S01.E09: Screaming Meemies

[jmonique]

Quote

While struggling to discern dreams from reality, Olivia fears for her children's safety, a motherly instinct Mrs. Dudley urges her to embrace.

I started my first topic here to say: I can't believe these child actors' parents REALLY let their kids take these jobs and say these lines. Those were some creepy-ass lines from the kids playing the young twins.

Carla Gugino is great in this.

Edited October 15, 2018 by 17wheatthins
Fixed season/episode tag

[Whimsy]

9 hours ago, jmonique said:

 

Carla Gugino is great in this.

Agreed. She looks stunning and did such a wonderful job portraying her descent into losing reality. 

[yourdreamer]

Who exactly is Abigail? Thought she might have been the Dudley child. But that seems a little wrong. 

[Megan]

On 10/14/2018 at 8:04 PM, yourdreamer said:

Who exactly is Abigail? Thought she might have been the Dudley child. But that seems a little wrong. 

That's what I thought too. Then she walked off with that 1930's lady I didn't recognize.

[Slovenly Muse]

On 10/14/2018 at 8:04 PM, yourdreamer said:

Who exactly is Abigail? Thought she might have been the Dudley child. But that seems a little wrong. 

 

19 hours ago, Megan said:

That's what I thought too. Then she walked off with that 1930's lady I didn't recognize.

Didn't Mr. Dudley say that his mother had died after bouts of erratic behaviour caused by the house? If Abigail is the Dudley child, that woman could have been her grandmother. I agree it is confusing. If she's real (died from poisoning, so probably not a ghost?) she MUST be the Dudley child. But if she is the Dudley child, who's never set foot in Hill House before, then how does she already have a ghostly caregiver she seems to know?

[BeeBop88]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 11:16 PM, jmonique said:

I started my first topic here to say: I can't believe these child actors' parents REALLY let their kids take these jobs and say these lines. Those were some creepy-ass lines from the kids playing the young twins.

Carla Gugino is great in this.

ITA and that is what I was thinking too. The whole story is creepy. These kids are like 6 years old. Sadly some parents will have their kids do and say anything in order to become famous and rich. That being said, all of these kid actors are doing a great acting job. Very talented bunch. 

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:04 PM, yourdreamer said:

Who exactly is Abigail? Thought she might have been the Dudley child. But that seems a little wrong

I was thinking Abigail wasn't real for a long time, but I guess I was wrong. I thought Abigail may have been Poppy's kid until I realized she is not a ghost. I keep thinking the kid is Dudley related. Good thing the kids mom jumped off that balcony and killed herself, because after what she did to Abigail, I think Mrs. Dudley would not be too happy.  

[Anela]

On 10/14/2018 at 12:16 AM, jmonique said:

I started my first topic here to say: I can't believe these child actors' parents REALLY let their kids take these jobs and say these lines. Those were some creepy-ass lines from the kids playing the young twins.

Carla Gugino is great in this.

I was thinking the same thing, that scene with the twins had me a bit concerned for the actors themselves. 

I thought that little girl was a ghost the whole time, recreating her death? That wasn't the case?? No way would the Dudley's have let their little girl spend one night there, so either she sneaked out, or that was another one. Oh crap, if she was a real little girl, that just got even more heartbreaking. 

[Lamima]

I just finished this epi. I wonder if Abigail is the 'other body' that the detective mentioned to the dad in the interview? I was thinking it was the remains they found in the basement wall but maybe it's Abigail. But I do think Abigail is a ghost...she's who the Dudley mom was giggling with in the woods??? I am thinking Poppy killed her kids and one was Abigail and the Dudley mom giggled with her in the woods. I thought maybe that scene where Olivia was shaking Abigail's dead body was really Poppy inside of Olivia (possessed) and she was remembering when she killed her daughter.

