All Episodes Talk: Saving People, Hunting Things

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I do believe this half has the time-travel ep? With Dean getting a Western shoot-out moment? I liked that scene. And Cas got the best ep of the Season.

Yes it was, also it had the follow up episode where Dean used his brains to come up with the plan that ultimately killed Eve.

Cas' episode was good, but I was actually more partial to the finale (Written by Kripke). I think "The Man Who Would Be King" is underrated with good involvement from everybody. Sam coming to terms with his dark side and realizing that Dean is his priority, and maybe then understanding where Dean was coming from when Dean made his decision. Dean leaving Sam behind to do what's best for the world. Crowley actually getting played for once instead of being the player.

Of course I didn't mind Castiel's turn to the darkside and actually enjoyed the twist, though I know that there are others who won't agree.

I think what I liked the most style-wise from the Gamble years was that Sam and Dean talked to each other. Not just about important things, but in general. There was small talk and in jokes - yes including the dick jokes which I'll admit my inner 12 year old enjoyed the hell out of - that even in tough times gave the show a humorous edge and made it seem like Sam and Dean actually liked each other and enjoyed each others' company. The giant robot exchange in "Plucky Pennywhistle..." the ballet shoe and vintage porno mag exchanges in "Out With the Old." The "Star Trek IV" and Clint Eastwood exchanges in "Frontierland." The whole Biggerson's restaurant scene in "How to Win Friends..." The whole naming of the Jefferson Starships and even the diner scene ("Crap. Crap. Crap.") in "Mommy Dearest." The "Don't put Baby in the corner" conversation from "Slash Fiction." Those are just off the top of my head. There were many great exchanges in her era that seemed like a throwback to the earlier years of Kripke - before season 4, where I can't remember one light-hearted exchange between Sam and Dean off the top of my head that wasn't them in an alternate universe.

I guess I missed that sense of general whimsy before everything became angst angst angst. Some might have found it boring, but like @Diane, I loved it. And I guess that's what I was most disappointed in with season 8 is that it was a return to that "all angst, all the time" style that wore me down in season 4. Bleh.

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

think we began to see the affects of Carver from the born again identity on. There was a distinct tonal change such as the return of Cas, increased usage of secondary characters and a return to the Angel / demon storylines she had moved  away from. 

I'm still not convinced about the purgatory thing though, because as I said in my post on the previous page, for Carver, purgatory mostly seemed like an inconvenience rather than something he really wanted to explore. I still contend that purgatory sounds more like Gamble. After everything is taken away from Dean, we'll take away even the nuances and boil everything down to pure survival instinct. How would Dean return from that? How would Sam deal with a potentially changed Dean? That seems more like a Gamble plot point to me. One that apparently Carver didn't seem interested in.

[Icarus]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Furthermore, as I touched on above, she ignored the wishes of not just the Cas fans but the majority of fandom to focus on the small hardcore brother only fans.

I don't see it like this IMO at this time the majority of the fans were J2 fans, with a small minority of Cas/Misha fans, this has now changed with Misha having a much larger fanbase than he did for the first few seasons. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

There was small talk and in jokes - yes including the dick jokes which I'll admit my inner 12 year old enjoyed the hell out of - that even in tough times gave the show a humorous edge and made it seem like Sam and Dean actually liked each other and enjoyed each others' company. 

And yet Season 7 included the completely unnecessary Amy-debacle. Was that her name? The one played by Jewel Staite. It was "secreths and lieths" again for the sake of drama and angst. It literally served no purpose other than that.  

Quote

but I was actually more partial to the finale (Written by Kripke).

Was Kripke still involved during Season 6? I thought he left after Season 5 and never really looked back. Could be, of course. I admit, I`m too lazy to check right now. Either way, it was not an episode I cared for in the least. 

[Wayward Son]

23 minutes ago, Icarus said:

I don't see it like this IMO at this time the majority of the fans were J2 fans, with a small minority of Cas/Misha fans, this has now changed with Misha having a much larger fanbase than he did for the first few seasons. 

