Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[wonderwall]

Shit, even Felicity fucked Ray before him-don't get me started on that bullshit because it makes me hate her a little.  

 

To be fair, Felicity would've been screwing Oliver this whole time if he didn't shoot himself in his own foot. She really would've. She would've been there for him. She would've supported him. But Oliver didn't allow that. He made the decision to end things for the both of them. And in the end he couldn't even respect her wishes to give her a clean break from him (but he had his reasons. He simply couldn't because of just how much he loves her. It's difficult to let the things you love go).

 

Why is it that people are so angry about Felicity sleeping with another guy, but not angry at Oliver for dangling maybes in front of her for so long? Oliver shut Felicity out of his life. What, does she have to remain celibate until Oliver thinks he's ready? Perish the thought. 

[catrox14]

For me, it's not anger that Felicity got herself some. It's a matter of who she is choosing to get that some from. It's like Rachel with Not!Ross.  Ray is Not!Oliver.

[wonderwall]

For me, it's not anger that Felicity got herself some. It's a matter of who she is choosing to get that some from. It's like Rachel with Not!Ross.  Ray is Not!Oliver.

 

But doesn't that sort of prove to you just how much she loves Oliver? She thoroughly believes she can't have him because of the position he puts himself in constantly as well as because he simply won't allow it to the point where she thinks that he regrets that kiss they shared in episode one, so what she does is she finds a guy like Oliver. It's sort of like my relationship with Ice cream. I love it. Can't have it. So I go for the next best thing which is fro-yo. In the end, though, if I could have Ice cream, I'd dump the fro yo into the nearest waste basket and dig into the ice cream. 

 

After years of being terminally single, I think it's healthy for Felicity to want to feel wanted for once, to feel loved, to want someone to want to be with her and actually be with her. YES she doesn't need a man or a relationship, but can you blame her for wanting to not come to an empty home once in a while? It's human to want to be needed, to be wanted, to want to feel loved. 

 

In the end, it goes like this: 

 

 

But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. 

Edited March 13, 2015 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

Since she has never actually told Oliver she loves him, even though I think she does, it's coming across to me that she's in love with the idea of the hero more than the man himself.  Which upsets me because it's too much like Laurel with the Arrow.

[wonderwall]

Since she has never actually told Oliver she loves him, even though I think she does, it's coming across to me that she's in love with the idea of the hero more than the man himself.  Which upsets me because it's too much like Laurel with the Arrow.

 

I guess I don't think she needs to tell him she loves him. I think that when it comes to love, she's pretty blind and doesn't acknowledge those feelings. I just don't think that Felicity knows just how much she loves Oliver. That or I think she's protecting herself from her feelings for Oliver by repressing the hell out of it. Because loving Oliver the way he is right now? It hurts. I can't blame her for that. I think it all depends on how the season will end in terms of Raylicity and Olicity.

 

You should read a meta I read on tumblr which is quite fantastic. Here's an excerpt and a link:

 

Felicity has gotten the Oliver facsimile. Ray is smart, sexy, handsome, rich, believes in her like the way Oliver S1/2 was happy to show. Basically the writers have gone out of their way to make Ray Oliver 2.0… and Felicity bagged the guy. She got it all. That should make her happy, right? She got the handsome, rich, brilliant guy who wants to save the world. Only, I’m pretty confident in saying that Felicity is going to have her moment of realisation that none of those things matter. She isn’t in love with Oliver because he’s gorgeous or rich or looking to save the world. She’s in love with him because he’s Oliver. No trimmings, no added extras like abs that you could cut diamonds on.

Felicity just loves Oliver.

 

The man. His soul. Stripped down bare, nothing else, she just loves Oliver. Not the hero, not the savior, not the person looking to redeem himself, not the front he gives to other people when he’s trying to give them what he thinks they want of him.

 

Felicity. Just. Loves. Oliver.

 

The man.

You can put as many trimmings on tofurkey as you want, but it’s still not turkey, it’s bloody tofu shaped like turkey and surrounded by roast vegetables and covered in gravy. Felicity is going to work out soon enough that she doesn’t want the substitute, no matter how much better it promises to be for her health - physical, mental and emotional. She wants the straight to your thighs, belly busting real deal. She wants her turkey… she wants Oliver. - Source

 

You should read the whole thing. It's pretty great. 

