S37: Mike White

[Netta Leven]

Hi.  I'm best known for writing the movie School of Rock and for appearing on the fourteenth and eighteenth seasons of TAR with my father, Mel (and finished sixth in the former season and a measly tenth in the latter).

He is the third former racer to come on Survivor (as Natalie & Nadiya from TAR21 and TAR24 were the first two).  It'll be interesting to see how he deals with this show.  And on another note, I wonder if Mel is still with us?  He was fairly up there in years during their TAR seasons.

[LadyChatts]

Didn't like him on TAR, so we'll see if my opinion has changed here.

I believe his father is still alive.  There's only two racers I can think of that passed away (both from season 1).

[KimberStormer]

Mr. Schneebly?  I've still never seen TAR so no opinion really but it's hard for me to imagine him on the island.

[BK1978]

I cannot recall if I liked or disliked him on TAR.  So he has a clean slate with me.  I just do not think he will be cut out for Survivor, though I have said that in the past and have been proven wrong.

[LadyChatts]

On 9/6/2018 at 11:45 PM, Tasha Brand said:

Five racers have died -- Margaretta from TAR1, Nancy from TAR1, Renee from TAR8 (the Family Edition), Bill (of Bill & Cathi) from TAR19, and Sheila from TAR21.

Getting back to Mike, though, I always remembered him as being very supportive to Mel in their first TAR season, even in spite of his limitations.  He was constantly trying to stay optimistic, which was a good counter to his father's self-defeating attitude whenever he messed up a task.  That's why it was such a surprise to me when, in their second season, their attitudes were completely flipped around, and Mel was the optimistic one and Mike the self-defeating one.

I hope the Mike we get here is closer to his TAR14 incarnation than his TAR18 incarnation.

Thanks!  I thought I was missing someone (I forgot about Renee), but I had no idea Bill or Sheila died!  Also, I remembered that Joni from TAR9 died within the last year or so (she competed with her sister Lisa).  So there's been 6 race deaths.

I think my negative impression of Mike definitely comes from TAR18 more than TAR14, but I still wasn't a big fan of him or his father in either season.  Then again both seasons for me aren't exactly my favorite TAR seasons as it is, so there's that.  I do wonder if Mike's celebrity will give him an advantage.  Knowing how he struggled during TAR18 I have a hard time seeing him rough it, by today's Survivor's standards anyway, but if people recognize him then that might benefit him regardless of how weak he is.  It's funny that he looks more like a David, yet here he's a Goliath, which I guess on paper makes sense.  But it also shows how ridiculous these themes are when trying to categorize people.

[marys1000]

In a recent interview Probst gives Mike credit for Probst deciding at the last minute not to do Redemption Island again (forget which season).  Maybe not besties but dinner guest friends.  Mike def seems a pretty big Survivor fan. 

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, marys1000 said:

In a recent interview Probst gives Mike credit for Probst deciding at the last minute not to do Redemption Island again (forget which season).  Maybe not besties but dinner guest friends.  Mike def seems a pretty big Survivor fan. 

In that case, I think we all owe Mike a great big thanks.

[enchantingmonkey]

Ohhhh, he created and starred in the HBO series Enlightened, in which Laura Dern played the wonderfully cringe-worthy Amy Jellicoe.  It will be weird to see him out on the island.  

[BK1978]

5 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

It will be weird to see him out on the island.  

When they showed him during the preview that aired during the final episode of Survivor last season, I said to myself, "Wait a minute is that?  No...it can't be."  I know him from TAR so I probably should not have been shocked to see him pop up on Survivor (I would have been less shocked if he had shown up on Celebrity Big Brother) but still it just seems weird to me that he is on the show.

[marys1000]

I enjoy listening to his comments so I hope he sticks around awhile.  He seems to have a good attitude.  Like he is playing but also just trying to live in the moment and enjoy being there, playing.  Of course he doesn't need the million which probably helps.  

