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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel


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33 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I laughed at how they were framing the whole scene as "look how she hates vigilantes! She's super suspicious" while she's hanging out doing some --framed as secret, underground and presumably against William's group who we're supposed to root for--thing with JJ...who's dad was just deputized as a vigilante in the documentary she was just watching. Idk how they'll frame it, but it's hilarious to try to take it at face value.

Plus she hates vigilantes so much she tracked down a 20 year old all copies destroyed video that shows how great vigilantes are? 

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9 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I took the fact that she came back as Overwatch to mean just that, that she's back as Overwatch. I'm not going to jump to a 23 second promo to tell me "nvm" after they put it in the actual show.

Oh I have no doubts she’s back as Overwatch. I did actually watch the episode. I’m just annoyed they are all there discussing the case except for Felicity. I don’t want her to be stuck in the apartment getting updates from Oliver. 

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3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Plus she hates vigilantes so much she tracked down a 20 year old all copies destroyed video that shows how great vigilantes are? 

She *had* to find that lair for her sketchy plans, man!

9 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Oh I have no doubts she’s back as Overwatch. I did actually watch the episode. I’m just annoyed they are all there discussing the case except for Felicity. I don’t want her to be stuck in the apartment getting updates from Oliver. 

Fair enough for generalization, but I figure at least for next week it looks more like they want Stan to get the jump on Oliver and Felicity for dramatics sakes rather than "Felicity is stuck at home waiting for updates"

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21 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

So this is why JH was cackling at the beginning of the season. She's all over this show like a meningococcal rash.

I'm at the point where I'm wondering if EBR has some deal for minimal screentime so she won't need to work instead of pay rises because she too is over this shit show. All other conspiracy theories have been exhausted.

I'm at that Point in a way. Thinking NTA is shoved down our throats cause EBR SA and DR wanted an easier load but it's making the show worse 

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1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

So this is why JH was cackling at the beginning of the season. She's all over this show like a meningococcal rash.

I'm at the point where I'm wondering if EBR has some deal for minimal screen time so she won't need to work instead of pay rises because she too is over this shit show. All other conspiracy theories have been exhausted.

I also have to remind myself how little Dinah actually did in 7a.  Even the FFs were mostly exposition.  This is the time of the year when the canary de jour gets more attention.  I guess being the 150th didn't matter.

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This should be in the bitter thread but it's a spoiler so I will whinge here! I am sick of Felicity patting Oliver while he's looking dead eyed (713 stills).

Is it going to be a trend where he will sulk for the rest of the season and she will keep patting him?

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14 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is it going to be a trend where he will sulk for the rest of the season and she will keep patting him?

Yes, probably, because Oliver has always withdrawn physically when he's stressed and hurting and Felicity has always offered him more affection during those times. And, sadly for us, he's stressed and hurting more often than not because Arrow is Arrow. 

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He doesn't need to look perky or have heart eyes. Just don't look like he's perpetually sulking in a scene. Other shows have couples where one party is doing it real rough and the acting is not like this.

Yes yes I know......CW acting/writing. I will mentally prepare for the rest of the gloomy seasons for as long as I last.

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1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

He doesn't need to look perky or have heart eyes. Just don't look like he's perpetually sulking in a scene. Other shows have couples where one party is doing it real rough and the acting is not like this.

Yes yes I know......CW acting/writing. I will mentally prepare for the rest of the gloomy seasons for as long as I last.

I do agree that Stephen has been phoning in some of his performances this season. Sure it's the CW but the dude is making $125,000 an Ep and seems to be given time off every second weekend to go on holidays...he could put in effort.

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1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes, probably, because Oliver has always withdrawn physically when he's stressed and hurting and Felicity has always offered him more affection during those times. And, sadly for us, he's stressed and hurting more often than not because Arrow is Arrow. 

Only going off that publicity still, which admittedly isn't much, i kind of see Felicity playing mediator between the two, trying to get them to talk/listen to each other.

