S14.E04: Mint Condition

[Myrelle]

On 11/2/2018 at 7:35 AM, Bergamot said:

To tell the truth, I just assumed that this was Dean's idea of what an insurance agent would look like, and I loved it! Dean has lived such a completely strange, unnatural, un-normal life since the age of four that he actually doesn't have any idea what it is like to be a normal, ordinary person, and when he tries to play the role of a normal person, he always gets it somehow weirdly off-kilter. It is very endearing. Remember him mowing the lawn in "What Is and What Should Never Be"?

Don't ask me how he does it, but this is so true. All of it, but the bolded part especially.

My tumblr has been flooded with pictures of Dean the Adorkable Insurance Agent since this episode aired; and of Dean lounging around, watching horror movies(wearing those SOCKS!) in his room just to get away from it all for a while. Apparently many people on tumblr often do this, too. Imagine that. ;-) ;-D

Edited November 3, 2018 by Myrelle

[Myrelle]

On 11/2/2018 at 7:35 AM, Bergamot said:

(I especially liked the glasses he wore -- LOVE Dean in glasses! And it's not just me. Remember that one time when he was wearing them to hunt a hellhound, and Crowley complimented him and said how they really brought out his eyes? Hee!)

Yeah, not gonna lie, I'm with you and Crowley on this. ;-) 

I've always had a thing for Dean in glasses, too. But it might actually be more of a thing for JA in glasses because I loved when Alec from Dark Angel played-acted at being a piano teacher who wore glasses, too. 

[juppschmitz]

12 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I loved when Alec from Dark Angel played-acted at being a piano teacher who wore glasses, too. 

This. And also Dean lying on his belly watching TV reminded me so much of that episode when Manticore was destroyed and all the Transgenics got out and Alec was lying on his belly, enraptured by the telly...

[Bergamot]

On 11/2/2018 at 10:10 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

On 11/2/2018 at 9:49 AM, Bergamot said:

Maybe Sam could ask her out.

I thought you said you liked her? LOL!

(RIP Madison, Sara, Eileen, etc, etc)

LOL, gonzosgirrl, maybe you're right! Might not be a good idea!

I liked Dirk too, and I liked watching Dean bonding with him. Especially that scene in the hospital where they are comparing their favorites in the slasher movie series and quoting in unison from the movie trailer. Dean looks kind of shy and unsure at first, and keeps darting glances around as if he is expecting the Fun Police to show up and stop the conversation. But he gradually relaxes as they talk, and in the next scene where they are talking about the movies you can see that he is having such a good time! :-)

I know that Sam was just teasing Dean about having so much in common with Dirk -- implying that they were both weirdos, I guess -- but actually I don't think it's an insult to be compared with Dirk. He seemed to be easy to get along with, comfortable with who he was and what he enjoyed. He bravely threw himself into the line of fire on behalf of both Stuart's mother and Dean. And he was loyal to his friend Stuart.

 

23 hours ago, bethy said:

This guy reminded me of Ronald 

I can see why you would compare Dirk with Ronald Reznick, in the sense that they were both oddball characters that Dean befriended. But I think that Ronald was a darker character, with a more complex story. Was he crazy to do what he did, or was he admirable to at least try to do something? Was he really like the Winchesters? (People think they're crazy, too!) Should they have told him the truth or kept him in the dark? Was his death inevitable? Ronald was ultimately a tragic figure, and  when he was killed, his death was meaningful -- to Dean, especially. Dirk was just a nice geeky guy -- nothing wrong with that, but that's all there was to his story.

(Now I want to go back and watch "Nightshifter" in addition to re-watching "Hollywood Babylon"! This episode really makes me miss Ben Edlund!)

[ahrtee]

8 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

This. And also Dean lying on his belly watching TV reminded me so much of that episode when Manticore was destroyed and all the Transgenics got out and Alec was lying on his belly, enraptured by the telly...

Taken to Dean Winchester thread (so I won't go OT).

[catrox14]

I kept looking at the actor who played Stuart and thought he was in another ep of Supernatural.  Sure enough he was the teen in Mother's Little Helper who had stabbed the waitress in the hand because he didn't have his soul.

