X-Men Franchise

[CMH1981]

 

DOFP The Rogue Cut: I forgot to ask regarding the scene Charles et al. visit Quicksilver.  Did the Mom tell the little girl to go upstairs to her sister?  Am I assuming that there are two sisters?  Maybe the Scarlet Witch and Polaris?  I haven't had a chance to re-watch the Rogue cut.

 

I read somewhere that the sister upstairs is supposed to be Wanda/Scarlet Witch and the little sister in Pietro's lap is Lorna/Polaris.  

[spaulding]

Didn't the timeline change? So characters can pop up earlier now than they did before (ie. Nightcrawler, Angel). Plus, Apocalypse wasn't awakened in the original timeline. So all bets are off now, I think.

 

That's what I was thinking.  XMen 3 is definitely gone.  But the time traveling had to have changed the events from XMen 1 and 2 as well.

[JBC344]

Generally asking here.  Wouldn't that make it different or alternate "realities" as opposed to timelines?  I thought a timeline wouldn't change someone's age but would change the direction of their life, as opposed to alternate reality where everyone still exists but are completely different people.  For example, the Star Trek reboot is based on them being in an alternate timeline, where one event changed their supposed future and sent them into a different future.

 

Maybe I am just mixing different theories up.  Regardless I don't exactly mind that there isn't perfect cohesion between all the movies. 

[SeanC]

I read somewhere that the sister upstairs is supposed to be Wanda/Scarlet Witch and the little sister in Pietro's lap is Lorna/Polaris.  

Singer said the little sister wasn't meant to be anybody.

[CMH1981]

Yet, Singer had the littler girl dressed in a gypsy-esque/princess costume?

 

I really want someone other than Singer to try their hand at the X-Universe franchise...a complete reboot in a few years after this movie, but I know it's just a dream.

[SeanC]

That dress didn't look anything like what Wanda wears.

[benteen]

About Apocalypse height, maybe they make him look taller after post-production.  I agree though, he HAS to be physically taller than those around him.  That's part of his very presence.

[CMH1981]

 

That dress didn't look anything like what Wanda wears.

 

It looked like a gypsy-esque dress w/ the poofy sleeves and the gold fringe.  I took it as a wink/nod to Wanda and Pietro being raised by gypsies in the comics after their mother died w/o Magneto knowing about their existence but has now been retconned that only Lorna is his true child.  

Edited July 17, 2015 by CMH1981

[benteen]

Yet, Singer had the littler girl dressed in a gypsy-esque/princess costume?

 

I really want someone other than Singer to try their hand at the X-Universe franchise...a complete reboot in a few years after this movie, but I know it's just a dream.

 

If I had an issue with Singer, he's not strong at action sequences and "grounds" the X-Men a little too much.  For instance, I don't think he'd ever consider doing an X-Men in space movie, something that was always good in the comics.

Edited July 18, 2015 by benteen

[stealinghome]

I just don't think Singer fully gets the X-Men at the end of the day. He gets the basic general concept (mutants=oppressed minority population) well enough, and he's generally solid on Professor X and Magneto and their different approaches to persecution. But he really doesn't get any of the characters that aren't named Erik or Charles (his Wolverine is okay but not great); women; or the fact that the X-Men are popular because they're a team with team dynamics, not Wolverine and a bunch of randos. The best way for me to describe how I think about it is that he's almost like a fanfiction author who writes a story set in someone else's fictional world but populates it entirely with original characters--98% of the X-movie characters bear little to no resemblance to their comic counterparts, he just slapped familiar names on made-up characters so X-fans would go see the movies.

 

I would like to see the X-franchise be turned over to someone who adores the '80s X-Men and gets why those comics were popular. Someone who understands the characters and major storylines and understands why they really resonated with readers. Also someone who understands that the X-ladies are way cooler than the X-dudes.

[benteen]

I agree, he doesn't have a great grasp of the X-women at all.