[tennisgurl]

I thought for sure that Abigail was a ghost, but now I wonder if she was the Dudlys second child, in which case, Olivia just sat there and watched as a child died, maybe even accidentally killed her! Or not? With this show, its hard to tell whats just happening in the minds of the characters, and whats happening as some kind of supernatural occurrence. 

Poppy is super creepy, that house really is just filled to the brim with ghosts! However, watching Olivia slowly lose her mind, and how scared her family is for her, is even scarier, and horribly tragic. That ending, with her jumping just like Nell will eventually, cutting right to a flashback of them all happily moving in, hit me right in the gut. Its so awful seeing how deeply scarred this once happy family and cute, bubbly kids were by this event, and how terribly it affected all of them. 

I really hope the kid actors playing the twins didnt really realize what they were saying with the whole "left in the woods" sequence, or at least had their parents or someone around. That was straight up chilling. The twins never really had a chance, did they?  

Carla Gugino has been great this whole time, but I am glad she got such a wonderful showcase like this. And the scenes with Mrs. Dudley were really good too, it was nice to give her more time to shine. 

[Lady Calypso]

I'm glad we finally got an Olivia-centric episode. I've been waiting to really see what was going on in her head during their stay at Hill House, before her death, and it was sad to watch her drift into insanity, to watch so many ghosts like Poppy manipulate her. I've been wondering why Hugh didn't get Olivia out sooner. As it proved in this episode, it was far too late. Olivia was doomed the moment they moved into the house, it seems.

I have been wondering who Abigail was and why there hasn't been someone who made a big deal out of her earlier. But then again, I also haven't dwelled too much on Abigail, which surprises me. Luke seeing a ghost with a name without questioning it, even in the present, is odd. Now, I find the question about what Abigail was during 1992 really interesting. Was she a ghost or was she a real life girl? It's hard to tell.

I'm also glad we got a little more of Clara Dudley. Annabeth and Carla's scenes were magnificent.  

The poor twins. Nellie never stood a chance, and it looks like it'll be impossible for Luke to survive this season as well. Every part of this season has either foreshadows to his death, or something horrific will continue to happen to him, and I can't decide which. But, like Nell somehow saw her own death over the years, Olivia saw her adult children before she died in a horrific manner. 

So, Shirley's last moments with her mother are her talking about little kittens, recalling her episode with the kittens that....died in her room. And then Luke and Nell (and Abigail) go to have a tea party in the Red Room where Olivia tries to kill them. And then she dies by trying to "wake up" and tossing herself off off the balcony. Damn. I honestly thought that Hugh killed her, but it doesn't seem that way. And when she dies, we get a flashback to them first entering the house. Damn.

[JenE4]

When Mrs Dudley—who lives in the woods—said she has a daughter the twins’ age that she won’t let step foot in her house and then Abigail and Luke woke up saying her mom would be mad, I realized then that she was their child! We just assumed the little girl in the woods was a ghost plus we saw her in the house as a ghost in the future. But she was real all along! No one else but Luke saw her, so they just thought she was his imaginary friend—which made her seem like a ghost if no one else saw her. But she was just afraid of getting in trouble and never came closer than the edge of the woods. Odd that Mr and Mrs Dudley wouldn’t have mentioned her name, but plot line...and also plausible that if she was that scared of the house, she wouldn’t want “it” knowing her child’s name.

Did Luke and Nell never realize their mother killed Abigail? I get at 6 they wouldn’t have understood but as they got older in retrospect? Maybe they blocked it out since they keep asking Hugh what happened. I can understand why Hugh wouldn’t want to tell the kids that their mother was trying to kill them, but I also don’t really understand the “relationship” he still has with her ghost. (Yet they did explain that last week that they had a good marriage, aside from those last few days.)

Although the house convinced Olivia that she was saving them. And, maybe in a way, she was. She saw the horrors that befell them, and she could keep them young and innocent and happy forever. The world did turn out to be a dark and dangerous place without her that chewed them up and killed them. I liked how the time dimension thing went both ways—she saw their futures, too. (Which means Luke ODs in the house or survives Poppy grabbing him but ultimately ODs anyway??)

