S04.E03 Something Beautiful

[Bryce Lynch]

25 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, Mesa Verde has "overly rapid business expansion leads to disaster" written all over it, and I think Kim sees it as well, especially as she tries to envision all the regulatory compliance work being done by just her and her paralegal.

In hindsight we know that a major bank expansion circa 2003 probably won't seem like a great idea by 2008.  

It is hard to read exactly what Kim is feeling, but I think she is feeling guilty about Chuck, (she seemed shaken when Kevin mentioned him) overwhelmed (and perhaps in over her head) by all the work in front of her, and maybe thinking that HHM was really the right firm to handle MV, and that if she had just taken the job at S&C, Chuck would still be alive, Jimmy would still have his law license and everyone would be happier.   

I think she might find all the bank expansion work to be unsatisfying.  She had previously mocked the importance of turning a small regional bank into a mid-sized regional bank, at it's not exactly Atticus Finch type legal work.  

Some have speculated that finding out they were expanding to Nebraska might have spooked her because she might have a criminal background there, and that she stopped at the courthouse to find out.  But, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I am pretty sure the NM bar could access nationwide criminal convictions, and I doubt the ABQ courthouse would have any access to such records that the NM bar didn't already have.  

[Bryce Lynch]

27 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Now I have got that old Monkee's song, "Pleasant Valley Sunday" going through my head.  Great tune, great memories.

Where are Sherman and Mr. Peabody when I need them?

I am sure Chuck is the type of dude to get the last word, the last dig.  I still think Hamlin came up with the letter, and that Chuck had nothing to do with it.

I am 99% sure Chuck wrote the letter.  Hamlin was not even in the frame of mind to write Jimmy a fake letter from Chuck before he gave it to Kim.   Also, it would be pointless and extraordinarily unethical for him to do so.

There is a small chance that Kim replaced the letter with one she wrote, but I highly doubt it.  It is also possible Jimmy edited it as he read it to Kim, but he didn't seem to care enough to do so.

I thought it was totally consistent with how Chuck would have felt, when Jimmy was working in the HHM mail room, which is apparently when it was written. 

I thought the part where he told Jimmy how he brought a shine to his mother's face, that nothing else did, made sense, too.

After their mother died, just after crying out for Jimmy, who was away getting a sandwich, Chuck lied to Jimmy and told him she didn't say anything before she died.  I thought he had both noble and ignoble reasons.  He didn't want to needlessly burden Jimmy with the guilt of not being there as she cried out for him, but he also didn't want to give Jimmy the satisfaction of knowing "Mom loved him best."

The letter seems like an attempt to share the positive part about how much their Mom loved Jimmy, without revealing the part that would make him feel guilty.  I think Chuck probably figured that once he was dead, it wouldn't bother him that Mom loved Jimmy more (at least in Chuck's eyes), so it was OK for Jimmy to know it.  

[Bryce Lynch]

38 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Chuck was a lawyer, IMO it would be very unlikely for him to not keep his documents updated.  I can't envision him not having a gigantic departing FU letter for Jimmy to read.

I suppose it is possible that this could be an older vision of the letter and that Hamlin destroyed all of the newer versions.

The letter is different from a legal document.  Chuck gave Jimmy is "FU" speech before he died.  Plus, given how his relationship with Hamlin had gone bad and the he thought he was getting better, just before he relapsed and died, he might not have thought to write a new letter to Jimmy.  He also might have wanted Jimmy to know how he felt years earlier, before Jimmy became a lawyer and their sibling rivalry escalated out of control.   

[JudyObscure]

8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I thought the part where he told Jimmy how he brought a shine to his mother's face, that nothing else did, made sense, too.

After their mother died, just after crying out for Jimmy, who was away getting a sandwich, Chuck lied to Jimmy and told him she didn't say anything before she died.  I thought he had both noble and ignoble reasons.  He didn't want to needlessly burden Jimmy with the guilt of not being there as she cried out for him, but he also didn't want to give Jimmy the satisfaction of knowing "Mom loved him best."

The letter seems like an attempt to share the positive part about how much their Mom loved Jimmy, without revealing the part that would make him feel guilty.  I think Chuck probably figured that once he was dead, it wouldn't bother him that Mom loved Jimmy more (at least in Chuck's eyes), so it was OK for Jimmy to know it

I agree.  I never saw Chuck as all bad, just somehow sunk into a pathological  case of sibling rivalry.  I would definitely not want to know that my mother died calling for me because I was too hungry, or nicotine deprived, or antsy to sit vigil all day.  Jimmy already knew his mother liked him best, there was never any question in anyone's mind about that, it was just another hurtful blow to Chuck.

[attica]

The content of the letter doesn't match, imo, the FU bequest. Chuck was NOT the kind of dude not to update his 'in the event of my death' documents as he updated his will, I don't think. 

In what is neither news nor surprising, Kim is too good for Jimmy.

Gale is like a shiny penny. I love him.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, attica said:

The content of the letter doesn't match, imo, the FU bequest. Chuck was NOT the kind of dude not to update his 'in the event of my death' documents as he updated his will, I don't think. 

In what is neither news nor surprising, Kim is too good for Jimmy.

Gale is like a shiny penny. I love him.

I could see either:

a) Chuck updated his will after his falling out with Jimmy, but did not update the letter.

or

b) Chuck wrote the will before Jimmy helped him so much through his "illness" and the $5,000 was just a modest inheritance, not a FU amount to keep him from contesting the will.  He  wanted Rebecca and the charities to get most of his money all along.   

I tend to think a) is more likely.   

[peeayebee]

10 hours ago, Tighthead said:

Anyone catch the hook in the pizza order? “Yes, sliced”. 

Ha! I missed that. Good catch.

 

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

Kim is feeling ovetwhelmed, in the midst of her grief/guilt, by Kevin's full throttle expansion plans, which is just too many hours for her and a paralegal. I feel more than ever that her labor shortage crisis is going to drive her back to a law firm with a revenue shortage crisis, one HHM.

