Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[chaos is welcome]

Ah, but only the little brother until dig thought he killed Sara, then dig was all "send him up the creek, brah!" That, after digs "you were right for sidelining me , thanks sooooo much!" Are my top two wtf moments of the season.

I stopped getting 2.5 after buckle canary's reveal. I just refuse to give them my $ anymore. Even if it's a dollar.

[TanyaKay]

Same with Laurel ... if the show only established this deep sisterly bond, then I probably would buy all this crying and hunger for revenge. Probably. She had that cemetery scene in "The Climb" where she was trying to talk to Sara — and I felt nothing. Because I can't buy this love for her sister. And that is one of the many problems with 2B. It did not adequately set up, for me anyway, these relationships that are now driving Season 3. If only they didn't attach Sara to Oliver's magic penis and used ALL THAT TIME instead to actually rebuild the relationship between the sisters, then I would buy this drive to punish her sister's killers. There was that one awkward apology scene. Except I thought the wrong person was apologizing. Sigh.

 

Same here ... I mean I totally bought that Oliver will die for his sister because he has shown deep affection for his sister time and again, even when she was being a brat. John Diggle was never shown with Andy but we got that he had a deep bond with him and his death affected him very deeply and was part of his motivation to be part of Oliver's vigilante team.

Laurel, on the other hand, was nothing but cruel to her sister, she sough reconciliation with her not because she felt bad about but because she was read the riot act by her former boyfriend. I will NEVER ever buy the sisterly love that will drive her like this. She never loved Sara as was made clear to us that even as a teenager, she was selfish and got Sara grounded so that she can stake claim to the rich boy.

This whole Laurel journey is nothing but a big yawn fest.

[Chiny11]

I wonder why the writers wrote in that twist - that it was actually Laurel that connived to undermine her sister in order to get Oliver.

I mean the character already had many things working against her. Why worsen it? It just made no sense to me.

The only time I liked Laurel was when she was with Tommy. Sad really.

[apinknightmare]

I don't really need to see a deep sisterly bond in order to buy Laurel wanting revenge. I'm not particularly close to my sister, and if someone murdered her and I saw her land on a dumpster and then the street, I'd probably want to rain down vengeance on the SOB who did it too. You don't have to be close to someone to love them, and things were complicated between those two - I'm sure there are a lot of mixed emotions in there. 

 

For me, Laurel's motivation isn't the problem so much as the way it's being executed. First, she's out for blood against Komodo and she's all about finding out who killed Sara. Then she goes out and gets her ass beat because she decides she wants to "do good." I can't remember if she said outright this was to honor Sara - it doesn't really matter. So then she goes out to get training so...she can go out and "do good" and not get her ass beat again? So she can kill Sara's killer? The problem is that they've intertwined those two things, so her actions and motivations are muddled. They should've just had her go get training with the intent of getting good enough to take the killer on in a fight or something. To top all that off, she hasn't done jack to actually find Sara's killer, so it comes off like all she wants to do is become a vigilante, when I should at least believe that this isn't an entirely selfish thing she's doing. I can't tell if it's awful storytelling or

part of whatever goes on with her suiting up and being terrible at it

. Maybe it's both, but it's probably the former. It may look different after seeing the season as a whole, but as of now I can't get behind her journey, because Sara's death really does look like a blatant excuse to get her in the costume. I mean, I know that's what it is, but there are ways to sell that in-story without Laurel looking like a selfish, wannabe vigilante asshat. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I wonder why the writers wrote in that twist - that it was actually Laurel that connived to undermine her sister in order to get Oliver.

 

I think it was written in so the Sara/Oliver hookup wouldn't look as bad.

[apinknightmare]

I think it was written in so the Sara/Oliver hookup wouldn't look as bad.

 

Yep. Which is especially stupid, considering they threw the character they kept under the bus for the one they killed off a handful of episodes later. 

[Genki]

I can't tell if it's awful storytelling or

part of whatever goes on with her suiting up and being terrible at it

. Maybe it's both, but it's probably the former. It may look different after seeing the season as a whole, but as of now I can't get behind her journey, because Sara's death really does look like a blatant excuse to get her in the costume. I mean, I know that's what it is, but there are ways to sell that in-story without Laurel looking like a selfish, wannabe vigilante asshat. 