[Bergamot]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I kept looking at the actor who played Stuart and thought he was in another ep of Supernatural.  Sure enough he was the teen in Mother's Little Helper who had stabbed the waitress in the hand because he didn't have his soul.

Thank you, catrox! I kept trying to remember where I had seen that actor before. He has a very intense, kind of scary, air about him onscreen.

I did think while watching the episode that maybe they were going to do more than they did with the character of Stuart. The writer seemed to be taking care to develop him at the beginning into a distinct character with serious problems, but there was never any resolution to his story, just a quick comment at the end saying he was safe from the ghost now. He just disappeared from the last half of the episode (in true Perez fashion!) by means of his hospital bed coma.

I have to say that although I guess it was nice that Samantha and Dirk were so understanding with Stuart, I'm not sure they were doing him a favor. The guy could not even order a pizza, play a video game, or assist a customer at work without erupting into a volcanic rage. He spent his time trolling on the internet, got fired by his previous boss, got kicked out by his roommate, was stealing from his current employers, and obviously needed professional help for his issues.  But again, unlike Ronald, whose story actually had a beginning, middle, and end, Stuart's just stopped in the middle of the episode -- so I guess we will never know if Stuart got help for his rage issues, or ended up getting himself shot to death in a road rage incident when he picks a fight with the wrong person.

Not that I wanted a whole episode about him or even cared what happened to him, because I really didn't, but it made the inclusion of all those details about his life seem pretty much superfluous, especially since it didn't seem to tie into anything else in the episode. I think it goes back to my first impression when I watched the episode, that I enjoyed it -- and there definitely were a few tasty scenes -- but as a whole found it thin and unsatisfying afterwards.

[bethy]

11 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I can see why you would compare Dirk with Ronald Reznick, in the sense that they were both oddball characters that Dean befriended. But I think that Ronald was a darker character, with a more complex story. Was he crazy to do what he did, or was he admirable to at least try to do something? Was he really like the Winchesters? (People think they're crazy, too!) Should they have told him the truth or kept him in the dark? Was his death inevitable? Ronald was ultimately a tragic figure, and  when he was killed, his death was meaningful -- to Dean, especially. Dirk was just a nice geeky guy -- nothing wrong with that, but that's all there was to his story.

Well, sure. They were very different characters, ultimately, but Dean’s befriending oddball dudes is so wonderfully consistent for his own character. Dirk and Ronald are both people who are easy for the world to dismiss, but who Dean engages with and bonds with and who both end up being more - braver, smarter, kinder - than one might have initially expected.

[ILoveReading]

On 11/2/2018 at 8:35 AM, Bergamot said:

To tell the truth, I just assumed that this was Dean's idea of what an insurance agent would look like, and I loved it! Dean has lived such a completely strange, unnatural, un-normal life since the age of four that he actually doesn't have any idea what it is like to be a normal, ordinary person, and when he tries to play the role of a normal person, he always gets it somehow weirdly off-kilter. It is very endearing.

So true.  My head canon is that part of the reason Dean chose that outfit because its completely different from the well tailored, well fitting suits that Michael made him wear.  So that if he saw himself in a mirror, he wouldn't be reminded. 

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

so I guess we will never know if Stuart got help for his rage issues

I wonder if Perez was originally trying to create a parallel with Dean and Stuart, but it got lost in translation.  Because we see Stuart trying to steal the ThunderCat, and then we learn that and had range issues.  When Hatchet Man escaped the comic book shop and locked Sam and Samantha in, why didn't he try to kill them.  We they trying to say that Hatchet man came after Dean because he did bad things.

I do find Perez's writing very shallow and superficial.  Sam's reason for hating halloween was kind of eye roll worthy.  After School Special told us that Sam and Dean moved every few weeks.  So even if he was embarrassed by what happened, he wouldn't have had to be there long.  So how attached was he really to the girl. 

Not to mention, Sam isn't over an incident from his childhood but he expects Dean to get over his traumas in a week?

