S10.E08: Cornelia Marie Blue

[formerlyfreedom]

Opilio season kicks off with the return of the fabled Cornelia Marie. After a 3-year struggle Josh Harris bought back the boat that helped make his old man a legend. 18-year-old Mandy Hansen arrives to convince her father Sig to take her fishing.

 

 

[SweePea59]

Well, I would much rather watch the exploitation of the Harris and Hansen children than have to endure even one more second of Eliot or Jr.

[pasandola]

Is there going to be exploitation of a Harris child? Is Josh's daughter going to be on the show, too?

[BusyOctober]

Does anyone have the real deal on Josh and his ownership of the boat?  Is he part owner?  I don't think Phil owned the CM outright so I doubt it was part of his estate.  Does Josh have his own quota or does he lease one?  Does Josh have a captain's license like Jake A earned?  If not, can he still run the boat?

 

I've been watching this show for years but I'm not clear on the licensing/captain title or how a boat gets their own quota vs. having to lease it. Thanks for any knowledge some of you can share!

[kassa]

I think the CM is under the size where an actual "captain's license" is necessary.  Hopefully the people who actually own the ship and the gear are insisting on an experienced man to run it, whether he's a licensed captain or not. 

 

However, I have no doubt that this person will be introduced to us as a relief skipper, while Josh will be sitting in the big boy seat... at least while the cameras are on.

[Lisin]

I have no idea how reliable this info is, but according to Wikipedia Josh owns the CM. 

[kassa]

Phil owned 25% or less of it, despite the show referring to him the entire time as the owner.  Split among all his children, that didn't leave Josh much of a share (even if he only left it to Jake and Josh).  And I don't think he owned any quota, or not enough to fish on by itself.

 

Maybe Cornelia Marie sold her shares to some kind of silent partnership and Josh is the lead guy, but I don't see how he could possibly qualify for a boat loan based on his track record.  Though I suppose I'd say the same about Elliott.  And I think I saw lately some reference to some cannery owning the Saga, so Elliott's "ownership" is also dubious.

[Lisin]

From everything I've read Josh purchased the boat, I'm assuming he bought out the other partners but I don't know. Every article on the subject says he bought the CM back in 2013. 

[breezy424]

I think the CM is under the size where an actual "captain's license" is necessary.  Hopefully the people who actually own the ship and the gear are insisting on an experienced man to run it, whether he's a licensed captain or not. 

 

However, I have no doubt that this person will be introduced to us as a relief skipper, while Josh will be sitting in the big boy seat... at least while the cameras are on.

Apparently the CM is198 gross tons and is under the size where a captain's license is needed.  This was something that was bugging me for a while and I finally found the answer:

 

http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/fsb/references/federal_requirements_pamphlet.pdf

 

Only vessels over 200 gross tonnage require captains, engineers and mates to have a license.   Here's the gross tonnage of all the boats:

 

http://deadliestreports.wordpress.com/the-fleet/

 

I apologize if this has all been gone over before....

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Josh has an ownership interest in the CM.  He is NOT the majority owner.  Some believe Trident (a processor) bought the majority interest.  The prior owners are 100% out now.  Josh does not have his captain's license.

 

The CM just went out to tender for salmon season.  Josh is aboard, as is Discovery.  You can bet $ that there will be a special on the CM, much like the one done on the Northwestern this past year.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Lonesome Rhodes

[BusyOctober]

I'm going to record tonight's show rather than watch it live so I can FF thru Josh's time on camera. He may not be a bad person, but I just don't like the guy.  He's no Captain Phil and he comes across as mugging for the camera IMO.  I am very happy Freddy is staying on the Wizard and didn't go back to the CM. I thought Josh mentioned in the past he was going to try to lure Freddy back.  I think Freddy knows he will make solid cash w/ Keith/Monte vs. working with an untested Josh. 

 

Between Elliott & Josh FF-ing, my Deadliest Catch viewing will be down to 15 min before the end of the season.

[kassa]

 

I thought Josh mentioned in the past he was going to try to lure Freddy back.

It was worse than that -- he said (I think on after the catch, or the bait) that of COURSE Freddie would come back, because Freddie loved his father so much.  Ignoring that he himself had left Freddie in the lurch after Freddie stood by the CM instead of taking other jobs after Phil died.  And despite what we all saw on camera, that Freddie hero worshipped Keith (AND made a hell of a lot more money with him than he had with Phil).

 

Maybe Josh has been humbled, but it will be very hard for me to forgive his treatment of Derek until he apologizes for it.   Plus I don't like all the pretending -- even Johnathan and Andy have been rolling their eyes at him the last couple of years when the topic comes up.  

