OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[Curio]

7 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I did enjoy the episode, way more than DoS (is anyone still watching it?).

Unfortunatley, yes. I don't even like it, I'm just watching it because it's written by A&E and I can't help but laugh at the writing similarities between that show and this show. Once again, they just can't help themselves and write about characters having sex or kissing where one half of the equation doesn't remember the act happening. It's weird to me that questionable consent is their go-to plot device.

[YaddaYadda]

7 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

What's with 80s nostalgia and horror? I just caught the first episode of Stranger Things on Netflix. It, like A&E's Dead of Summer, is set in the 80s, and has supernatural elements in it. I did enjoy the episode, way more than DoS (is anyone still watching it?).

I haven't watched DoS, but Stranger Things is all kinds of awesome and A&E must be crying that they didn't think to do this.

[daxx]

Haven't watched DOS but my boys and I LOVE Stranger Things so much!

[Rumsy4]

5 hours ago, Curio said:

Unfortunatley, yes. I don't even like it, I'm just watching it because it's written by A&E and I can't help but laugh at the writing similarities between that show and this show. Once again, they just can't help themselves and write about characters having sex or kissing where one half of the equation doesn't remember the act happening. It's weird to me that questionable consent is their go-to plot device.

Wow. Because it went over so well in OUAT. Not. I watched the first two episodes, but haven't felt motivated to catch up yet. I might binge it once it's over.

[KingOfHearts]

DOS is so much worse than OUAT or OUATIW... at their worst. I'll watch Selfless, Brave and True before I'll go through an episode of DOS. At least with OUAT, the fantasy aspect keeps you somewhat engaged. The 80s summer camp horror is not done all that well and the focus is on uninteresting characters. 

[Camera One]

I just finished reading only the first volume of "The Count of Monte Cristo"... it's so long and I can't see how this story can possibly last five volumes.  I'm going to avoid reading any mention of the book until I finish it, to avoid spoilers.  But anyway, I'm surprisingly enjoying it a lot and it is way easier to read than I had imagined.  I can already imagine that "Once" is only going to name-drop this book.  Though it would have been fun to see Edmond Dantes commiserate with Mary Margaret about their experiences.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Camera One

[profdanglais]

You might already know this, but if not... The Count of Monte Cristo was originally written as a serial. That's why it's so long, the story needed to be dragged out for as long as possible. It was basically the weekly television programme of its day :)

[Camera One]

LOL, so I guess I've watched Season 1.  I'm going to make a few comments about the book below (avoid if haven't read).

Like most books, it's really easy to lose interest when they switch to a different focus or different set of characters.  In Volume 1, once it got back to Edmond in prison, it was more interesting again.  I feel like if I hadn't taken a Napoleonic history course, I might have been bored.  So far, the payoff has been pretty good with finding out the whole story of what happened by the end of Volume 1.

I'm in the second volume, and the first slight lack of payoff was the stuff with Edmond helping Mr. Morrel.  Couldn't he have done it without pushing the man practically to suicide?  He was nicer to that greedy neighbor of his.   I was hoping he would reveal his identity to his old friend.  Hopefully in the future.

I read non-stop for a day, but now I've started Chapter 31, and they've just shifted focus to some new character, so I've lost motivation to read more (for now).

Back to working on my Regina oil painting, I guess.  

Edited August 5, 2016 by Camera One

[kitticup]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I just finished reading only the first volume of "The Count of Monte Cristo"... it's so long and I can't see how this story can possibly last five volumes.  I'm going to avoid reading any mention of the book until I finish it, to avoid spoilers.  But anyway, I'm surprisingly enjoying it a lot and it is way easier to read than I had imagined.  I can already imagine that "Once" is only going to name-drop this book.  Though it would have been fun to see Edmond Dantes commiserate with Mary Margaret about their experiences.

The Count of Monte Cristo was my favorite as a kid.  

[Camera One]

I was reading a review of the "Suicide Squad" film by movie critic James Berardinelli.

This line could also apply to "Once":

Quote

The core problem may be that writer/director David Ayer’s screenplay is a mishmash of overcooked action sequences and incoherent plot development. By the movie’s end, we’re left with a sense that supervillains aren’t actually evil, they’re just misunderstood. This kind of inversion isn’t new (not that long ago, Maleficent did it for a younger audience) but Ayer’s handling of it is uncertain at best.

 

In a different way, even this quote is similar to the attractions of "Once".  Though I wouldn't say "Once" uses enough source material to satisfy "fanboys and fangirls" of fairy tales, myths and Disney.

