Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[ShawnaLanne]

23 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I don't understand the basis for dangerous and obsessive hate.

On another note, there's a difference between 'rights' and 'common sense'. 

In any case, Dennis Shields never filed for divorce during his and Beth's relationship.  Yet, apparently, both his and Beth's children had a relationship with both of them.  That's just not in their (the children's) best interest.  Did they have the 'right' to introduce their kids?  Maybe.  Was common sense used?  Nope.  IMO.

Oh yeah.  Zero common sense and clearly she was pushing buttons.  There was no other reason for him to be there. 

11 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Not at all.  Beth has always been about playing the game in the media.  It's just another PR move (Wire beat me to it).  If she was truly concerned, she would have made a concerted effort with her mother.  Not a PR move about having Bryn call her grandmother that she  decided to share .  BTW, she never followed through with - having Bryn meet her grandmother.

PR move or not for motivation,  her mom quickly put a kibosh on that with her actions.  

[ShawnaLanne]

33 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

Bethenny does not believe in "abuse."

Well,  she does,  but only the approved kind....  I'm not defending B as a human. I just happen to think Hoppy is worse. 

[WireWrap]

16 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Not at all.  Beth has always been about playing the game in the media.  It's just another PR move (Wire beat me to it).  If she was truly concerned, she would have made a concerted effort with her mother.  Not a PR move about having Bryn call her grandmother that she  decided to share .  BTW, she never followed through with - having Bryn meet her grandmother.

Like when she filmed with her ex step father, you know the guy that beat her mother all the time, and she told him she wanted Bryn to meet him! Again, it never happened! LOL Bethenny is cunning, she knows when to play on viewer heart strings, it happens right after she does something she knows she will get slammed for, every single time!

1 minute ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Well,  she does,  but only the approved kind....  I'm not defending B as a human. I just happen to think Hoppy is worse. 

Nahh, Bethenny only likes that word when she can use it for herself, as the victim, she has zero empathy for anyone else. LOL

[ShawnaLanne]

I went through an ugly break up with my husband of 18 years, but we'd been together for 22, and it takes energy to sustain that level of hate. You'd think they'd both want it over. 

1 minute ago, WireWrap said:

Like when she filmed with her ex step father, you know the guy that beat her mother all the time, and she told him she wanted Bryn to meet him! Again, it never happened! LOL Bethenny is cunning, she knows when to play on viewer heart strings, it happens right after she does something she knows she will get slammed for, every single time!

Nahh, Bethenny only likes that word when she can use it for herself, as the victim, she has zero empathy for anyone else. LOL

I heard she eats babies too.  

[film noire]

4 hours ago, Otherkate said:

Things have gotten really weird in here. 

When have they been normal?:)

[film noire]

2 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I went through an ugly break up with my husband of 18 years, but we'd been together for 22, and it takes energy to sustain that level of hate. You'd think they'd both want it over. 

Sorry you went through that. ShawnaLanne  (as for FrankenHoppy, I think they're still feeding off their respective rage,  trying to score crippling points against each other, completely unwilling to move on). 

2 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I heard she eats babies too.  

SkinnyBaby!

5 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Does PTV give prizes for fan fic?  Because I think we have a winner up above!!! 

 

Excuse me madam, that is no fan fic!! That is next level Carole Radziwill investigative reporting!  (Where is MY Peabody? ;)

Edited June 26, 2017 by film noire

[ShawnaLanne]

54 minutes ago, film noire said:

Excuse me madam, that is no fan fic!! That is next level Carole Radziwill investigative reporting!  (Where is MY Peabody? ;)

They're "working" on it.  Just like Carole is working on her next book. 

[motorcitymom65]

8 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Bethenny is not claiming any kind of custodial interference she is just claiming harassment and stalking.  I doubt they were investigating custody -just the e-mails and the statements Bethnny and Dennis claimed Jason made at the school.  It was enough for a warrant and to arrest.  As has been said many times, Bethenny is not on trial-Jason is.

Yes, I know. But others have brought up the idea that perhaps Beth had violated a custody arrangement, which might be what set Jason off when he saw her at the school. I am not making the claim that Beth did anything wrong here or is on trial, but responding to others who think that perhaps she might have violated some contract. 

[LIMOM]

6 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Well,  she does,  but only the approved kind....  I'm not defending B as a human. I just happen to think Hoppy is worse. 

I happen to agree with this. While Beth relishes provoquing the guy, it seems like he is taking it too far.

It really is War of Roses(the movie) skinny girl style and we all know how it ended.

