Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[andromeda331]

On 7/24/2024 at 10:22 PM, Annber03 said:

Mind, I haven't seen this show, but based off my time watching true crime stories about polygamous cults, or what's his face in the commercials I see for that "Sister Wives" show, or whatnot,  this detail seems like a fairly accurate portrayal of those kinds of relationships. 'Cause that's the exact same question I have when I see those shows, or commercials for them - "What the hell kind of pull does this guy have over these women?"

That's what I want to know. All the wives of Sister Wives were so into Kody. I could never figure out why? Same with all the others on shows or that were on Sister Wives.

[BlueSkies]

I have very fond memories of Garfield.  But in retrospect he was way too mean to Nermal

 

 

[Ambrosefolly]

From over a decade ago on the show Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 23, Steven, June Colburn's ex-fiancé, especially after told June he cheated on her because she was "boring" and she was the reason their relationship ended .No, that is why you dump someone, not keep dating and get engaged to them. June was delightfully quirky & wholesome who was open to going out of her comfort zone if it didn't violate her moral code.  I would wager that some of the perceived "boringness" was because her working on her Masters and her personal responsibility to that goal, since her parents were funding the degree. I wanted to punch his stupid face through the screen, especially after he took that sigh of relief. I fanwank deep down he couldn't handle that June said she dumped him for being a cheater (which was true) so blaming her removed his culpability for being a shitty person. If June being boring was true, then the only person he would be cheating on her with was the nurse, but he had others, including the nurse's sister. (I wonder the mental gymnastics he went through the justify that). I believe he would have liked nothing more than to be married to June, because she was charming & smart and would pause or even give up her career to take care of him and their kids, while he screwed around behind her back.

What I liked about the show is it showed why people liked someone like Chloe & hated someone like Steven, even though they both could be labeled as sociopaths. Chloe rarely lied to herself about who she was or even blamed others for her behavior (except for her parents) while that is all Steven did.

Edited August 13 by Ambrosefolly

[kathyk2]

I thought of two other characters I hate because they never faced consequences for anything they did. Frank Burns from MASH and the Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files. Frank was always complaining about order and discipline while he was cheating on his wife with Margaret. Adultery is illegal in the military. 

The Cigarette Smoking Man tried to kill Mulder and Scully and experimented on his former wife and son.

[partofme]

3 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

thought of two other characters I hate because they never faced consequences for anything they did. Frank Burns from MASH and the Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files. Frank was always complaining about order and discipline while he was cheating on his wife with Margaret. Adultery is illegal in the military.

I recently started binge watching MASH for the first time ever ( I had seen some random episodes in the past but the only thing I remember from it is Klinger).  Frank may be an asshole and I would hate him in real life but Hawkeye and his sidekick (whether it be Trapper or BJ because they’re interchangeable to me) are such bullies to Frank who comes across as so pathetic that I can’t bring myself to hate him and actually root for him against Hawkeye and even though it’s hopeless I root for him to become a better person and live happily ever after with Margaret.  

[kathyk2]

On 8/11/2024 at 6:37 PM, partofme said:

I recently started binge watching MASH for the first time ever ( I had seen some random episodes in the past but the only thing I remember from it is Klinger).  Frank may be an asshole and I would hate him in real life but Hawkeye and his sidekick (whether it be Trapper or BJ because they’re interchangeable to me) are such bullies to Frank who comes across as so pathetic that I can’t bring myself to hate him and actually root for him against Hawkeye and even though it’s hopeless I root for him to become a better person and live happily ever after with Margaret.  

Frank was incompetent and was mean to everyone. Did you see the episode where he claimed he earned a Purple Heart? Margaret was a better character once he left. Charles was a better character because he had depth.

[partofme]

17 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Frank was incompetent and was mean to everyone. Did you see the episode where he claimed he earned a Purple Heart? Margaret was a better character once he left. Charles was a better character because he had depth.

I’ve seen the episode, I know what Frank is like, I never agree with the things he does, but I can’t abide bullying and Frank is bullied mercilessly and he comes across as so pathetic and needy and it has made me team Frank.  I can’t help but wonder if he’s on the spectrum, he’s so rigid and by the book and refuses to ever bend the rules.  He desperately wants to be liked but doesn’t seem to understand human interaction.  I can’t help but feel bad for him and if I’m the only member of the Frank Burns fan club I’m okay with it. 
 

And as far as cheating goes, they all do it.   Henry Blake and Trapper were always cheating on their wives with anything that moved.  Even Hawkeye hooked up with married women.  