Edited March 13, 2015 by wonderwall

[lemotomato]

I guess I don't think she needs to tell him she loves him. I think that when it comes to love, she's pretty blind and doesn't acknowledge those feelings. I just don't think that Felicity knows just how much she loves Oliver. That or I think she's protecting herself from her feelings for Oliver by repressing the hell out of it. Because loving Oliver the way he is right now? It hurts. I can't blame her for that. I think it all depends on how the season will end in terms of Raylicity and Olicity.

 

You should read a meta I read on tumblr which is quite fantastic. Here's an excerpt and a link:

 

 

You should read the whole thing. It's pretty great. 

Responding in the relationships thread

[AyChihuahua]

 

I guess I don't think she needs to tell him she loves him. I think that when it comes to love, she's pretty blind and doesn't acknowledge those feelings. I just don't think that Felicity knows just how much she loves Oliver.

Why so okay with excusing and rationalizing Felicity's issues, but not Oliver's?  So many people have Felicity on a pedestal and think she can do no wrong, although she's done legitimately crappy and thoughtless things this year too.  And, because Oliver has hurt her, he can do no right.  They're both quite screwed up and at this point a bit ridiculous, but they are BOTH screwed up.

[wonderwall]

Why so okay with excusing and rationalizing Felicity's issues, but not Oliver's?  So many people have Felicity on a pedestal and think she can do no wrong, although she's done legitimately crappy and thoughtless things this year too.  And, because Oliver has hurt her, he can do no right.  They're both quite screwed up and at this point a bit ridiculous, but they are BOTH screwed up.

 

I've never excused or rationalized Felicity's mistakes/ issues (her helping Laurel with Lance was shitty, her telling Oliver he had no feelings in episode 2 was shitty, her using Anna in an argument with Ray was shitty. I have never for once defended her about those things). I think she's done some pretty problematic things this season.

 

HOWEVER, I have been defending her because I feel like a lot of people are unfairly criticizing her character without really thinking things from her POV. We already understand Oliver and his POV because his emotions have been more explicitly shown on screen. I understand Oliver's POV. I'm not saying he's a terrible person. I just don't defend him on this board because barely anyone on this board criticizes Oliver's actions regarding Felicity. Sure people criticize Oliver's decisions regarding Malcolm and Ra's, but never his decisions/actions regarding Felicity which is why I've never defended him (I simply didn't have the need to). I get Oliver is going through an identity crisis. I understand why he dangles maybes instead of fully lets Felicity go. I get all of that. If someone started criticizing Oliver for his actions regarding Felicity I would defend him. 

 

I'm not picking sides in this whole debacle. I'm just trying to help people understand Felicity's decisions. 

[calliope1975]

Crazy situations come up, but I think I know what the characters will do and how they'll react. Not with this show anymore. A should lead to B, but with Arrow, A leads to 7.

 

At this point, you could tell me Digg abandons Lyla and his baby to open a taco stand in Mexico, and I'd believe it. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by MostlyC
Potential Spoilers

[blixie]

 

 

I think I know what the characters will do and how they'll react. Not with this show anymore. A should lead to B, but with Arrow, A leads to 7.

At this point, you could tell me Digg abandons Lyla and his baby to open a taco stand in Mexico, and I'd believe it.

 

Exactly I can't make myself care about characters who do whatever the plot needs regardless of whether it's consistent with what I know about them and what makes sense for their behavior and character.  

 

I seriously fell over laughing at a recent tumblr response from Guggenheim regarding a return visit from Cooper, Felicity's ex, and his claimed "only if we could make it organic" because BITCH please I have never seen someone care less about organic story telling than you. Season 3 is plot driven inorganic crap from top to bottom, beginning to end.

[statsgirl]

Every time someone asks for Original Team Arrow back, MG says something about them not being in amber or it's good to go beyond that.

 

Creatively, I can understand the need to stretch so that things don't get stale

 

But what MG and the other EPs don't get is that the Oliver/Diggle/Felicity combination was not just the action of the show, it was the heart of the show.  The way many of us connected to it.

 

The Malcolm plotting has been so ridiculous, Ra's is like a villain in a Disney cartoon (everyone is soooo afraid of him but Our Hero will win out) and Laurel still is a reason not to watch for me.  I could have like Ray if he'd only kept his pants on.  I still care about this show but I care wanting to get my old show back, not care about the current characters and what they're doing on it.