[Special K]

On 9/15/2018 at 5:35 PM, enchantingmonkey said:

Ohhhh, he created and starred in the HBO series Enlightened, in which Laura Dern played the wonderfully cringe-worthy Amy Jellicoe.  It will be weird to see him out on the island.  

I thought I was the only one who loved this show.  So sad it got cancelled.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Brad's Status is good also.  I can't believe he wrote The Good Girl too!  He's so prolific.

[marys1000]

Was disappointed in Mike.  'oh I love Jeremy and we are close, but not close enough to fight for him (I mean how much would it have taken to keep everyone focused on Natalie?  Why did Angelina get her way so easily?)  How much would I fight for an alliance member and friend like Mike?  Not much.  

Elizabeth showed how its done Mike. 

[marys1000]

Natalie was a pretty easy alternative.  I don't think it would have been that hard to keep people with her.  

[MisterBluxom]

I keep getting more and more angry about Mike the more I read what some of you have posted in the thread for Episode 8 (where John is voted out). I have been sitting on some info that I will now share with you about Mike White.

One of the first movies he made in 2000 was called "Chuck and Buck". He wrote and starred in this movie.

Some of you will strongly disagree with me. But I think this movie demonstrated a lot about his character.

If you want to confirm just how big an asshole he really is, all you have to do is Fast Forward that movie until you are almost at the very end. I think it was the very last line spoken in that film (written by Mike White) or was very close to that.  He wrote a line that IMHO was needlessly offensive and designed to shock the audience. I think there was a lot more to it than that and I found it to be pretty disgusting and offensive because it seemed to me it was written primarily for "shock effect". I can see that I'm having a very difficult time trying to explain my feelings about the line spoken in the movie.

I can only suggest you get a copy of this movie and see for yourself. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to post the line here in this forum. But maybe someone else here will feel that it's not a problem to post it here in this thread.

I promise you that no matter how you may feel about this particular line of dialogue he wrote, you will never forget it.

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissBluxom

[LadyChatts]

I didn't like Mike at all during his two stints on TAR.  I now hate myself for actually rooting for him this season, because tonight's episode proved why I disliked him in the first place.  Maybe his real issue with Christian is he can't take the fact that there's another lovable, nerdier, smarter, more sociable player out there.  I don't know what he was thinking jumping ship, because he's likely cemented the fact that he won't win, and where does he stand?  His OG Goliaths were toying with the idea of voting him off first because he was off by himself idol hunting.  

[MisterBluxom]

Here is a link to a Wikipedia article explaining a little more about the movie "Chuck & Buck". It doesn't contain the exact offensive line of dialogue but it does offer a clue as to what to expect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_%26_Buck

[30 Helens]

oops, wrong thread. Post moved to episode talk.

Edited November 15, 2018 by 30 Helens

[marys1000]

Havent checked out the movie thing but just wanted to comment on his game play

  He started out as farly level headed and stable  then all his moves have been sort of fear based, now we seem to veering into paranoria and the tgt seems to shift around.   He is way to deep in his head or something

  The island seems to be effecting him psychologically

Edited November 15, 2018 by marys1000

[Special K]

11 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Maybe his real issue with Christian is he can't take the fact that there's another lovable, nerdier, smarter, more sociable player out there. 

When he said "Christian is as smart as I am" I almost spit my wine.  The delusion!

[Jextella]

4 minutes ago, Special K said:

When he said "Christian is as smart as I am" I almost spit my wine.  The delusion!

That was a poor choice of words and I had the same reaction.  There are different kinds of smarts.  Mike will never be a rocket scientist, but as far as gameplay goes, they might not be too far away from each other. 

[Rachel RSL]

12 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Here is a link to a Wikipedia article explaining a little more about the movie "Chuck & Buck". It doesn't contain the exact offensive line of dialogue but it does offer a clue as to what to expect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_%26_Buck

I'm not going to go watch a movie. Could you please tell us what was so offensive instead of posting about how offended we'd be if we watched the movie? Thanks.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Rachel RSL
Tone sounded a bit too bitchy. Oops.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

I'm not going to go watch a movie. Could you please tell us what was so offensive instead of posting about how offended we'd be if we watched the movie? Thanks.

