Kim Richards: No Escape from Witch Mountain

[thewhiteowl]

If having someone on her side is rare perhaps it is because she is an asshole.

[Wings]

Disagree. If any and every voiced negative comment is considered verbal abuse then the phrase has completely lost its meaning. Kim calling Eileen a beast was an insult (and probably a day in the life for lots of actors) but not verbal abuse -- also, a dumb insult since Eileen is definitely non-beast like . Kim telling Rinna to eat bread or that she'll reveal something about Harry isn't verbal abuse-- it's a passive aggressive way of slamming Rinna (and Kyle, who may have over shared confidences, such as Lisa spends too much time worrying about her appearance or said xyz about her husband) -- kind of like middle school girls saying, "is that really how you're wearing your hair" or "a bunch of us were talking about you but I can't say who"-- words sans meaning designed to provoke. If Kim went on the attack after Rinna constantly, creating a pattern of these kinds of comments then it would be different but we have not seen that.

As for the Kim-Kyle interactions, Kyle gives as good as she gets. From my watching all the seasons, Kyle has a different approach. She talks and whines and complains endlessly, freely (and quite publicly) about how Kim is so difficult to have in her life. Poor Kyle! And Kim, whose behavior is abhorrent at times, seems to have latched onto Brandi as her second, most likely because it's rare that some takes her side and the support is alluring but misguided. Kim and Kyle fight like sisters with bad history and , if there is any true verbal abuse is their relationship, I'd say both are equally guilty.

 

Thundering applause! 

[zoeysmom]

Disagree. If any and every voiced negative comment is considered verbal abuse then the phrase has completely lost its meaning. Kim calling Eileen a beast was an insult (and probably a day in the life for lots of actors) but not verbal abuse -- also, a dumb insult since Eileen is definitely non-beast like . Kim telling Rinna to eat bread or that she'll reveal something about Harry isn't verbal abuse-- it's a passive aggressive way of slamming Rinna (and Kyle, who may have over shared confidences, such as Lisa spends too much time worrying about her appearance or said xyz about her husband) -- kind of like middle school girls saying, "is that really how you're wearing your hair" or "a bunch of us were talking about you but I can't say who"-- words sans meaning designed to provoke. If Kim went on the attack after Rinna constantly, creating a pattern of these kinds of comments then it would be different but we have not seen that.

As for the Kim-Kyle interactions, Kyle gives as good as she gets. From my watching all the seasons, Kyle has a different approach. She talks and whines and complains endlessly, freely (and quite publicly) about how Kim is so difficult to have in her life. Poor Kyle! And Kim, whose behavior is abhorrent at times, seems to have latched onto Brandi as her second, most likely because it's rare that some takes her side and the support is alluring but misguided. Kim and Kyle fight like sisters with bad history and , if there is any true verbal abuse is their relationship, I'd say both are equally guilty.

Tell someone to "shut their fucking mouth" is verbally abusive.  Telling someone they are not a good sister-is verbally abusive. Had the conversation just stopped with Kim's insults -what would have happened at the table?  There would have been an air of oppression created by Kim-over what-she thinks everyone is talking about her sobriety?  It is the oppression she attempts to create that is the abuse. Calling it an insult or passive aggressive doesn't mean it isn't those as well.  The people who lived it and asked Kim to stop talking to her sister or anyone that way probably know more what the feeling in the room was.  Yolanda got on Kim for her words, I think if taking a poll Kim crossed over from being negative and insulting to abusive.  Rinna's word weren't abusive but grabbing for someone's face and throwing water and smashing a glass is certainly an assault-simple assault.  If Lisa were laughing and reached out to Kim, then no it would not be assault, if Lisa were gesticulating and water went on Kim then no it would not be assault if Lisa were laughing and dropped the glass and it shattered it would not be assault but that is not how it happened. 

 

I think because Kim is so often caught being dishonest and her reactions when caught are off the wall that I think of whoever she is conversing with as being more in survival mode.  I have noticed over five years, drunk or sober Kim's personality and way of couching things remain the same.  Kim throws out accusations or a threatens to reveal something as a method of debate.  Both are weak.  If there is something she doesn't like about Kyle-for example she wants Kyle to spend more time with her-then say it.  Don't scream she is not a good sister because she doesn't spend time with her and Brandi is better.  If Kyle doesn't like Brandi because Brandi is rude and hostile towards her-just say it.  Kyle should stop with the I don't want to see Brandi break Kim's heart. . . .no Kyle doesn't want to have to go through Brandi to have a conversation with her sister.   Kyle doesn't want her sister to be friends with someone who hates her-Kim isn't all that different in her desire for Kyle not to be friends with Lisa V. and now Eileen and Lisa R.

Edited April 2, 2015 by zoeysmom

[SistaLadybug]

At some point, when you realize that you don't have many people on your side in your life, you have to take a good hard look at yourself.  Perhaps it's not because the people in your life are awful and mean and unsupportive.  Perhaps you're the one who's in the wrong.  Perhaps you test folks' limits beyond what's reasonable.

 

I don't see where Kim is being held responsible for her behavior.  The way she treated Lisa R. has nothing to do with Kyle.  The way she spoke to Eileen has nothing to do with Kyle.  Her becoming a raging hosebeast (Isn't it interesting how she used the word "beast" on Eileen?  Look in the mirror, mama) in that limousine had nothing to do with Kyle.  She is nasty.  She is mean.  She takes delight in hurting people.

