaking a little bit. And then he puts his hands on his sides. And then he bends over and braces his hands on his knees.

Cut to black on the image of the Headless Horseman silently guffawing over his massive victory (over Henry too - second favorite food?) and over the credits we hear Abbie's voice go "Crane, I swear to God, if you don't work with me to fix this bulls-"

Season 3: Team Witness is more aligned and trusting of each other than ever and Headless is scary again.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

WThyF - Oh my gawd, your whole scenario is awesome, JayKay!! I totally LOVE that, and the WthyF!! Priceless!

 

And over the credits we hear Abbie's voice go "Crane, I swear to God, if you don't work with me to fix this DAMN bulls-"

 

Don't forget Abbie saying the word 'Damn' and her classic eye-roll!!

 

And Crane responds " We shall be united together in this task. Lieutenant, I will endeavour to determine the true coveted food of the Horseman of Death's steed! He shall not prevail!...wait, was that Katrina....?" <wanders off...>

 

Okay, I think some of us on this board need to get together and write for the show!

 

What Thy Fuck...God I love that!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Wow!  Just when I finally decided to join Previously TV to discuss SH, the”stan” has hit the fan.  I’m not surprised at the direction Season 2 has taken.  I remember Goffman’s comments during the hiatus and unlike many, I never believed he was being coy.  I thought he was telling the truth which made me wary.  It’s also clear now that the writers really didn’t know what made the show tick, somehow they believed if they could only explain Katrina, everybody would go along with them for the ride.  That some may be upset and losing it  on Twitter is probably due to shock.  My advice:  I concur with the suggestion of not making Henry Ichabod’s son.  That idea probably is great for a cliffhanger, but then what?  Unlike many, I wouldn’t even get rid of Katrina, make her a ghost again, whispering vague suggestions that make no sense. My scenario? Have Season 3 begin with Irving discussing the events of Season 2 with Abbie and Ichabod only for them to say they don’t know what he's talking about.  Irving gets up, looks out the door and it’s the police station, (Luke there’s too!).  While Irving is scratching his head over this, the mayor of Sleepy Hallow roars in wanting to know WTH Irving is up to, when suddenly we realized it’s Henry!  No, he’s not the son, he’s the mayor, he’s always been the mayor, he never loses an election no matter how many people claim to vote against him.  Why?  Because Moloch put him there.  As the season goes on, Irving continues to meet up with people who he sees as the person they were in Season 2, but they really aren’t.  Basically, a lot of things that happened in Season 2 really was Moloch messing with Irving’s mind.  The writers now have a fresh start without entirely losing Season 2 and they can keep their cast.  Katrina is back to being a ghost.   Headless can go back to being a Bad Ass.  They keep Henry and he’s still bad.  Hawley stays, give him a different back story, bring back Jenny, and restore the Ichabod/Abbie relationship.  Stop making everything personal to Ichabod and return it once again to whatever was written in Washington’s Bible (and have each succeeding president know what as in the Bible, some of them even driven bonkers in office <cough cough Nixon> knowing its contents.  In other words, bring it, SH.  You did it in Season 1, you can do it again in Season 3 Oh, and the reason why I suggest making Irving the one who is dazed and confused?  n my head I still see his character as the show’s tribute to Washington Irving.  At the end of the entire show, I want Irving sitting down at a computer writing “The Legend of Sleepy Hollow.”   

Just adding my wild and crazy ideas!  And SH could use some  wild and crazy ideas again.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

What do I think will happen? They will have to rescue Katrina every other episode till the end of time. What should happen? Everything but that. (Excuse me. I gave in to a moment of bitterness).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

MissAlmond, I could definitely go for your scenario.  They definitely need to detach Ichabod from Henry and Katrina and go with a Moloch induced alternate reality.  Using Irving would work well.  And I wish they'd implement it starting with the first of the remaining six epis of this season or season 2 will be a total wash for me.

