Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[kes0704]

8 hours ago, Angel12d said:

This. If OTA had gone missing and their kids teamed up to find them, I'd really be enjoying it. The FF now? A mess. 

I would’ve been onboard with the flash forwards if this had been the story plan. Even the grimness of the future wouldn’t bother me, but adding in future Dinah is affecting how I much I might’ve enjoyed them. 

I don’t know what their thought process was in doubling up on character that hasn’t found a solid fanbase. Present Dinah and future Dinah in a single episode is way too much Dinah for me. They really need to use her more sparingly. If she’s got a lot of story in the present, then scale back on her scenes in the future and vice versa. 

[way2interested]

2 hours ago, kes0704 said:

I don’t know what their thought process was in doubling up on character that hasn’t found a solid fanbase

Well, it wasn't going to be any member of OTA, so then it's down to one of the newbies. Then they decided I guess that they wanted to add Rene as gone for a bit since he had a kid they could write for, so it's down to Dinah or Curtis. Then I'm guessing that Dinah was the one who could be introduced to the story easier and fit in a mystery hunt better, so Dinah. The question there I guess should be if they needed to double up a character in the first place since they have Roy there already, but Idk quite honestly.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Well, it wasn't going to be any member of OTA, so then it's down to one of the newbies. Then they decided I guess that they wanted to add Rene as gone for a bit since he had a kid they could write for, so it's down to Dinah or Curtis. Then I'm guessing that Dinah was the one who could be introduced to the story easier and fit in a mystery hunt better, so Dinah. The question there I guess should be if they needed to double up a character in the first place since they have Roy there already, but Idk quite honestly.

Once they decided that Roy was going to be as much on the outside as William than they had to provide a character in Star City that people knew (can't use adult Zoe) and, had the SC exposition.

My guess is it had to be one of the Noobs because they wanted to keep OTA as part of the mystery (and obviously Felicity is the Holy Grail -object being missing/sought after), that leaves NTA.  As previously mentioned they delayed Rene because (IMO) the intention of the FF is to setup TA, Jr so we get Zoe instead of Rene (for now).  That leaves Dinah/Curtis and i guess it could be a couple of different reasons but, I suspect it's connected to the present day storyline.  So either Dinah is in the Flash Forwards because she's a Cop in the present or Curits is missing from the future because Argus is going to be the Future Big Bad and they haven't revealed that yet in the present.  Or maybe they just said all 3 noobs are hated, lets flip a coin as to which one we use LOL

When it comes to the Flash Forwards I pretty much view it all as bullshit until we're shown it's not and even then they'll change it.  Which is exactly what they did with the Flashbacks

S1 Oliver: Sara is dead (we know from both MG/AJK and SA that SA knew when filming that scene that Sara was alive).

S1 Oliver: I was alone on that island for 5 years...um, that island is practically a Sandals and, you totally left it to go to Russia and Hong Kong.

S2 Oliver: There's no cure for Mirakuru, 10 episodes later oh wait did i totally forget to mention that there was a cure?  Too bad I waited until after Roy went batshit and almost killed people, my bad

SX Oliver: I've been away for 5 years and couldn't come home, oh wait did i forget to mention that trip back to SC where I met/saw Diggle/Felicity for the very first time, killed Thea's drug dealer and knew all about Tommy/Laurel?  Oh and then I spent 5 months chilling in Coast City but, nope totally couldn't come home until S5.

I'm not taking anything shown in the Flash Forwards, especially in the early Flash Forwards at face value because right now it's all about setting up the mystery.  I'm especially not taking anything NOT Said about Maya as concrete proof that my expectations/speculation is wrong because with this show and how they treated the Flashbacks, what's not said doesn't mean much and even what's said could turn out to be total bullshit by the end of the Season...Hi Slade!

 

ETA: One final thought that i just had, the present forms the future  Beth said as much and we've seen the show follow this same pattern with the flashbacks.  It's entirely possible that once they decided Olicity would end 708 on a downer that revealing Maya as an Olicity kid would contradict the Olicity are struggling present day storyline.  So maybe Maya gets revealed in 7B when Olicity resolves their issues?

Edited December 6, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

However, going that route eliminates IMO any real connection to S7 present day storyline unless they were planning to make Diaz the Big Bad for the Flash Forwards (since they still haven't really developed Evil Argus in the present...yet).  So, it seems like the only way they could think of to connect present/future is through "evil"/"dark" Felicity.  

Yeah, plus I'm thinking how inadvertently insulting it would have looked to the newbies' management like "hey, instead of giving you more time/meat as usual for newer cast over old, we're going to completely sideline you and bring someone completely different to make up the time!" I mean, sure ideally it would have been preferable, but conceptually in production and narrative wise it just wasn't going to happen.