Edited August 13 by partofme

[Mabinogia]

18 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Charles was a better character because he had depth.

Charles also could hold his own against Hawkeye and BJ. Frank was a weasel who had no problem going behind their backs but really couldn't spar with them. Charles was also a better doctor. He might have been pompous, arrogant, sometimes insufferable, but they respected his work. I think they wouldn't have been as hard on Frank if he was at least competent. 

I feel bad for Larry Linville because Frank Burns was a tough character to make likable. But he's the perfect example, for me, of a love to hate characters. We were meant to dislike him, but Larry was a good enough actor to make him watchable. So I didn't hate him in that "get this asshole off my screen" kind of way I do others, but in a "OMG I can't believe this idiot, but he's entertaining" kind of way. 

[Palimelon]

The problem with Frank was that they needed to let him "win" every once in a while against Hawkeye/Trapper/BJ, which I don't think he ever did. When it's always that one sided, it becomes boring after a while. I think that's another reason why Charles worked a bit better too, for me.

[kathyk2]

1 hour ago, partofme said:

I’ve seen the episode, I know what Frank is like, I never agree with the things he does, but I can’t abide bullying and Frank is bullied mercilessly and he comes across as so pathetic and needy and it has made me team Frank.  I can’t help but wonder if he’s on the spectrum, he’s so rigid and by the book and refuses to ever bend the rules.  He desperately wants to be liked but doesn’t seem to understand human interaction.  I can’t help but feel bad for him and if I’m the only member of the Frank Burns fan club I’m okay with it. 
 

And as far as cheating goes, they all do it.   Henry Blake and Trapper were always cheating on their wives with anything that moved.  Even Hawkeye hooked up with married women.  

Frank can't be by the book if he's willing to cheat on his wife with Margaret. 

[Dimity]

I didn't like Frank Burns but I thought Larry Linville did an awesome job with his character.  At the end of the day I did feel sorry for Frank, he was weak and often came across as pathetic, but he was also not a very good surgeon, he cheated on his wife and he was often trying to get others in serious trouble.  Like trying to get Henry court martialed as one prime example.  

[andromeda331]

I hated Frank. He was annoying weasel, pathetic, and terrible to everyone. I didn't like Henry and Trapper cheating on their wives either or Hawkeye sleeping with marrid women. I get it happened but it never felt like it happened because they were at war. It did feel like we were suppose to hate Frank for cheating on his wife while ignoring the others. 

But the one thing I do feel bad for Frank is when Margaret returns suddenly married. She's so happy and actually expects Frank to be happy for her. Why would he be happy for her? They've been together for a long time and it was out of be the blue. When she left they were still together. He was devastated. Of course he would be. 

[proserpina65]

18 hours ago, partofme said:

Frank is bullied mercilessly and he comes across as so pathetic and needy and it has made me team Frank.

Frank was a bully too.

[Chaos Theory]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

But the one thing I do feel bad for Frank is when Margaret returns suddenly married. She's so happy and actually expects Frank to be happy for her. Why would he be happy for her? They've been together for a long time and it was out of be the blue. When she left they were still together. He was devastated. Of course he would be. 

Frank was also married with no intention of leaving his wife.  On the couple occasions when his wife seemed to question him about his fidelity he always threw Margaret under the bus.    His fantasy was to return home to his wife and keep Margaret on the side.    So yeah maybe when Margaret comes back to camp all happy with a man who appears to actually want to  make a life with her she is kind of blind to how hurt Frank actually is but he never intended to do right by Margaret so I only have a little sympathy for him.    They both snip at each other but it is on them both.

Edited August 14 by Chaos Theory

[gerwulf]

Started watching Haven again and quickly remembered how much I hated the character Nathan.....would punch him in the face daily if he was real and not a cop

[Mabinogia]

18 hours ago, gerwulf said:

Started watching Haven again and quickly remembered how much I hated the character Nathan.....would punch him in the face daily if he was real and not a cop

I recently did a rewatch of season 1 of Haven. I was never a huge Nathan fan but I was more of a Nathan/Audrey fan than an Audrey/Duke fan. I just hate when writers do the cop/criminal pairing thinking it's so edgy or something. 

Mostly I liked the side characters. The wacky newspaper brothers and Nathan's father being favorites. 

The worst thing is that I LOVED the concept of the show but OMG did it ever take a nosedive into insanity in later seasons. 