I understand the way you feel. But as I said above:

"I don't think it would be appropriate for me to post the line here in this forum. But maybe someone else here will feel that it's not a problem to post it here in this thread."

You wouldn't want me to post it against my will and then later regret doing that. Would you?

[MissEwa]

12 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I understand the way you feel. But as I said above:

"I don't think it would be appropriate for me to post the line here in this forum. But maybe someone else here will feel that it's not a problem to post it here in this thread."

You wouldn't want me to post it against my will and then later regret doing that. Would you?

Respectfully... then why mention it at all? 

I was bored last night so I read the wiki page and the rotten tomato listing and the only clues as to what to expect revolve around the fact that the character is... gay and in love with his childhood best friend? None of which is problematic to me? 

Also I'm not a fan of Mike's at all but he's an actor and a writer. I'm a writer and sometimes I make my characters say all sorts of heinous stuff. It's writing. It's not *me* saying how *I* feel or what *I* think. From what I could tell from the reviews this movie was supposed to be an unsettling black comedy and it looks like it worked, but - without knowing what was said - I can't see how it's evidence that Mike is somehow awful. 

[MisterBluxom]

27 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

Respectfully... then why mention it at all? 

I was bored last night so I read the wiki page and the rotten tomato listing and the only clues as to what to expect revolve around the fact that the character is... gay and in love with his childhood best friend? None of which is problematic to me? 

Also I'm not a fan of Mike's at all but he's an actor and a writer. I'm a writer and sometimes I make my characters say all sorts of heinous stuff. It's writing. It's not *me* saying how *I* feel or what *I* think. From what I could tell from the reviews this movie was supposed to be an unsettling black comedy and it looks like it worked, but - without knowing what was said - I can't see how it's evidence that Mike is somehow awful. 

I can appreciate what you are saying and I'm beginning to regret ever posting about it in the first place. But I just think it's something that people who are discussing Mike and analyzing his behavior should know.

I'm sorry. But whatever I may decide to do, I absolutely will not post that line of dalogue in this forum because it is outside my comfort level. Way outside! I am not comfortable with posting it and I will not do that.

I will tell you the basic plot of the film just to help you when you read about it in Wiki. However if you search for it, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to find.

The basic plot of the movie is that a young man named Chuck is about to be married and there is some time spent on all the pre-wedding stuff with his fiance.

Then a very (very, very) old friend named Buck (played by Mike White) shows up and they spend some time together talking about old times. Most of the time, I seem to recall, they spoke of things that people speak of when they are in grade school.

Finally, Chuck's fiance gets fed up with this very strange friend of her intended's and tells him that Buck has go to go and it's either him or her that will be leaving. (I'm paraphrasing).

Chuck then tells Buck it's time for him to go at which time he utters the line of dialogue that I feel so uncomfortable with posting.

I can't believe it's all that hard for people to find. But I will Google to see if I can find the line. I'm confident it won't be that difficult to find. I found it. Here it is:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0200530/

On the first page of the IMDB site for this film, there is an excellent user review.  They call the line of dialogue I'm worried about, "the creepiest catch phrase of the year (and the one least to be uttered) but the most sardonic and challenging take on the truncated sexual persona.".

There is a sense of dread in Chuck & Buck that is near chilling. This isn't a gross exaggeration because there is a scene in the film between Buck and a young boy that is so twisted and misleading that one is forced to wonder if the scene is an outtake from Solandz' Happiness. From the film's oddly addictive theme song to colorful performances, Chuck & Buck not only harbors the creepiest catch phrase of the year (and the one least to be uttered) but the most sardonic and challenging take on the truncated sexual persona.

ETA: It was extremely easy to find. If you look up the movie on the IMDB site (Chuck & Buck 2000), there is a page called "Quotes". There are many quotes from the movie. It's the first one quoted.

Here are some excerpts:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0200530/quotes

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Rachel RSL]

Or.....you could just tell us.

