The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[LeighAn]

25 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

The comments on that ew article are great. I always find it funny when people scream for comic canon, but wouldn't want the comic canon of Oliver marrying which ever BC only to repeatedly cheat on her and eventually divorce.

My fave comment was;

" I think some people would root for Oliver screwing a 100 pounds of rotting meat if it was stuffed in that overly buckled outfit. "

Hahahahaha!

[SmallScreenDiva]

17 hours ago, tv echo said:

Robin: Well, in the Green Lantern comics, she marries the guy she thinks is the Green Lantern (it's his brother), so no, I don't think we've seen the last of Susan Williams. I'm pretty sure she'll cause a bit more trouble fir

If you answer anything on Arrow with "well, in the ... comics" you're not going to get me to take you seriously. 

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Well unfortunately that same commenter also suggested testing Dinah with Quentin, which....ewwww.  :(   Sorry.  I don't want Dinah with Oliver either, but putting Quentin with his daughter's replacement is absolutely not any better.

I guess it doesn't bother me because while we know she the replacement, to Lance, she's just another mask on the team.  Frankly, I think I'd enjoy the exploding heads if they did that.  I have zero expectation that they'd go there but she does so far seem to spark best with older male figures.  Maybe Dinah has some Daddy issues?  Yikes, what if they put her with Malcolm?  

[Mellowyellow]

As long as it's not Oliver or Felicity that she hooks up with I'm good!

[Starfish35]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I guess it doesn't bother me because while we know she the replacement, to Lance, she's just another mask on the team.  Frankly, I think I'd enjoy the exploding heads if they did that.  I have zero expectation that they'd go there but she does so far seem to spark best with older male figures.  Maybe Dinah has some Daddy issues?  

Nope nope nope ugh ugh ugh *shudders*

Sorry, but yeah no. Lol. :) We need Donna back.

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Nope nope nope ugh ugh ugh *shudders*

Sorry, but yeah no. Lol. :) We need Donna back.

I could live with that.  I do want Quentin to have a happy ending whenever it's going to finally stick and I liked him with Donna.  

[insomniadreams88]

13 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Nope nope nope ugh ugh ugh *shudders*

Sorry, but yeah no. Lol. :) We need Donna back.

Yep. But I also want Donna back for Felicity and it seems like if they bring Donna back and decide to put her and Lance back together, her relationship with her daughter is going to come second even though Felicity could really use someone there for her right now. The only time Donna has even been mentioned this season is in relation to Lance. 

Also, I think I'd love to see some of the media reaction if they go there with Tinah/Lance. I don't think they should pair them up but that's how I feel about a lot of this season. 

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Also, I think I'd love to see some of the media reaction if they go there with Tinah/Lance. I don't think they should pair them up but that's how I feel about a lot of this season. 

Yeah, there's a part of me that wants to see the freak out but I also think PB could pull it off.

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Review: “The Sin Eater”
Nora Dominick   Feb. 28, 2017
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-sin-eater/

Quote

It’s safe to say that season five of Arrow has been the weakest season to date. It’s a sweeping declaration, but after fourteen episodes we think we can make it. In fact, this episode of Arrow is the lowest rated episode of the show to date, according to Deadline. Although several interesting storylines were presented leading up to season five, Arrow has been unable to keep an audience interested. From Oliver’s mayoral storyline to the flashbacks to the new Team Arrow, all of these storylines were filled with promise, only to be subpar. Even interesting storylines like Felicity’s (Emily Bett Rickards) Havenrock fallout and Diggle’s (David Ramsey) prison story fell short of expectations. They felt rushed and were seemingly swept under the Arrow rug for flashier plot lines. The bigger the stunts got, the less character development seemingly mattered.

While we can debate what Arrow’s fatal flaw is currently, a lot of it comes down to character development and the loss of our core characters. Oliver, Felicity and Diggle are the core trio of Arrow and somehow they’re all the shells of their former selves. Barely recognizable, they seem to just stumble through plot lines until they end. Felicity and Diggle are at least better than Oliver as of now. More so than any other episode, this episode showcased a side to Oliver we didn’t even know existed. Instead of leading storylines, Oliver is drowning in them. His character development is essentially out the window and it’s blatantly obvious in the latest episode.
*  *  *
Since day one, Oliver Queen has preached the importance of keeping his secret just that, a secret. There have been several occasions where Oliver has even gotten mad about others revealing his secret. His animosity towards Felicity bringing Barry (Grant Gustin) into the lair the first time is the biggest example of this. In season five however, Oliver appears to think it’s okay to share his secret and not protect it with his life. We know, we’re just as confused as you are.
*  *  *
Arrow can’t not have Oliver in a relationship. Yes, we often talk about Arrow’s need to let the women flourish outside of a relationship, but Oliver deserves that same kindness. There was absolutely no need to throw him and Susan together. In fact, Susan sleeping with the person she is investigating made her more unlikable just as a female character. Essentially, we can boil down Oliver protecting Susan to the fact that he’s with her. If they weren’t an item, Oliver would’ve done exactly what Thea and Felicity did to remove her from finding out his secret. In fact, Oliver would’ve put an arrow through Susan’s hand. Amell’s performances aren’t waving, but the characterization of Oliver is what has us confused.

Not only does Susan try to expose Oliver’s secret, but Arrow wants us to feel like she’s the victim in this scenario. When she gets fired, Oliver goes to Thea and says she didn’t deserve this. Again, if Susan wasn’t sleeping with the person she was investigating and abusing her press powers, we might have some sympathy. Then again, Arrow hinges upon Oliver’s secret remaining a secret and we would’ve done what Thea did anyway.
*  *  *
Arrow falls flat this week as characters go against past development. While some storylines are thriving, most of these characters are unrecognizable to die-hard Arrow fans. Next week, Oliver faces impeachment after covering up Detective Malone’s death and we hope this brings some more drama and intrigue to an otherwise boring and chaotic season of Arrow.

Edited March 1, 2017 by tv echo

[Trisha]

14 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/28/arrow-oliver-dinah-romance-stephen-amell/

This was my fave part. Usually it's positioned as comic fans vs shippers, but here SA positioned it as comic fans vs fans of the show. And even though he talks about finding a "happy medium," in the same sentence he goes on to say the most important parts of the show "weren't a part of the Green Arrow mythos." Bless him. He should take all promotional duties away from WM and MG. 

