S01.E05: Part 5

[Drogo]

On the day of the escape, Matt and Sweat know the smallest mistake can derail their whole plan, but when a stern corrections officer takes over the post in the tailor shop and fellow inmate Murder gets out of the Special Housing Unit, Matt seems attracted to the danger. Tilly and Lyle have a fateful dinner at an all-you-can-eat Chinese restaurant.

[leighdear]

Wow, Patricia A is making certain that Tilly has absolutely NO redeeming qualities whatsoever.  To actively hate a character makes no sense, but Patricia is making me despise that woman SO much!  *LOL*

Sweat was right to just walk, not lurk like they were guilty of something.  But walking right in the middle of a residential street came off as kind of dumb.  There's being subtle, and there's being stupid.  

They spent a little too much time in the beginning with Sweat getting to the manhole, but I was right with him when he popped his head out.  Freedom!  I actually wanted him to climb out & go right then.

Edited December 16, 2018 by leighdear

[meira.hand]

30 minutes ago, leighdear said:

They spent a little too much time in the beginning with Sweat getting to the manhole, but I was right with him when he popped his head out. 

At first I became a little impatient as well, but then I realized that this was the only time you understand just how complex and long the route actually was and that this was quite amazing.

[sadie]

4 hours ago, leighdear said:

Wow, Patricia A is making certain that Tilly has absolutely NO redeeming qualities whatsoever.  To actively hate a character makes no sense, but Patricia is making me despise that woman SO much!  *LOL*

You took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly what I was thinking while watching. Tilly has to be the most reprehensible character I’ve seen in a long time. I assume these hardened criminals could not have been surprised when they picked an emotionally stunted, mentally challenged needy woman to “help” in their escape that she would collapse when the time came. Interesting that Sweat is the level headed one where you would have thought Matt would be the more cool under pressure. I was on the edge of my seat this whole episode. I can’t wait to see what happens now and really want to see more of that interrogator grilling the truth out of her. 

[movingtargetgal]

9 hours ago, sadie said:

Wow, Patricia A is making certain that Tilly has absolutely NO redeeming qualities whatsoever.  To actively hate a character makes no sense, but Patricia is making me despise that woman SO much!  *LOL*

Tilley is a real person who did horrible things that endangered countless people.  Matt and Sweat were two BRUTAL MURDERERS and she saw to it that they escaped.  She is lucky that these two did not kill anyone during their escape or she could be facing life in prison.  I don't have a problem hating her. :)   Tilley was sentenced to 7 years in prison.  So far she has been denied parole each time she has gone before the board.  I hope she does the entire 7 years.

[CynicalGirl]

^ And her actions cost the State of New York $20+ million dollars for the manhunt. I watched part of the documentary on Oxygen today with an interview with the real Tilley, and I didn't see any redeeming qualities.  I think Patricia is portraying her just right. 

[movingtargetgal]

Mr.  Moving and I also saw the documentary last night.  Tilley came across as a dimwitted yet cunning sociopath.  She was emotionally flat and only has any real emotion when she is crying for herself and her murdering lovers.  She was not helpless in this situation.  At any point, all she had to do was tell prison officials what had been going on and they could have been stopped.  She chickened out in the end because she realized that once she met them at the manhole cover, they would no longer need her and would probably kill her.  I think her "panic attack" was a way to get admitted into the hospital.  While she stayed safe in her hospital bed she sent her husband home where she thought two escaped murderers may be waiting for him.  Tilley's first priority was to cover her ass.  She did not care about anyone not her husband, her son or any innocent people that crossed the escapees' path.  Tilley is only capable of caring about herself, her wants and her needs.  She is a sociopath.

[Quilt Fairy]

15 hours ago, meira.hand said:

At first I became a little impatient as well, but then I realized that this was the only time you understand just how complex and long the route actually was and that this was quite amazing.