[BlueSkies]

Re-watching Sons of Anarchy.  Gemma Teller.  Totally vile person.

 

That being said I 💌Katey Segal 

[Spartan Girl]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!! AT LAAAAAAAAAAAAAST!!!!

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

Christmas came early for Spartan Girl!

[Spartan Girl]

2 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Christmas came early for Spartan Girl!

I’m just happy someone finally did it, but seriously, it’s a great video.

[Mabinogia]

It is a testament to how good Buffy the show is that I still love it and would still recommend it despite Xander. It was far from perfect, And Xander is proof of that. 

I very much agree with the guy who made the video that there is a HUGE difference between hating Joffrey who is meant to be hated, and hating any of the many female characters who are hated for... being annoying? It is also refreshing to hear someone say they don't hate a villain character for being a villain since that's the point of the character. I only hate a villain who the show considers the hero. 

Xander is so hateable to me because he is so very realistic. Unlike the over the top villainy of a Ramsey Bolton who, there may be people like Ramsey out there, but they are the exception, Xander is uncomfortably familiar to me as a female who grew up in the 80s/90s, when "boys will be boys" and it is the girls job to dress demurely so as not to entice them. Ugh, the bad old days. 

Bravo for finally calling that "nice guy" out. I would take an in your face villain (whom I could avoid as I'd know they were villainous) over the insidiousness of a Xander Harris, who preys upon the pity and guilt young girls are force fed into feeling for Nice Guys. 

[Danny Franks]

I think I've talked about my dislike for Xander several times in this thread, and in others, and I'm happy to say I agree with everything in that video.

In fact, here's what I said about him four years ago in this thread:

"I'm just watching an old episode, and Giles wants to kill Angelus because of what happened to Jenny. Xander, all self-righteous and gross says it's great and "don't forget, I've hated Angel long before you guys got on board, so I think I deserve some credit for being right." Fuck you, you creep. The only reason he hated Angel was because Angel was with Buffy, and now he's using the tragedy of Angel losing his soul, breaking Buffy's heart and killing someone they care about as an "I told you so" opportunity. Fucking Nice Guy weasel."

And:

"More absolute dickishness from him a couple of episodes later, when they find the curse and Xander says "the way I see it, you want to forget all about Ms. Calendar's murder so you can get your boyfriend back." Accidentally highlighting again his true reasons for hating Angel - "boyfriend".

That, right there, should be a friendship ender. Sadly, I'm not too surprised that Joss Whedon thinks this is an acceptable and forgiveable way to act."

Finally:

"Next episode of Xander Harris is a Colossal Dick: him being "done with all that guilt" over cheating on Cordelia, in the episode right after he was caught.

Then he gets pissy with Willow because she tells him he can't be casually touching her while she wants to make things up to Oz."

He was just the absolute worst. His level of entitlement regarding Buffy (and later Willow) was completely awful. He acted as though having the hots for her meant she owed him something, which is just Nice Guy 101.

Also, for anyone who was blissfully unaware - in the comic book adaptation that was a continuation of the show, he ends up getting together with Dawn. You know, the teen girl that he had a quasi-parental relationship to, who was fourteen when he was planning his wedding to Anya, who is the younger sister of his best friend who he used to be creepily obsessed with.

[Wiendish Fitch]

59 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

 

Also, for anyone who was blissfully unaware - in the comic book adaptation that was a continuation of the show, he ends up getting together with Dawn. You know, the teen girl that he had a quasi-parental relationship to, who was fourteen when he was planning his wedding to Anya, who is the younger sister of his best friend who he used to be creepily obsessed with.

Bolded mine.

If anyone needs me, I'll be taking a shower. 

For the rest of my natural life. 

 

[Raja]

The Good Girls, the Sons of Anarchy, the Mayans MC, the cast of Yellowstone, Claws, the Bundy family, the cast of Ozark.

Jin Jeong of nu-Magnum PI

Skip Tracer Randy of The Rookie

Rusty of Major Crimes/The Closer

Terry Silver of Cobra Kai

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Bolded mine.

If anyone needs me, I'll be taking a shower. 

For the rest of my natural life. 

 

 

Come ON, Dawn, you can do WAY BETTER than Xander. (Any woman could)

That was seriously gross, and I’m so glad I hardly ever read the comics.

[kathyk2]

Xander was a slacker who couldn't be bothered to graduate on time. I think he was jealous of Buffy's powers without realizing that the vampires were trying to kill her. He also never faced the consequences for releasing the demon in Once More with Feeling or dumping Anya.

