OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[Mari]

So you like the baddie songs then? :)

 

Possibly.

 

My favorite song in Grease is Rizzo's "There Are Worse Things I Could Do."  Not a villain song, but definitely one of the darker songs.

[shoregirl]

So you like the baddie songs then? :)

Mine would have to be Part of Your World. All the songs in The Little Mermaid were fabulous.

They really were. Part of Your World is probably my favorit as well. Poor Unfortunate Souls is probably my favorite villian song though.

[legaleagle53]

So since the current story arc seems to be partly referencing Dante's Commedia (particularly the first part of the trilogy, Inferno), I was curious as to how many people have read it and what they think of the shout-out to the famous line "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"  ("Abandon all hope, ye who enter").  

 

Dante borrowed heavily from Greco-Roman mythology when he wrote the trilogy (especially for Inferno, which remains my favorite part of the trilogy to this day), and he very skillfully blended it with early 14th-Century Christian themes to write one of the funniest, most biting commentaries on the Church and the political, cultural, and social mores of the Florence and North-Central Italy of his time.  If you can find a good translation of it (John Ciardi's is the best, but it's been out of print for some 40-odd years), it's well worth the time and effort to read it -- and it's fun to compare and contrast Dante's vision of Hades' kingdom as seen through Christian eyes with the version we're getting on OUAT.

 

By the way, I just happened to find John Ciardi's translation online:  http://archive.org/stream/inferno00dant_2/inferno00dant_2_djvu.txt Enjoy!

Edited March 22, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Serena]

The Commedia definitely needs to be read with copious explanations. Basically every person he references or who shows up is either a famous fictional character, or an actual person he really, really didn't like (or, in some cases, that he really, really liked). Anyway, it's one of literature's greatest works.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Serena

[FurryFury]

Not really a fairytale show, but I was watching season 2 of Daredevil and it struck me - this is how you should write the "beast and the beauty" relationship. I'm talking about Karen Page and Frank Castle (aka The Punisher). It's not even a canon romance (but it does give me - and not just me, it seems, judging by Tumblr) all kinds of feels and it made me remember Rumbelle and the god-awful writing for them. This is how you create a dark, tortured, angsty villain (well, not quite a villain in Frank's case, but close) and a girl who believes in them. I never thought this trope could appeal to me, but I guess that, like always, it's the execution that matters. It's weird to realize now that I could have liked Rumbelle!

[YaddaYadda]

I agree with the whole Frank/Karen parts. Seriously though, watching Daredevil is a lesson in how badly Once is written. I kept wishing that Once didn't shove the useless flashbacks down our throat. And there was plenty kitchen sink conversations. In episode 3, when Frank has DD tied up, they're having a conversation that's not only great, but it's also fleshing out motivation, explaining away what Frank believes, and what Matt believes as well, and it was amazing.

 

I wish Once was more like that with the writing.

[ParadoxLost]

I don't know if anyone has seen the new Huntsman trailer which is basically Evil Queen vs. Frozen v. Thor.  But there is no way that this movie won't inspire to show to try another arc that is Regina vs. Zelena at the core of it.

[Camera One]

I've only seen "Enchanted" once a long time ago but I saw a bit of it today, and some of the lines were very similar to "Once"... like when the evil queen villain gleefully announced she had sent the princess "to a place with no happily ever afters".  I had forgotten that this movie was a lot more fun when it came to the culture shock of a fairy tale character to "our" world.

[Rumsy4]

Enchanted is one of my favorite movies ever! Amy Adams is fantastic as the naive fairy tale princess in the real world. 

[Writing Wrongs]

Snow White's sister is getting a movie:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/disney-plans-live-action-film-879528?facebook_20160331

 

Disney also got the rights to The Paper Magician and its sequels:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-nabs-movie-rights-paper-877728

Edited March 31, 2016 by Writing Wrongs

[KingOfHearts]

I used to wonder about Rose Red and if she'd ever make an appearance on Once Upon a Time. (I highly doubt it nowadays.) It's very intriguing that Disney would pick this movie up. But what live-action movie aren't they picking up that's based on their animated classics?

[Camera One]

Snow White's estranged sister who goes on an adventure with Grumpy?  LOL. Then this really has nothing to do with the original story.  If it's the guy who wrote "Snow White and the Huntsman", no thanks.  