 

Re: the captain's thing, Sig said in an interview once that they don't need captains licenses, though he (and I think Keith and Monty) have them because you get a break on insurance and various other things. 

[iluvobx]

I had read that Josh went out on the CM for tendering.  Thought that maybe, just maybe, he decided to be a fisherman and not a tv person.  Then it was reported that Discovery was filming on board.  So much for that.  Josh is there because the cameras are there.  I understand it is for a special on the CM like they have done with the NW and Time Bandit.

Don't believe Josh and Jake are sole owners.  They might have a small percentage like Phil.  At this point, if Josh is saying something, then I believe the opposite.  Not sure how I can stomach Josh & Elliott in the same episode.  Upside, I did read that Travis is on the CM.

[Steff]

Years ago I would have never thought it would be a Harris that drives me away from DC.  But tonight I opted to DVR Deadliest Catch & watch Top Gear instead.  Loved ya Phil, but your boys are nowhere near the man you were. 

[Soopertater]

1.  Disco does not own  the Corneila Marie.

2.  Trident Seafoods does not own the Cornelia Marie.

3.  Cornelia Devlin no longer has an ownership interest in the vessel.

 

Here we go:

1.  The CM is owned by F/V/ Cornelia Marie, LLC, a Washington corporation

https://alaskafisheries.noaa.gov/ram/daily/cratfcvp.csv

2.  The members of that corporation are Joshua Harris and Phil Harris Enterpises, Inc., a Washington corporation

http://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?ubi=602258633

3.  The owners of that corporation are Joshua Harris and Jacob Harris

http://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?ubi=601295042

4.  Joshua Harris personally owns at least 2 crab rationalization quota permits.

[merylinkid]

Man, right in the feels with Jonathan and his health.   Remembering what happened to Phil and taking care of himself.

 

Speaking of Phil, way to milk his memory Disco with the flashbacks.   Geez.   The P in RIP means peace.   Let the poor man go.

 

Also right in the feels, all the Captains talking about Jr.  They may have made fun of his last year with his legend talk, but they do respect him and his work ethic.  

 

On the other hand, way contrived moment having Edgar go talk to Elliott about addiction.   I hope Elliott stays clean just because that is best for everyone.   But with his babbling about staying clean for his kids, his family, etc shows there are problems.   Unless you want to stay clean for yourself and understand the daily struggle it is, it won't work.   

 

Sig, would you still be encouraging a son to do something else besides fish?   On the other hand, he has a point.   Big strong men have trouble with the physical nature of crab fishing.  It might tough for Mandy to make it on a crab boat.

[breezy424]

Soooo, it looks like Josh and Jake do own the CM.  Josh and Jake don't bother me as much as other  posters.  Good for them.  Hopefully Jake will get his act together and the two of them will succeed. 

 

Jon's blood pressure is through the roof.

 

Is that it for Mandy after all the promos or does she come back at some point.  I don't think I've ever seen Norman talk and appear on camera so much in an episode. 

 

Anyone watch The Bait.  Seems like there's a little tension between Andy and Jon over who should take over the boat eventually.  Andy made it very clear to Jon that there are three owners.  I don't know what it is about Scotti but I just don't care for him.  Maybe, it's his seeming attitude of entitlement.

 

I liked how Andy had to eat his words about women being on a crab boat. 

 

There also seemed to be a bit of tension between Sig and Mandy on the show.  Sig is a protective 'dad'.  Yeah, if Mandy was a boy, Sig would have a whole different attitude about her being on the boat but I get that.

 

It's nice to see Zack and Bill developing a good father/son relationship.  He's come a long way and he seems like a nice kid. 

[millennium]

Speaking of Phil, way to milk his memory Disco with the flashbacks.   Geez.   The P in RIP means peace.   Let the poor man go.

 

I was thinking that perhaps Discovery's FX department can find some way to use clips of Phil from past shows, make them semi-transparent, and insert them into current footage so that Phil can periodically appear to dispense Obi Wan-like advice to Josh. 

 

By far the dullest episode of this show I have ever seen.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The Harris family does not own a majority interest in that boat.  Their financial backers do.  The best guess is that Trident is the money behind them.  It is no coinkydink that Casey was rocking a Trident shirt on The Bait.  Who paid, and how much did they pay, for the quota they had?  No way the Harris' have the kind of cash to buy a boat and pay for quota without majority partners.