 

Kyle does not have to be a saint or the picture of sisterly perfection in order for Kim's behavior to be unacceptable.  Do I think that Kyle gets some pleasure from having folks stroke her and tell her she's a good sister?  Yes, I do.  But I don't think it at all makes up for what I'm sure have been years of worry, embarrassment, and anxiety on her part.  If we're going to make huge allowances for Kim, why are those not extended to her sister?  It's as if Kyle is held up to a standard that Kim is allowed to skate right on past because of her addiction and frankly, that's bullshit.  Kim has said she should be treated as if she's sober.  Okay, let's treat her that way.  Sober people are expected to be on time.  They are expected to be polite.  They are expected to treat coworkers with respect.  They are expected to observe social niceties.  They are expected to be responsible for their pets and pay any consequences should said pets get out of control.  They are expected to pay bills and understand contracts.  They are expected to complete work assignments.  These are things Kim has not done.  If she no longer has the excuse of addiction, what is the explanation for these behaviors?

[jenny2682]

Kim is abusive just because of her manipulative, crazy making, walking on eggshellsfamily trying to make others feel they need to treat her with kid gloves. Total narcissist behavior. Take the pressure and onus of her and on to others. If others point out her faults there will be hell to pay. She doesn't care who she has to drag down. Next week it looks like it will be her niece.

Normal people reaction -Im sorry my dog bit you. Really sorry as I should have known better because he has done this before. I will pay bills, get rid of dog and hope you feel well. Again sorry.

Narcissistic reaction- Fuck you. Its your fault. How dare you make me feel stupid for doing something that someone with half a brain wouldn't do. I dont care if my dog hurts others, I WANT MY DOG. You point any of this out I will slander and smear you. Doesn't even matter if what I say is true. I just need you to suffer because my ego is that of a one year old. You will suffer.

Kim has been doing shit like this for a LOOONNG time. And yes it can cause PTSD in fami

Edited April 2, 2015 by jenny2682

[nexxie]

I think Kim's addiction issues coupled with childhood star treatment = total asshole behavior.

= true narcissist

Brandi ruthlessly reeled Kim in by feeding her need for adoration - remember the gushing tribute Brandi made to Kim in Amsterdam, when she could only compliment the other ladies' body parts.

Kim is abusive just because of her manipulative, crazy making, walking on eggshellsfamily trying to make others feel they need to treat her with kid gloves. Total narcissist behavior. Take the pressure and onus of her and on to others. If others point out her faults there will be hell to pay. She doesn't care who she has to drag down. Next week it looks like it will be her niece.

Normal people reaction -Im sorry my dog bit you. Really sorry as I should have known better because he has done this before. I will pay bills, get rid of dog and hope you feel well. Again sorry.

Narcissistic reaction- Fuck you. Its your fault. How dare you make me feel stupid for doing something that someone with half a brain wouldn't do. I dont care if my dog hurts others, I WANT MY DOG. You point any of this out I will slander and smear you. Doesn't even matter if what I say is true. I just need you to suffer because my ego is that of a one year old. You will suffer.

Kim has been doing shit like this for a LOOONNG time. And yes it can cause PTSD in fami

Absolutely! These family dynamics are entrenched and horribly toxic. I'll bet Kim was her narcissistic mother's "golden child." Edited April 2, 2015 by nexxie

[Satchels of gold]

My background is in psychology and I respectfully disagree.  Emotional abuse has a definition.  

 

"Psychological abuse, also referred to as emotional abuse or mental abuse, is a form of abuse characterized by a person subjecting or exposing another to behavior that may result in psychological trauma, including anxiety, chronic depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder."

 

"One definition of emotional abuse is: "any act including confinement, isolation, verbal assault, humiliation, intimidation, infantilization, or any other treatment which may diminish the sense of identity, dignity, and self-worth."1

Emotional abuse is also known as psychological abuse or as "chronic verbal aggression" by researchers. People who suffer from emotional abuse tend to have very low self-esteem, show personality changes (such as becoming withdrawn) and may even become depressed, anxious or suicidal."

I am an MSW and I beg to differ. I do think that Kim has made Kyle feel anxious and depressed with her behavoir. In fact, when I see them interact I can almost feel Kyle's anxiety. I also don't doubt there is some PTSD thrown in there as well.

[nexxie]

I am an MSW and I beg to differ. I do think that Kim has made Kyle feel anxious and depressed with her behavoir. In fact, when I see them interact I can almost feel Kyle's anxiety. I also don't doubt there is some PTSD thrown in there as well.

That's what I see too - Kyle shakes involuntarily and actually runs away. Just like a little girl.

It's sickening to watch Kim purposely get an emotional rise out of Kyle, and then hug her - you can imagine how many times this scene was acted out in their childhoods.

[Satchels of gold]

At some point, when you realize that you don't have many people on your side in your life, you have to take a good hard look at yourself.  Perhaps it's not because the people in your life are awful and mean and unsupportive.  Perhaps you're the one who's in the wrong.  Perhaps you test folks' limits beyond what's reasonable.