Quote

“There have been feuding factions in the fan base — people that call upon the comics and people that have lived in the universe of the show,” Amell says. “I would say that we try to find a happy medium for both, try to live in the universe that the show has created where characters that weren’t a part of the Green Arrow mythos have become completely indispensable.”

[lemotomato]

‘Arrow’: Juliana Harkavy on Preparing Physically and Mentally to Play Black Canary
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      MARCH 1, 2017

It's a pretty decent interview. JH manages to convey how much she likes the role and IMO dodges all the potential landmines and controversies.

[Velocity23]

Badass! Is that in the introduction to every BC actress! To repeat that word non-stop. 

[Starfish35]

59 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

‘Arrow’: Juliana Harkavy on Preparing Physically and Mentally to Play Black Canary
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      MARCH 1, 2017

It's a pretty decent interview. JH manages to convey how much she likes the role and IMO dodges all the potential landmines and controversies.

Yeah I thought it was a good interview too.

[Morena]

Curtis Reveals His (...)

The article has already been posted in spoiler thread

Edited March 1, 2017 by Morena

[lemotomato]

Here's another interview with JH:

‘Arrow’: Juliana Harkavy on Black Canary’s ‘Desire for Justice’
Robert Chan
Yahoo TVMarch 1, 2017

No spoilers.  Again, a lot of emphasis on the physicality of the the role. I liked this bit:

Quote

So, does that mean she’s ready to take on the dreaded salmon ladder? Harkavy laughs. “I feel like it’s this ongoing thing that looms over the entire cast. I know that Rick [Gonzalez] has done it. I think even Emily [Bett Rickards] has done it — she is so incredibly strong. She is fitness goals. David Ramsey’s done it. I think Echo’s tried it. It’s just sitting there in the lair, so you see people walking by and give it a look like, ‘Should I?’” For the record, Harkavy plans to take on the ladder by the end of the season.

[EmilyBettFan]

Lmfao KC said the same thing.

[lemotomato]

And for the record, JH's interview with cultress.com

Nothing about Oliver/Dinah as soulmates in any of the interviews, BTW.

Edited March 1, 2017 by lemotomato

[bijoux]

Arrow's Lexa Doig Explains What Makes Talia al Ghul a True Badass

This was posted in the spoilers thread, but there are some non-spoilery bits that really make me like her.

Quote

Genre fans know you from “Jason X,” “Andromeda,” “Stargate SG-1,” and “Continuum.” What’s it been like joining the DC Universe?

It’s been so much fun. My ultimate goal – and I really want this, so I am putting it out in the universe – is I want Talia to have a Funko Pop! character. In my mind, I will have arrived if I can bring home a Funko Pop! character, a little figurine, and show it to my kids and say, “See. Mommy is cool.”

What did you make of Talia’s costume? Did it help you get into character?

What I love about the costume is how badass it makes me look. What made me laugh about the costume is the logistics of being in a superhero costume. They don’t tell you the quirks. For example, the quiver that goes in the back is often like a cone that your cat wears when he comes home from the vet. You’re not aware of it, you go to walk through a doorway, you slam your quiver into the side and you get stuck. Or the hood, when it’s up. My hood has to have a certain thickness. It’s made out of leather, so it stands up and looks nice, but then you have no peripheral vision and you can’t hear anything.

Then, there are these amazing side harnesses they have for me and they squeak a bit when I walk. The thing that I found funny about my very first day on set was walking around and looking so incredibly badass, but sounding like [makes squeaking noises]. As I walk, I’m bumping into things. I can’t hear what anybody says. I can’t see anything. It was just funny. Those are the hilarious things you discover about playing a badass, and how awkward it is. I have such respect for everyone on the show who has to wear these incredible costumes and stand there, looking badass and fighting and doing all the cool stuff. You have to overcome this hurdle of [squeaking sounds] and catching your cape on the back of your quiver.

....

Katrina Law has told me she would love for Nyssa and Talia to square off. How would you like to see their dynamic play out?

I would love that. Here’s my problem. My instinct is to always go for funny and comedy. It doesn’t always play well in the comic book world, because everything is always very high stakes, which is also fun. I think it would be hilarious if the two of them didn’t get along, but in a very modern-day, sibling kind of way. Maybe they butt heads, but it’s over somebody taking too much time in the bathroom. That would be hilarious, although the fight scene would look pretty badass. It would be a killer fight sequence. I’m also a family sap at heart, so I’d also love to see Talia and Nyssa fighting on the same side – and arguing with each other at the same time.

The description of the costume made me snort.

[dtissagirl]

I love to imagine these leather wearing people trying to do stealth recon in real life while squeaking. 

[apinknightmare]

I've never seen these guys so heated, haha.

[Chaser]

That's great. Lol

[calliope1975]

OMG, they brought up something I hadn't thought of.

Spoiler

Felicity should totally have asked Oliver to fix her relationship since he was also responsible for her Mayo losing his job life. 

Also, they are hilarious. 

[apinknightmare]

I felt bad for laughing when that one guy was like, "Tiny Hands is in a shoebox down at the morgue..."

[lemotomato]

Loved that review. So much better to just laugh than to get frustrated/try to figure out what the hell is this mess.

[MaisyDaisy]

I loved the fact that they touched on the issues about the poor writing towards Felicity and Thea, because to me that's some straight up mysoginistic shit. So to see a group of guys ragey over the same thing- females used as props and hypocritical treatment makes me happy.

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ recap: 'Fighting Fire with Fire’
SARA NETZLEY  MARCH 1, 2017 AT 11:37PM EST
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-episode-15/

Quote

Speaking of ending badly, Oliver orders Thea to make things right with Susan. Susan, who lied to Thea and manipulated her for a hit piece on her brother, the mayor. Susan, who’s been sleeping with the source she’s investigating. Susan, who’s honestly given us, the audience, and Thea, the sister worried about her brother’s secret, not a single reason to trust her.