[legaleagle53]

Snow White's estranged sister who goes on an adventure with Grumpy? 

 

Come to think of it, that would be an interesting episode for OUAT.  Can you just imagine how dumbfounded everyone would be to learn that like Cora, Queen Ava had had a second daughter that she never told anybody about?  Hopefully, though, she wouldn't quite be to Snow what Zelena is to Regina, if you know what I mean.

 

Come to think of it, I can see that as the perfect way for Hades to get even with Snow and Emma after they finally defeat him and leave the Underworld with Hook in tow:  "Oh, by the way -- Cora wasn't the only one who lied about how many children she had.  Say hello to Ava's secret love child Rose Red when you get back to the Overworld!"

[Shanna Marie]

Not that I expect these writers to be aware enough of the source material to know this, but the Snow White in the "Snow White and Rose Red" story is not the same Snow White who's in the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs story. Snow White and Rose Red aren't princesses (until they marry princes after freeing them from enchantments).

 

But on this show, yeah, either Ava or Leo had a secret love child, or they made some kind of deal along the way that forced them to give up their first-born child, and they've always pretended that Snow was their only child, but meanwhile Rose Red was being brought up by some evil person and she's back for vengeance.

[legaleagle53]

Not that I expect these writers to be aware enough of the source material to know this, but the Snow White in the "Snow White and Rose Red" story is not the same Snow White who's in the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs story. Snow White and Rose Red aren't princesses (until they marry princes after freeing them from enchantments).

 

But on this show, yeah, either Ava or Leo had a secret love child, or they made some kind of deal along the way that forced them to give up their first-born child, and they've always pretended that Snow was their only child, but meanwhile Rose Red was being brought up by some evil person and she's back for vengeance.

 

Which of course, elevates Cora and Regina to sainthood in comparison.

[Camera One]

Oh gosh, don't give them any ideas.  That is completely up their alley, though.  Rose Red had a horrible life, much like James and Zelena, of course.

[RadioGirl27]

I hope A&E never read this thread. This is perfect for them.

[Shanna Marie]

Hmm, I was just thinking while watching The Magicians and noting all the cast crossovers that I'd love for them to find a role for Anne Dudek to play on this show. She can be our evil (but damaged, since adoption is the worst, so it's not her fault) Rose Red. We'll learn that she and Regina teamed up at some point in the past (during the Regina vs. Snow era, because we haven't had nearly enough flashbacks of that time), but she screwed Regina over somehow (because she may be a victim, but we have to remember who the ultimate victim is) and was punished for it, which is why we haven't seen her until now. She's been in a vault/box/urn/mirror/etc. Rumple also ran into her, as the dwarf who got caught in a log, only it was his bad foot instead of his beard, and he made her a deal when she freed him, but she hasn't cashed in on it until now. Now she's coming to take the throne that's rightfully hers, only to find that her sister is a schoolteacher and Regina is mayor, and taking back the fourth-grade class that's rightfully hers doesn't have quite the same ring to it. She was supposed to have married Merida's father (since being a bear runs in their family), but he ended up with Merida's mom instead. Or maybe her bear was Merida's father's brother, and he was killed by some member of that evil White clan, so they've ruined her life twice.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

She was supposed to have married Merida's father (since being a bear runs in their family), but he ended up with Merida's mom instead. Or maybe her bear was Merida's father's brother, and he was killed by some member of that evil White clan, so they've ruined her life twice.

 

Maybe that's the bear Davy Crockett killed when he was only 3?  To save a young Snow, of course...(so it's still that evil White clan's fault).

[Camera One]

One of the songs from "Frozen" played in a random playlist today, which made me wonder what A&E had against "Tangled".  I'm not a huge fan of the new computer animated fairy tales, but they spent an entire half season on "Frozen", and Merida got inserted everywhere in 5A with two full centrics, but Rapunzel was not the Disney version nor the traditional fairy tale version, and was a throwaway one-off.  Huh?  

[RadioGirl27]

Emma and Hook are A&E's version of Tangled.

