S03.E07: Aftermath

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

The press crucifies Daredevil after the attack on the Bulletin, and Agent Nadeem suspects the FBI paid too high a price for Fisk's cooperation.

[Lady Calypso]

I found it amusing when Matt discovered Fisk's plan for framing him for being Daredevil. I know it's him framing him for being a killer Daredevil, but still, the line made me chuckle with how exasperated and pissed off Matt was.

Seriously the FBI sucks if they keep missing the fact that Fisk has people everywhere doing his bidding, including his own damn lawyers. I am glad that Hattley was ready to go right to her superiors the moment Ray told her about Fisk possibly playing them. 

Poor Melvin! I'm glad Matt decided to help Betsy. It shows that Matt isn't truly lost, even when he has Fisk as the devil on his shoulder, telling him otherwise.

Foggy and Marci are a surprisingly good couple together. 

I do feel bad for Karen, who keeps trying to do the right thing. I didn't realize her family situation was that messed up. The scene where she called home was actually heartbreaking. All she wanted was some support from her dad and he couldn't give her that.

The Daredevil/Ray scene at the end was decent but I still think Ray's a dumbass. 

[Pogojoco]

It was driving me a little crazy when Karen couldn't give Ellison or Ray any details to indicate how she knew the guy in the Daredevil costume wasn't Daredevil (besides "Because he isn't Matt Murdock".) Maybe she couldn't say this to Ray, but to Ellison she could've said, "His voice was different, he has a cleft chin and the other guy doesn't." Also, this Daredevil used a gun. She's written a lot of stories about Daredevil, so she knows he doesn't use guns, ever, though there are probably plenty available because the people he fights are often packing.She just could've said, "This guy used my gun. In all the reports about Daredevil from the people he's saved, never once has anyone ever reported him using a gun." 

It's understandable that she didn't, but I was like "Come on, Karen...." 

 

It did allow Ellison to yell, though. So that's nice. 

[moonshine71]

3 hours ago, Pogojoco said:

It was driving me a little crazy when Karen couldn't give Ellison or Ray any details to indicate how she knew the guy in the Daredevil costume wasn't Daredevil (besides "Because he isn't Matt Murdock".) Maybe she couldn't say this to Ray, but to Ellison she could've said, "His voice was different, he has a cleft chin and the other guy doesn't." Also, this Daredevil used a gun. She's written a lot of stories about Daredevil, so she knows he doesn't use guns, ever, though there are probably plenty available because the people he fights are often packing.She just could've said, "This guy used my gun. In all the reports about Daredevil from the people he's saved, never once has anyone ever reported him using a gun." 

It's understandable that she didn't, but I was like "Come on, Karen...." 

 

It did allow Ellison to yell, though. So that's nice. 

Yeah, that was a little bothersome. 

 

 "I've met Daredevil. I've seen him up close and personal. He saved my life twice. He's spoken to me. THIS WAS CLEARLY NOT THE SAME GUY."

[Cthulhudrew]

"The man who attacked the bulletin. The man in the Daredevil costume... he's FBI."

"Keep talking."

(Music builds to a dramatic crescendo)

Then, awkwardly...

"Umm. That's all I've got." Matt shuffles his feet awkwardly as Agent Nadeem facepalms. "I was kinda hoping you could help with the rest."

[Kel Varnsen]

I am not sure if it is camera tricks or if Vincent D'Onofrio actually is that big but he looks like a giant in this show. The scene at the beginning where he met with his lawyer made him look 2 or 3 feet taller.

I did like sister Maggie suggesting that other super people could take on the fight against Fisk, but Matt is too caught up in his own shit to let anyone try. Because really Dax's skills would be pretty useless against Luke Cage, Jessica Jones could probably get evidence on Fisk's plab pretty easily and Frank would just murder every one of those assholes.

On 20/10/2018 at 11:35 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Foggy and Marci are a surprisingly good couple together. 

I can't believe how real they are. In season 1 I really figured she would justvbe the hot girl from law school that he had an unrequited crush on but had nothing in common with and she had no idea who he was. But this works much better.

Also, man Karen's dad, what a dick.

[thuganomics85]

I'm really at the point know where I don't if Fisk himself is the biggest danger on this show or if it is the FBI's incompetency that is the bigger threat.

Glad Mitchell is alive, even though he basically blew up at poor Karen and pretty much fired her for not telling him who Daredevil was.  That said, it really wouldn't have been that hard for Karen to make-up another reason for why she knows that it wasn't the real Daredevil that attacked the bulletin.  Say that his voice was different or his chin wasn't the same.  The mask might hide his identity, but those would have been more then believable to him (not sure about Ray since I felt like he wouldn't have listen to anything she said.)