As I said in my post it wasn't only the Cas fans she alienated it was the Bobby fans, those who appreciated the impala as the boys home, those who want to see the Winchesters possess an extended circle outside each other be it Cas, Bobby or secondary characters such as Rufus. In my opinion the majority of fans are still J2 fans. However, most can also appreciate the extra dimension others bring to the show. It is only a small, but loud, minority who want rid of everyone else and for Sam and Dean to have no other friends and family they can rely on. It was these fans Sera catered to and that's why the viewer count almost halved between 6.01 and 7.22.

ETA: In my opinion we have two small, loud and opposing factions in fandom. One side is to use a political analogy the hard core right i.e the extreme bi!bro fans who want only the brothers and disregard everything else. The other side are the hardcore left i.e the Cas fans who want him in every ep and to equal the brothers. I think most fans lie in the middle of these extremes. They want Sam and Dean to remain the central focus, but they also acknowledge that there is a place to enjoy additional secondary characters and plots. Sera made the mistake imo of ignoring these middle ground fans and catering to a small extreme set instead. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Was Kripke still involved during Season 6? I thought he left after Season 5 and never really looked back. Could be, of course. I admit, I`m too lazy to check right now. Either way, it was not an episode I cared for in the least. 

Yes, Kripke was involved very much in S6. Gamble was supposed to be running the day-to-day operations, but Kripke was there breaking episodes, and he wrote the finale The Man Who Knew Too Much. In fact, if you watch the Paley Festival panel that was done in S6, it actually seems like Kripke is still running the show and Gamble is just some writer they added to the panel.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

I don't think Gamble disliked Dean.  I think she liked both boys. I do think she might have had a little crush on Sam (and really, that pull-up scene was A+ man-candy) but I think that was relatively minor in terms of story.  

See, I don't think that scene was included simply because Sera wanted to get Jared shirtless. IMO, it was an important character moment showing us Sam was not Sam, and it was in contrast to the shirtless Dean scene earlier in the episode. I guess I'm just not that impressed by shirtless scenes in general.

Edited March 2, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

Ah okay, thanks for the info. I just know that Singer stepped up more later on because Gamble had problems keeping to the budget. So Singer basically got responsible for the financing aspect of it.

If Kripke was involved creatively in Season 6, then my opinion of him just lowered a bit more.

[AwesomO4000]

17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

And yet Season 7 included the completely unnecessary Amy-debacle. Was that her name? The one played by Jewel Staite. It was "secreths and lieths" again for the sake of drama and angst. It literally served no purpose other than that. 

I actually disagree.

The Amy-debacle lasted a total of 4 1/2 episodes, from start to finish. And only 1 episode after the lie was revealed. And within that one episode, Sam and Dean had it out, with Dean actually standing up for and explaining his side in a way Sam could understand, Sam explained to Dean in a way that actually made sense as to why he was angry, and Sam saw that Dean had a point and they reconciled with a stronger partnership. To me that actually served a purpose and it was over and done fairly quickly. Compared to season 9's season long ansgt-fest where it took 10 episodes for the lie to be revealed and then the next 13 episodes for them to angst about it, only to come to the same conclusion, the Amy-debacle to me was small potatoes and handled much better. It was basically the same thing: Dean does something he thinks is right behind Sam's back and lies to Sam about it - Sam finds out and is angry and expresses his anger - Sam ultimately understands that he would do the same thing in Dean's shoes and they get back together. Except that one took 4 1/2 episodes at most while the other took an entire season of angsting (from Dean) and bitching (from Sam) to conclude.

While I agree that two of those 4 in between episodes in the Amy debacle were probably the weakest of the season for me, one was one of my favorites from the entire series and the concluding episode where they reconcile was strong, in my opinion. And thankfully both sides of the argument made sense and had a strong point rather than "because I said so, and I'd do it again" and "I'm angry so I'm going to say things that are entirely untrue just to hurt you, so there."

I know which one I prefer.

[Icarus]

26 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

They want Sam and Dean to remain the central focus, but they also acknowledge that there is a place to enjoy additional secondary characters and plots. 

