Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[fishcakes]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:58 AM, AncientNewbie said:

I know Mario plays it up for humor but I see a lot said in other forums (fora?) about the quality of cast on RI. What's the feeling around here?

I'm not an acolyte of Pensacola Robert, but I don't think this was intended to be a cast of sheep. I think Rob did make plays that cut out threats and controlled allies until there was no legitimate winner left on the table.

That's always been my feeling. Everyone on his tribe was gunning for him except for Natalie, who was young (18!) and naive, and Grant, who thought he and Rob had a genuine F3 alliance, which hardly makes him a sheep, just a guy whose trust was misplaced not unlike pretty much every single person who has lost this game. (I will also say that even though I liked Grant, his big show of hurt feelings at the reunion was ridiculous; Grant talked as much shit about the other players as Rob did and was absolutely gleeful when he thought they were going to blindside Ashley and keep Phil.) Every single other person on his tribe plotted to vote him out, so he he either turned them into an ally (Phil), turned them into an ally and then voted them out (Matt), or just voted them out (everyone else). They weren't sheep or idiots; they got outplayed.

But the "Rob's Zombies" thing is never going to go away because Rob is a polarizing figure and his detractors want to believe it. People who didn't even watch the season have made up their minds that the fix was in for Rob. And Coby's recent EW interview provides a perfect example of this.

Quote

Do you still watch Survivor, and if so, what’s your favorite season you were not on and why?

<snip>

P.S. I have watched every season whole except 2...

Redemption Island — because it seemed cast for Rob to win.

Edge of Extinction — because I HATED people returning! It is so far from Old School it makes my head hurt.

He didn't watch it, but he has opinions on the cast. I have a soft spot for Coby, but shut up.

 

On 8/10/2020 at 1:40 PM, Hera said:

I think Rob has only himself to blame for the perception (whether it was true or not) that the Redemption Island cast were all sheep. All season long, during his confessionals, he made fun of his castmates and laughed about how stupid and gullible they were. He can't get mad that the audience took his word for it.

He always trash talks the other players; he's done that in every season he's played, and it doesn't seem to me like he stepped it up on RI. I remember he called them dumbasses a couple of times, which is normal for him, and once said something specifically about Natalie and Phil, saying he had to put those "two idiots" on his back and carry them to the end, but I wouldn't say he was constantly belittling anyone. He also praised his teammates, when talking about why he had to get rid of them. He said Kristina was smart and playing hard, Andrea and Matt were working together and dangerous, and that he couldn't let Grant get to the end because Grant would win.

Edited August 17, 2020 by fishcakes

[Lantern7]

I’m in the camp that thinks Rob (and Russell) got fellow competitors that would give them a slightly better path to victory. Because Russell was Russell, he got voted out and fell through the safety net that was Redemption Island. After that, the title was Rob’s to lose. I know, we should be sicker that Philip got second place, but I felt that Rob didn’t have to sweat that hard to win that money.

[AncientNewbie]

On 8/17/2020 at 12:25 PM, Lantern7 said:

I’m in the camp that thinks Rob (and Russell) got fellow competitors that would give them a slightly better path to victory. Because Russell was Russell, he got voted out and fell through the safety net that was Redemption Island. After that, the title was Rob’s to lose. I know, we should be sicker that Philip got second place, but I felt that Rob didn’t have to sweat that hard to win that money.

This season isn't my hill to die on, during a log challenge, but I generally can agree with this...there's some subset of the online community that seems to think Russell was intentionally paired with the local Mensa chapter and Rob with a Rob Mariano Fan Club chapter.

I obviously wasn't there, but I can see myself starting on that tribe and here's a well-known fan favorite who is good at challenges and good at camp life (tasks and connecting with people) and that's not someone I want to get rid of early. I think it's too easy for fans to say "But it's Boston Rob" but he doesn't play like an expendable king of the castle even if that's his confessional style. Having him on my tribe is more likely to keep me out of tribal than not, in my view.

Edited August 19, 2020 by AncientNewbie

[Steph Sometimes]

I'm currently watching the Palau finale. I remembered the final challenge and the unfortunate way that played out but forgot the tribal before that (where Jenn goes), and the way Tom and Katie just break Ian. It's painful to watch and soured a really strong season for me.

I may do Marquesas next. I tolerate Rob seasons more when I know he leaves early. I also remember thinking how beautiful the scenery was for that season.

[Growsonwalls]

Cliff Robinson passed away this morning. 😞 

[Lantern7]

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Cliff Robinson passed away this morning. 😞 

When it rains, it pours. #FFS

[Ms Blue Jay]

So sad.

[kav]

They should do some Special about the Survivors who have passed away or even some section to honor them on their website.

[AncientNewbie]

On 8/30/2020 at 5:25 AM, kav said:

They should do some Special about the Survivors who have passed away or even some section to honor them on their website.

I like this idea. I've said repeatedly (to no one that cared) that a series of specials either weekly or on a semi-regular basis would have been an easy fill for the fall schedule. Some of it would be cheese like "best romances" or "best blindsides" but this would be a very good topic for some feature...touching memorials, warnings about cancer screening and mental health awareness, slightly redeemed Colton, etc.

[LadyChatts]

10 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

I like this idea. I've said repeatedly (to no one that cared) that a series of specials either weekly or on a semi-regular basis would have been an easy fill for the fall schedule. Some of it would be cheese like "best romances" or "best blindsides" but this would be a very good topic for some feature...touching memorials, warnings about cancer screening and mental health awareness, slightly redeemed Colton, etc.