But they covered Sweat's rehearsal at the expense of seeing him and Matt during the real escape, where Matt got stuck in the steam pipe and Sweat had to throw him a sheet and pull him out.  I remember another documentary on the escape (not the one on Oxygen last night) where they spent time explaining every part of the escape route.

[Armchair Critic]

Get yourself a man who wants to take you out for Chinese and then Dairy Queen for dessert.

[kicksave]

23 hours ago, sadie said:

You took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly what I was thinking while watching. Tilly has to be the most reprehensible character I’ve seen in a long time. I assume these hardened criminals could not have been surprised when they picked an emotionally stunted, mentally challenged needy woman to “help” in their escape that she would collapse when the time came. Interesting that Sweat is the level headed one where you would have thought Matt would be the more cool under pressure. I was on the edge of my seat this whole episode. I can’t wait to see what happens now and really want to see more of that interrogator grilling the truth out of her. 

Tilly is an unlovable wretch...her treatment of her husband borders on abuse. Throwing the donut at him with such disdain along with the way she speaks to him and treats him is abominable. The fact that she got cold feet at the end doesn't surprise me...she's basically a coward except when she is emotionally beating up on her husband.

The dynamic between Sweat and Matt is switching now...Matt was in control and the leader when they were in prison but now that they are out Sweat is in control...Matt is uncertain, nervous, skittish. Matt is used to being in a controlled environment where he has some sort of status as a "boss"...now it's gone...he's dependent on Sweat who has the outdoorsman experience and know how to survive for a period of time. Sweat isn't freaking out about what to do and has the knowledge about the current technology to nix the idea of stealing a car. Matt is out of step and out of touch with what's going on with the world outside of prison...Sweat is younger and more in tune with the outside world. Matt is out of shape and Sweat is in good shape...this will be a huge division for them as they continue on. 

Benecio Del Torro is excellent as a cunning sociopath and Paul Dano is also excellent as his quiet stealth partner. All the acting is outstanding. I also thought the digging out scenes with Sweat laboring in a dark, hot and at times suffocatingly difficult environment were very well done. Clearly, Sweat had some awesome engineering skills...too bad he couldn't have utilized them to get a degree in engineering and have a normal, productive life instead of the one he ultimately chose.

Edited December 17, 2018 by kicksave

[BeatrixK]

Arquette is seriously showing herself to be on another level with Tilly.  I seriously hope, come Emmy Time, she isn't forgotten with this being so 'early' in the Emmy year...because she is just killing it with each episode.

[atlantaloves]

HELP! Why is Del Torro's character called Chainsaw? Did he kill someone with a chainsaw? I love this series even though it is hard to watch, I'm going to watch the Oxygen documentary right now. Thanks guys. 

[Guest]

Tilly, Tilly, Tilly...you got yourself wrapped up in a generic fantasy involving two quarantined bad boys who let you live out your previously stifled sexual desires and pretend, even for the shortest of times, that you were someone who was desired and desirable—as you saw (episodes ago) with the two beautiful women being escorted from a bar by a suave gentleman. And then, when the rubber was about to hit the road, and that fantasy life was about to be made real on the outside, whatever you had left of a conscience kicked into overdrive and you snapped back into the hard, cold reality of your life—a quiet comfort with a regular man who loved and cared about you but who couldn't provide any "excitement" to your own dreary daily existence. 

I don't know if Tilly was stunted by her intellect, her job, her town, her own ordinary looks, or if it was a combination of all of those things. I think she was looking for way out of all of it—in the same way that Matt and Sweat were looking for a way out of their own particular prison. That she couldn't commit to the final act is a testament to her own cowardice at not fixing the things she hated about her own life because she didn't want to do the hard work to change the circumstances of her reality. 

To me, she is both a loathsome and pitiable human. 

Patricia Arquette is just a complete marvel. I can't get over how this series is such a tour de force of her skills. 

[atlantaloves]

Oh man oh man, I hope she wins an Emmy.  She is fantastic in this part. I really hate her guts. I kinda wanted her to die of a heart attack but knew that this did not happen. What a wonderful actress! 