 

I don't see where Kim is being held responsible for her behavior.  The way she treated Lisa R. has nothing to do with Kyle.  The way she spoke to Eileen has nothing to do with Kyle.  Her becoming a raging hosebeast (Isn't it interesting how she used the word "beast" on Eileen?  Look in the mirror, mama) in that limousine had nothing to do with Kyle.  She is nasty.  She is mean.  She takes delight in hurting people.

 

Kyle does not have to be a saint or the picture of sisterly perfection in order for Kim's behavior to be unacceptable.  Do I think that Kyle gets some pleasure from having folks stroke her and tell her she's a good sister?  Yes, I do.  But I don't think it at all makes up for what I'm sure have been years of worry, embarrassment, and anxiety on her part.  If we're going to make huge allowances for Kim, why are those not extended to her sister?  It's as if Kyle is held up to a standard that Kim is allowed to skate right on past because of her addiction and frankly, that's bullshit.  Kim has said she should be treated as if she's sober.  Okay, let's treat her that way.  Sober people are expected to be on time.  They are expected to be polite.  They are expected to treat coworkers with respect.  They are expected to observe social niceties.  They are expected to be responsible for their pets and pay any consequences should said pets get out of control.  They are expected to pay bills and understand contracts.  They are expected to complete work assignments.  These are things Kim has not done.  If she no longer has the excuse of addiction, what is the explanation for these behaviors?

Amen!

[SCS]

The people who lived it and asked Kim to stop talking to her sister or anyone that way probably know more what the feeling in the room was.

 

 

Well, yes of course. None of us was there in the room -- we can only go by what we view and IMO it doesn't reach the level of verbal abuse.

 

Rinna's word weren't abusive but grabbing for someone's face and throwing water and smashing a glass is certainly an assault-simple assault.

 

In Season 1, when "you stole my house" was spawned into popular culture, we saw Kyle lunge for Kim in that limo -- based on above, only Adrienne placing herself between the sisters kept Kyle from being charged with simple assault. That would have been interesting....

 

 

Kim has said she should be treated as if she's sober.  Okay, let's treat her that way.  Sober people are expected to be on time.  They are expected to be polite.  They are expected to treat coworkers with respect.  They are expected to observe social niceties.  They are expected to be responsible for their pets and pay any consequences should said pets get out of control.  They are expected to pay bills and understand contracts.  They are expected to complete work assignments.  These are things Kim has not done.  If she no longer has the excuse of addiction, what is the explanation for these behaviors?

 

 

I don't disagree. It's up to her employer to enforce the contract. Why Bravo chooses to not do so -- well, probably ratings. Not pretty but hey, reality television today and all that.

 

Normal people reaction -Im sorry my dog bit you. Really sorry as I should have known better because he has done this before. I will pay bills, get rid of dog and hope you feel well. Again sorry.

Narcissistic reaction- Fuck you. Its your fault. How dare you make me feel stupid for doing something that someone with half a brain wouldn't do. I dont care if my dog hurts others, I WANT MY DOG. You point any of this out I will slander and smear you. Doesn't even matter if what I say is true. I just need you to suffer because my ego is that of a one year old. You will suffer.

 

 

I don't think anyone here is defending Kim's behavior with that dog -- horrendous. As to whether she tries to absolve Kingsley by blaming her niece for the attack, I would hope not but I guess we'll see as the reunion rolls on.

[SistaLadybug]

That's what I see too - Kyle shakes involuntarily and actually runs away. Just like a little girl.

It's sickening to watch Kim purposely get an emotional rise out of Kyle, and then hug her - you can imagine how many times this scene was acted out in their childhoods.

And this is what abusers do.  "Look what you made me do.  I didn't want to hurt you."  Kisses and hugs and gifts and all is right with the world until you mess up again.  So you walk on eggshells, hoping that you won't say or do anything today that will set them off.  You make excuses.  You tell people that it's partly your fault.  You cry and beg.  And the cycle repeats.

 

I'm not in psychology but I recognize abuse when I see it.

[Satchels of gold]

If indeed Lisa R suffers from anorexia I find mocking her about it, abusive as well. Just for the record I didn't like when Lisa R responded on Twitter either. It really lowered my opinion of her.

[nexxie]

And this is what abusers do.  "Look what you made me do.  I didn't want to hurt you."  Kisses and hugs and gifts and all is right with the world until you mess up again.  So you walk on eggshells, hoping that you won't say or do anything today that will set them off.  You make excuses.  You tell people that it's partly your fault.  You cry and beg.  And the cycle repeats.

 

I'm not in psychology but I recognize abuse when I see it.

Oh yeah, and this behavior is on page one of the handbook that every narcissist goes by. It's stunning how alike they all are!

I found that scene in Kyle's desert kitchen really heartbreaking. Kim switches gears and becomes the comforting big sister, and then Kyle hides her face against Kim's body and sobs.

[Sincerely Yours]

If having someone on her side is rare perhaps it is because she is an asshole.

I would be on her side. Addicts need love too. :-)

[nexxie]

If indeed Lisa R suffers from anorexia I find mocking her about it, abusive as well. Just for the record I didn't like when Lisa R responded on Twitter either. It really lowered my opinion of her.

If LisaR suffers from anorexia it would be pretty ballsy of her to whip everyone into such a state about Kim's situation - anorexia is just as dangerous.