[Jeebus Cripes]

I just don't think Singer fully gets the X-Men at the end of the day. He gets the basic general concept (mutants=oppressed minority population) well enough, and he's generally solid on Professor X and Magneto and their different approaches to persecution. But he really doesn't get any of the characters that aren't named Erik or Charles (his Wolverine is okay but not great); women; or the fact that the X-Men are popular because they're a team with team dynamics, not Wolverine and a bunch of randos. The best way for me to describe how I think about it is that he's almost like a fanfiction author who writes a story set in someone else's fictional world but populates it entirely with original characters--98% of the X-movie characters bear little to no resemblance to their comic counterparts, he just slapped familiar names on made-up characters so X-fans would go see the movies.

 

I would like to see the X-franchise be turned over to someone who adores the '80s X-Men and gets why those comics were popular. Someone who understands the characters and major storylines and understands why they really resonated with readers. Also someone who understands that the X-ladies are way cooler than the X-dudes.

 

WORD! I wish I could like this post a thousand times over.

[SeanC]

There are certainly some characters who are very different (Rogue, Iceman, Mystique), but I think most of the characters who get any degree of real characterization are pretty similar to the comics.  It's more a question of character focus, and certainly, Singer's first two movies didn't have much focus on the team (though I think they're both very good movies).  The new sequence of films that began with First Class are really delivering more of what I want in terms of X-Men films, and I'm excited to see the new kids join in Apocalypse.

[nobodyyoucare]

Lets face a number of the x-men costumes would not look good on film. Yellow spandex looks ridiculous. You sometimes have to do changes to the look and even character background when doing an adaptation. 

[CMH1981]

 

Singer's first two movies didn't have much focus on the team (though I think they're both very good movies).  The new sequence of films that began with First Class are really delivering more of what I want in terms of X-Men films, and I'm excited to see the new kids join in Apocalypse.

 

I don't hold much hope for Apocalypse to be honest.  I agree First Class was great b/c it did focus on the team aspect, but in DoFP we went back to Singer allowing his hard on for Wolverine take over again, just like the first two films.  I don't know if Wolverine is going to be in Apocalypse other than a cameo, but I wouldn't be surprised if his part in the film isn't being talked about much b/c this would be Jackman's last X-Men film, other than his last Wolverine film after this.

[ribboninthesky1]

There's ANOTHER Wolverine film coming up? Good for Hugh Jackman, who seems like a nice, hard-working guy, but what the fuck else is there to tell about Wolverine? 

[Craphole Island]

I love Hugh Jackman and his portrayal of Wolverine, but yeah I was sick of the Wolverine show because I'm all about the team aspect and ensemble (it's why I never saw his solo films). With that said, I didn't think he hogged the screen in DOFP. I thought his role was just right. I know it was supposed to be Kitty in his spot, but I didn't mind the change.

[SeanC]

Lets face a number of the x-men costumes would not look good on film. Yellow spandex looks ridiculous. You sometimes have to do changes to the look and even character background when doing an adaptation. 

Some are obviously more adaptable than others.  I have a hard time imaging that Wolverine's classic costume would ever work on film, I agree.

 

I don't hold much hope for Apocalypse to be honest.  I agree First Class was great b/c it did focus on the team aspect, but in DoFP we went back to Singer allowing his hard on for Wolverine take over again, just like the first two films.  I don't know if Wolverine is going to be in Apocalypse other than a cameo, but I wouldn't be surprised if his part in the film isn't being talked about much b/c this would be Jackman's last X-Men film, other than his last Wolverine film after this.

Jackman hasn't been in Montreal at all so far.  Regardless, Wolverine had a prominent part in DOFP, but he hardly dominated it.  He was one of several major characters, along with Professor X, Mystique and Magneto, and those three were the ones the climax revolved around.

Edited July 19, 2015 by SeanC

[CMH1981]

 

There's ANOTHER Wolverine film coming up? Good for Hugh Jackman, who seems like a nice, hard-working guy, but what the fuck else is there to tell about Wolverine?

 

 

From what I heard this movie is basically a take on the comic book Old-Man Logan.  

 

The basic gist of that comic story is it is set in the future and Logan is still alive and hasn't used his claws in years, b/c he was fooled into murdering a bunch of super villains one night, but instead he actually murdered all his friends/X-Men.