 

The Harris boys may have operational./management control at the behest of the moneyed interests behind them, but they do not have majority equity.

 

What a fraud Disco promos laid on us.  I am glad Mandy didn't actually go out for the start of opies.  

 

Loved seeing Edgar doing yet another MacGyver act.  What an engineer that guy is!

 

Great to see another example of captain helping captain at sea.  I'm happy that Edgar figured something out, but it would have been great watching Sig directing Jake at the wheel whilst dropping pots.  

 

I would have been absolutely fine without any of the Elliot saga.  It was a dick move by Disco to tape Edgar's reaching out.  I suspect they suggested it.  No doubt they were behind the S.H.I.T presentation by the Hillstrands.  Couldn't they have managed to include a burn barrel with these events?

[Soopertater]

There's difference between "owns" and "mortgaged to."  "Owns" = has title to/legal ownership of.  Much like having the Deed to real estate or to an airplane hull.  "Mortgaged to" = pledged a security interest in said property for consideration.  And just the same as the bank holding the mortgage to your home, banks and lenders cannot tell you to replace the leaking faucet in the kitchen any more than a bank holding a perfected marine mortgage can tell you where to go fishing.  You don't pay = you default on your loan agreement, and the mortgagee can exercise their security interest when and only when that happens.   Do you walk around telling people you own your home, or do you tell them Wells Fargo Bank owns it?

 

I don't get the beef with Josh Harris?  That he's using DC to get some extra money for the boat?  Of course he is.  They ALL are.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Soopertater

[terrymct]

I had read that Josh went out on the CM for tendering.  Thought that maybe, just maybe, he decided to be a fisherman and not a tv person.  Then it was reported that Discovery was filming on board.  So much for that.  Josh is there because the cameras are there.  I understand it is for a special on the CM like they have done with the NW and Time Bandit.

Don't believe Josh and Jake are sole owners.  They might have a small percentage like Phil.  At this point, if Josh is saying something, then I believe the opposite.  Not sure how I can stomach Josh & Elliott in the same episode.  Upside, I did read that Travis is on the CM.

 

 

I agree with you.  Josh is there for the cameras.  That said, I was actually pleasantly surprised by him in this episode.  He appears to have grown up a bit in the past couple of years and was behaving, well, professionally.   He didn't abuse or harass the captain who is helping him and even appeared to take advice.   

 

I was fascinated, however, by the Northwestern.  I love the Hansen's family dynamics, they're a loving bunch but do knock heads once in a while.  I suspect Sig is going to be giving in with regard to his daughter.  She's got his backbone.   The issue with the steering was neat to watch.  There was a major problem and you saw a group of professionals work their way through the options.  That's the show I know and love.

 

Saga, I honestly just don't care about that ship or Elliot.  He needs to take a break from the show, continue to work through his addictions, and sort out his life...off camera. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks, please calm down a bit in here. And let's move on from the conversation about who owns what, okay? No more debate on that topic, I appreciate it.

Edited June 11, 2014 by stacey

[Neurochick]

I don't mind Josh or care about who or what owns the CM.  I hope that Josh is serious, but time will tell.  I hate to be so cynical about things, because cynicism upsets my stomach.  That said:

 

How long was Elliot out of rehab?  I don't think he should be fishing so soon.

 

I guess Jr's really gone.  I wonder if he will ever fish again.

 

Poor Jon, good he's off the boat though, he needs to take care of himself and lay off the cigarettes.

 

Edgar is awesome.  I'm glad he talked to Elliot and it's true that you have to stay sober for yourself long term; but many people start by telling themselves they're getting sober for their kids and stick around anyway.

 

I really liked this episode but I have a bone to pick with Disco.  There was a show that aired at midnight, "Deadliest Catch: uncut" or something like that, where they just showed them fishing with no narration.  Well, fuck Disco, it ain't "uncut" if you bleep out the language. 

Edited June 11, 2014 by Neurochick

[kassa]

Wonder if that soundless version is to avoid paying Mike Rowe royalties for the reruns?  Much like the silly canned intros he prerecords for the bait probably garner him a voice over check instead of an appearance check.

 

I was thinking that perhaps Discovery's FX department can find some way to use clips of Phil from past shows, make them semi-transparent, and insert them into current footage so that Phil can periodically appear to dispense Obi Wan-like advice to Josh.

 

That made me laugh.  Or just have his face hovering outside the wheelhouse window.  I found it interesting that they pulled up Derek a couple of times.  I know the actual CM operator reframed what he said as Phil not doing them a disservice, but merely not able to teach people who didn't want to learn. 