I don't know why I didn't pick up on her feeling overwhelmed as she looked at the models and heard about the expansion. I was stuck on the idea that what Kevin was doing was wrong in a legal or ethical sense. I was overthinking it.

 

2 hours ago, Sarah D. Bunting said:

Sepinwall also notes that another critic mentioned the possibility of Jimmy editing as he went along, to spare Kim what Chuck really had to say, which hadn't occurred to me. The more I think about it, the more I agree that, if you only look at that last scene, it's probably Chuck wrote the letter back in the day, when he could still feel expansively, patronizingly superior to Jimmy...

I read that review, too, and I agree with Sepinwall that it feels more true emotionally for that letter to be genuine -- truer for Kim's reaction, truer for Jimmy's, and truer for Chuck's.

As other's said, I imagine that Chuck wrote that when Jimmy was still in the mailroom. Maybe he planned on giving it to him that day, but then Jimmy told him about getting his law degree. Chuck's resentment consumed his feelings of magnanimity, and he put the letter away. 

I can't imagine Kim forging it and including the bit about Jimmy's mother's reaction to this new baby. That line about Chuck seeing his mom shining at the sight of baby Jimmy is too complex for someone other than Chuck to come up with. It's complimentary to Jimmy while also revealing the birth of Chuck's resentment. The letter so beautifully encapsulates Chuck's desires to look like the bigger man, to praise when it costs him nothing, all while subtly showing his sense of superiority and his pique about being second in his mother's heart.

[Bannon]

26 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree.  I never saw Chuck as all bad, just somehow sunk into a pathological  case of sibling rivalry.  I would definitely not want to know that my mother died calling for me because I was too hungry, or nicotine deprived, or antsy to sit vigil all day.  Jimmy already knew his mother liked him best, there was never any question in anyone's mind about that, it was just another hurtful blow to Chuck.

Of course Chuck wasn't all bad. He was a brilliant lawyer, for the most part ethically sound, and was likely a good employer before his phobia became acute. Rebecca seemed to retain a lot of affection for him, so he likely was a good husband in many respects. His issues went a lot deeper than sibling rivalry, however,  or perhaps pathological sibling rivalty doesn't do justice to how compelled he was to control every person around him, or how filled with rage he was. I really think his phobia was mostly a subconsciously employed tool to control people, although I can't remember if it manifested itself before Rebecca seperated from him. Perhaps it was a tool he employed subconsciously to get Rebecca back, along with controlling Howard and Jimmy, and it just didn't work with Rebecca. it is interesting that once the phobia became counterproductive to controlling people, after the Bar Association hearing, Chuck became responsive to treatment  and his condition improved..

Jimmy's failure to address the problem head-on, and have Chuck temporarily committed, may have led to all these terrible events. A Chuck who was committed may have rapidly managed his phobia, and then have rejoined society as a mentally healthy person, able to fully participate.

These writers never let any character off the hook.

[Dev F]

20 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I can't imagine Kim forging it and including the bit about Jimmy's mother's reaction to this new baby. That line about Chuck seeing his mom shining at the sight of baby Jimmy is too complex for someone other than Chuck to come up with. It's complimentary to Jimmy while also revealing the birth of Chuck's resentment. The letter so beautifully encapsulates Chuck's desires to look like the bigger man, to praise when it costs him nothing, all while subtly showing his sense of superiority and his pique about being second in his mother's heart.

Ayep. And just from a practical perspective, how could Kim, or any other potential forger, be certain that a recollection that specific was accurate to what Jimmy already knew? All there'd have to be is, say, a family story about how Chuck first met his baby brother in the hospital and the whole thing is exposed as a fake.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP on the episode!

 

Better Call Saul Gets Messages From Beyond The Grave

Jimmy reads Chuck's letter, Gus sends a dispatch via 'crime' 'scene,' and the dead of Breaking Bad live again in our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of S04.E03.

[nodorothyparker]

It never occurred to me until I read the theorizing here that anyone would think Chuck didn't write the letter.  It's obviously a relic from the time Chuck had Jimmy safely embedded in the HHM mailroom in "his place" and probably felt he could afford to be generically magnanimous.  It struck me as very much the sort of thing Chuck probably would have thought he should write to his ne'er-do-well little brother now that he had him contained.  We know they got along well enough in that manner until Jimmy blindsided him with the news that he'd passed the bar and also considered himself a legitimate lawyer now.  My question instead was how old was the will then?  Have both documents remained unchanged for years with Chuck's intentions always to have been to cut Jimmy out, which to be fair was his right?  It's possible he updated one but not the other, but there's always been an unspoken element of classism at play in the Jimmy vs. Chuck story on top of all their other issues.  I have no trouble imagining that Chuck might have thought Jimmy would only squander a large amount or use it in something Chuck would have considered Slippin' Jimmy level of unsavory.

Jimmy's breezy indifference to it didn't really surprise me either.  As inappropriate as Howard's blubbering about his culpability was, it provided a ready explanation and just enough breathing room for Jimmy to distance himself from it.  Because Howard gave him the final shove, not him.  Outwardly, he seems to be doing okay and has moved on, even if Kim and now Mike think otherwise.  But for Kim, the letter was a painful reminder after however long it's been of a ugly escalating war between the brothers that there was a time when Jimmy genuinely loved Chuck and wanted his approval and he seemed to be getting it.  The Chuck that wrote that letter wasn't debilitated to the point of ripping out his fuse boxes to live like a squatter in his own home while creeping around in public like a Mylar bat.