This is exactly how I feel EXCEPT that the "secondary" characters need to be relevant, to have a decent story and for a while, well up until quite recently CAS was in the most part very badly written, he was written for the sake of being in an episode to give J2 time off - that is how it seemed to me - just my opinion.  So although I like to have other characters relate to Sam and Dean, just having them there doesn't work for me.  Also it works better for me when the characters are relevant/part of whatever story/mytharc Sam and Dean are involved in (apart from back story etc which are of interest anyway). So to sum up I personally like to have Bobby, Rufus types and I like Cas and Crowley but and it is a big but they have to get the story lines for all four S/D/C/C working better if they want a more ensemble cast to work.

[Katy M]

41 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

See, I don't think that scene was included simply because Sera wanted to get Jared shirtless. IMO, it was an important character moment showing us Sam was not Sam, and it was in contrast to the shirtless Dean scene earlier in the episode. I guess I'm just not that impressed by shirtless scenes in general.

And although there were other ways they could do it, it also showed anti-possession tattoo in place.

[Wayward Son]

@DittyDotDot @Geordiegirl1967

In regards to season seven. I'm one of the rare few that neither hates or loves the season. I have very mixed views on the season, which is why it comes in the middle when I rank the seasons. 

Overall, season seven wasn't to my personal tastes. However, I do have respect for the work behind it as I feel it had a consistent, and occasionally enjoyable, narrative. Death's Door was an absolutely phenomenal episode for instance.

My overall thoughts on the season ( as I mention in more detail above) comes down to; "Sam and Dean good. Everything and everyone else atrocious". So that's why my thoughts are mixed. Parts I enjoyed, others... not so much. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DeeDee79]

6 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

@DittyDotDot @Geordiegirl1967

In regards to season seven. I'm one of the rare few that neither hates or loves the season. I have very mixed views on the season, which is why it comes in the middle when I rank the seasons. 

Overall, season seven wasn't to my personal tastes. However, I do have respect for the work behind it as I feel it had a consistent, and occasionally enjoyable, narrative. Death's Door was an absolutely phenomenal episode for instance.

My overall thoughts on the season ( as I mention in more detail above) comes down to; "Sam and Dean good. Everything and everyone else atrocious". So that's why my thoughts are mixed. Parts I enjoyed, others... not so much. 

Season 7 was pretty much a mixed bag for me also. I enjoyed How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters, Death's Door, Time After Time, Plucky Pennywhistle's, Party on, Garth and Of Grave Importance. I wasn't a big fan of the Leviathan story line even if the barrage of Dick Roman puns were amusing which basically makes the rest of the season kinda meh for me.

[Wayward Son]

2 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Season 7 was pretty much a mixed bag for me also. I enjoyed How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters, Death's Door, Time After Time, Plucky Pennywhistle's, Party on, Garth and Of Grave Importance. I wasn't a big fan of the Leviathan story line even if the barrage of Dick Roman puns were amusing which basically makes the rest of the season kinda meh for me.

Nice to hear from someone else who finds it a mixed bag! I have usually found the season produces strong feelings of love or hatred, so it is nice to encounter someone else who is sitting on the fence so to speak. 

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Nice to hear from someone else who finds it a mixed bag! I have usually found the season produces strong feelings of love or hatred, so it is nice to encounter someone else who is sitting on the fence so to speak. 

I'm sure someone else will come along and sit on the fence with us :)

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I'm sure someone else will come along and sit on the fence with us :)

I'll sit on the fence with you.  I liked a lot to loved 13 episodes, and really didn't like 6 episodes and the rest were just so-so.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

@DittyDotDot @Geordiegirl1967

In regards to season seven. I'm one of the rare few that neither hates or loves the season. I have very mixed views on the season, which is why it comes in the middle when I rank the seasons. 

Overall, season seven wasn't to my personal tastes. However, I do have respect for the work behind it as I feel it had a consistent, and occasionally enjoyable, narrative. Death's Door was an absolutely phenomenal episode for instance.

My overall thoughts on the season ( as I mention in more detail above) comes down to; "Sam and Dean good. Everything and everyone else atrocious". So that's why my thoughts are mixed. Parts I enjoyed, others... not so much. 

