Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search
Spoilers, New Topics & Co
Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 16.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

Posted Images

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Don't worry, he just said "My favorite fans". He didn't say he would actually listen to us about what we want, and don't want.

Nor should he. No offense but no storyteller should spend their time trying to please online fans, especially shippers.  Online fans and shippers are a very vocal minority.  In fact shippers are pretty much the equivalent of comicbook fanboys (in this discussion) , an irrelevant, small fanbase.  

The fans that MG is talking about are the general Arrow fans, who make up the largest percentage of viewers. Not the comicbook fanboys or shippers or character stans that spend hours online obsessing over very specific/limited aspects of the show (favorite character, ship or comicbook story)

So what he said is funny and right, he shouldn't (doesn't) cater to comic fans and he shouldn't/doesn’t cater to shippers, IMO.  

Edited by Morrigan2575
  • Love 17
Link to comment
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

In this article, Laura Hurley discusses MG's comment about 80,000 viewers from his Collider interview...

Why The CW's DC Universe Doesn't Need To Stick To The Comic Books
Laura Hurley  Aug. 22, 2016
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1548279/why-the-cws-dc-universe-doesnt-need-to-stick-to-the-comic-books

Quote

The CW may be one of the smallest non-cable networks, but it definitely requires more than 80,000 viewers to justify the expense and effort of a show. Even if all of the comic fans of a current title tuned in on a weekly basis, the ratings wouldn't be enough for the shows of the Flarrow-verse. Besides, most of the characters starring in DC TV shows on The CW have been around for decades of reboots and retoolings in comic lore. If the shows wanted to follow comics exactly, the shows wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. There are an awful lot of comic canons to choose from for each hero.
*  *  *
Three of the four DC TV shows that will air on The CW this fall have been presented as origin stories. The opportunity for Marc Guggenheim and Co. to take these legendary characters in new directions means that comic fans and newcomers alike have the chance to see brand new stories as they unfold. Ongoing TV shows are always evolving; what would Arrow be today if the original Team Arrow had never formed? Is The Flash any worse for introducing a Wally West who is only a few years younger than Barry? What harm has been done to Supergirl by incorporating James Olsen as a main character? What would Legends be if Arrow hadn't created its own proto-Black Canary in Sara Lance? The ratings that are extremely impressive by CW standards are proof that taking this version of the DC Universe in a fresh direction works for viewers, no matter what their comic background.

... Still, Marc Guggenheim's reveal to Collider about the importance of non-comic fans tuning in means that all four shows can really go in any direction moving forward. Viewers who never knew the difference between Green Arrow and Green Lantern until a few years ago can still expect a show that doesn't require a background in the source material.

Edited by tv echo
  • Love 2
Link to comment
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I normally don't post articles by this writer because he belongs to the camp that blames Arrow's problems on Olicity, but I did have to cheer his last line here (however, I still get annoyed whenever anyone says stuff like "While fans direct most of their ire towards... Felicity," as if it were a proven fact)....

In Defense of 'Arrow''s Oliver, Our Most Despised Superhero
Eric Francisco    August 22, 2016
https://www.inverse.com/article/19959-defending-oliver-queen-in-arr