I put a halt to my re-watches because I’m going to go through serious Survivor withdrawals and want something to fill my time between now and next fall.  It’s weird to think this time last year we were picking apart the IOTI cast and twist, not knowing we wouldn’t have Survivor a year later.  

I do like the idea of airing Survivor related specials.  It is still Survivors 20th anniversary year after all.  It’d be cool to even air an older season and get comments from the cast throughout.  They could easily do that via Zoom. 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by LadyChatts

[AncientNewbie]

Agreed, @LadyChatts, that the Zoom concept works well on this. Maybe a year or two ago everyone would have wanted studio-quality video interviews, but there's a window they could capitalize on for the tech everyone has at home if not sending out better tech for home use.

Clip shows with commentary, pop up video style interjection (if not the computer imaging), castaway/directory commentary as a season/ep rolls, etc, could all be done with minimal investment by production, in my mind. They wouldn't need hosts or sets.

I really want a new season because I'm a bit burnt out, but I've also enjoyed watching without any tension about who was going to win. It frees me up to look at a lot more of the events and the edit. No matter how much I try, though, every new season I revert to a little kid scared the bad guy is going to pull it off.

[BK1978]

It was weird, yesterday Pluto was showing Survivor: Vanuatu and before the credits started rolling I could pretty much name the entire cast.  Well not the younger dudes because they were all pretty much the same person to me.  But I was like, "Hey there's the grown ass man Rory, there's Sarge, there's Bubba, Dolly, Chad and Mia."  Obviously I also remembered the everyone who made it into the jury phase.  The weird thing is, why is it that I can remember nearly the entire cast of a show that aired in 2004.  Yet I would struggle naming half of the people that were on more recent seasons?  With the exception of  David vs. Goliath, that season had the best by far out of any of the recent seasons.  I legit forget the name of the guy who won Edge of Extinction all of the time and I have to look him up.  The only reason why I remember Tommy winning Island of the Idols is because he has red hair and you don't see many people with red hair, like ever.

[SnideAsides]

On 9/1/2020 at 7:45 AM, LadyChatts said:

I do like the idea of airing Survivor related specials.  It is still Survivors 20th anniversary year after all.  It’d be cool to even air an older season and get comments from the cast throughout.  They could easily do that via Zoom. 

They've even got a template they can work from if they want: the UK's version of Big Brother (which mercifully got cancelled - for the second time - back in 2018) did this a couple of months ago as a shared celebration of its 20th anniversary and excuse to fill airtime during the UK's lockdown, getting two of its old hosts to pick ten iconic episodes (of the seasons Channel 4 had the rights to) to rebroadcast with little bumpers around the commercials to explain the context. It worked out really well considering the circumstances, but I wonder if CBS might have waited too long for that kind of setup to work here.

[LadyChatts]

9 hours ago, SnideAsides said:

They've even got a template they can work from if they want: the UK's version of Big Brother (which mercifully got cancelled - for the second time - back in 2018) did this a couple of months ago as a shared celebration of its 20th anniversary and excuse to fill airtime during the UK's lockdown, getting two of its old hosts to pick ten iconic episodes (of the seasons Channel 4 had the rights to) to rebroadcast with little bumpers around the commercials to explain the context. It worked out really well considering the circumstances, but I wonder if CBS might have waited too long for that kind of setup to work here.

I think it would have been cool for our Big Brother to air specials, too, since it's the 20th anniversary of that show (although I recommend they pretend a good chunk of seasons didn't happen).  And The Amazing Race, too, since that is coming up on it's 20th anniversary next fall.  Seriously CBS, at least put All Access to good use with this stuff.  What exactly am I paying for?

On another note-since we were talking about Russell in another thread, I'm getting towards the end of Samoa.  It's interesting to watch these seasons back, knowing what happens, because Russell's loss was so obvious in hindsight that I'm surprised I was that shocked he lost in the first place.  Probably not as shocked as him, but I was still sort of surprised at the time.  Especially losing to Natalie.  I would have thought Mick would win over both of them.  And not that I'm complaining, since I didn't like Galu, but that should always be a lesson to never start eating your own at the start of the merge, especially when the other tribe has proven their incompetence at challenges and has only 4 members to your 8.  I guess they underestimated just how pissed off Shambo was at them.   

[BK1978]

On 9/6/2020 at 9:18 PM, LadyChatts said:

I think it would have been cool for our Big Brother to air specials, too, since it's the 20th anniversary of that show (although I recommend they pretend a good chunk of seasons didn't happen).  And The Amazing Race, too, since that is coming up on it's 20th anniversary next fall.  Seriously CBS, at least put All Access to good use with this stuff.  What exactly am I paying for?

On another note-since we were talking about Russell in another thread, I'm getting towards the end of Samoa.  It's interesting to watch these seasons back, knowing what happens, because Russell's loss was so obvious in hindsight that I'm surprised I was that shocked he lost in the first place.  Probably not as shocked as him, but I was still sort of surprised at the time.  Especially losing to Natalie.  I would have thought Mick would win over both of them.  And not that I'm complaining, since I didn't like Galu, but that should always be a lesson to never start eating your own at the start of the merge, especially when the other tribe has proven their incompetence at challenges and has only 4 members to your 8.  I guess they underestimated just how pissed off Shambo was at them.   

I wish Shambo would want to come back, she would be my dream get if I could have any former cast member return.  Honestly I liked Dave Ball on the season as well, but I don't think he was memorable enough or as much of a character that he would ever get asked back to return. 

[AncientNewbie]

I think in Dave Ball's AMA he said something about the jury not wanting to vote Mick because he had a high paying career back home.