Regardless of what the line is, it won't change my opinion of Mike.  He's a writer.  Just because someone writes something for a movie or play, that doesn't mean that's how they actually are. It's fiction.  And I really can't imagine that this line is as offensive as you're making it out to be.

ETA: Yeah, none of those quotes are offensive to me or make me think he's an awful person.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Rachel RSL

[MissEwa]

Ok, I bit.

Are we talking about 'Suck and f*ck'?

Because that's not offensive, unless someone is offended because it was a guy saying it to another guy, which... 

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissEwa
grammar

[Rachel RSL]

Exactly. And I certainly don't see how that line is proof that he's racist.

[MisterBluxom]

7 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

Ok, I bit.

Are we talking about 'Suck and f*ck'?

Because that's not offensive, unless someone is offended because it was a guy saying it to another guy, which... 

OK. Well, I guess I'm forced to admit that I'm just more prudish than you are.

And having said that, I've now said all I have to say on this subject.

[Jobiska]

Nobody's arguing that the phrase isn't vulgar; I wouldn't type it on a message board either.  Their point, which I agree with, is that even if Mike was responsible for writing the line, he wrote it for a character in what sounds like a rather dark and unsettling story (not because of the gender of any of the characters in relationships, but because of the triangles and what sounds like some emotional headgames--I too am basing my comments on the synopses, not having watched it).  Generally writers like to explore compelling storylines, and most actors like to rise to the challenge of acting them out; it doesn't mean that they subscribe to those values or possess those traits.  

Sure, I can get why it's distasteful to you--but not why it indicates anything about Mike White's personality or values.  Especially not to the degree you've implied.  

[303420]

I was disappointed in what could well be called a full meltdown on Mike's part. Good lord, He's sitting pretty in the majority alliance with a strong cross-tribal sub-alliance that he can figure out what to do with later. If he decided it was too risky to drop Angelina as a number, then he should have targeted a David not in his sub-alliance.

I feel like that was a very Ned Schneebly move.

[JudyObscure]

I'm mainly surprised that Mike hasn't caught on to just how close Christian and Gabby are.  If we can see that at home there must be lots of little moments between the two around camp, my gosh they can't pass each other without brushing shoulders the way friendly dogs do. It seemed like a major blunder for him to be saying anything negative about Gabby to Christian.  Mike also seemed to only see the surface level of Carl and Davie's friendship.  Yes, the two have fun together and both have easy going personalities, but to assume they weren't seriously strategizing when they were alone was very naïve.  I guess I expected a writer to be able to see the nuances a little better.

[MissEwa]

2 hours ago, Jobiska said:

Nobody's arguing that the phrase isn't vulgar 

Yes - sorry. When I said it wasn't offensive I more meant it wasn't racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic or in some other way indicative of his general character. It's vulgar in a generic frat-boy type way. If someone said it in a conversation at work or something I'd probably be a little shocked and wonder at their grasp of boundaries (unless it was used to harrass or threaten, obviously) but if it was as part of a trashy drunken conversation I'd roll my eyes and not much more. Obviously MMV.  

I don't like Mike but I don't like him any less because he wrote a crude line for a movie that - from the synposis - is supposed to be unsettling and shocking.

[Fake Jan Brady]

Firstly, I realise art appreciation is incredibly subjective but I just wanted to say that Chuck and Buck is a low budget gem and a great examination of arrested development. Well worth watching, especially for the passive-aggressive subtext of the play within the movie 'Hank and Frank'.  Plus Mike co-created and wrote Enlightened, one of the greatest, under appreciated shows of all time.

Anyhoo, back on topic: oh Mike, I was rooting for you. I know writers' have to consider every possible outcome in a storyline but you overthought this scenario big time. RIP StrikeForce.

[MisterBluxom]

After much consideration, I once again feel the need to apologize to the members of this forum for calling Mike White names because I didn't like the film he wrote and (mostly) because I didn't understand it.  Specifically, I never understood the entertaining aspects of that film and I still don't.  But I do understand that failing to understand a work of art that someone has created is a terrible reason to attack them.