Well, I didn't say it was my favorite season, it would be middle ranking for me too. I was just saying that I don't have any hatred for it like many seem to. I do happen to prefer S7 to everything that's come after, but I also prefer almost everything that came before it more. TBH, I find like like some parts of every season and other parts, not so much. ::shrugs::

Edited March 3, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

I liked a lot  of s7. I loved the Leviathan, Dick Roman is my favorite villain of the show. I was not upset that Bobby died because I don't like Bobby. I loved Slash Fiction. I liked Frank. I got tired of the Halluciferations. Loved Eliot Ness, and meeting Charlie. And I loved the Alpha Vamp meeting...but it all kind of just went....pfft at the end. 

All the Dick jokes ALL OF THEM FOREVER.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

I'll sit on the fence with you.  I liked a lot to loved 13 episodes, and really didn't like 6 episodes and the rest were just so-so.

Yay! We'll give you a comfy spot :)

[AwesomO4000]

Brought over from "The Raid" episode thread:

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Can I ask what episode you're referring to? And it might be best if you respond in the all episodes thread in case we go off topic :) <3

Sure, Wayward Son. And actually Castiel didn't actually say "bad choices" - that's my shorthand for when people get on Sam's case for his choices - so that likely threw you. Also even though the argument was lengthy, the "lecture" part was fairly short - probably more of a statement. (Though in today's terms it would be considered a "mic drop.")

I was referring to the disagreement Sam and Castiel had in "I Believe the Children Are Our Future" concerning Jesse, the antichrist. Even though both Dean and Sam objected to killing Jesse, it was more Sam and Cas who got into it. And when Sam argued for giving Jesse a chance, he hadn't done anything yet, and if they told him the truth, maybe he'd make the right choice... Castiel got all dramatic and judgemental and said "You didn't. And I can't take that chance," and flounced off while Sam had to be guilty.* Of course Castiel completely forgot to mention - even though it would've been a good point to his argument  - that he himself had also made bad choices in regards to Lucifer getting raised (like letting Sam out of the panic room and helping to hold Dean in the green room) or any of the other angels who made bad choices along the way. So maybe a small point, but it always bugged me how judgemental Castiel was being there when he'd made bad choices himself also, but it was left looking like Sam was the only one and was the only one getting called out on it.

* And he did feel guilty, because we heard it later in his plea to Jesse - that Sam had to believe that someone would make the right choice, even if he didn't.

Edited March 4, 2017 by AwesomO4000
because mike doesn't = mic

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

All the Dick jokes ALL OF THEM FOREVER.

*snicker* :)

[sarthaz]

They'd save a lot more people if Dean would just buy a freakin' OtterBox.

[Diane]

3 hours ago, sarthaz said:

They'd save a lot more people if Dean would just buy a freakin' OtterBox.

True, but so funny.

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, sarthaz said:

They'd save a lot more people if Dean would just buy a freakin' OtterBox.

But then they would have to buy a new Otter Box every time they switch phones. LOL.  That could get pricey!

[rue721]

Brought from the episode thread:

 

12 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, if it makes you feel any better, it's the only animal I've ever hit and I've lived most of my life in rural areas where deer and other wildlife are serious road hazards. I did, however, roll my little itty bitty car back in college on the nicest, clearest day possible, on a very straight stretch of road where there was no traffic or road hazards. I was just not paying attention, got caught in the gravel on the shoulder and panicked. Believe it or not, I barely damaged the car and drove it across two states to college the next day.

OMFG! I'm glad you were fine! Apparently, you "know how to fall"? ;)

Actually, just this morning, I was thinking about Sam's apparently ~lovingly rebuilt~ '06 Charger, and how I would actually prefer at that point if he had been driving a real hooptie. Or at least the least cool car in the world. Like an '01 Ford Focus or something. That he had ~lovingly rebuilt~ as well, perhaps ;)

Anyway, so the reason an '01 Focus occurred to me in particular is because that's my mom's car, and THAT made me wonder about how different the show would have been if Sam and Dean drove around in a really goofy car. Such as an '88 Ford Festiva, which was my family's car when I was growing up. ;) It had no airbags and the seat belts didn't work, and if we bought something big we would tie the truck closed with string and then I would sit in the back and hold onto whatever big thing it was. So in a way, it was also a "classic" a la the Impala ;) Anyway, I think that it would make the show a whole lot more like My Name is Earl (which I already associate with SPN because of the shared soundtrack). Not sure if that would be a bad thing or a good thing, though ;)