[BBHN]

Quote

But others have brought up the idea that perhaps Beth had violated a custody arrangement

I think if she had, a "source" would have "leaked" the news ;)

[WireWrap]

7 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I went through an ugly break up with my husband of 18 years, but we'd been together for 22, and it takes energy to sustain that level of hate. You'd think they'd both want it over. 

I heard she eats babies too.  

Sorry you went through that.

With Bethenny verses Jason, so far we have heard only 1 side of it, Bethenny's. Jason has been quiet for years now, this may be the time for him to air his side and then we may have a clearer/better/more complete understanding of this ongoing battle between them. It could be that Jason is all that Bethenny claims, it could be that Bethenny is the one playing all the dirty games or it could be both of them doing it equally to each other.

She uses the babies for cute photo ops first before she eats them. LOL

[lunastartron]

8 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I went through an ugly break up with my husband of 18 years, but we'd been together for 22, and it takes energy to sustain that level of hate. You'd think they'd both want it over. 

I heard she eats babies too.  

Well, she did name her dog after a dessert.

[BBHN]

Quote

I heard she eats babies too.  

In-between crackers, natch. ;)

[Happy Camper]

10 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

That was my first thought, without the story. 

I am annoyed to be defending this woman,  because she's not likable,  but damn. 

Anyhow,  I could see him keeping it on and going out to be photographed as a blatantly manipulative mood to garner the aw isn't he a good dad vote. You know,  this man who despises being in the spotlight.  .... 

But that's just me. 

People will choose to believe what they want to believe. For example I absolutely don't  believe this blind item (from yesterday) that points toward Bethenny, I think it's bullshit. But there are people who will believe it:

http://crazydaysandnights.net/2017/06/blind-item-1-1691.html

I am wondering what will come out this week in court. I dislike Bethenny based on my observations of her behavior toward others on RHNY.

I am on the fence about Jason, and should evidence come out that he committed total ass-holey acts, then I will call him an asshole.

It still won't change my perception of Bethenny. I still won't like her.

[BBHN]

Quote

It still won't change my perception of Bethenny. I still won't like her.

This trial really isn't going to change anyone's opinion. The people who still see Bethenny as an asshole will continue to see her that way, regardless. The people who still see Jason as an asshole will continue to see him that way, regardless.

[LIMOM]

3 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Sorry you went through that.

With Bethenny verses Jason, so far we have heard only 1 side of it, Bethenny's. Jason has been quiet for years now, this may be the time for him to air his side and then we may have a clearer/better/more complete understanding of this ongoing battle between them. It could be that Jason is all that Bethenny claims, it could be that Bethenny is the one playing all the dirty games or it could be both of them doing it equally to each other.

She uses the babies for cute photo ops first before she eats them. LOL

The only thing that causes me to pause regarding Jason are all those emails. It seems excessive, if true.

OTOH, I appreciate him fighting for his daughter. So many men walk away after a divorce.

Come to think of it, that is probably what B was counting on...

Reliving her childhood drama.

[Otherkate]

11 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I heard she eats babies too.  

I heard she poops them out and makes Jason eat them! No wonder he's gone crazy!!

 

ETA: I'm sorry for that visual, but I can't live with it on my own.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Otherkate

[Lemons]

12 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, he did place Cookie in a kennel/dog "hotel". Are you referring to him placing her in the in apartment storage room with her food/water/dog bed earlier that evening? That is something we saw Bethenny do in their old apartment when they had guests that Cookie did not like, she was/is a biter. 

 

What the heck is an apartment storage room?  It's pretty clear that Bethany said that Jason put the dog in the storage unit in the apartment. Storage units are always outside the apartment, that's why they are called "units".  And it's clear that Bethany what Bethany's claim is. She's not claiming Jason put the dog in another part of the apartment. 

And dog hotels are kennels, calling them hotels is a marketing tool and does not make them upscale. There's nothing wrong with using them, they serve a purpose. I remember bringing my dog to visit one and he shook with fear the whole time. (He's a yorkie).  I don't know what he was thinking to be so terrified but we obviously never used one after that visit. 

[WireWrap]

15 minutes ago, Lemons said:

What the heck is an apartment storage room?  It's pretty clear that Bethany said that Jason put the dog in the storage unit in the apartment. Storage units are always outside the apartment, that's why they are called "units".  And it's clear that Bethany what Bethany's claim is. She's not claiming Jason put the dog in another part of the apartment. 

And dog hotels are kennels, calling them hotels is a marketing tool and does not make them upscale. There's nothing wrong with using them, they serve a purpose. I remember bringing my dog to visit one and he shook with fear the whole time. (He's a yorkie).  I don't know what he was thinking to be so terrified but we obviously never used one after that visit. 