Perez also copies and pastes a lot from previous episodes, trying to capture that nostalgia of prevoiously loved eps and their never good as the orginals.  So I wish they'd stop with the homages becasue they don't quite seem to have the knack.  (My opinion of course).

Edited November 4, 2018 by ILoveReading

[mertensia]

I thought Sam's reason was very realistic. Things like that can linger for years. 

I'm guessing dead guy didn't kill Samantha because he liked her. He didn't kill Sam because he was fixated on Stuart, and we've learned that ghosts can be fixated on a person or thing.

He went after Dean and Dirk because they were trying to save Stuart at the hospital. Not everything is about Dean.

[catrox14]

32 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

So true.  My head canon is that part of the reason Dean chose that outfit because its completely different from the well tailored, well fitting suits that Michael made him wear.  So that if he saw himself in a mirror, he wouldn't be reminded. 

Dean wears well tailored, well fitting suits all the time. Dean liked the 40s outfit in the Eliot Ness episode. I think he chose that jacket because he saw at a thrift store and liked it. 

[7kstar]

7 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Perez also copies and pastes a lot from previous episodes, trying to capture that nostalgia of prevoiously loved eps and their never good as the orginals.  So I wish they'd stop with the homages becasue they don't quite seem to have the knack.  (My opinion of course).

I think for me the problem is that it doesn't have the bang it should have.  It was okay but something was missing.  Maybe if it wasn't played for such big laughs it would land better.  Not sure.  Some spots I liked but I doubt I'll watch much again, as there is a lot that's easy to fast forward through.

4 hours ago, Myrelle said:

So nope, not down with even the BM in this one when it was only half there for Dean as usual, IMO. 

Well, they are doing what is tried and true.  They stop growth for both brothers but wanting them to say that Lucifer was a danger to the world and you stopped him won't happen.  We should get that with just from the fact that Lucifer's dead.  This last part is what I think the writers think we are seeing.

I'm a fan of both BROTHERS.  I don't waste time keeping score or count of what's been done to who.  But I've grown tired of what I'm watching.  Maybe because my real life has bigger issues right now and keeping score is a waste of my time.  I think on general the writing is less for many shows.  I wonder if the market makes it happen.  If they take real risks with an old show, they might lose fans and the show ends.  Or do they really think they are putting in high stakes? 

Do we the fans see what we see because of our expectations?  I'm tired of the infighting of the fans too.  I'm fine with you loving whoever you love.  I hate HORROR films so I'll never love this one because the monster looked too gross or too much like a rip off from some horror flick that I don't even care about.  I can get that Dean loves them and this is his go too when he's really feeling rotten.  I think the one line about how the bad guy always loses is a strong line for Dean.

Dean's love for westerns also fits this as the bad guy wears the black hat and loses in the end to the good guy in the white hat.  So I do think there were some gems in this middle of the road ep for me.  It won't be my favorite ever, but Dean does have some good moments.

I think the reason the last scene lands flat for me, is that I know they will do something to make it obsolete later.   But that is the fault of the rinse and repeat storytelling.  JMV

Edited November 4, 2018 by 7kstar
Just trying to clarify something I wrote

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, 7kstar said:

Well, they are doing what is tried and true.

It's only "tried and true" for one certain segment of the fandom now, though, and if even you, as a member of that certain segment has grown tired of what you're watching-for whatever reason-then what is that saying about the quality of the writing of the brother dynamic?

To me that means that there's nothing more true about the writing than your last statement, but to remedy that would require a showrunner and team of writers who are more talented and bold than the present set.

Bringing in new characters is not all that's needed to change the status quo on this show-especially if all you're doing as a writer is nothing more than plugging them in there to fill gaps in between the times that the two brothers can be on screen together.

IMO, the rinse and repeat writing will only change when the writers grasp the thought that the intensely dysfunctional part of the brothers' co-dependent relationship is capable of being lessened. I mean even if they want to keep it going as long as the series is on the air they could, at least lessen it for those of us who no longer care for it any longer, simply by letting the brothers hunt with someone else/other than each other now and then-AND the Js could and would still get the time off that they seem to want and need.