 

The problem is too much of this season has been

 

[TanyaKay]

I don't really need to see a deep sisterly bond in order to buy Laurel wanting revenge. I'm not particularly close to my sister, and if someone murdered her and I saw her land on a dumpster and then the street, I'd probably want to rain down vengeance on the SOB who did it too. You don't have to be close to someone to love them, and things were complicated between those two - I'm sure there are a lot of mixed emotions in there. 

 

For me, Laurel's motivation isn't the problem so much as the way it's being executed. First, she's out for blood against Komodo and she's all about finding out who killed Sara. Then she goes out and gets her ass beat because she decides she wants to "do good." I can't remember if she said outright this was to honor Sara - it doesn't really matter. So then she goes out to get training so...she can go out and "do good" and not get her ass beat again? So she can kill Sara's killer? The problem is that they've intertwined those two things, so her actions and motivations are muddled. They should've just had her go get training with the intent of getting good enough to take the killer on in a fight or something. To top all that off, she hasn't done jack to actually find Sara's killer, so it comes off like all she wants to do is become a vigilante, when I should at least believe that this isn't an entirely selfish thing she's doing. I can't tell if it's awful storytelling or

part of whatever goes on with her suiting up and being terrible at it

. Maybe it's both, but it's probably the former. It may look different after seeing the season as a whole, but as of now I can't get behind her journey, because Sara's death really does look like a blatant excuse to get her in the costume. I mean, I know that's what it is, but there are ways to sell that in-story without Laurel looking like a selfish, wannabe vigilante asshat. 

 

Oh I can buy one indifferent sister seeking revenge for the other sister but Laurel was downright hostile to everyone, she does not have it in her to feel any positive emotion that deeply for anyone. She can hold a grudge, for sure but anything else, not so much.

Her seeking revenge on Arrow for Tommy's death was stupid because it took her 2.5 hours to hop into bed with Oliver after Tommy told her that she belonged with the other dude. I mean she said it to Tommy that they love each other so even if Tommy was not in it, she could've taken time into jumping the other dude proving that Tommy was right all along and she didn't really love him so blaming a dude in leather for his death and seeking revenge made no sense.

Then she said/did a million mean things to her sister, both in present day and in flashbacks so yeah, I don't really buy anything except animosity between these two. Her seeking vengeance for her death also does not ring true.

 

PS: You can blame writing all the way but KC cannot really play Laurel without making her look "like a selfish, wannabe vigilante asshat."

[chaos is welcome]

I think it was written in so the Sara/Oliver hookup wouldn't look as bad.

You know that always bothered me...made me think for the longest time that either Sara or laurel was going to have a dark arc. Either way (laurel going rogue or Sara ending up having knowledge of Slade being not dead) would have been hella better than what we have now

[DrSpaceman10]

You know that always bothered me...made me think for the longest time that either Sara or laurel was going to have a dark arc. 

 

During 2B, I also thought that Sara might have been a villain (maybe working for Slade). I think it would've been interesting to see someone go through something similar to Oliver and come out a bad guy instead of a good guy. 

 

I've never really been interested in any of the Canary arcs on the show, though.

Edited December 29, 2014 by drspaceman10

[TanyaKay]

I agree with you, canary arcs were always the most uninspiring part of the story but then most things to do with the Lances were rather soapy

[chaos is welcome]

Dinner of doom. Lololol. The one instance in which laurel actually had a point. Bahahahahaha. These writers. I just can't with how they write the lance drama.

I loved Sara just because kick ass females that aren't crazy are so lacking. And I admire the actress's athleticism and abs. Because I dont discriminate :)

They just wasted so much of our time on one canary, just to kill her so they could waste our time on another (lesser) canary.

Edited December 29, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[DrSpaceman10]

I loved Sara just because kick ass females that aren't crazy are so lacking. And I admire the actress's athleticism and abs. Because I dont discriminate :)

 

I totally get that, Caity Lotz is crazy athletic. I just never really connected with her character.

[pootlus]

Dinner of doom. Lololol. The one instance in which laurel actually had a point. Bahahahahaha. These writers. I just can't with how they write the lance drama.

 

...and the one time I thought Katie Cassidy completely and utterly nailed a line was "You stole my life!" (idiotic as that line was, in context - sure Sara was in a relationship with Oliver but what else had she 'stolen'?), perhaps because it cut so close to the bone in RL?  Who knows.