[chaos is welcome]

So we are slowly SLOWLY working our way through our episode backlog on hulu, just because they are going to expire soon . . . but lord I am so bitter about how just BLAH they are.  I am so bitter that mediocre is the status quo. The show really hasn't been the same since the msf last season, and now I just want to gouge my eyes out. Hubby fell asleep during 3.13 (Where we currently are). He's probably REALLY going to throw in the towel when he sees phoney stark (man I love that) fly in his ironman knockoff. He won't watch the flash OR iron man with me so I'm pretty sure he's gonna hate that.  I can't feel for malcolm in the emotional whiplash.  Thea is all "We can take on Ras al Ghul" in 12 and then all "But wait, I didn't sign on to be a killer" in 13. 

 

Show, quit making the characters I used to love stupid.  Its pretty much laughable at this point, but I just can't help but be bitter about what could have been. 

[Ang]

Ra's is like a villain in a Disney cartoon (everyone is soooo afraid of him but Our Hero will win out) 

Every time I see or hear about Ra's (or R'as or Rahhhzz or Rache or...) I think I must have missed the episode where a) he was a thing that was b) actually scary. I kind of felt the same way when I watched the Dark Night trilogy, just kind of a, "huh? why do we care about him?" And I'm normally fine with ambiguity/complexity/subtlety/what have you. This villain officially does not work for me.

 

Hubby fell asleep during 3.13 (Where we currently are). He's probably REALLY going to throw in the towel when he sees phoney stark (man I love that) fly in his ironman knockoff. He won't watch the flash OR iron man with me so I'm pretty sure he's gonna hate that.

 

My hubs laughs at me for watching this show (which is probably not the response they want from somebody in what I've heard is their target demographic). It's become a running gag, where if he asks me to put something on for us, I'll suggest an episode of Arrow and he gags or groans or rants against it for being so dumb. And I think the last is the biggest problem I have: you want to make the show appealing to the lowest common denominator, teenagers, whatever? Fine, but don't make it seem like it was WRITTEN by a slow teenager! You can keep things clear and a little obvious without going full OUAT with their whole HEROES and VILLAINS thing, where the writers act like those are the only two words in their collective vocabulary. 

 

I'm really curious how the numbers are holding steady. What kind of new viewers are they getting? 

 

Also, and sorry if this is too spoilery, but there's been some talk of changes. My fondest wish is that what this ACTUALLY meant is that they're eliminating flashbacks unless they're actually relevant to the story being told. There have been a handful of episodes where they were used effectively, but too often they just bring the momentum to a halt and use up time that could be spent actually fleshing things out and making characters and plot points make sense.

[icandigit]

 

My hubs laughs at me for watching this show (which is probably not the response they want from somebody in what I've heard is their target demographic). It's become a running gag, where if he asks me to put something on for us, I'll suggest an episode of Arrow and he gags or groans or rants against it for being so dumb. And I think the last is the biggest problem I have: you want to make the show appealing to the lowest common denominator, teenagers, whatever? Fine, but don't make it seem like it was WRITTEN by a slow teenager!

 

Yeah. I'm kinda curious who is watching this now. The teenager, kid and adults in my family all watch The Flash.

[wonderwall]

Also, who else blames Laurel for Quentin going against his only partner, Arrow? Because I certainly do. Her lie is literally ruining relationships on the show and it's just not her and Quentin's. I simply hate how she was praised by a lot of the online audience when she told him.

[Sasha]

I tried a couple of episodes when it first came out but just couldn't get into it. Oliver seemed like a dick and had zero chemistry with the old girlfriend. Everyone was so humorless. Didn't bother with another episode until the 2 with Barry Allen. I thought they hit a goldmine with that kid but I really fell in love with Felicity. I just loved her from the minute she opened her mouth. I went back and watched every episode I could just for Felicity. I ended up fast forwarding through all the Laurel Lance scenes and pretty much all the flash backs.

I started season three with high hopes for Felicity. And yes got sucked into Felicity and Oliver. I mean damn you just can't ignore that chemistry. Pretty quickly stopped watching live and letting the episodes sit in my dvr. I was a new viewer coming into the third season but I've just about given up. Part of me wishes they would move Felicity over to the Flash or the new show. I'll follow her and easily leave Arrow and the BC bullshit behind. I don't give 2 fucks about the comics or canon. Felicity was fabulous and Diggle. I went from convert to hate watching pretty damn quick.