[LadyChatts]

7 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

I think in Dave Ball's AMA he said something about the jury not wanting to vote Mick because he had a high paying career back home.

I just finished the Survivor Samoa finale yesterday, and Jaison (who I expected to be a way more bitter juror than he was) asked them to tell everyone about themselves, and the finalists all mentioned their jobs and how well off they were.  I already forgot but I think another juror touched on that as well.  Since I'm all about who played the better game, I don't care if freaking Jeff Bezos is sitting there, if I felt he outplayed the others, he's getting my vote.  I guess I've never liked the logic of someone being better off and therefore not deserving to win the game, or someone winning a car in a challenge so somehow that makes them selfish and a threat and they need to go.  It's probably why we get sob stories nowadays.  But I realize everyone has their own criteria.  

I remember watching Samoa for the first time and thinking Russell was going to get it big time, but that Erik of all people was the most bitter juror.  And prior to re-watching, I forgot there even was an Erik on Samoa and assumed he was either an early out or incredibly forgettable.  First merge boot, and since he was on Galu who continually kept winning (therefore not getting as much camera time as the hapless Foa Foa), I guess I was sort of right.  Honestly, though, I will always believe that the vote for Natalie was more against Russell, and that Galu was giving their middle finger to the season because they went and screwed up their chances, and got beat by a the mullet wearing Shambo and a tribe of 4 that had won just one IC pre-merge.  If Brett hadn't won those two IC when it counted, Shambo would have been the last Galu standing.  In all, though, it was a pretty boring FTC.  I'll always say Russell was robbed in this season.  Yeah, he did stupid things he didn't need to (like burning Jaison's socks and dumping the canteens), but otherwise I thought played a decent strategic game.  

Samoa was actually better on re-watch.  I don't know that there's anyone I would bring back that hasn't returned yet.  Shambo, but I believe she's turned down return invites to appear.  It seems like those who've returned were more on gimmicky seasons, like Russell Swan appearing on Philippines with two other medevacs, or Laura on BvsW.  And then Monica and Russell.  Am I missing anyone else that came back besides Laura, the two Russells, and Monica?  I liked the kid Brett, and even though he was barely there post-merge, I guess I'd throw him and Mick in as people from this season I would have liked to have seen return.  

Quote

I wish Shambo would want to come back, she would be my dream get if I could have any former cast member return.  Honestly I liked Dave Ball on the season as well, but I don't think he was memorable enough or as much of a character that he would ever get asked back to return. 

I'd love to see Shambo come back and be on a tribe of old schoolers like Gretchen, Tina, Vecepia, and even Sandra.  I think being with more like minded women and tribe mates would have been better for her game, rather than getting stuck on Club Med.  And I just would love to hear Sandra's cracks about being with a woman named Shambo who had a hairstyle from the 80s.  Shambo was really awesome, though.  I liked Dave, too.  I found him interesting and memorable.  The downside to a tribe that continually wins, is that they don't always get the focus pre-merge, and after the merge it's like 'who are all these people', and you don't know whose with who, so only the big personalities and the underdogs that are outnumbered get the attention.  

I want to say, too, that watching Samoa felt like a weird end of an era for one phase of Survivor.  Idols were still in the early phases, to the point where after Russell played his, there was debate as to whether it was even re-hidden or out of play completely.  But there was just a feel to the strategic game play, the editing, challenges, and alliances that just seemed like old school Survivor, but starting to tread into what I consider the first of the new school phase.

Edited September 9, 2020 by LadyChatts

[AncientNewbie]

Samoa, like I said before, suffers for me in the emphasis on Russell over what everyone else was doing on the island. I've met people (fortunately very few) who think that the rest of them literally did not play and just sat around all day while Russell did everything, because that's pretty much what CBS presented. It's one of the seasons with the largest discrepancy (again, imho) between "the game" and "the show."

[Steph Sometimes]

11 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

Samoa, like I said before, suffers for me in the emphasis on Russell over what everyone else was doing on the island.

I agree completely, and it's the main reason I put Samoa as one of my absolute least favorite seasons ever. I remember Russell (who I cannot stand), Shambo and some racist. No one else got screen time. I swear when the jury started filling up, I didn't recognize most of them. 

I did see Dave Ball once outside some restaurant. He's very distinctive looking.

[AncientNewbie]

13 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I agree completely, and it's the main reason I put Samoa as one of my absolute least favorite seasons ever. I remember Russell (who I cannot stand), Shambo and some racist. No one else got screen time. I swear when the jury started filling up, I didn't recognize most of them. 

I did see Dave Ball once outside some restaurant. He's very distinctive looking.

Samoa falls down my list for the same reason. I'd like to watch it with fresh eyes, in light of my recent rewatch of everything up to and most of post-Samoa seasons this weird year, but I struggle with all Russell all the time. Short of Cirie and maybe Cochran, who both seem to address the silliness of the whole spectacle, there is no one in the 590 contestants I want to spend that much time watching. (And I'm not really a big Cochran fan, I just appreciate the nod to the "yes, we are really adults doing this..." vibe he often projects...)

[LadyChatts]

After re-watching Samoa, I didn't think it had the Russell overload as I was remembering.  Yes, there is a lot of Russell, but I was surprised that other people on Foa Foa got camera time, too.  I literally remembered nothing about Mick, Jaison, or Natalie.  I remembered Ben solely for being a POS that thankfully was booted early (but not early enough), and Betsy more because of Ben.  And while I didn't remember her name, first boot Marisa I remembered getting booted because Russell thought, correctly, that she would come after him.  Beyond that, I thought Foa Foa was all Russell.  And Galu was a pretty boring tribe.  They got more screen time than most tribes do nowadays that go on a winning streak, but besides Dave, I felt all the men blended together.  I forgot there was an Erik and Brett, and only remembered John because he's with Parvati.  And Shambo is awesome, but if it hadn't been for Laura and Monica returning in later seasons, I probably would have forgotten them all together, just like I did the other two women on that tribe.  It was one big cool kids clique on Club Med.  