Suicide Squad is a comic book movie made primarily for fanboys and fangirls. Those with previous knowledge of the characters and the universe that spawned them may have a fun time seeing them on screen and dissecting the differences between their cinematic incarnations and their pencil-and-ink originals.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Camera One

[daxx]

I disliked Suicide Squad so much, if I'd been by myself I would have left halfway through. Granted reading about the crappy stuff Leto did colored my perception of the character. The only thing I even liked was Harley Quinn. I do wish they had put her in a more traditional Harley costume.  

Spoiler

They not only gave the villians sob back stories which I expected, none of the heroes were allowed to be heroic.

[daxx]

Just watched the most adorable movie, The Decoy Bride. David Tennant, it takes place on a tiny Scottish island, fake wedding trope. 

[Panopticon]

On August 5, 2016 at 2:51 AM, kitticup said:

The Count of Monte Cristo was my favorite as a kid.  

One of mine too. I had a middle school French teacher who taught out of an abridgment and I'm so grateful that she did. My French improved massively because I was so eager to get to the next chapter and find out what happened... And then I promptly read all of Dumas' works that had been translated into English, which helped enormously with my history classes (not that Dumas felt the need to be strictly accurate all the time but there's plenty that is correct). 

I hope OUAT is kind to the source material, but if not their's won't be the first lousy adaptation.

(Still bugged that the Musketeers are stuck in the Land of Untold Stories. And where was d'Artagnan?!) 

[Mari]

5 hours ago, Panopticon said:

(Still bugged that the Musketeers are stuck in the Land of Untold Stories. And where was d'Artagnan?!) 

You mean, you're expecting them to know and acknowledge d'Artagnan isn't one of the three Musketeers?  With OUaT's attention to accuracy and detail, I just figured they wouldn't know (or wouldn't expect us to know) that Athos, Porthos, and Aramis were the Musketeers of the title.

Or, well, there is their sketchy relationship with math.  To them, maybe the three Musketeers are Athos, Porthos, Aramis, and d'Artagnan?  

Edited August 14, 2016 by Mari
Strangely enough, there isn't a Y in Musketeers. Who knew?

[YaddaYadda]

I think they should just leave The Musketeers alone. After what they did with Camelot, I'm just gonna take a pass. Milady de Winter would probably fit in better with Once than they would anyway. I'm not even sure why they're going for the Count of Monte Cristo.

[RadioGirl27]

The Three Musketeers is one of my favourite books so I hope they stay the hell away from it. 

Please, A&E, do it for this poor fan.You have already destroyed king Arthur, don't do the same with Athos, Porthos, Aramis, d'Artagnan and Milady de Winter.

[Camera One]

14 hours ago, Souris said:

I've seen the pilot for "Timeless." I was not impressed.

I just looked it up and watched it and I concur.  I like the lead actress, but the lead man seems to be annoying.  The stuff with the African American character seemed a bit too unsubtle.  And the idiotic "You wrote this notebook but you don't remember it" trope is so tiresome.  No doubt the villain once again has a predictable back-sobstory to explain why he is doing all this.  In some ways, I think this series would be more enjoyable as a procedural with stand-alone episodes, seeing the culture shock of visiting different points in history.  After watching Eric Kripke's horrible "Revolution" series, the world-building is no doubt going to be make-it-up-as-we-go-along.   In many ways, "Revolution" fell into the same problem as "Once", except with despicable characters who you hated.  The "best" characters were all villains.  They created a post-apocalyptic world where technology had regressed to Civil War-era weaponry, yet introduced a secret base with helicopters and high-powered modern weapons.  Just like "Once" introduced a place without magic, and then allows any type of magic to be performed.  It seems like so many new series fall into the same traps... it's hard to be optimistic about new shows after being burned time and time again with promising premises but predictable and problematic execution.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

I agree about Revolution. It was interesting to start with, then it got too convoluted and boring. It was almost a mercy killing when the show was cancelled. I love Elizabeth Mitchell, but she tends to play most of her roles in the same enigmatic style. 

[Camera One]

It was almost a mercy killing when the show was cancelled.

Mercy for the viewers!  It almost made me dread The Snow Queen and hate The Magic Mirror.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I love Elizabeth Mitchell, but she tends to play most of her roles in the same enigmatic style. 

She is one of the actors who always seem to be playing themselves. It's not Juliet or Ingrid - it's Elizabeth Mitchell. It probably explains why A&E used her name in the Dead of Summer script.

Quote

Oh my gosh, how many crappy shows have I watched...