Bethenny herself said it was "in" the apartment. Maybe it was a small room/large closet she used to store excess SKG products, so she called it a "storage room". Bethenny used a large closet (I think it was a coat closet) in the old apartment for Cookie when guests were over because Cookie would bite them. 

Yes, I agree, a kennel and a dog "hotel" are the same things, which is why I used both terms. LOL And once again, Bethenny herself has taken Cookie to them before. Dogs often shake with fear/nervousness at kennels/dog hotels and the Vets offices because of all the different smells/sounds at one time. 

[BBHN]

Quote

I heard she poops them out and makes Jason eat them! No wonder he's gone crazy!!

And he eats them with a side of Cookie, too!

[Lemons]

1 minute ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny herself said it was "in" the apartment. Maybe it was a small room/large closet she used to store excess SKG products, so she called it a "storage room". Bethenny used a large closet (I think it was a coat closet) in the old apartment for Cookie when guests were over because Cookie would bite them. 

 

I know she said "in". I wouldn't get caught up on that one word.  But a storage unit is a storage unit. It's pretty clear what she meant. Whatever happened only they know. 

[Martinigirl]

All of the storage units are OUTSIDE of the apartment.  They are NOT inside of the apartment. They may be on the same floor but they are in a separate area of the building NOT connected to the apartment. 

[film noire]

6 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 perhaps she might have violated some contract. 

Or (part of my speculation) turned up with Shields on Jason's custody day, without warning (versus violating a more formal rule in the custody agreement).

4 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I know she said "in". I wouldn't get caught up on that one word.  

Equally so not getting caught up on the word "unit", then?  -- if nothing else, I think Frankel would have milked this for more, if the dog had been placed in a bad situation (as opposed to " in the storage unit in our apartment with her dog bed and bowl".)

51 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

I heard she poops them out and makes Jason eat them! 

Okay you're right - getting weird as hell in here ; )

[smores]

I just know that I have, from time to time, said my apartment has a gym, a pool and a playground.  Obviously, none of these things are physically located IN my apartment.  While I love my apartment, and it's a spacious one, with 3 bedrooms, you couldn't fit a playground and a pool inside of it.  They're part of the complex/community that I live in, so I see them as features of my apartment.  My last one had a storage unit, actually, and I usually referred to it as in my apartment, though it was outside as well.  

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, smores said:

I just know that I have, from time to time, said my apartment has a gym, a pool and a playground.  Obviously, none of these things are physically located IN my apartment.  While I love my apartment, and it's a spacious one, with 3 bedrooms, you couldn't fit a playground and a pool inside of it.  They're part of the complex/community that I live in, so I see them as features of my apartment.  My last one had a storage unit, actually, and I usually referred to it as in my apartment, though it was outside as well.  

I eagerly await the debate on Chez smores!  ;)

I mean really, did she mean "in her apartment building"? I think so. If she's accusing Jason of being a baddy for doing exactly what she regularly did herself, that would seem to make her case a lil frivolous.

I don't think she's that deluded, but time will tell I guess.

[Celia Rubenstein]

6 minutes ago, film noire said:

Or (part of my speculation) turned up with Shields on Jason's custody day, without warning (versus violating a more formal rule in the custody agreement)

 

 To say Beth "turned up with Shield on Jason's custody day without warning" makes it sound so nefarious, lol.

Think of it like this: The day before had been Bethenny's day with Bryn.  She spent the night with Bethenny and the next morning Bethenny was dropping her off at school. This was standard operating procedure. On this particular day,  Shields happened to be with her.

That day was to be Jason's day.  You would think that meant picking Bryn up after school, but Jason instead shows up in the morning, supposedly to see Bryn for those 30 seconds it takes to walk from the car to the door of the schoolhouse.  But upon seeing Bethenny and Shields, and despite them both having sent him cease and desist letters warning him to stop harassing them, Jason approaches them and begins what they described as this verbal assault.

 I don't know if that's the real story or not but that has always been my understanding of what happened. 

[BBHN]

Quote

I eagerly await the debate on Chez smores!  ;)

We could start a whole new thread for that! ;)

[QuinnM]

Quote

I mean really, did she mean "in her apartment building"? I think so. If she's accusing Jason of being a baddy for doing exactly what she regularly did herself, that would seem to make her case a lil frivolous.

The storage unit was mentioned as an aside.  The actual testimony was about the incident when Hoppy kenneled the dog in a doggie hotel and would not tell Bethenny nor her staff where the dog was.  And that to me is the dick move.  The bit about and often the staff would come in to find the dog locked in storage room, closet etc is passive aggressive.  But moving the dog and not revealing it's whereabouts.  Yeah, that's the dick move.

[WireWrap]

33 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I know she said "in". I wouldn't get caught up on that one word.  But a storage unit is a storage unit. It's pretty clear what she meant. Whatever happened only they know. 