As if that’s not enough, Oliver next guilts Felicity into helping him because Susan’s not returning his calls. Felicity’s clearly not okay with this, pointing out, “Susan is your girlfriend, so if anyone is going to fix it, I think it has to be you.” Oliver says he’s busy with, you know, being impeached, so Felicity reluctantly agrees to help. Look, I’ve never ended an engagement with a former billionaire playboy/masked hero after he lied to me about his secret child who was never seen again, but I don’t think I’d be cool being his wingman, no matter how much time has passed, ya know?
*  *  *
A banged-up Oliver gets a checkup from Dr. Schwartz, who knows his secret identity and insists that his mental strain is a bigger problem than his physical woes. “Are you prescribing me a girlfriend?” Oliver asks. That, or just a friend, she replies. Just as I’m thinking how good Oliver looks in his gray hoodie, he picks up his phone and calls … wait for it … SUSAN FREAKING WILLIAMS.

Guys, help me out here. Has this show ever once explained why Oliver cares for Susan so much? Have I missed their explosive chemistry, or all the things they have in common, or evidence that she likes him for him and not for the chance to get his shirt off to investigate his Bratva tattoos? Why is Oliver so doggedly sticking with this? Just… why?
*  *  *
Sweet galloping zebras, I am done with this character and this story line. THE REPORTER WITH A RECORD OF LIES AND MANIPULATION PROMISES TO KEEP OLIVER’S IDENTITY AS THE GREEN ARROW A SECRET, AND HE IS EXCITED THAT THEIR FIVE-MINUTE-OLD RELATIONSHIP IS SAVED.

I … need to lie down a second. Possibly with some vodka.
*  *  *
Yeah, I don’t know anymore, guys. Oliver’s making ridiculous decisions, Felicity’s sneaking around with questionable groups, Thea’s unnecessarily exiling herself, and Susan is still here. But so help me, loathsome character or not, if they’ve kept Susan around just to fridge her in the next episode, Arrow and I will have words. WORDS!

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[bethy]

2 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I … need to lie down a second. Possibly with some vodka.

Yes, please.

Is there a drinking game that goes along with this mess?

[Morrigan2575]

Was just coming here to post that review.

[tv echo]

Arrow swerves the audience even as its subplots stumble
By Alasdair Wilkins  Mar 2, 2017  12:52 AM
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-swerves-audience-even-its-subplots-stumble-251351

Quote

The trouble is that, without that, a lot of Oliver and Diggle’s arguments to Thea and Felicity can sound like haughty lecturing. Everyone admits that neither Thea nor Felicity is really considering anything worse than what anyone else has ever done. (I mean, blackmailing a councilman over his wife’s suicide is low, but Oliver has still killed more people than I can count, so he’s still done way worse.) Oliver at least locates his objection in terms of a concern for what will happen to Thea, saying she can’t hope to keep playing with fire without eventually getting burned. That’s a decent argument, and one Thea takes to heart when she resigns at episode’s end, explicitly comparing her current obsession with dirty politics to her bloodlust last season. The show’s argument for Felicity, though, is less compelling.

First off, I’ve got to call bullshit on the idea that Felicity’s superpower isn’t computers—computers are so obviously her superpower, and it’s staggering to suggest otherwise. Worse is the suggestion that her superpower is instead empathy, as it’s hard to separate that suggestion from the stereotypically feminine connotations around empathy as a character trait. Arrow has been walking a tightrope the last couple weeks, with the two most prominent male characters repeatedly telling the two most prominent female characters that they shouldn’t lower themselves to the same depths the male characters have, with Felicity especially been held up as a kind of token morally upright person to balance out the rest of the team.
*  *  *
Hell, for those who recoil at any discussion of social context, I can articulate this in purely narrative terms. Felicity’s growing association with Helix is the kind of murky, ambiguous storyline that requires the narrative agency reserved for a protagonist to work—Felicity needs the narrative space to screw this up and solve the problem all on her own. As it stands, her current place on the show makes it hard to see the inevitable Helix disaster as anything other than a way for her to disappoint Oliver and give him a problem to solve. Arrow is still putting out what are overall compelling, entertaining episodes, but it’s struggling to see Felicity outside of the context of Oliver, which was just about workable (leaving aside questions about what Felicity’s prominence ought[i/] to be) when the show was busy building up the new team, but it’s a potential liability when she’s being sent off to her own big, possibly self-destructive plotline. Think Laurel’s drinking problems, except with more hacking.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, bethy said:

Yes, please.

Is there a drinking game that goes along with this mess?

The drinking with this show is no game.

[Belinea]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

The drinking with this show is no game.

If you drink every time Oliver makes a stupid decision, you'd probably end up with a hangover or alcohol poisoning

Edited March 2, 2017 by Belinea

[BkWurm1]

Just now, Belinea said:

If you drink every time Oliver makes a stupid decision, you'd probably end up with a hangover or alcohol poisoning

On the upside, you probably won't remember what you just watched.  ;)

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Belinea said:

If you drink every time Oliver makes a stupid decision, you'd probably end up with a hangover or alcohol poisoning

And eventually kill your liver.

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Recap: “Fighting Fire with Fire” – Prometheus Revealed
Kayti Burt   Mar. 1, 2017
http://collider.com/arrow-recap-fighting-fire-with-fire-prometheus-revealed/

Quote

Adrian also seemingly kidnaps Susan Williams in the episode’s final moments. It’s a bit of a surprise that Adrian goes for Susan, rather than Felicity or Thea, but who am I to argue with the supervillain’s master plan without having seen his full crazy wall? So far, his nefarious judgment has been sound. Who knows what this most recent move means for the larger chess game?
*  *  *
Continuing on from last episode, we saw both Felicity and Thea being questioned for their ends-justify-the-means behavior. (Which, let’s be honest, is pretty hypocritical coming from both Oliver and, to a lesser extent, Diggle). While Thea ultimately decided to end her short, yet glorious career in politics in favor of trying to nurture her humanity, Felicity leaned in to her potentially dangerous career as a hacktivist.