 

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm not taking anything shown in the Flash Forwards, especially in the early Flash Forwards at face value because right now it's all about setting up the mystery.  I'm especially not taking anything NOT Said about Maya as concrete proof that my expectations/speculation is wrong because with this show and how they treated the Flashbacks, what's not said doesn't mean much and even what's said could turn out to be total bullshit by the end of the Season...Hi Slade!

Yeah, that's where I'm at, anything could be up for change at any point. And tbh while I get the annoying aspect of the story, I actually love the ridiculousness of the mystery just like I always laughed when they had to fix something or change something in the flashbacks. And, heck, knowing that likely Felicity is not dead/evil and that Maya is more likely than not someone important/Olicity's kid already pushes the idea that what's said at face value or set up is obviously going to change/explained more/thrown out completely, so I'm not really going to go in the weeds of the details too much rather than just following whatever they are trying to tell in the moment.

[tv echo]

I'm starting to get a bad feeling about 713. Just speculating - but maybe it's focused on parallel Canary/Siren stories? Dinah in the present day and E2 Laurel flashbacks involving her Ollie?

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I'm starting to get a bad feeling about 713. Just speculating - but maybe it's focused on parallel Canary/Siren stories? Dinah in the present day and E2 Laurel flashbacks involving her Ollie?

Why? 

[tv echo]

Nothing concrete - just a feeling, based on JH cancelling a comic con in order to film 713 and SA tweeting a GA comics panel about Oliver making chili (which I understand he does for Black Canary in the comics). Also, we usually get a Dinah or Canary episode in the back half of the season.

Edited December 6, 2018 by tv echo

[JJ928]

15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I'm starting to get a bad feeling about 713. Just speculating - but maybe it's focused on parallel Canary/Siren stories? Dinah in the present day and E2 Laurel flashbacks involving her Ollie?

Pretty sure Katie isn't filming much, seems like her wedding is coming up soon. All her social media posts have been about that. I think the chilli thing is, it's so spicy no one can eat it. I think he makes it for the Justice League (at least those are the panels I've seen).

Edited December 6, 2018 by JJ928

[lemotomato]

10 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I'm starting to get a bad feeling about 713. Just speculating - but maybe it's focused on parallel Canary/Siren stories? Dinah in the present day and E2 Laurel flashbacks involving her Ollie?

The show isn’t doing flashbacks this season. 

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

which I understand he does for Black Canary in the comics). Also, we usually get a Dinah or Canary episode after the midseason break.

He does for everyone in the comics.  Google Green Arrow Chili and you'll find several panels/comics where Ollie apparently cooks super hot chili for members of the JL and they all suffer for it..except Batman because....He's Batman

Edited December 6, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[JJ928]

I'd love an Earth 2 episode, but after Oliver died. I'd like to see Earth 2 Felicity & Diggle and what their dynamic is like with Siren. It'd also be a good way to bring people back like Tommy and Chase. I mean, we've done eps with minimal Oliver before, I'd enjoy it.

Edited December 6, 2018 by JJ928

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Nothing concrete - just a feeling, based on JH cancelling a comic con in order to film 713 and SA tweeting a GA comics panel about Oliver making chili (which I understand he does for Black Canary in the comics). Also, we usually get a Dinah or Canary episode in the back half of the season.

The canary episode is most likely going to be 711, which is co-written by Tonya Kong.

[JJ928]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Ollie apparently cooks super hot chili for members of the JL and they all suffer for it..except Batman because....He's Batman

 

I want Felicity  or Diggle to be batman in this situation lol.

Edited December 6, 2018 by JJ928

[SmallScreenDiva]

I wonder if Overwatch will be part of SCPD now that the Green Arrow is basically a deputized cop. Will she continue being in his ear or will that now go to Dinah as his handler? And what about the others? Wild Dog also suiting up?

The prospect of more Dinah is souring me on the show. Not even Laurel was able to do that. 

[tv echo]

Here we go with the use of the word "game-changing"...

[JJ928]

18 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I wonder if Overwatch will be part of SCPD now that the Green Arrow is basically a deputized cop. Will she continue being in his ear or will that now go to Dinah as his handler? And what about the others? Wild Dog also suiting up?

The prospect of more Dinah is souring me on the show. Not even Laurel was able to do that. 

I feel the same way tbh. If they're not gonna have FS in his ear then at least let her go help the new Green Arrow lol. I don't want her to lose her role as overwatch, though I wouldn't be surprised if she's still in Oliver's ear but no one else is the wiser. I simply can't see Oliver fully trusting the SCPD.

