Kim Richards: No Escape from Witch Mountain

[BlackMamba]

The thing that I cannot understand is what has made Kim turn on Kyle in such a manner. During most of S3 and all of S4, they seemed to be in such a good place. Clearly something has happened to change this.

When talking about the upcoming episode where Kim seems to hint at issues in the Lisar/HH marriage, I remembered that Kim didn't like it when folks were talking about the Mauricio cheating rumors. I checked out her blog from that episode, and she had this to say:

"As far as the conversation that took place regarding unfaithfulness, I will say that this is something that really bothered me. I love my sister very much, and when she is sad I am sad. It is very difficult to be in this world and not be hurt by the rumors and comments that people make up. There is a time and place for everything, and that conversation should have never been brought up."

This also got me thinking about the talk from both Brandi and Kim that Kyle isn't "there" for Kim, whatever that may mean. I got to wondering what Kim thought about Brandi making such an accusation originally at the S3 reunion. This is what she had to say about that at the time:

"The thing that really confuses me, is she said how I was her friend, and I do believe I am! So WHY!?! Why be so mean? I guess I don't fully understand her -- like when she said my sister secretly doesn’t want me to make it! I know in my heart Brandi doesn't want that for me, and she knows my sister doesn't want that for me! So WHY? Only Brandi knows!"

It's so strange that Kim seemed to see things much more clearly during these times. She didn't like what Brandi was saying about Kyle, and didn't like that folks were gossiping about Kyle's marriage. She is nothing except supportive of Kyle up until at least a year ago.

It might all sound crazy, but I think that Kingsley is at the root of a lot of this. Brandi and Kim keep talking about the fact that they started getting close 6 months ago. 6 months ago would have been March, when something very big happened. That is when Kingsley bit Kim's friend. According to the friend, Kim was hysterical that she not make a big deal out of the bite, as she might lose her job, and have to put Kingsley down. I can imagine that Kyle wasn't as supportive as Kim would have liked during this time frame. She always stated she was nervous about the dog, and I could easily imagine her becoming disgusted and telling Kim to get rid of the goddamn dog. Brandi might have been much more supportive. She mentioned last year at one point that she got Kim's attachment to Kingsley as she had the same attachment to her dogs. She talked about her kids being gone with Eddie 50% of the time and it was just her and the dog. She said she could completely understand Kim's need to have Kingsley in her life. Is it possible that Kim turned to Brandi at this time? Maybe she was saying things about not being able to go on if someone took Kingsley away and Kyle didn't take this as serious as Kim and Brandi thought that she should have. For some reason, from the very beginning, I thought the 2am phone call involved something about the dog. It would be interesting if that was in fact the case, considering that just days after filming ended Kingsley bit Alexis.

Excellent post. You gave me a lot to think about.

[imjagain]

The thing that I cannot understand is what has made Kim turn on Kyle in such a manner. During most of S3 and all of S4, they seemed to be in such a good place. Clearly something has happened to change this.

When talking about the upcoming episode where Kim seems to hint at issues in the Lisar/HH marriage, I remembered that Kim didn't like it when folks were talking about the Mauricio cheating rumors. I checked out her blog from that episode, and she had this to say:

"As far as the conversation that took place regarding unfaithfulness, I will say that this is something that really bothered me. I love my sister very much, and when she is sad I am sad. It is very difficult to be in this world and not be hurt by the rumors and comments that people make up. There is a time and place for everything, and that conversation should have never been brought up."

This also got me thinking about the talk from both Brandi and Kim that Kyle isn't "there" for Kim, whatever that may mean. I got to wondering what Kim thought about Brandi making such an accusation originally at the S3 reunion. This is what she had to say about that at the time:

"The thing that really confuses me, is she said how I was her friend, and I do believe I am! So WHY!?! Why be so mean? I guess I don't fully understand her -- like when she said my sister secretly doesn’t want me to make it! I know in my heart Brandi doesn't want that for me, and she knows my sister doesn't want that for me! So WHY? Only Brandi knows!"

It's so strange that Kim seemed to see things much more clearly during these times. She didn't like what Brandi was saying about Kyle, and didn't like that folks were gossiping about Kyle's marriage. She is nothing except supportive of Kyle up until at least a year ago.

It might all sound crazy, but I think that Kingsley is at the root of a lot of this. Brandi and Kim keep talking about the fact that they started getting close 6 months ago. 6 months ago would have been March, when something very big happened. That is when Kingsley bit Kim's friend. According to the friend, Kim was hysterical that she not make a big deal out of the bite, as she might lose her job, and have to put Kingsley down. I can imagine that Kyle wasn't as supportive as Kim would have liked during this time frame. She always stated she was nervous about the dog, and I could easily imagine her becoming disgusted and telling Kim to get rid of the goddamn dog. Brandi might have been much more supportive. She mentioned last year at one point that she got Kim's attachment to Kingsley as she had the same attachment to her dogs. She talked about her kids being gone with Eddie 50% of the time and it was just her and the dog. She said she could completely understand Kim's need to have Kingsley in her life. Is it possible that Kim turned to Brandi at this time? Maybe she was saying things about not being able to go on if someone took Kingsley away and Kyle didn't take this as serious as Kim and Brandi thought that she should have. For some reason, from the very beginning, I thought the 2am phone call involved something about the dog. It would be interesting if that was in fact the case, considering that just days after filming ended Kingsley bit Alexis.

Thanks for posting this.

The blog really seals it for me. I wrote in the now closed thread(sorry), that Kim IMO was back to drinking not just abusing pills. She is just so different and angry like Kim from the first couple seasons.

She is clear thinking in her blogs you posted.

Drunk Kim = angry Kim.

And, yeah, it might sound strange but, I agree, the dog might have a lot to do with her anger towards Kyle.

Edited March 2, 2015 by imjagain

[zoeysmom]

The thing that I cannot understand is what has made Kim turn on Kyle in such a manner. During most of S3 and all of S4, they seemed to be in such a good place. Clearly something has happened to change this.

 

When talking about the upcoming episode where Kim seems to hint at issues in the Lisar/HH marriage, I remembered that Kim didn't like it when folks were talking about the Mauricio cheating rumors. I checked out her blog from that episode, and she had this to say:

 

"As far as the conversation that took place regarding unfaithfulness, I will say that this is something that really bothered me. I love my sister very much, and when she is sad I am sad. It is very difficult to be in this world and not be hurt by the rumors and comments that people make up. There is a time and place for everything, and that conversation should have never been brought up."

 

This also got me thinking about the talk from both Brandi and Kim that Kyle isn't "there" for Kim, whatever that may mean. I got to wondering what Kim thought about Brandi making such an accusation originally at the S3 reunion.  This is what she had to say about that at the time:

 

"The thing that really confuses me, is she said how I was her friend, and I do believe I am! So WHY!?!  Why be so mean? I guess I don't fully understand her -- like when she said my sister secretly doesn’t want me to make it! I know in my heart Brandi doesn't want that for me, and she knows my sister doesn't want that for me! So WHY? Only Brandi knows!"

 

It's so strange that Kim seemed to see things much more clearly during these times. She didn't like what Brandi was saying about Kyle, and didn't like that folks were gossiping about Kyle's marriage.  She is nothing except supportive of Kyle up until at least a year ago. 

 

It might all sound crazy, but I think that Kingsley is at the root of a lot of this. Brandi and Kim keep talking about the fact that they started getting close 6 months ago. 6 months ago would have been March, when something very big happened.  That is when Kingsley bit Kim's friend. According to the friend, Kim was hysterical that she not make a big deal out of the bite, as she might lose her job, and have to put Kingsley down. I can imagine that Kyle wasn't as supportive as Kim would have liked during this time frame. She always stated she was nervous about the dog, and I could easily imagine her becoming disgusted and telling Kim to get rid of the goddamn dog. Brandi might have been much more supportive. She mentioned last year at one point that she got Kim's attachment to Kingsley as she had the same attachment to her dogs. She talked about her kids being gone with Eddie 50% of the time and it was just her and the dog. She said she could completely understand Kim's need to have Kingsley in her life. Is it possible that Kim turned to Brandi at this time? Maybe she was saying things about not being able to go on if someone took Kingsley away and Kyle didn't take this as serious as Kim and Brandi thought that she should have. For some reason, from the very beginning, I thought the 2am phone call involved something about the dog. It would be interesting if that was in fact the case, considering that just days after filming ended Kingsley bit Alexis. 