Overall, I'd rank Samoa somewhere in the middle.  It's a decent season, although I wouldn't have it near the top 10, but its not a bottom 10 for me, either.  I think I would recommend first timers watch it, but I'd give them other suggestions first.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: How Fabio won Survivor: Nicaragua

[Daisy]

On 9/6/2020 at 12:44 AM, BK1978 said:

It was weird, yesterday Pluto was showing Survivor: Vanuatu and before the credits started rolling I could pretty much name the entire cast.  Well not the younger dudes because they were all pretty much the same person to me.  But I was like, "Hey there's the grown ass man Rory, there's Sarge, there's Bubba, Dolly, Chad and Mia."  Obviously I also remembered the everyone who made it into the jury phase.  The weird thing is, why is it that I can remember nearly the entire cast of a show that aired in 2004.  Yet I would struggle naming half of the people that were on more recent seasons?  With the exception of  David vs. Goliath, that season had the best by far out of any of the recent seasons.  I legit forget the name of the guy who won Edge of Extinction all of the time and I have to look him up.  The only reason why I remember Tommy winning Island of the Idols is because he has red hair and you don't see many people with red hair, like ever.

I am good basically until. Fiji. I'm kinda sketchy on the seasons after that - and basically my Suvivorpeadia ends Survivor 20.  for me. outside of a few seasons (where i remember moments not the casts) it's all the same to me.

[Steph Sometimes]

I'm rewatching Amazon and am about halfway through. It's a good season (even if I didn't particularly like the winner) , but some of the guys are just kind of...gross with the way they talk about the three "hotter" women. I know all the praise Rob gets for strategy and commentary and it's deserved, but listening to him constantly talk about threesomes and breasts and his constant hopes for some girl-on-girl action is just ew. Butch is ok (although, I think later in the game he burns down the camp or something) and Machete Matt is as bizarre and interesting to watch as I remember.

Speaking of Matt, I think my favorite line so far came from Deena. She's talking to one of the guys about boot order and says something like, "Unless we plan to 5150 Matt a little earlier..."

Edited September 26, 2020 by Steph Sometimes

[BK1978]

10 hours ago, Daisy said:

I am good basically until. Fiji. I'm kinda sketchy on the seasons after that - and basically my Suvivorpeadia ends Survivor 20.  for me. outside of a few seasons (where i remember moments not the casts) it's all the same to me.

I think I figured it out, at least for me.  If the season is a season I enjoy with a good cast I tend to remember who was on it.  For instance David vs. Goliath is by far and away my favorite most recent season.  It had a great cast with Nick, Gabby, Mike White, Angelina, Christian, Davie, John, Carl, Lyrsa, Natalie.  That is just a tremendous cast right there and you know you have a great season when people remember the early boots like Natalie (Who I hope they bring back) and Lyrsa.  Same goes for Cagyan that was an amazing cast and I can name most of them just by seeing them on screen.

Then you have Edge of Extinction and besides the return player and a handful of new players (Reem ftw!), I simply do not remember that cast at all because the season and the concept of the season just was not interesting to me.

[LadyChatts]

Re-watching Nicaragua and we'll see if it's as bad on re-watch as it was the first time around (I've never re-watched this season before).

Fifteen minutes in and I'm left wondering how Fabio not only managed to make it to the end, but isn't still lost in the Nicaraguan jungle somewhere.  He couldn't even understand why they were calling him Fabio at first (or that the Fabio name was even directed at him).

Also, Shannon is a bigger ass than I remembered.  And again, I'm fifteen minutes in.

I guess I wasn't the only one wondering why Jimmy Johnson was out there.

Edited October 2, 2020 by LadyChatts

[Steph Sometimes]

I'm rewatching Cook Islands. I know the storyline, the editing, everything, but I'm still grinning like an idiot as the Aitu 4 wins challenge after challenge. I love these four -- even Ozzy who I like less in subsequent seasons.

Yul is amazing (and so handsome) and Penner is also amazing in his own way (and also handsome). Speaking of Penner, I haven't gotten to the family visit yet, but I may get teary-eyed with Stacy. 

I still think it's funny they brought back Candace as a Hero.

Also since so much has already been said about the main players and many returnees of the season, I just want to add that Sundra has the prettiest voice. It's so calming. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Steph Sometimes

[peachmangosteen]

48 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I just want to add that Sundra has the prettiest voice. It's so calming. 

I agree. I also think she’s the most beautiful woman ever cast tbh.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Have you guys seen Sundra on "Sex and the City"?  Please don't blame Sundra for the shitty writing on SATC's part 🙂. I love the show and all, but they're awful at race relations..... 

 

Part 2, trying to enter a sentence here in an attempt to break up the videos

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Steph Sometimes]

Finished Cook Islands last night. I've rewatched about 8 seasons so far and this was my favorite rewatch. I just loved the Aitu 4. and how great they were. I even loved Ozzy and his amazing abilities and I don't usually love Ozzy. If there had to be twists like the super powerful idol and the double elimination council, I'm glad they worked out the way they did otherwise the final 3 probably would've been something like Adam, Candice and Ozzy (because he would still win all the challenges).