[Chaser]

My guess is OTA/NTA is a Team again in 7x13 and he cooks chili for everyone. 

[bijoux]

42 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I want Felicity  or Diggle to be batman in this situation lol.

I don't think it will be Diggle who habitually pukes when Barry flashes him. 

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I don't think it will be Diggle who habitually pukes when Barry flashes him. 

Yeah but Felicity pukes whenever she time travels....isn't it funny how Barry and Felicity get sick when no one on Flash or LoT have these issues?  LOL  sooooo funny to make fun of Arrow characters 

[Chaser]

It will be Dinah. Cause she’s a tough girl.

[JJ928]

Meh, but this is Arrow. I don't consider what happens on other shows canon because they never write our characters right. So give me Felicity & Digg eating that nasty ass chili like it's oatmeal, while the rest die from the heat. lol

[Guest]

I really don’t think Oliver cooking his famous comic book chilli means anything but a comic Easter egg. That being said, haven’t we had enough Canary focused episodes already? 704 and 708 had far too much Dinah and she’s stinking up the flashforwards too. The prospect of more actually makes my stomach sink. She’s insufferable. 

Though 711 is written by Tonya Kong and she does seem to be the BC/BS writer...I guess we’ll have to see if she’s written 713  too. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Guest

[Kymmi]

I can't handle Dinah in all story lines (present day & flash forward) - at least pick one.  As it stands now, she's going to have more air time than Oliver. It seems like they need her more in the FF than in the present.  Instead of the Green Arrow working with the cops so much, why can't he just work with LL2, the way he did LL1 in early S3?  You catch 'em, I cook 'em?

[Chaser]

Given DR’s KC comments, I’d say it’s more a Siren/Diaz episode then Canary. Really looking forward to skipping it.

I don’t see KC being in 7x12/13 much.

7x12 is supposedly the return of OTA. Hopefully that means it’s an OTA episode but who knows.

I want to know when the next Felicity episode is and the real Olicity episode.

[Guest]

I just want to know if Felicity will be working as Overwatch. With her PTSD she’s obsessing over home security and being safe and I wonder if that will be her focus for a while rather than being Overwatch. That alone makes me sad and annoyed because I’m really not looking forward to the Oliver/Dinah show where it’s just them teaming up. I’m about to be bored to death. 

And I’m also concerned that they’re gonna keep Olicity distant from one another which is really the opposite of what they should be doing right now. They need to be helping each other. 😔

Edited December 6, 2018 by Guest

[tv echo]

49 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Given DR’s KC comments, I’d say it’s more a Siren/Diaz episode then Canary. Really looking forward to skipping it.

I don’t see KC being in 7x12/13 much.

7x12 is supposedly the return of OTA. Hopefully that means it’s an OTA episode but who knows.

I want to know when the next Felicity episode is and the real Olicity episode.

I thought that DR's KC and KA comments were for the episode he directed (711).

712 is the 150th episode, when DR said that Spartan was returning and that we'll start getting OTA again.

[Chaser]

Right. He directed it and it was co written by Tonya. I was just saying that I didn’t think it was going to be a BC/Dinah episode.

[BkWurm1]

23 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

She's got me scared with the threat of Dinah's sour, joyless mug smirking in every episode, every week. Dinah is the big bad of S7! One that survives for the next 20yrs!!! 😱😱😱

It would be hilarious if what JH is hinting at with her promise to give us many more reasons to hate on DInah is Dinah going bad.  I might actually start liking Dinah if that happened, lol.  

7 hours ago, bijoux said:

I don't think it will be Diggle who habitually pukes when Barry flashes him. 

It will probably be Rene who eats anything and lots of it.  

 

6 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I just want to know if Felicity will be working as Overwatch. With her PTSD she’s obsessing over home security and being safe and I wonder if that will be her focus for a while rather than being Overwatch. That alone makes me sad and annoyed because I’m really not looking forward to the Oliver/Dinah show where it’s just them teaming up. I’m about to be bored to death. 

And I’m also concerned that they’re gonna keep Olicity distant from one another which is really the opposite of what they should be doing right now. They need to be helping each other. 😔

EBR gave an interview somewhere that mentioned that Overwatch is part of what helps her find her way back (paraphrasing and perhaps badly) but yeah, Overwatch is supposed to return but right now it doesn't seem like there'a a place for her as Overwatch.  