Edited by Reese
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'd like to see an angel show up and fix everything. If we're going to have more of the "revelations' based crap, have the "good guys" show up and fix everything. This is getting tiresome.

Share this post


Link to post

Wow!  Just when I finally decided to join Previously TV to discuss SH, the”stan” has hit the fan.  I’m not surprised at the direction Season 2 has taken.  I remember Goffman’s comments during the hiatus and unlike many, I never believed he was being coy.  I thought he was telling the truth which made me wary.  It’s also clear now that the writers really didn’t know what made the show tick, somehow they believed if they could only explain Katrina, everybody would go along with them for the ride.  That some may be upset and losing it  on Twitter is probably due to shock.  My advice:  I concur with the suggestion of not making Henry Ichabod’s son.  That idea probably is great for a cliffhanger, but then what?  Unlike many, I wouldn’t even get rid of Katrina, make her a ghost again, whispering vague suggestions that make no sense. My scenario? Have Season 3 begin with Irving discussing the events of Season 2 with Abbie and Ichabod only for them to say they don’t know what he's talking about.  Irving gets up, looks out the door and it’s the police station, (Luke there’s too!).  While Irving is scratching his head over this, the mayor of Sleepy Hallow roars in wanting to know WTH Irving is up to, when suddenly we realized it’s Henry!  No, he’s not the son, he’s the mayor, he’s always been the mayor, he never loses an election no matter how many people claim to vote against him.  Why?  Because Moloch put him there.  As the season goes on, Irving continues to meet up with people who he sees as the person they were in Season 2, but they really aren’t.  Basically, a lot of things that happened in Season 2 really was Moloch messing with Irving’s mind.  The writers now have a fresh start without entirely losing Season 2 and they can keep their cast.  Katrina is back to being a ghost.   Headless can go back to being a Bad Ass.  They keep Henry and he’s still bad.  Hawley stays, give him a different back story, bring back Jenny, and restore the Ichabod/Abbie relationship.  Stop making everything personal to Ichabod and return it once again to whatever was written in Washington’s Bible (and have each succeeding president know what as in the Bible, some of them even driven bonkers in office <cough cough Nixon> knowing its contents.  In other words, bring it, SH.  You did it in Season 1, you can do it again in Season 3 Oh, and the reason why I suggest making Irving the one who is dazed and confused?  n my head I still see his character as the show’s tribute to Washington Irving.  At the end of the entire show, I want Irving sitting down at a computer writing “The Legend of Sleepy Hollow.”   

Just adding my wild and crazy ideas!  And SH could use some  wild and crazy ideas again.

Ha! Dallas-ing Sleepy Hollow... interesting idea...

I do think fans would revolt though - it's not fun to have an entire season erased - but I LOVE the idea of having Irving sitting down to write Sleepy Hollow... I kinda wonder if that might happen at the end - which makes me think neither witness will survive in the end... they'll just get sucked up to Heaven or something... leaving Irving to write what happened...

That would be super cool - the idea of Irving writing what happened at the very end...

I really like your ideas...

I'd like to see an angel show up and fix everything. If we're going to have more of the "revelations' based crap, have the "good guys" show up and fix everything. This is getting tiresome.

I agree - where are the angels? Also - I saw a couple of promos for Constantine and it has "danger of apocalypse" all over it. It looks TERRIFYING - that USED to be Sleepy Hollow... but this season feels so neutered.

I wonder if the show ever plans on going that route - with more angels/revelations level stuff?

Share this post


Link to post

^ Not while they're busy being "Cranes of Our Lives."  This family's serialized drama is obviously more important than a little ol' run of the mill apocalypse and world destruction.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Dallas-ed?  Ha!  Ha!  No, I don’t want Sleepy Hollow to go all “dream season”.  I just want portions of Season 2 plots to be part of Moloch’s plan to drive Frank mad.  SH is (or was LOL) a supernatural show so it should be easy to write that Moloch mixed up Frank’s mind with truth and lies.  Frank becomes a blessing and a curse to The Witnesses since some of what he knows is truth, some fiction.  The writers can  scrub what didn’t work and keep what did.  Heck, they can even use flashbacks, something Dallas wasn’t able to do because they wanted viewers to simply forget the previous season.  I want Frank to remember and his advice to bring confusion at times.  The reason why Moloch did that becomes clear at the end of the show.  Not that everybody else is dead at the end of the series, but that Frank’s role was always meant to be the scribe who wrote the story of how good triumphed over evil. 