In the comic, it was Mysterio who created that illusion, but i'm guessing for the film it will be Mesmero.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man_Logan

[stealinghome]

There are certainly some characters who are very different (Rogue, Iceman, Mystique), but I think most of the characters who get any degree of real characterization are pretty similar to the comics.

I can't agree with this. I think Singer gets Professor X and Magneto pretty well, and he's okay with Wolverine. But in terms of matching comics personality to movie personality, Singer's pretty awful with: Jean, Cyclops, Storm, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Mystique, and Iceman. Which is basically all of the main X-characters he uses.

[nobodyyoucare]

 

Some are obviously more adaptable than others.  I have a hard time imaging that Wolverine's classic costume would ever work on film, I agree.

Its why I had no objection to what Marvel did with The Mandarian. There was no damn way they could have used his comic book look and backstory in a film. You would have every civil rights and liberal group claiming Marvel was racist for it. 

[CMH1981]

 

Some are obviously more adaptable than others.  I have a hard time imaging that Wolverine's classic costume would ever work on film, I agree.

 

Yet we have seen a deleted scene from the Wolverine of the brown costume.  I know it is just a costume in a box, but were there ever any photos of Jackman in said costume?  I would have loved to have seen it all put together to just see if it actually would have worked.  I just find it hard to believe they went to that extreme of creating a physical manifestation of the costume and not have a photo of Jackman in it.

 

http://www.stitchedtogetherpictures.com/2013/11/21/the-wolverine-deleted-scene-features-the-classic-yellow-and-brown-costume/

[SeanC]

I can't agree with this. I think Singer gets Professor X and Magneto pretty well, and he's okay with Wolverine. But in terms of matching comics personality to movie personality, Singer's pretty awful with: Jean, Cyclops, Storm, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Mystique, and Iceman. Which is basically all of the main X-characters he uses.

Jean, Cyclops and Storm were fine, personality-wise.  They just didn't have much focus, and, in the case of Storm, a poor casting choice.  Nightcrawler definitely played up one aspect of the character to the exclusion of others, but it wasn't invented wholesale (from the sound of it, the younger version will be more freewheeling).

[benteen]

I love Hugh Jackman and his portrayal of Wolverine, but yeah I was sick of the Wolverine show because I'm all about the team aspect and ensemble (it's why I never saw his solo films). With that said, I didn't think he hogged the screen in DOFP. I thought his role was just right. I know it was supposed to be Kitty in his spot, but I didn't mind the change.

 

Yeah, Logan was an absolute no-brainier to take Kitty's place in Days of Future Past.  He's the most established and popular character in these films.  You go with your big star, especially to anchor the kind of plot that DOFP had.

[CMH1981]

I have to say, if anything skip the Wolverine Origins film (the only saving grace of that film was Live Schreiber as Sabertooth) but do watch the Wolverine, it was really good.  The fight on the super-train scene was awesome, plus the character of Yukio was everything you could hope she could be in the X-Universe films.

Edited July 20, 2015 by CMH1981

[Jeebus Cripes]

Yet we have seen a deleted scene from the Wolverine of the brown costume.  I know it is just a costume in a box, but were there ever any photos of Jackman in said costume?  I would have loved to have seen it all put together to just see if it actually would have worked.  I just find it hard to believe they went to that extreme of creating a physical manifestation of the costume and not have a photo of Jackman in it.

 

http://www.stitchedtogetherpictures.com/2013/11/21/the-wolverine-deleted-scene-features-the-classic-yellow-and-brown-costume/

 

That costume is killer!

[benteen]

I enjoyed the first 2/3s of The Wolverine but felt third of the movie descended into the same storyline chaos that plauged Wolverine Origins.  Yukio was a great character though and Mariko wasn't bad either.

 

If they do do an Old Man Logan movie, I'd elect either Yukio or even Quicksilver to take the Hawkeye role in it.  That's the one thing that hurts adapting Old Man Logan...you really need the whole Marvel Universe for it.  If they'd let them use some of the Fantastic Four rogues gallery, that could definitely work.  It was the Moleman's Moloids that caused the post-apocalyptic landscape that we saw in the movies.  You could substitute Doctor Doom for the Red Skull.  But I have a feeling any Old Man Logan movie will be significantly different than its comic book counterpart.  I'd like to see it but I'd have some concern about it being repetative.  In many ways, Logan would be playing the same character he played in The Wolverine and certainly elements about what happened to the X-Men would be similiar.  But I guess the focus would be on Logan in a "Mad Max" kind of world.