[KirkB]

Which just goes to show the EPs don't really know Laurel or how to write KC. They did one scene in two and a half seasons where Laurel was right and KC was right for the part and have not followed up on it. They COULD do Laurel correctly if they chose to, they just seem to have another characterization in mind than what I think KC is actually capable of doing.

[tv echo]

I believed that Laurel would seek vengeance for Sara's murder because she's that kind of personality, but I didn't believe her grief for her sister this season.

Edited December 29, 2014 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

I believed that Laurel would seek vengeance for Sara's murder because she's that kind of personality, but I didn't believe her grief for her sister this season.

I think it's because we've only seen her grieving for less than 2 minutes. I really appreciated her scene in the graveyard but it was such a fleeting moment before she flipped her anger back on and was distracted from keeping saras death a secret. I do believe that Laurel loved Sara, I believe that once she found out that Sara was the Canary she looked up to her. But I don't believe that it's a bond strong enough to make Laurel do whatever she's doing right now. It's unfortunate that the writers couldn't have created a more loving and sisterly bond between the two women.

[apinknightmare]

I do believe that Laurel loved Sara, I believe that once she found out that Sara was the Canary she looked up to her. But I don't believe that it's a bond strong enough to make Laurel do whatever she's doing right now. It's unfortunate that the writers couldn't have created a more loving and sisterly bond between the two women.

 

 

See, I believe Laurel would do what she's doing for Sara, but the problem is that she isn't doing what she's doing for Sara. She's doing it because she wants to be one of the cool kid vigilantes. This would've been fixed for me if a) she actually bothered to look for Sara's killer and b) had never decided to go at that woman beater with a bat. I wish they'd had her looking for Sara's killer and training so she was ready when she found him/her, and left the attempt at "doing good" out of it. I mean, my expectations are very low, but that would've gone a long way towards making me at least believe her a little.

[chaos is welcome]

See, I believe Laurel would do what she's doing for Sara, but the problem is that she isn't doing what she's doing for Sara. She's doing it because she wants to be one of the cool kid vigilantes. This would've been fixed for me if a) she actually bothered to look for Sara's killer and b) had never decided to go at that woman beater with a bat. I wish they'd had her looking for Sara's killer and training so she was ready when she found him/her, and left the attempt at "doing good" out of it. I mean, my expectations are very low, but that would've gone a long way towards making me at least believe her a little.

You know what, it totally would have even worked if they had WROTE It this way.   Before the season started, I wrote a drabble where Laurel started training with Ted because she felt left behind--everyone was involved with Arrow business and no one would let her help.  They could have gone with that route instead of killing Sara.  Or started her down that path then had Sara disappear.  I am forever bitter that they couldn't write this better, because I love every other relationship on the show but the entire thing with Laurel just ruins the ENTIRE UNIVERSE for me.  They could spin it that Laurel's island had been since Oliver left on the boat--she's been stagnant, hadn't moved on, except with Tommy but honestly is that moving on?  But they would have had to have worked it in before now.  At this point, its unsalvageable. Basically, it cheapens the hero's journey to "A mask for you, a mask for you and one for you."  BITTER BEYOND BELIEF.

[tv echo]

After reading about what happened in the latest Arrow digital comic, I'm bitter that fans are forced to buy those comics in order to read scenes that I'd rather watch on TV - and instead are forced to suffer through what's actually put on our TV screens.

Edited January 6, 2015 by tv echo

[KirkB]

Companion comics are fine. They can tell stories that are (hopefully) interesting but not important enough to be put on film. Using them to answer questions which are actually important to the story, which should have been filmed, is just lazy and insulting. If we NEED to know what happened to Oliver and his people during the six month gap between seasons they insist on being real time, it should be SHOWN. We shouldn't have to pay extra for it.

Edited January 6, 2015 by KirkB

[Chiny11]

And here I was thinking that Oliver had not been to Felicity's apartment. I am very bitter that his first time in her apartment won't be on screen. :(

[apinknightmare]

And here I was thinking that Oliver had not been to Felicity's apartment. I am very bitter that his first time in her apartment won't be on screen. :(

 

I'd like to see him at her apartment at some point, but I personally don't care that I didn't get to see the first time. She's been working with him for over a year - I always assumed he'd been there before for some reason or another, either in the first or second seasons. I just hope that when he does go to her place on the show (if he ever does) that they don't act like it's the first time he's been there. 