Well all parties agree Kim's concerns were for a third party.  So far we have Monty, Chad and Kay.  Whoever it was is doing well know so that eliminates Monty and Kay.  Granted there are other possibilities but I can't think of anyone that would put Kim in harm's way.

 

Reality TV Smack has shared some thoughts about Monty and I hope she brings them over here and soon.

 

I think Kyle and Kim were doing okay after filming they went to a Halloween party together.  I think Kim was flat out using during filming and sadly after five years and drug use events in each of the five years I don't think Kim can film and stay off "helpers".  In the moment when Kim is in Amsterdam Monty is posting pictures and saying they are in Barcelona pictures.  Did they go to Barcelona?  Is this Monty guy the best person to be around Kim?

[ryebread]

I just realized that Kim and Paris have lazy left eyes. 

[talula]

Well all parties agree Kim's concerns were for a third party.  So far we have Monty, Chad and Kay.  Whoever it was is doing well know so that eliminates Monty and Kay.  Granted there are other possibilities but I can't think of anyone that would put Kim in harm's way.

 

Reality TV Smack has shared some thoughts about Monty and I hope she brings them over here and soon.

 

I think Kyle and Kim were doing okay after filming they went to a Halloween party together.  I think Kim was flat out using during filming and sadly after five years and drug use events in each of the five years I don't think Kim can film and stay off "helpers".  In the moment when Kim is in Amsterdam Monty is posting pictures and saying they are in Barcelona pictures.  Did they go to Barcelona?  Is this Monty guy the best person to be around Kim?

Here's what I was going to post to Zoeysmom:

 

Absolutely...shitty dinner conversation for sure!  Lisar seemed surprised that Kim's bucket of bitterness landed on her head with plenty left over to spill on Eileen and Kyle.  Did Lisar, expect that Kim would crack open like a egg and confess she fell off the wagon and beg forgiveness for her limo and poker night behavior?  More to the point, did Kim believe the ladies got together except for Brandi and she to plot a TV intervention right at the dinner table?  Could violent anger have influenced Kim into recoiling like a tightly wound snake and jump at anyone trying to even hint at her loss of sobriety?

 

ITA...what made Kim's motto switch from "Happy Life" to I want to chew those happy wives head's off!?!  Has watching Monty slowly suffer and die before her eyes have brought on a severe and overwhelming depression?

 

Then Zoeysmom and I thought: "Did Kim Richards have a nervous breakdown at that table?"   

 

I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of this situation, but all together we've come to some very plausible answers to..."Whatever Happened to Aunt Kim?"

 

Edited March 2, 2015 by RealityTVSmack1

[WireWrap]

Here's what I was going to post to Zoeysmom:

 

Absolutely...shitty dinner conversation for sure!  Lisar seemed surprised that Kim's bucket of bitterness landed on her head with plenty left over to spill on Eileen and Kyle.  Did Lisar, expect that Kim would crack open like a egg and confess she fell off the wagon and beg forgiveness for her limo and poker night behavior?  More to the point, did Kim believe the ladies got together except for Brandi and she to plot a TV intervention right at the dinner table?  Could violent anger have influenced Kim into recoiling like a tightly wound snake and jump at anyone trying to even hint at her loss of sobriety?

 

ITA...what made Kim's motto switch from "Happy Life" to I want to chew those happy wives head's off!?!  Has watching Monty slowly suffer and die before her eyes have brought on a severe and overwhelming depression?

 

Then Zoeysmom and I thought: "Did Kim Richards have a nervous breakdown at that table?"   

 

I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of this situation, but all together we've come to some very plausible answers to..."What Ever Happened to Aunt Kim?"

I have no doubts that knowing Monty is dying is hard/sad for Kim but at the time this was filmed he was going places and was not living with Kim full time. He was there for a few days then went to other friends homes and Vegas to party so I'm not convinced that it is his illness/impending death but could be a mix of stressors in her life. I do not think she had a nervous breakdown though. We have seen her behave this way before. Game night is 1 example. She was like  funny, happy, chirpy then BAM, she went off but that time Kyle was beside her, helping her.

 

IMO, due to the "stress" in her life, Monty, Chad, Kingsley, Brandi chirping in her ear, the moon, the sun and the stars, Kim went back to using drugs and it got out of control once again and became noticeable, she got caught and had to cut back. What we saw on the flight to Canada was just the part withdraw and by the time they got to Amsterdam and that dinner, she was either using again or really at the peak of needing a fix and her demons were in full force.  

 

It is sad to see/witness this but no matter what is going on in her life, it is time for Kim to leave the show. Maybe without the "stress" of doing this show, or any TV show, she can get the help she so desperately needs but I doubt she will ever do the work needed to find the peace she needs. I agree with you that we will never know the cause of her demons, just that they exist.

[talula]

Kim has a new "friend" to replace Kingsley:

 

Edited March 2, 2015 by RealityTVSmack1

[ryebread]

Great googly moogly.  Part of Kim's lil 'mood' problem appears to be severe dehydration. Seriously, my dad has dementia and he gets totally irritable and cantankerous when he's dehydrated.  And ya know how I check?  I pinch the skin on the top of his hand and if the skin stays tented up, he needs to drink and if it smooths back down, he's good to go.

 

I can tell by Kim's hands, don't even need to pinch 'em - girl needs a drink.  Of good ol' H20.  Won't cure all that ails her but I'm willing to throw everything including the kitchen sink at her if it would help improve her behavior.

[quinn]

The incident where Kim was filmed drunk / high at the airport, SFO IIRC, took place before she went to rehab.  TMZ released the tape while season one was airing.

 

I always thought that, at certain angles, there is a strong resemblance between Kim and her niece Paris. 

[BlackMamba]

IMO, due to the "stress" in her life, Monty, Chad, Kingsley, Brandi chirping in her ear, the moon, the sun and the stars, Kim went back to using drugs and it got out of control once again and became noticeable, she got caught and had to cut back. What we saw on the flight to Canada was just the part withdraw and by the time they got to Amsterdam and that dinner, she was either using again or really at the peak of needing a fix and her demons were in full force.

This is exactly my thoughts. I believe what I saw was a bad case of drug withdrawal aka The Real Kim: Will You Please Stand Up. Like I said under the first look thread when Kim is on pills or whatever substance of choice she seems "happy" or "bouncing off the walls" so as long she doesn't have erratic moments like Sur limo ride (season 2), Paris(season 3) or Poker Night. When she isnt doing substance abuse of any kind the mean, ugly and nasty side to Kim comes out that no one doesn't want to be faced with, it explains why no one confronts her with her addiction. Im willing to bet her last pill or patch or drink came a day (maybe less) before they jetted to Calgary. Once on the jet, unleashed the Kim that caused Kyle to hide in her jacket in embarrassment and the one who at the dinner table basically told Kyle she aint sh*t compared to the great and amazing Kathy Hilton. The woman who had no remorse for Lisa R's deceased sister, trying to accuse Harry of something bad and low key tried saying Lisa R has an eating disorder. Then Eileen was not viewed as attractive in her book and too proud to apologize for ruining poker night at Eileen's. This is how Kim really is when shes not using. It explains why Kyle doesn't want to be near her very much on and off screen. I totally get it.

[zoeysmom]

The first episode Season 1 Kim was very terse with Kyle on the flight to Sacramento.  Granted Kyle is a very nervous flier but Kim jumped down her throat (champagne glass in hand).  Kim was also snarly at dinner and the game-but not confrontational.  That time it was about where she was seated in the group at the Lakers'/Kings game and Taylor not paying attention to her.

 

To me, and Reality TV Smack, in our discussion, there is a moment where Kim snaps.  I do believe that Kim and Brandi have been ruminating with one another and feel they are being ostracized and like small children decided the way to NOT appear to be disliked they are going to quit the friendship before the others quit them.  I am not saying it was a good plan.  All of a sudden you have a very quiet Brandi sitting at the table-it works well for her. if Kim's meltdown becomes sympathetic she has Kim saying Brandi was the only one of the group there for Kim.  If Kim goes too far off the deep end Brandi is going to claim (behind Kim's back) she tried to warn Lisar and Kyle and they turned a deaf ear.