Personally, I am all for both Felicity’s hacktivism and Thea’s machinations. I understand why the people around them worry that they might get in over their heads, but I’m here to be entertained and Thea’s pragmatic conniving and Felicity’s all-powerful hacking is highly entertaining. It’s also annoying to see two morally-questionable dudes police the empathy of two historically good characters.
*  *  *
Elsewhere, Felicity decides to officially commit to Helix, the mysterious hacktivist organization that tried to recruit her a few episodes ago. I really, really want Team Glasses not to be secretly evil, but when has any group that isn’t Team Arrow ever not been secretly evil on this show? For now, I’m just glad someone — i.e. Diggle — is paying enough attention to Felicity to notice that she is not only a) probably still grieving the murder of her boyfriend, but b) asking her about the secret hacktivist organization she has been hanging out with.
*  *  *
— Felicity calmly tells Oliver that he needs to fix his own girlfriend problems, which is kind of amazing. This woman has the patience of a saint.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 15 Review: “Fighting Fire With Fire” 
Chris King+  March 1, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-5-episode-15-review-fighting-fire-fire

Quote

Most of these stupid actions come from Oliver himself, who has been an incredibly irritating character to follow over the past couple of weeks. As I’ve mentioned before, I applaud the Arrow writers for the direction that they have pushed Oliver into for much of Season 5; following his journey to be a better, more inspiring hero, both as the Green Arrow and as the mayor, has been extremely satisfying for the most part. But there’s Oliver being noble and then there’s Oliver being just flatout dumb, which he continues to be throughout “Fighting Fire With Fire,” culminating with his press conference in which he paints the Green Arrow as a cop killer that is holding Star City back from being the best city that it can be.

On paper, I can understand this idea, that Oliver needs to fight against the crime in Star City in the light of day as mayor, and that he must sacrifice the Green Arrow persona in order to keep doing that. However, from a practical point of view, how does this make any type of sense? How can Oliver expect he and the team to stop Prometheus when the SCPD will be trying to track their every move in order to apprehend the Green Arrow for killing one of their own? Also, by painting a target on the Emerald Archer’s back, doesn’t Oliver realize that he’s also putting the rest of his teammates in danger? It’s not like the police will stop at just taking down the Green Arrow; they’ll want to bring in the rest of his crime-fighting crew as well. Again, I get that throwing the Green Arrow under the bus is Oliver’s only option at the moment to prevent his impeachment, but I do have to wonder if this decision will hurt him more in the long run.

But the announcement that Oliver makes at the press conference isn’t his only frustrating decision from tonight’s episode, as his continued defense and pursuit of Susan Williams might actually take the top prize for the dumbest thing Oliver’s done in a while. In my review of last week’s episode, I tried to see both sides of Oliver’s conversation with Thea; I agreed that it was right and important for him to point out that Thea seemed to be headed down a dark path with all the lying and scheming she was doing for his administration, but it also angered me to no end that Oliver would treat his sister that way while being so blind to the possible havoc that Susan Williams could wreak on his life.

Furthermore, Arrow hasn’t done a good enough job of establishing Oliver and Susan’s relationship to make me buy into the fact that he would care so deeply about her. Would she really be the one he would want to talk to over Diggle or Felicity when the doctor recommends that he unburdens his worries to someone? Also, why would Oliver jeopardize everything he’s accomplished over the past four-plus years because of a romance to a reporter that he’s only known for a couple of months, a reporter, I remind you, that initially wanted to tear down his administration and expose him as an incompetent fraud? Similar to Oliver’s press conference decision, I get what the writers are going for, but the execution over the past couple of episodes has been extremely lackluster. Susan has gone from a nice distraction for Oliver, a way to forget about his time as the Green Arrow, to a legitimate love interest without any real, proper development, and now, with Prometheus appearing to take her hostage, Susan feels even more like a plot device and less like a true character than ever before.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Fighting Fire With Fire (Season 5 Episode 15)
March 2, 2017 Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://www.telltaletv.com/2017/03/arrow-review-fighting-fire-with-fire-season-5-episode-15/

Quote

On the one hand, we’re supposed to see what Thea and Felicity are doing like a bad thing – proof that Thea is turning into Moira and Felicity is “descending into darkness” or something of the sort. Instead, we see it as …normal. Good, even.

Because, let’s face it, wouldn’t Thea and Felicity have done the same or worse to protect Oliver at any other point in this show’s run?
*  *  *
So, first argument’s out the window. This is not a timing issue – Thea, Felicity, and even Diggle would have done this and more at any other point of the show.

What’s the second argument? Something about morality? To that I say …come on, Arrow.
*  *  *
And that’s not even going into the hypocrisy of Oliver pretending he’s morally superior because he’d rather fall on the sword.

Look, here’s the problem: The show can’t just TELL me Oliver’s morally superior, they had to SHOW me Oliver getting to a place where he could legitimately express these concerns without coming off as a hypocritical jerk. Guess what?

They haven’t.
*  *  *
If that wasn’t enough, the cherry on top of this sundae is, of course, Susan Williams, a character so useless and badly written I have a hard time deciding what the writers actually intended us to feel for her.

Were we supposed to ship it? There’s more chemistry between Oliver and Lance than there is between him and Susan Williams, and hey, that would at least be buzz-worthy. Plus, the Lance/Oliver relationship has been rocky, but at least Lance has never slept his way to information.
*  *  *
Main character’s love interest gets kidnapped/manpain ensues is a classic trope. Problem is the trope only works if we actually care about the love interest.
*  *  *
Another week, another disappointing, exasperating and frankly boring episode of Arrow. Oliver’s an idiot, Thea is gone, Diggle gets to play sensei and not much more, the newbies are just stand-ins and Felicity, my dear Felicity, is relegated to two minutes an episode when we’re supposed to be in the middle of a Felicity-centric arc.
*  *  *
- The Susan storyline was bad enough BEFORE Oliver ordered Thea to fix it and then went and asked Felicity for advice. This is something no one does with their ex. NO ONE.
- Not even kidding, I have never in my life met one person who could have/wanted to have these conversations with their ex. I’ve never heard of such a person. I’ve never even seen a person like that depicted in fiction.
- You know why? Because it’s impossible.
- Though, to be fair, he’s fought way harder for Susan-freaking-Williams than he ever did for Felicity, so maybe he does care.
*  *  *
- There’s a lot of gun violence in this hour. Maybe they should do a special episode about that. Oh, wait …
*  *  *
- Limo jokes are not funny. Neither are “Little Drummer Boy” ones.
*  *  *
- For the ending to be effective someone would have to care about Susan Williams. No one does.
- In fact, kidnapping Wild Dog would have had more emotional resonance, and I don’t even like Wild Dog.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Prometheus unmasked, Vigilante returns and Oliver faces impeachment in latest Arrow
Trent Moore Mar 02, 2017
http://www.blastr.com/2017-3-2/dc-arrow-fighting-fire-with-fire-episode-recap