 

ETA: Actually, he has been in her apartment before - in the season 1 companion comics. Completely forgot about that.

Edited January 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

I have reached a level of apathy with Laurel. I don't like it. I'm never going to get it. I'm over it.

 

However, the Felicity/Ray storyline has me so bitter. I'm not taking about the potential romance of the arc, I'm taking about 

Ray - a guest star - stepping into the spot light for his own hero arc and regulating Felicity as his support. I'm bitter that BR is getting increased promotion during a time that should belong to Felicity.

Couple that with the lack of female presence at the panel and I'm so disappointed. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Password]

I'm bitter Oliver isn't there! I'm bitter that they think I want to watch a show where the main character is dead to see how his family moves on, including a woman who's motivation I DO NOT understand, and a man who they'll have Felicity see as the new "saviour" of Starling City. I'm down for episode 10 and 14, further than that whatever.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Limbo

[Genki]

I'm bitter that Season 3 has been so uneven and now it Oliver "dead" the EPs have doubled down on everything that has made S3 weaker. I can't believe how bad 3.11 episode description sounds, I don't think I can watch it until Oliver's return.

[tv echo]

The EPs are comic book guys, so they're always going to be more excited about bringing comic book characters to life on the screen.  Even though Felicity (this version) is now in the comic books, she isn't a classic superhero or villain, she doesn't wear a costume, and she doesn't fight (physically).  They can't geek out over her dressing in black leather and kicking ass out in the field.  So she's support for the "real" superheroes.  Yeah, I'm bitter too...  

[jay741982]

10eleven12 it pisses me off that Laurel is being shoved down our throats while Oliver is gone instead of Felicity, an actual friend of not to mention Love interest of the hero getting more screen time.

Edited January 10, 2015 by jay741982

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Why can we move at warp speed as Laurel takes Sara's place, but all other storylines move at a snail's pace?

[SonofaBiscuit]

I realize that I've been overly negative for a while now, and I want to explain where all this bitterness is coming from.

 

For me, the show started to go downhill during season 2B.  During the hiatus between season 2 and season 3, I actually became hopeful again as the EPs talked about fixing the mistakes that they had made during the second season.  The Olicity stuff looked promising and I was willing to give Brandon Routh a chance even though I wasn't a huge fan.  For being a good sport, Willa was promised an interesting story, and I was looking forward to that.  The writers talked about all of these episodes that Caity was a part of, so I was happy that she was going to be around occasionally.

 

Now we cut to the reality of the third season.  Instead of Ray being a legitimate romantic choice for Felicity, they give up a crazy eyed creepster who does some seriously questionable things.  Instead of Thea having an interesting storyline, she's a brainwashed murderer.  And instead of showing up from time to time to be her awesome BC self, Sara was shot full of arrows, thrown in the garbage, and stuffed in a freezer.

 

Part of the problem is that yes, Guggenheim is a troll.  But a lot of the time, I actually think that he believes the information that he doles out.  I really do think that Guggenheim is confident that Ray has been presented as a perfectly suitable alternative to Oliver, and those of us who dislike him must feel that way because we're unwilling to accept Felicity with anyone except Oliver. 

 

I'm sure there have been many bits of Guggenheim misinformation throughout season 3, but the most recent that comes to mind is what he said about episode 9, The Climb.  We were told that The Climb featured one of the most epic fight scenes Arrow had ever done.  In reality, the fight scene was...not great.  You could clearly see the stunt double's face several times and poor SA was a popsicle.  I kinda think that the whole point of the fight was to show how easily Ra's could beat Oliver, so mission accomplished there.  Hardly epic.  Then we were told that The Climb was one of the most epic episodes that they had ever done.  In reality, I thought that the episode was a mess.  The pacing was all over the place, the inclusion of Ray and Laurel seemed absolutely uneccesary, and the reveal that Thea was a brainwashed murderer was a major letdown.  Finally, we were told that the Oliver/Felicity scene was a 9, but not a 10 since there was no sex.  I know that some were pleased with what we got, but if a 10 is sex, then what got was most definitely not a 9 in my book. 

 

So looking back and realizing that nothing is ever as good as Guggenheim promises, I'm not too optimistic about what awaits me in season 3B.   