I was wondering if they were going to bring back Melvin.  Sucks he's got himself captured, but at least it sounds like Fisk doesn't plan on going after him for not completing his mission.

I hope nothing happens to Foggy/Marci.

According to IMDB, Karen's dad was played by 

Spoiler

Lee Tergesen, which automatically makes my eyebrows rise, because that man tends to always play scummy characters.

[blueray]

Quote

Also, man Karen's dad, what a dick.

I was thinking this too.  We don't know much about the backstory. But I feel most parents would be freaking out as they know their child works at that newspaper. I guess it ties back to the scene where Karen got all tear-eyed seeing all the messages from people who didn't have their phones.  She was sad that they had people who were worried about them. It was kind of subtle but I liked how they portrayed Foggy's reaction. He was clearly shaken up by what he saw. Foggy and Marci are great and hopefully they stay that way.

I really feel like Karen should have said because I've met this guy twice and he save me (and others). This clearly isn't the same guy. And he doesn't use guns.

Edited October 25, 2018 by blueray

[Danny Franks]

Ah, so the FBI are even dumber than I thought. Fisk has a whole centre of operations, hidden away below the penthouse. And they don't have a clue. I had wondered how he was able to reach outside.

This was an appropriately titled episode, given how much it focused on the effects the attack at the Bulletin had on Matt, Karen and Foggy.

That scene of Karen looking at the phones of the victims, as they buzzed with messages, was really effective. I'm really glad Ellison survived, and that he didn't blame Karen. Although I can understand his anger when he realised Karen knew a lot more than she'd ever let on. Seems like the solution for her would be to say, 'I do know who Daredevil is. I'll talk to him, and see if he's willing to speak to you."

But man, Karen's dad... what a gigantic asshole. He knows that she's just gone through something traumatic, he can hear how distressed she is, and he says "the timing's not great"? And then he fucking blames her for whatever happened? No wonder she's so messed up.

And I guess Foggy was really effective too, judging by Marcie's reaction. I like Marcie a lot, actually. Her reaction to him asking her to marry him was great - "Stop!"

I guess Fisk is just the embodiment of Matt's guilt and self-loathing. Which is fitting, because Matt seems to be putting the entirety of his worth on whether he can stop Fisk. And I'm glad they at least had him explain why he wasn't looking for help. Because, let's face it, the best guy to fight someone who can turn anything into a projectile weapon, would be someone with superhuman strength and impenetrable skin.

Melvin is proof of how even good people can be coerced into doing evil, when someone knows what vulnerabilities to press on. Now he's fucked, no matter what. This is why I still fear that Nadeem is going to be knowingly compromised. He's got too much riding on being right to have let Fisk out.

Fisk's lawyer saying he's concerned about Dex's mental stability seems like a massive understatement. Dude's a nutcase.

[millennium]

There's something undeniably cliche about the costumed hero being framed by an evil impostor (take any given season of Arrow, for example); even so, in terms of drama and quality, this season of Daredevil is lightyears ahead of any of its sister shows.   Only Punisher comes close, and not that close either.

In previous seasons I have found Foggy and Karen to be alternately preachy and nagging but I think they finally hit their stride this time around.   The focus on Matt (vs. Daredevil) has also proven very interesting (although I hate the vigilante rag wrapped around his face).

Dex's ability and his coincidental proximity to Fisk are too convenient.   Fisk remains repellent as ever, meaning that Vincent D'onoffrio is doing his job.

But the most refreshing change of all is the virtual absence of the Hand/occult nonsense, and (so far) no Claire or other Defenders crossover characters.   It will take a long time to get the bad taste of Iron Fist and Luke Cage out of my mouth, but this is a good start.

Still love the moody intro to this show, never skip it.

Edited October 31, 2018 by millennium

[Captanne]

millennium, we have the same optics on this show and opinions.  I'm so glad to get some backstory on Karen.  I have always loved Foggy.  

I'm delighted there is no Electra -- I can't stand the character or the actress.  And I don't feel one spark of chemistry between her (character or actress) and Matt/Daredevil. 

This show excels in "manpain" -- particularly when our two opposed main characters are pining after women.  (Always one in particular.)  It's cliche and nauseating but I understand it's part of the genre.

I "get" Fisk and Francesca.  I. do. not. get. Daredevil. and. Electra.  Ugh.

So, blessing there.