A lot of Kim's reaction to the Mesa Verde expansion planning likely was about the sheer amount of workload that will be coming her way when she's already in a cast from having overworked herself just to keep up with what she has on her plate now.  It was quietly reminiscent of Chuck immediately blowing up Jimmy's Sandpiper case into a class-action too big for a solo lawyer to handle in that I think she could see that outcome inevitably looming for her while she's working out of her apartment with her one paralegal.  I also noticed, though, that her expression first changed and Kevin's voice faded for her after he mentioned a location for North Platte, Nebraska, and wondered if we were supposed to take it mean anything, given her much earlier vaguely saying she's from the Kansas-Nebraska border.

I did love Mike taking a hard pass on the relatively small potatoes of the Hummel caper and telling Jimmy that he should too.

[shapeshifter]

As a wishy washy person in general, it felt good to be able to like/heart all the letter theories here. 
Both this week's episode thread and last week's have us obsessing over The Letter—as are reviewers elsewhere. Are we making a bigger deal out of it than intended?

10 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

because he wanted to leave a message behind in the event of his death. I don't think its all that unusual a thing, i have letters set aside (and they're more than just "clear my browser history and torch these hard drives")

So should I have written separate letters to each of my adult kids? In spite of their protests whenever I bemoan that I was not a good mother, I really don't know how these things work.

 

The vet was sarcastically kidding when he said Nacho was lucky the cousin had O negative blood, right? He had no clue what either's type was, right?

 

I didn't start watching Breaking Bad until mid-season 3 because I had erroneously assumed it glorified drug dealing. Just in case anyone is still not sure, Nacho's fate just this far lays that misconception to rest. He needs his own narcocorrido (or "drug ballad") which might serve to deter all future gang and cartel membership enrollment. Anyway, the violence was almost too much for me, but it was certainly not just gratutious, so I'll give it a pass.

And poor future Gale. This show is also a cautionary tale for wannabe Libertarians too, isn't it?

Edited August 21, 2018 by shapeshifter

[PotterOtherP]

10 hours ago, acid burn said:

Right? Poor Gale was so enthusiastic about his ability to do a much purer cook. 

Speaking of which, poor Nacho. I hope that sketchy-ass vet at least gave him some beef-flavored ibuprofen with his broad-spectrum antibiotics. 

Gus probably gave him very impure samples on purpose so Gale would be even more tempted to offer his services. I like the way Gus knows just how to talk to Gale. He acts like they are playing a game and sharing a dirty little secret.

[Dev F]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The vet was sarcastically kidding when he said Nacho was lucky the cousin had O negative blood, right? He had no clue what either's type was, right?

No, I think he was being serious. The cousin was giving blood to Nacho, so the vet would've needed some reason to believe it wouldn't just kill the patient. The reason is that he asked the brothers their blood type and the one cousin said his was the universal donor -- hence the doc's comment about how he hoped his Spanish was good enough or Nacho was a goner.

[walnutqueen]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Dads car wash isnt looking so bad now, is it Nacho? Damn, that whole sequence was brutal, even by this franchises standards. 

Hey Gale! Long time no see! And 67%? Even the rednecks from the last season could have made better product! 

I didnt even think of Kim forging the letter, but now I wonder if its possible. But if thats not true, her and Jimmy's reactions were certainly interesting. Jimmy could not give less of a fuck. 

Carwash?  I thought Dad ran an upholstery shop.

Seeing Gale again brought back so many BB memories; from the perfect cup of coffee to the whistling tea kettle.  (Poor Gale, poor Jesse).

I am loving the pacing on this show.  There's an art to letting stories unfold organically, and this has hit all the right notes.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Of course Chuck wasn't all bad. He was a brilliant lawyer, for the most part ethically sound, and was likely a good employer before his phobia became acute. Rebecca seemed to retain a lot of affection for him, so he likely was a good husband in many respects. His issues went a lot deeper than sibling rivalry, however,  or perhaps pathological sibling rivalty doesn't do justice to how compelled he was to control every person around him, or how filled with rage he was. I really think his phobia was mostly a subconsciously employed tool to control people, although I can't remember if it manifested itself before Rebecca seperated from him. Perhaps it was a tool he employed subconsciously to get Rebecca back, along with controlling Howard and Jimmy, and it just didn't work with Rebecca. it is interesting that once the phobia became counterproductive to controlling people, after the Bar Association hearing, Chuck became responsive to treatment  and his condition improved..

Jimmy's failure to address the problem head-on, and have Chuck temporarily committed, may have led to all these terrible events. A Chuck who was committed may have rapidly managed his phobia, and then have rejoined society as a mentally healthy person, able to fully participate.

These writers never let any character off the hook.

The only times exhibited rage were when a) He thought was being bombarded with harmful electricity, which due to his phobia, caused him to feel real, though psychosomatic, pain. b) When Jimmy committed multiple felonies against him and MV and caused him to be publicly humiliated.  c) When Howard pushed him out of the law firm he had built from the ground up.  

We really don't see any examples of Chuck being controlling, before his mental illness.  Even during it, the only real "control" he tried to exercise over Jimmy was to not have him be a lawyer at HHM and to try to prevent him from practicing under the McGill name.   He made no other efforts to stop him from being a lawyer until after the Mesa Verde incident, and by then, Jimmy richly deserved to be disbarred.  

His phobia seemed to begin shortly after Rebecca left and shortly after Jimmy became a lawyer.   In the flashback when Rebecca comes over for dinner and he and Jimmy fool her into thinking the power had be incorrectly shut off for non-payment, Rebecca remarks that she couldn't believe Jimmy had gotten a law degree and passed the bar.  When Jimmy tells Chuck he passed the bar, Chuck is still working at HHM.  So the order is 1) Rebecca leaves 2) Jimmy passes the bar 3) Chuck's phobia starts.

I don't think he was trying to control Rebecca with the phobia, as he went to great lengths to hide it from her and preferred she think he was a total prick for throwing her phone across the room, rather than have her find out about it.  It did seem like he used it (probably mostly subconsciously) to manipulate Jimmy.  