Kreisberg told us that 10-12 is a Laurel trilogy and Guggenheim tried to walk it back, so yeah, I believe that 10-12 are going to be majorly Laurel heavy. For me, even 10 minutes of Laurel feels like the entire episode is about Laurel, so I'm not looking forward to this. And because it is Guggenheim saying that Laurel is going to get beat up and have to find another way to contribute, I'm expecting her to struggle for two or three episodes before becoming a full-fledged hero by episode 13, Canaries.

[Starfish35]

I decided I wanted to make a list of all the things I think this show has gotten wrong, and/or that I'm bitter/frustrated/angry/irritated about. I'm sure I'll forget some, so feel free to chime in.

1) Laurel. Always and forever, and in every way possible, Laurel.

2) The Lauriver relationship, pretty much from the beginning. Also includes them screwing over Tommy with their hook up at the end of the first season.

3) Making the Huntress a deranged psycho.

4) Oliver running back to his island and abandoning Thea to deal with what had just happened all by herself.

5) Moira's farce of a trial.

6) Casting River Song Alex Kingston, and then criminally underusing her.

7) Ditto for Summer Glau. Isabel got more to do than Dinah did, but the Ravager stuff was ridiculous, and with her disappearance for about ten episodes, it was painfully obvious they hadn't really thought through what they were going to do with her.

8) Fridging Shado. This was so so stupid. And in retrospect, this is the point where the whole show started going off the rails.

9) Connected to that, Slade's entire revenge arc. Not much about this made sense, as even confessed by Manu Bennett I believe.

10) Moira running for mayor. This really stretched suspension of disbelief to the snapping point.

11) Moira's death. I have to be honest - at the time I wasn't that upset. I admired her bravery, I was hopeful about what storylines this might create for Thea, and it seemed obvious by both of her season storylines that the writers were flailing to know what to do with her. But I've changed my mind. This wasn't a good choice. Moira dying to take Malcolm down? Yes. This? This was just born out of that stupid "choice" scenario set up with Shado's death, and ended up being more about driving Oliver to his "lowest point" than creating storylines for Thea.

12) Oliver's no kill rule. I know it's a comicbook thing. I don't really care. I'm not saying he should be out offing people left and right like he was in season one, but I'm just saying, I agreed more with Nyssa in the finale than Oliver.

13) how Sara and Oliver's relationship was handled. I may be the only person on this board that wasn't upset by "the lunge". I actually liked them together. Not in an OTP way necessarily, although it might have been if I'd ever felt like the writers were treating their relationship as something more than a plot point, or roadblock. I'm just saying, I wish they'd treated it seriously or not done it at all.

14) The lack of developing the "Teen Arrow" angle.

15) the way most of Roy's development into Arsenal seems to have happened offscreen.

16) Killing Sara off. I will never not be furious about this. After spending an entire season developing this character,they discarded her like she was nothing. To drive a pointless ridiculous convoluted storyline and fast forward the ascension of her successor, a character I can't stand.

17) Stripping Thea's agency from her by this whole brainwashing angle. Having her be the killer at all.

18) This ridiculous convoluted plan of Malcolm's.

19) Chase

20) That Diggle's HIVE storyline keeps getting pushed back.

21) That Felicity's storyline this season (except for TSOOFS) seems to mainly revolve around her being support and/or love interest to comicbook "heroes".

Have I forgotten anything? I'm sure I've forgotten something. Oh, yes!

22) Katana! This may yet be remedied in the second half, but I've been disappointed that the story so far has seemed to focus more on Maseo than Tatsu.

[Angel12d]

Those are all really good points, @Starfish35. I agree with most of them. 

 

I'm mostly embittered by Felicity's storyline this season. I was looking forward to learning more about her but it really isn't about her at all. It's about Ray and what she can do for him. She's being used as a prop. I hate it but I'm really not surprised. The writers don't seem to care about anyone but Laurel this season which is ridiculous because they're not even writing her storyline properly either. 

 

And I hate that Oliver's journey doesn't seem to be important anymore. He is 8 years into his journey to becoming Green Arrow and he's now been 'killed off' temporarily because they couldn't find a more organic way of Laurel becoming a hero (and that's not even taking into account Sara being killed for the same result). I just hate that Oliver is still nowhere near to being GA and yet Laurel is handed BC after 10 plus episodes. This should be about Oliver, no one else. Every other character should be secondary. The show is called Arrow. I really don't understand what they're doing anymore and sadly, I don't think I have much interest to try.