 

The problem is I don’t think SH’s current producers/writers are imaginative enough to retool the show.  Strong writers understand that sometimes characters take on lives on their own and not the one the writer imagined them to be.  A smart writer retools and follows where the characters take them.  The writers on SH, OTOH, seem to want to continue to impose their will on their characters.  I think it’s  why they double down when things don’t go their way and only listen to people who think as they do.  It’s like, damn you characters you will do as I say.  It’s not working but they refuse to believe it.  Even the critic they reached out isn’t going to help them since apparently the biggest problem he sees is Hawley. Getting rid of that character was the advice offered.  No.  It’s deeper than that.

 

But SH most likely will be renewed for Season 3.  FOX has problems this year and for them, SH current bad ratings are okay.  From what I hear, there currently is nothing else there to replace the show, so a Season 3 there will be.  It’s Season 4 that’s in jeopardy and unless the writers immediately not only acknowledge but fix the problems of Season 3, the show is most likely doomed.  And sadly, I don’t see this current group of writers acknowledging and fixing anything.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry, me again.  I guess I just have to get these things off my chest LOL.

 

Two examples of what I’m talking about.  Frank tells Ichobod and Abbie that Brom has become the Horseman of Death, but due to love of Katrina, he’s a lovesick wimp.  The Witnesses approach Headless this way only to discover that yes, it is Brom, but he’s no wimp.  He means business and instead is our Headless of old.

 

Or when Frank sees Mayor Parrish, he tells Ichobod hey that’s your kid of which Icohbod looks at Frank sideways.  Frank thinks, okay, so I must have dreamt that too and just thinks of Henry as the obnoxious mayor of SH who Frank continues to have run ins with.  The truth is while Henry is indeed not the Crane’s son, he is the Horseman of War and he means business too.  

 

By doing this, the writers can use Frank in ways to get the show back on track.  But I doubt it will happen because the writers already believe the show is on track.  It’s just that some of us refuse to see their glorious vision.

Share this post


Link to post

Okay - now that kind of story I could get behind... especially the Headless being back and badass again... and Henry NOT being Ichabod's son...

And can Katrina die, please? Let's make her part of the dream too - she really DID die in the pilot after all.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah...It seems that all the "extra" episodes were used in this half of the season and the really should have had it 3 this fall and 2 next spring just in case they need more story telling berth and if there wasn't a need for the extra it could have been pure monster of the week to relieve tension between big stakes episodes or an episode where we find out tons about Jenny's travels, Reyes' backstory, Irving's family situation, etc. The pacing both from a narrative standpoint and in the show seems off in that it feels too much like in limbo. Deliverance and this episode really are the first ones with a believably permanent threat since the premiere. I heard someone say that when equating to the 13 episodes season, this is effectively the 4th episode because someone was complaining that, really, this episode should have happened far sooner. I agreed on both accounts. I feel like the writers used up all their bonus points earlier in the game than is wiser. I liked episodes 2-6 (I felt they were increasingly improving in quality as singular episodes) but they all really didn't feel like we were a step closer to anything on either team. Just got an idea and taking it to the speculations' thread.

My thought stemming from writing about this is that the writers made it so slow on purpose to really stir the pot when it comes to the witnesses. Obviously as viewers we don't like to see their friendship and partnership affected but one big win for team Evil here is that they have managed to create a divide between the Witnesses. Creating mistrust is one of the main specialities of War. Maybe the divide will become greater during the midseason finale and one of the themes for the back half of the season will be how TW becomes united again. They would be smartly banking on the fact that we like their bond and value it so we would be cheering for them and want to see how they find their way back to each other. It would also feel more honest from a writing standpoint because it would be addressing all those issues Abbie is brushing to the side for now as she tries to be supportive.