The phobia become counterproductive at the bar hearing (though it already was in many ways), but Jimmy's battery trick also shocked (no pun intended) Chuck and made him reconsider whether the condition was physical or mental.  

I think Chuck's fixation with Jimmy not being a lawyer (or at least not under the McGill name was from a combination of petty sibling jealousy and a genuine (and 100% correct) belief that Jimmy being a lawyer would lead to disaster.   I think Chuck resented that Jimmy could cut corners and get his online law degree and gain the same status, of being an attorney, that Chuck worked so hard to achieve.  But, he also knew his little brother and knew that the temptation of abusing power of being a lawyer would be too great for Slippin' Jimmy to resist.   It would be like if he had a little brother who had been addicted to pain pills for years, and it nearly killed him,  but then he got him cleaned up and gave him a job.   Then after years of being clean, he announces that he has become a licensed pharmacist or palliative care nurse, where he'd have access to those opioids  every day.  

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I did love Mike taking a hard pass on the relatively small potatoes of the Hummel caper and telling Jimmy that he should be too.

Yes, I think it was pretty unlikely he'd be interested; he just got a $10,000 paycheck from Madrigal. 

6 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Carwash?  I thought Dad ran an upholstery shop.

Upholstery shop it is.

[jww]

There has been a lot of speculation on how old Chuck was with guesses ranging from 5 - 10 years older than Jimmy.  If the letter was written when Jimmy was still in the mail room and perhaps in his late 30s meaning Chuck would have been at most in his late 40s when he wrote the letter.  Why would a 48 year old man in good health write a letter worrying about his feelings towards his brother "die with me"?  It is something perhaps a person in his 70s, with  terminal cancer  or about to be shipped overseas to a war would write.

[Bryce Lynch]

35 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I did love Mike taking a hard pass on the relatively small potatoes of the Hummel caper and telling Jimmy that he should be too.

Yes, that was not surprising at all.  It made zero sense for Mike.  That said, I would have loved to see what clever trick Mike would have used to get out of the office undetected.  You know he would not have needed Jimmy's help.   We've seen him use a pig toy, balloons, a shoe, a stolen ID, carbon paper, a duplicate RFID tracker, a remote control car, and a garden hose and a pair of sneakers (am I missing any) to achieve goals or get out of tight spots.   I wonder what he would have used in this spot.  

[Bannon]

13 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The only times exhibited rage were when a) He thought was being bombarded with harmful electricity, which due to his phobia, caused him to feel real, though psychosomatic, pain. b) When Jimmy committed multiple felonies against him and MV and caused him to be publicly humiliated.  c) When Howard pushed him out of the law firm he had built from the ground up.  

We really don't see any examples of Chuck being controlling, before his mental illness.  Even during it, the only real "control" he tried to exercise over Jimmy was to not have him be a lawyer at HHM and to try to prevent him from practicing under the McGill name.   He made no other efforts to stop him from being a lawyer until after the Mesa Verde incident, and by then, Jimmy richly deserved to be disbarred.  

His phobia seemed to begin shortly after Rebecca left and shortly after Jimmy became a lawyer.   In the flashback when Rebecca comes over for dinner and he and Jimmy fool her into thinking the power had be incorrectly shut off for non-payment, Rebecca remarks that she couldn't believe Jimmy had gotten a law degree and passed the bar.  When Jimmy tells Chuck he passed the bar, Chuck is still working at HHM.  So the order is 1) Rebecca leaves 2) Jimmy passes the bar 3) Chuck's phobia starts.

I don't think he was trying to control Rebecca with the phobia, as he went to great lengths to hide it from her and preferred she think he was a total prick for throwing her phone across the room, rather than have her find out about it.  It did seem like he used it (probably mostly subconsciously) to manipulate Jimmy.  

The phobia become counterproductive at the bar hearing (though it already was in many ways), but Jimmy's battery trick also shocked (no pun intended) Chuck and made him reconsider whether the condition was physical or mental.  

I think Chuck's fixation with Jimmy not being a lawyer (or at least not under the McGill name was from a combination of petty sibling jealousy and a genuine (and 100% correct) belief that Jimmy being a lawyer would lead to disaster.   I think Chuck resented that Jimmy could cut corners and get his online law degree and gain the same status, of being an attorney, that Chuck worked so hard to achieve.  But, he also knew his little brother and knew that the temptation of abusing power of being a lawyer would be too great for Slippin' Jimmy to resist.   It would be like if he had a little brother who had been addicted to pain pills for years, and it nearly killed him,  but then he got him cleaned up and gave him a job.   Then after years of being clean, he announces that he has become a licensed pharmacist or palliative care nurse, where he'd have access to those opioids  every day.  

Chuck could have simply left the room, in response to Rebecca's phone causing so much pain. Pretend he has to use the bathroom. Any excuse to simply remove himself from the pain of a cell phone being used, until the call was over. Instead, he flings the phone across the room, in a rage stoked by lack of control, because that is exactly what is happening, and he has merely convinced himself that a cell phone causes him pain, because he doesn't want to admit to himself that he is a rage filled control freak. I would also refer back to the cold opening of Chuck playing the piano, with the metronome accompanying him, as a beautifullly portrayed control freak.

I also think Chuck used his phobia to make Howard dance to his tune many times.

[nodorothyparker]

Mike likely would have had the sense to watch the place for awhile and make sure that it was in fact empty before going in, thus avoiding the whole situation in the first place.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Mike likely would have had the sense to watch the place for awhile and make sure that it was in fact empty before going in, thus avoiding the whole situation in the first place.

Of course, Mike also knows that risking B & E on a speculative 8k Hummel resale is really dumb. Jimmy likely does too (I will be surprised if the Hummel is shown to bring that much),  but he is emotionally unhinged now, and mostly just wants to break rules. That's how Chuck's little brother handles rage and grief.

