Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[Chaser]

So far: she became bad because she lost her father (I’m not sure about the Oliver bit), she was Zoom’s henchman, Cayden’s henchman, Diaz’s henchman/maybe lover. Her turn to ‘good’ was because her doppelgänger’s father told her she could be better. It reads like she’s searching for a Daddy and she doesn’t actually possess a moral compass of her own. 

I’d like someone to call her out on that. 

[statsgirl]

Curtis and anyone associated with him remains a waste of time but I thought this was cute

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Officer-turned-Vigilante: Evan Roderick talks Nick’s epic return to Season 7 of ‘Arrow’
McKenzie Morrell   October 19, 2018
https://fanfest.com/2018/10/19/officer-turned-vigilante-evan-roderick-talks-nicks-epic-return-to-season-7-of-arrow/

Quote

MM: If you had to concoct a donut based on Nick’s personality, what kind of donut would he be, and what kind of toppings would on it?
ER: Honey glazed for sure! No toppings. Reliable and dependable — you know what you’re getting every time and you can’t go wrong!

[Chaser]

I used to interview applicants at my job and I would toss in questions like that.

”Would you rather be eaten by a bear or bitten by a shark?”

”Who would win in a fight, caveman or astronauts?”

”Would you rather have leg-sized fingers or finger-sized legs?”

[Primal Slayer]

It would've helped if they could differentiate her with her going by Dinah but they already screwed that up so people will stay confused. I Beths whole "is she Black Siren or is she Laurel" I think has more to do with E2 Laurel then is she E1 Laurel. 

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Moving on, I agree that this Maya character will be the baby Ramsay cheerfully spoiled back in May.  My question is if her name is really Maya or if we'll get a Tina-Dinah situation and the name is a placeholder until the episode airs.  

Kat McNamara has referred to her as Maya in her tweets, so I'm guessing that's really her name.

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

So far: she became bad because she lost her father (I’m not sure about the Oliver bit), she was Zoom’s henchman, Cayden’s henchman, Diaz’s henchman/maybe lover. Her turn to ‘good’ was because her doppelgänger’s father told her she could be better. It reads like she’s searching for a Daddy and she doesn’t actually possess a moral compass of her own. 

I’d like someone to call her out on that. 

I think it is more "losing her father started her down a dark road" more then just his death is what turned her back. Quentin already called her out on following all these men, Quentin believed that she could be good which is something I think this Laurel never really had. Could be a good storyline of course but even with 22 episodes I thinkwe wont explore it. Exploring how especially once she became a meta human she was used as a weapon by these men wanting to take over something is something I need them to deal with.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I Beths whole "is she Black Siren or is she Laurel" I think has more to do with E2 Laurel then is she E1 Laurel. 

I hope so. It's hard to tell with this show since she's only ever been compared to or encouraged to be E1 Laurel. By Oliver, by Quentin. Even Sara only asked her if she was anything like "her" Laurel. And now that she's pretending to be that Laurel...who knows what Beth's going on about. Hopefully she lets her be her own person. 

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I Beths whole "is she Black Siren or is she Laurel" I think has more to do with E2 Laurel then is she E1 Laurel. 

Yeah, it’s just with everything else, from last season and now the public thinks she’s E1 LL and she’s pretending to be ...

I think this problem would’ve been solved by Beth saying “is she good or is she bad?”

[Primal Slayer]

13 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, it’s just with everything else, from last season and now the public thinks she’s E1 LL and she’s pretending to be ...

I think this problem would’ve been solved by Beth saying “is she good or is she bad?”

I think her pretending to be E1 LL is a good storyline in general especially if they played up her trying not to lose her sense of self.  But of course it is also a lot more interesting to see her being forced to take the good with the bad when it comes to being "Laurel" but they wont do that. She should be having to look over her shoulder for villains who think she is really Black Canary come back to life. She should also have to confront her sins with seeing how much the public thank her for her deeds as Black Canary. 

Saying "if she good or bad" is a simple, straight to the point way of phrasing it but they dont seem to talk to like that in this show bts.

[tv echo]

15 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Kat McNamara has referred to her as Maya in her tweets, so I'm guessing that's really her name.

Maya could be a family nickname and her real name could be a longer name. For example, Vixen's name is Amaya Jiwe. So maybe Vixen crosses over at some point and helps them and then has the baby named after her. Just wildly speculating.