[SeanC]

Even aside from the Marvel characters they can't use, I'm skeptical of how much the "Old Man Logan" adaptation they're evidently considered would really resemble the comic, just because it seems rather unlikely to me that FOX wants to impose a future where most of the X-Men end up dead on a franchise that it's in the process of (essentially) starting from the ground up again.

[CMH1981]

I think this is supposed to take place in the far, far, future for the Wolverine and X-Men characters.  Jackman's swan song/ definitive Wolverine film.  If nothing else they could have Kitty survive and she can send him back in time to prevent his past self from killing everyone.

 

I have to say, thank goodness Marvel is having issues w/FOX over the X-Men characters.  I would have hated if they had Kitty in the comics find out her secondary mutation is the ability to send the consciousness of others back in time.  Would it have killed them to have Rachel in DoFP to do the deed instead of Kitty?!  It wouldn't even have had to be the Rachel we know of, just some other red-headed mutant who has that ability.

[Sakura12]

Wait, they are actually doing Old Man Logan? 

[CMH1981]

That's the rumor, Jackman has said/dropped hints about it.  I do think it would make a great last outing for his version of Logan, but like we have said in here there will have to be substantial changes from the comic due to licensing of characters.

 

http://screenrant.com/wolverine-hugh-jackman-old-man-logan/

[SeanC]

I have to say, thank goodness Marvel is having issues w/FOX over the X-Men characters.  I would have hated if they had Kitty in the comics find out her secondary mutation is the ability to send the consciousness of others back in time.  

I really don't see the connection there.  That was clearly just to facilitate that particular story; why would the comics have ever added that?  They never reflexively imported everything from the films.

[Dandesun]

I understood why they had Logan go back in time in DOFP rather than Kitty for the movie version, I just didn't like it. I got it, completely, because the DOFP storyline in the comics is part of a serial story where you've been introduced to Kitty and she's all young and innocent and totally scared of Nightcrawler and then, all of a sudden, she passes out in the Danger Room and when she wakes up, she leaps into Kurt's arms with no hesitation to tell him how much she's missed him and can't believe he's really there and that it worked and no one knows what's going on.

 

Since the movies took no real interest in developing Kitty outside of 'runs through walls -- mild sexual tension with Bobby in order to make Rogue insecure' then all of that is lost. What's the point? They have to alter the movie storyline to fit what goes with the narrative they've already established but they've really only fully established Wolverine, Xavier and Magneto... and also Mystique and Hank. Unfortunately, they completely revamped Mystique's story -- I mean, she had little to no interaction with Charles at all in the initial movies and then we're supposed to buy her as Charle's surrogate sister and fighting over her is what Charles and Erik do. Meh. No thank you.

 

Mystique works best as a recurring villain. She's tried to do the redemption thing but she never really believes in it... also the push/pull with Rogue has been an on-going character dynamic as well as her reveal as Kurt's mother. That's the kind of thing they could work with that includes other characters. Even when she was leading Freedom Force with her Brotherhood while the X-Men were considered outlaws... it was still a great deal of tension with Rogue and she was still on the outskirts (I may or may not have re-read Fall of the Mutants recently.) with only Val Cooper really vouching for them.

 

As for Old Man Logan... *sigh* Look, Wolverine the Cash Cow is just something I have to accept. I don't have to like that, either.

[SeanC]

She's tried to do the redemption thing but she never really believes in it... 

Or rather, she does, but the never-ending nature of comics storytelling means it never sticks.

[CMH1981]

 

I really don't see the connection there.  That was clearly just to facilitate that particular story; why would the comics have ever added that?  They never reflexively imported everything from the films.