I don't mind the Hand and find it kind of fascinating - but it's nice to get a breather and keep things closer to Hell's Kitchen's own troubles.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Captanne

[CertainJewel]

9 hours ago, Captanne said:

 I. do. not. get. Daredevil. and. Electra.  Ugh.

I always thought the point of Daredevil/Matt and Electra is that she brings out the devil side. Whenever he is with her he is so focused on her and what she brings to him that he doesn't seem to give a hoot about the good people and good reasons in his life. It is a Catholic idea that you have both good and evil in you. Which do you chose? 

He seemed to get over her fairly quickly this season and I like to think it's because she isn't there making it easier for him to move on. 

On the other hand I hated when she was brought back to life. That whole bit, I'm glad is over. 

[Captanne]

That's a great idea and probably what they tried to migrate from the comic.  But, man, it does not work for me in the show as it aired.

Finished the series last night and I think this season was the best one so far.  Just wonderful.  (The pair that totally worked for me was Fisk and Francesca.)

[Llywela]

9 hours ago, Captanne said:

That's a great idea and probably what they tried to migrate from the comic.  But, man, it does not work for me in the show as it aired.

Finished the series last night and I think this season was the best one so far.  Just wonderful.  (The pair that totally worked for me was Fisk and Francesca.)

Do you mean Fisk and Vanessa?

[Captanne]

Sure do.  Sorry for forgetting her name.

[Anela]

On 10/21/2018 at 12:05 AM, Pogojoco said:

It was driving me a little crazy when Karen couldn't give Ellison or Ray any details to indicate how she knew the guy in the Daredevil costume wasn't Daredevil (besides "Because he isn't Matt Murdock".) Maybe she couldn't say this to Ray, but to Ellison she could've said, "His voice was different, he has a cleft chin and the other guy doesn't." Also, this Daredevil used a gun. She's written a lot of stories about Daredevil, so she knows he doesn't use guns, ever, though there are probably plenty available because the people he fights are often packing.She just could've said, "This guy used my gun. In all the reports about Daredevil from the people he's saved, never once has anyone ever reported him using a gun." 

It's understandable that she didn't, but I was like "Come on, Karen...." 

 

It did allow Ellison to yell, though. So that's nice. 

 

On 10/21/2018 at 4:01 AM, moonshine71 said:

Yeah, that was a little bothersome. 

 

 "I've met Daredevil. I've seen him up close and personal. He saved my life twice. He's spoken to me. THIS WAS CLEARLY NOT THE SAME GUY."

I was thinking the same thing. I was obviously not him. 

I think Vanessa just seems like another one of Fisk's possessions. 

It is really annoying to see Fisk consistently outsmart the FBI. I thought the villain lair was a bit much, but then this is a show based on a comic book. 

[sinkwriter]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:15 PM, Anela said:

It is really annoying to see Fisk consistently outsmart the FBI. I thought the villain lair was a bit much, but then this is a show based on a comic book.

Seriously, when he opened that door, I was like, "He has a secret LAIR in there???" Come ON. I know he likes to play the long game and has obviously been planning this a long time, but how was this missed? It just makes the FBI look really, really incompetent. 

And again, where did he get all the money to do this? Did he have this built back in season 1, "just in case"? Because they already said he was out of money, so ...???

Edited June 3, 2019 by sinkwriter

[WendyCR72]

32 minutes ago, sinkwriter said:

And again, where did he get all the money to do this? Did he have this built back in season 1, "just in case"? Because they already said he was out of money, so ...???

I fanwanked that as Vanessa having money stashed somewhere. And we know she would have basically done anything for him. I know, that likely makes no sense. But she did work around art and such, so she probably made a good buck! LOL!

[sinkwriter]

LOL.

Yeah, it's just a little laughable to me, the extent of his reach. It's so convenient whenever they need it. I could see him orchestrating all sorts of things, but to have an entire lair built within the hotel seems pretty over the top. At some point, I say, he can't have access to everything and everyone.

[Raja]

On 10/23/2018 at 12:13 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I was wondering if they were going to bring back Melvin.  Sucks he's got himself captured, but at least it sounds like Fisk doesn't plan on going after him for not completing his mission.

I

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Lee Tergesen, which automatically makes my eyebrows rise, because that man tends to always play scummy characters.

I do like that being 5 steps ahead he has figured out that if he kills people that did do what he said just to be safe a lot of others would try to get into witness protection instead of being sure losers in the end.

Since he refused before he heard the FBI arrest team that Matt refused armored protection and treating it like a national uniform to be discarded if you disagreed with the political direction since it was soiled by Dex was a lame excuse.