Including Once? ;)

Edited August 14, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I thought Elizabeth Mitchell's role in "V" was much of a straight-up heroine, and she did not give off those creepy vibes at all.  

Oh my gosh, how many crappy sci-fi/fantasy shows have I watched...

Edited August 14, 2016 by Camera One

[maryle]

Just watched stranger things because of some talked about it here. 

So good! Scary whitout be too much and so much better overall  than DOS. The young actors, the writing, the storyline. The two show are similar in the genre but the similarity stop there.

I am just not sure with I am next season to follow up this particular story and character or have a complete different story in the same universe and the upside down. It is also better than Once except maybe season 1.

[Writing Wrongs]

I liked Revolution and have watched it couple of times.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

So good! Scary whitout be too much and so much better overall  than DOS. The young actors, the writing, the storyline. The two show are similar in the genre but the similarity stop there.

Stranger Things captures the 80s vibe much better than DOS or OUAT does in flashbacks.

[Writing Wrongs]

Quote

 Walt Disney Pictures is moving forward with a live action Little Mermaid movie!

Word broke back in May that Walt Disney Pictures was potentially eyeing their 1989 animated hit for the live action treatment. Today, it seems that those plans are coming to fruition as Deadline reports that a live action Little Mermaid is, indeed, on the way. What’s more, the studio is pairing Lin-Manuel Miranda and Alan Menken to create a blend of old and new songs that will be featured in the upcoming big screen version. 

Disney’s animated The Little Mermaid made over $211 million at the box office and became a bestseller on home video, popularizing songs like “Under The Sea” and “Part of Your World.” Based on Hans Christian Andersen’s Danish fairy tale, it tells the story of a 16-year-old mermaid princess named Ariel who longs to be human.

Universal Pictures and Working Title have also been in development on their own Little Mermaid project with Chloe Grace Moretz set to star and Rebecca Thomas directing from a screenplay by Richard Curtis.

Miranda, who will also produce the live action Little Mermaid alongside Marc Platt, has a number of upcoming projects with Disney. He’s providing songs for this November’s animated adventure Moana (from original Little Mermaid directors John Musker and Ron Clements) and he’s part of the cast of the upcoming Mary Poppins Returns. Set to star Emily Blunt in the title role, the film will soon begin production in England for a December 25, 2018 release.

The live action Little Mermaid joins a slate of upcoming live action Disney features that also includes Beauty and the Beast, The Jungle Book 2, Cruella, Maleficent 2, Dumbo, Mulan, Winnie the Pooh, Pinocchio, Genies, Night on Bald Mountain and The Sword in the Stone. A live action Tinkerbell movie starring Reese Witherspoon is also in parallel development to a live action Peter Pan directed by Pete’s Dragon writer and director David Lowery.

It will never end.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Writing Wrongs

[pezgirl7]

The Little Mermaid is my all time favorite Disney movie, so I'm interested to see the live action version. I hope they don't mess with the original songs too much. I'm really curious to see how they're going to do all the underwater scenes.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm more interested in the adaptation that other studio is doing, based more on the HCA source.

[pezgirl7]

I find the original HCA story incredibly depressing. I wonder how much the other film will stick to the original ending? It could be pretty macabre. I think I'll stick with the singing crabs and dinglehoppers. :)

[Camera One]

The ending could be very ethereal and beautiful if done right.  Though I agree the story is so depressing I'm not sure I really want to see it play out.

I would imagine an adaptation nowadays would be Little Mermaid Warrior Princess with lots of epic ship battles and merpeople trident attacks (for the non-Disney one).  Snow White and the Huntsman was pretty much an action movie.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I finished reading "The Count of Monte Cristo".  It ended up taking me about 3-4 weeks.  I liked it, and found it pretty engaging all the way to the end.  Now I can feel free to watch some of the movie adaptations, though surprisingly, all of them (and all the print books) are checked out at the library.  Spoilers ahead.

I did temporarily stop reading for a day or two in Volume 2, when the POV shifted from Edmond to other characters in Italy.  I did want comeuppance for the principal villains, but it was a bit frustrating to see The Count mess with a bunch of innocent lives as well, though I suppose the only one which bothered me was his suggestions of poison to Mrs. Villefort leading to the death of Mr. Nortier's servant.  Overall, the author did provide payoff with The Count revealing his true identity to the initial villains, though it required reading 4/5 of the book to get there.  I must say I kinda hoped for a fairy tale ending for Edmond and Mercedes, though I can understand how they were both too damaged to resume what they had.  Maybe it was okay in the 19th century, but the thought of him sailing into the sunset with the slave girl half his age was a bit icky.  I thought he was going to have her get together with Albert or something, since he thought of her as a daughter for much of the novel.