OTOH it would probably be more convenient for Sam and Dean to have a really stripped down car. The best mechanic I've ever known actually drove the most stripped down old pickup I've ever seen. His son restored classic cars, so he had all these gorgeous cars at home, but he still liked this truck whose engine he had rebuilt one time on the side of the highway (or so he said, I don't know enough about cars to even know if that's possible ;) ). He knew he could keep it going no matter what, plus, he could do dirty jobs with it without worrying. Although the gas mileage was for shit, so he was also always calculating how much those dirty jobs would actually pay once he accounted for what he'd need to spend on gas

[auntvi]

12 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Such as an '88 Ford Festiva

I'm trying to  picture how the Winchester arsenal would fit in the hatchback!

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

Actually, just this morning, I was thinking about Sam's apparently ~lovingly rebuilt~ '06 Charger, and how I would actually prefer at that

I did a research project and posted my  findings in the episode thread. Icame to the conclusion it was not  rebuilt.

1 hour ago, auntvi said:

I'm trying to  picture how the Winchester arsenal would fit in the hatchback!

I'm trying picture how the Winchesters would fit in it.

[ILoveReading]

On 2017-03-02 at 3:48 PM, Icarus said:

This is exactly how I feel EXCEPT that the "secondary" characters need to be relevant, to have a decent story and for a while, well up until quite recently CAS was in the most part very badly written, he was written for the sake of being in an episode to give J2 time off - that is how it seemed to me - just my opinion.  So although I like to have other characters relate to Sam and Dean, just having them there doesn't work for me.  Also it works better for me when the characters are relevant/part of whatever story/mytharc Sam and Dean are involved in (apart from back story etc which are of interest anyway). So to sum up I personally like to have Bobby, Rufus types and I like Cas and Crowley but and it is a big but they have to get the story lines for all four S/D/C/C working better if they want a more ensemble cast to work.

I've always found it ironic that the one season they cut Misha they had a perfect story line set up for him.  They could have used MC as the the Leviathan boss.  It would have added that personal element to the story.  How do they take out the Leviathans but save their friends.

As for s7 its just kind of there.  There were episodes I enjoyed but I thought the overall story was lacking.   It started off interesting enough but it fell off the rails when they turned the Leviathans into politicians.   This show needs to stay away from politics.  The hallucination story went on way to long.   Dean's depression ultimately went no where.  It was never really explored.

Plus, I could never figure out why the Leviathans would go searching for the tablet.  I means, they're creatures that no one knows how to kill, or even exists. The Winchesters were the only ones who even knew that the world was at risk.  So the Leviathans think its a great idea to search for something that contains nothing other than instructions on how to kill them.   I could buy they wanted it secure but no one, other than the leviathans knew it existed in the first place.

Edited March 11, 2017 by ILoveReading

[trxr4kids]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm trying picture how the Winchesters would fit in it.

It'd be like a clown car. Sadly I can't find a good enough image.

[rue721]

Festiva's audition reel:

 

4 hours ago, auntvi said:

I'm trying to  picture how the Winchester arsenal would fit in the hatchback!

Oh, just about anything can fit in that gaping maw of a trunk! It's actually very convenient ;)

3 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

Sadly I can't find a good enough image.

Ready for its closeup, Mr. DeMille!

[trxr4kids]

Thanks @rue721 you inspired my search. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D3-eZa8V4g

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

The Winchesters were the only ones who even knew that the world was at risk.  So the Leviathans think its a great idea to search for something that contains nothing other than instructions on how to kill them. 

Maybe they thought it might've also had something else? The tablet that Metatron got a hold of had power in it in addition to whatever was written on it.

Another idea is that if the angels had ever decided to do something about the Leviathans once they regrouped (I imagine they were still somewhat shell-shocked after Castiel killing a bunch of them), they might have known about the tablets, so the Leviathans might have wanted to make sure that they got it first. They didn't expect that there would be two hackers who would find out what they were doing. But arrogance (including underestimating the Winchesters and insulting Crowley) ultimately lead to their downfall, and I can see them wanting to get a hold of the tablets, but not being careful enough about it as being a symptom of this.

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Maybe they thought it might've also had something else? The tablet that Metatron got a hold of had power in it in addition to whatever was written on it.