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Maya could be a family nickname and her real name could be a longer name. For example, Vixen's name is Amaya Jiwe. So maybe Vixen crosses over at some point and helps them and then has the baby named after her. Just wildly speculating.

That Vixen is now back in 1942 so unlikely. But KMN could be under orders to use it until there is a reveal. I have to keep remembering that it's not certain who she is yet.

[tv echo]

From Circa POP Live interview with Katherine McNamara on Oct. 19...

-- On what it's like being part of Arrow now, KM: "I feel very fortunate... It's amazing. It's such great family. I mean, I've shot my first episode and they've been so welcoming and so wonderful. And, uh, it's a very exciting character, very different from Clary on Shadowhunters, sort of the antithesis of everything she was, um, which is really cool. And - and fun for me as an actor to do something different."

Edited October 21, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Another good SA interview that was published on the day 701 aired (but not previously posted here)...

Stephen Amell on a Divided 'Arrow' & What Has Him 'Pumped' for Oliver's Prison Stint
Damian Holbrook October 15, 2018 
https://www.tvinsider.com/723166/stephen-amell-arrow-season-7-oliver-prison/

Edited October 21, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From Oct. 1, 2018 fan tumblr - I don't know how legit this spoiler is (the linked instagram post was deleted)...
http://dmichellewrites.tumblr.com/post/178638176046/sea-shimooka-first-day-shooting-and-i-learned

Quote

Sea Shimooka: first day shooting and I learned don’t do an all you can eat of the chia pudding right before your shirtless scene

Actress Sea Shimooka will be featured in 707 in a TBA role. (She recently followed the Arrow show instagram and Stephen. It is unknown at this time if she’ll be a recurring character. This was taken 2 days ago. They’ll be working on 708 today

OCT 1.2018 | 42NOTES - 
POSTED BY:DMICHELLEWRITES

Edited October 21, 2018 by tv echo

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

She should be having to look over her shoulder for villains who think she is really Black Canary come back to life. She should also have to confront her sins with seeing how much the public thank her for her deeds as Black Canary. 

The public don't even thank Oliver for his deeds as GA and he's done way more than LL as BC ever did. I don't think that will ever come up tbh. 

All I would like to see with BS is that she's not perfect at being DA. It's kinda laughable that she would fit in so effortlessly. Let's see her make some mistakes. Whether they show that, however, remains to be seen!

19 minutes ago, tv echo said:

From Oct. 1, 2018 fan tumblr - I don't know how legit this spoiler is (the linked instagram post was deleted)...
http://dmichellewrites.tumblr.com/post/178638176046/sea-shimooka-first-day-shooting-and-i-learned

She is definitely Emiko Queen. The casting seems pretty accurate to me.

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

The public don't even thank Oliver for his deeds as GA and he's done way more than LL as BC ever did. I don't think that will ever come up tbh. 

All I would like to see with BS is that she's not perfect at being DA. It's kinda laughable that she would fit in so effortlessly. Let's see her make some mistakes. Whether they show that, however, remains to be seen!

She is definitely Emiko Queen. The casting seems pretty accurate to me.

And that is a mistake, not everyone is against Vigilantes but "Laurel" is in a different advantage then Oliver is. He outted himself as GA and went to jail, she is still in the public eye. People that Black Canary helped save, coming up to her to thank her and even give their support towards vigilantes makes sense. 

I also hope we see that she isnt perfect as a DA and just how she is navigating it in general. 

[apinknightmare]

Quentin thinking she could read some law books and go off and pretend to be a lawyer because she looked like Laurel was one of the more idiotic things he did last season, but this tweet from Tonya Kong - that didn't make a whole lot of sense at the time - doesn't give me great feelings about L2's lack of law schooling being an issue at all. 

 

Dinah and Rene could've planted some seeds about this in the premiere when they were talking about her, but no one mentioned that she's pretending to be a lawyer, did they?

[Guest]

UGH. I've never seen that tweet before. Big mistake, IMO. If the writers are talking like she's E1 Laurel, what hope is there? Yikes.

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

UGH. I've never seen that tweet before. Big mistake, IMO. If the writers are talking like she's E1 Laurel, what hope is there? Yikes.

I mean, she obviously wouldn’t want to spoil that Laurel was faking (if she is faking, and they didn’t just magically make her a lawyer and hope no one would notice), so maybe it is an issue at some point? I don’t know.