[Camera One]

I can see the similarities between Hook and Flynn Rider for sure.  Though Emma and Rapunzel I find quite different.  If anything Emma is more like Mother Gothel in the sense she is untrusting and has walls (not the obsession with staying young part, LOL... though Dark Emma did something Mother Gothel-esque... it would have been fun to see Dark Swan imprison Henry in a tall tower in 5A).  I suppose Belle in some ways in like Rapunzel in the sense that she too was "trapped" (literally, in "Family Business") and wanted to see the world and have adventures.  So that makes Rumple Flynn Rider.  Hmm...

Edited April 9, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

Though Emma and Rapunzel I find quite different.

 

They both have long blonde hair, were born with magical powers (including a helpful one that can help heal wounds), were born princesses and their parents were nice rulers, they didn't realize they were princesses growing up, they were separated as babies from their royal families and lived crappy childhoods with parental figures who only really cared about the power they possessed (Mother Gothel and Ingrid), fell for non-magical and charming thieves, and reunited with their royal parents as young adults. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Curio

[Camera One]

Good ones.  Rapunzel is still way too innocent and unjaded in comparison though.  Emma to me is a gritty person from our world, so I think that's why it's very hard for me to see her as Rapunzel-like.  Emma's childhood and Rapunzel's childhood were very different.  Even though Mother Gothel was selfish, Rapunzel was told that she was loved and was actually being suffocated by her parental figure.  Whereas Emma felt abandoned and unwanted, until her short sojourn with Crazy Town, uh, I mean Ingrid.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Camera One

[Souris]

Disney is doing a live-action Peter Pan. Which I find a bit odd, given that we just had a live-action Pan that flopped.

[HoodlumSheep]

Disney is doing a live-action Peter Pan. Which I find a bit odd, given that we just had a live-action Pan that flopped.

Of course they are.

[daxx]

Disney is doing a live-action Peter Pan. Which I find a bit odd, given that we just had a live-action Pan that flopped.

They did a nice job with Cinderella so I'll wait and see on this one.

[Camera One]

I wish Disney would do more mash-ups instead.  Enough with the regurgitated stuff.

[Trini]

There are so many other fairy tales/fables etc.; and Disney is successful enough to take a risk. I don't need another re-do either. (On the other hand, a more dramatic, action-y Mulan I wouldn't mind.)

[KingOfHearts]

 

(On the other hand, a more dramatic, action-y Mulan I wouldn't mind.)

I would love to see that as long as there's no Mushu. I'm extremely hyped for Beauty and the Beast coming next year.

[Camera One]

Mushu ruined the animated "Mulan" for me.  The first 15 minutes of the movie was quite epic and dramatic.  And then Mushu hits.  

Edited April 14, 2016 by Camera One

[LizaD]

I can't imagine Disney ever touching a live action Mulan. If you don't mind subtitles and bad subtitles at that, there's a China released film. I think it was called Hua Mulan and you can find it on youtube. Jackie Chan's kid is in it which is how I found it, looking for Jackie Chan movies. It's done in the style of period epic war movies so yeah no Mushu.

But I did like Mushu. The "dishonor on your cow" line cracks me up everytime and I don't even know why except that I'm easily entertained.

 

ETA: Trailer

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAETFTIo_I

Edited April 14, 2016 by LizaD

[Camera One]

He had a few good lines, especially later on.  His long intro sequence with the ancestors was very abrupt for me.

[Camera One]

I watched some clips of the movie to remind myself, and Shang is a bit of a jerk, when he first finds out Mulan's real identity.  The "Once" crew could have a field day with him when/if they bring him into the show.  It'll make Gaston look like a teddy bear, LOL.

[Trini]

I can't imagine Disney ever touching a live action Mulan. If you don't mind subtitles and bad subtitles at that, there's a China released film. I think it was called Hua Mulan and you can find it on youtube. Jackie Chan's kid is in it which is how I found it, looking for Jackie Chan movies. It's done in the style of period epic war movies so yeah no Mushu.  ...

 

About a year ago it was in reported to be in development; which is why I mentioned it. But thanks for informing me about the Chinese film! That looks about what I was hoping for.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Trini

[LizaD]

Yeah they bought a script but I still have my doubts to whether it actually gets made. An all or majority Asian cast in a big production Hollywood movie is unheard of. They'd have to "whitewash" the story and characters to a degree and I don't know how feasible that is with Mulan. It's not exactly like say the controversy over the upcoming Ghost in the Shell.

 

Considering Disney has just about all their animated catalogue in the development pipeline, we'll see.