 

Not only possible power, but the demon tablet had lots of stuff on it beyond sealing the gates of Hell.  Maybe the Leviathan tablet would have told them how to be even more powerful, or had some good human recipes in it.

[Wayward Son]

Random question as a result of reading the vampire diaries finale thread; what would your ideal final supernatural episode be like? 

How would you end things with Sam and Dean? For Cas and Crowley etc. Would they all go out in an epic blaze of glory? Would some live to keep on the good fight? Would some retire into a normal life etc...  

[DittyDotDot]

17 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Random question as a result of reading the vampire diaries finale thread; what would your ideal final supernatural episode be like? 

How would you end things with Sam and Dean? For Cas and Crowley etc. Would they all go out in an epic blaze of glory? Would some live to keep on the good fight? Would some retire into a normal life etc...  

EVERYONE DIES HORRIBLY AND GRUESOMELY!!!

No, seriously, I don't know that I have an ultimate ending I'd like to see, I just want them to do it justice. What that means, I don't know.

[Pondlass1]

9 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I just want them to do it justice.

Me too.  I'd hate the show to limp away with plummeting ratings. I'd prefer they announce it as the final season (possibly a shorter season) and go out with a BANG leaving us gagging for the movie.

I prefer the "we've got work to do" scenario - tossing weapons into the Impala and closing trunk lid, fade to black.  Also - Dean gets to use the grenade launcher in the final scene.

[sarthaz]

20 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Random question as a result of reading the vampire diaries finale thread; what would your ideal final supernatural episode be like? 

How would you end things with Sam and Dean? For Cas and Crowley etc. Would they all go out in an epic blaze of glory? Would some live to keep on the good fight? Would some retire into a normal life etc...  

Lucifer battles Crowley for Hell ... and wins.  He remakes Hell into a scary torture-zone again.  Dean restarts the trials, cures Crowley for real, closes the gates of Hell forever ... and dies.  Death reaps him.  They share some pie.  Castiel undergoes some other kind of trials to return all the angels to Heaven ... and explodes ... and meets God.  They talk.  God remakes Heaven into a real heaven and gives Castiel a gift ... he turns him into a real boy and sends him back to Earth to grow old and die.  Sam takes over global MoL operations and keeps the world mostly safe from monsters.  Dean finds peace in heaven.  

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, sarthaz said:

Lucifer battles Crowley for Hell ... and wins.  He remakes Hell into a scary torture-zone again.  Dean restarts the trials, cures Crowley for real, closes the gates of Hell forever ... and dies.  Death reaps him.  They share some pie.  Castiel undergoes some other kind of trials to return all the angels to Heaven ... and explodes ... and meets God.  They talk.  God remakes Heaven into a real heaven and gives Castiel a gift ... he turns him into a real boy and sends him back to Earth to grow old and die.  Sam takes over global MoL operations and keeps the world mostly safe from monsters.  Dean finds peace in heaven.  

I agree about Castiel. My ideal ending for him would be an opportunity for him to live out a mortal life and die. I think he'd be far happier during a finite life on earth than an infinite one in heaven. 

I think for me personally I'd rather both brothers lived or both died. If only so we can be spared from listening complaints, from the fans of the brother who died, every time the show is mentioned. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Wayward Son

[rue721]

I'm a sap, and my ideal happy ending would be Sam, Dean, and Cas all have wives and families. But that's not going to happen. Well, maybe for Cas? But Sam and Dean will probably just go to heaven and keep fighting monsters there. Their Heaven Memorex might just be an endless string of MotW fights for all we know nowadays.

I think the show can probably come up with a much better finale than I can, though. Just based on Fan Fiction alone. YMMV, but I thought that was a fantastic episode, and maybe the best (as in, most creative and most moving and most show-appropriate) retrospective that I've ever seen a show do.

ETA:  well, I should change that to "SOs and families." I don't care if they get married to WOMEN in particular. I just want marriage and babies for all. LOL. Yes, sappy.

Edited March 11, 2017 by rue721

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Random question as a result of reading the vampire diaries finale thread; what would your ideal final supernatural episode be like? 

How would you end things with Sam and Dean? For Cas and Crowley etc. Would they all go out in an epic blaze of glory? Would some live to keep on the good fight? Would some retire into a normal life etc...  