I now think of Chuck and Jimmy as The Fury Brothers.

[ShadowFacts]

Jimmy needed an accomplice on the Hummel break-in so as to stay out of trouble for a year until his suspension is over, yet ends up breaking into a car.  Pretty risky, there could have been security cameras on adjacent properties.  But he's never exactly been risk-averse. 

[TVFan17]

7 hours ago, calvinshobbes said:

 

  Hide contents

In Breaking Bad, Saul is kidnapped by Walt and Jessie and brought to the desert in the Episode Better call Saul. Saul starts talking fast, pleading for his life and saying  “no, no no, it wasn’t me, It was Ignacio, he’s the one!” 5his implies that Ignacio or Nacho is the one the cartel is looking for.

Yes.     I saw the Breaking Bad episode.     That's exactly why I said that it

Spoiler

(Lalo's appearance on this show)

is probably going to lead to even more trouble for Nacho (in the near future), beyond the trouble he is already in.    

Spoiler

In that specific episode of Breaking Bad, Saul makes it seem as though Lalo (or someone on behalf of Lalo) might be looking for someone (to capture, harm or kill them), and, presumably, that someone is Nacho.  At least that was how I interpreted it.

Nacho is in all kinds of mess, everywhere he turns!

[Bryce Lynch]

31 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Chuck could have simply left the room, in response to Rebecca's phone causing so much pain. Pretend he has to use the bathroom. Any excuse to simply remove himself from the pain of a cell phone being used, until the call was over. Instead, he flings the phone across the room, in a rage stoked by lack of control, because that is exactly what is happening, and he has merely convinced himself that a cell phone causes him pain, because he doesn't want to admit to himself that he is a rage filled control freak. I would also refer back to the cold opening of Chuck playing the piano, with the metronome accompanying him, as a beautifullly portrayed control freak.

I also think Chuck used his phobia to make Howard dance to his tune many times.

The piano scene showed him to be a perfectionist, not a "control freak".  Who is he trying to control there?

He was enraged because his was "in pain" and in a panic over the cell phone.  Sure, he could have just left the room, but that would have been far less dramatic writing and wouldn't have caused Rebecca to leave.  

Again, he didn't try to control Rebecca with his condition, he tried to win her back by hiding it from her.   

I can't really think of any cases where he controlled Howard with his condition.  It seemed more like he would control his condition better (wearing space blanket lined suits to hearings and meetings for example), when he wanted to keep an eye on Jimmy or otherwise manipulate things.

I still see no evidence of him being a control freak prior to his condition.   I guess, you could point out that he forced Jimmy to move to NM with him and take a job from him as a condition of getting him out of the sex crimes charges from the Chicago Sunroof.  But, I think that seems more like tough love.   

45 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Mike likely would have had the sense to watch the place for awhile and make sure that it was in fact empty before going in, thus avoiding the whole situation in the first place.

Yes, but it would be much more fun having him find a clever way, using unorthodox tools, to get out of the situation.  

33 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Jimmy needed an accomplice on the Hummel break-in so as to stay out of trouble for a year until his suspension is over, yet ends up breaking into a car.  Pretty risky, there could have been security cameras on adjacent properties.  But he's never exactly been risk-averse. 

Yeah, not only would he permanently lose his law license, it was stated that if he even got arrested in the next year, the felony charges would be reinstated and they would use his confession to prosecute him.    He probably could have made the $4,000 in a month of salary and commissions selling copiers for Neff.  

[TVFan17]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

My husband got me a really, really expensive vacuum this year and I was delighted.  I guess he should know his wife better, particularly if she only likes shiny things, but now I have a clue as to how all those Hummels ended up at the office.  Gift rejects, probably.

 

When I first heard the word "vacuum" mentioned in this episode, I thought we were going to hear the guy reference Roomba (he never said Roomba, did he?  If he did, I missed it).     Since there was a callback/reference to the un-sliced pizza from Breaking Bad in this episode of Better Call Saul, I wondered if they were going to name Roomba as the kind of vacuum too.   (Jesse had a Roomba on Breaking Bad, and Walt used it to his advantage, to hide the faux ricin cigarette.)  

[Shriekingeel]

I think Kim was at the courthouse to check up on where Mesa Verde was getting all the financing for the massive expansion.

 

Any guesses for what the episode title refers to?

[Bannon]

16 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The piano scene showed him to be a perfectionist, not a "control freak".  Who is he trying to control there?

He was enraged because his was "in pain" and in a panic over the cell phone.  Sure, he could have just left the room, but that would have been far less dramatic writing and wouldn't have caused Rebecca to leave.  

Again, he didn't try to control Rebecca with his condition, he tried to win her back by hiding it from her.   

I can't really think of any cases where he controlled Howard with his condition.  It seemed more like he would control his condition better (wearing space blanket lined suits to hearings and meetings for example), when he wanted to keep an eye on Jimmy or otherwise manipulate things.

I still see no evidence of him being a control freak prior to his condition.   I guess, you could point out that he forced Jimmy to move to NM with him and take a job from him as a condition of getting him out of the sex crimes charges from the Chicago Sunroof.  But, I think that seems more like tough love.   

Yes, but it would be much more fun having him find a clever way, using unorthodox tools, to get out of the situation.  

Yeah, not only would he permanently lose his law license, it was stated that if he even got arrested in the next year, the felony charges would be reinstated and they would use his confession to prosecute him.    He probably could have made the $4,000 in a month of salary and commissions selling copiers for Neff.  

If you don't think throwing someone's  phone across a room, instead of simply leaving the room for few minutes (let us give the writers some credit), is not the act of an extreme controlling personality, I guess we will just agree to disagree again. With regards to perfectionism and the controlling personality...

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/ocd-and-perfectionism-2510483

"An excessive preoccupation with control is also a hallmark feature of maladaptive/unhealthy perfectionism."