[Serena]

I saw the new Huntsman movie yesterday. It was so awful. The Jessica Chastain character was a Strong Female Character out of the Once!Merida mold (she was insufferable). The word love (love never succeeds! Yes, it does! Love doesn't mean anything!) was repeated in a 2-hour film more times than "Heroes and Villains" was repeated during Once season 4. Charlize Theron isn't in it nearly as much as she should have been (I'm assuming it was her choice, because she was clearly the breakout character of the first movie). And it clearly insults the viewer's intelligence, because

they "resurrect" the Huntsman's wife and pretend he's been hung up on her all along when... didn't he have a TLK with Snow White in the first movie?!

 

The costumes were absolutely stunning, though.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Serena

[Camera One]

So "The Jungle Book" live version is a success.  None of the animal Disney movies have been touched... will this change in Season 6?  

[KingOfHearts]

So "The Jungle Book" live version is a success. None of the animal Disney movies have been touched... will this change in Season 6?

Unless you count 101 Dalmatians or Robin Hood.

[Camera One]

I considered that, but excluded Robin Hood since there has been plenty of versions with actual humans, and also excluded Cruella since she couldn't have conversations with the dogs.  Mowgli actually talks to animals who talk back, and I don't think "Once" has the budget for tons of talking CGI animals.  I suppose they could have just Mowgli grown up, and then have people-versions of Scar and Simba, etc.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

I suppose they could have just Mowgli grown up

Mowgli becomes Tarzan! Shocking twist!

[Trini]

If they could afford the CGI, I'm sure OUAT would mash-up Jungle Book/Tarzan/Lion King. (I'm certain someone on this forum suggested this already.)

 

But those are the obvious ones; how about The Rescuers?

[Camera One]

Mowgli becomes Tarzan! Shocking twist!

 

I actually thought Graham was Mowgli back in Season 1.  Considering he grew up with wolves.  Until it became clear he won't actually get a backstory beyond Huntsman.

[Dianthus]

Splashing around in the shallow end of the pool, I could really go for eye candy like a grown-up Mowgli, a la Jason Scott Lee. OTOH, I kinda got my fill of jungle with Neverland.

[Spartan Girl]

Splashing around in the shallow end of the pool, I could really go for eye candy like a grown-up Mowgli, a la Jason Scott Lee. OTOH, I kinda got my fill of jungle with Neverland.

Ooh Jason Scott Lee was SO HOT in that old Jungle Book movie!

[Writing Wrongs]

I just saw Huntsman: Winters War. Uhhh, it was ok. It's like they threw in evil Elsa and Merida into a movie with The Evil Queen and The Huntsman. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I just saw Huntsman: Winters War. Uhhh, it was ok. It's like they threw in evil Elsa and Merida into a movie with The Evil Queen and The Huntsman.

Sounds like something A&E would write.

[Shanna Marie]

Sounds like something A&E would write.

I've seen a review that compared the movie to Once Upon a Time, in the sense that it looks like they threw together a bunch of Disney characters and gave them a backstory together, plus the flashback/flashforward structure.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I've seen a review that compared the movie to Once Upon a Time, in the sense that it looks like they threw together a bunch of Disney characters and gave them a backstory together, plus the flashback/flashforward structure.

I've only seen the trailer, but it does look like Once Upon a Time in that sense. In all honesty, it looks like Frozen meets Snow White in PG-13 Universe guest starring Chris Hemsworth.

Edited April 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I've only seen the trailer, but it does look like Once Upon a Time in that sense. In all honesty, it looks like Frozen meets Snow White in PG-13 Universe guest starring Chris Hemsworth.

 

If it's like the first movie, 3/4 of it is just going to be action/fight sequences.

 

I was listening to a radio commenter talking about the current popularity of ordering many movies at once featuring various characters and combinations of them, and how it started with "Ironman" and the Marvel Universe with the "Avengers", and now with the DC universe with Batman vs. Superman, etc.  

 

I just wish Disney did the same thing with their animation.  They could have a series of movies with Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Mulan, Jasmine, etc. helping to save Fairytale Land from "Darkness", or going to other lands like Arendelle to help out their friends.  I guess the problem is most of them can't fight, but Cinderella could always use soapy water, Snow & Aurora can summon their animal friends, and remember, kindness, song, and a positive attitude can be powerful weapons.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Camera One