 

I don't know if this belongs in this thread but I will continue, Yolanda part in all of this is being overlooked, I believe she wanted to call the others out on talking about her daughter's drinking habits.  From what I have seen I think Brandi's comments, which were chosen carefully so as not to be an out and out accusation of the other RH talking about Bella but certainly left Yolanda's Lyme brain with that impression.  Amazing when Yolanda wanted to support Kim she was able to find a moment to do it one on one with Kim albeit on camera.  For some reason Yolanda could not find an opportunity, other than dinner with the full cast to bring up Bella.  I don't think Yolanda believed that these women were saying Bella was an alcoholic, I think she wanted some stroking that she was a good mom and that all these women were ready, willing and able to tell her so.  And then Lisar got personal with her story about the effect of addiction on survivors and Kim hijacked the show.  If it was going to be the sympathetic Bella made a mistake sympathetic table chatter I don't think Kim would have exploded.  Kim might have even not made it about her and her children and how she has had it so much worse.  I think Kim's meltdown had as much to do with Lisar talking addicts and Yolanda talking children with public arrests from being under the influence.  I also believe Kim is just plain mean.

 

Kim also has two out of four children who have been arrested for being under the influence-both as adults.  Brooke's was received really horrible press http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2007/07/brooke-ashley-brinson-cousin-of-paris-hilton-in-dui-bust/ and I think Kim started unraveling because she was not going to be receiving the same strokes as Yolanda and in spite of being a good mother kids make mistakes comforting Yolanda would receive.  The son's arrest and subsequent 72 hour hold was danced around lightly and his name was kept out of the press.  Kim can't help but make everything all about her and with Brandi's help the problem has only intensified.

 

And then there is Monty, as Realty TV Smack has said, Monty is a sometime guest at Casa de Kim.  I think Kim's frustration with Monty stems from the fact he is still using her abode with a revolving door.  Monty may need a place to crash in between right after chemo treatments but when he feels better I think he wants to chase the next big card game and hang out with his adult entertainment lady friends.  I have a suspicion that Eileen and Vince know more about Monty's habits than Kim feels comfortable with sharing.  Kim to me, has some sort of strange situation where the patient is expected to provide the alleged caregiver with much needed emotional support and when the patient fails the caregiver develops this host of physical and emotional symptoms (including drug use) for sympathy.  The twist is whenever she is confronted by her drug use it becomes about her gallant efforts to care for the patient and expects a pass.  

[WireWrap]

Kim has a new "friend" to replace Kingsley:

 

LOL, Maybe that is what Kim really looks like without being high, her "real" personality! LOL

[IKnowRight]

I love dogs! My heart still breaks for my first dog, that died back in 1972!! I didn't learn until I was 30+ (no one clued me in) that he was put down because he bit a second person and that person wanted to sue my parents. So, while I sincerely empathize with Kim, as someone who has a hard time moving on myself, Kim needs to grow up and deal with this like a mature adult should when they are 50 years old.

I can't believe after the way she saw Kingley react to her TV trainer, he bit an old women friend and chomped up her nieces hand that she can't "bring herself" to give him away permanently. How self centered can she be?

As I said in another post, I wholeheartedly agree that at the dinner in Amsterdam Kim believed the talk of drinking was going to turn into an intervention on her or she felt it was the ladies way of getting her to open up about herself or perhaps the incident with Chad. While I wouldn't put it past Yolanda to use a story to set up Kim, I do not believe she would stoop that low to use her daughter's mistake to out someone else. I believe Yo wanted to make sure there was no one gossiping about Bella, since Brandi said everyone was calling Bella an alcoholic, and knowing the topic of conversation would make it feel safe for the other ladies, namely Lisa R and Kim to be able to talk to the other women as support.

If Kim did not want to discuss her situation she could have remained quiet after simply cutting Lisa R off with an acceptance of her apology.

I still can't believe how horrible she was to bring up Harry, especially when we were just reminded here about how terrible it was for the other ladies to discuss Mauricio's behavior...than to rip on Kyle. I'm still shaking my head.

[goofygirl]

Kim needs to give Kingsley to that "Pitbulls and Parolees" lady and let him move to New Orleans.  Then she could get a small poodle who would sit in her lap or she could carry around everywhere and be "with" her and "support" her every frickin' second of every minute of every frickin' day.

WHATEVER!! Just PULEEZ go away! FAR,FAR AWAY!!

[Avaleigh]

Quinn, thanks for the correction. I thought it was taking place in July 2012 when I wrote my comment.

 

Either way we've seen that Kim's definition of sobriety in the past means that taking a random pill means falling off the wagon. She made that very clear back when they were filming in Paris and afterward. Kim's just hoping that people don't remember this shit so that they can't call her on it.

 

No way do I think Andy is going to challenge the three years of sobriety either. I'll be so annoyed if Kim doesn't get any tough questions about her behavior during the reunion. Ideally, I'd have each of the women tell Kim how her addict behavior has had a negative impact on them during the course of filming.

 

I also think that Kim should be forced to see her worst behavior this season and then have comparisons made to other seasons so that we can see that this is a pattern with Kim and that she's frequently an unpleasant person to deal with. I'm pretty sure I'm not that lucky though. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Avaleigh]

If Kim did not want to discuss her situation she could have remained quiet after simply cutting Lisa R off with an acceptance of her apology.

I agree. I definitely feel that Kim is the reason the scene escalated into such a nasty place. 

 

I don't consider Kim the star of the show, but I still think that there is still gold in them there hills when it comes to Kim and the Kim/Kyle dynamic.

 

I could probably find Kim tolerable under the following circumstances:

 

She'd have to stop bullshitting people about her addictions and come 100% clean.

 

She'd have to stop being a mean, snarly, obnoxious, complaining pain in the ass.

 

She'd have to humble herself and give a round of apologies to the ladies especially to Kyle, Eileen, and Lisar but really all of them because they've all had to deal with Kim on one of her (many) bad days.

 

She'd have to be brought on in a friend like capacity. Either that or she has to have something going on in her life apart from her addictions and her victim routine with Kyle. She needs to bring something to the table already because she's definitely not pulling her own weight when it comes to hosting events and coming up with interesting filming activities for the other women.

 

She wouldn't be allowed to point her finger. I don't even really mean this as a joke, I honestly think that somebody needs to have a conversation with Kim about her tendency to put that finger in people's faces as though that's acceptable behavior. It isn't cute and it's a habit that she needs to break. Kyle for her part seems to have gotten the message because she's definitely dialed it down a bit since season 3. Kim is rarely taken to task for her behavior so she continues to think that shit like that is okay and it's so obviously not. That pointed finger has gotten her into hot water multiple times and I for one am over it.

[zoeysmom]

I am beginning to believe that shortly after the Stalking JR episode Kim and Brandi realized they had been marginalized and Kyle and Yolanda's daughters would play a greater role, as well as the new ladies and it did not sit well with them.  If part of Kim's storyline was truly going to be prepping for her daughter's February 2015, destination wedding and it got cut because of Monty's health-I could see her feeling a little let down.  I don't know how much a visual planning a destination wedding entails but I do think Kim was looking forward to have some of her heart to heart mother of the bride moments with Brooke.  I believe because of the direction filming took Kim became angry with Kyle and it started before the wedding.  Maybe if Kyle had been in the country there would have been more film of Kim, Kyle and Kathy getting the wedding ready?  Kim probably felt a little small when there was more footage of the Umanskys return from Europe and greeting their dogs and getting ready for the wedding than there was of Kim and the bride.  (She obviously would not have known this until it aired.)

 

Kim is going to have a long way to go for a redemption arc and at this point I don't think there are many takers.  She has be under the friendly influence of Brandi, may have not realized that the one thing she could not do is be mean to both her sister and the Lisas and Eileen.  I don't even know if Yolanda can save her.  I will be anxious to see what transpires between now and the end of the season.

[Satchels of gold]

I'm not saying this is right or wrong but if Kim is following a 12 step program and she took a pill, she doesn't get to claim three years of sobriety she goes back to day one. I find it harsh but that's how the program works.