ETA: Who else was sorely disappointed by the red room? That was it—a table, chairs, and mold? Maybe it manifests what it needs to be to control Olivia (and others’) dreams, so it needed a table for the tea party.? But in that case I would have expected it to at least be done up in some fancy Victorian tea party decor—tablecloths and doilies and whatnot. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by JenE4

[jmonique]

On 10/27/2018 at 9:27 PM, JenE4 said:

ETA: Who else was sorely disappointed by the red room? That was it—a table, chairs, and mold? Maybe it manifests what it needs to be to control Olivia (and others’) dreams, so it needed a table for the tea party.? But in that case I would have expected it to at least be done up in some fancy Victorian tea party decor—tablecloths and doilies and whatnot. 

It made me wonder if the Red Room could perhaps only glamour (for lack of a better term) into the ideal room for one person at a time. We got to see it how it really was during the tea party because there were too many people/conflicting ideals for the room to settle on a presentation.
Although I still ain't buying that it fooled people into thinking IT WAS A TREEHOUSE.

[wrlord]

I don't understand the confusion. Abigail was clearly the living Dudley girl. We were supposed to think in earlier episodes that she was a ghost, but of course she wasn't.  

Anyway... as a parent of young children (twins, no less), I found this episode horrifying. They really depicted so very well the nearly manic obsession I feel with keeping my kids happy and safe, keeping their world utterly perfect.  That's not the real world, of course, but that's the world I want them to have and to hold onto for just as long as they can.  The depiction of the mother here is the closest I've seen to a dramatization of that feeling.  And the way that worked out - that not only was it out of her control, but that it actually led to her destruction of a child....

horrible.

[JBC344]

11 hours ago, wrlord said:

I don't understand the confusion. Abigail was clearly the living Dudley girl. We were supposed to think in earlier episodes that she was a ghost, but of course she wasn't.  

Anyway... as a parent of young children (twins, no less), I found this episode horrifying. They really depicted so very well the nearly manic obsession I feel with keeping my kids happy and safe, keeping their world utterly perfect.  That's not the real world, of course, but that's the world I want them to have and to hold onto for just as long as they can.  The depiction of the mother here is the closest I've seen to a dramatization of that feeling.  And the way that worked out - that not only was it out of her control, but that it actually led to her destruction of a child....

horrible.

The confusion lies in the certain "plot holes" and just general reasoning. The start of the episode I called that Abigail was the Dudley girl but there are still holes in the story.

First of all, with everything we know of Mrs. Dudley, does it really seem plausible that Abigail could sneak out for a sleep over?  Maybe with Luke telling us that she is very sneaky.  Wouldn't Hugh in realizing that Abigail was in fact a real person, contact her parents, especially with finding out she is the Dudley daughter and confirm her sleeping over?

Even if we believe that Abigail snuck in without any parental knowledge of Hugh or the Dudley's, is it still plausible that Mrs. Dudley would still be the caretaker after all these years after loosing two children in connection with the house?  Unless the next episode reveals that the Dudley's get to visit with their dead child/children it seems implausible they would still live/work there.

There is also the scene of the older woman taking Abigail by the hand as if she had a specific connection with her when she transferred over, I can see how a lot of people would assume Abigail was the "dead daughter" spoken of earlier.  Whether she is Poppy's child or not.

[Peanut6711]

On 10/14/2018 at 12:16 AM, jmonique said:

I started my first topic here to say: I can't believe these child actors' parents REALLY let their kids take these jobs and say these lines. Those were some creepy-ass lines from the kids playing the young twins.

While their lines were indeed creepy, it's possible they didn't realize the full context/impact. They likely don't know the full story line either.  The little boy who played Danny in The Shining has said in various interviews as an adult that he didn't realize they were filming a horror movie. It was more just fun and games, running around the set, etc.  Given child actor laws, I'm sure there are people on set to make sure the kids aren't traumatized. 