Quote

It's no secret this show has sometimes struggled with its female characters, but Thea's arc the past two seasons has pretty much been a train wreck. She's out of the superhero game, except for when aliens attack (apparently), and her tenure working in Oliver's city hall has found her dive down to the lowest ethical denominator to get things done. She ruined a reporter's life and is all set to blackmail a councilperson to keep Oliver in office. But … why? Oliver just offhand says Thea is ruthless like their mother, but it doesn't explain why someone who was literally a superhero would want to blackmail an old guy about his late wife's suicide. That just does not compute. If anything, Arrow has really struggled to keep Thea relevant after having her retire from the team.
*  *  *
So, after using the Pandora data to help out her pals the past few weeks, Felicity officially decides to sign up with the Helix hackers. This story has been slow-rolled the past several weeks, but you know it's going to come to a head in a big way by season's end. We're thinking Felicity winds up getting way too deep into something that draws the entire team into the crosshairs. Just guessing. But this storyline has also served as an opportunity to explore the moral ambiguities left behind by a broken Felicity. It's been a sad descent, but considering everything, a believable one.

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 15 Review: Fighting Fire With Fire
Tyler McCarthy   Mar. 2, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/262579/arrow-season-5-episode-15-review-fighting-fire-with-fire

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There’s nothing wrong with characters becoming self-aware and really examining their role in a larger world. However, from an entertainment standpoint, no one wants to see Bruce Banner complain about being the Hulk… people want to see the Hulk smash. The episode doubled-down on this theme when it came to Thea, who last week flexed her front-facing identity to get a career journalist fired. Now, she had to apologize for being totally badass and playing the chess game of politics better than a former party girl/nightclub manager rightfully should. If we’re going to lean so heavily on the drama surrounding the mayoral plotline, we need a character or two that’s going to actually play politics and suggest things like ruining a dead cop’s reputation or blackmailing a congressman.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow 5.15 Review – “Fighting Fire With Fire”
March 1, 2017 | Posted by Michael Haigis
http://411mania.com/movies/arrow-5-15-review-fighting-fire-with-fire/

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Let’s just get it out of the way: Prometheus’ real identity is District Attorney Adrian Chase, the character that has moved steadily from the periphery to the center of the stage throughout this season of Arrow. Whatever else may have happened in this busy episode, that revelation will undoubtedly be the takeaway for most viewers, which – when considering the rest of the episode – is both positive and negative.
*  *  *
Setting aside that these lame philosophical debates are mostly hollow and almost never match what we see on screen (The Green Arrow differs from Oliver’s early, “bad” days in no meaningful ways other than Oliver’s affected remorse after dirtying his hands), they hamstring the show completely, preventing it from moving forward. Each week, Arrow attempts to dissect the morality – or immorality – of vigilantism, but all its instruments are blunt. If the show would move past that argument, and land on one side or another, its characters could be allowed to grow inside that new framework.

For a specific example as this relates to “Fighting Fire with Fire” – if the characters could just come to an agreement that Oliver’s impact as The Green Arrow necessitates collateral damage like Susan, or some politician, we wouldn’t need to suffer through tired conversations about dirty hands, fire hazards, or whatever other shallow metaphorical rebukes these characters fire at one another each week. More broadly, the show should simply draw a line. That way, as the characters move closer to the line – or cross it – there will be compelling, interesting drama at play. The opposite of interesting and compelling is having the same conversation about where the line is in every episode.
*  *  *
“Fighting Fire with Fire” had one more major turning point, as Oliver held a press conference to declare The Green Arrow an enemy of the state. In order for Mayor Queen to avoid removal from office, a head had to roll. Oliver decided to make it the head of his alter-ego, in a move that is typically pretty senseless. This sacrifice makes sense only when viewed through the oversimplified prism of binary ethics this show relies upon. There is no true gray area in Arrow, which explains why Oliver would carry through a decision that is more harmful than not. His greatest impact on the show is as The Green Arrow; sacrificing his efficacy as a vigilante to protect his city hall office is just plain inefficient. Disregarding the most obviously expedient resolution – sacrificing the memory of officer Malone – Oliver would have arguably been better served simply falling on his sword as mayor.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow 5×15 Review: ‘Fighting Fire With Fire’
Mar. 2, 2017  by ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-5x15-review-fighting-fire-fire/

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Every week I find myself asking when will this nightmare that is season five come to an end? Realistically I know we still have eight episodes left (EIGHT). But that hasn’t stopped me from praying that this season is put out of its misery. It’s a mess. It’s s***ing all over the core elements of the show that have made it a success in the first place. It’s attempting to tout this new reputation of “look at us, we’re syndicated, we can do whatever we want and still be on the air.” It’s conceited, infuriating, and embarrassing.
*  *  *
This isn’t about ships at this point. This is about how these writers are failing to properly execute this season. They’ve attempted a reboot of a show that didn’t need to be rebooted; they’ve attempted to bring new characters in to make it fresh; they’ve actually sidelined the characters that this audience has come to love; and they’ve alienated a good portion of their fanbase in the process.
*  *  *
One of the core elements of Arrow since mid-season one has been the dynamic between Original Team Arrow. Now, while Oliver was off fighting impeachment or fighting to win a woman back that he hardly knows (when he didn’t fight nearly that hard for a woman he loves and who has made him a hero *cough Felicity *cough*), Diggle and Felicity got to share some screen time in what were the best scenes of the night. All two of them.
*  *  *
But these are the scenes I want to see. These are the moments that Arrow should be actively pursuing in their episodes. One of the things that made season two (the best season, in my opinion) so great was that we got to see how Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity responded to situations as a team. We got to see them talk things out; we got to see them struggle with conflict together; we got to see them inspire each other; we got to see what makes them an unstoppable unit. I don’t care if you give me five skilled and armed fighters alongside Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity. I’ll take Original Team Arrow – just the three of them – over any Team Arrow any day.
*  *  *
There’s a moment as a fan that you hope you never come to. The moment where you don’t recognize the hero of your show anymore. While the assassination of Oliver Queen’s character has been in the making for weeks, this was the episode where that knife was firmly driven home into my gut as I realized that Oliver Queen has been dismantled.