Edited by fantique
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I do find myself wondering as to why the show has chosen an episode title like Akeda that references the binding of Isaac by Abraham in obedience to God's demand that he sacrifice his son. Will Ichabod or Abraham be that father, who will be the son, Henry? or a metaphorical entity? Will there be an actual sacrifice or can the willingness to perform the act be sufficient? So far, Sleepy Hollow has treated Irving's story as a rough suggestion for the shows plots and relationships and has only been slightly less casual when conforming to Revelation. Going by that, are they telegraphing a much needed change in attitude by Ichabod or simply teasing us. (After all, they promised us that Katrina would be a compelling central character and so far she's just a dull, ineffectual stumbling block who drags everyone else down.) 

Edited by yuggapukka

Share this post


Link to post

Since I don't think Struggle Witch is going away, I want to give her a polar opposite identical twin/cousin a la Sabrina / Serena, and Jeannie /brunette Jeannie. Polar Katrina could just be effective and functional.

Share this post


Link to post

Since I don't think Struggle Witch is going away, I want to give her a polar opposite identical twin/cousin a la Sabrina / Serena, and Jeannie /brunette Jeannie. Polar Katrina could just be effective and functional.

How about we just kill Katrina off and focus attention on characters that people actually care about?

It's amazing to me how much effort is going into trying to make this character work - Hawley probably won't even make it past the winter finale and he was much better than Katrina - the writers just mismanaged him.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

A few things I'd like to see or see happen.

  • I'd like to find out what happened to Luke (please don't be dead).
  • The Hellfire Club apparently had a trial run for the making of demon babies. I'd like to find out what ever happened to that first demon baby they were working on before they handled Moloch.
  • I'd like Hawley to call Ichabod Bodie (hey, it's a whole lot better than Icky).
  • I want Ichabod to suffer some real culture shock.
  • Someone else has suggested this but I'd really like to see it. It turns out that Ichabod isn't a Witness after all. Jenny is the other one. This would take some wind out of his sometimes pretentious sails.

Yeah, I know that last one would throw a serious monkey wrench into the whole dynamic, but still.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

You know, I have this weird feeling about Monday...

 

Last season I used to always come up with crackpot theories on what would happen, and I would post them, just in case I was right (I was maybe 20% of the time! hee). For some reason I keep thinking that everything that has gone on this season is because they are still in Purgatory. Ichabod, Abbie, Katrina never left in the first place. It's all an elaborate ruse for some end game that Moloch and his minions need. Like we saw in the opening scene where they thought they lived an entire year. It's why we haven't had any backstory for Jenny and Irving. The only one in there is Jenny, who entered to try and rescue her sister, etc. It's why Katrina's powers are weak, it's why we've barely seen the town, why Ichabod is acting strange and why Abbie hasn't shot him yet for him acting strange and why demon after demon keeps showing up - because they are already in Purgatory.

 

I know it's not right, since we've seen scenes of other townspeople alone. And yes it's a crackpot theory. I know in my head that its the writers screwing up and damaging the show to boost up a character, but hey, I'll throw it in here for fun!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I'm going to predict that in tomorrow's finale, Ichabod will finally come around to killing Henry but wlll be stopped by Katrina and thus the Crane Family Drama will be extended into the remaining episodes next year as they continue to bicker back and forth about it.

Share this post


Link to post

Ugh! I bet you're right. Ichy will also continue flip-flopping about Katrina. One episode he'll whine about her lies, the next he'll tell everyone she's the best at everything ever. This "will they won't they" epic love story to end all epic love stories will go on until the show is canceled.