Quote

Take a quick look at the Reddit forum for the DC show Arrow, r/Arrow, and you might be surprised by what you see. Star-spangled red, white, and blue dominate the top and side banners, with a bespoke Stephen Amell (as his character Oliver Queen) looking stern. It’s an optimistic change from the forum’s binge-watch of Daredevil, but the top banner remains curious; a photoshop of Donald Trump’s campaign slogan, it boldly reads: “Make Arrow Great Again!”
*  *  *
While fans direct most of their ire towards Oliver’s love interest Felicity Smoak (Emily Brett Rickards), there is a fair amount of frustration flung at Oliver himself. As the show’s (supposed) leading hero who fights crime under the guise Green Arrow, Oliver has been regularly burnt for making the dumbest of dumb decisions. Remember that time in Season 3 when he hastily made a woman he didn’t trust the temporary CEO of his family’s Fortune 500 company? Yeah. That was fun. And this past season Oliver was a freight train of that, be it running for mayor when you’re a vigilante to lying to his fiance about having a son. Way to put everyone in harm’s way, Ollie.
*  *  *
The other DC heroes have become more than superheroes. Sara and Ray Palmer have hopped aboard a spaceship to become defenders of time, while the Flash and Supergirl have abilities no one else is capable of. For the most part, Oliver is just a dude who could compete on American Ninja Warrior instead of fight crime. That he chose to do the latter speaks wonders.
*  *  *
But the need to become mayor, to keep his family away from his superhero life as possible (Thea notwithstanding), to keep Diggle alive so he can get home to Sara, they all come from this hazy notion that Oliver is dedicated to guarding others. The other characters may resent him for that, but that’s an admirable and self-less trait.
*  *  *
Those guys are of course anti-heroes, but as a billionaire heir Oliver never said becoming the Green Arrow was for kicks, or for some selfish pursuit. He genuinely cares about the people in his city, and however questionable his methods have been — never forget how Arrow started its first season as a superhero Dexter — dude’s trying.
*  *  *
He hasn’t messed up the timeline

Screw you, Barry Allen.

Edited by tv echo
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Quote

however, I still get annoyed whenever anyone says stuff like "While fans direct most of their ire towards... Felicity," as if it were a proven fact)....

Would love some facts to support that. Because, from what I've most people (fans/media) blame the writers not Olicity or Felicity.  

  • Love 4
Link to comment
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

22 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Would love some facts to support that. Because, from what I've most people (fans/media) blame the writers not Olicity or Felicity.  

His "facts" probably come from Reddit, since he mentioned it in the beginning. 

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Sakura12

Sakura12

Of course MG would like the casual fans, the ones that just watch the show every week and don't think or complain about it after it's over. Of course he has to realize those fans don't praise the show either and would only be slightly upset if the show got cancelled then more right on to the next show and forget all about his show. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I don't think it was smart of MG to antagonize comic book fans.  It would have been better if he had said something like, "Some of my favorite fans of the shows are the people who are not comic book fans."  Or even something like, "My favorite fans of the shows are the people who are not comic book fans because I get to introduce them to the world of comics." 

However, media sites sometimes edit quotes, which is why I prefer to watch actual video of interviews.

Edited by tv echo
Link to comment
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

He's always been pretty antagonistic toward Green Arrow comics fans with regards to the show - he knows how some of them feel about him - no sense in pretending, since it'd probably come off fake anyway. At least he's consistent here, which unfortunately cannot be said of his storytelling. 

Edited by apinknightmare
  • Love 7
Link to comment
dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Fandom -- all sects of it -- always thinks it's more important than it really is. Every single showrunner likes the average viewer better than the engaged fan. In fact, from the POV of the industry, the engaged fan has one job only: to use his enthusiasm to get more average viewers watching. Basically, you're only a "good" fan from the creatives POV if you get your mom and and your co-worker and your neighbor to watch too.

And if we go to the specifics of comic book adaptations, then the fans of the original materials have something working against them that's actually been part of the comic book fandom for decades: it's a gatekeeping community. It's a community that historically doesn't want new members. So of course a showrunner of a live-action comic book adaptation not only knows that, but has to consciously work against that.

 

Edit to add:

In fact, this is part of Berlanti's discourse about Flash. Flash is the show considered to be closer to the comics, but Berlanti always mentions how his favorite thing about the show is when whole families are watching it together. That's Berlanti directly working towards getting that gatekeeper comic book fan to get their mom to watch the show.

Edited by dtissagirl
  • Love 14
Link to comment
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Just FYI - good read about Felicity and double standards (but remember, we can't talk about fandoms here)...

Love, Feminism and Fandoms
by LIZZIE  August 24, 2016
http://fangirlish.com/love-feminism-fandoms/

Quote

You might see Emma Swan as a woman who was bad-ass when she was just the Savior. I, however, see an even stronger woman now that she tore down her walls and opened herself up to love. You might think Felicity Smoak was better when she wasn’t letting inconvenient feelings and/or issues get in the way of the job Team Arrow does, but I see her as more real, more relatable, better.

And I still see both of them as role models.

