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OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

Camera One

By Camera One
in Once Upon A Time

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Camera One
Camera One

If A&E wrote "The Wizard of Oz": "Dorothy threw the water on the witch.  "I'm meeltting," she cried. The Winkies looked at Dorothy in horror: "You are NO DIFFERENT than the Wicked Witch!"

Camera One
Camera One

Can you imagine if A&E wrote other Fantasy stories?   Lord of the Rings Frodo: “No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or s

tennisgurl
tennisgurl

I first heard the story of the Count of Monte Cristo when I was a kid watching this kids PBS show called Wishbone, about a cute pet dog who imagined himself into classic stories, while also helping hi

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

(edited)

So since the current story arc seems to be partly referencing Dante's Commedia (particularly the first part of the trilogy, Inferno), I was curious as to how many people have read it and what they think of the shout-out to the famous line "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"  ("Abandon all hope, ye who enter").  

 

Dante borrowed heavily from Greco-Roman mythology when he wrote the trilogy (especially for Inferno, which remains my favorite part of the trilogy to this day), and he very skillfully blended it with early 14th-Century Christian themes to write one of the funniest, most biting commentaries on the Church and the political, cultural, and social mores of the Florence and North-Central Italy of his time.  If you can find a good translation of it (John Ciardi's is the best, but it's been out of print for some 40-odd years), it's well worth the time and effort to read it -- and it's fun to compare and contrast Dante's vision of Hades' kingdom as seen through Christian eyes with the version we're getting on OUAT.

 

By the way, I just happened to find John Ciardi's translation online:  http://archive.org/stream/inferno00dant_2/inferno00dant_2_djvu.txt Enjoy!

Edited by legaleagle53
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Serena

Serena

(edited)

The Commedia definitely needs to be read with copious explanations. Basically every person he references or who shows up is either a famous fictional character, or an actual person he really, really didn't like (or, in some cases, that he really, really liked). Anyway, it's one of literature's greatest works.

Edited by Serena
FurryFury

FurryFury

Not really a fairytale show, but I was watching season 2 of Daredevil and it struck me - this is how you should write the "beast and the beauty" relationship. I'm talking about Karen Page and Frank Castle (aka The Punisher). It's not even a canon romance (but it does give me - and not just me, it seems, judging by Tumblr) all kinds of feels and it made me remember Rumbelle and the god-awful writing for them. This is how you create a dark, tortured, angsty villain (well, not quite a villain in Frank's case, but close) and a girl who believes in them. I never thought this trope could appeal to me, but I guess that, like always, it's the execution that matters. It's weird to realize now that I could have liked Rumbelle!

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

I agree with the whole Frank/Karen parts. Seriously though, watching Daredevil is a lesson in how badly Once is written. I kept wishing that Once didn't shove the useless flashbacks down our throat. And there was plenty kitchen sink conversations. In episode 3, when Frank has DD tied up, they're having a conversation that's not only great, but it's also fleshing out motivation, explaining away what Frank believes, and what Matt believes as well, and it was amazing.

 

I wish Once was more like that with the writing.

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I've only seen "Enchanted" once a long time ago but I saw a bit of it today, and some of the lines were very similar to "Once"... like when the evil queen villain gleefully announced she had sent the princess "to a place with no happily ever afters".  I had forgotten that this movie was a lot more fun when it came to the culture shock of a fairy tale character to "our" world.

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Writing Wrongs

Writing Wrongs

(edited)

Snow White's sister is getting a movie:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/disney-plans-live-action-film-879528?facebook_20160331

 

Disney also got the rights to The Paper Magician and its sequels:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-nabs-movie-rights-paper-877728

Edited by Writing Wrongs
legaleagle53

legaleagle53

Snow White's estranged sister who goes on an adventure with Grumpy? 

 

Come to think of it, that would be an interesting episode for OUAT.  Can you just imagine how dumbfounded everyone would be to learn that like Cora, Queen Ava had had a second daughter that she never told anybody about?  Hopefully, though, she wouldn't quite be to Snow what Zelena is to Regina, if you know what I mean.