Oliver has never been a perfect hero. He’s never been a perfect person. I’ve loved him for his imperfections; I’ve loved him for his brooding nature; I’ve loved him when he makes dumb ass mistakes that he needs his friends to help him out of. Oliver’s character isn’t in question because he’s made mistakes. It’s in question because this character – the one we’ve seen on screen – doesn’t in the least resemble the character we’ve spent four years getting to know.
*  *  *
So when we’re presented with this caricature of Oliver Queen – someone who looks and sounds like Oliver, but doesn’t act like him – it’s beyond infuriating. Especially because there doesn’t seem to be any acknowledgement by the writers that anything has changed.
*  *  *
My problem with Susan Williams doesn’t stem so much with the fact that she’s dating Oliver so much as it does with her moral conduct – or lack thereof – as well as how the writers have chosen to handle this Oliver and Susan relationship.
*  *  *
My issue with this entire thing – with Oliver and Felicity being broken up, with Oliver and Susan being a thing – is how the writers have shown what they think is important when it’s not important. In two weeks, we’ve seen Oliver fight harder for Susan than he ever has for Felicity, a woman he actually has loved for a very long time, someone he wanted to – and still wants to – marry, a woman that has made him a hero, a woman that would be there for him no matter what was happening between them.

And yet, these writers would have us believe that Oliver isn’t going to fight for her. That Oliver isn’t going to go to the ends of the Earth to try and make it work. That when he breaks up with this girl that he’s known for all of five minutes that he’s going to fight for her – and go to his ex-fiancée for help in repairing his relationship.

I’m sorry, Oliver, but grow the hell up man. Don’t come running to Felicity when things get tough. Just because she’s helped you in the past – with relevant conflicts – doesn’t mean she’s always going to clean up your mess. Take some responsibility.
*  *  *
SUSAN WILLIAMS IS NOT THE VICTIM.

This show is trying so hard to paint Susan as the wronged party in this matter. Sure, she lost her job. Sure, she lost it because Thea planted false information that said she plagiarized. Still, Susan isn’t the victim.

Let’s take a look at her resume: Susan blackmailed and exposed Oliver and manipulated Thea in the beginning of the season; she got close to Oliver – and slept with him – in order to obtain information; she went against journalistic ethics in order to get a story.
*  *  *
2. Did Oliver actually ask Felicity to “fix” his relationship with Susan? I’m sorry, but what the actual hell? First off, how freaking dare you demand something out of the woman you claimed to love. Second, Felicity owes you nothing. Third, grow the hell up and fix your damn problems yourself!

4. How stupid does Arrow think we are? They’re still trying to drive this “Susan is a victim” mentality down our throats. To be honest, it’s insulting because if they actually think we believe that crap then they assume we’re morons.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

ARROW: "FIGHTING FIRE WITH FIRE" REVIEW
Jesse Scheeden  Mar. 1, 2017
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/03/02/arrow-fighting-fire-with-fire-review

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It’s also fascinating to watch Felicity’s continued descent into darkness. She’s high on digital power right now and, if not indifferent to the ethical lines she’s crossing, at least very willing to “fight fire with fire.” There’s no question about whether this will work out badly for her, only how much she’ll sacrifice and compromise before hitting bottom. This is the most compelling Felicity has been in a long time.

As for Thea, she showed a strength Felicity lacks right now as she willingly pulled herself away from the edge and abandoned her position of power. It’ll be interesting to see what role, if any, Thea has to play in the remainder of the season. It doesn’t feel like her arc is completely wrapped up yet, but at this point the show could probably stand to have one less recurring character to juggle.
*  *  *
This isn’t the first time we’ve seen a status quo where the Green Arrow is a hunted fugitive from justice. What really matters is where the writers take the character from here. Given the way this conflict played out, you have to wonder if Ollie might be willing to take a step back from his vigilante activities and allow the rest of the team to take point for a while. This could even be the start of a more permanent transition for the show. We’re about to reach the end of the show’s five-year flashback storyline. Neither Ollie nor Stephen Amell are getting any younger. Perhaps Arrow Season 6 will usher in a new status quo, one that emphasizes the ensemble nature of Team Arrow a bit more.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Stop Me If You Think You’ve Heard This One Before
BY CRAIG WACK · MARCH 2, 2017
http://oohlo.com/2017/03/02/arrow-review-stop-me-if-you-think-youve-heard-this-one-before/

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Despite throwing the audience a major curveball, the latest episode of Arrow gave off a well-worn feeling that works for furniture, but is generally a negative which it comes to TV shows.
*  *  *
Lately, the show has been more slavish to comics canon than not, so when new DA Adrian Chase and Vigilante showed up on the scene, it was assumed that the characters were one and the same, just like in the comics. So, it was quite a shock when Vigilante and Prometheus had a big battle on the rooftops this week, and Prometheus got the upper hand, and it was revealed to be Chase under the mask.
*  *  *
The downside, of course, is that we’ve been down this road before. Chase has become a key piece of Mayor Ollie’s inner circle, which means a betrayal from within is inevitable and that’s not the first time this season that has happened (Evelyn Sharp and to a lesser degree Reporter Susan).
*  *  *
... Seeing Felicity drawn closer to a flame she can’t handle in the guise of Pandora and the Helix hackers is entertaining, and an interesting direction for one of the core characters.
*  *  *
That is counterbalanced by the fact that Thea, returning for a couple of episodes after a long absence, is going back into exile seemingly to make room for more Susan. Speaking of Ollie’s squeeze, Felicity, whose boyfriend was killed by Ollie, hacks Susan back into her paper’s good graces to get her job back at Ollie’s behest (“I know I killed your lover, but you need to get me back with my girlfriend, you owe me”). She does get her job back, despite the fact Susan’s committing a termination worthy act by sleeping with the mayor while covering city hall, and covering up a huge story about the mayor being a vigilante wanted for cop murder in his spare time. New Canary hasn’t even escaped plot holes, because she’s been barely been on the Star City PD long enough to learn how to fill out the paperwork correctly, and she’s already a detective and on the mayor’s security detail. That has to raise eyebrows within the department at least, right? I’ll also mention for a final time there was a huge gun battle in the middle of the episode, as well.