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So I came across some fan speculation about the 713 promo that seemingly shows Dinah getting her throat cut, which is why she has a scar on her throat in the flashforwards. Furthermore, this speculation went on to theorize that Dinah loses her canary cry as a result in the present day, leading to E2 Laurel becoming the Black Canary (thus forsaking her Black Siren persona) when she's permanently redeemed. You can see where this is going... 

Edited by tv echo
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Curtis' line about being a team "even if it was for the last time" coupled with him apparently not being part of the stupid tattoo and Echo having had unCurtis-like facial hair for a while strikes me as fairly ominous and I'm not actually sure how I'd feel about it. While I really liked Curtis in Season 4 and early season 5, eventually everytime Curtis opened his mouth my mind translated it to "please, punch me in the face," so I'm mostly okay with it but at the same time he appears to be the only Team Arrow-adjacent person at ARGUS to have retained their sanity where Diaz/The Ghost Initiative is concerned so losing him could be very bad in terms of not releasing the annoying, mumbly, murdery nutbar.

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https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-kat-mcnamara-blackstar-past-anti-vigilante-mentality/

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Last we saw, Blackstar broke into the old Arrow Cave while telling Connor Hawke (Joseph David Jones) that vigilantes were the death of Star City and they all got what they deserved — which has apparently been nothing but ruin and misery. So why is she so anti-vigilante? McNamara says we'll find out more when we uncover some key details about her past.

"[That attitude] comes from how she was raised," McNamara told TV Guide at the Television Critics Association winter press tour, "and the environment in which she was raised. She was brought up in a very harsh world and a world that we haven't seen a lot of or heard a lot about and there's still a lot to discover. I can tell you next week's episode will have some answers."

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I’ve been wondering why John Jr would be going by Connor instead. Since Star City is anti-vigilante to the point they ban media about them (which is a ridiculous idea if SC is still part of the US, but whatever) maybe he changed his name to hide his relationship to his dad, a well known vigilante. Zoe gets to keep her name because it looks like she lives in the Glades, where vigilantes are celebrated. 

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11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I’ve been wondering why John Jr would be going by Connor instead. Since Star City is anti-vigilante to the point they ban media about them (which is a ridiculous idea if SC is still part of the US, but whatever) maybe he changed his name to hide his relationship to his dad, a well known vigilante. Zoe gets to keep her name because it looks like she lives in the Glades, where vigilantes are celebrated. 

Yeah, this is what I was figuring too. It just still leaves a loose thread with "Mia," with her being with JJ, since that would mean that either she and JJ have some sort of mutual understanding over her hatred of people like his dad (like, I guess he's chill with her saying Diggle got what he deserved in a sketchy way), she doesn't know who JJ really is, she's in on it in some way, or some whole other thing is going on. 

Edited by way2interested
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1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Star City is anti-vigilante to the point they ban media about them (which is a ridiculous idea if SC is still part of the US, but whatever)

At the time I was willing to accept the passing line about it being banned but yeah, this makes no sense.  Maybe ban playing it in public.  They could say it insights violence or something but supposedly tracking down and destroying every copy of the film?  Is the whole world a dumpster fire except for the Glades? 

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1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I’ve been wondering why John Jr would be going by Connor instead. Since Star City is anti-vigilante to the point they ban media about them (which is a ridiculous idea if SC is still part of the US, but whatever) maybe he changed his name to hide his relationship to his dad, a well known vigilante. Zoe gets to keep her name because it looks like she lives in the Glades, where vigilantes are celebrated. 

Maybe that's why Maya is Mia?

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Lol, it's one of the reasons I still think she's their kid. It makes things more complicated! Just like every FF!

Maybe Maya doesnt know her Parents were Vilgantes? Maybe they left the Vilgante life?

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53 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

At the time I was willing to accept the passing line about it being banned but yeah, this makes no sense.  Maybe ban playing it in public.  They could say it insights violence or something but supposedly tracking down and destroying every copy of the film?  Is the whole world a dumpster fire except for the Glades? 

Yes because Rene is just totes awesome and single handedly shielded the Glades. He's more powerful than Thanos didn't you know!

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I hate feeling super negative about the show so I was thinking about some positives.

7x13 could be Curtis' last episode. 