[zoeysmom]

I'm not saying this is right or wrong but if Kim is following a 12 step program and she took a pill, she doesn't get to claim three years of sobriety she goes back to day one. I find it harsh but that's how the program works.

I think that is the demon she can't make go away. . .she slipped, relapsed, fell off the wagon.  I have heard a number of people in recovery say I was sober for two years and had a slip and I have been sober another one year.  If it comes from someone whose life was in a total shambles the slips are maybe inevitable and if admitted acceptable.  Kim just strikes as someone who knew it was time to give up drinking and has been slip sliding around with a variety of prescription meds-whether they be hers or someone else's and wants a continual round of applause for laying off the booze.

Edited March 3, 2015 by zoeysmom

[IKnowRight]

Kim with her dog

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoFt5COu0D8

[IKnowRight]

Not too big of a deal, but remember when Kim invites Kyle to see her mother of the bride dress in her home?  She was less than honest about how sick she was and that Kimberly & Chad had also been very sick...and contagious.  Kyle was clear that she was going on a lavish vacation and didn't want to end up sick while away.  Can you blame Kyle?  If I was spending big bucks on a family vacation, I would avoid going to someone's home if they were that sick.  Kim reminded me of those parents who will send sick & contagious kids to school because she has no concern for how it affects other people.  I get how excited she was and she wanted to share the dresses with Kyle.  It would certainly be a disappointment if everyone's sick just before the big day and but a damper on the festivities....However, she tricked Kyle into going there, was that for more airtime??

[motorcitymom65]

I'm not saying this is right or wrong but if Kim is following a 12 step program and she took a pill, she doesn't get to claim three years of sobriety she goes back to day one. I find it harsh but that's how the program works.

Maybe someone can help me with my memory, which is usually good, but I may be getting this wrong. In Paris, when Lisa asked Kim if she taken a sleeping pill, didn't Kim say that if she had taken a pill that this would be she had relapsed and wasn't sober? Wasn't that the crux of her anger at Lisa, that in asking such a logical question (to most people) she was saying that Kim had fallen off the wagon?  I swear this is what happened. But then when she was talking to Brandi about taking the pill and the fact that this made Lisar question her sobriety, she said that taking the pill didn't mean she had relapsed. 

[AnnaL]

Maybe someone can help me with my memory, which is usually good, but I may be getting this wrong. In Paris, when Lisa asked Kim if she taken a sleeping pill, didn't Kim say that if she had taken a pill that this would be she had relapsed and wasn't sober? Wasn't that the crux of her anger at Lisa, that in asking such a logical question (to most people) she was saying that Kim had fallen off the wagon?  I swear this is what happened. But then when she was talking to Brandi about taking the pill and the fact that this made Lisar question her sobriety, she said that taking the pill didn't mean she had relapsed. 

 

Classic addict talking out of both sides of her mouth, it is called denial.

 

Just like if you ask Brandi if she is an alcoholic and she will give you all kind of reasons why she is not , so she believes that she doesn't have a problem with it just because she says it.

 

Kim did say that admitting to taking one pill (a sleeping pill) will amount to acept that she has felt out of the wagon, yet this is even worse, she took a pain pill (if we believe her) that was not prescribed to her , Kim was try to mascarade this in many different ways but she did have a relapse and she is probably lying to herself thinking that this was a one time relapse, this has happened more than once.

[thewhiteowl]

 Kim seems to be under the erroneous impression that the only reason "we" (the watchers) have any idea that she's a drugged up, messy asshole is that the others have spoken about it. Sorry, you mess, we see it (when I say we I mean I) Even if they never said a word, we'd know it.   Walks like an addict, talks like an addict, pretty good odds on being an addict. Being pissed because they said it, is just more deflection. IMO

[zoeysmom]

 Kim seems to be under the erroneous impression that the only reason "we" (the watchers) have any idea that she's a drugged up, messy asshole is that the others have spoken about it. Sorry, you mess, we see it (when I say we I mean I) Even if they never said a word, we'd know it.   Walks like an addict, talks like an addict, pretty good odds on being an addict. Being pissed because they said it, is just more deflection. IMO

Which is why I never understood the umbrage of Kyle outing drunken Kim in the limo.  Lisa knew she was drunk, Taylor knew she drunk and the viewers certainly did and all of a sudden it was a state secret.  Kim had been to rehab three times before her rehab stint between Season 2 and 3.  Line producers talk, scenes are reshot and the on going "where's Kim?", became unfunny.  Just once this season Kyle had a pretty honest statement regarding Kim's addictions-when her mom was alive she wanted to talk about it so Kim would get "caught" and maybe stop the drinking and was told it was a secret.  Brandi on one hand agreed it was in Kim's best interests to talk about it (as Kyle and Kim had had a discussion at lunch the day before) somehow three hour later it was all about "protecting" Kim and her inebriation from prying cameras and covering it up.  I believe White Owl referenced, Brandi truly is Kim's greatest enabler.

 

Kim like her mascot the turtle has for all practical purposes retreated into her shell.  That safe place mom, and Kathy and for many years Kyle allowed her to remain until she decided to brave the big cruel world of sobriety once again.  I have a feeling unlike Season 1, the veteran actresses did not take any of Kim's bluster having watched her up close and personal go after Kyle.  I am totally counting on Andy and the Bravo editing germs to totally show the Reunion as sympathetic to Kim and Brandi because the big bad money making machine seems to take offense at being referenced as picking on someone.

[HumblePi]

I've had days to think about Kim Richards and my initial thoughts were like most, I was offended by what appeared to be out of line comments to Lisa Rinna. I think Kim snapped and was out of line. I've been trying to see this through Kim's eyes because up to now I've only seen Kim's behavior within the context of the poker night fiasco.

 

Yes, Kim took a drug that was either given to her by Monty or that she just took herself without his knowledge. That much as been acknowledge by Kim. Yes, it just happened to be LisaR sharing her limo ride and got the first look into Kim's craziness that night and it scared her.

 

I want to try and believe Kim and trust all she's been saying all along. She's been sober for 3 years, she took a drug that had a negative effect on her on poker night.  She's being hounded by both LisaR and Eileen who are insisting that she's broken her sobriety and is again using either drugs or alcohol. When I put it into this perspective, I can completely understand Kim's anger and frustration at both Eileen who tried to be a moderator between Kyle and Kim, and to LisaR who is almost insisting to be told that Kim has fallen off the wagon.

 

Kim is wrong attacking Lisa and Eileen at dinner, she was completely out of line. But maybe she needed to do that in order to bring it to the forefront in view of everyone that basically LisaR had been trying to undermine and belittle her 3 years of sobriety and that Kyle really hasn't been insisting to anyone that she knows for a fact that Kim has been sober for 3 years.

 

The public has branded Kim Richards as a substance abuser and crazier than a lunatic. But, have we honestly considered that Kim might actually be telling the truth that she's clean and sober for 3 years? Can it be that we just need someone to hate on and Kim's behavior has made that easy to do?

Edited March 3, 2015 by HumblePi

[ryebread]

HumblePi:  I want Kim gone. For her own safety and because this has become too much about Kim and her demons.  I'm ready to move on.  However, I totally agree with everything you said. 

 

She's being hounded by both LisaR and Eileen who are insisting that she's broken her sobriety and is again using either drugs or alcohol. When I put it into this perspective, I can completely understand Kim's anger and frustration at both Eileen who tried to be a moderator between Kyle and Kim, and to LisaR who is almost insisting to be told that Kim has fallen off the wagon.

 

Kim is wrong attacking Lisa and Eileen at dinner, she was completely out of line. But maybe she needed to do that in order to bring it to the forefront in view of everyone that basically LisaR had been trying to undermine and belittle her 3 years of sobriety and that Kyle really hasn't been insisting to anyone that she knows for a fact that Kim has been sober for 3 years.

 

I think that's the truth.  It turned out ugly, but there it is.  Kim is wrong for a lot of reasons.  She's an ass who didn't issue an apology to Eileen.  And she scared big, strong, I'll-kick-your-ass-and-throw-glass-shards-in-your-pants, Lisa Rinna with her behavior in the car.  That's what she's done to them.  What they are doing to her, might be worse.  And I think they know exactly what they're doing.