I agree but this is also the same women that would have milked this had he really done something bad to Cookie and she didn't, she dropped it rather quickly, which is odd for her to do. Soooo, that makes me suspect that Jason didn't do anything to Cookie to begin with, be it placing her in a kennel/dog hotel or a storage unit.

8 minutes ago, Jel said:

I eagerly await the debate on Chez smores!  ;)

I mean really, did she mean "in her apartment building"? I think so. If she's accusing Jason of being a baddy for doing exactly what she regularly did herself, that would seem to make her case a lil frivolous.

I don't think she's that deluded, but time will tell I guess.

Of course this is the same woman that placed the blame on Luann (the victim here) for Bethenny attacking her (last season), "You made me go there"! Sooo, although I agree that she isn't "deluded", I would argue that she is calculating enough to say "storage unit" when in fact it was a large closet within the apartment to garner the maximum support/sympathy/Jason hate she could get.

[Martinigirl]

7 minutes ago, BBHN said:

We could start a whole new thread for that! ;)

I heard she has a pool in her apartment. That lucky bitch!

[QuinnM]

Quote

 

I agree but this is also the same women that would have milked this had he really done something bad to Cookie and she didn't, she dropped it rather quickly, which is odd for her to do. Soooo, that makes me suspect that Jason didn't do anything to Cookie to begin with, be it placing her in a kennel/dog hotel or a storage unit.

Not sure where all she talked about this.  The only bit that I was aware came from her testimony.  Did she blog about it?

[WireWrap]

15 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Not sure where all she talked about this.  The only bit that I was aware came from her testimony.  Did she blog about it?

I believe she tweeted something about it but I honestly can't remember at this point. In all of this, her main point was that Jason didn't tell her what kennel Cookie was in, which made her panic. That was wrong of Jason, if he refused to tell her but again, I am unwilling to take her word alone about most things because she exaggerates to the point of lying so easily and often. I can see it as Jason used the same closet for Cookie that Bethenny used, then decided to place her in a kennel when he realized that Bethenny was out of town (I really doubt she informed him before she left) and that he didn't answer the phone the first couple of times she called to talk to Bryn (not to ask about Cookie) because he/Bryn were busy. I can also see him not telling her which kennel when they did talk the first time as pay back for her not telling him she was going out of town and expecting him to care for her dog no matter what his plans were. And Bethenny decided to exaggerate it in her court testimony for "primary" custody of Bryn.  IMO, this is what they do to each other, it is both of them, not just Jason but also Bethenny. Which in turn makes me sad for Bryn!

Edited June 26, 2017 by WireWrap

[Lemons]

44 minutes ago, smores said:

I just know that I have, from time to time, said my apartment has a gym, a pool and a playground.  Obviously, none of these things are physically located IN my apartment.  While I love my apartment, and it's a spacious one, with 3 bedrooms, you couldn't fit a playground and a pool inside of it.  They're part of the complex/community that I live in, so I see them as features of my apartment.  My last one had a storage unit, actually, and I usually referred to it as in my apartment, though it was outside as well.  

Maybe you have to have lived in an apartment building to understand. Even better a NYC apartment building. It's an apartment thang, you wouldn't understand. Hehe 

[smores]

So we have a few scenarios floating around, either B and Dennis went to the school on Jason's day for a recital, or they were there dropping Brynn off on Jason's day.  I have already said that it would surprise me if there wasn't some sort of provision that allows both parents to attend a recital/concert/play (I mean, you can't make the school do the show twice because Timmy's parents can't handle being in the same spot), and if that was the case (B and Dennis being there) then it's Jason's bad for acting out like a moron.  Maybe he didn't realize B was allowed to be there, maybe he thought Dennis shouldn't have been there (and, listen, probably, he shouldn't have been), maybe he woke up on the extra-ragey side of the bed that day, who knows?  But, all of those boil down to, Jason's problem and he should have addressed them as an adult, by going to his lawyer to get things clarified, just keeping his mouth shut, staying across the room, what have you.  What he did do, though, was make a scene at his daughter's school, and that doesn't help Bryn.  Who wants to be known for having the dad who throws a fit? 

The other option would be that B and Dennis were dropping her off at school.  I've known several people who had shared custody, and the custody split usually happened based on daycare or school once the kids were older.  Or, I guess I should say the handoff, that is.  Mom has them until she drops them off at school on Friday, Dad picks them up from school on Friday and has them until he drops them off at school on, say, Tuesday.  Then Mom picks them up at school.  So, that could be a totally reasonable answer for why B was at the school on Jason's "Day", as Jason would also be at the school on B's "day" at times.  It's just how it shakes out.  That said, why was Jason also there?  That's weird.  Beyond that, even if he did have a reason for being there, why pitch the fit?  We're back to the fact that he should, regardless of the situation, be able to keep his mouth shut, not start a fight, and address stuff through the lawyer (if he didn't want Dennis there, etc), and keep his distance to avoid fighting.  

It does make me wonder, though, about the story of Jason showing up on B's day with Bryn, to just escort her to the car.  Many thought it was just a dad who so loved his child, he wanted to be there.  To me, that was a provoking, controlling thing.  It wasn't his time, so he shouldn't have been around, and I do kind of wonder (if the recital story isn't the truth), if that was what he was trying to do here, and it really backfired on him this time.

I wish I lived in a NYC apartment building.  The one I am in is located about as far from NYC as you can get (well, not geographically, but, deep south, and I'm from the northeast, so, it's weird sometimes! LOL!)

[Celia Rubenstein]

47 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I agree but this is also the same women that would have milked this had he really done something bad to Cookie and she didn't, she dropped it rather quickly, which is odd for her to do. Soooo, that makes me suspect that Jason didn't do anything to Cookie to begin with, be it placing her in a kennel/dog hotel or a storage unit.

I thought nothing Bethenny ever says can be taken at face value because she is such an exaggerator. Now she's not to be believed because she didn't exaggerate things? 

 This is getting really confusing, lol

[Otherkate]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

Okay you're right - getting weird as hell in here ; )

I wasn't going to suffer with that image alone!

[smores]

This is a serious question, and I'm really not trying to poke at other posters, so please don't take it that way.  For those who feel that B is a liar for saying she was raised by wolves when she was clearly not, how do you react to Sonja?  

I ask because I have said I was raised by wolves, there are some stories that I could tell about my parents that would really make you wonder how we were allowed to grow up with them.  And yet, they were incredibly on top of school, grades, etc.  So, I had parents, they weren't wolves, they just had . . . issues.  I also say some things that B might, for example, my FIL and his wife were visiting recently.  I like both of them, but, after sightseeing with them one day, when we went to bed that night, I told my husband that I'd stab myself if I had to go out with them again the next day.  Clearly, I'm not going to stab myself, but, I can't express how painful it is to sightsee with them.  (He feels the same way)  So, I do exaggerate.  But, I see it in a different realm from saying that I was partying on my yacht with Diddy, Madonna and JFK Jr.  I mean, A) I don't have a yacht, B) I don't know any of them.  Those, to me, are outright lies, or since Sonja seems to believe them, delusions.  Not exaggerations.

[film noire]

36 minutes ago, Lemons said:

Maybe you have to have lived in an apartment building to understand. Even better a NYC apartment building. It's an apartment thang, you wouldn't understand. Hehe 

My husband and I lived in two NYC apartments (Upper West Side & Brooklyn) and we never referred to building amenities as being in "our apartment", it was always "in our building"; )

37 minutes ago, smores said:

The other option would be that B and Dennis were dropping her off at school.  I've known several people who had shared custody, and the custody split usually happened based on daycare or school once the kids were older. 

The US story might be total bullshit,  but they have the incident happening inside the school as Bethenny and Shields were on their way to see the recital.

Quote

 We're back to the fact that he should, regardless of the situation, be able to keep his mouth shut, not start a fight, and address stuff through the lawyer (if he didn't want Dennis there, etc), and keep his distance to avoid fighting.  

Yes, he absolutely should have kept his temper, but I think they're were both at fault here:  Jason after the fact (the shouting) and Frankel before the fact (bringing Shields to watch a school recital  -- at best stupid, and at worst, intended to sour his moment with his daughter.)

15 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

I wasn't going to suffer with that image alone!

LOL

[smores]

I don't disagree that bringing Shields was stupid.  The problem is, the same thing that allowed Jason to live in the apartment for so long works against him here.  Jason wasn't budging until there was a court order forcing him to vacate (whether this was the legally advisable way to go or not, this is the way it went down).  If there is nothing in their custody arrangement that says they can't bring a SO, then B didn't do anything wrong.  I, personally, wouldn't have done it, but, this wouldn't be the first time that someone will have to go back and have a no-SO clause added to a custody arrangement.  Still, Dennis being there should have been something Jason noted, then contacted his lawyer about to get the agreement amended, screaming at them at the school doesn't actually solve anything, it just makes Bryn's life difficult.  

[zoeysmom]

My issue with Bethenny, Jason and Cookie, and the dog hotel, is it really wasn't about if the dog was mistreated it was all about her not knowing until midnight where the dog was being safely housed.  This is a reoccurring theme in this couple's divorce.   It is pretty much without dispute Bethenny is a control freak-she has said it about herself.  So every time one of her unilateral decisions is challenged it is always how it effects her not the child.  Take the no meat for the child decision she wanted upheld, it had a waiver if Bryn was a party she could vary from the Bethenny's policy but not when Bryn was with her father. The weird idea that once they split Bethenny wanted decide when and how often Bryn could go to church with her father.   Another item that is rarely mentioned when Bethenny moved out she took all of Bryn's clothing, toys and stuffed animals.  I find that to be far more egregious than the dog tale as it has a definite effect on the child.  The apartment was the only home Bryn knew until that point and she returned finding her belongings gone.  I also thought taking everything out of the kitchen was a bitchy move. 

The two of them have to move past trying to control what the other parent does in their lives with few exceptions.  Even the twice daily phone calls, I am sure Bryn appreciates them but they seem to be more for the parent than the child. 

I know Bethenny places her brand and business above all else and just falls apart over Jason claiming he will destroy her.  Well he has been given four years to do it and there is just no showing of him going after her brand.  On the other hand Bethenny did try and relegate Jason to pretty much a sperm donor status.  http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-battle-over-custody-of-daughter-bryn/  His feelings are just as valid as Bethenny's and I find it far more harmful to the child to try and downgrade a parent's status with their child than any stupid attacks on her "brand". 

I have no idea if there was strife over Dennis Shields being in Bryn's life or even how much time he spent with the child.  I do think he should have at least filed for divorce before being a part of her life.    I would hold Jason to the same standard. 

[film noire]

15 minutes ago, smores said:

 If there is nothing in their custody arrangement that says they can't bring a SO, then B didn't do anything wrong.  

 

My take overall; she didn't do anything illegal, but I think she did something wrong.

And if Jason is found not guilty of stalking her at school, he still did something wrong, even if it wasn't illegal.

[smores]

But, and I'm not trying to totally take B's side, don't some of those fall under decisions that were already made when they were together?  After Bryn was born, they had agreed together that she stick with a no meat diet (I remember this being mentioned on the show- not sure if it was for so many years, or if it was ideally for life).  Jason was onboard with it then, so why would he reverse course with it later?  If you had a couple who had lived a vegetarian lifestyle for 10 years before having kids, and then raised a kid as a vegetarian for 5 years, I think the mom would justifiably be upset if the dad started suddenly giving them meat.  Obviously this is a shorter timeframe, but healthy food is a big deal to B and Jason seemed to have no arguments with it when they were a couple.  

As for church, this was a big thing too.  B is Jewish, Jason is Catholic.  They had an agreement about this.  Just because they aren't married doesn't mean he gets to change up and start raising her as a full on Catholic during his time.  

Now, as for taking all of the stuff out of the apartment? Yeah, not great.  When my parents divorced, my father did that.  Took all the pots and pans (along with other stuff).  Then moved back into his parent's house.  They had plenty of pots and pans, so the point was? I guess just to be a dick.  

[WireWrap]

53 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I thought nothing Bethenny ever says can be taken at face value because she is such an exaggerator. Now she's not to be believed because she didn't exaggerate things? 

 This is getting really confusing, lol

Yes and No! LOL IMO, had Jason done something nefarious with/too Cookie, Bethenny would have done a press tour outing him on this. IMO, once she did her dance in court, she was satisfied that she did enough damage to his reputation, especially with her Cookie story. I also suspect that Bethenny knew if she kept it up in the press, Jason would have told his side, something she does not want him to do. So, she dropped it.

30 minutes ago, smores said:

This is a serious question, and I'm really not trying to poke at other posters, so please don't take it that way.  For those who feel that B is a liar for saying she was raised by wolves when she was clearly not, how do you react to Sonja?  

I ask because I have said I was raised by wolves, there are some stories that I could tell about my parents that would really make you wonder how we were allowed to grow up with them.  And yet, they were incredibly on top of school, grades, etc.  So, I had parents, they weren't wolves, they just had . . . issues.  I also say some things that B might, for example, my FIL and his wife were visiting recently.  I like both of them, but, after sightseeing with them one day, when we went to bed that night, I told my husband that I'd stab myself if I had to go out with them again the next day.  Clearly, I'm not going to stab myself, but, I can't express how painful it is to sightsee with them.  (He feels the same way)  So, I do exaggerate.  But, I see it in a different realm from saying that I was partying on my yacht with Diddy, Madonna and JFK Jr.  I mean, A) I don't have a yacht, B) I don't know any of them.  Those, to me, are outright lies, or since Sonja seems to believe them, delusions.  Not exaggerations.

For me, Sonja is a grafter and a liar but other than trying to scam the film studio out of the money she owed them, her lies are not designed to hurt/degrade others, Bethenny's are. 

13 minutes ago, smores said:

I don't disagree that bringing Shields was stupid.  The problem is, the same thing that allowed Jason to live in the apartment for so long works against him here.  Jason wasn't budging until there was a court order forcing him to vacate (whether this was the legally advisable way to go or not, this is the way it went down).  If there is nothing in their custody arrangement that says they can't bring a SO, then B didn't do anything wrong.  I, personally, wouldn't have done it, but, this wouldn't be the first time that someone will have to go back and have a no-SO clause added to a custody arrangement.  Still, Dennis being there should have been something Jason noted, then contacted his lawyer about to get the agreement amended, screaming at them at the school doesn't actually solve anything, it just makes Bryn's life difficult.  

I would bet my last dollar that Jason was told not to leave the apartment by his Lawyers, this is common in divorce. I doubt that Bethenny was advised to bring her still married bf, Shields, to her daughters school event where her ex husband was going to be, so they are very different scenarios IMO. Oh, and this is the ex that her current bf had sent a C&D letter too. So, she brought Shields knowing there was already tension between the 2 men, not a good idea on Bethenny's end. That said, if Jason got nasty out of the blue, then shame on him as well.

[Celia Rubenstein]

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The US story might be total bullshit,  but they have the incident happening inside the school as Bethenny and Shields were on their way to see the recital.

Does it really matter if it was a school drop off or a dance recital?  The fact is that regardless of why they were all at the school, Jason (allegedly!) got upset and approached two people who had both sent him cease and desist letters and said things that are arguably threatening.

The idea that is being floated around about Jason's behavior being more understandable if a dance recital was taking place doesn't hold water for me and I doubt it will make any difference legally.  The issue isn't whether his behavior was understandable or to some extent justified. The issue is whether he should have known his behavior would cause Bethenny to feel fear.  You can't defend yourself from harassment charges by saying "yeah, but I had a good reason to be pissed off."

[smores]

I already said I thought it was stupid as all hell to bring Dennis.  I would think it was stupid if it was anyone else she was dating, to be honest.  Taking them to the school would be something  you'd do only after being together for a few years and if not engaged, damn near it.  At least, that's what I'd do if I were divorced and had kids.  But, the C&D doesn't really play into, I don't think.  I mean, you could send a neighbor a C&D, or you could send one to a friend who then shows up at a mutual friend's birthday party or something.  If I had done that, and they showed up, I'd do what I do with my sibling I dislike, stay busy on the opposite side of the room, pretending they aren't there, and only say a polite hello if I had to.  Civil, surface interaction, and get the hell away as soon as possible.  Jason flipping out is on Jason, though, regardless of B bringing Dennis, regardless of the C&D.  Was it a good idea for him to be there? Again, no.  But, Jason was the one who made the decision to not ignore him and address his presence at future events, and worse, he made a scene at Bryn's school.

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, smores said:

But, and I'm not trying to totally take B's side, don't some of those fall under decisions that were already made when they were together?  After Bryn was born, they had agreed together that she stick with a no meat diet (I remember this being mentioned on the show- not sure if it was for so many years, or if it was ideally for life).  Jason was onboard with it then, so why would he reverse course with it later?  If you had a couple who had lived a vegetarian lifestyle for 10 years before having kids, and then raised a kid as a vegetarian for 5 years, I think the mom would justifiably be upset if the dad started suddenly giving them meat.  Obviously this is a shorter timeframe, but healthy food is a big deal to B and Jason seemed to have no arguments with it when they were a couple.  

As for church, this was a big thing too.  B is Jewish, Jason is Catholic.  They had an agreement about this.  Just because they aren't married doesn't mean he gets to change up and start raising her as a full on Catholic during his time.  

Now, as for taking all of the stuff out of the apartment? Yeah, not great.  When my parents divorced, my father did that.  Took all the pots and pans (along with other stuff).  Then moved back into his parent's house.  They had plenty of pots and pans, so the point was? I guess just to be a dick.  

They, Bethenny/Jason were not vegetarians, they both ate meat. Bethenny made that decision for Bryn after they separated and she said she did so because Bryn said she didn't want to eat meat (Bryn was about 2 - 2 1/2 years old at the time).

Although Bethenny was born Jewish, she didn't practice/follow/live a Jewish life, Bethenny is agnostic herself.

I don't think it is that Bethenny took all the post/pans/dishes, it is that she took ALL of Bryn's belongings, all of them! It was more important to Bethenny to punish Jason, more so than any hurt she caused her/their daughter.

[film noire]

1 minute ago, smores said:

I already said I thought it was stupid as all hell to bring Dennis.  

Oh, I know - sorry, I wasn't ignoring that, I was just giving you my "boiled down" take on how I see the morality vs legality issues (regardless of stalking being proven or not, custody rules, etc). 

[smores]

I know they weren't vegetarian (though, I do believe that B tries to eat a more plant based diet).  I do remember, though, when Bryn started eating, B was making all of her food, and she was keeping it plant based.  I know this is US Magazine, but here's an old article talking about it:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms/news/bethenny-frankels-daughter-bryn-15-months-is-a-vegetarian-201129

Just because B is agnostic doesn't mean she automatically loses any say in religion for her daughter.  I was raised without any sort of religion, my husband was raised Catholic.  Again, we have no kids, but, we have had extensive talks about what we would do should we have kids.  He feels it's important that kids be exposed to religion.  I don't really have an opinion, but am not opposed, provided he exposes the child to other religions and would allow the child to choose to stop going if they wanted to.  So, I don't think Jason automatically gets to raise her as a Catholic just because he was.  Her mother has a different belief set, and she should be exposed to both.

I get that B took more than just the pots and pans.  I was just saying that my father did that and it was a dick move.  So, I agree, it's a dick move regardless of who does it. 

[ZoloftBlob]

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I would bet my last dollar that Jason was told not to leave the apartment by his Lawyers, this is common in divorce. I doubt that Bethenny was advised to bring her still married bf, Shields, to her daughters school event where her ex husband was going to be, so they are very different scenarios IMO. Oh, and this is the ex that her current bf had sent a C&D letter too. So, she brought Shields knowing there was already tension between the 2 men, not a good idea on Bethenny's end. That said, if Jason got nasty out of the blue, then shame on him as well.

How is it less of an ass move that Jason followed his lawyer's instructions? I mean, he's a grown man who made the decision to follow his lawyer's instructions even though he knew he was dragging the whole thing out. Someone told him to do it so....? That defense didn't work at Nuremburg, you know. ;)

Bethenny could have made a better decision but I know plenty of divorced people who get tired of dancing around their ex's feelings and start taking the position that it's not in the terms of the divorce so I'm going to do what I want. (Watch Little People Big World for some amusing examples of how divorcing ones wife makes one's exwife much less likely to play nice)

Considering that Jason signed a pre-nup, that this has dragged out for four years really does land squarely on Jason.

[BBHN]

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My issue with Bethenny, Jason and Cookie, and the dog hotel, is it really wasn't about if the dog was mistreated it was all about her not knowing until midnight where the dog was being safely housed.  This is a reoccurring theme in this couple's divorce.   It is pretty much without dispute Bethenny is a control freak-she has said it about herself.  So every time one of her unilateral decisions is challenged it is always how it effects her not the child.  Take the no meat for the child decision she wanted upheld, it had a waiver if Bryn was a party she could vary from the Bethenny's policy but not when Bryn was with her father. The weird idea that once they split Bethenny wanted decide when and how often Bryn could go to church with her father.   Another item that is rarely mentioned when Bethenny moved out she took all of Bryn's clothing, toys and stuffed animals.  I find that to be far more egregious than the dog tale as it has a definite effect on the child.  The apartment was the only home Bryn knew until that point and she returned finding her belongings gone.  I also thought taking everything out of the kitchen was a bitchy move. 

Not sure what Bethenny being a control freak or any of the other stuff you listed has to do with Jason being a dick regarding Cookie.

Also, Bethenny cleaning out Brynn's stuff wasn't rarely mentioned, it was discussed and debated and then discussed and debated some more, with some people thinking it was a horrible thing to do and others thinking it wasn't a horrible deed that would scar Brynn for the rest of her life.

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I know Bethenny places her brand and business above all else and just falls apart over Jason claiming he will destroy her.  Well he has been given four years to do it and there is just no showing of him going after her brand

Just because he hasn't succeeded, that doesn't excuse him making those threats continuously. His incompetence in that regard shouldn't dismiss how she feels about what he says.

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And if Jason is found not guilty of stalking her at school, he still did something wrong, even if it wasn't illegal.

No, it is still illegal, it just means he was acquitted. An acquittal doesn't always equate with not being guilty of something. Very different since Bethenny bring Dennis along wasn't something she or he could have been charged with.

Quote

The storage unit was mentioned as an aside.  The actual testimony was about the incident when Hoppy kenneled the dog in a doggie hotel and would not tell Bethenny nor her staff where the dog was.  And that to me is the dick move.  The bit about and often the staff would come in to find the dog locked in storage room, closet etc is passive aggressive.  But moving the dog and not revealing it's whereabouts.  Yeah, that's the dick move.

Edited June 26, 2017 by BBHN