If that's the case, EK will not be at SDCC and we will be spared EK/EBR. 

Yay!

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CH, DR, SA are all fine with me. I do hope that someone has a conversation with EBR about professionalism in the interviews. I don't want a repeat of the last couple SDCC.

Back on spoiler talk. I've been watching Fringe again and they do a dumpster fire Future with the Leads and their adult daughter. They end the series by making sure the future never happens and they live happy ever after.

I wonder if they are setting something similar up with the Crossover. In the Current Future timeline, Oliver sacrifices himself for the world. Everything goes to hell. Then next season, Oliver is saved somehow and we jump to different Flash Forwards. 

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1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I wonder if they are setting something similar up with the Crossover. In the Current Future timeline, Oliver sacrifices himself for the world. Everything goes to hell. Then next season, Oliver is saved somehow and we jump to different Flash Forwards. 

I hope so because otherwise the FF are making it difficult to want to keep watching. I know Beth said the FF are fixed, but has she addressed the criticisms that such a bleak future kind of makes the show obsolete? Other than "keep watching" or some variation of that. I understand she's against spoilers, but come on!

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3 hours ago, Chaser said:

I wonder if they are setting something similar up with the Crossover. In the Current Future timeline, Oliver sacrifices himself for the world. Everything goes to hell. Then next season, Oliver is saved somehow and we jump to different Flash Forwards. 

Yes - I'm of the theory that Oliver dies in the crossover, but is brought back before the end of S8, and once he returns the FF change.  But this is also tied up in me thinking/hoping that S8 is the last season.

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https://tvline.com/2019/02/06/arrow-season-7-preview-katherine-mcnamara-blackstar-flash-forwards/

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TVLINE | I keep trying to figure out who Blackstar is related to. Future William didn’t recognize you, so you can’t share parents unless something weird is at play. And I suggested to [showrunner] Beth [Schwartz] point blank, since Roy was conspicuously absent when first met Blackstar, she must be his daughter — but Beth said no, Roy doesn’t know her.
No, he doesn’t. Beth’s so good at keeping secrets. There are still things that I don’t know that I try to get out of her, but I can’t. It’s really interesting what they’re doing. It’s both fascinating and heart-wrenching and it really shows how dire the world has become 20 years into the future.

Well, she doesn't say anything about the William part of the Q... 

Also:

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TVLINE | I understand we will be getting an all-future episode (Episode 16, titled “Star City 2040”)….
We are, indeed. I just finished shooting it like two days ago.

TVLINE | How many bombshells are dropped in it?
A lot. I have three fights in that episode, but there are also a lot of bombshells dropped.

TVLINE | How many is “a lot?” Three? Five?
Oh god, just thinking back, there are too many to count. But I’m in Episode 13 (airing this Monday, Feb. 11), 14 and 15 as well, and there are multiple bombshells dropped from this point forward. What you saw at the end of the 150th episode [with Mia and Connor Hawke locating the decrepit bunker] is just the beginning. It’s the tip of the iceberg. Actually, this coming Monday is a huge episode for the future storyline. There’s at least one massive bomb drop this Monday.

Edited by insomniadreams88
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28 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

https://tvline.com/2019/02/06/arrow-season-7-preview-katherine-mcnamara-blackstar-flash-forwards/

Well, she doesn't say anything about the William part of the Q... 

Also:

I do admit with these writers I wouldnt be too surprised if they try to make Oliver and Felicity seem like shitty parents to their possible daughter. But with KM saying multiple bombshells how much of my possible theories are on point 

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35 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

OMG the flash forwards are multiplying, noooooooooo

At least we'll start getting answers. The most frustrating thing was the secrecy/mystery so if 13-16 start unraveling everything I'll be happy.

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Isn't 714 the one titled "Brothers & Sisters"? I'm assuming that at the end of 713, we'll find out who Mia is related to, presumably, so that the title can be about the present and future timeline. Especially since they can't keep the 714 title secret until 714 airs. 

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11 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Isn't 714 the one titled "Brothers & Sisters"? I'm assuming that at the end of 713, we'll find out who Mia is related to, presumably, so that the title can be about the present and future timeline. Especially since they can't keep the 714 title secret until 714 airs. 