I loved Becky and Sundra doing a little happy dance after Yul told Sundra about the idol. I loved someone (I think Ozzy) writing "Johnny Blue Eyes" voting out Penner (and Penner does have very pretty eyes). And yeah, the Penner/Stacy scenes (both in the family visit and the reunion) got me.

I'm starting China now. I don't remember as much about it other than I started out loving Amanda and hating Courtney but ended up liking Courtney more.

[LadyChatts]

On 10/24/2020 at 12:29 PM, Steph Sometimes said:

Finished Cook Islands last night. I've rewatched about 8 seasons so far and this was my favorite rewatch. I just loved the Aitu 4. and how great they were. I even loved Ozzy and his amazing abilities and I don't usually love Ozzy. If there had to be twists like the super powerful idol and the double elimination council, I'm glad they worked out the way they did otherwise the final 3 probably would've been something like Adam, Candice and Ozzy (because he would still win all the challenges).

I loved Becky and Sundra doing a little happy dance after Yul told Sundra about the idol. I loved someone (I think Ozzy) writing "Johnny Blue Eyes" voting out Penner (and Penner does have very pretty eyes). And yeah, the Penner/Stacy scenes (both in the family visit and the reunion) got me.

I'm starting China now. I don't remember as much about it other than I started out loving Amanda and hating Courtney but ended up liking Courtney more.

I loved the early days of the idol play, because no one but Yul seemed to know what they were doing.  It was night and day difference between Terry having the idol during Exile Island, and Yul having the idol during Cook Islands.  What I never understood is why the Rotu tribe didn't just sacrifice one of their own to get the idol out of play.  Nowadays it has become a boring split the vote, in case someone has the idol.  But Rotu could have voted for one of the Aitu 4, Yul played his idol (or maybe not), but even if one of their own got voted off, they'd still have a numbers advantage.  And the idol would be out of play.   But I'm glad the Rotu group wasn't that bright.  The Aitu 4 dominating despite the extreme odds is Survivor Hall of Fame worthy.  

Speaking of Ozzy, I'm in between watching Nicaragua (uh) and Micronesia (yay) which of course was Ozzy's second season.  I just finished episode 2, which saw Amanda/Ozzy begin their love affair.  I loved the reactions of Jonathan and Cirie talking about baby announcements, those two being oblivious to others sleeping in the shelter, and why you'd want to kiss someone who hasn't brushed their teeth in a few days.

Edited November 18, 2020 by LadyChatts

[SVNBob]

On 11/17/2020 at 7:37 PM, LadyChatts said:

What I never understood is why the Rotu tribe didn't just sacrifice one of their own to get the idol out of play.  Nowadays it has become a boring split the vote, in case someone has the idol.  But Rotu could have voted for one of the Aitu 4, Yul played his idol (or maybe not), but even if one of their own got voted off, they'd still have a numbers advantage.  And the idol would be out of play. 

Not really.  The merge happened at 9, with 5 Rotu (really 4 Rotu + Penner) vs the Aitu4.  Even if the 4 Rotus were willing to sacrifice someone (read: "Penner") to counter the idol, they didn't think they had to.  They were totally convinced that Yul did not have the idol, to the point that they were still trying to convince Penner that Adam had the idol even after Penner saw the idol in Yul's hand.  That was the crux of Penner's reverse-flip.

But even if Penner hadn't flipped, Rotu wouldn't have had the numbers advantage.  It would have ended up a 4-4 split after that vote.  And Yul would have tried to convince the rest of the Aitu4 to go for the tie and potentially draw rocks at 8.  Because, in that case, the odds would more likely be 3-2 in favor of the Aitu4 (Yul and whomever the Aitu4 voted for getting immunity for the tied votes, and Ozzy most likely having won the necklace.)  Then he'd tell the Rotu 4 at TC those odds, and that the only way for them to ensure they'd stay would be to flip on the revote.  And I'd wager that one of women would flip (probably whichever was not romantically interested in the Aitu4's target).  That puts the advantage back in control of the Aitu4 vs 3 Rotu...with a big crack in the Rotu alliance.

[Steph Sometimes]

I just started Micronesia FvF. I finished Episode 3 where the two tribes are competing side-by-side in a basketball challenge and Penner is alternating between enthusiastically cheering on and heckling the Fans. On almost anyone else the heckling could seem like such a jerk move, but he has such a goofy dad energy sometimes that it doesn't even read as insulting. To me anyway. But I love Penner so I'm biased. Stupid future game-ending injury.

I love Cirie too, but hate that she went after Yau-Man. I skipped Fiji in my rewatch but seeing Yau-Man and remembering how much I also loved him (and Earl) makes me think I should go back to it.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Steph Sometimes

[Steph Sometimes]

Finished Micronesia a while ago and decided to rewatch Gabon next. I was a little hesitant just because I remember that was one of the first times (but certainly not the last) I was really disgusted by the winner because he did nothing the whole game. I'm about halfway done (right before the real merge I think), but holy hell is this season a complete train wreck. It's amazing how all over the place it is. They switch tribes twice before the merge for some reason! Corinne's repeatedly talking about stabbing people. Randy hates everyone. Everyone just seems miserable except for Sugar who seems to be having a blast, giggling throughout challenges and tribal council (when she's not crying) and maybe Charlie because he gets to be close to Marcus. Jeff is also particularly sexist this season, having his mind blown anytime someone chooses a female contestant over a man to be on their tribe and commenting on it repeatedly.  Maybe it's month 35 of quarantine, but I'm kind of loving how bizarre it is. And Kenny and Crystal are kind of an odd yet endearing pairing.

And Bob, Susie and Sugar may be the most bizarre Final 3 in the history of the show. 