 

....they really are frequently manifestations of the same psychological phenomena.

[monagatuna]

I can imagine being livid about getting a vacuum cleaner. I love my high-end vacuum (technically my partner's from before she met me), but as a gift? I can imagine wanting something frivolous. Hetero relationships historically have leaned heavily on the woman doing the lion's share of the housework, and a gift like that should belong to the household, not the woman. Now, if she had asked for something like that, it's a great gift, but it doesn't sound like it from his end of the conversation. My first thought was that they were going through a divorce and he was living in his office temporarily.

I was surprised to come on here and not see a bunch of complaints about the Hummel caper. I was ready and raring to disagree--I loved it. It was classic Jimmy, right down to the unexpected complications and genius way out. 

It also made me viciously crave pizza, despite needing to lose a good 15 pounds.

I'm happy with the pacing. Did this episode advance the plot much? Meh, not really, but it was so entertaining. I'm getting nervous about Kim. I think her move away from Jimmy is going to come fast. I've enjoyed their chemistry so much, but happy relationships on a show like this are not long-lived, and I anticipate real trouble very soon.

I loved that Cyrus was extra-careful to stomp out his cigarette in the brush on the side of the road, but the cousins go and set the car on fire after. The "oh my god another summer of wildfires" Californian in me first thought, did they at least dig a perimeter around the car first?

Edited August 21, 2018 by monagatuna

[Dev F]

21 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

When I first heard the word "vacuum" mentioned in this episode, I thought we were going to hear the guy reference Roomba (he never said Roomba, did he?  If he did, I missed it).

No, it was probably a Dyson. Neff talks about how it "never loses suction," which is a quote from the Dyson marketing, and would certainly not be the most salient feature of a robot vacuum that cleans your floors automatically.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

If you don't think throwing someone's  phone across a room, instead of simply leaving the room for few minutes (let us give the writers some credit), is not the act of an extreme controlling personality, I guess we will just agree to disagree again. With regards to perfectionism and the controlling personality...

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/ocd-and-perfectionism-2510483

"An excessive preoccupation with control is also a hallmark feature of maladaptive/unhealthy perfectionism."

 

....they really are frequently manifestations of the same psychological phenomena.

My point is the writers needed something dramatic to happen to push that story.  If Chuck quietly excused himself from the room, the scene wouldn't work. 

Also, he PANICS when exposed to electricity.  In addition, Chuck doesn't seem to believe that just going to the next room will protect him.  He makes all guests remove their wristwatches and "ground" themselves by touching a piece of metal outside, to get rid of the static electricity from their bodies.  He is NUTS when it comes to electricity.  Rebecca might as well have been holding a deadly, venomous snake in front of him, from Chuck's warped perspective.   

Desperately wanting to get something away from you, that you think is causing you harm and terrible pain is not a sign of being a "control freak".  

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Dev F said:

No, it was probably a Dyson. Neff talks about how it "never loses suction," which is a quote from the Dyson marketing, and would certainly not be the most salient feature of a robot vacuum that cleans your floors automatically.

I'm thinking it was a Hoover Max Extract® 60 Pressure Pro.   Maybe he should order a dust filter for it, and start a new life away from that harpy, Lynette. :)

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, jww said:

Why would a 48 year old man in good health write a letter worrying about his feelings towards his brother "die with me"?  It is something perhaps a person in his 70s, with  terminal cancer  or about to be shipped overseas to a war would write.

Maybe that's when his electricity aversion began? It wouldn't surprise me if Chuck, for some time, truly thought he was dying.

12 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

I can imagine being livid about getting a vacuum cleaner. I love my high-end vacuum (technically my partner's from before she met me), but as a gift? I can imagine wanting something frivolous. Hetero relationships historically have leaned heavily on the woman doing the lion's share of the housework, and a gift like that should belong to the household, not the woman. Now, if she had asked for something like that, it's a great gift, but it doesn't sound like it from his end of the conversation.

If the wife had previously made it clear that she likes romantic gifts, I'd say she has a right to be angry. And there's definitely something a little icky about giving a woman a cleaning product as a gift - unless she's into that.

That said, kicking him out of the house seems like an unjustifiably over-the-top reaction. 

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

I can imagine being livid about getting a vacuum cleaner. I love my high-end vacuum (technically my partner's from before she met me), but as a gift? I can imagine wanting something frivolous. Hetero relationships historically have leaned heavily on the woman doing the lion's share of the housework, and a gift like that should belong to the household, not the woman. Now, if she had asked for something like that, it's a great gift, but it doesn't sound like it from his end of the conversation. My first thought was that they were going through a divorce and he was living in his office temporarily.

I was surprised to come on here and not see a bunch of complaints about the Hummel caper. I was ready and raring to disagree--I loved it. It was classic Jimmy, right down to the unexpected complications and genius way out. 

It also made me viciously crave pizza, despite needing to lose a good 15 pounds.

I'm happy with the pacing. Did this episode advance the plot much? Meh, not really, but it was so entertaining. I'm getting nervous about Kim. I think her move away from Jimmy is going to come fast. I've enjoyed their chemistry so much, but happy relationships on a show like this are not long-lived, and I anticipate real trouble very soon.

As I said earlier, I am super curious as to whether Kim will be an exception to the rule of the Albuquerque universe of Gilligan and Gould. Walter and Skyler White, Hank and Marie, Jesse Pinkman, Jimmy/Saul, Chuck, and Howard, all refuse to address obvious issues forthrightly, for a variety of reasons. Excessive pride, grief and anger, or simply an unwillingness to confront an ugly reality. They create a universe of greater pain and suffering as a result of kicking the can down the road. Even the supremely disciplined Mike and Gus fall prey to it.