But the tale of two Laurels hashtag does make me think that she’s trying to decide if she’s E-1 Laurel or not. Which...yuck. That should’ve been an issue for other people to struggle with (although 2 years after she showed up probably not anymore). But E-2 Laurel should never be struggling with that. No matter what she was like on E-2 pre becoming a villain, she wasn’t E-1 Laurel.

Hopefully this tweet amounts to nothing in-show. 

[Guest]

Yeah, it's the Tale of Two Laurels hashtag that has me like...huh? This would be a completely different story if E1 Laurel had an accident and had been brainwashed and done bad things and then eventually had to decide which Laurel she was...BS or BC. But she's not E1 Laurel. This is where they lose me. She was never BC. There really shouldn't be any conflict there? IDGI. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

And now that the adult version of William has found Roy on Lian Yu, expect to learn more about why he's sought out his father's first protege and what's happened to him over the past 20 years as he and Roy develop a mentor/mentee relationship.

 

Is it possible that William went to Lian Yu so Roy would train him???

[Chaser]

I wonder how much suspense this season can build if we know everyone gets old cause of the flash forwards. 

[Featherhat]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wonder how much suspense this season can build if we know everyone gets old cause of the flash forwards. 

Oh I'm sure Felicity will be at least hinted at as dead/missing or she and Oliver are no longer together or something. So they can drag out the suspence as long as possible/omg!why does that happen or create twists. Same goes for Diggle. NTA I don't care but I'm apprehensive about Thea with Roy on Lian Yu. Not to mention Oliver potentially creating a bond with Emiko so Thea might become more expendable in off screen ville.

[kes0704]

If the flash forwards reveal all members of NTA present and accounted for I’m going to be deeply disappointed. Realistically, a part of me knows they probably aren’t going to let them go but it’s always nice to have that hope. ?

[apinknightmare]

JH's comments about everyone in the flash forwards looking "old" made me LOL - they're going to be late forties/early fifties at that point? I hope they don't age these people up to look like Oliver did on LoT when realistically they'd just have some more grey hair (and not even necessarily that!) and some more wrinkles. 

[insomniadreams88]

Yeah, I’m expecting there to be some mystery surrounding Felicity/Olicity - just enough to satisfy both fans and haters. You know, a hint that she and Oliver could still be alive/together, but also leaving it open so some people can go, “maybe we’ll get GA and BC - any BC, as long as her name includes Laurel or Dinah, doesn’t matter what Earth/time period/etc. - together.”

I expect future Felicity to be one of the last present-day characters we see/hear about in any terms that reveal she’s alive in the flash-forwards. 

[apinknightmare]

Since the flash forwards are going to be a permanent fixture for the rest of the series, I wonder how long they'll even keep up any suspense about any of the current team? I suppose they could keep it up for a while, but if they're going to be bringing in a new crop of people that we're supposed to be invested in in the future, I'd rather get invested in those people through their relationships with the current team in the future rather than relying on keeping up suspense with Felicity/Olicity for an extended period of time. 

[way2interested]

The same thought was had for 601 after the island thing and heck I even thought that Felicity would be last too originally in 701, but it seems pretty clear that they don't care about dragging mysteries concerning Felicity, even making her the only other character who couldn't be in grave back in s4. From the way Beth is phrasing the flashforwards, I'm partially thinking that she just wants to use the present characters in the future for world building not for plot.

Stakes for future dangers will definitely have to be changed though. Like, now William can never in real danger, so now I'm guessing that 704 is going to be more about how far Felicity is willing to go to get Diaz rather than William being in danger 

Edited October 21, 2018 by way2interested

[DrSpaceman10]

How awful that OTA got stuck with Dinah and presumably the rest of the noobs for 20 years, eek.  I wouldn't blame Oliver or Felicity for going "missing" in the future timeline, if that's what's happened. 

[scarynikki12]

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Since the flash forwards are going to be a permanent fixture for the rest of the series, I wonder how long they'll even keep up any suspense about any of the current team? I suppose they could keep it up for a while, but if they're going to be bringing in a new crop of people that we're supposed to be invested in in the future, I'd rather get invested in those people through their relationships with the current team in the future rather than relying on keeping up suspense with Felicity/Olicity for an extended period of time. 

I think they'll drag it out a bit but I doubt there will be any question by season's end.  They revealed Felicity was alive mid season 4 so my guess is that they'll do the same this season and then reveal the status of their relationship by May.  Until then we'll get a lot of hints that can go either way to keep people talking and Maya will likely be the first big reveal.