Here was my answer when @Demented Daisy asked a similar question. It's from a couple of years ago, but I still like the idea, even if it's fairly sappy: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/7237-speculation-only/#comment-581183

I might have to think about an alternative ending that would take into account what has happened since... that is if I hang in there that long. With the recent potential character assassinations, I'm becoming disillusioned.

[catrox14]

Sam, Dean and Cas all die together after killing Crowley and Lucifer, (Michael isn't even in the mix because he's never int he mix)

Or and an Angel ending. Where they go off together to a battle they know they won't survive but it saves the world.

Edited March 11, 2017 by catrox14

[RulerofallIsurvey]

4 hours ago, rue721 said:

I'm a sap,

I'm a sucker for a happy ending too.  

I don't want them to die.  Even if they're shown in Heaven, as I don't think they would really like that.  Either carrying on fighting the good fight or finding some peace so they can lay their weary heads... :)

[FlickChick]

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Here was my answer when @Demented Daisy asked a similar question. It's from a couple of years ago, but I still like the idea, even if it's fairly sappy: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/7237-speculation-only/#comment-581183

I might have to think about an alternative ending that would take into account what has happened since... that is if I hang in there that long. With the recent potential character assassinations, I'm becoming disillusioned.

I read your ending Awesomo and I like it. What I think I like most is what you wrote was the REAL Sam and Dean. These writers will never convince me of something that I know is out of character for either Sam or Dean. As disillusioned as I am, I'll always have that.

[MysteryGuest]

I also want a happy ending.  After all that's happened to them, they deserve something good.  And I don't think heaven holds all that much appeal for them anymore.  We've watched them die countless times, and I don't think I'll watch if the show kills them off for good.  It will make me too sad.  

Edited March 12, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[Wayward Son]

Based on discussion currently occurring in the bitch vs jerk thread.

If you were hired by the CW to train new writers for the show and one of the tasks you could give them was to make them watch a total of twenty episodes ( 5 episodes for each of the main characters) to familiarise them with the inner workings of each character what 5 would you pick. 

So that's 5 episodes that get to the heart of what makes Dean tick, 5 eps that do the same for Sam, 5 eps for Cas and 5 for Crowley. 

Remember it's what episodes help us get to know these character best. It's not necessarily what episodes you'd count as your favourite ;) 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DittyDotDot]

Well, first, I think new writers should watch the entire show...but that's not a challenge, so...

Dean: 

• Dead Man's Blood
• Folsom Prison Blues
• Are You There, God? It's Me, Dean Winchester
• Hello, Cruel World
• First Born

Sam

• In My Time of Dying
• Mystery Spot
• Metamorphosis
• When the Levee Breaks
• The Great Escapist

Cass

• It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester
• Point of No Return
• The Man Who Would Be King
• Reading Is Fundamental
• Goodbye Stranger

Crowley

• The Devil You Know
• Weekend at Bobby's
• Survival of the Fittest
• Sacrifice
• King of the Damned

[DeeDee79]

7 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Based on discussion currently occurring in the bitch vs jerk thread.

If you were hired by the CW to train new writers for the show and one of the tasks you could give them was to make them watch a total of twenty episodes ( 5 episodes for each of the main characters) to familiarise them with the inner workings of each character what 5 would you pick. 

So that's 5 episodes that get to the heart of what makes Dean tick, 5 eps that do the same for Sam, 5 eps for Cas and 5 for Crowley. 

Remember it's what episodes help us get to know these character best. It's not necessarily what episodes you'd count as your favourite ;) 

Hmm..good question! Here are my picks:

Dean:

Route 666: Before you flay me alive yes this ep was godawful but I included it because Dean has had a fucked up relationship with women. My feeling is as Cassie was the first woman that he fell in love with who rejected him after he attempted to let her in on he what was really going on in his life must have affected him which is why he only goes for short term attachments. Lisa of course was the only exception.

Something Wicked: We are given a glimpse into how Dean's relationship with his father and his role as his brother's caretaker started from a young age.

All Hell Breaks Loose Part II: It had been drilled into him before this ep regarding his role as big brother but this is when we see what lengths he would go to in order to take care of Sam at the expense of himself.