And the set up is even there for this right now, if only the writers were bold enough to recognize it because in the Winchesters they easily have TWO leaders of men, if they're so set on making Sam a leader in his own right. And there would be no need to strip Dean of his own leadership abilities if they would have or allow each brother to lead a contingent of hunters on hunts or have a two-pronged attack if the hunt warrants it, then right there you'd have a lessening of the intensely dysfunctional part of the co-dependent brother relationship. Better yet, even have Dean suggest it and you'd have big-time growth for Dean of the type that they've incessantly told us he's needed to work on(since S5!, FCOL).

Edited November 4, 2018 by Myrelle

[sarthaz]

I avoided this for a week, because watching the show tends to just make me sad now. But this was the best episode since "Fan Fiction". This is the show I fell in love with, flaws and all.

[Casseiopeia]

On 11/4/2018 at 5:03 AM, ILoveReading said:

When Hatchet Man escaped the comic book shop and locked Sam and Samantha in, why didn't he try to kill them.  We they trying to say that Hatchet man came after Dean because he did bad things.

I think he didn't try to kill Sam and Samantha because he wasn't after Samantha.  Sam was just trying to protect her.  HM went after Dean because Dean stood between him and Stuart.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[Casseiopeia]

So according to Lynn (Fangasm) this was totally improvised by Jared and Jensen.   They watched the episode together and were surprised it was left in (and I'm sure hysterical laughter was involved).

 

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

So according to Lynn (Fangasm) this was totally improvised by Jared and Jensen.   They watched the episode together and were surprised it was left in (and I'm sure hysterical laughter was involved).

 

This so funny and the 2nd best part of the episode (the first being Dean making it clear that he likes movies wherein the bad guy loses).   I feel like Jensen did it first and Jared just followed along LOL

[ILoveReading]

I'm trying to figure out if Dean's Thelma and Louise reference means anything.  He listed the other pairs, and the pause and said Thelma and Louise and the expression on his face seemed different.

If I believed there was still a chance that Michael is imtating Dean, that would be a scene I would point too.   Dean just didn't seem right.  So was he trying to tell Sam something?

I can't read Jared's expression, is he annoyed, concerned or both due to the reference and the way that movie ends?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm trying to figure out if Dean's Thelma and Louise reference means anything.  He listed the other pairs, and the pause and said Thelma and Louise and the expression on his face seemed different.

If I believed there was still a chance that Michael is imtating Dean, that would be a scene I would point too.   Dean just didn't seem right.  So was he trying to tell Sam something?

I can't read Jared's expression, is he annoyed, concerned or both due to the reference and the way that movie ends?

I think he just paused because all the other duos were male and comical, where Thema and Louise were female and died. Given that he was looking a year ahead and trying to bolster Sam, I don't think it meant anything nefarious or foreshadowing. Jared's expression was, IMO, just his default Dean-is-an-idiot face.

Edited November 8, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Binns]

I’m late, but I absolutely adored this episode. All Sam & Dean, MOTW, great storyline, and so many little moments- loved their banter, loved how excited Dean got for the case and how smug Sam was because his ploy to get Dean out of his funk worked, loved Sam MacGuyvering, ooops, Sammy got knocked out AGAIN (he’s gonna have CTE), loved Sam acknowledging at the end what Dean did for him and others by saying yes. It was all good. 

[Binns]

On 2/11/2018 at 9:10 AM, Bobcatkitten said:

 

P.S. My only negative is related to fandom, not the show per se. I am just over the various factions twisting every line in every scene to fit their ship. Both sides do it - claiming victory or shade. Ugh.

I completely agree with this. Sometimes I hate looking at reviews bc they depress me. I’ve said it before- I think I’m just simpler about this show. 

[takalotti]

THEN

What does it say about the direction the show has taken for a while when they have to remind us about ghosts, salt and iron? And did they even use iron in this one?

 

NOW

Did anyone watch Wonderfalls? Panthro's animation reminded me of the chotchkies in that show.

 

Okay, I know no one, including me (and especially not @catrox14), is gonna complain about the guys wearing short sleeves. But outdoors in October in Ohio? 🤨

 

S: M-I-R-L, meet in real life.