Oliver working for Dinah and the police has bad vibes all over it but shutting Felicity out from working with Oliver is one of the huge parts for me.  I mean apart from last year when they all worked with the FBI in the finale, she hasn't worked with Oliver going back to before Oliver got canned as the Mayor.  I hope I'm just piling on because of all the other crap they've done, but I can't help worry about Felicity ever being Overwatch for Oliver regularly again.  I'm not worried she won't ever be occasionally or maybe even for others, but I worry they are pushing her further from Oliver's heroic and sticking her more in the family and wife category.  (And then she gets her own plot lines having little to do with Oliver...a little bit too much like Laurel in the early seasons for my comfort)

I mean, not having Felicity in on the op or at least having a great reason for not being in on it would have been unheard of before this last episode and no one even blinked about her not being directly involved.  Oliver had her "help" on her own, but she wasn't part of him directly being the GA.  And that feels incredibly wrong.  

Or maybe that's the point.  That the thing that helps Olicity move in the same direction is working together, something they haven't been able to do in ages.   So when they get to return to being partners, they also will find more solid ground in their relationship.  

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Or maybe that's the point.  That the thing that helps Olicity move in the same direction is working together, something they haven't been able to do in ages.   So when they get to return to being partners, they also will find more solid ground in their relationship.  

But when is that going to be? Oliver working with Dinah rather than Team Arrow means that Felicity has no involvement in what he does. While he was in prison, they were both working towards the same goal but separately. Now they don't even have that.

It's like at the end of s5; I wouldn't mind the bleakness of the present and the ff's if Oliver and Felicity were just together and working together again.

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

Here we go with the use of the word "game-changing"...

If Maya really is the Olicity daughter and now that we know NGA is Oliver's half-sister, I will give him "game-changing" just this once.

14 hours ago, kes0704 said:

I don’t know what their thought process was in doubling up on character that hasn’t found a solid fanbase. Present Dinah and future Dinah in a single episode is way too much Dinah for me. They really need to use her more sparingly. If she’s got a lot of story in the present, then scale back on her scenes in the future and vice versa. 

She has the comic fanboy fanbase. That's all they probably care about with respect to her, the comics people and just enough story to justify her being on the show.

[Chaser]

Honestly, I don’t think she has the comic fan base. I think she’s mandate and that’s the only reason she is on the show. 

[Mellowyellow]

I think the comic fans are still wanting KC as their BC.

Dinah won worst character last year in a year where we thought the vote would be split.

The only Dinah/JH fans I know of are the handful of fake Felicity fans (the ones who usually advocate Felicity being a doormat in the ship).

JH is incredibly lucky her character is a protected comic species. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

EBR gave an interview somewhere that mentioned that Overwatch is part of what helps her find her way back (paraphrasing and perhaps badly) but yeah, Overwatch is supposed to return but right now it doesn't seem like there'a a place for her as Overwatch.  

Oliver working for Dinah and the police has bad vibes all over it but shutting Felicity out from working with Oliver is one of the huge parts for me.  I mean apart from last year when they all worked with the FBI in the finale, she hasn't worked with Oliver going back to before Oliver got canned as the Mayor.  I hope I'm just piling on because of all the other crap they've done, but I can't help worry about Felicity ever being Overwatch for Oliver regularly again.  I'm not worried she won't ever be occasionally or maybe even for others, but I worry they are pushing her further from Oliver's heroic and sticking her more in the family and wife category.  (And then she gets her own plot lines having little to do with Oliver...a little bit too much like Laurel in the early seasons for my comfort)

I know they're trying to push Felicity's PTSD obsessed with security thing but if she's not on comms soon, I will RAGE if she's being relegated to the wife/family only role. She has been Overwatch for 6 years - an important role in their team regardless of their romantic involvement. I really hope EBR was right in that being Overwatch helps find her way back because I agree, not hearing her on comms while Oliver was out in the field was straight up weird and wrong. 

Side note but it amazes me how much the other characters are diminished or sidelined in ways that make no sense just to give Dinah some goddamn relevance, and in this case a chance to do their dumbass comic partnership. She literally earns nothing. I don't think I've ever hated a character more. Give me E1 LL any day.

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Side note but it amazes me how much the other characters are diminished or sidelined in ways that make no sense just to give Dinah some goddamn relevance, and in this case a chance to do their dumbass comic partnership. She literally earns nothing.

True. You could argue they had to make basically the entire SCPD (or a large chunk of it, at least, including all of her superiors) corrupt to make her captain. Is it wrong that I'm looking forward to when whoever's part of the SCPD attacking vigilantes in the future turns on Dinah? Unfortunately, it's not going to happen this season and we might be stuck with police captain Dinah Drake for the rest or most of the rest of the present-day timeline of the series.

Edited December 7, 2018 by insomniadreams88

[Velocity23]

Awww how cute NTA reunited

[JJ928]

Putting this here, since it's an image of the mark of four tattoo. They couldn't come up with something cooler? LOL this is lame.