Yep, and the title shouldn't be "officially" released with the press release until next Thursday/Friday after the episode I think, assuming there's 2 week break after 713.

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Matt tries to see if there is any wiggle room about the flash forwards but KM just shuts him down, much like Beth did with her “it’s a fixed future” comment. I don’t know who thought this would be a good way to market the show, but they’re wrong. Basically whatever wins the team may get in the next couple of seasons, it won’t matter because it’s all turning to shit and no one can stop it. 🤦‍♀️ 

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TVLINE | Which frankly has the fans a bit worried. How can we prevent this bleak future? But…
You can’t. It’s very different than the [Season 1] episode of Legends you saw, where you saw the future of Arrow.

TVLINE | Which is where Joseph David-Jones first played Diggle’s son, Connor Hawke.
Exactly. This is a very different future, and it’s one that is what it is.

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I have to say it’s really hard to maintain a level of enthusiasm when the city in 20 years time is described as heart wrenching and dire and the bleak future can’t be prevented. 

At the moment the present day timeline is pretty joyless and the future timeline looks hopeless.

In any case, I hope they start moving the plot along a bit faster because it feels like it’s standing still with whatever is supposed to be going on with the Dante plot and the slowness of the future mystery reveal is currently more aggravating than intriguing to me. 

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1 hour ago, Trisha said:

Matt tries to see if there is any wiggle room about the flash forwards but KM just shuts him down, much like Beth did with her “it’s a fixed future” comment. I don’t know who thought this would be a good way to market the show, but they’re wrong. Basically whatever wins the team may get in the next couple of seasons, it won’t matter because it’s all turning to shit and no one can stop it. 🤦‍♀️ 

At this point I'm clinging to straws and hoping KM just doesn't know about the get out of jail free card that might be the crossover.  But at the same time, would they do something that would render all the FF's pointless?  

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34 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

At this point I'm clinging to straws and hoping KM just doesn't know about the get out of jail free card that might be the crossover.  But at the same time, would they do something that would render all the FF's pointless?  

I don't know, it seems like it would be a weird choice but currently the FF's make the entire show seem fairly pointless so either way I don't really get it. If I was in charge, I'd rather render a season or so of occasional FF's pointless then risk ruining any rewatchability by making everything the characters have ever done or fought for pointless but I don't know if Beth feels the same way.

Edited by JamieLynn832002
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Katherine McNamara Talks 'Arrow' Fan Theories on Who She's Really Playing (Exclusive)
By Philiana Ng‍ 2:57 PM PST, February 8, 2019
https://www.etonline.com/katherine-mcnamara-talks-arrow-fan-theories-on-who-shes-really-playing-exclusive-119211

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The secrecy surrounding Katherine McNamara's Arrow character has only grown as the season has unfolded. But, McNamara promises, answers to who she's actually playing -- and her relationship to key characters on the superhero drama -- will finally start coming on Monday.
*  *  *
"I love seeing what people come up with. Die-hard fans of the show and of the comics are so creative and they look at every little detail and figure things out that I didn’t even notice were there. It's the same thing with Shadowhunters," she told ET at the Disney-ABC party earlier this week at the Television Critics Association press tour, citing her ending Freeform series. "Our fans are so amazing and so wonderful that seeing the enthusiasm for every little detail, for every point, for every essence of every second that you do is wonderful. I always find it fascinating what they pick, what they don’t and what they interpret from it."
*  *  *
"Getting to be the clinch ending of the 150th episode was awesome. It was a huge honor. It was so wonderful," McNamara mused. "I thought it was so interesting to show relationships that you know and you have seen for so many seasons so intimately -- to put it in a different perspective as a celebration of what the show is. I thought it was really lovely, and it’s a great set-up for what’s coming for Blackstar and what’s coming to the future storyline. There are many things that I cannot say, but there are many questions that will be answered on Monday."