[Starfish35]

A couple of other things I forgot to mention:

1) Oliver leaving Thea alone to go through Moira's funeral by herself.

2) Them having Sara go back to the LoA, after earlier in the season she tried to kill herself to get away from them. I get that this was a sacrifice she made, but they didn't show that clearly enough on screen IMO. They should have showed something that showed her struggle to make that decision, and not have had that apparently happy goodbye scene. :(

ETA: 3) Trying to cram too many storylines and comic book characters into the seasons instead of just focusing on doing a couple of storylines well, and developing their main cast.

Moved Sara discussion to Sara thread.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Starfish35

[Nagevs]

 

I'm mostly embittered by Felicity's storyline this season. I was looking forward to learning more about her but it really isn't about her at all. It's about Ray and what she can do for him. She's being used as a prop. I hate it but I'm really not surprised. The writers don't seem to care about anyone but Laurel this season which is ridiculous because they're not even writing her storyline properly either. 

 

And I hate that Oliver's journey doesn't seem to be important anymore. He is 8 years into his journey to becoming Green Arrow and he's now been 'killed off' temporarily because they couldn't find a more organic way of Laurel becoming a hero (and that's not even taking into account Sara being killed for the same result). I just hate that Oliver is still nowhere near to being GA and yet Laurel is handed BC after 10 plus episodes. This should be about Oliver, no one else. Every other character should be secondary. The show is called Arrow. I really don't understand what they're doing anymore and sadly, I don't think I have much interest to try.

 

I knew when they killed Sara first episode back that this would likely be my last season watching Arrow (nine episodes and done). It’s clear to me the only character male or female that matters to them right now is Laurel. Nothing I've seen of this character on screen warrants this devotion.

 

I feel like you used to be able to enjoy this show regardless of ever reading the comics, now not so much, it’s become such a disadvantage to just watch this show without having a comics background. That isn't good story telling.

 

Arrow has gone from being an entertaining superhero origin show that had a clear plan, to an unfocused vanity project by the comic book loving show runners in two and a bit seasons.

[jay741982]

MG running the show by himself is a big part of why a shitty character is shoved down our throats he's a big Laurel fan

[olicityfan25]

Other characters being pushed into the background and the main star being "dead" on the show making room for buckles.

 

If you can't integrate her into the story in the beginning that means you suck at storytelling. They are literally pushing everyone back or taking people off the screen for her. So disgusting.

[looptab]

13) how Sara and Oliver's relationship was handled. I may be the only person on this board that wasn't upset by "the lunge". I actually liked them together. Not in an OTP way necessarily, although it might have been if I'd ever felt like the writers were treating their relationship as something more than a plot point, or roadblock. I'm just saying, I wish they'd treated it seriously or not done it at all.

 

Answering to this in the Relationships thread :)

[jay741982]

Preach it Olicityfan25!!

[chaos is welcome]

Just read the stuff that's come out of the TCAs.  Right now I'm a little bitter there isn't a "I feel like I am going to hurl" thread.  Its completely over, isn't it?   I think it is, have known it is for awhile but I didn't want it to be.  Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I can't get back any of the time I invested in this shit show.

I adore EBR and SA and DR and Team Arrow Will never be what it should be.

TPTB are complete asswipes and the CW won't reign then in.

Arrow ended for me with Oliver's death.

[Chiny11]

So... Yeah... The reports from TCA make me want to throw something.

You have got to be kidding. Ugh!!!

[Danny Franks]

So I'm bitter that I ever watched this show in the first place. Because even though I'm not watching it now, I feel so bad for some of the actors who are having to deal with their hard work being completely trampled on by arrogant, brainless, creatively bankrupt hacks. The head hack being a guy who hasn't even turned in any impressive comic book stories, let alone any good television.

 

I actually want them to kill Felicity off now, so EBR can get a show that is worthy of her, and I can actually watch her again. She's too good for this dogshit. So are Stephen Amell, David Ramsey and Willa Holland.