I really do not see what "Once" can do with the book in a single episode, other than name-drop.  But more likely, they might subvert the message of the book. The Count was out for revenge, and so was Regina, right?  So similar... not.  The only parallel which *might* fit the book more is if Snow or Charming initially became consumed with revenge since Edmond, just as Snow, would seek revenge against individuals who truly deserved it.  But it's also different since Snow needed to stop Regina because she was hurting other people, whereas The Count's enemies were no longer hurting others.  There was just injustice these villains lived a good life despite the evils they committed and their lack of remorse.  This book was more about how the villains ended up happily ever after despite their deeds, which drove The Count's revenge.  In some ways, The Count was more like Dark Swan.  By the end of the book, The Count realized he went too far and realized too late that he was also hurting innocent people, and I'm afraid they are going to parallel this with Regina, whose vendetta against Snow had no basis to begin with.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Camera One

[TheGreenKnight]

I plan to see both Little Mermaid's. I love the original tale, but I also love the Disney film.

[Camera One]

It might have been interesting to see a Count of Monte Cristo flashback back in Season 1, with a slight change in the circumstances.

Mary Margaret/Snow would have been Edmond Dante, falsely accused of crime, both in the Enchanted Forest and in Storybrooke.

Regina would have been Danglers, who was jealous, and initiated the scheme.  

King George would have been Villefort, who prosecuted Snow in Storybrooke.

With a slight change, if Kathryn had actually been interested in Charming, she would have been Fernand, making Charming Mercedes.

In Storybrooke, Mary Margaret could have come out of jail to find David with Kathryn.  She could also have awakened from the Sleeping Curse some other way, and found Charming married to Abigail.  

Snow or Mary Margaret would dress up as a mysterious Countess and exact her revenge on all three evil-doers.  

Edited August 19, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

There's more thought put into this thread about the Count of Monte Cristo than A&E probably put into his upcoming appearance on Once.

Edited August 19, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I was thinking that if they insisted on extending the concept of split personality beyond Regina, they shouldn't just do a one-off guest star for "The Count of Monte Cristo".  They could have Ginny play a mysterious Countess of Monte Cristo who arrives in Storybrooke, not evil, but determined to exact revenge on those who had hurt her and her family (namely Regina and Rumple), no matter the cost.   The Countess Neige would have learned the magic arts herself to prepare herself to destroy The Evil Queen.  This would provide The Evil Queen with an formidable enemy, and provide our heroes with a slightly unstable Avenger they will ally with, but slowly thaw.

[Camera One]

I forgot to mention that Madame Neige de Monte Cristo will also reward those who had helped her, helping them to achieve their happy endings.

[Writing Wrongs]

I just watched a cute movie on Amazon called Eleanor's Secret.

Quote

A boy must learn to read an ancient spell that will keep Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan and the rest of his storybook friends alive for future generations of children.

Trailer

[daxx]

Watched Disney's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954) today for reasons. I'm actually surprised how well this old movie holds up to watching. A lot of old movies just fall flat.

[Camera One]

I've now watched both the 1934 and 2002 movie adaptations of "The Count of Monte Cristo".  Movie spoilers below.

Quote

 

A lot of old movies just fall flat.

Yeah... it is a shame with some of those old movies.  I know the 1934 Count of Monte Cristo is a classic, but it felt a little dated, especially the romance scenes.  The main actor is really good, though, and I thought his physical transformation into someone who was unrecognizable was more believable than the modern version.  His "look" and demeanor was quite altered.  I had hoped older films would be more faithful, but disappointed how much they simplified the book.  I suppose it's inevitable given the convoluted plot, but it felt like an abridged retelling.  Still, I would say it was a decent adaptation.

I was really disappointed the 1934 movie omitted Dantes' father.  The feelings he had towards his father was a major reason I liked Edmond right from the start.  I guess glossing over familial bonds over romantic ones has been a long-running trend.  I was pleasantly surprised to see Dantes' father show up in two short scenes in the 2002 one, but the father/son bond was still severely underplayed.  In the book, he visited his father first.  I was a little put-off by how they showed him having sex on the beach instead, when in the book, Edmond made it clear he was waiting until marriage.  I suppose this did allow the twist at the end that Albert was Edmond's son.  