[SCS]

If LisaR suffers from anorexia it would be pretty ballsy of her to whip everyone into such a state about Kim's situation - anorexia is just as dangerous.

Interesting point -- I had not thought of this.

[zoeysmom]

If indeed Lisa R suffers from anorexia I find mocking her about it, abusive as well. Just for the record I didn't like when Lisa R responded on Twitter either. It really lowered my opinion of her.

I am still trying to find the humor in Brandi's text, "anorexic old hag", that Brandi doesn't get it you just can't play the old age card in Hollywood.

 

Lisa needs to back off of Twitter or else we will be hearing about it in 5 years.  BH seems to have a lot of cast twitter attacks.

[jnymph]

Did I hear correctly that there is a hearing next week in re: to Kim's dog attacking the elderly lady friend of hers ?

I am floored that Kingsley is still with Kim. Does she not realize the attacks he has made thus far have been most likely been simple "warnings" in his world? Lord help whoever is around when that dog goes into full attack mode.

I say this based on training I had to have to volunteer at Humane Society near Detroit back in 2005.

Kim says her children are her world ........... I don't get why she wouldn't be terrified that Kingsley may seriously harm or even kill one of them.(obviously when they come home.... She's an empty - nester now, I think)

Edited April 2, 2015 by jnymph

[motorcitymom65]

And this is what abusers do.  "Look what you made me do.  I didn't want to hurt you."  Kisses and hugs and gifts and all is right with the world until you mess up again.  So you walk on eggshells, hoping that you won't say or do anything today that will set them off.  You make excuses.  You tell people that it's partly your fault.  You cry and beg.  And the cycle repeats.

 

I'm not in psychology but I recognize abuse when I see it.

The scene between Kim and Kyle in PS reminded me of an abusive relationship to a degree. Kim yelling at Kyle that she was a liar, that even her friends thought she was a liar, then accusing her again of taking her GD house.  Then Kyle cries and runs away. Kim comes in, takes her in her arms and soothes her. If you watch it again it is shocking how Kyle is just holding onto Kim for dear life. She is clinging to her. It reminds me of a friend I use to have who had a dick for a boyfriend. He was always telling her she was fat, or dumb, or had no friends for whatever reason. She would eventually run out crying and he would always go in and reassure her that he still loved her no matter what. He was the one to break her heart, but he wanted her to believe that he also had the key to making it sing. 

[Satchels of gold]

If LisaR suffers from anorexia it would be pretty ballsy of her to whip everyone into such a state about Kim's situation - anorexia is just as dangerous.

Kim has admitted she is an addict and claims to be in recovery. Lisa has made no such admission and does not claim to be in treatment. There is some debate about whether Lisa's concern for Kim was genuine or not. No doubt about it " calm down and eat some bread" is not couched in any concern. It's just plain mocking of a mental illness. Big difference!

[nexxie]

Kim has admitted she is an addict and claims to be in recovery. Lisa has made no such admission and does not claim to be in treatment. There is some debate about whether Lisa's concern for Kim was genuine or not. No doubt about it " calm down and eat some bread" is not couched in any concern. It's just plain mocking of a mental illness. Big difference!

Kim was just lashing out, not coming from a caring place.

Still, I think it would take either denial about her own condition or real arrogance for Lisa to make such a big deal about Kim if she had her own serious problem.

I would also say that if Lisa is really not eating around the other women it's fair to mention it (I would hope politely).

Edited April 2, 2015 by nexxie

[Satchels of gold]

I think it's also pretty ballsy of Kim to mock mental illness when we know that at least one of her children suffers from serious mental health issues, it's also pretty ballsy to threaten to "tell the real story" about the dog bite that Kyle won't like , when she expects a conspiracy of silence around her children. Or when she gets mad at Lisa for missing an event (after an rsvp stating she would not attend) yet she's a no show for Pandoras wedding. Kim has a different standard for others then she does herself.

[nexxie]

I think it's also pretty ballsy of Kim to mock mental illness when we know that at least one of her children suffers from serious mental health issues, it's also pretty ballsy to threaten to "tell the real story" about the dog bite that Kyle won't like , when she expects a conspiracy of silence around her children. Or when she gets mad at Lisa for missing an event (after an rsvp stating she would not attend) yet she's a no show for Pandoras wedding. Kim has a different standard for others then she does herself.

Oh for sure - Kim is a full-blown narcissist.

[SCS]

... it's also pretty ballsy to threaten to "tell the real story" about the dog bite that Kyle won't like , when she expects a conspiracy of silence around her children. Or when she gets mad at Lisa for missing an event (after an rsvp stating she would not attend) yet she's a no show for Pandoras wedding. Kim has a different standard for others then she does herself.

Yes but this behavior seems to be part of the RH playbook, eg, NYC Ramona going to town on everyone else's marriage and family situation but demanding discretion for Mario and Avery, or revolting OC Tammy Sue for whom no one and no thing is off limits yet who descends into hysteria (and the throwing of balled-up cyst-&-decease orders) if someone speaks with her ex or gives a statement about her divorce.