[Velocity23]

sorry i doubt the noobs really are that much around. Because why would william be visiting Roy who apparently did not have any contact with the Smoak Queen family throughout the years. 

And honestly i dont get why people always bring up that they might do BC/GA hints when they havent done that since s2. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

22 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Stakes for future dangers will definitely have to be changed though. Like, now William can never in real danger, so now I'm guessing that 704 is going to be more about how far Felicity is willing to go to get Diaz rather than William being in danger 

This is why I don't like flash forwards/flash backs in storytelling. The urgency is always lost in one or the other, and honestly only a few characters on this show are interesting enough for me to even care about whether they're alive in the future and what happened to them in the intervening years. It's especially bad when it's sprung on you in the middle of a run, unlike something like This is Us where you know what you're in for from the beginning. 

Dual timelines have only ever worked well once for me, and that is in my favorite book in the world, written by an immensely talented writer and even then it only worked because one of the timelines involved a fictionalized group of people and it took you half the book to even figure out who they were LOL. I don't know if Arrow can pull it off, and IDK if I'm looking forward to them trying it. I guess I'll okay with it if we learn that Oliver and Felicity's life together hasn't been relentless suffering and we get to see a kid of theirs (or two). 

[apinknightmare]

Quote

“She’s always sort of struggling with the line between good and evil, and she lies somewhere in between that. With Quentin’s death, she’s definitely been affected in terms of she wants to live her life how Quentin would’ve wanted her to, but the Black Siren in her is always going to exist,” says Schwartz. “Also, she has not forgotten about Diaz and how her father died, so she will definitely be wanting to seek revenge for Quentin’s death.”

Why, Beth. Why?

[KenyaJ]

I actually did watch this video during SDCC, but I totally missed this moment. But yeah, the way SA looks at EBR and that little face he makes behind his mike t 1:27 . . . if Maya isn't Oliciity's daughter, I will eat my hat.

[BkWurm1]

Flash forwards aren't sustainable especially when you can't catch up.  And I don't love short jumps either since as we saw in season 4 there were tonal issues that didn't match up.

But if they stick to a narrow story in the future, like maybe this year only what happens with Roy and a glimpse of the other Smoak-Queens, maybe next year they could tell Zoe's origin story of when her dad died while exploring what William and Maya are up to as well.

[insomniadreams88]

Every time someone describes Lance as BS’ father, I start feeling bad for E2 Lance. It’s like he didn’t exist/matter except to use his death as an excuse for her becoming evil. 

[KenyaJ]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Why, Beth. Why?

Seriously. This drives me crazy. I'm gonna have "He wasn't her father!!!!!!!" carved on my headstone.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, KenyaJ said:

Seriously. This drives me crazy. I'm gonna have "He wasn't her father!!!!!!!" carved on my headstone.

Look, I can deal with a lot of inconsistencies and bad writing on this show, but I will NOT BE GASLIT, BETH. Give this woman her own identity FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

[Mary0360]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

From Circa POP Live interview with Katherine McNamara on Oct. 19...

-- On what it's like being part of Arrow now, KM: "I feel very fortunate... It's amazing. It's such great family. I mean, I've shot my first episode and they've been so welcoming and so wonderful. And, uh, it's a very exciting character, very different from Clary on Shadowhunters, sort of the antithesis of everything she was, um, which is really cool. And - and fun for me as an actor to do something different."

Anyone watched Shadow Hunters? What was Clary like?- if Maya is suppose to be the total opposite. 

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Anyone watched Shadow Hunters? What was Clary like?- if Maya is suppose to be the total opposite. 

I never watched the show, since I heard it was a mess, except for a clip, but I did read the books. She's kind of an artistic/creative, act first ask questions later, always wants to be involved type. She's not the main fighter (her main trait was that she was always underestimated), kind of a catalyst character more than a super active character (though the show changed a major point at the end of one book to make her a more active physical character instead of when she used her creativity to save the day).

Kind of reads to me that the opposite would be the loner badass fighter type.

[jay741982]

15 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Anyone watched Shadow Hunters? What was Clary like?- if Maya is suppose to be the total opposite. 

Yeah Seriously! If she is Olicity Daughter I wanna like her 

[Primal Slayer]

While E1 Quentin is a version of her father, I just look at it as her looking at him as a father figure by the end of the season but their wording should be better but isnt surprising at how lazy it is. Its funny that last year was very doppleganger heavy on television and seeing how all the different shows dealt with them and will deal with them this season so I cant wait to see how Arrow does it compared to the likes of Supernatural and ST:D. 