D: Why do you know what that means?

Me: 🤣

 

D: Hmm. 'Cause your hospital report said that you had marks on your face (draws circle in air), your legs (gestures with whole hand), your back (gestures with whole hand), and your ... (cupping motion) genitals.

Me: 😂😂😂

 

I’m not gonna say "What was up with Dean's outfit?" But I AM gonna ask what was up with the slow build up of the outfit? First a short sleeved button down, THEN the glasses, THEN the plaid sport coat. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

The awkward ducking in Baby had me rolling! Plus the seat creak. And then sitting up being all smooth.

 

Sorry, but with the amount of injuries these guys have seen, why wouldn't Sam immediately administer first aid by applying pressure? It’s like fanning the lit paper all over again.

 

Samantha's deliveries were excellent!...

 

S: Hey, are you okay?

Samantha: No!

 

S: You sure?

Samantha: I-I was pretty busy screaming, but yeah I’m sure!

 

Samantha: I’ve been taking money out of his checks to make up for it but .. I guess ... a ghost wouldn’t know that.

 

Also, I only just now noticed Samantha/Dirk and Sam/Dean.

 

I nearly laughed to tears when Hatchet Man was just walking around in plain sight. I didn’t even need the trick or treaters to react to him. That was hilarious all on its own. Has the show ever done that before? Had the monster walk around on Halloween or some other acceptable context?

 

D: Unless it’s Godzilla, it’s real.

Me: But they saw Godzilla in the Bad Place!

 

Hahaha! I loved Dean prepping to bash the glass for the axe, and then checking the door. Reminds me of that episode where he kicked a bunch of doors open and then Sam held him off and just tried the knob.

 

The hospital chase/security guard scene was pretty silly, but still fun.

 

Sorry, but no. That explosion would not have blown the door off AND left everything on the desk untouched. Also, what door was that? A back door?

 

Liked the VHS tracking effect on the "trailer."

 

What other show would use bedpans in a fight scene? 😂

 

Pretty cool effect with the flaming ghost leaving Hatchet Man.

 

Haha! Moose and squirrel! Shaggy and Scooby followed by two more duos with a dog in them. Shout out to both the Scooby episode and the one where Dean acted like a dog? But then Thelma and Louise... I hope that’s not foreshadowing!

 

What does that ending mean? Did Michael also amp up ghosts so that regular methods of dispelling them aren’t permanent? Or just going along with the cheesy horror movie theme? 

 

It wasn’t until the end credits I realized NO other recurring characters were in this one.

[Cambion]

Very late to the party here, but only decided to do more than lurk yesterday.  lol

 

Anyway, I thought I saw someone reference this article in this thread but then I couldn't find it.  Apologies if I'm repeating and missed it in my pass through.

 

Dean is a giant nerd.

 

Also, re the Jensen as Red Hood graphic, Did ya'll catch the one at the bottom of the stairs in Stuart's basement? Another easter egg? Here's a really bad screengrab:

 

 

 

 

What ya'll think?

[SueB]

I DIDN’T see the poster.  Thanks for bringing that in!

[The Companion]

 

On 11/2/2018 at 8:10 AM, Bobcatkitten said:

 

Some might think Sam's Halloween secret was lame but I LOVED that is was a normal childhood experience that scarred him - not some crazy hunting trauma. It was a window to normal that was great. 

 

Same. I expected it to be another "John Winchester Sucked" special or maybe an "It's Your Fault, Dean" story. I was happy it was just an embarrassing story.

On 11/2/2018 at 12:16 PM, bearcatfan said:

I don’t think Sam’s reason for hating Halloween is lame. Things that happen in childhood can have a lasting effect. I still can’t eat applesauce because of a stupid story I heard when I was 5. My adult brain knows it’s stupid, but I still get ill just thinking about eating it. 

I still feel an inordinate amount of shame for throwing up in 5th grade during class. Like, I want to crawl into a hole thinking about it.

I loved this one. I love campy horror flicks and I was excited to see an old school ghost story. I enjoyed watching the guys just be for a minute.