[goofygirl]

Humble Pi, NO.  Just NO.

[Satchels of gold]

Ok this is going to sound crazy but I've long suspected Kim wasn't sober but in my own strange way I didn't want to out her by stating that because I really wanted her to be sober....but I really felt she wasn't. She has always seemed fragile and that touched me and made me feel protective of her. Now all I want is for her to be off the show and get the help that she so desperately needs. I see Lisa R as taking Kims illness very seriously and seems very aware of the that Kim is playing Russian roulette with her continued use. It's hard to sit back and ignore a lide threatening illness. Having said that, Lisa shouldn't have thrown the glass, I will, however forgive her if she continues to bring it for the rest of the season.

I know, right? She seems think no one will notice If people wouldn't talk about it. Like her crazy, over the top, slurring , pizza seeking behavoir didn't give us a clue

Kim seems to be under the erroneous impression that the only reason "we" (the watchers) have any idea that she's a drugged up, messy asshole is that the others have spoken about it. Sorry, you mess, we see it (when I say we I mean I) Even if they never said a word, we'd know it. Walks like an addict, talks like an addict, pretty good odds on being an addict. Being pissed because they said it, is just more deflection. IMO

I've had days to think about Kim Richards and my initial thoughts were like most, I was offended by what appeared to be out of line comments to Lisa Rinna. I think Kim snapped and was out of line. I've been trying to see this through Kim's eyes because up to now I've only seen Kim's behavior within the context of the poker night fiasco.

Yes, Kim took a drug that was either given to her by Monty or that she just took herself without his knowledge. That much as been acknowledge by Kim. Yes, it just happened to be LisaR sharing her limo ride and got the first look into Kim's craziness that night and it scared her.

I want to try and believe Kim and trust all she's been saying all along. She's been sober for 3 years, she took a drug that had a negative effect on her on poker night. She's being hounded by both LisaR and Eileen who are insisting that she's broken her sobriety and is again using either drugs or alcohol. When I put it into this perspective, I can completely understand Kim's anger and frustration at both Eileen who tried to be a moderator between Kyle and Kim, and to LisaR who is almost insisting to be told that Kim has fallen off the wagon.

Kim is wrong attacking Lisa and Eileen at dinner, she was completely out of line. But maybe she needed to do that in order to bring it to the forefront in view of everyone that basically LisaR had been trying to undermine and belittle her 3 years of sobriety and that Kyle really hasn't been insisting to anyone that she knows for a fact that Kim has been sober for 3 years.

The public has branded Kim Richards as a substance abuser and crazier than a lunatic. But, have we honestly considered that Kim might actually be telling the truth that she's clean and sober for 3 years? Can it be that we just need someone to hate on and Kim's behavior has made that easy to do?

Ok this is going to sound crazy but I've long suspected Kim wasn't sober but in my own strange way I didn't want to out her by stating that because I really wanted her to be sober....but I really felt she wasn't. She has always seemed fragile and that touched me and made me feel protective of her. Now all I want is for her to be off the show and get the help that she so desperately needs. I see Lisa R as taking Kims illness very seriously and seems very aware of the that Kim is playing Russian roulette with her continued use. It's hard to sit back and ignore a life threatening illness. Having said that, Lisa shouldn't have thrown the glass, I will, however forgive her if she continues to bring it for the rest of the season. Edited March 3, 2015 by nc socialworker

[Higgins]

It's really not up to others to determine Kim's plan. She may not be working a 12 step or total abstinence of any substance plan. That is a valid form of harm reduction. Research is showing these plans may be more workable. Say for instance her use of alcohol and cocaine was causing her the most harm in her life. If she was working a plan the she abstains from those substances but may allow for use of anxiety meds, pain relief and marijuana...whatever. If she has abstained from those things that she determined caused her the most harm, she can say she has been sober for 3 years. This is a growing field in recovery. There is research that shows this might prevent people from relapsing and then saying fuck it, I might as well go hog wild because I failed.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Higgins

[WireWrap]

Maybe someone can help me with my memory, which is usually good, but I may be getting this wrong. In Paris, when Lisa asked Kim if she taken a sleeping pill, didn't Kim say that if she had taken a pill that this would be she had relapsed and wasn't sober? Wasn't that the crux of her anger at Lisa, that in asking such a logical question (to most people) she was saying that Kim had fallen off the wagon?  I swear this is what happened. But then when she was talking to Brandi about taking the pill and the fact that this made Lisar question her sobriety, she said that taking the pill didn't mean she had relapsed. 

Kim admitted to Kyle after they returned from Paris that she took the wrong medication with her to Paris and took it the entire time even though she knew/realized it was the wrong med. She went so far as to say that she had already had a "bad reaction" to that medication before but..........Now we get that she took a pill of Monty's and "had a bad reaction to it". See a pattern emerging?  Yes, Kim fell off the wagon in Paris, then it was reported then confirmed By Brandi that she fell off the wagon in PR last season but it was edited out/covered up by producers. This season, she was high poker night and under the influence after she came home from the hospital and at the mixer, I suspect those were NOT the only times she has been filmed under the influence of something this season and IMO, the producers have had enough and are airing some of it for us to see/witness.

 

I've had days to think about Kim Richards and my initial thoughts were like most, I was offended by what appeared to be out of line comments to Lisa Rinna. I think Kim snapped and was out of line. I've been trying to see this through Kim's eyes because up to now I've only seen Kim's behavior within the context of the poker night fiasco.

 

Yes, Kim took a drug that was either given to her by Monty or that she just took herself without his knowledge. That much as been acknowledge by Kim. Yes, it just happened to be LisaR sharing her limo ride and got the first look into Kim's craziness that night and it scared her.

 

I want to try and believe Kim and trust all she's been saying all along. She's been sober for 3 years, she took a drug that had a negative effect on her on poker night.  She's being hounded by both LisaR and Eileen who are insisting that she's broken her sobriety and is again using either drugs or alcohol. When I put it into this perspective, I can completely understand Kim's anger and frustration at both Eileen who tried to be a moderator between Kyle and Kim, and to LisaR who is almost insisting to be told that Kim has fallen off the wagon.

 

Kim is wrong attacking Lisa and Eileen at dinner, she was completely out of line. But maybe she needed to do that in order to bring it to the forefront in view of everyone that basically LisaR had been trying to undermine and belittle her 3 years of sobriety and that Kyle really hasn't been insisting to anyone that she knows for a fact that Kim has been sober for 3 years.

 

The public has branded Kim Richards as a substance abuser and crazier than a lunatic. But, have we honestly considered that Kim might actually be telling the truth that she's clean and sober for 3 years? Can it be that we just need someone to hate on and Kim's behavior has made that easy to do?

To believe that she has been sober for 3 years you have to forget what happened in Paris, she was as high as a kite there as well. The you have to forget the reports about what happened in PR last season that were confirmed by none other than Kim's new BF, Brandi and you have to ignore that she has been high/under the influence 3 times this season already, poker night, in her home with Brandi/Kyle after her hospital stay and the mixer party. I guess if you ignore these time, she has been sober but I can't ignore it and IMO, ignoring it is bad for Kim in the long run.

[Watermelon]

HumblePi:  I want Kim gone. For her own safety and because this has become too much about Kim and her demons.  I'm ready to move on.  However, I totally agree with everything you said. 

 

 

I think that's the truth.  It turned out ugly, but there it is.  Kim is wrong for a lot of reasons.  She's an ass who didn't issue an apology to Eileen.  And she scared big, strong, I'll-kick-your-ass-and-throw-glass-shards-in-your-pants, Lisa Rinna with her behavior in the car.  That's what she's done to them.  What they are doing to her, might be worse.  And I think they know exactly what they're doing.

Yeah, I definitely don't see it that way at all.

Eileen and Lisa aren't doing anything to her. Kim is not a victim. The worst thing Lisa has done was thrown the glass, after all of Kim's shitty, bitchy behavior.

 

At that table, Kim started that argument. Lisa apologized and explained WHY she had been so concerned (or "concerned" if you prefer). Instead of Kim acting like an adult and accepting that and moving on, she proceeds to go on an make a huge deal out of what easily could have been the comment to end all the conversation. And THEN argue with anybody who had a word to say that wasn't in agreement with her.