Share this post


Link to post

I think the show is going to hemorrhage viewers after "The Akeda."  I guess if there's no Katrina (or Katia), then there doesn't need to be a show with anyone else either.  So cancellation-ville it is, I guess unless FOX decides to fire his arrogant ass and restore the show to what made it popular in the first place.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, Indi, you fucking break my heart by saying this, but you are (partially) right. Crane will continue to flip flop through this fucking season, and he will (barely) be seen to consider her lies and I will have to endure this mess of bullshit...Goddamn.....

 

Remember when Crane was adorable and intelligent and nuanced and interesting and....

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, Indi, you fucking break my heart by saying this, but you are (partially) right. Crane will continue to flip flop through this fucking season, and he will (barely) be seen to consider her lies and I will have to endure this mess of bullshit...Goddamn.....

 

Remember when Crane was adorable and intelligent and nuanced and interesting and....

 

Unfortunately

Goffman confirmed this in a recent interview. Now it's the road to reconciliation between the Cranes, which only means more CFD.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think SH going to get another extended episode order.  That's important because I saw someone post on a board somewhere--can't remember--that FOX wanted to move away from limited season shows.  I don't know how true that is, or it it would immediately effect SH getting a renewal if the ratings fall to where I think they will be by season's end.

 

In any case, I can't watch Crane be destroyed any more than he already has been, or Abby's role as a lead character usurped by a minor character that should have been killed off twenty plus episodes ago.  I despise the calculated Ichabbie shipper baiting when the show obviously will never allow that relationship to organically evolve over time.  But what I do know is that it isn't what I what to see.  I also don't want to support the showrunners/writers who're are running this show (into the ground) as I believe I now have a very clear picture of who they are as people, the world they prefer and the fact that they want that preference represented on the show.  And the fans be damned. 

Edited by Reese
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I would like for the Cranes to realize that Henry killed Moloch not out of any goodness in his heart, not out of any redeemable kernel in his miserable soul, but because Papa Moloch hurt his feelings. His killing Moloch doesn't--or shouldn't--mean he loves his bio parents, but only that he hated Moloch in that moment. Alas, they will probably only coo endlessly about his innate goodness blah blah blah.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Unfortunately

Goffman confirmed this in a recent interview. Now it's the road to reconciliation between the Cranes, which only means more CFD.

I'm out.

I might bitch and moan about this crap for a while - but I am done with the show. Now I just want to hate watch twitter, tumblr and here and watch the ratings free fall with popcorn and wine.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

 

What do you think will happen? More focus on Katrina.

In our last episode of As Katrina Turns, our heroine spent the day shopping at Victoria's Secret and Sephora as she valiently tried to adjust to this strange new world.  She was blushingly befuddled as man after man proclaimed her the most beautious of all beauties. Ever.

 

And Abbie carried her bags.

Edited by DeLurker
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

This is more what should happen than what will happen.  As Moloch dies, the vines come loose and everyone is freed as Moloch's death robs Henry of most of his powers, including the ability to wield the Sword of Methuselah.  He weeps and his parents embrace him.  As much as they hate it, Abbie and Jenny realize there's no way to arrest him and they won't outright murder him. 

 

The merger with Purgatory still occurred and will ensure a good supply of weekly monsters, but they'll isolated, disorganized monsters without Moloch directing theme.  The pressure is off now, to some extent.  So what do the Witnesses to the Apocalypse do once the Apocalypse is over and there's just the mop up?  Abbie has to be a regular cop again.  Meanwhile, Jenny is tormented by vision of Frank Irving lost in some unknown place.  Hawley tries to help her by getting leads on possible useful artifacts.

 

Ichabod helps with the monsters, but with the "war" over, he wants to make a new life for himself and Katrina.  Using Hawley's documents, he gets a job teaching (what else) Revolutionary War History at the local college.  Katrina and Ichabod try to resume their lives, but Katrina has to spend a lot of time with Abraham.  Finally, to help Ichabod out, Hawley finds a spell to summon the Franklinstein and arm it with the Sword to destroy the Horseman of Death once and for all.