[Morrigan2575]

Wow that's bad.

[wonderwall]

I tried a couple of episodes when it first came out but just couldn't get into it. Oliver seemed like a dick and had zero chemistry with the old girlfriend. Everyone was so humorless. Didn't bother with another episode until the 2 with Barry Allen. I thought they hit a goldmine with that kid but I really fell in love with Felicity. I just loved her from the minute she opened her mouth. I went back and watched every episode I could just for Felicity. I ended up fast forwarding through all the Laurel Lance scenes and pretty much all the flash backs.

I started season three with high hopes for Felicity. And yes got sucked into Felicity and Oliver. I mean damn you just can't ignore that chemistry. Pretty quickly stopped watching live and letting the episodes sit in my dvr. I was a new viewer coming into the third season but I've just about given up. Part of me wishes they would move Felicity over to the Flash or the new show. I'll follow her and easily leave Arrow and the BC bullshit behind. I don't give 2 fucks about the comics or canon. Felicity was fabulous and Diggle. I went from convert to hate watching pretty damn quick.

 

Lmao welcome to the board, Sasha :) I think you'll find a good home here because not a lot of us, more like 98% of us on this board can't stand what they're doing on the show and a lot of us, including me, have downgraded Arrow to DVR/bingewatch status. I feel like a lot of new converts coming in from the Flarrow crossover feel the same way that you do.

 

What bugs me is that the show knows how to write good episodes (episodes 1, 5,8,9,10) but then they focus on the ridiculous stuff and not the stuff that made the show popular in the first place. No, I feel like this year they're trying to build the weak aspects of the show (and building new aspects like Ray) while shoving the popular aspects to the side. 

 

What parts of the show are you hating so far? 

Edited March 18, 2015 by wonderwall

[Sasha]

I have zero interest in Ray. Don't read comics don't know or care who he is supposed to grow up to be. He just doesn't have a place on this show. Barry Allen had small parts in only two episodes and I was hooked on the Flash. Again don't read comics but he was just so terrific. Charming, sweet, funny., etc. How much screen time has this Ray guy had and all I see is a weird stalker type with serious boundary issues. Jeez give him his own show already that I will never watch.

Then there's the whole canary stinkfest. I have no loyalty to Sarah. I liked her but I watch for the trio of Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. I'm sorry but KC just sucks. Her "acting" is almost as bad as that flashback wig. I pretty much skipped all of her scenes in the first two seasons. Every now and again I would stop ffing and check. Nope she still sucks. I don't know what happened. I liked her on Supernatural. She is by far the weakest element on the show and they made her the new canary? I just don't get it. I didn't believe her as a love interest or a lawyer. Now a badass? I don't fucking care! Do not give a shit about her journey or her pain. Blah blah....the chick cannot act!

I was really getting hooked on Oliver's journey. I watched out of order and there is such a huge difference between Oliver season 1 and Oliver season 2. For me it was the relationships he formed with Diggle and Felicity that turned him into a hero. SA was pretty stiff at first but I really think he has grown as an actor. Elevated by his partners. They had this perfect thing going and the writers or whoever have just trashed it. I am not looking forward to the next episodes. How bad are they going to be? Maybe I shouldn't watch at all. My dvr is full and now I have the Flash. Maybe I don't need another super hero show.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Sasha

[benteen]

I'm bitter because watching Arrow now feels like a chore to me.  I keep hoping it will return to the show I loved but the writing gives me no hope.  They change the characters personalities week after week in order to service the script when they should be writing scripts around their characters.

Edited March 18, 2015 by benteen

[tv echo]

I loved the original Team Arrow, and I'm bitter that the EPs seem determined to destroy completely that group dynamic.  Oliver, Diggle and Felicity perfectly complemented each other to form an effective crime-fighting team.  They're what kept me watching Arrow through seasons 1 and 2.  Now that team has basically been destroyed and replaced with the ridiculous-looking costumed trio of Arrow, Arsenal and Black Canary.  When I see them running down the street together, the sight doesn't make me want to cheer - it makes me want to laugh.  (I never read the comics, so I don't get any fanboy or fangirl thrill at seeing comic book characters coming to life on screen.)