Will Kim admit to herself that Mesa Verde requires more than 1 outside lawyer and a paralegal, and solve the problem before another disaster or near disaster ensues? Will she admit that Jimmy is fully back to pre mailroom Jimmy, breaking rules for the sheer nihilistic anger expressing potential of it, and seperate herself from him, before she gets swamped in the morass of wrongdoing? Is Kim going to be different?

13 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

My point is the writers needed something dramatic to happen to push that story.  If Chuck quietly excused himself from the room, the scene wouldn't work. 

Also, he PANICS when exposed to electricity.  In addition, Chuck doesn't seem to believe that just going to the next room will protect him.  He makes all guests remove their wristwatches and "ground" themselves by touching a piece of metal outside, to get rid of the static electricity from their bodies.  He is NUTS when it comes to electricity.  Rebecca might as well have been holding a deadly, venomous snake in front of him, from Chuck's warped perspective.   

Desperately wanting to get something away from you, that you think is causing you harm and terrible pain is not a sign of being a "control freak".  

Unless, of course, the level of desperation is merely a function of how it can be used to control people. Normally people flee from that which causes discomfort, not cross a room to grab it.

We aren't going to agree about this, or the writer's intent. That's o.k.

[sempervivum]

41 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said:

I think Kim was at the courthouse to check up on where Mesa Verde was getting all the financing for the massive expansion.

 

Any guesses for what the episode title refers to?

No financial expert here, but I don't really understand how Kim would get this info (financing records re. buying/building in other states) from a NM courthouse. 

'Something beautiful'- The Hummel?! I  can only think it refers to Kim's love for Jimmy, doomed as it is.

Edited August 21, 2018 by sempervivum
wrong state, thanks bannon!

[ShadowFacts]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

As I said earlier, I am super curious as to whether Kim will be an exception to the rule of the Albuquerque universe of Gilligan and Gould. Walter and Skyler White, Hank and Marie, Jesse Pinkman, Jimmy/Saul, Chuck, and Howard, all refuse to address obvious issues forthrightly, for a variety of reasons. Excessive pride, grief and anger, or simply an unwillingness to confront an ugly reality. They create a universe of greater pain and suffering as a result of kicking the can down the road. Even the supremely disciplined Mike and Gus fall prey to it.

Will Kim admit to herself that Mesa Verde requires more than 1 outside lawyer and a paralegal, and solve the problem before another disaster or near disaster ensues? Will she admit that Jimmy is fully back to pre mailroom Jimmy, breaking rules for the sheer nihilistic anger expressing potential of it, and seperate herself from him, before she gets swamped in the morass of wrongdoing? Is Kim going to be different?

If she's going to be different, she should be exhibiting signs of it soon.  Assuming this show won't go many seasons longer than BB (I don't know that), then we don't have a lot of time left.  And this season is moving at a snail's pace, we're three episodes in and Kim still has healing cuts on her face from last season.   

1 minute ago, sempervivum said:

'Something beautiful'- The Hummel?! I  can only think it refers to Kim's love for Jimmy, doomed as it is.

Or the sibling relationship that could have been.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

As I said earlier, I am super curious as to whether Kim will be an exception to the rule of the Albuquerque universe of Gilligan and Gould. Walter and Skyler White, Hank and Marie, Jesse Pinkman, Jimmy/Saul, Chuck, and Howard, all refuse to address obvious issues forthrightly, for a variety of reasons. Excessive pride, grief and anger, or simply an unwillingness to confront an ugly reality. They create a universe of greater pain and suffering as a result of kicking the can down the road. Even the supremely disciplined Mike and Gus fall prey to it.

Will Kim admit to herself that Mesa Verde requires more than 1 outside lawyer and a paralegal, and solve the problem before another disaster or near disaster ensues? Will she admit that Jimmy is fully back to pre mailroom Jimmy, breaking rules for the sheer nihilistic anger expressing potential of it, and seperate herself from him, before she gets swamped in the morass of wrongdoing? Is Kim going to be different?

Unless, of course, the level of desperation is merely a function of how it can be used to control people. Normally people flee from that which causes discomfort, not cross a room to grab it.

We aren't going to agree about this, or the writer's intent. That's o.k.

I agree totally with the first half of your post.  

As for Chuck, there is nowhere in the world for him to flee.  His home is his lone sanctuary for all that evil electricity that "hurts" him, and Rebecca contaminated that sanctuary with her cell phone.   Of course, it is crazy, but Chuck is crazy.  

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

No financial expert here, but I don't really understand how Kim would get this info (financing records re. buying/building in other states) from an AZ courthouse. 

'Something beautiful'- The Hummel?! I  can only think it refers to Kim's love for Jimmy, doomed as it is.

You mean a NM courthouse  right? But I agree that the courthouse would be a very limited source of information on financing Mesa Verde's expansion. 

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

No financial expert here, but I don't really understand how Kim would get this info (financing records re. buying/building in other states) from an AZ courthouse. 

'Something beautiful'- The Hummel?! I  can only think it refers to Kim's love for Jimmy, doomed as it is.

It might have other meanings, but the title comes directly from Jimmy's quote while trying to pitch the Hummel caper to Mike.   "So, it's perfect, right? We make some nice Hummel-loving lady happy, and we make a bundle. Let's do something beautiful here. "

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree totally with the first half of your post.  

As for Chuck, there is nowhere in the world for him to flee.  His home is his lone sanctuary for all that evil electricity that "hurts" him, and Rebecca contaminated that sanctuary with her cell phone.   Of course, it is crazy, but Chuck is crazy.  

Chuck has otherwise convinced himself that the pain is a function of proximity to the source of electricity. Moving a distance away should have had a palliative effect, if Chuck did not have another subconcious goal. Again, we simply don't agree.

[nodorothyparker]

6 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Any guesses for what the episode title refers to?