For some reason that probably has to do more with misogyny that a lot of people want to admit, there seems to be a prevalent notion in some subsections of fandom that a female character can’t be both a love interest and strong, nuanced woman. Or, worse yet, that she can’t be the main character and have any part of her life revolve around another person – especially if that person’s a man.

That it somehow makes her less strong.
*  *  *
But, and here’s the important part: You can be a badass woman/character and be in love. You can make sacrifices for your partner and still be a feminist. In fact, you can be your own hero and still be rescued from time to time. Life is not black and white.
*  *  *
Same goes for Felicity Smoak, who had the nerve to actually display negative feelings after the man she was about to marry lied to her about having a child. In real life, that would be hailed as the right thing to do. Dump the idiot, her friends would say. Don’t look back. On TV, though, she was expected to process her feelings quickly, get over them and still find a way to continue working for Team Arrow.

Anything else was taken as a sign of weakness.
*  *  *
Not that we ever consider shows of male emotion to be a weakness, no. We hail those as a guy being sensitive and caring. There’s a huge double standard, one we continue to perpetuate by asking different things from female characters than we ask of male ones.

Edited by tv echo
  • Love 11
Link to comment
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Our 13 Favorite Unconventional Families on TV
By Derek Stauffer on Tuesday, August 23, 2016
http://www.buddytv.com/slideshows/arrow/our-13-favorite-unconventional-families-on-tv-73893.aspx

Quote

12 of 13
Team Arrow, Arrow
It’s true that only two members of Team Arrow, Thea and Oliver Queen, are actually related. (And even that is a little odd considering Thea’s biological father is Oliver’s original archnemesis.) By the characters' own admissions, however, they are a family. They are connected, even if not by blood. Still, no amount of affection keeps Team Arrow from being the height of unconventional and a mess of dysfunction. When they are not literally saving the world and fighting the bad guys, they are either lying to one another, sparring or having some kind moralistic argument. Oh… or they are dying. They tend do that one a lot.   

Edited by tv echo
  • Love 2
Link to comment
Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Oliver and Felicity are included in TVLine's list of 15 "TV Twosomes That Really Need to Kiss and Make Up".

http://tvline.com/2016/08/25/kiss-and-make-up-day-tv-couples-list-photos-arrow-greys-anatomy-scandal/

#10 -

Quote

Oliver and Felicity, Arrow

We’re prettttty sure we know how this movie ends, so hopefully once the Flashpoint interference fades away, this dynamic duo can rekindle their flame and matter-of-factly be mates while primarily focused on the fighting of crime.

Edited by Starfish35
  • Love 12
Link to comment
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

13 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Huh, isn't she one of the anti-Olicity fanatics on TV Fanatics? 

I just looked through some of their roundtables from last season (about 10 of them), and I don't see her name as a participant. Not sure if she was active for Arrow elsewhere on the site.

Link to comment
Lily-n11

Lily-n11

This is what I found about Carla Day:

Quote

Oliver and Felicity. What surprised you the most?

Carla: I'm with Hank, I've never really seen Felicity and Oliver as a romantic pairing. He's come across as more of a big brother and mentor. In addition, he's been too troubled to be good for her, until now, maybe? It was odd to see Oliver so happy and actually with a smile on his face. For the first time, I saw a bit of real romantic chemistry between the two. So, maybe I can get on board. That surprised me.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
lemotomato

lemotomato

I realize that chemistry is subjective, but every time I see someone argue that "Oliver treats Felicity like a sister!", especially after season 2A, I wonder if that person has siblings, or have ever watched siblings interact. 

  • Love 17
Link to comment
Guest

Guest

19 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Does Carla have psychic abilities? Is she a writer for the show? How does she know anyone will be disappointed? I hate that know-it-all attitude. Go review something. 

Link to comment
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I realize that chemistry is subjective, but every time I see someone argue that "Oliver treats Felicity like a sister!", especially after season 2A, I wonder if that person has siblings, or have ever watched siblings interact. 

Or they're huge VC Andrews fans!

  • Love 12
Link to comment
lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Does Carla have psychic abilities? Is she a writer for the show? How does she know anyone will be disappointed? I hate that know-it-all attitude. Go review something. 