 

The monster comes to destroy Abraham, but Katrina resists, freeing Abraham who fights Franklinstein, seizes the Sword and cuts off its head.  Abraham reclaims his head and his full powr, then uses it to break the Sword of Methuselah, the only weapon that could truly kill him and leaves with Katrina willingly following him, having finally chosen the being she loves.  

 

Meanwhile, Hawley, Abbie and Jenny perform a ritual to free Frank Irving's soul and restore it to his corpse.  Unfortunately Frank is incarnated as the new Horseman of War.  Hawley, to Jenny's horror reveals himself to be the agent/vessel of Belial, who explains that he moved behind the scenes to help arrange for Moloch's destruction to make way for his own rule on Earth.  "It's gonna be a brand new day," he'll say.  "Come and see."  Then we fade out on the Rolling Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil."  End Season 2.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I would’ve liked to seen this show continue to base it premise on the Witnesses, the Bible and averting the Apocalypse.  In Season 1, they emphasized the battle would be for seven years, so it would’ve probably made sense to base each season on locating one of the Seven Seals and layering a monster of the week (or month) and character development, conflict, and evolving mythology on top of that.  I think I’m remembering it correctly…the opening of a seal prompts an event that leads to the final Apocalypse.  Four seals for each Horseman and the rest for some other pre-doom events.  Although I’m not sure what would be done with the seals once found.  Could they be destroyed without triggering another level of the Apocalypse?  Hidden away where humans and demons alike could never find them?  Anyhoo…there’s still time to correct this, right?  Henry opened the 2nd seal I believe, so there are five more out there.

 

But is seems that they are trying get away from the Bible and the Apocalypse...most likely Goffman’s way of negating the need for Witnesses, thus putting an end to the Abbie/Crane bond.  This way he can put Katrina front and center with Crane.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Abbie is Agent Cartered in Season 3.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

This is what should have happened this episode, regarding Frank's "death". I can think this up and write it out in 20 minutes, why can't these writers - who have massive amounts of time, do the same: This would be ALL they had to do, to make the episode still high stakes AND redeem Katrina.

 

The entire episode airs as is, until we get to the part with Frank getting stabbed. Just like in the episode, he stumbles toward the tree stump, and just like in the episode, Katrina and Ichabod run to his side. She puts her hands on the wound and starts chanting. Ichabod tells him to hold on.

 

Sad yet urgent music plays in the background. Ichabod puts his hands on Frank, who you can tell is fading. She continues chanting. Ichabod now yells out "Abbie!", and Abbie and Jenny rush to Irvings side. Katrina is still chanting, obviously struggling (as usual). Abbie and Jenny put their hands on Frank too, like in a faith healing. A bright white light starts to glow around his wound. Katrina continues her spell, the other's hands still on Frank. Ichabod and Abbie share a desperate look. The music swells, the urgency incrases, the light gets brighter and brighter until the screen is all light, and then...we see that Frank has been saved. He lives. The combined Witness and Witch and Jenny power worked together to save Frank.

 

Next scene in the church with who will carry the sword. They know Henry is coming for the sword. Jenny helps Irving to walk, and they go hide someone else in the church. The rest continues on as shown. DONE.

 

Frank lives. Katrina has a use and shows herself to actuall be powerful witch. Moloch is still defeated. That's it, done. FIN

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

But is seems that they are trying get away from the Bible and the Apocalypse...most likely Goffman’s way of negating the need for Witnesses, thus putting an end to the Abbie/Crane bond.  This way he can put Katrina front and center with Crane.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Abbie is Agent Cartered in Season 3.

EXACTLY!  I don't think Abby will die (although I absolutely think he'd kill Abbie off if he could get away with it), but as a last resort he's settled for separating her from Crane as much as possible and diminishing her role.  He's also compromising his other lead character.  He doesn't realize or care that Crane's popularity is tied to Abbie because we see him, this man out of time, through her eyes and their relationship.  The more he's separated from her, and the more shady he is with her, the less likeable he is.  In other words, he's "Katrina's Crane."  That's not the outcome the show should be striving for since she's a largely unpopular character.