[Drogo]

10 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

HELP! Why is Del Torro's character called Chainsaw? Did he kill someone with a chainsaw? I love this series even though it is hard to watch, I'm going to watch the Oxygen documentary right now. Thanks guys. 

Hacksaw, because IRL 

Spoiler

after he tortured and killed his victim, he dismembered him with a hacksaw and threw him into a river.

 

16 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

Matt and Sweat were two BRUTAL MURDERERS

Just pointing out the bold.  The show seems happy to let us think only Richard Matt is a scary guy.  Sweat is also scum of the earth. 

[atlantaloves]

Okay, so he is called Hacksaw...but why? Inquiring minds need to know, or do they tell you in this series? I fast forward through a lot of it and may have missed why he is called this.  Thanks folks! 

[leighdear]

16 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

 I think her "panic attack" was a way to get admitted into the hospital.  While she stayed safe in her hospital bed she sent her husband home where she thought two escaped murderers may be waiting for him.  Tilley's first priority was to cover her ass.  

I thought it was all faked too, so she didn't have to go home with Lyle and could sneak away to meet the guys.  But then she wouldn't have had a car, and I thought she had to be able to drive them away, so figured the panic attack had to be real after all.

I had read no stories or interviews or anything about this whole thing, so all of the facts of the case are new to me.  Absolutely fascinating and horrifying at the same time.   

And to think it was brought to the screen by Derek Zoolander.  *LOL*   Serious respect for Mr. Stiller, he knows how to craft a edge-of-your-seat show. 

[Drogo]

21 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Okay, so he is called Hacksaw...but why? Inquiring minds need to know, or do they tell you in this series? I fast forward through a lot of it and may have missed why he is called this.  Thanks folks! 

Click on the "Reveal Hidden Content" in my last post. 

[Armchair Critic]

The thing about Sweat being better than Matt on the outside

Spoiler

Maybe he was. But I was wondering if they are getting the story from him since he is the one who survived, that he may have painted a more flattering version of himself where he was smarter and tougher than Matt.

[tennisgurl]

Patricia A. really is putting in one amazing performance, I am utterly fascinated by her in every scene. In some moments, its possible to pity Tilly for how lonely and unfulfilled she is, with her dowdy sweaters and a life where the most exciting thing that happens to her is getting a Margarita at a local chain restaurant. However, the show never forgets that this is a horrible, selfish person who willingly endangered innocent people by letting two murders out of prison, is verbally abusive and cruel to her poor husband who is desperate for some tenderness from her, and only cares about herself and her own needs over her job, or the public good. If she wanted to improve her life, she could. But instead, she supports her two murder boyfriends and allows them to escape, and then totally freaks out when she actually has to commit to the plan. I think her panic attack was real, because what she was doing was finally real, and not just her little work bad boy fantasy come to life. She is a coward at her core from everything we have seen, so when it actually came to action, she lost it. 

Tilly could very well be a sociopath, just not the kind of sociopath that we normally see in the media, like the Hannibal Lecture types who are diabolical criminal masterminds. Some sociopaths lack empathy for people, but are not all that intelligent or ambitious, and lack basic social skills, due to their lack of understanding of human reactions. Those kinds of people normally work low level jobs (some times close to law enforcement) and have seemingly normal lives, just they dont have any real interest in other people, and dont understand them beyond what they fulfill in the slots that society has filled for them (spouse, friend, side piece, etc), and they often some off as rather...off in a way thats hard to define for people in their lives. Or maybe Tilly is just a garden variety selfish asshole. 

Watching Sweat working on the pipes and digging is time consuming as a viewer, but I think its important to see just how long this takes, and what kind of undertaking this really was. It also leads to a lot of tension, even though we already know how this goes. Or, you can find out with a quick internet search. 