I wonder if "What are your opinions about Olicity? Are you contemptuous of shippers?" were questions asked during the interview for the job. Especially since Collider posted GATV guy's anti-Felicity/Olicity/Olicity fans screed. 

Edited by lemotomato
  • Love 2
Link to comment
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
10 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Does Carla have psychic abilities? Is she a writer for the show? How does she know anyone will be disappointed? I hate that know-it-all attitude. Go review something. 

That is a they are going to be so disappointed, heh heh, please let them be so disappointed wishful tweet if I've ever read one, haha. 

Edited by apinknightmare
  • Love 11
Link to comment
dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I always feel like I'm looping all the way back to my X-Files fandom days whenever someone says O/F gave them sibling vibes. That was THE STAPLE of the noromos back in the day, that Mulder saw Scully as a little sister/replacement for Sam. Uh-huh. 

  • Love 19
Link to comment
Chaser

Chaser

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Does Carla have psychic abilities? Is she a writer for the show? How does she know anyone will be disappointed? I hate that know-it-all attitude. Go review something. 

I'm confused. The tweet Haynes was responding to was a joke about SAs quote about Oliver's most important relationship being with the City. When she said people were going to be so disappointed, what did she even mean? The Olicity fans were going to be disappointed because the City was so important or that the the person tweeting is going to be disappointed because the City isn't. I thought that was poorly worded response on her part. 

Also, reviewers try and predict all the time. We do it here constantly. I don't see it as a know it all attitude. 

I have no idea how good of a reviewer she is but considering how awful Collider is, I can't imagine she is much worse. 

Link to comment
Guest

Guest

(edited)
13 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm confused. The tweet Haynes was responding to was a joke about SAs quote about Oliver's most important relationship being with the City. When she said people were going to be so disappointed, what did she even mean? The Olicity fans were going to be disappointed because the City was so important or that the the person tweeting is going to be disappointed because the City isn't. I thought that was poorly worded response on her part. 

Also, reviewers try and predict all the time. We do it here constantly. I don't see it as a know it all attitude. 

I have no idea how good of a reviewer she is but considering how awful Collider is, I can't imagine she is much worse. 

I don't get it either because the tweet was clearly a joke, anyone can see that. 

It came across as know-it-all to me. Just the attitude of it because really she doesn't know anything, certainly not whether we'll be disappointed or not. Neither do we. 

Also I should add that I don't like the way it comes across like these reviewers are looking down on 'those poor shippers.' The whole attitude of it makes me uncomfortable tbh. 

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

I always feel like I'm looping all the way back to my X-Files fandom days whenever someone says O/F gave them sibling vibes. That was THE STAPLE of the noromos back in the day, that Mulder saw Scully as a little sister/replacement for Sam. Uh-huh. 

There were times when their vibe was very platonic but even then I'd say he never treated her like a sister let alone a kid sister.  Skeeves me out anyone watched X-files and thought siblings.  Eww.

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Starfish35

Starfish35

I'll be the odd one out then - I got kid sister vibes in Time of Death.  The forehead kiss, the "you'll always be my girl" thing?  Ugh.   Part of the problem is that EBR is playing older than her actual age, and when the show put her in situations like that, she could come across as very very young.  At least to me.  Mileage will vary of course.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Chaser

Chaser

There was a forehead kiss in TOD? How am I not remembering that?

I agree with you. It did feel like he was patting her on the head and that is something I could hear him saying to Thea. One of the many reasons I hate that scene.

Sad really, high Felicity had great potential. 

  • Love 3
Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)
2 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

Time of what now? I distinctly remember Arrow going on hiatus January - April during Season Two. ?

Funny, that's pretty much how I remember it, too ;)

Also, I'm willing to bet there was no forehead kiss in TOD. All the fandom had to cling to at that point was a lingering hug.

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Guest

Guest

I didn't get sibling/kid sister vibes in TOD but I admit it wasn't the same O/F chemistry that they'd had up until that point. It was kinda awkward because it felt like they were trying to be something they were not. But considering they were all about O/S at that point in time, it wasn't really surprising. That whole episode was weird actually.