It's really not up to others to determine Kim's plan. She may not be working a 12 step or total abstinence of any substance plan. That is a valid form of harm reduction. Research is showing these plans may be more workable. Say for instance her use of alcohol and cocaine was causing her the most harm in her life. If she was working a plan the she abstains from those substances but may allow for use of anxiety meds, pain relief and marijuana...whatever. If she has abstained from those things that she determined caused her the most harm, she can say she has been sober for 3 years. This is a growing field in recovery. There is research that shows this might prevent people from relapsing and then saying fuck it, I might as well go hog wild because I failed.

Sure, it's called harm reduction.  But Kim saying "Blah blah blah yeah yeah yeah" is very different from saying, "yes I have a recovery plan. I don't want to get into specifics because it's not your business, but it's in tact and barring that pill, I'm on course"

[WireWrap]

It's really not up to others to determine Kim's plan. She may not be working a 12 step or total abstinence of any substance plan. That is a valid form of harm reduction. Research is showing these plans may be more workable. Say for instance her use of alcohol and cocaine was causing her the most harm in her life. If she was working a plan the she abstains from those substances but may allow for use of anxiety meds, pain relief and marijuana...whatever. If she has abstained from those things that she determined caused her the most harm, she can say she has been sober for 3 years. This is a growing field in recovery. There is research that shows this might prevent people from relapsing and then saying fuck it, I might as well go hog wild because I failed.

Kim said she was on a 12 step program the season after rehab. She and her "life coach" Gary talked about it on camera and how she, Kim, needs to earn back any trust from Kyle or anyone else in her life and that it takes years for that to happen, his words to Kim.

 

Of course Kim can say anything she wants to but that does not make it true or real to anyone else witnessing her behavior. IMO, Kim is not sober and has not been for a while now and the producers are done covering it up for her, hence the focus on her drug/alcohol/whatever it is addictions/abuse.

[AnnaL]

I've had days to think about Kim Richards and my initial thoughts were like most, I was offended by what appeared to be out of line comments to Lisa Rinna. I think Kim snapped and was out of line. I've been trying to see this through Kim's eyes because up to now I've only seen Kim's behavior within the context of the poker night fiasco.

 

Yes, Kim took a drug that was either given to her by Monty or that she just took herself without his knowledge. That much as been acknowledge by Kim. Yes, it just happened to be LisaR sharing her limo ride and got the first look into Kim's craziness that night and it scared her.

 

I want to try and believe Kim and trust all she's been saying all along. She's been sober for 3 years, she took a drug that had a negative effect on her on poker night.  She's being hounded by both LisaR and Eileen who are insisting that she's broken her sobriety and is again using either drugs or alcohol. When I put it into this perspective, I can completely understand Kim's anger and frustration at both Eileen who tried to be a moderator between Kyle and Kim, and to LisaR who is almost insisting to be told that Kim has fallen off the wagon.

 

Kim is wrong attacking Lisa and Eileen at dinner, she was completely out of line. But maybe she needed to do that in order to bring it to the forefront in view of everyone that basically LisaR had been trying to undermine and belittle her 3 years of sobriety and that Kyle really hasn't been insisting to anyone that she knows for a fact that Kim has been sober for 3 years.

 

The public has branded Kim Richards as a substance abuser and crazier than a lunatic. But, have we honestly considered that Kim might actually be telling the truth that she's clean and sober for 3 years? Can it be that we just need someone to hate on and Kim's behavior has made that easy to do?

 

In her mind she probably has been sober for three year as in not drinking alcohol. I do believe that she is no longer drinking.

 

What Kim hasn't accepted and probably never will is that alcohol is not the only one of her addictions, she seems to be addicted to pain killers as well and will procure them any way she can. There are many examples of her bizarre behavior when she is on painkillers

 

Hawaii, Kim was a mess but she was supposed to be in recovery

The end of the thris season, Kim is scrambling for "something" n the floor and she is also in bizarro mood

Paris for once, she "got confused" and got the wrong pill but never realized until several days have gone by?

Poker night, another pill that was not prescribed to her , she took it because she was in 100% pain, yet there is absoilutely no signs of her being in pain or coughing at that event.

The day of Kyle's mixer Kim couldn't even remember what day is was.

 

Kim is a hypocondriac and will convince herself that she is in some kind of pain, she will cry to the doctor to get pain pills, she will "borrow" them if needed be, Brandi mentioned something about "patches" as well. Kim definitely is on something that is way past alcohol and she is also in denial about this so she will never admit or confess to herself that not being drunk is not equivalent to being sober.

 

Same as alcohol, when pain killers start affecting your mood, behavior, relationships, when they somehow give you an alternative view of things, when you can't remember what happened the day before, when you forget even what day it is, then it definitely is a problem.

 

If Kim's standard for accepting a relapse is that she has to be well and ready to say it, that is fine in Kim's world.

As far as me, al I need to do is look at the way she behaves when she is on pain medicine and the aftermath of those action that not only affect her but the ones around her to realize that Kim definitely is still fighting some serious demons.

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

I want to try and believe Kim and trust all she's been saying all along. She's been sober for 3 years, she took a drug that had a negative effect on her on poker night.  She's being hounded by both LisaR and Eileen who are insisting that she's broken her sobriety and is again using either drugs or alcohol. When I put it into this perspective, I can completely understand Kim's anger and frustration at both Eileen who tried to be a moderator between Kyle and Kim, and to LisaR who is almost insisting to be told that Kim has fallen off the wagon.

 

 

 

I guess I haven't seen Eileen and Lisar hounding her at all. I saw them talk with her about it one time; at the reading at Eileen's house. They seemed to be reaching out to her to make sure she had a support system and let her know it is OK to ask for help. They brought up the deal with Monty and expressed concern and sympathy that she had so much on her plate.  They had every right IMO to do this because they had seen her behavior first hand on Poker Night. It would have been very hard for me to see that and say nothing about it the next time we were together.  Have they spoken to her about it one other time? I have heard many times that Lisar in particular keeps bringing it up with Kim and that it might be understandable that she just snapped. What other time that Lisar has spoken to Kim have I missed? Kim is the one who brought it up to Lisar on the plane. She didn't seem to feel the need to keep this off camera as Kyle had requested, but instead went head to head with Lisar about it in front of everyone, putting Lisar on the defensive and making it clear she was pissed at her.   What I don't think Kim gets is that when she acts this way and engages in this type of behavior in front of everyone, it becomes the experience of everyone who witnessed it. People are allowed to have an opinion and a reaction to what they just saw. 

[Higgins]

Considering the (lack of) "success" rate of 12 step programs, maybe that's her problem. They rarely work.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Higgins

[zoeysmom]

It's really not up to others to determine Kim's plan. She may not be working a 12 step or total abstinence of any substance plan. That is a valid form of harm reduction. Research is showing these plans may be more workable. Say for instance her use of alcohol and cocaine was causing her the most harm in her life. If she was working a plan the she abstains from those substances but may allow for use of anxiety meds, pain relief and marijuana...whatever. If she has abstained from those things that she determined caused her the most harm, she can say she has been sober for 3 years. This is a growing field in recovery. There is research that shows this might prevent people from relapsing and then saying fuck it, I might as well go hog wild because I failed.

I do think to a certain extent it is invasive to ask someone in a Twelve Step program what step they are on.  Maybe a bad example but I never ask a breast cancer patient if she is having a mastectomy, lumpectomy, radiation or chemo-if they want to tell me great but  I feel it is a little invasive.

 

Now in Kim's case I think very early on in her sobriety she said she would have to continue to take anti-anxiety medication-I am responding to you because you work with these types of things.  Is anti-anxiety medicine always PRN or can it be given on a daily basis to lessen the chance of an anxiety attack?  As far as the marijuana use there are two schools of thought about that as well-I noticed Kim said she hadn't been smoking that night (Poker night)-and we saw her smoking little cigars-so I am going with she may have been smoking pot.  I don't think the idea of giving up alcohol is to substitute another substance be it pot, Xanax or opiates to stay inebriated does not fall with in the standards legally or medically of sober. I can see where the thought being mom is happy, smiles a lot and just has the munchies when she smokes pot may be preferable to a nasty, drunken mom.  Using pain killers responsibly for chronic or acute pain I think would be a healthy part of sobriety.   Many different plans have been tried-I remember the alcoholic to social drinking experiment featured in a 60 Minutes the failure rate was over 90%.