[tv echo]

Review: ‘Arrow’ Drops the Bombshell Prometheus Reveal in ‘Fighting Fire With Fire’
Kevin Fitzpatrick   Mar. 1, 2017
http://screencrush.com/arrow-fighting-fire-with-fire-review/

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The Arrow women probably got the shortest shrift in the Prometheus haze, as I’m intrigued to see how Felicity took Diggle’s (literal) “fighting fire with fire” speech as a signal to fully immerse herself in Helix, in what seems like such a clearly ominous move. Similarly, it made sense that Thea would once again come across an opportunity to flex her Moira muscle with a little blackmail, but end up swinging the other way. Willa Holland is only ever guaranteed a certain number of episodes per year, and if we’re already engineering her exit after only a few episodes back, I have to wonder if we’re pivoting toward a more permanent retirement for Thea.

[tv echo]

"Fighting Fire With Fire" Arrow S05E15 Review
By Gislef   Mar. 1, 2017
http://www.tv.com/shows/arrow/community/post/fighting-fire-with-fire-arrow-s05e15-review-1488434059/

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As for the rest... hey, another episode where Oliver is never in costume. I'm not sure that his heartfelt confession that Green Arrow is a cop-killer and he tried to cover it up would have gotten him much of a sympathy vote. But I figure that they weren't going to let him get impeached on episode 15 of a 23-episode season. That's the kind of thing that's saved for a mid- or end-season finale.
*  *  *
Also, it sure is taking Felicity a long time to sort through the data from Amanda's Internet hookup? What did the woman do, download porn 24/7 for a few years? I just find it amusing that the same uber-hacker who can usually find data within 24 hours is taking days and days and days to find out who Amanda has been in contact with email-wise.
*  *  *
Felicity has a crisis of conscience and decides to keep digging that hole she's in. Again, I suppose her claim that she saw how Oliver needed a team to back him up so she decided to join Helix so that they would back her up is as self-delusional as Curtis thinking Paul wanted to get together. Why does Felicity need a team? Or rather, why does she need another team? Felicity doesn't want backup as much as she wants people who will put up with her newfound dark side without giving her a couple of lectures an episode.

[LeighAn]

Loving the reviews and the fact that they line up with a lot of the same complaints we have:

That it's hard to look at what Thea and Felicity did as wrong because they are the only genuinely entertaining.

The double standards of Diggle- killed my brother- and Oliver- I killed someone just five months ago- policing the morals of two female characters who the worst thing they could say they've done is made up FAKE NEWS (capitalise cause that's how the President rolls) 

That Oliver comes off like a moron and that it's hard to buy into the tension of the season being sold through Oliver and Susans relationship when nobody cares and they don't have chemistry.

The writers aren't going to listen to those complaints come from shippers in their Twitter feed but hopefully it will sting coming from the professionally paid reviewers. 

[kismet]

Interesting point about OQ being noble and then just plain out dumb. In previous seasons, OQ may have made less than intelligent decisions, but he made them for noble reasons. He made them to save people he loved, people the audience loved. This year he is just making plain out dumb decisions. I don't know if the noble made it better. But at least when he was blockheaded in s3 trying to save his sister at all costs, I understood that love. There is nothing this season that has even hinted nobility in his stupidity. It just stupid layered with plot.

[EmilyBettFan]

Are they trying to tell us that Snoozen might not tell Oliver's secret to the people but, that Oliver gets so exasperated by Prometheus that he makes the mistake of coming out with the secret himself? Therefore, Stephen can then say on Facebook live that he didn't lie and that Susan is good because she kept his secret.

Which in turn let's Prometheus tell Oliver that see "you ruined not only yourself but, your team's lives to."

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 

It’s also fascinating to watch Felicity’s continued descent into darkness. She’s high on digital power right now and, if not indifferent to the ethical lines she’s crossing, at least very willing to “fight fire with fire.” There’s no question about whether this will work out badly for her, only how much she’ll sacrifice and compromise before hitting bottom. This is the most compelling Felicity has been in a long time.

As for Thea, she showed a strength Felicity lacks right now as she willingly pulled herself away from the edge and abandoned her position of power. It’ll be interesting to see what role, if any, Thea has to play in the remainder of the season. It doesn’t feel like her arc is completely wrapped up yet, but at this point the show could probably stand to have one less recurring character to juggle.
*  *  *
This isn’t the first time we’ve seen a status quo where the Green Arrow is a hunted fugitive from justice. What really matters is where the writers take the character from here. Given the way this conflict played out, you have to wonder if Ollie might be willing to take a step back from his vigilante activities and allow the rest of the team to take point for a while. This could even be the start of a more permanent transition for the show. We’re about to reach the end of the show’s five-year flashback storyline. Neither Ollie nor Stephen Amell are getting any younger. Perhaps Arrow Season 6 will usher in a new status quo, one that emphasizes the ensemble nature of Team Arrow a bit more.

 

Wow, IGN is in a head space I don't understand.  Their solution for an overcrowded lair is to keep the newbies and get rid of Oliver???   Cause SA is old???  And how can a site that was screaming just last year about the focus being taken away from Oliver (even though it wasn't) justify now advocating for him to just get out of the way and and revamp the structure of the whole show so it doesn't revolve around him?  And they still managed to get in two backhanded slams against Felicity.  

Edited March 3, 2017 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

Who is Prometheus? Arrow 5x15, Olicity Heart-to-Heart
MARILYN PORTER   March 2, 2017
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2017/03/arrow-season-five-episode-fifteen-recap

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... Oliver urges Thea to smooth things over with Susan and I fight to not roll my eyes too hard. Listen, what Thea did was bad, but Susan isn’t innocent....
*  *  *
Oliver comes by while Felicity is growling at the news reports and they have a moment together. It’s all going well until he asks for her help with Susan, he wants her to try to smooth things over. She tells him that he needs to fix it himself, since she’s his girlfriend. He says he’s too deal with it and Susan isn’t returning his calls. I’m with Felicity here; the feels like a huge awkward mess to me. For what it’s worth, she tells Oliver that she thinks he’ll beat the impeachment, because he’s a hero for the city.

Oliver sees Susan at City Hall and tries to talk to her but she shuts him down rather effectively. She’s just not at all interested in talking to him, even knowing that this impeachment is hurtful to him. In fact, she tells him, “You deserve today.” Where’s the love? In the hearing, Oliver is blasted rather harshly by the councilman running things. The parade of witnesses produce rather damning testimony and it’s not looking too good.
*  *  *
... The doctor clears him of a head injury and suggests he find someone to relax with. She basically prescribed him a girlfriend. Or a friend. He tries the girlfriend route, putting in a call to Susan. Which is ignored. Again.
*  *  *
While the council is deliberating on his impeachment, Susan stops by, finally willing to speak with Oliver. She tells him that she got her job back, said that an “anonymous hacker” said the whole thing was faked. She tells him that she’ll keep his secret for him. But he’s more concerned with what happens next with them.