In trying to sell the Hummel caper to Mike, Jimmy refers to making easy money from the supposed 5-minute job as doing "something beautiful."  As someone else already pointed out though, while they did pull it off in the end and will presumably get their money for it, his guy also nearly got caught and Jimmy risked breaking into a car and furthering his legal woes to do it.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I am hoping that Jimmy doesn't get tired of lugging that fish around.   I know he needs a pet to see the veterinarian, but I am going to feel pretty horrible if Jimmy says "fuck it" and flushes the fish.

I am hoping the veterinarian survives so that he can still help out with all of the animals.  He was getting pretty mouthy/ballsy, I was beginning to wonder if he was going to be "put down".

Our favorite vet is very much aware of how close to the fire he now is. He doesn't want to be there, but the question is whether the cartel will leave him alone, now that the cartel, and not just Nacho, knows he has a very useful skill set?

I fear he is going to be yet another person who gets all value extracted from him by the drug magnates, and then is himself flushed.

[jww]

 "while they did pull it off in the end and will presumably get their money for it,"  if a dealer has it listed for $8,000 they likely would be willing to buy it for 25%-33% of that as anyone who tried to sell baseball cards to a dealer or watched a couple episodes of Pawn Stars would know -Rick does not pay retail.

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I am hoping that Jimmy doesn't get tired of lugging that fish around.   I know he needs a pet to see the veterinarian, but I am going to feel pretty horrible if Jimmy says "fuck it" and flushes the fish.

I am hoping the veterinarian survives so that he can still help out with all of the animals.  He was getting pretty mouthy/ballsy, I was beginning to wonder if he was going to be "put down".

The vet is another one who has gotten in over his head with the Albuquerque underworld.  He is not safe.  He's handy for plot purposes for when these criminals want to make a contact or get drugs (or lifesaving surgery), but he knows too much to survive long term.  If he's smart he quietly closes the practice and gets out of Dodge.  And doesn't wait too long like Nacho has. 

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Our favorite vet is very much aware of how close to the fire he now is. He doesn't want to be there, but the question is whether the cartel will leave him alone, now that the cartel, and not just Nacho, knows he has a very useful skill set?

I fear he is going to be yet another person who gets all value extracted from him by the drug magnates, and then is himself flushed.

I was afraid the Cousins were going to kill him as soon as he finished his surgery on Nacho, to eliminate him as a witness.  The fact that they didn't suggests, they might want to use him in the future, which might not turn out so well for him.   I love how the vet has no problem brokering hits and other crimes, but is so passionate about his customers caring for their animals perfectly.  

I wonder is Jimmy Saul might take over his role as crime broker, if the cartel does kill him.  He seemed to have a pretty good network of goons, burglars and money laundering friendly business people on BB.  

Edited August 21, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[nodorothyparker]

7 minutes ago, jww said:

if a dealer has it listed for $8,000 they likely would be willing to buy it for 25%-33% of that as anyone who tried to sell baseball cards to a dealer or watched a couple episodes of Pawn Stars would know -Rick does not pay retail.

Jimmy suggested they would send everybody's favorite worst criminal, Pryce, to sell it at a collectibles expo in Dallas the following week.  I admit I would totally be up to watching that.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, nodorothyparker said:

Jimmy suggested they would send everybody's favorite worst criminal, Pryce, to sell it at a collectibles expo in Dallas the following week.  I admit I would totally be up to watching that.

Pryce would probably sell it for the full $8,000, but then mess up the money by buying a bunch of expensive baseball cards.  In the wise words of Gustavo Fring, "Never trust an addict." :)

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, jww said:

 "while they did pull it off in the end and will presumably get their money for it,"  if a dealer has it listed for $8,000 they likely would be willing to buy it for 25%-33% of that as anyone who tried to sell baseball cards to a dealer or watched a couple episodes of Pawn Stars would know -Rick does not pay retail.

In real life, the Hummels market began to collapse before 2000, and had been falling for years by the time Jimmy spotted the prize at the copier shop. I'll be surprised if they show it bringing a thousand, which means yet another person, and his friends, the burglar/Vamanos Pest guy, and his merry band of neo nazis, who have significant destructive potential, are going to be mad at Jimmy or Saul.

9 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Jimmy suggested they would send everybody's favorite worst criminal, Pryce, to sell it at a collectibles expo in Dallas the following week.  I admit I would totally be up to watching that.

Oh, goodness  yes. If they can work in a reference to squat cobbling, I'll know I'm in t.v. heaven.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, Bannon said:

In real life, the Hummels market began to collapse before 2000, and had been falling for years by the time Jimmy spotted the prize at the copier shop. I'll be surprised if they show it bringing a thousand, which means yet another person, and his friends, the burglar/Vamanos Pest guy, and his merry band of neo nazis, who have significant destructive potential, are going to be mad at Jimmy or Saul.

I don't think Ira has any neo-nazi connections, other than Todd, and I'm not sure he knew about Todd's Uncle Jack.  Two of his 3 employees/accomplices were Latino.   Walt, Jesse and Mike used Ira's guys on the train heist, and Jack and the Nazi's knew nothing about it until Todd told them about it, later on. 

I think the show is creating a fiction that the "Bavarian Boy" (which I don't think even exists) was really worth $8,000.  Someone was selling one for that much on ebay or a similar site. Maybe it was Skyler White. :)

Edited August 21, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think Ira has any neo-nazi connections, other than Todd, and I'm not sure he knew about Todd's Uncle Jack.  Two of his 3 employees/accomplices were Latino.   

I think the show is creating a fiction that the "Bavarian Boy" (which I don't think even exists) was really worth $8,000.  Someone was selling one for that much on ebay or a similar site. Maybe it was Skyler White. :)

Yeah, who knows, but there is a lot of comic potential in Jimmy being a sucker for something he read on the innertubz. Like Pryce walking up to a dealer booth in Texas, being The Total Hummels Playa, offering to sell his stash for 8k, and the dealer turning around to point at a display table  where 31 other exact figurines are lined up, while saying "More like 80 bucks, sport".