 

Kim's behavior while under the influence I think is the key.  It doesn't mean she can't have her temper tantrums about the others questioning her sobriety because when she does she just proves she is not a sober person or a very nice person.  I am just tiured of hearing how hard Kim works for her sobriety.

[copacabana]

"Now, Voyager" is on -- a film I didn't really appreciate until I became an old lady.  Kimmie could use a shrink and doctor like Claude Reins -- and, if she were resolute in working her recovery by any means (necessary), she might find herself a moment or two of Paul Heinreid before fading to black.  Kim doesn't really deserve to be tied to the great Bette Davis, their work history aside, but damn if Bette's characters don't bring the sad, brutish life of Kim to mind. 

[copacabana]

I do think to a certain extent it is invasive to ask someone in a Twelve Step program what step they are on.  Maybe a bad example but I never ask a breast cancer patient if she is having a mastectomy, lumpectomy, radiation or chemo-if they want to tell me great but  I feel it is a little invasive.

 

Now in Kim's case I think very early on in her sobriety she said she would have to continue to take anti-anxiety medication-I am responding to you because you work with these types of things.  Is anti-anxiety medicine always PRN or can it be given on a daily basis to lessen the chance of an anxiety attack?  As far as the marijuana use there are two schools of thought about that as well-I noticed Kim said she hadn't been smoking that night (Poker night)-and we saw her smoking little cigars-so I am going with she may have been smoking pot.  I don't think the idea of giving up alcohol is to substitute another substance be it pot, Xanax or opiates to stay inebriated does not fall with in the standards legally or medically of sober. I can see where the thought being mom is happy, smiles a lot and just has the munchies when she smokes pot may be preferable to a nasty, drunken mom.  Using pain killers responsibly for chronic or acute pain I think would be a healthy part of sobriety.   Many different plans have been tried-I remember the alcoholic to social drinking experiment featured in a 60 Minutes the failure rate was over 90%.

 

Kim's behavior while under the influence I think is the key.  It doesn't mean she can't have her temper tantrums about the others questioning her sobriety because when she does she just proves she is not a sober person or a very nice person.  I am just tiured of hearing how hard Kim works for her sobriety.

 

Yeah, no, you don't wanna ask a body what step they are on unless they are in the program with you and you feel comfy getting into any of that.  Most people don't because most folks know little about how meetings really work and what goes on before, during, and after.  Most films get it totally wrong, I've noticed.  But that's not quite the same thing as saying, HEY, girl, you were really crawling the other night and what's up with that?  You okay?  And, oh by the way, didn't appreciate some of your behaviors. 

 

I think the real issue for the gals is that if it's obvious to us that she ain't working any program on the tv screen, it's going to be totally obvious to them in real time that something is seriously amiss.  I think ED touches on this in this episode coming up. 

 

But I better shut up, really, because now I got my own monkey on my own back. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by copacabana

[Baltimore Betty]

I firmly believe that there is a difference between being sober and thinking sober, Kim is doing neither of these.  Kim is so used to covering up or lying about even the most mundane things she does not have a clue how to be or think sober.

[ryebread]

I do think to a certain extent it is invasive to ask someone in a Twelve Step program what step they are on.  Maybe a bad example but I never ask a breast cancer patient if she is having a mastectomy, lumpectomy, radiation or chemo-if they want to tell me great but  I feel it is a little invasive.

 

Where Eileen really rubbed me the wrong way is when she was asking Kyle what "program" Kim was doing.  If she had sponsors.  But the kicker, "These are the questions Lisa and I are asking."  I'll bet Kyle was even irked by that.  She sure looked it during the whole conversation.  Eileen overstepped her boundaries, right there, imo.  Yes, I understand Kim overstepped all over the place, too, but I'm talking about my opinion re: Eileen's behavior to Kim.

 

I think Kyle was so caught off guard and irked about that conversation that she told Kim about it.  I think she tells Kim everything.

[copacabana]

I firmly believe that there is a difference between being sober and thinking sober, Kim is doing neither of these.  Kim is so used to covering up or lying about even the most mundane things she does not have a clue how to be or think sober.

 

One sure tell is that being truly sober is like an extended moment of Zen -- no matter what the turmoil is going on in one's private life -- and by that I just mean that there's enough stillness, calm, and serenity in one's life to be able to understand that you are not the center of the universe and that others are operating out of their own spheres of whatever and in need of their own measures of respect.  Many of the 12-steps are just about getting to that point of acknowledgment.  Not being able to comprehend what another person is going through or experiencing, especially during conflict, is a sure sign of not being clean -- and in some cases a sign of not being sane. 

[Rhetorica]

I posted this on first looks but that forum was locked, so I guess here's ok. So here goes...

Well, I've read all your posts and thoughts. Now for mine regarding The Restaurant Rumble. I'm so glad Kim is finally being called out on her unacceptable behavior, even if she won't accept her horrid actions. It, at least, is cathartic for her castmates. However, Lisa R's actions were also unacceptable. When is it ever suitable for someone to throw something at another or a group? I've been an inner city kid, a trailer park teen, a suburban mom, and now an uptown woman and have never seen such behavior. Not because I'm blessed. Because I have never allowed myself to be in escalating situations. I remove myself. Not in flight, like Kyle, but we'll before it comes to that point. Besides, my hair has never been as long and the effect would be lost. JMHO. 

[ryebread]

I guess I haven't seen Eileen and Lisar hounding her at all.

 

I see some hounding but Kim is also hearing from people, Kyle and Brandi and Yo, that she's being talked about and that's adding to the hounded feeling.  I understand that.

[WireWrap]

Considering the (lack of) "success" rate of 12 step programs, maybe that's her problem. They rarely work.

No matter what "program" Kim is on, it is not working.

 

I do think to a certain extent it is invasive to ask someone in a Twelve Step program what step they are on.  Maybe a bad example but I never ask a breast cancer patient if she is having a mastectomy, lumpectomy, radiation or chemo-if they want to tell me great but  I feel it is a little invasive.

 

Now in Kim's case I think very early on in her sobriety she said she would have to continue to take anti-anxiety medication-I am responding to you because you work with these types of things.  Is anti-anxiety medicine always PRN or can it be given on a daily basis to lessen the chance of an anxiety attack?  As far as the marijuana use there are two schools of thought about that as well-I noticed Kim said she hadn't been smoking that night (Poker night)-and we saw her smoking little cigars-so I am going with she may have been smoking pot.  I don't think the idea of giving up alcohol is to substitute another substance be it pot, Xanax or opiates to stay inebriated does not fall with in the standards legally or medically of sober. I can see where the thought being mom is happy, smiles a lot and just has the munchies when she smokes pot may be preferable to a nasty, drunken mom.  Using pain killers responsibly for chronic or acute pain I think would be a healthy part of sobriety.   Many different plans have been tried-I remember the alcoholic to social drinking experiment featured in a 60 Minutes the failure rate was over 90%.

 

Kim's behavior while under the influence I think is the key.  It doesn't mean she can't have her temper tantrums about the others questioning her sobriety because when she does she just proves she is not a sober person or a very nice person.  I am just tiured of hearing how hard Kim works for her sobriety.

I agree, Kim always claiming she is working hard on her sobriety when we have seen otherwise is ridiculous IMO.

 

Where Eileen really rubbed me the wrong way is when she was asking Kyle what "program" Kim was doing.  If she had sponsors.  But the kicker, "These are the questions Lisa and I are asking."  I'll bet Kyle was even irked by that.  She sure looked it during the whole conversation.  Eileen overstepped her boundaries, right there, imo.  Yes, I understand Kim overstepped all over the place, too, but I'm talking about my opinion re: Eileen's behavior to Kim.

 

I think Kyle was so caught off guard and irked about that conversation that she told Kim about it.  I think she tells Kim everything.