 

In any case, I think Goffman's going to come up against the network which isn't going to allow much more marginalization of Abbie outside of the shows that have already been shot.  The ratings are falling, and the #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter hashtag on twitter has focused a huge spotlight on show's unfair treatment of this popular character this season.  If he proves too intractable in his Katrina worship (and the misuse of other well-liked characters), either he's going to be fired or the show cancelled. 

Edited by Reese
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

What TPTB need to do for the second half of the season is revise the scripts of all upcoming episodes and heavily edit those that are already filmed. No more Mrs Crane episodes. NONE.  Any episodes in which she has to be present need to be revised so that her part is the B-storyline. Any episodes in which her presence is not required  need to have her absent and not be written around her absence. No conversations about her. Henry needs to be diminished, have him try to be the next big-bad and be rapidly supplanted. I really don't care what happens to him, as long he is either gone or only occasionaly present. If he is ever truly redeemed, have it be a dying act after clearly betraying his family once again or make him be Abraham's son. The burgundy-tressed damsel lies constantly. Make his paternity be one more of her deceptions.

 

Most of all the show needs to get back to creating it's own world, instead of having it be a fairly static back-drop to vanquishing a weekly monster. When it comes to the main antagonist, DO NOT SHOW THE MONSTER. Moloch was terrifying last season when we caught occasional blurry glimpses of it and there was no yammering on about dastardly plans.

 

More than anything, make Abbie And Ichabod once again be partners who value and trust each other instead of partners who are stuck with one another.

Edited by yuggapukka
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

What TPTB need to do for the second half of the season is revise the scripts of all upcoming episodes and heavily edit those that are already filmed. No more Mrs Crane episodes. NONE.  Any episodes in which she has to be present need to be revised so that her part is the B-storyline. Any episodes in which her presence is not required  need to have her absent and not be written around her absence. No conversations about her. Henry needs to be diminished, have him try to be the next big-bad and be rapidly supplanted. I really don't care what happens to him, as long he is either gone or only occasionaly present. If he is ever truly redeemed, have it be a dying act after clearly betraying his family once again or make him be Abraham's son. The burgundy-tressed damsel lies constantly. Make his paternity be one more of her deceptions.

 

Most of all the show needs to get back to creating it's own world, instead of having it be a fairly static back-drop to vanquishing a weekly monster. When it comes to the main antagonist, DO NOT SHOW THE MONSTER. Moloch was terrifying last season when we caught occasional blurry glimpses of it and there was no yammering on about dastardly plans.

 

More than anything, make Abbie And Ichabod once again be partners who value and trust each other instead of partners who are stuck with one another.

YES! This!

Any speculation/would/should storyline that involves Katrina as the "lead" or as being shown more than Irving was in the nearly every episode this season (he wasn't shown hardly at all) need to be SCRAPPED. Period. No more backstory (we don't care). No more explanation of her lies (we don't care). No more Katrina. She needs to be killed off. Period. And not in Purgatory - DEAD. No ghost, no nothing. She's simply GONE. Bonus points if Henry is responsible so that Ichabod finally accepts his role as a Witness and realizes Henry cannot be saved - and that he doesn't even want to be.

No more Crane Family Drama.

Abraham goes back to being Headless because the object of his desire is dead - and then let him blame Ichabod so the hate is still there - but never let them mention Katrina again - just let them hate each other.

More backstory on Abbie - why is she a Witness? Why is CRANE a Witness? Why not Jenny and Abbie? Is Jennie a witch? If Goffman wants to explore other character backstories, then he can explore if Jenny is a witch and let her grow in that.

Also - do Witnesses have powers? Biblically they are supposed to - so let's see some powers! And if they don't have any - at least let someone make a joke about "Ain't ya'll supposed to be able to breathe fire or something?"