 

However, to a certain extent he did do them a disservice, and he admitted as much.  Phil admitted paying them full share when they weren't full share because he wanted so badly for them to stick around with him on the boat because he loved having them there so much.  I think that definitely helped foster the "I'll give you 75% and we'll all pretend it's 100%" mentality that Josh had the last few years.    He definitely showed some maturity last night, so good luck to him.  But he had a few slips on The Bait -- "I've paid my dues..." only to backtrack a few minutes later saying he had to "pay his stripes" (sic).  At one point Andy was looking at him like he couldn't believe what he was saying.   And they asked him about the captain's license and made sure to play up the importance of the "experienced guy."

 

The Time Bandit has never been my favorite boat, and I've never cared for Scottie, but I remember thinking he was right when he had a new baby and decided he wasn't going to have the same (absentee) relationship with his kids that his Dad had with him.  I'm glad he has stuck with that.  Andy is sticking to the "you're married to the boat" mentality and I presume is backing Axel or whoever Neil's son is for next in line to the throne.  I hope Scottie continues to choose balance with family over the family bragging rights.

 

Did anybody else notice when all the NW guys bit the herring head, and they were all spitting and retching, Norman just stood there, placidly chewing his? 

[cotterpin]

I saw pics the NW posted on their FB page of Norm and his bride, handsome couple.  I remarked to Mr Cotter as well about seeing more of Norm in one episode than we had in 10 years (plus the original special and the miniseries)

 

Scotty was a bit of a douche his first season or two on the DB, but he's progressed and kept it pretty low key. Andy is a dick, his marriage failed and I am sure his relationship with his kids sucks balls, so why not make Scotty have a shitty personal life too? Of course he'll back Neil's kid right now, because he's not leaving for the summer to spend time with his kid. Scotty just got major undouching points for sticking to his guns for wanting to be a father to his child, not just some guy who sends money and pops in on occasion.

 

Johnathan only started going out for Opies again about the time of the TB becoming the DB and them hamming it up for the cameras. Their first season, Johnathan had said that he captains kings and Andy is deck boss, during Opies Andy runs the boat and Johnathan goes home because he can't do the physical activities anymore. And poor Neil is like the redheaded stepchild. But glad to see Johnathan caring less about the cameras and staying home for opies like he should. The whole DB has really come a long way from being the DB, but they still will always be the DB now :p

 

Josh does appear to have had some personal growth. He seems to have learned a lot in retrospect about his bullshit season with Derrick Ray (because I happen to believe Mr Ray's account of Josh only coming aboard and fishing the 2 weeks and cutting the season when Disco was done......)

 

The Eliot/Edgar thing reeked of being a producer set up.

 

Jr? I haven't missed him. I wonder if he still has Kado (Kevin Davis, the greenhorn who fell into the water on the miniseries only to slip and twist an ankle as a deckhand on season 1).

 

Phil in the hospital. Dying. My eyes may have leaked. Gah, I miss that man.

[Lorimar263]

It was an easy episode to watch. Even Elliott didn't make me want to punch the screen this week.

[breezy424]

I kind of got the feeling that Andy didn't like it that Jon is just assuming that his son would take over the boat.  The decision is up to the three of them, not just Jon.  What about Neil?  He's the youngest of the brothers.  I also understand that Andy is concerned about Scotty's dedication to the time he'd have to put in if he was eventually to take over as captain.  Yeah, it's great that Scotty wants to be with his son but he really can't do both. 

 

I did noticed and laughed when Norm was quietly eating the herring.  I'm glad he's 'participating' more in front of the camera.

 

Yeah, the Edgar/Elliot thing was probably a producer set up but it made me like Edgar even more.

[walnutqueen]

Josh Harris has a long row to hoe before he gains the acceptance of the captains and until he does, he's just Discoing to the cameras for me.  Andy had the right instincts on The Bait when Josh had the balls to say "I've paid my dues".  He practically screamed Phil's line at Josh : "You gotta EARN it!".   Apparently, none of them think he has - yet.

[millennium]

I'll miss Jonathan this season.   He's one of the show's most colorful characters.  He would have made a great pirate.

[terrymct]

Josh Harris has a long row to hoe before he gains the acceptance of the captains and until he does, he's just Discoing to the cameras for me.  Andy had the right instincts on The Bait when Josh had the balls to say "I've paid my dues".  He practically screamed Phil's line at Josh : "You gotta EARN it!".   Apparently, none of them think he has - yet.

 

 

I can understand their point.  He's apparently straightened himself out and gotten back to the starting line, the point from which he'll START paying his dues.