[jay741982]

11 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I never watched the show, since I heard it was a mess, except for a clip, but I did read the books. She's kind of an artistic/creative, act first ask questions later, always wants to be involved type. She's not the main fighter (her main trait was that she was always underestimated), kind of a catalyst character more than a super active character (though the show changed a major point at the end of one book to make her a more active physical character instead of when she used her creativity to save the day).

Kind of reads to me that the opposite would be the loner badass fighter type.

I can see with this show and these writers they have Maya be a loner cause Olicity are "Dead" Or Missing and she blames the Vilgante life. Or they copy The Flash and have Oliver "dead" or Missing and Maya and Felicity are strained cause of it. Or make Oliver look bad implying he left Felicity and Maya

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

While E1 Quentin is a version of her father, I just look at it as her looking at him as a father figure by the end of the season but their wording should be better but isnt surprising at how lazy it is.

If I hadn't watched last season, I'd believe that the wording was the issue. But there was a whole storyline about Quentin encouraging her to be his Laurel, encouraging her to use his Laurel's identity to go out and get a job, Laurel calling him Dad. There's no doubt in my mind that Beth meant what she said, and intends the audience to see it that way.

[Guest]

This is why I'm conflicted about the flashforwards. Love the thought of seeing Olicity's daughter but even remotely hinting that Olicity aren't together in the future would have me waving goodbye to this show for good. So I hope they don't go there. It doesn't make any sense to me to build up Olicity as this married, always-connected-even-when-they're-apart type of couple in the present only to mess with that in the future but who knows? I just assumed the mystery of the flashforwards would keep us guessing Oliver and Felicity's fates (and maybe even Diggle) perhaps until midseason and then it's more about introducing legacy characters that we'd actually care about (because they're linked to the show's faves).

As for the article, it says the Longbow Hunters are each gonna have one team member they go after specifically. I know Felicity is after Diaz but I'd like her to get involved with the big bads rather than more focus go to the NTA assholes. I despise them!

Also the fact that they're saying BS struggles with the line between good and evil is hilarious. Still waiting for that good. LMAO.

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

I can see with this show and these writers they have Maya be a loner cause Olicity are "Dead" Or Missing and she blames the Vilgante life. Or they copy The Flash and have Oliver "dead" or Missing and Maya and Felicity are strained cause of it. Or make Oliver look bad implying he left Felicity and Maya

Nah, SA probably filmed a future scene. I'm going with she just doesn't want to join the family business to parallel William and Emiko who look like they want to take part in the fight.

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Also the fact that they're saying BS struggles with the line between good and evil is hilarious. Still waiting for that good.

This. We need to see BS actually do some good that isn’t trying to stop Diaz after working with him or pretending to be E1 LL and basically being credited with all the good E1 LL did. Something that in no way helps her. 

[Guest]

This has just confirmed to me that they have absolutely no idea what to do with BS. These were legit the same talking points from last season. They're not even gonna try.

It would honestly be better if we learned she was playing everyone from the start and she really is just evil Laurel. Just stop with this lame redemption nonsense. It's so boring and not in KC's wheelhouse at all. 

[bijoux]

To be honest, I automatically assumed it would be Oliver's fate in the balance in the flash forwards since William tracks down Roy, a dude with a skill set comparable to Oliver's. I imagine Felicity would come out of the shadow earlier. In my scenario, tracking William down to the island. How did you find me? [pan over to the hozen] You put a tracker in the hozen before I left? - Don't be absurd, I put a tracker in when I gave it to you 20 years ago. Yes, I know about the trip to Tijuana your sophmore year. 

As for the new bads, Silencer has to be set up with Dinah, I assume. I am most displeased this would mean she'd have a foe, but do hope the Silencer actually silences her for an episode at the least. 

[olicityfan25]

32 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This has just confirmed to me that they have absolutely no idea what to do with BS. These were legit the same talking points from last season. They're not even gonna try.

It would honestly be better if we learned she was playing everyone from the start and she really is just evil Laurel. Just stop with this lame redemption nonsense. It's so boring and not in KC's wheelhouse at all. 

It would just be better if she was off the show. This character doesn't bring anything new and they obviously don't know what to do with her so they should have never let her back on.