Edited December 7, 2018 by JJ928

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

They couldn't come up with something cooler? LOL this is lame.

Well, is Oliver supposed to be a good artist because he designed it XD

[apinknightmare]

If the arrow isn't for Oliver and the star for Felicity, then what are we even doing here? 

Everything being off center is really bothering me.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

If the arrow isn't for Oliver and the star for Felicity, then what are we even doing here? 

Everything being off center is really bothering me.

Why Star for Felicity?  Just not making the connection.

[way2interested]

I would have figured that the circle/target/eye would have been Felicity, if those symbols do in fact represent people

[JJ928]

I was curious, so I looked up some of the logos for the team members and Argus, but there doesn't seem to be much of a connection.

Edited December 7, 2018 by JJ928

[Chaser]

It looks like a compass. That could be the North Star, which guides you home. I can see how that could relate to Overwatch.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Chaser

[Mellowyellow]

Just read the new review @tv echo posted.

People are (understandably) jumping off the baby train. It makes me sad. I love William but I am sad at the prospect that Oliver and Felicity never have an Olicitot together. 

Just 20 miserable freaking years in the hellmouth. Is this what happens when writers try to be clever without the skills to be clever?

[tv echo]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Just read the new review @tv echo posted.

People are (understandably) jumping off the baby train. It makes me sad. I love William but I am sad at the prospect that Oliver and Felicity never have an Olicitot together. 

Just 20 miserable freaking years in the hellmouth. Is this what happens when writers try to be clever without the skills to be clever?

jbuffyangel still thinks that Maya is Olicity's daughter and gives several reasons why she thinks so (like the Scotch drinking and other things). However, I thought some of her reasons were weak, so I didn't bother to quote her whole section on Maya. Also, I was trying to reduce the length of my quote.

Edited December 7, 2018 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

It looks like a compass. That could be the North Star, which guides you home. I can see how that could relate to Overwatch.

 

Yeah, with the way it was positioned on Dinah's wrist I thought it was supposed to be a compass as well. IF there's any symbolism there, and not just in terms of actual symbols (like arrow for Oliver, the "eye" for Felicity), I think the star makes sense for her, but would be really surprised if the arrow and star wind up being symbolic at all.

Edited December 7, 2018 by apinknightmare

[KenyaJ]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Just read the new review @tv echo posted.

People are (understandably) jumping off the baby train. It makes me sad.

Nope. She's totally still on the train. She talks about it in her review and on her podcast.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

jbuffyangel still thinks that Maya is Olicity's daughter and gives several reasons why she thinks so (like the Scotch drinking and other things). However, I thought some of her reasons were weak, so I didn't bother to quote her whole section on Maya. Also, I was trying to reduce the length of my quote.

Eh I am just fed up! (not at you obviously!!!!!)

It's going to be a reach and I wonder if they would EVER show old Felicity or are they going to drag this shit out and let JH carry out her threat of inflicting Dinah's mug on us for eternity.

For the love of god at least learn to act, or at the very minimal a few more facial expressions! 

[apinknightmare]

25 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why Star for Felicity?  Just not making the connection.

@Chaser explained it, but I was mostly just being silly. 

[JJ928]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, with the way it was positioned on Dinah's wrist I thought it was supposed to be a compass as well. IF there's any symbolism there, and not just in terms of actual symbols (like arrow for Oliver, the "eye" for Felicity), I think the star makes sense for her, but would be really surprised if it winds up being a thing at all. 

Yeah, it's obviously a compass but people are trying to find meaning in the double circle (which looks like a bullseye to me), and reading into the center X. Turning it around, and making more complicated than Arrow writers are capable of. So I am gonna do my part and feed the crazy lol.

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

It's going to be a reach and I wonder if they would EVER show old Felicity

They are obviously going to show Felicity because she's obviously not dead

And reach or not, if they are going to do it, they'll do it. Laurel became BC after boxing lessons, Oliver survived a stab to the chest and falling off a mountain with some tea, etc.

Edited December 7, 2018 by way2interested

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

They are obviously going to show Felicity because she's obviously not dead

At the rate they are going I seriously wonder if they will drag it on should they be renewed for S8. They are pretty cheap with their story telling.

When do we find out if they get renewed?

ETA: These are the same twits who ended the MSF with Olicity on the outs and shoved Dinah in EVERYWHERE in what most people assumed would be an Olicity episode.

I can see them dragging the Felicity mystery on until S8 or whenever and making up more nonsense as they go along.

There was NO cause for Dinah to get 20 mins of screen time when we have had no Olicity all season.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Mellowyellow