[jay741982]

While all 4 of them deserve better I don't want Felicity killed off that would make ragey then ill cry like a baby

[chaos is welcome]

I actually feel like these show runners have broken trust with us, specifically in the way they handled Sara, especially in the promotions of the S3. Its venting.  Plus, lets be real, the only way these writers can in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM move plot since mid-season 2 is to kill people.  Kill shado, kill Moira, kill Sara. Oh wait, brainwash Thea.  **There is something new and exciting**.  Notice a disturbing trend in those names?  Its the bitterness thread.  We are bitter, many of us because we have invested a tiny portion of our too short lives coming to care about these characters.  The only female character they seem to care about in either Flash or Arrow is one many of us can't stand at this point, so brainless is totally allowable.  Its brainless to have all these amazing characters and relationships, and to come in 23 episodes from how at least I personally felt about this show at the end of 2B to how I feel about it now.  I'm disgusted with myself that I got other people caring about this show, only to have strong female after strong female killed.  And now the CW can not even be bothered to allow females (save 1) into a panel?  Sexist also comes to mind.  I feel a little brainless too, for falling for it.

[FurryFury]

The problem is the show runners have done nothing to disrespect you

 

They've done everything to disrespect us, I think.

 

I concur with wanting EBR, DR and WH (not a big fan of SA - he's OK, but not great) off the show to see them in better stuff. Or just transfer them to The Flash. It does lack interesting female characters, at least.

[dtissagirl]

I actually feel like these show runners have broken trust with us, specifically in the way they handled Sara, especially in the promotions of the S3. Its venting.  Plus, lets be real, the only way these writers can in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM move plot since mid-season 2 is to kill people.  Kill shado, kill Moira, kill Sara.

 

This is a really great point. There's for sure an overload of death as motivation on this show, which ends up making death meaningless on its own -- even without counting the "deaths" wherein it turned out, ooops -- the people were actually alive. And hey, death is part of life, and everyone deals with it, but when it's the only thing propelling characters into becoming superheroes? It stops being dark and starts just being depressing.

Edited January 12, 2015 by dancingnancy

[GirlWednesday]

So I tried to stay away from all things arrow over the winter holiday because it can't be any worse. And i was gettin tired of being bitter. But I couldn't stay away. I'm back with some bitterness.

"Killing" the main hero of the show as mid season cliffhanger when he has already come back from the dead is just lazy.

What the hell kind of story are these writers telling? Can someone please tell me? I'll be thankful if I can understand it. Never have I loved a show not because of what I see onscreen but because of the potential greatness of what could be (exception season 2a and 1b for its team arrow beginnings).

But I honestly have no idea what kind of show I'm watching. It's not episodic, monster of the week because there is too much long arching themes. It's not a series arc because it's too jumpy, threads dropped and no followthru. I cannot understand what the point of S3 is supposed to be.

Is it about identites this season? Felicity balancing both lives. Diggle becoming a father while balancing his night activities. Roy finding his heroic nature, moving away from being just a student, oliver choosing his alter ego and struggling to define oliver Queen, Laurel apparently choosing to live in the shadow of a dead sister and become her alter ego instead of actually being anything herself.

I'm fine with the story not going where I think it should because I'm the audience but is it too much to ask for it to make sense?!

Edited January 12, 2015 by GirlWednesday

[Sakura12]

I actually want them to kill Felicity off now, so EBR can get a show that is worthy of her, and I can actually watch her again. She's too good for this dogshit. So are Stephen Amell, David Ramsey and Willa Holland.

 

I'd go for this as well. I'd rather see EBR on a show that appreciates her. This show isn't doing that. I'm not an Olicity shipper so I don't care whether or not her and Oliver ever get together. EBR deserves better. I feel bad for Stephen as well. He was super pumped about his show during the second season when it was about his character. Now it's about everyone else with Oliver thrown in there to be the starting line for them. I know people got upset when Sara had increased screentime but Sara's story was part of Oliver's. He wasn't shoved off a cliff to let her take over. Their storyline was together. He used to have a lot more insight into the show and Oliver now he just seems to be spouting off the company line. 

[Pyramid]

I think this belongs in the here: So there's been something bothering me about this image (besides the obvious)

 

and now I realise what it is. She looks more like an action figure than an actual person. And they gave up Caity Lotz for this.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Pyramid

[pootlus]

I'm never going to be able to look at her and not see that Edward Scissorhands manip.  It's the black lipstick more than anything else.