The constant 2014/2015 pop songs somehow just makes everything even more bleak. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

The James Bond/Jason Bourne/Jack Bauer action music when Sweat was doing his test run underground was funny to me.

Mexican beer in a Chinese restaurant. Sounds like the makings of a cute C&W song.

Quote

Serious respect for Mr. Stiller, he knows how to craft a edge-of-your-seat show. 

Who knew Ben Stiller had it in him? I predict he's going to be big in the true crime dramatization genre if that's where he decides to go after the Emmys rain down upon this production.

[WendyM]

16 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

The thing about Sweat being better than Matt on the outside

  Hide contents

Maybe he was. But I was wondering if they are getting the story from him since he is the one who survived, that he may have painted a more flattering version of himself where he was smarter and tougher than Matt.

That's what I was thinking, too. Though from what I remember from press at the time:

Spoiler

Matt was drunk when he was captured/killed--as in over-the-legal-limit. That's just stupid when you're in the middle of a manhunt.

[Quilt Fairy]

44 minutes ago, WendyM said:

That's what I was thinking, too. Though from what I remember from press at the time:

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, we've seen that Matt does like his liquor.  Even the prison guard was coming to his cell for a nip.  And I'm pretty sure the "latte" that someone brought him a few episodes ago probably had more pruno in it than caramel.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Quilt Fairy

[CynicalGirl]

Yeah, getting drunk was definitely not the best choice, but after all that work and planning, it's also a bit unbelievable that they had no Plan B whatsoever. They really thought they had such control over Tilley that there was no way she wasn't showing up? Seems to me that Tilley wasn't the only delusional one here. 

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 12:16 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

But they covered Sweat's rehearsal at the expense of seeing him and Matt during the real escape, where Matt got stuck in the steam pipe and Sweat had to throw him a sheet and pull him out.  I remember another documentary on the escape (not the one on Oxygen last night) where they spent time explaining every part of the escape route.

I've just rewatched this ep and I need to correct my earlier post.  It turns out they did show at least some of the escape, including Matt getting stuck in the pipe and Sweat pulling him out, it's just in a handful of short blink-and-you'll-miss-it scenes intercut with Tilly at the hospital.  I find Tilly so repulsive I don't pay close attention when she's on the screen.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Quilt Fairy

[LoveLeigh]

The slight consideration they gave to going back when Tilly did not show up was totally insane. They did not know why she did not show up and she could have been home thinking about going to the police in the morning. 

So if they went back, by morning they could have been totally busted and never had another chance to escape. 

[Sarcastico]

Quote

it's also a bit unbelievable that they had no Plan B whatsoever.

They barely had a Plan A.  It's surprising to me that Matt didn't tell Sweat how deeply Tilly was involved until Sweat was about halfway though tunnelling. And then he was doubtful about her as, indeed, he should have been. 

[chick binewski]

On 12/17/2018 at 9:03 PM, Armchair Critic said:

The thing about Sweat being better than Matt on the outside

  Reveal hidden contents

Maybe he was. But I was wondering if they are getting the story from him since he is the one who survived, that he may have painted a more flattering version of himself where he was smarter and tougher than Matt.

This is a good point and something that's bothered me since the start of the show. I'm seeing Sweat portrayed as someone very reticent, whose crime was more of a 'wrong place, wrong time' thing than the murder of a deputy. Dano has made Sweat increasingly more compelling to watch as he focuses on the tunnel and becomes more sure of himself. To me, up until this episode Del Toro has been the center of the show - smoothly transitioning from confidante to friend to menace. That he completely unravels the minute he sticks his head out of the pothole seemed a little off.

I have no problem believing David Sweat bounced from embellishment to outright lies during his interviews, but damn that guy liked to TALK. I guess it's my belief that IRL Matt was not as smooth an operator as we see on the show (although from most accounts he was quite the con man), and that Sweat was quite a bit more aggressive than he's shown here. I've been curious what everyone else thinks regarding this as well.