[zoeysmom]

The only reason I don't believe Rinna is an anorexic is that she has made it to the ripe old age of 51.  I think she has an obsession with her body but I don't necessarily know if it is anorexic or bulimia or any other defined eating disorder.  Brandi seemed to think it was very important that we know that Lisa had never taken a bite of food in front of her-interesting but I did see Lisa eat cake in front of her and Lisa attend a dinner party or two and I just don't know that Lisa just didn't eat.  Often times (and wisely) reality people will have a clause they do not want to be filmed while eating, exiting the bathroom, in bed or the like.  Brandi made a big deal over Kenya Moore having a do not film while eating on her Celebrity Apprentice contract and then claimed she ate like an animal and all the while talking about what a big person Kenya is.   

 

So Kim furthering Brandi's agenda that Rinna has an eating disorder is par for the course. 

[nexxie]

The only reason I don't believe Rinna is an anorexic is that she has made it to the ripe old age of 51.  I think she has an obsession with her body but I don't necessarily know if it is anorexic or bulimia or any other defined eating disorder.  Brandi seemed to think it was very important that we know that Lisa had never taken a bite of food in front of her-interesting but I did see Lisa eat cake in front of her and Lisa attend a dinner party or two and I just don't know that Lisa just didn't eat.  Often times (and wisely) reality people will have a clause they do not want to be filmed while eating, exiting the bathroom, in bed or the like.  Brandi made a big deal over Kenya Moore having a do not film while eating on her Celebrity Apprentice contract and then claimed she ate like an animal and all the while talking about what a big person Kenya is.   

 

So Kim furthering Brandi's agenda that Rinna has an eating disorder is par for the course.

I probably wouldn't eat while filming, just so there would be no bits stuck in my teeth. lol

Lisa explained her weight - really doubt she'd bring up the addiction thing if she was struggling with anorexia.

[MatildaMoody]

Kim was just lashing out, not coming from a caring place.

Still, I think it would take either denial about her own condition or real arrogance for Lisa to make such a big deal about Kim if she had her own serious problem.

I would also say that if Lisa is really not eating around the other women it's fair to mention it (I would hope politely).

 

I don't think there is an issue with Lisa Rinna's eating. We have seen her eating on camera. Maybe Brandi hasn't seen it because Brandi tends to dampen most people's appetites or because she was drunk. We have actually seen her eating on camera more than Brandi, Kim, Kyle or Lisa V. The only other person that we have seen eating more and seeming to enjoy eating is Eileen. But, we all saw all of the women eating at Eileen's house.

 

ETA: The only people we didn't see eating at Eileen's were the two who were the most fucked up that night - Kim and Brandi. I can't think of a time when I saw Brandi eating on camera, but I sure have seen her drinking.

Edited April 2, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[zoeysmom]

Yes but this behavior seems to be part of the RH playbook, eg, NYC Ramona going to town on everyone else's marriage and family situation but demanding discretion for Mario and Avery, or revolting OC Tammy Sue for whom no one and no thing is off limits yet who descends into hysteria (and the throwing of balled-up cyst-&-decease orders) if someone speaks with her ex or gives a statement about her divorce.

What does Ramona or Tamra  have to do with Kim?  Jill and LuAnn did make comments about Mario cheating in Season 4 at the Reunion -so there was really no honor amongst thieves in that group. 

 

Kim has been doing this since Season 1 with her reckless accusations.

[SCS]

What does Ramona or Tamra  have to do with Kim?  Jill and LuAnn did make comments about Mario cheating in Season 4 at the Reunion -so there was really no honor amongst thieves in that group. 

 

Kim has been doing this since Season 1 with her reckless accusations.

Did you not read the snippet to which I was responding?  nc socialworker wrote: "...when she expects a conspiracy of silence around her children." My comment is to that. All these women across the franchise demand their kids and families be off limits yet don't extend the same courtesy to their co-HWs. Tams and Ramona were simply examples of the behavior that Kim is demonstrating. Hope that makes it clearer for you.

Edited April 2, 2015 by steelcitysister

[Satchels of gold]

I see a resolve in Kyle that I haven't seen before. I think Kim really over played her hand this time with the dog bite incident itself and the emotional blackmail on the reunion. I think Kyle will put up with a lot of things but not attacking her children. I also loved her answer that any conversation with Kim would have to be honest. I think this was short hand for "I'm not going along with your lies anymore".

Edited April 2, 2015 by nc socialworker

[SwordQueen]

At some point, when you realize that you don't have many people on your side in your life, you have to take a good hard look at yourself.  Perhaps it's not because the people in your life are awful and mean and unsupportive.  Perhaps you're the one who's in the wrong.  Perhaps you test folks' limits beyond what's reasonable.

 

I don't see where Kim is being held responsible for her behavior.  The way she treated Lisa R. has nothing to do with Kyle.  The way she spoke to Eileen has nothing to do with Kyle.  Her becoming a raging hosebeast (Isn't it interesting how she used the word "beast" on Eileen?  Look in the mirror, mama) in that limousine had nothing to do with Kyle.  She is nasty.  She is mean.  She takes delight in hurting people.