The 2002 movie with modern filming technology was able to create a more immersive experience with the location shots and the visuals.  It was also very well cast, though Edmond looked very similar as The Count so it was hard to believe no one recognized him.  I thought the movie overall was fine.  I watched the Bonus features with the people who made the film, and found the writer so full of himself.  The director/editor explained in the deleted scenes how it's "character development or pacing", and he always chose pacing, asking "does it slow the film down to the point it's not worth it?"  

I felt a lot of the changes that the writer made to the book weren't justified by the final product.  The Writer said he decided to make Fernand the best friend of Edmond to have "more emotional commitment" and how it often happens in civil wars.  Which is true, but the rationale for the friendship wasn't convincing on-screen.  I didn't buy how they could be buddy-buddy in the first scene, but really Fernand was jealous of everything and could live with what he did.  The jealousy was based on what Fernand said in the film, but it wasn't convincing (telling vs. showing why and backing it up).  The director/editor said they cut a lot of the setup scenes in the first 20 min, but in doing so, it made no sense to me why Danglars would even talk to Fernand.  There was a lot of setup with no follow-through.  Dantes' revenge on Danglars was just tacked on, since most of it focused on Fernand and Villefort.  Dantes said Morrell's fortunes would change but we never saw that (though I was glad Dantes visited Morrell in this film vs. omitting this in the older one).  Again, Edmond's revenge plans were extremely simplified in this movie, to the point where some of it came out of nowhere (like Fernand and Villefort killing each others' fathers).  The Writer also said, "You gotta have a swordfight" and the director was all about the climatic swordfight, and I don't know... it felt like action for the sake of action.  Albert looking up to his father was so undeveloped in this movie, and I think the original story where Mercedes told Albert about what his father did to Edmond Dantes would have been more effective, rather than throwing everything in a big confrontation scene before the swordfight.

Both movies created a happy ending with Edmond and Mercedes, which I didn't mind.  

This book is so long that I think to really do it justice, it would require a 4-hour miniseries, which has been done for a lot of classics.  

Edited August 30, 2016 by Camera One

[Mathius]

King Arthur returns in the last place anyone ever expected him to.

[Rumsy4]

Hah! I just posted this in the cast in other roles thread. 

[Camera One]

From the link Rumsy4 posted:

Exactly how King Arthur and Merlin will fit into Transformers: The Last Knight remains unclear, though rumor has it Optimus Prime will seek out an ancient artifact (Excalibur, perhaps?) that traces back to medieval times.

This sounds like a lost episode of "Once".  Maybe this is where Arthur went after he escaped from Underbrooke.

[Dianthus]

Richard Chamberlain was in a TV movie adaptation of The Count of Monte Christo back in '75. In addition, he was Aramis in The Three Musketeers and its two sequels. Plus, he was Phillipe/Louis in The Man in the Iron Mask. The man loves his Dumas.

He starred in a live-action musical version of Cinderella called The Slipper and the Rose.

I've watched all of these, tho' it's been a while.

[Spartan Girl]

In case that OUAT will let us down with the Aladdin storyline, may I recommend reading The Forbidden Wish by Jessica Khory, an alternate version of the story where the genie is female. It is a fantastic read, full of action, romance, and plenty of female characters that kick some spectacular butt.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[Camera One]

A&E picked a great time to tackle literary classics, since it is quite the trend.

NBC is planning a TV series with a modern-day version of Oliver Twist. Except Oliver is going to be 20-year-old female who finds a bunch of outcasts who catch wealthy criminals.  It will be "contemporary" and "sexy".  
http://programminginsider.com/network/nbc-eyes-oliver-twist-procedural/

[tennisgurl]

That sounds...exactly like at least six other shows I can name off the top of my head. And completely missing the point of Oliver Twist. Like, completely missing any point at all. Smooth NBC.  

[Curio]

Quote

NBC is planning a TV series with a modern-day version of Oliver Twist. Except Oliver is going to be 20-year-old female who finds a bunch of outcasts who catch wealthy criminals. It will be "contemporary" and "sexy".

That's not even Oliver Twist anymore.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

That sounds...exactly like at least six other shows I can name off the top of my head. And completely missing the point of Oliver Twist. Like, completely missing any point at all. Smooth NBC.  

You're missing the point. It's contemporary and sexy!

[Shanna Marie]

2 minutes ago, Curio said:

That's not even Oliver Twist anymore.

I liked that concept when it was called Leverage.

[Rumsy4]

Sounds like Robyn Hood. Maybe this is about Green baby's future life. It makes sense ...

[KingOfHearts]

Emerald City is a better concept, to be honest. Which, I just found out is premiering in January. Interesting. I can't wait to see another adaptation botch up the world of Oz.

Edited September 6, 2016 by KingOfHearts