 

On 10/27/2018 at 10:27 PM, JenE4 said:

ETA: Who else was sorely disappointed by the red room? That was it—a table, chairs, and mold? Maybe it manifests what it needs to be to control Olivia (and others’) dreams, so it needed a table for the tea party.? But in that case I would have expected it to at least be done up in some fancy Victorian tea party decor—tablecloths and doilies and whatnot. 

I'll raise my hand; I thought it was missing a big reveal moment too. It's been built up so much and then fizzled a bit.  In fact, I'll say that hubs and I found this episode to be the weakest link. While the past reveal was necessary, there was a bit too much repeat scenes. Some things we either already knew or had been foreshadowed a little too hard.  Filling in the missing pieces was fine, but I must say I missed the "present" in this episode and feel it needed a moment or two of the adult kids for balance or simply impact, aside from Olivia's little "trip" to the future funeral home which admittedly was both a surprise and a head scratching moment. 

[Sakura12]

I always wonder where they manage to find creepy looking kids for horror stuff, Abigail was creepy before Olivia killed. her. 

Quote

aside from Olivia's little "trip" to the future funeral home which admittedly was both a surprise and a head scratching moment.

Since Nell was seeing her future dead self since she was 6, they've kind established that house is some kind of timey whimey bubble. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Sakura12

[Paloma]

On 10/19/2018 at 5:51 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

On 10/14/2018 at 11:04 PM, yourdreamer said:

Who exactly is Abigail? Thought she might have been the Dudley child. But that seems a little wrong. 

 

On 10/18/2018 at 9:50 PM, Megan said:

That's what I thought too. Then she walked off with that 1930's lady I didn't recognize.

Didn't Mr. Dudley say that his mother had died after bouts of erratic behaviour caused by the house? If Abigail is the Dudley child, that woman could have been her grandmother. I agree it is confusing. If she's real (died from poisoning, so probably not a ghost?) she MUST be the Dudley child. But if she is the Dudley child, who's never set foot in Hill House before, then how does she already have a ghostly caregiver she seems to know?

I thought I heard someone (Mr. or Mrs. Dudley, or maybe even the old lady ghost or Poppy ghost) tell Hugh or Olivia about someone dying from poisoning, but I can't remember who they were talking about. If it was a child, I don't think it could have been Abigail because at the time this was mentioned Abigail (the one Olivia killed at the tea party) was still alive--unless tea-party Abigail was a ghost. Trying to figure this out is making my head hurt! I hope we find out in the last episode. 

[CaseYesaC]

The ghost that greets newly dead Abigail and walks her out of the Red Room is young Hazel. Mrs. Dudley shows Nell a picture of Jacquelyn (the owner of the cup of stars) and her mother (Hazel) in episode 5. 

[Jax7917]

Can someone explain to me 2 things . 
1) Why was Nell seeing herself dying since she was little in the form of the bent neck lady ? Was her fate always to die young regardless of if she lived in hill house or not and the house was just haunting her with it ? Or did the house kill her ? If so , why only Nell and not the others ? 
2) Was Olivia mentally ill before living in the house and by living there , it made it so much worse with poppy following her around manipulating her ? Or was she fine before living in the house ? 

[Aliferously]

I rewound the Poppy monologue like five times, it was so good. I am bizarrely obsessed because I know the actress appears in Bly Manor too and she really I don't know, beguiled me like crazy.

She wasn't all that scary when it got into the swing of things, really. Just stuck there too, and apparently dying didn't cure the crazy so she has that heaped on top. I was amused the the granny ghost just basically went back to bed and tattle taled to Olivia. Yeah.

That suicide scene just broke me. Ugh.

Oh, Abigail. My heart shattered when I realised she hadn't been a ghost after all and then she died and became one anyway.

I know I'm royally late finishing this but I just can't with my emotions.