 

Kyle does not have to be a saint or the picture of sisterly perfection in order for Kim's behavior to be unacceptable.  Do I think that Kyle gets some pleasure from having folks stroke her and tell her she's a good sister?  Yes, I do.  But I don't think it at all makes up for what I'm sure have been years of worry, embarrassment, and anxiety on her part.  If we're going to make huge allowances for Kim, why are those not extended to her sister?  It's as if Kyle is held up to a standard that Kim is allowed to skate right on past because of her addiction and frankly, that's bullshit.  Kim has said she should be treated as if she's sober.  Okay, let's treat her that way.  Sober people are expected to be on time.  They are expected to be polite.  They are expected to treat coworkers with respect.  They are expected to observe social niceties.  They are expected to be responsible for their pets and pay any consequences should said pets get out of control.  They are expected to pay bills and understand contracts.  They are expected to complete work assignments.  These are things Kim has not done.  If she no longer has the excuse of addiction, what is the explanation for these behaviors?

 

This is so true.  It's beyond unreasonable that Kim isn't held to the same standards as everyone else just because she's an addict.  There are so many reasons and causes why people behave in certain ways, so why do those (or just Kim) with substance abuse get a free pass?  Why not people with gambling addictions?  Sex addictions?  OCD?  Diabetes?  Should everyone who has a diagnosable health problem get a free pass on being accountable for themselves?  Or is it just substance abusers, or just Kim Richards who is allowed to treat the world like shit and still get a pat on the back and a cookie?   

 

I am an MSW and I beg to differ. I do think that Kim has made Kyle feel anxious and depressed with her behavoir. In fact, when I see them interact I can almost feel Kyle's anxiety. I also don't doubt there is some PTSD thrown in there as well.

 

That's what I see too - Kyle shakes involuntarily and actually runs away. Just like a little girl.

It's sickening to watch Kim purposely get an emotional rise out of Kyle, and then hug her - you can imagine how many times this scene was acted out in their childhoods.

 

I agree with both of you.  I've said it before that I totally believe that Kyle's "duck and cover" and "run and hide" reactions are instinctual based on past trauma with her mother and sisters.  Kim's treatment of Kyle on Poker Night, the mocking and criticizing of Kyle on the plane to Amsterdam and their fight in PS told me all I needed to know about their relationship dynamics.  In my opinion it is abusive and no different really than when a man does this to his wife/girlfriend/daughter.  Can you imagine the uproar if one of the men on this show mocked their spouse for cowering while he was fighting with someone else?  Why is this acceptable coming from Kim?  And Brandi too, for that matter?  I'm always blown away with how much "pretty" or "fragile" women can away with when they act like abusive assholes and thugs.   

 

I'm not in psychology but I recognize abuse when I see it.

 

Exactly.  Giving in to the Narcissistic treatment and blaming of others by both Kim and Brandi goes against everything I've been taught from years of counseling and from my own instincts as a survivor of abuse. 

 

 

I can't and won't say if I think Lisa R has an eating disorder.  I'm a [diagnosed] anorexic, myself, and I can tell you, it's not always easy to tell.  Plus, just as I've said with Brandi, just because someone may have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol or food, that doesn't always mean they have a diagnosable disorder.  A large portion of the US has disordered eating habits/unhealthy relationship with food and an obsession with weight.   Plus if you take into consideration that she's a working actress and Hollywood standards for weight and body type are much more strict than any other business except fashion, I don't see how anyone can say for sure.  But if she does have an eating disorder and it's as severe as Drunk and Drunker are making it seem, then damn I'm in awe because she has so much freaking energy and muscle tone and I don't know how she accomplishes that unless she's getting a certain amount of nutrients on a consistent basis for extended periods of time. 

 

And there's nothing morally wrong or shameful about having an eating disorder, just as there's nothing morally wrong or shameful about having a substance abuse problem.  What is morally wrong and shameful are Kim and Brandi's actions of purposefully hurting other people and not taking responsibility for their own actions when they are under the influence (or in general).  If having an ED correlated to someone acting like a total abusive asshole towards other people, then yeah, I can see how calling them out on it, not only for their horrible actions but the possible cause of their actions (the disorder), would make some kind of sense.   However Kim and Brandi are just disgusting, empty souls, who enjoy hurting other people, plain and simple.   

 

 

ETA:  I also wanted to add that my dislike for Kim Richards has nothing, zero to do with the fact that she's an addict.  I may have buckets of empathy for the hell that is addiction and mental illness, but that doesn't mean I have endless empathy for all addicts and sufferers.  To me, and this may sound weird, giving the same consideration and empathy to every addict just because they are an addict waters down the effort that some put into their recovery and into bettering their life and the strength of character that some show through their adversity.

Edited April 2, 2015 by SwordQueen

[Trooper York]

Well Kim has an eating disorder.

 

Her dog keeps trying to eat her niece. 

[zoeysmom]

Did you not read the snippet to which I was responding?  nc socialworker wrote: "...when she expects a conspiracy of silence around her children." My comment is to that. All these women across the franchise demand their kids and families be off limits yet don't extend the same courtesy to their co-HWs. Tams and Ramona were simply examples of the behavior that Kim is demonstrating. Hope that makes it clearer for you.

I understood perfectly what ncsociaworker was speaking to-Kim has a mentally ill child and does not want his condition discussed.  In the case of Ramona she tried to use her husband's infidelity as hurtful to her daughter, same with Tamra-she tried to use her ex's comments about her as hurtful to her children.  The cases of Ramona and Tamra are entirely different from Kyle's daughter's dog bite.  This is Kim intentionally using a child's situation and threatening to expose damaging information (the threat enough is enough to ever make Kim slimier than pond scum) to gain an advantage in an argument with Kyle.  This isn't about the children being hurt over their parent or a parent's action. 

