S01.E09: Chapter Nine: The Returned Man

[Athena]

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Sabrina recruits Roz for a crucial mission. Susie reconnects with her past. Lord Blackwood challenges Aunt Zelda's authority.

 

[theatremouse]

This episode wanted to be The Body but was nowhere near as good.

[Ivylady]

Sabrina is incredibly gullible, too much so at this point. Her smugness that she's smarter than everyone about everything witch is ridiculous. I'm glad it blew up in her face, but she really should have known better by now. 

[kitlee625]

8 hours ago, Ivylady said:

Sabrina is incredibly gullible, too much so at this point. Her smugness that she's smarter than everyone about everything witch is ridiculous. I'm glad it blew up in her face, but she really should have known better by now. 

I agree. Overall I like Sabrina, but her over confidence was getting really hard to watch. It's nice that it had some very real consequences, with her family basically refusing to support her crazy schemes, and even Aunt Hilda calling her out. 

[kitlee625]

I also wanted to add, aside from all the stuff with Zombie Tommy, I was really intrigued when Sabrina met her mother in Limbo. The show has been hinting that there’s more to her parents than what Sabrina’s been told, but this blows the biggest hole in that story - that her parents married for true love, and she and her parents were a happy family until that darn “plane crash.”

 

I think the people who took Sabrina after her baptism were Hilda and Zelda, under orders from Edward. But why did he do that? Did he know that he and is wife were going to die?

[Miles]

Aunt Hilda is pretty awesome with her truth telling abilities. I wouldn't want to get on her bad side.

Although I kinda would have liked to see a different reaction from the bully. After aunt Hilda said "get out or do you want me to tell everybody?". I would have liked it if he had broken down crying and said "yes! please!". I don't know, it's probably less realistic, but what is realistic on this show and after the story about how he tried to tell everybody when he was a boy and nobody would believe him, I'm sure a big part of him still wants the truth to be known.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Miles

[BooBear]

23 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

I agree. Overall I like Sabrina, but her over confidence was getting really hard to watch. It's nice that it had some very real consequences, with her family basically refusing to support her crazy schemes, and even Aunt Hilda calling her out. 

I agree this was no where as good as "the body" but also I enjoyed that Sabrina really faced consequences here. For too much of the series everything has been going her way.  It was great that it did blow up in her face after many warnings. I hope she will listen now.  

[Whimsy]

I guess I don't see any comparison to The Body in any way at all.  The whole point of The Body was that Joyce died from natural causes.  There was nothing supernatural about the circumstances of her death and the whole episode was devoted to "regular" feelings of loss and grief.  This whole episode was chock full of supernatural stuff. 

I just don't know how the witches have stayed secret for so long if they go around spouting secrets and therefore showing that they read minds, or whatever.  

[kitlee625]

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

I guess I don't see any comparison to The Body in any way at all.  The whole point of The Body was that Joyce died from natural causes.  There was nothing supernatural about the circumstances of her death and the whole episode was devoted to "regular" feelings of loss and grief.  This whole episode was chock full of supernatural stuff. 

I just don't know how the witches have stayed secret for so long if they go around spouting secrets and therefore showing that they read minds, or whatever.  

Agreed, "The Body" was a very different kind of episode. This episode wasn't really about death or the loss of Tommy. Sabrina admitted that she didn't really know Tommy. Rather, the pain that she experienced was the separation between her and her mortal friends, and the burden of having powers but not being able to use them without consequence. Sabrina's greatest flaw in this season is that she thinks that she can have it all - enjoy her powers without limitation, defeat the Dark Lord, and live a mortal life with her friends. But even setting aside the rules of the Church of Night, there are other forces keeping the mortal and witch worlds separate. Sabrina will age so slowly compared to her friends (which hasn't really come up yet - that Harvey will become an old man and die while Sabrina remains youthful) and that she has knowledge and powers that she can never share with them.

 

I assume that for the most part, witches try to remain as separate from the mortal world as possible to avoid exposing themselves. It's just that the Spellmans seem to be particularly bad at that. Which really raises the question of why Sabrina was allowed to go to school in the first place, since their family has inevitably formed connections to the mortals of Greeendale.