Link to comment
ohjoy

ohjoy

5 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

I always feel like I'm looping all the way back to my X-Files fandom days whenever someone says O/F gave them sibling vibes. That was THE STAPLE of the noromos back in the day, that Mulder saw Scully as a little sister/replacement for Sam. Uh-huh. 

Maybe it's the height differential that's throwing some people off? Yeah, I got no other explanation.

(I do wonder of these are the same people who saw an "inappropriately close siblings"vibe between Oliver and Thea when the show first started. I remember seeing much ado about that for the first several episodes until they started bringing dates for Thea that were her own age.)

  • Love 1
Link to comment
statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Wasn't the forehead kiss in Three Ghosts as Felicity begged Oliver to make sure he came back? And as he went off to fight Ra's, of course.  There was a purely platonic forehead kiss.

Time of Death was the episode they pulled back on the Olicity reins so much I got whiplash.  I still hate that episode, but now I can see that the idea was good but the execution was bad.  Which brings me to Ray .....

People see what people see.  The original slash ship was Kirk/Spock even though Kirk was running through women like they were a dying breed.

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Sad really, high Felicity had great potential. 

I want that Felicity back some day.

Edited by statsgirl
Link to comment
catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I think some episodes are being conflated.

IIRC:

Time of Death was 'you'll always be my girl' told to a stoned Felicity as she leaned into his hand.

State v Queen - (which is my full on start shipping episode) was the killing of Vertigo to save Felicity, the touching of her face after he saved her, and her touching his shoulder worried he'd been shot. And the end scene with the hand squeeze,  and Oliver's "there was never any choice"

The forehead kiss was in s3 when he went to fight Ra's Al Ghoul.

But for me, I never got a siblings vibe from Oliver towards Felicity. I always thought something was percolating from Oliver's side. YMMV

Edited by catrox14
  • Love 13
Link to comment
catrox14

catrox14

10 hours ago, RandomMe said:

do wonder of these are the same people who saw an "inappropriately close siblings"vibe between Oliver and Thea when the show first started. I remember seeing much ado about that for the first several episodes until they started bringing dates for Thea that were her own age.)

I used to joke about it as a way to point out that SA had chemistry with everyone not named Katie Cassidy, even the woman who plays his sister. 

  • Love 3
Link to comment
quarks

quarks

The same episode that featured an early Oliver/Laurel kiss - 105 - also has a scene where Thea is rubbing Oliver's leg in comfort that some people took as platonic/sibling and some people.....did not.  It created some fan comment at the time.

Link to comment
Lily-n11

Lily-n11

(edited)

Where did your favorite TV couple leave off? Let’s DTR before the fall premieres  by Lindsay MacDonald at 11:08 AM on Aug 29, 2016 http://zap2it.com/2016/08/fall-tv-2016-ships-where-arrow-greys-anatomy-more-left-off/

Quote

Love hurts, but love on TV hurts about 10 times more. Some of our favorite TV couples went into the summer hiatus happy, but most went into it with broken hearts and unsure futures.

To help you prepare for the upcoming fall premier season, Zap2it has pulled together some of your favorite ‘ships and where they left off when the season ended. Be sure to check if your OTP is living the high life, or in serious need of a DTR before their new season picks up.

 

Olicity – ‘Arrow’

Their catastrophic breakup in Season 4 of “Arrow” has left this couple in no-man’s land. Going from engaged back to teammates has been a rough journey, but we’re not ruling out hope for Olicity yet.

Edited by Lily-n11
Link to comment
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

‘Arrow’ actor Stephen Amell shares new GMA show clip; fans react
07:34 PM August 30th, 2016
http://technology.inquirer.net/51667/arrow-actor-shares-new-gma-show-clip-and-fans-react

Quote

Actor Stephen Amell recently shared a video clip on Facebook showcasing a new Robin-Hood-inspired show on GMA Network with a Flushed Face emoji. Filipino fans reacted with posts of apologies out of embarrassment for the seemingly blatant resemblance of the show to American television series “Arrow.”

Many netizens who saw Amell’s post felt embarrassed over what they said was a “ripoff” of the popular series.

Edited by tv echo
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...