 

I never had a problem with costumed Arrow and Canary (Sara) fighting together because, one, their costumes made sense (cleavage aside), and two, they were both convincing fighters.  But when it comes to Arsenal and BC - one, their costumes make no sense (red color, buckles galore) and, two, they both got their costumes before acquiring believable fighting skills so they come across as pretenders.

 

With Diggle and Felicity, Oliver seemed more likeable and content (at least in seasons 1 and 2).  WIth Roy and Laurel, Oliver just seems impatient and unhappy.

 

I think this season's team changes and rushed superhero storylines have all been due to the EPs now writing for their shared tv-verse.  With the success of The Flash and the go-ahead for Supergirl, they enlarged their vision and instead of writing just for Arrow, they write for Arrow as laying the groundwork for this larger universe - their mini tv empire, so to speak.  So Arrow is just used to push the plot in the direction that they want it to go and to plant the seeds for future spin-offs, at the expense of characters and logic.

Edited March 18, 2015 by tv echo

[Sasha]

Oh tv echo, you have given me a nightmare opening with all the new costumed fools turning towards the camera and doing a superhero pose. Some super cheesie graphics and voice over: Featuring laurel lance as the black canary, roy dingbat as arsenal and ray doucebag as atom. Special guest star: oliver queen as the arrow. Or worse yet some tyra banks top model bullshit where every week another character disappears from the frame. Poor Felicity will be sent home first and we all know who will be there until the bitter end.

I am not gonna suffer through another Smallville lois lane debacle. As soon as those writers put a high school drop out with fake boobs on the stripper pole and told me she was iconic lois lane I was gone. I will not watch my fab Fecility be marginalized like poor chloe sullivan.

What really chaps my ass is we know these idiots can write strong women. Felicity, Sarah, Nyssa, Tatsu, Moira even Momma Smoak. Laurel has been an annoying, whiny bitch for three seasons. Even the way she stands annoys me! I hate her face. (Character not actress) I am sorry for KC but girl maybe this show just isn't where your talents lie. Maybe a reboot of Charmed? Maybe try singing? I loved your Dad. Ha ha.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Sasha

[wonderwall]

Fun-ish question for you guys... What needs to happen in order for Arrow to become a lost cause to all of you (if it already isn't)?

 

My answer is Oliver gets a goatee+Laurel gets her canary cry. And/or Felicity or Diggle die or leave the show. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

It already is

Actually it was, I'm hanging on right now because of the spinoff. If

Sara comes back, I might consider watching an episode or two again

. However, I don't think it will ever be regular viewing or Must See TV again.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Fun-ish question for you guys... What needs to happen in order for Arrow to become a lost cause to all of you?

Lauriver. That's the biggest thing that comes to mind.

That's not saying I'm not going to quit the show anyway - that depends a lot on how this season turns out.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

Amended my question :)

[Sasha]

If Felicity is gone or killed I am out. Otherwise I will keep it on the dvr for the rest of this season. If they're not back to the original trio by the end I won't be back for season four. There are too many good shows on especially with Netflix to waste my time on something average.

I am seriously watching an old rerun of the Big Bang Theory right now instead of switching over to Arrow live. I am afraid I will be disappointed. Man this bites.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Sasha

[sunflower12]

I was such a huge fan of this show.  Loved loved it until the second half of the second season where it just went off the rails.  Came back for the third season and then...well...they killed sara.  And introduced Ray.  And (spoiler alert) had Thea kill Sara for no good reason.  And decided to make Laurel the leading lady.  I just can't even with this show any more.  It's so sad but I'm actually surfing the web rather than watching live since I'm afraid I will get angry and throw something at my TV.  

[Lii]

Laurel has less acting chops than she has cheekbones.

 

[Sakura12]

I'm bitter that we barely got any Sara and Nyssa interacting but are getting a whole bunch of Nyssa and Laurel. WTF show! Are they just going to give everything Sara had to Laurel. 

[kdm07]

Fun-ish question for you guys... What needs to happen in order for Arrow to become a lost cause to all of you (if it already isn't)?

 

My answer is Oliver gets a goatee+Laurel gets her canary cry. And/or Felicity or Diggle die or leave the show. 

Stopped watching it live after Sara died. I periodically check in here to see if there's anything worth watching so I watched the Felicity episode but that's about it.