[kassa]

That's a good way to put it, Terrymct. 

 

Andy was my favorite (or tied with Sig) the first year he was on, before he lost his sobriety and really, really tanked himself in my eyes.  He's bounced back a lot the last couple of seasons, but I miss early Andy, who seemed so above it all and cool and calm compared to Johnathan.   Once I saw his angry side it's hard to unsee it.

 

However, I can see where he's coming from on Scottie's situation.  As much as we might disapprove of the lifestyle they grew up in, it's what they consider normal.  And if there are family members (Neil's kid or whoever) or even non family members (like Mike Fourtner before he went out on his own) who are willing to give it year round dedication, the least they deserve is credit and reward for doing so.

 

Early on in the series the show established that King crab, especially, is reserved for people who have put in their hours the rest of the year when the pay is not in the tens of thousands per month.  We've seen deckhands bounced because they were above showing up to prep the gear, but wanted the big paycheck.  It's only fair that the guy who's in the shipyard scraping rust gets a spot on deck over the guy who just wants to work when there's 30-40K to be had.

 

This is where the family dynamic complicates matters -- because Neil and Johnathan are going to advocate for their kids, and Andy will be a tie breaker.  And there might be very solid reasons why Scottie is a better bet than another relative even if he's not there 52 weeks a year... but when it comes to family, saying "____'s better, even if you work harder" is going to cause divisions.  

[millennium]

All this conflict about who works when on the Time Bandit ... did I miss something?   I don't remember any of this from the episode.

[OSM Mom]

I think it was on The Bait where the Hillstrands were discussing it.

[SweePea59]

Same with the Viking princess, Sig's daughter. All this build-up and she was on The Bait more than the show, which she was barely on. I'm beginning to think it's The Bait & Switch.

[Curious5]

Something is fishy (pun intended) about the Harris boys owning the ship.  Jake been a druggie for at least 2 years and addiction centers cost money.  After Phil died there was some starting a collection  'cause the boys were left next to nothing.  I'm afraid  Josh is really hamming it up about the relationship with the father.  It just seems so fake.  I'm afraid Disc is forcing a story line that is false.  Remember - it IS a reality show and we know how these go.

Josh says he has always wanted to fish but I remember in the beginning he wanted no part of it - that's how they explained only Jake was on the ship.

[cotterpin]

Way back when, Josh admitted he only got on the boat because of the cameras and he wanted a career as a tv producer or something. IIRC, he put it on his myspace page. It was there for quite a time and then POOF it was gone and the new "spend time with daddy/fulfill my destiny because I love fishing" crap started. And Curious is correct in his/her recollections of why Jake was the only one on the boat.. Phil thought JAKE would be the one to sit in the Captain's chair because he was more the fisherman, Jake was "college boy". Of course, this was pre druggie Jake.......

 

I agree, too, there is no way they raised all the money themselves. There has to be a silent backer in there somewhere.

[millennium]

I think it was on The Bait where the Hillstrands were discussing it.

 

I see.   I don't watch The Bait.    I find I'm not very interested in anything those guys have to say outside the wheelhouse.

 

I watch for  the man vs. nature aspect of the show, rather than the soap operas that too frequently (in my opinion) impose upon screen time that could be better spent focusing on the job at hand.   Of course, when the reality show pap is foisted upon you by the show -- for example, the whole fiasco that is Elliot -- it's hard not to have an opinion about it

[Lisin]

Guys we've already asked you to drop the ownership issue. Thanks.

[millennium]

I agree with you.  Josh is there for the cameras.  That said, I was actually pleasantly surprised by him in this episode.  He appears to have grown up a bit in the past couple of years and was behaving, well, professionally.   He didn't abuse or harass the captain who is helping him and even appeared to take advice.   

Call me cynical.  I suspect the new "responsible" Josh is a put-on for the cameras.   He has to be aware of all the bad feelings he and his brother have generated over the years.   You know what they say about leopards and spots.  We'll see how long the "we have to do what's best for the crew" attitude lasts once he starts getting comfortable again.

[JTMacc99]

The Eliot/Edgar thing reeked of being a producer set up.

It is hard to imagine that it wasn't. But that doesn't bother me too much. Discovery probably introduced them to each other in the first place. If they have any relationship, it would be through their Deadliest Catch connection. And even if it is just a professional connection through the show, it is still plausible that if the two of them were in the same area that Edgar would reach out to Elliot to pass along some wisdom in what I am sure is a similar way to what somebody did to him at some point.