Also, I was googling some of the players and learned that Ace is younger than Matty so that's my random fact of the day. 

[Guest]

On 1/1/2021 at 10:04 PM, Steph Sometimes said:

Finished Micronesia a while ago and decided to rewatch Gabon next. I was a little hesitant just because I remember that was one of the first times (but certainly not the last) I was really disgusted by the winner because he did nothing the whole game. I'm about halfway done (right before the real merge I think), but holy hell is this season a complete train wreck. It's amazing how all over the place it is. They switch tribes twice before the merge for some reason! Corinne's repeatedly talking about stabbing people. Randy hates everyone. Everyone just seems miserable except for Sugar who seems to be having a blast, giggling throughout challenges and tribal council (when she's not crying) and maybe Charlie because he gets to be close to Marcus. Jeff is also particularly sexist this season, having his mind blown anytime someone chooses a female contestant over a man to be on their tribe and commenting on it repeatedly.  Maybe it's month 35 of quarantine, but I'm kind of loving how bizarre it is. And Kenny and Crystal are kind of an odd yet endearing pairing.

And Bob, Susie and Sugar may be the most bizarre Final 3 in the history of the show. 

Also, I was googling some of the players and learned that Ace is younger than Matty so that's my random fact of the day. 

Even when that man was Bob, for crying out loud. Jeff's "Previously on..." intros in Gabon made me so angry. He was really re-writing events to fit his own perception of how things were/should be going.

Ugh, Gabon. The only way I'd watch that season again is if it was a supercut of nothing but Susie, Paloma, and...that's it.

[Steph Sometimes]

3 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Even when that man was Bob, for crying out loud. Jeff's "Previously on..." intros in Gabon made me so angry. He was really re-writing events to fit his own perception of how things were/should be going.

Ugh, Gabon. The only way I'd watch that season again is if it was a supercut of nothing but Susie, Paloma, and...that's it.

Exactly. The last Previously gave all the credit of the Marcus/Charlie flips and blindsides to Kenny, even though Susie and then Sugar were the ones who flipped. Kenny, as well as Crystal, helped convince them, but it wasn't just him. It must've killed Jeff that the final 4 men were Randy (ugh), Kenny, Bob and Matty (who is typical surfer bro in looks but not the most proactive player and also slightly off-kilter). 

And I felt the same way about Gabon at first, but I got sucked in. These are mostly terrible people playing terribly. Also, has there ever been a player like Sugar? She's somehow simultaneously gives the vibe of being both the dumbest and smartest person there. I mean I blame her for basically engineering Bob's win (if I remember correctly), but just the fact that she sort of did whatever she wanted to like she was playing a whole different game is fascinating in its own weird way.

I wonder if there are any other seasons that I'll like more if I rewatch. I already know I'm going to skip Samoa because of how much of it was Hantz.

[AncientNewbie]

On 1/3/2021 at 12:34 PM, Steph Sometimes said:

I already know I'm going to skip Samoa because of how much of it was Hantz.

This is where I'm stuck in my rewatch...I want to be complete, although I've skipped around, but I can't really bring myself to watch 19 or 20 (lauded as it is) because 15ish eps of Russell talking about how smart Russell is really isn't worth the payoff. It may be narrative comeuppance but I could also use that time to watch anything else, like my new obsession of the Challenge, where the audience is in on the joke about how stupid they all are and not being led to what's edited to look like a victory.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Mario gives us the first part of an epic takedown on one of the biggest pantloads in the history of Survivor.

[Hera]

From the Funny115 takedown of Dan (quoted from a behind-the-scenes source on the show):

Quote

"Worlds Apart was intended to be a more Big Brother-like season of Survivor. It was designed to have maximum conflict. That's why people were specifically cast that were just going to hate one another. And the male cast was intentionally picked so they wouldn't get along with the females. That's how you wound up with Rodney, Dan, even others that you might not have seen in the edit. They set out to deliberately find men who were pigheaded/condescending/sexist/old school/guy's guys/cocky, whatever word you want to use. That was all by design. The show got exactly what it was hoping for when it came to that cast. They loved it."

And that right there is reason 4 squillion why I would never go on Survivor. I would not be okay with being deliberately placed with sexists (or really anyone who has different standards or expectations for people on the basis of a characteristic they have no control over) and I can't believe someone admitted that the producers/casting directors did just that. Can you imagine if it were just about anything else? "All the white cast was intentionally picked so they wouldn't get along with the people of color…They set out to deliberately find white people who were pigheaded/condescending/racist/old school/WASPy*/cocky, whatever word you want to use," or "All the straight cast was intentionally picked so that they wouldn't get along with the LGBT people…"

It really says a lot about the laziness (and awfulness) of the producers/casting agents that that's what they decided to do to create a high-conflict season.

*I realize WASPs are not the white person equivalent of a "guy's guy" but I had trouble coming up with something that was.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Hera said:

Can you imagine if it were just about anything else? "All the white cast was intentionally picked so they wouldn't get along with the people of color…They set out to deliberately find white people who were pigheaded/condescending/racist/old school/WASPy*/cocky, whatever word you want to use," or "All the straight cast was intentionally picked so that they wouldn't get along with the LGBT people…"

It really says a lot about the laziness (and awfulness) of the producers/casting agents that that's what they decided to do to create a high-conflict season.

*I realize WASPs are not the white person equivalent of a "guy's guy" but I had trouble coming up with something that was.

They did that !  With contestants like Colton and the racist guy on Russell's season, Ben Browning.

Also, Rudy in Season 1 was probably meant to dislike and not get along with Richard, but they got along anyway.