[Spartan Girl]

43 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Xander was a slacker who couldn't be bothered to graduate on time. I think he was jealous of Buffy's powers without realizing that the vampires were trying to kill her. He also never faced the consequences for releasing the demon in Once More with Feeling or dumping Anya.

And I loved that the video spelled that out: “Xander does something shitty, never gets punished for it, and then gets to move on.” Yup, pretty much. He never learned shit. Even if he ever got called out on it, Whedon the narrative would skew the writing to make the person calling him out the asshole.

My jaw dropped at the clip of him cheerfully reminiscing about the brainwashed girls chasing after him: I don’t remembered watching that before. Ugh, I hate him more than ever.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I've brought up my revulsion at Xander's actions in "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered" a few times to other people, and someone will inevitably "challenge" me with a question like "So all characters should be perfect? Characters should never make mistakes?"

That would be a "no".

Characters absolutely should make mistakes. Characters should absolutely have flaws. But let's always keep the following questions in mind:

1. Is said shitty action motivated? If so, then by what?

2. Does the character in question suffer consequences, feel remorse, try to repent, whatever?

Plenty of characters I like have done questionable or even horrible things. The difference? They realize they've done something terrible, feel remorse, confess and repent, and are willing to endure whatever comes their way in order to make amends.

Xander's motivations for the love spell? To rob Cordelia of her autonomy, brainwash her into loving him, and then dump her just so he could assuage his wounded man pride (um, then what, asshole?).

The consequences? Xander is mobbed by hundreds of brainwashed girls (but not really physically hurt), Amy and Giles (not Xander) are the ones who undo the spell, and... Cordelia gets back with Xander and Buffy thanks him for not raping her while she was brainwashed. Willow is miffed, but gets over it by the next episode.

WTF?!?!

Think of all the things that would have gone a long way in redeeming Xander in this episode. He could have gone on an arduous quest to fetch any materials needed to break the spell. Maybe Druscilla could have shown up in a violent, jealous rage (remember, the spell affected her, too) ready to kill everyone, and Xander could have placed himself in harm's way to protect them. Xander could have-bare minimum!- begged Buffy, Cordelia, and Willow for forgiveness for the awful, awful thing he did to them and put them through.

Instead, it's treated as no worse a crime than farting in an elevator. He doesn't even regret it years after the fact.

God, I hate Joss Whedon so much.

Edited Monday at 11:53 AM by Wiendish Fitch

[AgathaC]

3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I've brought up my revulsion at Xander's actions in "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered" a few times to other people, and someone will inevitably "challenge" me with a question like "So all characters should be perfect? Characters should never make mistakes?"

That would be a "no".

Characters absolutely should make mistakes. Characters should absolutely have flaws. But let's always keep the following questions in mind:

1. Is said shitty action motivated? If so, then by what?

2. Does the character in question suffer consequences, feel remorse, try to repent, whatever?

Plenty of characters I like have done questionable or even horrible things. The difference? They realize they've done something terrible, feel remorse, confess and repent, and are willing to endure whatever comes their way in order to make amends.

Xander's motivations for the love spell? To rob Cordelia of her autonomy, brainwash her into loving him, and then dump her just so he could assuage his wounded man pride (um, then what, asshole?).

The consequences? Xander is mobbed by hundreds of brainwashed girls (but not really physically hurt), Amy and Giles (not Xander) are the ones who undo the spell, and... Cordelia gets back with Xander and Buffy thanks him for not raping her while she was brainwashed. Willow is miffed, but gets over it by the next episode.

WTF?!?!

Think of all the things that would have gone a long way in redeeming Xander in this episode. He could have gone on an arduous quest to fetch any materials needed to break the spell. Maybe Druscilla could have shown up in a violent, jealous rage (remember, the spell affected her, too) ready to kill everyone, and Xander could have placed himself in harm's way to protect them. Xander could have-bare minimum!- begged Buffy, Cordelia, and Willow for forgiveness for the awful, awful thing he did to them and put them through.

Instead, it's treated as no worse a crime than farting in an elevator. He doesn't even regret it years after the fact.

God, I hate Joss Whedon so much.

Exactly! For me, with characters, so much goes down to intention. If the character does horrible things, but either repents/pays or is meant to be a villain, fine. If I feel like the writers see the character as some kind of hero or want viewers to see them as a lovable scamp (akin to parents who think their tantrum-throwing spoiled brat is precious) — no. Just, no.