Edited October 30, 2018 by kitlee625

[Chaos Theory]

Plus Sabrina is just a teenager and they are annoyingly willful.  They of course know more then any adult and won’t listen to reason.  Sabrina was bound to learn a hard hard lesson about the limits of her power.  

[BooBear]

11 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I guess I don't see any comparison to The Body in any way at all. 

I saw it has a supernatural character coming face to face with a power that is far more powerful and real and feeling the weight of "reality". 

Quote

Sabrina's greatest flaw in this season is that she thinks that she can have it all - enjoy her powers without limitation, defeat the Dark Lord, and live a mortal life with her friends. But even setting aside the rules of the Church of Night, there are other forces keeping the mortal and witch worlds separate. Sabrina will age so slowly compared to her friends (which hasn't really come up yet - that Harvey will become an old man and die while Sabrina remains youthful) and that she has knowledge and powers that she can never share with them.

I did see her starting to recognize that in the final episode but in a way she went too far the other way. The idea of becoming an adult is learning how to be you without hurting others. So hopefully she will learn that both worlds are part of her life and to bridge the two.  I think she could live that perfect blended life but she has a long way to go and a lot to learn to do so.

[methodwriter85]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:32 AM, kitlee625 said:

I was really intrigued when Sabrina met her mother in Limbo. The show has been hinting that there’s more to her parents than what Sabrina’s been told, but this blows the biggest hole in that story - that her parents married for true love, and she and her parents were a happy family until that darn “plane crash.”

Yeah, are we supposed to infer that Sabrina actually has no memories at all of her parents? It makes it sound very, very Harry Potter-ish/Supernatural-ish that they died when Sabrina was a newborn baby. I'd been under the impression that they at least made it to Sabrina's early childhood.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, Faustus didn't waste any time setting up Zelda to replace his wife - teaching her classes, taking over the choir, and making her unholy night godmother to the twins before they're even born. Should we expect Lady Blackwood to have an accident once the twins are safely out of her?

After the whole Wormtail situation in Harry Potter, I do not trust the familiar that Faustus gave to Ambrose.

Damn, Sabrina, if you're going to ask Roz to use her new visions to figure out what's happening with Tommy, maybe don't keep saying her name and asking what's happening while she's doing it.

I'm glad Susie stopped feeling she needed to wear dresses. I'm still not 100% sure she can trust the ghost of Dorothea. For all we know, it's faux Wardwell astral projecting in disguise to feed her infomation. Heh, maybe this show has just made me paranoid enough that I don't trust most of these characters.

I really want to know what Hilda would have said to someone who is just a punk ass bully without a secret like the football player.

Sabrina was really getting too big for her britches which I partly chalk up to her being a teenager. The problem is when you get too cocky and you have all this power at your disposal. As Ambrose and Hilda tried to warn her beforehand, she was messing with some very dark and very complicated magic. She had no previous experience with doing something like necromancy. She had no idea what all the risks/consequences/rules were. She just did it because she thought she could. Later she was totally insistent that she could just walk into limbo and find Tommy's soul, despite the fact that she didn't know how to access limbo, how to get back, etc. I totally get wanting to help ease Harvey's pain, but as one of the other witches pointed out, they have these rules for a reason.

I really liked that there were consequences for her actions - first there was the natural balance consequence which I feel some shows with magic don't always include (or they say there's a price for magic but they're selective about it). And then there were the consequences to her life - Harvey breaking up with her, Zelda's anger, Father Blackwood finding out, etc.

[Scarlett45]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:31 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Yeah, are we supposed to infer that Sabrina actually has no memories at all of her parents? It makes it sound very, very Harry Potter-ish/Supernatural-ish that they died when Sabrina was a newborn baby. I'd been under the impression that they at least made it to Sabrina's early childhood.

No, I recall they had mentioned that they passed when Sabrina was a baby. Now in casual conversation people say “the baby” far past the newborn stage (first three months) or the child’s first year of life (when it’s technically a baby), but she wasn’t a school age or even 3/4 when they passed. She may have been one or so (like Harry Potter) or under 2. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Scarlett45

[iMonrey]

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I assume that for the most part, witches try to remain as separate from the mortal world as possible to avoid exposing themselves.

Buy owning and running businesses that cater to mortals?