So I want to make another attempt at an apology because I never really previously understood the problem and I was just giving "lip service" to my previous apology. I think knew it could not be genuine because I never really understood why I was in the wrong.  But I was clearly wrong.

I was very offended when I saw Chuck & Buck, For some ridiculous reason, I took it completely personally and I wrongly associated Mike White with the actions of the characters he wrote. I finally began to see the truth when I tried to understand how I could be so offended by Chuck & Buck while at the same time believing School of Rock was such an enormous comedic triumph. Could it be true that my own personal development in artistic appreciation had been halted around age 12?  Both films were written by Mike White.  So the odds were high that I was the one with the problem - not him.

The point was made very clear by several people in this forum and I think I'm finally close to understanding that.  I was definitely in the wrong about calling Mike an "asshole" based on the actions of a character he wrote.

I still don't understand why some people feel that film was such a great work of art and I must not understand art well enough to think I can act like an art critic. For example, I tried to watch several episodes of "Enlightened" (the TV show Mike wrote for Laura Dern) Every episode of that show just went right over my head. I couldn't appreciate anything about it. Several people have stated it was a great work of act and a real shame that it was never appreciated by the public. According to them, there was a lot to appreciate about that show. But every episode just left me mystified. I didn't "get it" at all.

However, I do know that when I don't understand something, engaging in name-calling is clearly not a valid response.  So. I need to be clear.  I'm sorry and I am embarrassed at having done that and I sincerely do apologize. Specifically to Rachel RSL and Miss Ewa as well as anyone else I may have offended.  I'm sorry.

Edited November 21, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Rachel RSL]

I wasn't offended. Just engaging in conversation and polite debate, which is what this forum is for :)

[MisterBluxom]

27 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I wasn't offended. Just engaging in conversation and polite debate, which is what this forum is for :)

OK. Either way, I want to thank you because I learned something about myself and it was a valuable lesson.

[MissEwa]

 Not offended either - if anything, I've learned that I am maybe someone harder to offend than many. I'm glad you've taken a lesson from it but no apology necessary :)

[MisterBluxom]

Oh my. I feel like crying now. You two sure are two swell ladies. *big smile*

[Jobiska]

Same--no offense--and just because I defended the artistic integrity/separation from the character of White as a creator and actor, doesn't mean that film is high on my list of things to see.  Certainly not when recordings of Survivor are available, ha!  Reactions to art are subjective, and that's as it should be.  But here I'm going to judge White as a player of Survivor, not on other things he's done!  

[RescueMom]

I don’t know how I didn’t put this together until now, but Mike White wrote and directed Year of the Dog, which is one of the few movies out there about dog rescue. It is heartbreaking and wonderful. I was souring on him a bit due to the Goliath Strong stuff, but now I  am going to get warm fuzzies every time I see him on screen :) 

[Jextella]

Here's a really great video of Mike.    It made me like him more than I did (same with Carl). 

[Bryce Lynch]

Mike sounded drunk (said he was hung over) and was pretty obnoxious on his RHAP exit interview.  He kept berating Rob for poking fun about him on his podcasts about the Emoji Movie.   

[Bryce Lynch]

Ha!  Rob did a great impression of Mike White on the finale recap podcast with Bret LaBelle.  Bret has frequently complained about how horrible the Survivor pizza is, so Rob pretended to be "Michaelangelo" who works for Survivor and makes the pizza.  He sounded just like Mike White drunkenly whining about Rob making fun of the Emoji Movie.  

[marys1000]

A pretty good exit interview.  I've read several.  I wish I wasn't getting this small "I probably could have won if I wanted to" vibe from some of Mikes interviews (not this one so much but some of them).  It does make me wonder how he actually felt about people, idk.

https://parade.com/726295/mikebloom/survivor-david-vs-goliath-mike-white-pitches-the-script-of-his-survivor-story/

Edited December 25, 2018 by marys1000