[MatildaMoody]

I see a resolve in Kyle that I haven't seen before. I think Kim really over played her hand this time with the dog bite incident itself and the emotional blackmail on the reunion. I think Kyle will put up with a lot of things but not attacking her children. I also loved her answer that any conversation with Kim would have to be honest. I think this was short hand for "I'm not going along with your lies anymore".

I agree. The way she said that she was only interested in having an HONEST conversation spoke volumes to me. And you could see Kim react to it as well. 

[SCS]

I understood perfectly what ncsociaworker was speaking to-Kim has a mentally ill child and does not want his condition discussed.  In the case of Ramona she tried to use her husband's infidelity as hurtful to her daughter, same with Tamra-she tried to use her ex's comments about her as hurtful to her children.  The cases of Ramona and Tamra are entirely different from Kyle's daughter's dog bite.  This is Kim intentionally using a child's situation and threatening to expose damaging information (the threat enough is enough to ever make Kim slimier than pond scum) to gain an advantage in an argument with Kyle.  This isn't about the children being hurt over their parent or a parent's action. 

And again -- my comment was strictly in relation to the silence that sundry HWs demand without extending the same courtesy to others. Standard self-entitled behavior across the franchise. Said it several times now so I think this post should suffice.  I've also said -- somewhere in these teeming threads -- that Kim's behavior regarding the dog bite is terrible.  

[parisprincess]

I think it would take either denial about her own condition or real arrogance for Lisa to make such a big deal about Kim if she had her own serious problem.

I would also say that if Lisa is really not eating around the other women it's fair to mention it (I would hope politely).

 

I don't believe that LisaR has an eating disorder.  As Eileen, who has known her for years, said, she has always been thin, but is also athletic and works out.  I've seen her eating on the show, so as long as she's healthy, I don't see a problem, regardless of what Brandi or Kim say (but then I don't put much stock in anything either of them say.)

 

Also, I must say that Kim's skin at the reunion looked like old wrinkled leather.  She looked even worse than Brandi with her puffy face.

Edited April 2, 2015 by parisprincess

[LotusFlower]

She's on the other end of some real trying shit in her life for sure but I think there is no real evidence to suggest that because she's unhappy with the circumstances of her sisters life and her role in that that now she's abused? Emotionally distraught, and torn granted, but she's not rendered helpless by Kim. I mean should she go into protective hiding now? Halfway house, change her identify? Pick up the kids and run to a shelter?

By referencing shelters and protective hiding, you seem to associate abuse only with the physical kind. As others here have pointed out, the A word can also apply to emotional, mental, and verbal abuse.

My background is in psychology and I respectfully disagree.  Emotional abuse has a definition.  

 

"Psychological abuse, also referred to as emotional abuse or mental abuse, is a form of abuse characterized by a person subjecting or exposing another to behavior that may result in psychological trauma, including anxiety, chronic depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder."

 

"One definition of emotional abuse is: "any act including confinement, isolation, verbal assault, humiliation, intimidation, infantilization, or any other treatment which may diminish the sense of identity, dignity, and self-worth."1

Emotional abuse is also known as psychological abuse or as "chronic verbal aggression" by researchers. People who suffer from emotional abuse tend to have very low self-esteem, show personality changes (such as becoming withdrawn) and may even become depressed, anxious or suicidal."

It's funny to me that I can read this description and see so much of Kim and Kyle in it.

[LotusFlower]

I am an MSW and I beg to differ. I do think that Kim has made Kyle feel anxious and depressed with her behavoir. In fact, when I see them interact I can almost feel Kyle's anxiety.

I am always feeling Kyle's discomfort and anxiety through the screen. Maybe it's one of those things you can only get if you've experienced it, cuz I can spot it from a mile away. (Or, if you're an MSW!)

And this is what abusers do.  "Look what you made me do.  I didn't want to hurt you."  Kisses and hugs and gifts and all is right with the world until you mess up again.  So you walk on eggshells, hoping that you won't say or do anything today that will set them off.  You make excuses.  You tell people that it's partly your fault.  You cry and beg.  And the cycle repeats.

The scene between Kim and Kyle in PS reminded me of an abusive relationship to a degree. Kim yelling at Kyle that she was a liar, that even her friends thought she was a liar, then accusing her again of taking her GD house.  Then Kyle cries and runs away. Kim comes in, takes her in her arms and soothes her. If you watch it again it is shocking how Kyle is just holding onto Kim for dear life. She is clinging to her.

Yes, this scene was textbook abuser/abusee.

Another stark example, as I think other posters have pointed out, was the scene on the plane when Kim was ranting/lecturing LisaR. Kyle squirming and hiding under her blanket was such a clear manifestation of how Kim's behavior affects her- she was literally hiding, almost in a child-like, "make it stop" kind of way. And then, of course, Kim later mocking her for this is the other side of this coin.

[SwordQueen]

By referencing shelters and protective hiding, you seem to associate abuse only with the physical kind. As others here have pointed out, the A word can also apply to emotional, mental, and verbal abuse.

 

 

Agree.  It's dismissive, imo, of the very real effect that abusive behaviors have on people by making it seem like abuse is only abuse if one has to run for their lives because of it or has their life being threatened by it.  Anyone, absolutely anyone can display abusive behaviors.  Now that doesn't necessarily mean that they exhibit these behaviors all of the time and to the same person, or would be considered an abuser in the clinical sense, but certain behaviors are generally agreed upon as being abusive. 