[CynicalGirl]

On 12/20/2018 at 4:01 PM, Sarcastico said:

They barely had a Plan A.  It's surprising to me that Matt didn't tell Sweat how deeply Tilly was involved until Sweat was about halfway though tunnelling. And then he was doubtful about her as, indeed, he should have been. 

 

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

This is a good point and something that's bothered me since the start of the show. I'm seeing Sweat portrayed as someone very reticent, whose crime was more of a 'wrong place, wrong time' thing than the murder of a deputy. Dano has made Sweat increasingly more compelling to watch as he focuses on the tunnel and becomes more sure of himself. To me, up until this episode Del Toro has been the center of the show - smoothly transitioning from confidante to friend to menace. That he completely unravels the minute he sticks his head out of the pothole seemed a little off.

I have no problem believing David Sweat bounced from embellishment to outright lies during his interviews, but damn that guy liked to TALK. I guess it's my belief that IRL Matt was not as smooth an operator as we see on the show (although from most accounts he was quite the con man), and that Sweat was quite a bit more aggressive than he's shown here. I've been curious what everyone else thinks regarding this as well.

Bottom line, neither of these guys were an Andy DuFrane. He was a man with a plan, and got out all on his own, not dependent on anyone but himself! He didn't need no help from the outside/inside!

Re Matt, he may have been a BMOC (big man on campus) in prison, but like the other Shawshank guys, he was "institutionalized" and didn't know how to survive on the outside.

Spoiler

Sweat didn't last much longer and was just lucky his gunshot wounds weren't fatal.

He can brag all he wants now, but the escape was a big fat fail. They spent all that time whittling their way out, with no real thought what to do once they stuck their heads out of that manhole cover. They were as delusional as Tilley, thinking she was so dickmatized that she would be there for them. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Drogo
Added spoiler tags.

[Thalia]

I finally watched last night.  From this point forward, my new catchphrase shall be "I don't want to die in a Chinese restaurant."  

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:27 PM, movingtargetgal said:

Tilley is a real person who did horrible things that endangered countless people.  Matt and Sweat were two BRUTAL MURDERERS and she saw to it that they escaped.  She is lucky that these two did not kill anyone during their escape or she could be facing life in prison.  I don't have a problem hating her. :)   Tilley was sentenced to 7 years in prison.  So far she has been denied parole each time she has gone before the board.  I hope she does the entire 7 years.

She really is an awful person and still shows absolutely NO remorse.  She actually tried to say Sweat and Matt threatened to kill Lyle if she didn't help them escape which makes zero sense whatsoever.  She's definitely a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

[Cheezwiz]

On 12/17/2018 at 2:49 PM, leighdear said:

thought it was all faked too, so she didn't have to go home with Lyle and could sneak away to meet the guys.  But then she wouldn't have had a car, and I thought she had to be able to drive them away, so figured the panic attack had to be real after all.

I had read no stories or interviews or anything about this whole thing, so all of the facts of the case are new to me.  Absolutely fascinating and horrifying at the same time.   

And to think it was brought to the screen by Derek Zoolander.  *LOL*   Serious respect for Mr. Stiller, he knows how to craft a edge-of-your-seat show. 

Same! Same! Same! I also thought the panic attack was possibly a new ruse she was carrying out because of missing the opportunity to drug Lyle's beverage. But instead, being the selfish dimwit she is, she was really just wimping out.

Everything in the show is new to me as well, so I'm sure I'll be diving down some research rabbit holes once I've watched all the eps. And Ben Stiller? Who knew? Seriously, well done, Ben!

The beginning sequence was mind-boggling. I honestly don't know how they managed to continually explore the nether regions of the prison and find their way back to their cells each time. I would have been hopelessly permanently lost down there. And the scene at the beginning where Sweat finally opens the manhole cover on his trial-run was amazing. How he had the self-discipline at that point to return to his cell, I'll never know. Considering he did ALL the work, I was actually rooting for him to leave Matt behind and just bolt.