[tv echo]

Even though I enjoyed last night's episode ("The Offer"), I'm still slightly bitter that - even though Diggle and Felicity are apparently still talking to each other (he tells her about Oliver's job offer from Ra's) - the Diggle/Felicity conversations are happening off-screen.

[Delphi]

Honestly I very well might be out after this season. If anyone else dies I'm just done. You don't need to kill a cast member every season and I have no interest in watching it.

[tv echo]

Fun-ish question for you guys... What needs to happen in order for Arrow to become a lost cause to all of you (if it already isn't)?

 

My answer is Oliver gets a goatee+Laurel gets her canary cry. And/or Felicity or Diggle die or leave the show. 

I honestly don't know the answer to that question.  Just when I'm thinking about quitting at the end of this season, they pull me back in with an episode like "The Offer".  I have a feeling this up-and-down, back-and-forth, roller-coaster reaction will be a common one going forward.  But the death or departure (or greatly reduced to barely there role) of Felicity or Diggle could be my breaking point.

Edited March 19, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Even though I enjoyed last night's episode ("The Offer"), I'm still slightly bitter that - even though Diggle and Felicity are apparently still talking to each other (he tells her about Oliver's job offer from Ra's) - the Diggle/Felicity conversations are happening off-screen.

Totally agree that I miss them on screen together. But at least we know they are happening! I totally think Diggle was the one that laid the truth bomb on Felicity that the reason Oliver keeps on pushing her away is because he thinks he will ruin her and he only wants her to be happy. I dont ever recall OQ telling that directly to FS. Of course direct interpersonal communication is not OQ forte. It is a shame that they seem to forget the mileage they can get from on screen open conversations.

[moviewhore]

I'm bitter that Oliver doesn't have anyone in his life.  He's still so fucking isolated with just Thea as his family.  That is pitiful to have such a small world of those who love him.  Diggie's got a family, Felicity's moved on-quickly I may add-to the poor man's Tony Stark, while the hero of the show gets nothing.  He's been defeated so badly in a psychological sense that his only recourse is leaving yet again.  And you know, I can't think of anything keeping him in Starling City anymore and maybe he should move the fuck on and take the offer.  That is just pitiful to actually want your lead character to throw away the suit.  It's pathetic that Oliver sacrificed so many years on his journey to being a hero only to realize it meant nothing and he has nothing.  It's pissing me off that Laurel and Ray are getting instant superhero status with no real work involved.  I'm pissed that Ray gets the girl and the suit while Ollie is thinking of hanging his up and I hate seeing Ollie watch Felicity be all googly eyed over her once stalker.  I'm fucking sick of Ollie being in manpain, unsmiling and losing, losing, losing every episode.  Honestly, take the new job and get gone, Ollie, make a fresh start and I shouldn't be thinking that at all, you know?  He may as well have died on the island years back since he came home to nothing after all. 

 

God, fuck this show for shitting on Ollie so much. 

[Sakura12]

Yeah, that pisses me off too. Oliver has earned his hero status 100x over Ray and Laurel. All they did was put on a silly costume. Oliver should really be asking himself, did I suffer this much only to continue to suffer. Oliver and Sara really were given the short end of the stick, Sara died in a stupid and insulting way never getting to be happy and Oliver continues to get shit on while other people can do the exact same thing he's doing with minimal effort or work. 

[Morena]

Diggle stays in the foundry while untrained Laurel goes out fighting. is illogical, meaningless and annoying

[NumberCruncher]

Diggle stays in the foundry while untrained Laurel goes out fighting. is illogical, meaningless and annoying

This pisses me off too.

[Chaser]

Diggle stays in the foundry while untrained Laurel goes out fighting. is illogical, meaningless and annoying

And they point out her lack of training all the time! I really don't understand. Oliver tells her to suit up and then tells her she needs training when she almost gets herself killed (again). But we all know he won't train her and apparently Diggle and Roy aren't offering their services either. I almost wish they would stop commenting on it and let her trip around in the background this way it doesn't highlight want morons they are.

[Ang]

Fun-ish question for you guys... What needs to happen in order for Arrow to become a lost cause to all of you (if it already isn't)?

My answer is Oliver gets a goatee+Laurel gets her canary cry. And/or Felicity or Diggle die or leave the show.