[jane1978]

First, let me say these last episodes were much better than the first 6. Finally, the drama started to feel real and there were some true consequnces to Sabrina´s action. I also like the way they are integrating the rest of friends into her world with the "cunning" and ghosty ancestors pep-talks. That said, I´m really suprised nobody sugested to kill Mr. Kinkle to pay the blood price for Tommy. I quess they don´t want Sabrina to go that dark (yet) but I think the conflict would be much stronger if Sabrina was atleast offered this simple magical solution which seemingly could solve everything.

[Last Time Lord]

Tommy didn't deserve that.

Tommy did not deserve what happened to him, in both body and soul. And he especially didn't deserve to get Old Yeller'd, like that.

Speaking of, I thought Harvey would have done something like smothering him with a pillow. Shooting him is bound to raise a few questions, unless he somehow arranged it so it looked like a suicide, which I highly doubt.

[CrystalBlue]

Tommy died in the mine; Sabrina conjured up his body without his soul, so Harvey shooting Zombie Tommy didn't cause him any pain, so at least there's that.

I agree with everyone who's said that Sabrina got too big for her britches and am glad her free ride is over.  I guess that's what I don't like in Sabrina's personality (which I said in a previous thread).  Her cockiness and know-it-all attitude really grated on me.

I loved Hilda in this episode!  Calling Sabrina out and putting in her place was great.

[Chaos Theory]

I know a lot of people (especially teenagers) want Sabrina to hold to her morals and be able to live on both worlds but honestly I think that is an incredibly boring story.  The more interesting and grownup story is which parts of each world is she willing to give up for the greater good or evil as the case may be. 

[tennisgurl]

I loved Zelda leading Satan's Choir in Do-Re-Mi, one of the least evil songs in the history of music. And the kids seemed to be getting into it too, which made it even more hilarious, and kind of endearing. 

I like Sabrina, but she was getting WAY too cocky in how much she wants to have it all. Like Ambrose said earlier, Sabrina thinks that the universal laws just dont apply to her the way they apply to everyone else. Which is a pretty understandable attitude for a sixteen year old to have, but when your a sixteen year old with the powers to raise the dead and such, that attitude can have very serious consequences. She really messed up here, and while it sucks that poor Tommy and Harvey had to suffer, its time that she learned a lesson. She wants to always have her cake and eat it too, but now the cake has gone rotten. 

[shimarella]

Its been a long time since I posted in these forums! I binged this show and enjoyed it. My only comment to add at this point is that the episode didnt remind me of The Body, but what it DID remind me of was the followup ( Forever), which TRIED to be a spin on The Monkeys Paw. I thought this episode did a much better job of that ( and referenced it openly). Sabrina does indeed have much to learn but thats a huge plot point so I was fine with her fucking up badly due to her own over-confidence. My heart broke for Harvey. Although I wondered why he didnt just smother Tommy in his sleep rather than use a shotgun, but I guess that's Americans for you? haha 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

16 hours ago, shimarella said:

I wondered why he didnt just smother Tommy in his sleep rather than use a shotgun, but I guess that's Americans for you? haha 

To quote Hallie Lowenthal on My So-Called Life, "Why simmer when you can boil?" I imagine that Harvey thought Tommy would die more quickly (and hopefully painlessly) if he shot him, as opposed to smothering him, but yeah, tv characters always seem to choose the messiest and most violent way to kill people!

[Athena]

I think there was a fear that zombie Tommy might have attacked Harvey back if he tried to smother him. 

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/27/2018 at 1:38 PM, Athena said:

I think there was a fear that zombie Tommy might have attacked Harvey back if he tried to smother him. 

The only way to kill a zombie is to destroy its brain.  This is why Harvey shot Zombie Tommy in the head.

Edited November 29, 2018 by CrystalBlue

[shimarella]

Ah ok that makes sense, I forgot about that!

[cleo]

This show is so ridiculous but I still enjoy it. So shoot a guy in the head in his sleep and no worries about doing 25 to life?

Listen Judge he was already dead, honest. He didn't feel a thing! 

So dumb.

[Bruinsfan]

With a rifle, no less! Bets on Harvey taking a moment to consider exactly how Tommy would have held the gun for his "suicide"?