I'm sure there are way more examples because every season some aspect of the show's casting disgusts me in this way.

I think SOMEBODY in power in Survivor knew about Feely Dan's ways before the season started.  I don't give them any benefit of the doubt at all.

[Hera]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

They did that !  With contestants like Colton and the racist guy on Russell's season, Ben Browning.

For sure, but this is the first time I've heard of them setting out to make sure that half the cast will dislike the other half, and split along an obvious social line (in the case of Worlds Apart it was gender, rather than race). Colton and Ben were awful enough; I can't imagine a season where half the players were as reprehensible as they were.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Hera
Clarification

[Carolina Girl]

On 9/5/2020 at 9:44 PM, BK1978 said:

It was weird, yesterday Pluto was showing Survivor: Vanuatu

I started watching this a.m. at work (just to hear something other than the air from the vents!) and caught Season 1 on Pluto myself. starting with the episode just after Gretchen had been voted off.   The challenges were MUCH more difficult and yet far more interesting than the current crop of obstacle course and solve the puzzle.  The run through the jungle to answer questions about local folklore, or the one where they literally had to answer personal questions at the Tribal Council to win immunity.  Not only that, the final three walking to the immunity challenge was much more spiritual than it is now.  I completely forgot how really good this show was at the beginning.

And as much as I dislike Richard Hatch for his post-Survivor behavior, there is no question he was a genius in his planning and machinations.  And I may be alone in my (almost) equal dislike for Kelly Wigglesworth.  Her confessionals of angst and pathetic tooth gnashing over being part of the alliance was a little much for me.  Without that alliance, she would never have advanced in the game, as she would have been seen as a threat as much as Gretchen was and been taken out probably as early.  That's not to say that I don't give her full props for her immunity wins.  I just don't like her.  Oh, and Rudy, Sue and Rich could just as easily picked another person to form the alliance with and she would have been gone after the merge.  

 

[LadyChatts]

Quote

The show got exactly what it was hoping for when it came to that cast. They loved it."

Which may explain the surprise by TPTB that viewers hated it.  

I actually have never heard before, and it makes me pretty disgusted.  I mean, I feel like Dan (who'd been a regular on the casting circuit since season 2), basically got set up because they knew he was a terrible, sexist, disgusting bully (to put it mildly) and would create the kind of TV they wanted.  Same with Rodney.  I hate feeling like those two got a raw deal.  Same with Shirin, who I'm not a fan of, but if that's the angle they were going for, I can't help but think they noticed she might have been a little fragile, and decided it'd make such great TV to see her get screamed at about nobody loving her back home.  

 

[Hera]

5 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Same with Shirin, who I'm not a fan of, but if that's the angle they were going for, I can't help but think they noticed she might have been a little fragile, and decided it'd make such great TV to see her get screamed at about nobody loving her back home.

I think with Shirin they were definitely hoping she'd butt heads with people. I'm sure they noticed in casting that she doesn't shut up and they also would have known about her success in the tech industry. She was never going to "stay in her place" the way someone like Dan would want her to. And I say this as someone who doesn't like Shirin as a player and hope she never comes back (but I bet she'd be a fun friend to have in real life).

Now that I think about it, it might also explain why Kaôh Rōng had similarly awful people (Kyle Jason and Scot), since it was filming as Season 30 aired, and the producers wouldn't have had a chance to change course in the wake of Season 30. It might also explain why Millennials vs. Gen X had such a comparatively nice cast. Seriously, if I ever did lose my mind and decide to play Survivor, I would want to have been in that cast and its dearth of raging assholes. The next season I watched was Ghost Island, which also seemed like a group of reasonable people. There definitely were people on both seasons I wouldn't have particularly gotten along with, but I don't remember anyone going after anyone else the way Will did to Shirin, or throwing the tantrums around camp that Scot and Jason did.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Hera
Fixing formattig issues.

[LadyChatts]

17 minutes ago, Hera said:

I think with Shirin they were definitely hoping she'd butt heads with people. I'm sure they noticed in casting that she doesn't shut up and they also would have known about her success in the tech industry. She was never going to "stay in her place" they way someone like Dan would want her to. And I say this as someone who doesn't like Shirin as a player and hope she never comes back (but I bet she'd be a fun friend to have in real life).

Now that I think about it, it might also explain why Kaôh Rōng had similarly awful people (Kyle Jason and Scot), since it was filming as Season 30 aired, and the producers wouldn't have had a chance to change course in the wake of Season 30. It might also explain why Millennials vs. Gen X had such a comparatively nice cast. Seriously, if I ever did lose my mind and decide to play Survivor, I would want to have been in that cast and its dearth of raging assholes. The next season I watched was Ghost Island, which also seemed like a group of reasonable people. There definitely were people on both seasons I wouldn't have particularly gotten along with, but I don't remember anyone going after anyone else the way Will did to Shirin, or throwing the tantrums around camp that Scot and Jason did.

Yeah, I mean Ghost Island had the Naviti tribe, but that was probably more high school level obnoxiousness with some of them ("Naviti Strong!")  I think they would be annoying to be around, but not at the level of having to endure Dan, Rodney, Kyle, or Scot.  And that did seem like a close cast.  MvsGX wasn't my favorite to the extent of most people, mostly because of the outcome, but it did seem like a nice, friendly cast who didn't take things super personal.  And that little booger Adam did redeem himself for me this past season.    