Susan doesn’t care about him. She was happy to see him getting impeached, she shows no concern in the wake of his accident… she won’t answer his calls or give him more than a sneer.  It’s not until she has her job back that she even gives him the time of day. I don’t think she has feelings for him at all. I think, ultimately, her biggest concern is herself and her career and those things come before Oliver....
*  *  *
Felicity meets up with the hacker girl from Helix that she met with before and tells her that she’s ready to join up with Helix, full throttle. She thinks this is the answer and I just feel like it’s… not. Elsewhere, Susan is approached by Adrian at her car and he comes on in a pretty threatening manner. If I cared about either Susan or Adrian, I’d probably care more about what happens next but… I don’t.  
*  *  *
There wasn’t a lot of Olicity to be had this week and what we did have was tainted by Oliver asking Felicity to explain things to Susan. Or find some way to make it better. Rather tasteless on his part, I thought, but Felicity is a classy woman. And she loves Oliver. She’ll do anything if she thinks it might make him happy, including clearing up the “misunderstanding” behind Susan’s firing and getting her her job back. This demonstrates the big difference between the two women, at least as pertains to their relationship with Oliver. Felicity is the woman who wants the best for him, always. Even when things between them aren’t going so great....

Arrow 5x15 Review: “Fighting Fire with Fire” (Burn, Baby, Burn)
Just About Write   Mar. 2, 2017
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2017/03/arrow-5x15-review-fighting-fire-with.html

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Let’s get my big qualm with this episode out of the way: Oliver telling Thea and Felicity to restore Susan’s career and make amends. I mean, gag me with a spoon. First of all, from a realistic standpoint, even though Thea’s methods weren’t exactly perfect, they were effective in revealing who Susan was. Again: if Susan actually DID really care about Oliver, why did she still have all of that intel on her laptop? Given the chance for fame and notoriety and prestige, Susan would have turned all of that intel against him. Or, conversely, had she been burned and had credibility, she would have turned all that intel against him. I really don’t understand why the writers are making Oliver this dense or insistent that Annoying Reporter Chick actually means something to Oliver. Heck, I would take a reincarnation of Laurel at this point over Susan.
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The problem doesn’t just stop with the fact that Oliver is blinded by his “feelings” for Susan to see that Thea actually protected him well. Oliver, THE WOMAN KNOWS YOU ARE THE GREEN ARROW AND WAS BUILDING A CASE AGAINST YOU. SHE DATED YOU TO GET MORE INFORMATION. SHE MADE A VERY POINTED COMMENT ABOUT YOUR BRATVA TATTOO. DO YOU NOT REMEMBER ANYTHING? HAVE SEASONS OF CAR CHASES AND STUNT SEQUENCES FINALLY GIVEN YOU A CONCUSSION?

No, the real problem is what happens next: Oliver approaches Thea and tells her to make things right with Susan. She went too far in getting her fired (I mean, did she though? Did she really? Susan isn’t exactly a world-class journalist.), and needs to make amends. Thea, rightly, refuses to do so and won’t apologize anymore for what she did. Brava, Thea. Even though your brother is essentially trying to force your hand, at least you didn’t back down.

So then Oliver goes to his second option: Felicity. And when Felicity points out how awkward and uncomfortable and — frankly — inappropriate it is that Oliver is approaching his ex-fiance to help make things right with his disgraced former journalist girlfriend, Oliver still pushes the issue. Felicity tells HIM to fix his relationship with Susan and his mansplained response is that Susan won’t talk to him. What kind of jerk approaches his ex-fiance in order to try and restore the reputation of a woman who — objectively — doesn’t deserve to have her reputation restored in the journalistic community. (Also, Arrow, NO ONE BUT SOMEONE WITH PRESS CREDENTIALS WOULD BE LET INTO AN IMPEACHMENT HEARING. NO ONE. NO BLOGGER WOULD BE LET IN. NOT EVEN PEREZ HILTON.)

This episode pretended to be about the moral high ground: Oliver and Diggle are worried because Thea and Felicity seem to be slipping into some questionable things in order to protect the people they care about. (I’ll get to the Diggle conversation soon, don’t worry.) But the problem is that Oliver has no leg to stand on if he simply glosses over what Susan did — or would have done — to him, had Thea and Felicity not intervened. It’s not okay if Thea and Felicity protect him, but it’s totally okay if Susan hides the fact that she’s using her relationship with him to figure out whether or not he’s the Green Arrow? Sure, Jan. Sure.
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Diggle also sweetly tells Felicity that her superpower isn’t about her hacking skills: it’s about her empathy. The team needs her to stay burn-free because she’s the one who deeply cares for people in ways that others on Team Arrow can’t always do. They don’t want to lose her to the darkness, because then that empathy would be lost too.

And I get that. I get that Diggle is trying to be helpful in pushing the topic, and ultimately this conversation wasn’t bad or — as I said — antagonistic. It was just Diggle doing what he would do with anyone else on the team. But it just felt a bit too much in an episode where Felicity was already being pressed by Oliver to help. Funnily enough, Felicity takes what Diggle told her and turns the lesson on its head at the end: she decides to join Helix. When Felicity approaches Kojo, she tells the woman that she watched someone close to her almost die, but be saved because he had back-up.
*  *  *
I find it odd, too, that Thea told him how great Oliver was doing as mayor and that seemed to lead him to believe that he could continue making more of an impact as mayor. Maybe the show needs to do a better job of portraying this narrative, but I don’t feel like — as a viewer — I’ve seen enough about Oliver caring about his mayoral position to justify him sacrificing Green Arrow in order to keep it. I’ve seen a lot of his office and random snippets of him doing things, sure. But we really don’t know, apart from Thea’s little bit of dialogue, what Oliver has actually done to make Star(ling) City better. If the show wants to convince me that Oliver is actually a good mayor and cares about his job, they need to show it and not tell. (Classic rule of storytelling, y’all.)
*  *  *
So yes, apparently when we get to our next episode, Prometheus will have kidnapped Susan Wells. And we all definitely care about her fate. Totally.

Edited March 3, 2017 by tv echo

[kismet]

Totally... :)