Whedon is one of the worst.

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Exactly! For me, with characters, so much goes down to intention.

This. I love to hate characters like Joffrey from GoT because he was written to be hated, the intention was not to see him as some tragic hero but an unrepentant little psychopath. One could even have some, slight sympathy for the fact that he was a child and was raised by a family of evil psychos. Also, Jack Gleeson did a phenomenal job in the role. 

I also love villains like (WARNING UO coming!!!!) Regina in OUAT because Lana Parillla was clearly having a blast playing her and her wardrobe was on pointe. Would I want to know Regina IRL, hell no, but for me she was a fun over the top villain. 

Then there is Xander. He wasn't supposed to be a villain. He wasn't even supposed to be thought of as an issue. He was meant to be a hero, a vital part of the Scooby Gang. I really believe that Joss expected girls to swoon over him and guys to want to be like him (please NO!). Sadly, I am sure some youngin's did, as they are still learning what is good/bad/what they like. But adults would want nothing to do with Xander. 

He is the poster boy for Nice Guy. That guy who hides his misogyny behind a goofy, awkward persona so he seems unthreatening. But the majority of Xander's characterization was about him wanting girls society deems "out of his league" not because he loves these girls, or even likes them, but to prove he can get a girl "out of his league". 

Sure, he could be friends with Buffy, but I always felt that underlying "if I could just get her drunk enough", vibe right below the surface. He really gave off the vibe to me that he would take advantage of a popular girl if he got the chance and would blame her for being hot and drunk around him cause he's "just a guy, and guys can't control themselves around pretty girls". 

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

I also hate Xander for the same reason I hate Ross and Rachel on Friends: I don't like people with "dog in the manger" attitudes. They all behaved like such appalling assholes when the person they liked (heavy emphasis on the past tense) was with someone else.

Yeah, it sucks to like someone who doesn't reciprocate, or see your ex who you might still hold a torch for move one with another person... 

Get over it. No, seriously, get to adulting and suck it up. You struck out, they don't want to be with you, and no one is so special that they are owed a relationship. 

And I will bet dinner and a dessert that if Xander did wind up with Buffy, he would instantly grow bored with her, because wanting is more exciting than having. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I also hate Xander for the same reason I hate Ross and Rachel on Friends: I don't like people with "dog in the manger" attitudes. They all behaved like such appalling assholes when the person they liked (heavy emphasis on the past tense) was with someone else.

Yeah, it sucks to like someone who doesn't reciprocate, or see your ex who you might still hold a torch for move one with another person... 

Get over it. No, seriously, get to adulting and suck it up. You struck out, they don't want to be with you, and no one is so special that they are owed a relationship. 

And I will bet dinner and a dessert that if Xander did wind up with Buffy, he would instantly grow bored with her, because wanting is more exciting than having. 

And there it is.

Xander was at his nastiest when Cordy and Anya refused to get back together with him—never mind the fact that he cheated on Cordy and left Anya at the altar. Hell, he was still defending what he did to Anya a year later, claiming that he “apologized enough” (he didn’t) and the break-up was really all her fault. That video was right in pointing out how fucked it up was that Anya and Cordy got punished more than Xander ever did.

And since you brought it up, I do hate both Ross and Rachel, but lately starting to hate Rachel more because that dog-in-the-manger attitude was more pronounced with her. Ross, as much as he sucks, did have some moments where he at least tried to move on with his life. But Rachel? They broke up, she sees him with another woman and wants him back, sabotages the romance, gets him back, gets pissy over something petty because she can’t let the cheating/break go and dumps him again, then proceeds to get pissy when he dates someone else, lather, rinse, repeat….

When Ross was dating his pretty coworker, she made an awful snipe about how she was probably competing with her friends to date “the biggest geek”. Ross, to his credit, doesn’t take the bait, just says she hopes she wins (good for him) but WOW. Why did they stay friends again?

Hell, I still can’t get over Phoebe the idiot asking Ross why he and Rachel weren’t together because of baby Emma? Seriously, Phoebe? I know you’re delusional, but everything you witnessed, you think a baby is going to make that  relationship better?! 

I honestly think Monica should have ended her friendship with Rachel a long time ago, not because Ross and Rachel broke up, but also because Rachel couldn’t stop being so immature over Ross. Hell, I think Monica should have dumped Rachel right after the Emily wedding debacle: that point was crystal clear that Rachel prioritized her own feelings over anything else.

Edited 19 hours ago by Spartan Girl