I remember how much Probst and TPTB hyped up World's Apart as being a great season, one of Probst's favorites (now I can see why), and it was reported that he actually stopped a TC halfway through the season to tell the cast how much he was enjoying himself and wanted them all to come back and play...makes more sense now.  Like you mentioned with Shirin, I can see now why they might have cast Max.  Like Shirin, he was a self-proclaimed Survivor super fan/nerd, and never shut up.  So Max may have been considered maybe a foil to the douche bros.  Mike's underdog edit is making a lot more sense now, too.  Maybe that's why they decided to go with a fan voted returning player season, so they didn't have two completely ugly seasons back to back.  

Well, I already disliked this season, so this is yet another reason to hate on it.

Edited January 23, 2021 by LadyChatts

[BK1978]

On 1/22/2021 at 4:08 PM, Carolina Girl said:

I started watching this a.m. at work (just to hear something other than the air from the vents!) and caught Season 1 on Pluto myself. starting with the episode just after Gretchen had been voted off.   The challenges were MUCH more difficult and yet far more interesting than the current crop of obstacle course and solve the puzzle.  The run through the jungle to answer questions about local folklore, or the one where they literally had to answer personal questions at the Tribal Council to win immunity.  Not only that, the final three walking to the immunity challenge was much more spiritual than it is now.  I completely forgot how really good this show was at the beginning.

And as much as I dislike Richard Hatch for his post-Survivor behavior, there is no question he was a genius in his planning and machinations.  And I may be alone in my (almost) equal dislike for Kelly Wigglesworth.  Her confessionals of angst and pathetic tooth gnashing over being part of the alliance was a little much for me.  Without that alliance, she would never have advanced in the game, as she would have been seen as a threat as much as Gretchen was and been taken out probably as early.  That's not to say that I don't give her full props for her immunity wins.  I just don't like her.  Oh, and Rudy, Sue and Rich could just as easily picked another person to form the alliance with and she would have been gone after the merge.  

 

I never watched the first season when it aired live (I saw bits of episodes here and there.  Mainly because I live in Rhode Island and with Richard being from here he was an even bigger deal than he was nationally.  So I felt obligated to watch a little bit of it.), my first full season was the Amazon (Though I did watch the final episode of Thailand and as stated before, I saw some of season one.).  In fact, the first time I saw Sue, Rich, Jenna, and Rudy was on All-Stars.  I finally did by the season one DVD shortly after All-Stars.

When I finally did see season one I immediately disliked Kelly W., I am not sure why but I just did.  Maybe it was like you said about how she would complain about being in an alliance.  I also fell hard for Colleen, I just loved her personality and she was cute as well which did not hurt. 

My favorite first season challenge was the folklore one.  Because I would have been like Rudy.  I would not have paid attention to the story at all and then I would have run around saying, "I don't know."

[Guest]

With all the little Angelina bits Mario has managed to sneak in (she's the FU Brad Culpepper in this one, for example), it's a shame there probably won't be a Funny 115 Part 4. It seems like he views her as I do, as a humorous "villain" stand-in, as opposed to a horrible person, which seems to be some other people's take on her. I'd be curious to read his Angelina character entry.

[Steph Sometimes]

I'm watching Tocantins (just have the finale left). It's not a bad season and it certainly is fun watching everyone on the other tribe just falling in love with JT. I remember during Philippines joking to a friend that I felt like half the contestants (male and female) were in love with Malcolm, but they weren't tripping over themselves to make sure he advanced and won the game like everyone was with JT.

Love Stephen, Taj and Erinn. I wonder why Erinn never returned. She's cute and a great narrator.

But wow do I hate Coach. I think I just remember him and Jerri on HvV which was kind of oddly sweet and then as the cult leader on SP, which was more weird than anything else, so I forgot how toxic he is on this season. I'm not talking about him talking about dragons and wizards and the natives wanting to eat his butt or whatever (I fast-forwarded a lot of his scenes), but the way he treats any woman on his tribe who's not Debbie is really unpleasant. He's practically Spilo-esque around Candice, touching her and demanding she kiss him and he's so over-the-top terrible to Sierra and Erinn (he switched back and forth on who his target was depending on his mood I guess).

I go back and forth on Tyson. At the very least, he's in on the joke in a way that Coach isn't and can be funny, but he isn't my favorite. I remember how he flamed out on HvV, but I don't remember how I felt about him on BvW. I plan to watch BvW at some point, but I haven't decided on HvV.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Steph Sometimes

[Hera]

31 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

Love Stephen, Taj and Erinn.

Those three were my favorites as well. Whatever JT had that made everyone on that season fall in love with him didn't translate through the TV for me.

32 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I go back and forth on Tyson. At the very least, he's in on the joke in a way that Coach isn't and can be funny, but he isn't my favorite.

For me, Tyson got better with each return. I tend to like his type of humor, but not when it's punching down, and on Tocantins it seemed like he punched down a lot—Sierra was on the bottom of her tribe, so jokes at her expense or excitement about tormenting her seemed mean (and, to me, came across as a school boy who's torturing the girl he secretly has a crush on). Also, ironic humor relies on the audience having the context to understand that the speaker is being ironic. Since it was Tyson's first go-round, I didn't have that context and thought he just came across as an asshole. But I did find him funny on later seasons. I think he got better at finding appropriate targets for his humor and I learned that he never intended to be taken seriously anyway.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

Love Stephen, Taj and Erinn.

The first time I watched this season I was soooooooo enamoured with Taj and Brendan.  I watched it again last year and I don't think I felt the same.  Brendan was totally fine but I don't remember why I was so head over heels.  I forgot the whole conflict with Taj and Stephen and I forgot Taj made it so far.  The whole thing was kind of awkward.  I don't even remember the conflict now but it was kind of tough to watch.  I think Taj was really hurt by Stephen.  

Edited January 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay