Mad Men - General Discussion

[cooksdelight]

I couldn't stand Megan, especially in season 5, but I had to side with her here. Sure, it was a great opportunity, but what was good for Peggy didn't have to be good for her. Advertising didnt make Megan happy, and she shouldn't be faulted for that. I thought that s/l was to show how close minded Peggy could be. Advertising was her everything, so she automatically assumed it should be that for everyone else.

I totally see your point of view. :)

I am coming from a place where I was Peggy. I clawed and fought for the same things that came to the guys in the agency so easily. I remember working with a woman who was a former model who decided she wanted to be an account executive. She leapfrogged over other women (and a few men) and once she won an award, she left to work with her boyfriend. It's as Joan said about Betty being a model when she met Don, and Megan going from secretary to wife to copy/creative.

[cooksdelight]

Jane looks really haggard and old in "Dark Shadows." Not the same upbeat girl she used to be. I guess life with Roger will do that to you.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I had forgotten the whole thing about Jane and Roger sleeping together in her apartment.

 

In rewatching parts of Season 5, I am reminded again that I have no problem with either Jessica Pare's acting or the character of Megan. But I am also reminded that to me the biggest problem with the Don and Megan relationship is that I never bought their relationship because I just didn't feel any chemistry between either the actors or the characters.  I don't place the blame on Pare for that, though, sometimes chemistry just doesn't happen, even with Jon Hamm.  I suspect that if they did have more chemistry, people's views about Megan may be less negative.

[SlovakPrincess]

As much as Harry is a crappy person, there are times when I really appreciate him.   Like the Hare Krishna episode where he helps Paul at the end.  

 

And in the first or second season, there's an episode where his wife has kicked him out of the house (for cheating), and he's sleeping at the office and Don catches him walking around the office late at night in his undershirt and underpants.  And then Don wants to talk about work, and Harry just has to sit there awkwardly in Don's office, in his underwear.  Hee! 

[cooksdelight]

Well, I've boo-hooed through Peggy's resignation, now to get through "Commissions and Fees."

[cooksdelight]

Oh man, the orange again. The sofa the guys stand on to see Lane in the other office is bright orange.

[helloagain]

Sally getting her period and Betty telling her that maybe she'll have a beautiful little girl one day...Betty will never get to see that. I cried.

[cooksdelight]

I bawled my eyes out during that episode. Lane's desperation to Don, Don telling him to come up with a gracious way to resign. And he hangs himself, with Don looking like it's all his fault. Then letting Glen drive his car. Too many heavy moments in that episode.

[moonb]

Jane looks really haggard and old in "Dark Shadows." Not the same upbeat girl she used to be. I guess life with Roger will do that to you.

 

Like Megan, who looked haggard and overdone by "New Business."  And she was a fresh-faced young secretary at the start, too. Those boys are hell on wives. Whereas Mona and Betty seemed to get tougher after divorce, and Mona sure aged backwards for a while there. Fate certainly dealt the kindest hand to her, and she knew Roger for what he was. 

 

Season 6. Ooh boy. Although, I do enjoy Dawn's limited storyline this season.

[cooksdelight]

Megan had a tan during those winter episodes, now she's in Hawaii worrying about getting a tan. Someone in wardrobe or makeup did a crappy job of keeping her skin pale during the appropriate times.

[Umbelina]

UGH!

 

The Doorway.

 

The beginning of my (by FAR) most disliked story.  Sylvia.  blech

Him helping her husband get his skis on and then ending up in bed with her is the one time I honestly thought Don was unforgivable.  Matt was unforgivable for giving us such a boring assed storyline.

[txhorns79]

I bawled my eyes out during that episode. Lane's desperation to Don, Don telling him to come up with a gracious way to resign. And he hangs himself, with Don looking like it's all his fault.

 

Oh I hated that.  Don was ridiculously generous with Lane, given what Lane had done.  He said he would take care of Lane's debt, let him resign and didn't tell anyone what had happened.  I felt like lot of Don's guilt over Lane was the residual from Adam's death.  That was a situation that I totally blamed Don for causing. (And yes, I know that Adam obviously had issues going on that had nothing to do with Don, and realistically, it wasn't Don's fault.)  I can't even imagine what it would be like to think your brother was dead, have him come back into your life years later and then reject you in such a cruel way.  It makes me upset thinking about it now.   

[cooksdelight]

Who the heck is the actor playing Timmy the Heinz ketchup guy and why do I recognize him, as a sleazy guy from some other show?

[txhorns79]

Who the heck is the actor playing Timmy the Heinz ketchup guy and why do I recognize him, as a sleazy guy from some other show?

 

The actor is Kip Pardue.  According to IMDB, he's been acting steadily since the late 90s, so I'm not sure which show you are referring. 

[cooksdelight]

I think it may be a small part in something, I'll remember it at some point. Thanks for the link. :)

[CajunGirl]

The actor is Kip Pardue.  According to IMDB, he's been acting steadily since the late 90s, so I'm not sure which show you are referring.

I think he played "Sunshine" in the movie "Remember the Titans." (With Denzel Washington at his sexiest best!)

[jennybfry]

He was also in an episode of House and I think ER too.

[GreekGeek]

Seeing Michael Ginsburg again, healthy and whole, hurts my heart a little.   Poor guy.  I hope he gets out of the psychiatric hospital eventually.   

 

 

I caught a bit of "The Flood" where he goes on the blind date with Beverly. Too bad that never went anywhere; she might have been a stabilizing influence.

[fitzfrog]

I liked Abe early on in his relationship with Peggy.  After he turned into Frank Zappa, not so much.  Always fondly remember them dancing (hey, they were doing the twist, albeit ironically) at Don's birthday party.

[jennybfry]

I loathe "Man with a Plan." It is by far my least favorite episode.

[Umbelina]

The stoned episode, AND "Are we Negroes?"  is up!

[CarpeDiem54]

It's so great watching this marathon. It's like visiting old friends. I need one of those "vitamin" shots! Having to sleep is pissing me off.

Damn, I'm gonna miss this show...

I finally figured out what bugged me the most about Megan's teeth. It wasn't so much that she had an overbite, it's their color! They morph from beige to coral colored depending upon which lipstick she's wearing.

[Dejana]

Oh, wow, when Duck is acting headhunter for Pete in "The Better Half", he mentions a head of marketing position in Wichita that would be perfect for him. Pete asks if there's anything back on Earth. How times change!

[cooksdelight]

I know, what's up with Wichita? I don't remember it being the hotspot of advertising. Ever.

[cooksdelight]

I think he played "Sunshine" in the movie "Remember the Titans." (With Denzel Washington at his sexiest best!)

That's where I remember the guy from, thanks.

Cat woke me up in time to see Pete fall on the stairs, one of my favorite scenes. And Bob Bensen. I cannot help but love this character, and his sidekick Manolo.

[TC3200]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7KfyguQiZtE"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tallies how many cigarettes, drinks, women. . I did expect a higher number for how many women Don bedded, though.

I know, what's up with Wichita? I don't remember it being the hotspot of advertising. Ever.

Headquarters for Learjet.

[GreekGeek]

I liked Abe early on in his relationship with Peggy.  After he turned into Frank Zappa, not so much.  Always fondly remember them dancing (hey, they were doing the twist, albeit ironically) at Don's birthday party.

I never liked Abe much. I re-watched "Chinese Wall" on Friday and wanted to smack him for his "Let me educate you" lecturing of Peggy. And then showing up at SCDP with that "Nuremberg on Madison Avenue" article--how on earth did he think that was going to improve their relationship?

 

Oh, wow, when Duck is acting headhunter for Pete in "The Better Half", he mentions a head of marketing position in Wichita that would be perfect for him. Pete asks if there's anything back on Earth. How times change!

 

I'd forgotten that line. How times change, indeed!

[Cramps]

After rewatching tons of the marathon, the only storyline, I had no interest in seeing again was the Sylvia/Linda Cardellini one. (Aside from it's overlap with Sally). I hadn't realized how much I disliked it.

[JudyObscure]

Lane couldn't bring himself to tell his wife he had been fired. He would, literally, rather die.

Don couldn't tell Megan he had been laid off.

I want to shake them and tell them to spit it out, but I've been verbally paralyzed like that myself. So frustrating to watch, though.

[ridethemaverick]

I feel like an idiot because I'm catching things I never saw before on this rewatch. I'm wondering if I just skipped whole scenes during my original watch.

Example: When Burt told Roger "you sold your birthright to marry that trollop," I just realized he's referring to the original sale of SC and how Roger's potential alimony payments to Mona made him open to the idea where he may not have been otherwise.

I also agree with previous posters...Betty was so devoted to Don. And I'm better able to see how much her character evolved over the seasons.

I also see that Megan was a focal point very early on in season 4. When Joan have her instructions, she always used Megan's name which didn't happen with the other secretaries.

[ridethemaverick]

You know who JP reminds me of, acting wise? Tiffany Theissen, better known as Kelly Kapowski. She had this tic where at the end of almost every line, she would exhale loudly. JP does it too and it annoys the hell out of me.

[chlban]

After re-watching some of the season 1 episodes during the AMC marathon showings; I was struck by how much of a decline this show has taken. Season 1 -3 were phenomenal; I almost forgot that fact.[/quote There will be much disagreement but ITA. There were great moments after she season 3 and entire great episodes but I will always believe the first 3 seasons were the best.

Edited May 17, 2015 by chlban

[chlban]

I do love going back and seeing the S1 Don & Betty interactions after seeing the rest of the show. So young, so in love. What a big difference 10+ years make.

Which is so realistic. She adored him but so many disappointments. From not bringing back th birthday cake to the constant cheating. It all adds up and just chips away at a marriage.

Edited May 17, 2015 by chlban

[JudyObscure]

I simply can not watch Betty's scene with Bobbie on the farm field trip. I love Betty, but her parenting could be so mistaken sometimes, particularly with Bobbie. Some women just don't really like the male of the species very much and think of them as the enemy, constantly on trial. I think Betty expected total devotion from the "men," in her life and rarely thought about how they can be vulnerable, insecure and in need of reassurance, just like women. It's hard to believe she thought Bobbie gave her sandwich away because he didn't love her but there it is.

Henry just asked Bobbie what happened and Bobbie says, "I wish it was yesterday." Oh man, is he going to want do overs all his life with her forever, now.

[cooksdelight]

I didn't remember Peggy being so shitty to Don when he came back, but there it was.

[chlban]

It may not be a fact but boy did Megan bring it down a notch. MMV, of course.

Betty did smoke like a chimney. I wonder if pressure to be thin and anxiety had a role to play. As well as being a stay at home mom.

This is a little late but were people seriously unable to stop crying (per Betty) when Kennedy was assassinated? My parents told me, meh, we were at school when everyone found out.

The only comparison I can think of for my generation is 9/11 but that involved thousands of people being killed. I'm just curious.

Megan damaged the show irrevocably, IMO.

 

As for the Kennedy assassination, I thought MM depicted it perfectly. My mother cried for the entire weekend as did most of the neighborhood mothers. Even those that had not voted for, or politically supported JFK. Trudy summed it  up perfectly when she said "this is America, I don't care what your politics are, you just don't shoot the President". 

 

I always say it was our generations 9/11. Those same feelings of grief, anger and fear and yes, for people we didn't really know. Add to that the beautiful. poignant funeral, which Jackie deliberately planned to capture many parts of Lincolns funeral, the beautiful young widow and the two adorable tiny children.........it was very moving.

 

In fact, I confess that to this day, the sight of tiny JFK Jr. saluting his fathers coffin can still bring me to tears.

[chlban]

That was so well done.

 

Pete's line was one of many that really stood out to me as capturing the feel of that time.  Not a direct quote but "Just when things were finally looking better, more hopeful."

 

It was so shocking, and very few people believed Oswald did it, in spite of the constant press about his trip to Russia, etc.  It played endlessly on television for days, on all channels.  My mother was convinced Jack Ruby was hired by USA/Cuba/FBI people.  It was well known how much J Edgar Hoover detested the Kennedys.   As for me, I remember specifically this young kid saying that they weren't letting him speak to a lawyer, and that he was a "patsy." 

 

I was just a bit older than Sally, and I was at school.  Teachers were crying, and we were all sent home.  I didn't really know what was going on, they didn't tell us.  On the way home I ran  into two neighbor friends of mine that went to Catholic School (also dismissed) and they were crying, told me all the nuns were crying, and they were going home to pray.

 

Once I got home, my mom, kind of a wiser Betty type (very beautiful but not as immature) had a cigarette and the TV on, told us what happened.

 

I was watching when Oswald was killed.  Betty's "WHAT IS HAPPENING?" felt so real to me.  It was just another extremely shock, on top of shocks.

 

My mother, who didn't like Jackie (oddly she knew Marilyn personally from her early days in Hollywood and resented her treatment by the Kennedy's, always felt they had her killed, so she didn't like them) commented on odd things.  She specifically said Jackie was wearing his blood all over her clothing on purpose (which she was, "let them see what they've done.")  She also said things about the pageantry of the funeral that weren't very flattering, but in the end, when John John saluted, although she again implied "that Jackie planned that to tug at heartstrings" she also wiped away a tear.

 

Oddly enough, later in life my mother loved Jackie Onassis, she, unlike many, really applauded her marrying the old rich guy and getting her kids out of the USA and away from the circus.  She loved her becoming a book editor too.  So early dislike turned into admiration, even though she was never a Kennedy fan.  Mom was always slightly out of step with the prevailing opinions.  When others thought Jackie a saint, my mom really couldn't stand her.  When others were appalled at Jackie dishonoring Jack and the USA by marrying rich and splitting to Greece, my mom applauded her.

Jackie had held her husbands brain matter in her hand and handed it to a doctor at Parkland. Five years later she watched the man that had tried to step up as surrogate father for her children, Bobby, gunned down in a hotel kitchen. Four months after that she married a man that had been pursuing her for years who was rich enough to protect  her children, provide them a safe haven away from the US, although she never gave up her New York Apartment has home base, nor her children's heritage.  

 

She raised those children, arguably the most famous in the world at the time to be, by all reports, polite and well balanced adults. If the worst thing you can say about a "celebrity" kid is that they failed the BAR Exam twice before passing, I say you have done a damn good job.

 

Sorry, off my soapbox now.

[JudyObscure]

Roger and Mona confront their daughter at the hippy commune and tell her that her little boy misses her. She replies, "He can't be happy unless I'm happy." Oh my gosh. We heard that so much back then, not just from hippies, it was in "Good Housekeeping," articles and all the latest novels about women leaving home to "find themselves." I heard it so much I came to believe it. Big mistake.

[cooksdelight]

Aren't we in 1970 now...is hippie Marigold forgetting we've been to the moon already?

[chlban]

Yes, the doubt of the real story behind Kennedy's assassination began immediately, even while people were grieving.  When Ruby shot Oswald, it increased even more.  Mad Men did touch on it a bit, but not much, Pete saying someone at the office said "the man made a lot of enemies" and I think one other comment in the episode, but mostly, they left it alone, and I think that was a good choice.

 

However, the way I remember it, as a precocious 10 year old, and probably more aware than the majority of kids?  None of the adults believed it, and "bullshit" or "they were always going to kill him" comments abounded, even during the grief.  Many thought mob, MANY thought Hoover, almost all seemed to think it internal rather than foreign, and that was during the Communist Menace days!  For me, I just remember him wanting a lawyer, and saying he was a patsy, and "of course I've been in there, I WORK there."  It hit me very strongly, and I remember asking "Why can't he have a lawyer?"  The scope of the possibilities didn't occur to me, just that this skinny little guy didn't seem capable of pulling this off.  After he was murdered, which, as I said, I watched live, and then several more times in replays, my mother's only comment was "Well, they sure shut him up fast."

I was 8 years old when JFK was killed. I watched Ruby shoot Oswald. My Uncle was an active duty Marine and his unit, as well as many others were on high alert because no one really knew what was happening. Subsequently, I think I read almost every book published about possible conspiracies for about the next 30 years. 

 

There is another episode of MM, can't remember which one it's in, but it shows a brief clip of Johnnie Carson announcing that, after a 15 minute new report on Vietnam, his guest would be New Orleans DA Jim Garrison. That, of course, is the character Kevin Costner played in JFK . Prior to the movies release I had won a long game of trivial pursuit by answering "who was the only person ever tried for the assassination of JFK?"  All those conspiracy books had served me well.  

[CarpeDiem54]

If I never hear Paul Anka again, it will be too soon. That promo was nice the first dozen times, the last 4,286 times, not so much.

I just cringed watching the handyman install that dropped acoustical tile ceiling in Peggy's livingroom.

[wingster55]

Don. Peggy. Pete. Family

 

That ep really could have been a series finale.

[cooksdelight]

I finally answered my own question about whether or not we've landed on the moon. It's hard to keep up with the timeline on these shows.

If I never hear Paul Anka again, it will be too soon. That promo was nice the first dozen times, the last 4,286 times, not so much.

Thank you!!! It was driving me crazy who was singing that song, as the voice sounded vaguely familiar from all the old Dean Martin and Ed Sullivan variety shows my parents watched.

[CarpeDiem54]

Thank you!!! It was driving me crazy who was singing that song, as the voice sounded vaguely familiar from all the old Dean Martin and Ed Sullivan variety shows my parents watched.

I never particularly liked his voice. He always sounded smarmy, to me.

Off to watch the moon landing!

[RedHawk]

Haha, Peggy buys only 2 beers -- one for her and one for Don -- from the motel's night clerk. And when Harry remarks on her doing that, she still doesn't get glasses to share with him and Pete!

Edited May 17, 2015 by RedHawk

[Sweets McGee]

The two beers/moon landing scene might be my favorite thing on the show.

[RedHawk]

OMG, Betty's college friend's younger son just told Sally, who came outside (where he's at the telescope) and lit up, "Smoking causes cancer."

I never noticed before the (I'm sure intentional) coincidence of the boy being named Neil.

[RedHawk]

So, IS Alice Cooper still alive?

Of course I mean "was" and Bert Cooper's sister, not the rock star.

Edited May 17, 2015 by RedHawk

[wingster55]

Haha, Peggy buys only 2 beers -- one for her and one for Don -- from the motel's night clerk. And when Harry remarks on her doing that, she still doesn't get glasses to share with him and Pete!

 

Hated that. I had an issue where they seemed to regress Pete's relationship with Peggy (or rather his opinion of her) just so Don could be her white knight.

And the exclusion of him and Harry..meh. 

 

Peggy - mentions a 10 year old boy at her apartment.

Pete - quickly does the math in his head

Edited May 17, 2015 by wingster55

[RedHawk]

Peggy - mentions a 10 year old boy at her apartment.

Pete - quickly does the math in his head

I just caught the way he looks at her when she mentions a "10-year-old boy waiting at home."