Jus In Bello: Dean believes that dying while fighting for what's right is the honorable choice.

Trial and Error: Dean is a badass but doesn't think very highly of himself; killing is all that he's good at.

Sam:

Pilot: He made a conscious decision to step away from hunting and it's shown how content he is in his new life. This is when we see the ongoing story of how Sam longs for a normal life but hunting sucks him back in.

Scarecrow: His built up resentment towards his family spills out but he still feels longing for his brother after they are separated ( which happens more than once!)

Bloodlust: Sam doesn't buy into the hunter's mantra of all supernatural beings are evil; they should be judged individually and not as a whole.

Heart: Sam is open to love and after Jess which ties into his need for stability.

Fresh Blood: Sam is not a bitch; he can kill with the best of them.

Cas:

On the Head of a Pin: He's loyal to his mission but won't turn a blind eye when he sees wrongdoing by someone he loves ( Uriel).

When the Levee Breaks: He is willing to risk death to do what he feels it right.

My Heart Will Go On: He will stop in his tracks to prevent harm to Sam and Dean.

The Man Who Would Be King: He makes big decisions for what he feels will make things right but he loses sight of the consequences in the process.

The Devil in the Details: He continuously makes decisions to make atonement for his perceived sins at the risk of his own well being:

Crowley:

This is pretty hard since he's not that complex in my eyes; these will be thin examples:

Weekend at Bobby's: He's an opportunist that will twist everything to his advantage despite his so-called word.

Family Matters: He revels in holding all of the cards.

Slash Fiction: He's eager to ally himself with other powerful beings to elevate his own status.

Clip Show: He fights dirty.

Inside Man: He wants friendship and family ties as he confides in Dean and wants to keep Rowena around because she's family.

[AwesomO4000]

On 3/11/2017 at 7:02 PM, Wayward Son said:

Based on discussion currently occurring in the bitch vs jerk thread.

If you were hired by the CW to train new writers for the show and one of the tasks you could give them was to make them watch a total of twenty episodes ( 5 episodes for each of the main characters) to familiarise them with the inner workings of each character what 5 would you pick. 

So that's 5 episodes that get to the heart of what makes Dean tick, 5 eps that do the same for Sam, 5 eps for Cas and 5 for Crowley. 

Remember it's what episodes help us get to know these character best. It's not necessarily what episodes you'd count as your favourite ;) 

Okay this is going to be tough...

Dean:

1. Something Wicked
2. Ghostfacers
3. The End
4. Sam, Interrupted
5. Soul Survivor

Honorable mentions: Hello, Cruel World, Baby, Alpha and Omega

Sam:

1. All Hell Breaks Loose, Pt 1
2. Mystery Spot
3. The Man Who Knew Too Much
4. The Great Escapist
5. Book of the Damned

Honorable mentions: My Bloody Valentine, The Girl Next Door, Just My Imagination

Castiel:

1. It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester
2. Abandon All Hope
3. The Man Who Would Be King
4. Reading Is Fundamental
5. Do You Believe in Miracles

Honorable mentions: I Believe the Children..., Mommy Dearest, 99 Problems

Crowley:

1. Two Minutes to Midnight
2. The Man Who Would Be King
3. Meet the New Boss
4. Sacrifice
5. Road Trip

Honorable mention: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell

And I'm adding another category -

The brothers' relationship:

1. Tall Tales
2. A Very Supernatural Christmas
3. Point of No Return
4. Hello, Cruel World
5. Alpha and Omega

Honorable mentions: Scarecrow, What Is and What Never Should Be, Time After Time After Time (with cut scene), Fan Fiction

Edited March 13, 2017 by AwesomO4000
Because I couldn't leave out "Fan Fiction"

[catrox14]

Okay my list. I can more readily identify the Dean eps but I'll be back with the others.

DEAN:
Dead in the Water
Something Wicked
Faith
On the Head of a Pin
First Born

[sarthaz]

Jared's a wonderful actor, but terribly unconvincing when yawning.  One of his worst is in The Born-Again Identity.  Here's your challenge: find every example of Sam yawning in Supernatural.  Go.

[auntvi]

4.17 It's a Terrible Life