 

We, as the viewing audience, have seen Kim repeatedly display some of them towards Bad Sister Kyle and to the rest of the HW, throughout multiple seasons.  We have also seen Kyle react to these behaviors with anxiety, shock, terror, shame, embarrassment, anger, resentment, confusion, an abundance of sadness, and enabling co-dependency.   This doesn't mean Kyle hasn't been guilty of exhibiting abusive behaviors, either, nor does it mean that Kyle is a perfect person or is likeable or anything at all.  The effect of Kim's actions and her responsibility towards her actions does not hinge on Kyle's likeability factor, imo. 

[Higgins]

It's kind of like being dismissive of mental health issues that don't look like actively psychotic homeless people.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Higgins

[LotusFlower]

It's kind of like being dismissive of mental health issues that don't look like actively psychotic homeless people.

But no one know if Kim has a mental health issue.

[Satchels of gold]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mattcherette/the-disturbing-footage-of-a-drug-addled-kim-richar?sub=1366621_222110

[SwordQueen]

I haven't read on this board where anyone had said that Kim is dismissed because she doesn't actively look like a psychotic homeless person (what does that look like anyway?).  Illness comes in all shapes, sizes, ages, and colors, as well as income-brackets, and the only other thing that ties us all together (besides our illness(es)) is the responsibility we have for ourselves, as all people have, really, ill or healthy.  Many of us here have mental health issues and/or have loved ones with mental health issues, so I don't think anyone has just one image of what someone who suffers looks like.  Plenty of people have health issues that look similar to Kim's, or what we know to be Kim's issues, which we only know to be alcoholism and perhaps anxiety.  Plenty of people struggle with health issues and do not act in abusive or hurtful ways towards others or are unapologetic when they do act in ways that are hurtful, abusive or offensive. Being an addict doesn't mean you never have to say you're sorry, and in fact, being apologetic for offenses towards others is one of the necessary steps of recovery/sobriety. 

 

If someone cannot be responsible for themselves because they don't know right from wrong or are not in touch with reality most of the time, then they need to be monitored and cared for by someone else or in a facility that can care for them.  I don't see that as unreasonable or unfair.  I see that as the most responsible and caring thing, not only for the individual, but for society.  Now Kim can obviously function enough to sign legal forms and be on a TV show and seems to know right from wrong, from the little I've seen of her on the show, so I don't see why she can't be held responsible and accountable for her actions.  She hurts people.  She may be hurting, yes, but she hurts people.  Abusers and bullies have often been victims of abuse and bullying themselves, nothing uncommon with that.  However, she doesn't get a free pass to be hurtful because of that or because of her addictions and other illnesses, not with me, not with many other viewers, not with Kim's children (from what Kim has told us) and not with many of the other HW, either.   

[Higgins]

Oh, people did. You think Kim need to be committed?

[Satchels of gold]

I know there were people saying Kyle did indeed steal Kims house because Kim was too drunk/ drug addled to make a rational legal decesion about the sale of the house. I suppose Kyle should have just waited and hoped and prayed that Kim would sober up eventually so she could settle the estate. That's the cloest I remember to saying she was unable to act in her own self interest.

[SwordQueen]

Oh, people did. You think Kim need to be committed?

 

Please reread what I have written -- the answer is in there, I promise! 

[LotusFlower]

I know there were people saying Kyle did indeed steal Kims house because Kim was too drunk/ drug addled to make a rational legal decesion about the sale of the house. I suppose Kyle should have just waited and hoped and prayed that Kim would sober up eventually so she could settle the estate. That's the cloest I remember to saying she was unable to act in her own self interest.

But it doesn't even matter, since Kim, as far as anyone knows, is not mentally unstable. No one can be accused of dismissing a mental issue if said issue doesn't exist.

[zoeysmom]

I know there were people saying Kyle did indeed steal Kims house because Kim was too drunk/ drug addled to make a rational legal decesion about the sale of the house. I suppose Kyle should have just waited and hoped and prayed that Kim would sober up eventually so she could settle the estate. That's the cloest I remember to saying she was unable to act in her own self interest.

Actually more than two years passed between the mom's death and the sale of the house.  Kathy agreed to the sale and Kim cashed her check.  This house was not a big deal a little tract house with a mortgage.  Mom bought Kim her own house in the tract.   

[breezy424]

Actually more than two years passed between the mom's death and the sale of the house.  Kathy agreed to the sale and Kim cashed her check.  This house was not a big deal a little tract house with a mortgage.  Mom bought Kim her own house in the tract.   

I always thought it interesting that Kim claimed that Kyle stole 'her' house.  It's very revealing about Kim.  It was the three girls' house.  Not Kim's.  Just another insight into Kim's entitlement issues. 

[WireWrap]

I always thought it interesting that Kim claimed that Kyle stole 'her' house.  It's very revealing about Kim.  It was the three girls' house.  Not Kim's.  Just another insight into Kim's entitlement issues. 

Kim also claimed she paid for that house, bought it for her mom, when the truth is that Big Kathy bought/paid for a house for Kim.  Kim's sense of entitlement knows no bounds.