I can handle a goatee (SA being hot has never been the draw for me) or a canary cry (if it makes Laurel make more sense as BC then FINE because this is ridiculous still), but I'm with you on Felicity and Dig. Add in the wanton destruction of their characters (Felicity cheating on Ray with Ollie, for example). Or more of the overwhelming joylessness we had for the previous 6 episodes; if last night hadn't been a change of pace I might have moved on.

[Actionmage]

Fun-ish question for you guys... What needs to happen in order for Arrow to become a lost cause to all of you (if it already isn't)?

 

Primarily, if anything happens to Dig or Felicity. While I feel that they are relatively safe, I still worry.

 

Another worry? If Lyla or Roy are hurt or worse in order to dish out more pain to Dig or Thea/Oliver, respectively.  I really enjoy Lyla and Audrey Marie, with the same feelings for Roy and Colton. There is good story to be mined from both characters, so it would be wasteful, imo.

 

Or if Quentin's heart "gives out" or is "overstressed" or other bullshit. I just hope TIIC aren't saving an already written Captain Stacey/Spidey-esque scene for Quentin/Oliver. (Yeah, I have trust issues with these writers.)

 

Sadly, I'm feeling about half out the door, as it is. I love the cast. I've really enjoyed seasons one and two. I wanted to say that about this season as well.

[KirkB]

Honestly, I'm no longer invested in this show so I just don't care as much as I used to. In order to make me stop watching it completely they would basically have to fundamentally change the show to something like Arrow & Canary. On a less dramatic note, if they took away the normal people and just kept the masks, in other words got rid of Diggle and Felicity completely, that might do it too.

[AES13]

I feel the same as you, KirkB.  Arrow is no longer must watch TV  for me so the bar is much lower on keeping me satisfied.  I only watch it on the night it airs so I can run back to this forum and read the (sometimes hilarious) reactions.  Probable deal breakers - Zombie Lauriver, or Felicity and Diggle being written out.

[Genki]

I've just found out that letting the show build up for a few episodes until a good episode, (as judged by these forums), comes along didn't really help. 
Being spoiled and knowing that there was a lot of meh-ness and frustration to get through until 3.16 was not pleasant, frankly I just didn't want to start & there was a lot of Candy Srush and Pet Rescue being played.

 

I'm officially back on week to week viewing (+ lower expectations), I think the fandom (especially these forums and fanfic) will mean that I'm in until the bitter end, unless they completely torpedo Olicity (or make it Arrow & Canary like KirkB stated).

[wonderwall]

I've just found out that letting the show build up for a few episodes until a good episode, (as judged by these forums), comes along didn't really help. 

Being spoiled and knowing that there was a lot of meh-ness and frustration to get through until 3.16 was not pleasant, frankly I just didn't want to start & there was a lot of Candy Srush and Pet Rescue being played.

 

I'm officially back on week to week viewing (+ lower expectations), I think the fandom (especially these forums and fanfic) will mean that I'm in until the bitter end, unless they completely torpedo Olicity (or make it Arrow & Canary like KirkB stated).

 

I'm right there with you. We can bitch about it together. 

[icandigit]

Yeah. I think this forum is the only thing that's keeping me somewhat interested.  I think I've been tolerating the season because I haven't been watching all of it. I can't imagine having watched every episode. I don't think I would be capable of doing that.

Edited March 22, 2015 by icandigit

[Menrva]

Yeah. I think this forum is the only thing that's keeping me somewhat interested.  I think I've been tolerating the season because I haven't been watching all of it. I can't imagine having watched every episode. I don't think I would be capable of doing that.

This is where I'm at too. Sigh. Fortunately there are a few other shows to keep me occupied. The Flash is fun and fluffy (mostly) and I can watch it with my kids. And I'm enjoying the Musketeers, but that's a discussion for another forum.

[statsgirl]

I'm bitter that they've made Oliver such a jerk this season, the only characters I want around him are the ones who no longer give a damn how he treats them like Laurel and Diggle.

 

I tried to read some fanfic to cheer myself up but I ended up shutting off my computer and the Olicity scenes. MG has really spit in my Olicity soup.

 

ETA:  not that Diggle doesn't care what Oliver thinks, but I like it that if Diggle disagrees with Oliver, he just ignores him.

Edited March 22, 2015 by statsgirl

[KirkB]

Yeah, I think it's a sign your main character has gone to a bad place when his two biggest fans are Malcolm Merlyn and Ra's al Ghul.