Put some FUN back into this show - bring back the whacky!

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

I would like for the Cranes to realize that Henry killed Moloch not out of any goodness in his heart, not out of any redeemable kernel in his miserable soul, but because Papa Moloch hurt his feelings. His killing Moloch doesn't--or shouldn't--mean he loves his bio parents, but only that he hated Moloch in that moment. 

 

I don't think that's going to  happen.  My wife thinks that Henry is indeed redeemed, that he realizes that Mommy and Daddy love him.  And she's probably closer to the average non-obsessed viewer (Hi! I'm Jeff and I'm a forumholic!) than we are.

Share this post


Link to post

Henry clearly had a hissy fit and that's the main reason he killed Moloch. I'm sure Katrina will be too stupid to understand this, but I have the tiniest hope Ichabod will know they weren't saved because they tugged on Henry's heartstrings.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think they should find a way to bring back Andy Brooks and Irving.  We already know Andy is undead and has had a lot of transformations, even if he is "dead dead" he could appear as a ghost somehow.  And with Selfie being cancelled, John Cho may have some availability.    As for Irving, I think there is some wiggle room with his soul being taken.  Or at least I wouldn't have trouble hand-waving that.

 

As for the Apocalypse, I think it's only been stalled or set back a little.  Even if Moloch is truly gone, I expect someone or something else to fill the void,  Maybe even Henry as others have speculated.

Share this post


Link to post

OK, I've been thinking about this for quite awhile. I think most of my opinions regarding the show are held by most of the commentors here and likely by most of the viewers of the show, (Katrina is bad, The "Bad's" aren't evil enough, Abbie is minimized and Ichabod is now douchey) there is one area, however, that hasn't been emphasized that I will now. ;)

MUSIC!!!!!! Yes the soundtrack is fine, but I really think incorporating other music into the show could really emphasize  and give added impact to certain scenes.  The use of the "Stones" Sympathy for the Devil last year was a great touch and made the Pilot and Finale far more epic to me. I've been catching up on Fringe lately and they freely used popular music. I just watched the first episode of season 5 of Fringe and they used one of my favorite songs by "Yaz" --Only You to great effect.

So my point is that using great music in important moments would be a wonderful way to maximize the emotional impact of the show

Anyone have any favorite songs they would like to see on SH? I'd love to see "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd in a particularly dramatic moment. The show would have to earn the right to use that by the way. The off-hand death of Irving in Akeda wan't worthy of that song. (Not that Irving wasn't worthy of it BTW)

ETA: Would love to hear "It's the End of the World as We Know It" or "Man on the Moon" by REM or perhaps A David Bowie song---"Space Oddity" or "Ashes to Ashes" could be used well...

Share this post


Link to post

I just want Crane to sing something from an English band - preferably NOT a recent band (no One Direction or whatever they are please). Give me some classic Brit bands, just something good.

 

For a song that Crane should sing to Abbie, as he needs beg her forgiveness for being him and making poor decisions... Adam Ant's "Wonderful"

 

An awesome yet mournful song to sing to Abbie - The Cure's "Plainsong".

 

Always thought that the lyrics of Duran Duran's "Ordinary World" match perfectly with Crane's situation.

 

Velvet Undergrounds "Pale Blue Eyes" - which would be Abbie to Crane, the lyrics are perfect.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I like the music suggestions. I do appreciate it when TV uses songs with lyrics that underline the atmosphere. Just as long as they nevah, evah(!) use CCR's "Bad Moon Rising".

 

I enjoy it most when they stay away from broadly mainstream choices, I prefer it when TV or movies introduce me to something new or use something that's less well known, it has a bit more dimension than something I've heard before in many contexts. I still remember how incredibly effective it was when The X-Files used Nick Cave's "Red Right Hand" when Scully was kidnapped in season 2. It really amped up the creepiness of that scene. 

Edited by yuggapukka
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size