While McNamara played coy about the forthcoming revelations surrounding Blackstar, which kick into high gear in Monday's episode, titled "Star City Slayer," she hinted that every morsel of information that does come out over the rest of the season will be game-changing. In fact, there will be an entire episode, "Star City 2040," dedicated to the future storyline. 

"The character is only growing and everything’s opening up more and more. There will be much more revealed very soon," McNamara promised. "All I can say is many answers to many questions happen on Monday, so just hang on ‘til Monday and then I can talk about it!"

Edited by tv echo
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EXCLUSIVE: Katherine McNamara talks ‘Shadowhunters’ and ‘Arrow’ [INTERVIEW]
Meg Bonney    February 8, 2019
https://www.purefandom.com/2019/02/08/exclusive-katherine-mcnamara-talks-shadowhunters-and-arrow-interview/

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I can’t wait! So, staying on the topic of Arrow. One of the burning questions in the fandom is the question of Blackstar’s origin – specifically who her parents are. Is that something that we will find out the answer to soon?
Hmmmm. There are many questions about Blackstar and her past – and many of those questions will be answered on Monday (February 11th, a new episode of Arrow airs)! So, it’s a very pertinent time to be discussing all of this, but yes. There will be answers, maybe not all of the answers, but at least I can promise that as the season continues, every episode you will find out a little bit more and so will Blackstar. Because there’s a lot she finds that even she didn’t know.

Edited by tv echo
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1 hour ago, tv echo said:

There will be answers, maybe not all of the answers, but at least I can promise that as the season continues, every episode you will find out a little bit more and so will Blackstar. Because there’s a lot she finds that even she didn’t know.

Oh lord. Seriously?  It comes off as in the context of her origins but maybe it’s just the Felicity mystery?  Otherwise I’m going to now get on the snatched from birth bandwagon and that’s a the biggest dumpster fire I wanted to avoid.

Edited to say the “Read more” function for quotes is already starting to bug me.  It was only two sentences!

Edited by BkWurm1
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12 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Oh lord. Seriously?  It comes off as in the context of her origins but maybe it’s just the Felicity mystery?  Otherwise I’m going to now get on the snatched from birth bandwagon and that’s a the biggest dumpster fire I wanted to avoid.

Edited to say the “Read more” function for quotes is already starting to bug me.  It was only two sentences!

Since their aim this season is to sh@t on everything good for Olicity I can't decide whether "snatched from birth" is worse that "Olicity were crap parents".

Although "snatched from birth" means that they could go down an eternal route of Olicity angst where the loss of their kid haunts their relationship forever.

Unless she gets snatched from 2. That could give them at least 2 years of some nice family moments (unlikely since it seems like Beth fancies herself as a bit of a dark artist to tell depressing stories).

Haha I actually asked my 6yo about this and he says he remembers everything from around 3 onwards and could ID us if he was snatched at 3 but not at 2 yrs.

Edited by Mellowyellow
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Since they make Olicity Suffer while their favs the Newbies get decent lifes while they still bitch and act like OTA was in the wrong I'm expecting a "Mia is Olicity's baby and was taken from them at an early age" BS cause of Course Rene gets to Raise Zoe but Felicity and Oliver get their little girl stolen from them. 

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Hmmm...I’m not sure I’m jumping to “he’s going to live with her” right away but it is interesting that it seems like Samantha’s family is being introduced at this particular moment. 

https://twitter.com/olicitysizzles/status/1094360040541245442

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It's certainly possible that Stanley scares Olicity enough to send Will to live with his grandparents. Also possible that Will chooses to leave SC to go live with his grandparents and then blames Olicity for abandoning him (does seem something a teen would do, although carrying that into his 30s is dumb).

It's also (also) possible that Stanley kills/targets Samantha's parents. 

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So Oliver and Felicity get William back and they’re going to have to send him away again? Maybe they’ll transition William going to live with his grandparents to a FF revealing Mia’s Olicity’s daughter to suggest that’s why he didn’t recognize her and suggest that’s when Oliver and Felicity “abandon” William, though he’ll probably appear in the present again, just like they seemed to want us to think they never saw him again in the present when they first had William and Roy talk about Oliver and Felicity abandoning him. 

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