I did not hear Eileen, Lisa or anyone ask Kim to name a program or specifics but heard her/them ask more as a general question to see if she had the support she needed.

Edited March 3, 2015 by WireWrap

[motorcitymom65]

Where Eileen really rubbed me the wrong way is when she was asking Kyle what "program" Kim was doing.  If she had sponsors.  But the kicker, "These are the questions Lisa and I are asking."  I'll bet Kyle was even irked by that.  She sure looked it during the whole conversation.  Eileen overstepped her boundaries, right there, imo.  Yes, I understand Kim overstepped all over the place, too, but I'm talking about my opinion re: Eileen's behavior to Kim.

 

I think Kyle was so caught off guard and irked about that conversation that she told Kim about it.  I think she tells Kim everything.

The deal with Eileen was strange. I agree that Kyle looked at the very least uncomfortable.  I don't think she liked it one bit.

 

If I had to guess, I would assume that Kyle is calling Kim and telling her that folks are starting to ask some questions. I certainly would. But I would also assume that Kyle is assuring Kim that she is not giving up any information. "Yea they are asking, but I'm keeping my mouth shut". I guess this is what I cannot understand. If Kyle is giving her a heads up, why does she think that Kyle isn't being supportive? She seems so sure that Kyle is "doing" something to her. 

[zulualpha]

Sure, it's called harm reduction.  But Kim saying "Blah blah blah yeah yeah yeah" is very different from saying, "yes I have a recovery plan. I don't want to get into specifics because it's not your business, but it's in tact and barring that pill, I'm on course"

To quote Pink "I'm not here for your entertainment".  Kim has said in THs that she's been around a long time, has been struggling for a long time and doesn't owe anyone any explanations.  Lisar and to a certain extent Eileen are coming off very narcissistic to  me, forcing their "help" and "concern" on someone who clearly doesn't want it in order to appear to be good people on tv.  I think Lisar's and Eileen's behaviour is borderline abusive and stalkerish towards Kim.  As far as the restaurant blow up goes, Lisar is the one that lunged for Kim's throat and then armed herself by breaking a wine glass.  Lisar was violent and out of control and if anyone should be off the show it should be Lisar, ala Porsha from RHoAtl.

 

I think Kim adds reality to this show that it wouldn't have otherwise and I also think the show has been good for her.  She's come a long way from the hot mess she was in S1 -S3 and hopefully she'll continue on her recovery journey.  Not only do I not want Kim off the show, I would love to have Kathy join!

Edited March 3, 2015 by zulualpha

[WireWrap]

I posted this on first looks but that forum was locked, so I guess here's ok. So here goes...

Well, I've read all your posts and thoughts. Now for mine regarding The Restaurant Rumble. I'm so glad Kim is finally being called out on her unacceptable behavior, even if she won't accept her horrid actions. It, at least, is cathartic for her castmates. However, Lisa R's actions were also unacceptable. When is it ever suitable for someone to throw something at another or a group? I've been an inner city kid, a trailer park teen, a suburban mom, and now an uptown woman and have never seen such behavior. Not because I'm blessed. Because I have never allowed myself to be in escalating situations. I remove myself. Not in flight, like Kyle, but we'll before it comes to that point. Besides, my hair has never been as long and the effect would be lost. JMHO. 

I agree that throwing the wine, breaking the glass on the table and grabbing at Kim's face/chin is not ok, not by a long shot even if I sympathize with how she got to that point, it is never acceptable IMO.

 

 

I see some hounding but Kim is also hearing from people, Kyle and Brandi and Yo, that she's being talked about and that's adding to the hounded feeling.  I understand that.

The only one telling Kim anyone has spoken about her sobriety is Brandi, not Kyle. Kim went to Kyle right before the flight to Canada about what Brandi told her, Kyle did not say anything to Kim other than for Kim to speak to Lisa 1 on 1. And Yolanda did not tell Kim that anyone had talked to her either. All roads lead back to 1 person in Kim's ear, Brandi.

[MatildaMoody]

To quote Pink "I'm not here for your entertainment".  Kim has said in THs that she's been around a long time, has been struggling for a long time and doesn't owe anyone any explanations.  Lisar and to a certain extent Eileen are coming off very narcissistic to  me, forcing their "help" and "concern" on someone who clearly doesn't want it in order to appear to be good people on tv.  I think Lisar's and Eileen's behaviour is borderline abusive and stalkerish towards Kim.  As far as the restaurant blow up goes, Lisar is the one that lunged for Kim's throat and then armed herself by breaking a wine glass.  Lisar was violent and out of control and if anyone should be off the show it should be Lisar, ala Porsha from RHoAtl.

 

I think Kim adds reality to this show that it wouldn't have otherwise and I also think the show has been good for her.  She's come a long way from the hot mess she was in S1 -S3 and hopefully she'll continue on her recovery journey.  Not only do I not want Kim off the show, I would love to have Kathy join!

Neither LisaR or Eileen have forced any type of help onto Kim. LisaR let Kim know that there was help out there for her so that she didn't have to feel alone with all that she was going through. That was the extent of it. Eileen tried to broker peace between the two sisters in a much more gracious way than Kim tried to "broker peace" between Kyle and Brandi. That was the extent of Eileen's involvement.

 

That Kim has a persecution complex and Brandi is feeding that by giving her less than truthful stories about who is doing all of the talking about Kim, does not make Eileen or LisaR abusive in anyway. After the reading, nothing more was said to Kim about her behavior until KIM brought up her sobriety. 

 

Yolanda brought up the subject of Bella's DUI and invited the women to share personal stories to show that no one's life is perfect. Kim assumed that this had to do with her own issues. Since she was already hell bent on being angry at Kyle and LisaR - again thanks to Brandi - she pounced when LisaR tried to offer her an apology. Again, not offer help or advice, but a freaking apology and Kim attacked her for it. 

 

Whether Kim is sober or not I don't care. I just want her gone from this show because not only does she bring nothing to it, she gives Brandi a reason for being on and I am over them both. 

 

ETA: I do not condone LisaR throwing the glass. I do know that if I saw red just watching it on TV, there is no telling how someone witnessing it first hand would react. But, it was not ok and someone could have been seriously injured as a result. That being said, Kim does not belong on this show and neither does Brandi. I NEVER thought that I would say that about either one of them, but their behavior has been beyond insufferable and their misery is not entertaining to me.

Edited March 3, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[copacabana]

I posted this on first looks but that forum was locked, so I guess here's ok. So here goes...

Well, I've read all your posts and thoughts. Now for mine regarding The Restaurant Rumble. I'm so glad Kim is finally being called out on her unacceptable behavior, even if she won't accept her horrid actions. It, at least, is cathartic for her castmates. However, Lisa R's actions were also unacceptable. When is it ever suitable for someone to throw something at another or a group? I've been an inner city kid, a trailer park teen, a suburban mom, and now an uptown woman and have never seen such behavior. Not because I'm blessed. Because I have never allowed myself to be in escalating situations. I remove myself. Not in flight, like Kyle, but we'll before it comes to that point. Besides, my hair has never been as long and the effect would be lost. JMHO. 

 

I get the point and SO wish that Rinna hadn't lost it like that.  But I do understand how and why she did because that was just a whole lot of provocation on top on provocation and unresolved stuff.  If Kim can say that she's in 100 percent pain, which I take to mean real psychological discomfort more than actual physical pain, then in my book some of these other broads get to claim the same ... Being angry, as I'm sure Rinna was over a long period of time, is just NO fun and has an effect on the body chemically. 

 

Kim likes to claim the illness and use it or deny it to justify her crazy behavior, depending on what's going on, but can't seem to get that her colleagues are susceptible to their issues too.  Why do Kim's issues always have to take precedence over anyone else's?  In Kim's mind, because they are her own and everyone else is just supporting cast.   Just because she's an addict, doesn't mean that these other ladies don't have their own problems and may not be in need of help and support.  

 

Again, I wish Rinna hadn't gone there and I fully expect her to apologize and do so in a genuine way but I think she was definitely on-edge and baited into going there.  And people will.  If Kim gets to go there and act out, then by default, it's open to the rest of these ladies.  That's another thing Kim might want to consider as she attempts to navigate the world of other people and her part in it.