 

There was a period of time when they had Spider-Man gain organic web shooters just like Raimi films, so Marvel has done it in the past.  I'm sure there are other instances as well of movie storylines/plots/character traits that were eventually carried over.  I'm just saying, that if Marvel wasn't so dead set pissed that FOX still has the X-Universe rights, we might have eventually seen that, especially since Morrison introduced secondary mutations.

 

We were introduced to, what four new mutants at the beginning of DoFP? I just think it was ridiculous to give Kitty the power to send Logan back instead of having another new mutant w/that power that could have done so.  It was totally Singer's way of including her by paying homage to the original story where it was Kitty sent back, and that's it.  

Edited July 21, 2015 by CMH1981

[SeanC]

It was totally Singer's way of including her by paying homage to the original story where it was Kitty sent back, and that's it.  

Seems like a legit enough reason.

[JessePinkman]

If Old Man Logan is truly Jackman's swan song that means we're likely in for a new Wolverine. I nominate that hairy kid from Teen Wolf, Tyler Hoecien? Something like that. He's young and he has the look.

[Bruinsfan]

I really like Hoechlin, but he's frankly not a good enough actor to take on a character that a whole major franchise is built around. He'd have trouble holding his own alongside Shawn Ashmore, nevermind Michael Fassbender and James McAvoy.

[benteen]

So, has anybody watched DOFP The Rogue Cut yet?

[CMH1981]

I bought it last week but haven't gotten around to watch it yet.  I just watched DoFP on HBO not that long ago so i'm somewhat burned out on the film.

[SeanC]

If Old Man Logan is truly Jackman's swan song that means we're likely in for a new Wolverine. I nominate that hairy kid from Teen Wolf, Tyler Hoecien? Something like that. He's young and he has the look.

Reintroducing Wolverine poses some casting challenges, I think, particularly given the ages of the other actors.  He really needs to be played by an actor who is at least in his 30s, in my opinion.

[Dandesun]

I fear them recasting Wolverine as younger because then I'm sure I'll never escape this attempt to make Logan/Jean a thing. Don't do it, movie people! Just don't do it! Logan has had plenty of other lovers! Introduce Mariko or Yukio! Have him hook up with Storm, a relationship that actually makes sense to me because they actually have been teammates and friends for ages in the comics (even though I have a deep fondness for Storm and Forge.) Just say NO to Jean/Logan!

[JBC344]

There is actually a deleted scene in DOFP, before Logan gets sent back in time he goes and says goodbye to Storm and they have a passionate kiss, indicating that they are in some sort of relationship.

[Dandesun]

Was that a deleted scene or part of the gag reel?

[JBC344]

When I saw it, it was advertised as a deleted scene.  There was nothing humorous about it.  It was played as a straight dramatic scene.

[Sakura12]

It was played as humorous when I watched it. After the kiss, Halle ran around screaming with her hands in the air and Hugh made face that was like "okay". 

 

That just looked like a serious scene and both actors planned it for one of the takes, then it was deleted anyway. 

[DollEyes]

If Old Man Logan is truly Jackman's swan song that means we're likely in for a new Wolverine. I nominate that hairy kid from Teen Wolf, Tyler Hoecein? Something like that. He's young and he has the look.

 

I really like Hoechlin, but he's frankly not a good enough actor to take on a character that a whole franchise is built around. He'd have trouble holding his own against Shawn Ashmore, never mind Michael Fassbender and James McAvoy.

 

  Not necessarily. Hoechlin's big-screen debut was in 2000's Road To Perdition, opposite Tom Hanks and Paul Newman, in which I thought he was great. If Hoechlin could hold his own with two Oscar-winners like Hanks & Newman, then I think he can handle McAvoy & Fassbender.

[SeanC]

Per this new interview, Singer said that there's been some discussions about doing an X-Men/Fantastic Four crossover film.  I expect the future of that idea hinges heavily on whether anybody likes the new Fantastic Four or not.

[benteen]

Chris Claremont wrote a great X-Men/Fantastic Four mini-series back in the 80s.

Edited July 24, 2015 by benteen

[CMH1981]

I forgot Claremont wrote that crossover/mini-series.  I really wish the main crux of the storyline wasn't eventually wiped out to be another manipulation of Doom in that story to hurt Richards.