 

Come to think of it, I can see that as the perfect way for Hades to get even with Snow and Emma after they finally defeat him and leave the Underworld with Hook in tow:  "Oh, by the way -- Cora wasn't the only one who lied about how many children she had.  Say hello to Ava's secret love child Rose Red when you get back to the Overworld!"

Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Not that I expect these writers to be aware enough of the source material to know this, but the Snow White in the "Snow White and Rose Red" story is not the same Snow White who's in the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs story. Snow White and Rose Red aren't princesses (until they marry princes after freeing them from enchantments).

 

But on this show, yeah, either Ava or Leo had a secret love child, or they made some kind of deal along the way that forced them to give up their first-born child, and they've always pretended that Snow was their only child, but meanwhile Rose Red was being brought up by some evil person and she's back for vengeance.

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

Not that I expect these writers to be aware enough of the source material to know this, but the Snow White in the "Snow White and Rose Red" story is not the same Snow White who's in the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs story. Snow White and Rose Red aren't princesses (until they marry princes after freeing them from enchantments).

 

But on this show, yeah, either Ava or Leo had a secret love child, or they made some kind of deal along the way that forced them to give up their first-born child, and they've always pretended that Snow was their only child, but meanwhile Rose Red was being brought up by some evil person and she's back for vengeance.

 

Which of course, elevates Cora and Regina to sainthood in comparison.

Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Hmm, I was just thinking while watching The Magicians and noting all the cast crossovers that I'd love for them to find a role for Anne Dudek to play on this show. She can be our evil (but damaged, since adoption is the worst, so it's not her fault) Rose Red. We'll learn that she and Regina teamed up at some point in the past (during the Regina vs. Snow era, because we haven't had nearly enough flashbacks of that time), but she screwed Regina over somehow (because she may be a victim, but we have to remember who the ultimate victim is) and was punished for it, which is why we haven't seen her until now. She's been in a vault/box/urn/mirror/etc. Rumple also ran into her, as the dwarf who got caught in a log, only it was his bad foot instead of his beard, and he made her a deal when she freed him, but she hasn't cashed in on it until now. Now she's coming to take the throne that's rightfully hers, only to find that her sister is a schoolteacher and Regina is mayor, and taking back the fourth-grade class that's rightfully hers doesn't have quite the same ring to it. She was supposed to have married Merida's father (since being a bear runs in their family), but he ended up with Merida's mom instead. Or maybe her bear was Merida's father's brother, and he was killed by some member of that evil White clan, so they've ruined her life twice.

RulerofallIsurvey

RulerofallIsurvey

She was supposed to have married Merida's father (since being a bear runs in their family), but he ended up with Merida's mom instead. Or maybe her bear was Merida's father's brother, and he was killed by some member of that evil White clan, so they've ruined her life twice.

 

Maybe that's the bear Davy Crockett killed when he was only 3?  To save a young Snow, of course...(so it's still that evil White clan's fault).

Camera One

Camera One

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One of the songs from "Frozen" played in a random playlist today, which made me wonder what A&E had against "Tangled".  I'm not a huge fan of the new computer animated fairy tales, but they spent an entire half season on "Frozen", and Merida got inserted everywhere in 5A with two full centrics, but Rapunzel was not the Disney version nor the traditional fairy tale version, and was a throwaway one-off.  Huh?  

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Camera One

Camera One

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(edited)

I can see the similarities between Hook and Flynn Rider for sure.  Though Emma and Rapunzel I find quite different.  If anything Emma is more like Mother Gothel in the sense she is untrusting and has walls (not the obsession with staying young part, LOL... though Dark Emma did something Mother Gothel-esque... it would have been fun to see Dark Swan imprison Henry in a tall tower in 5A).  I suppose Belle in some ways in like Rapunzel in the sense that she too was "trapped" (literally, in "Family Business") and wanted to see the world and have adventures.  So that makes Rumple Flynn Rider.  Hmm...

Edited by Camera One
Curio

Curio

(edited)

Though Emma and Rapunzel I find quite different.

 

They both have long blonde hair, were born with magical powers (including a helpful one that can help heal wounds), were born princesses and their parents were nice rulers, they didn't realize they were princesses growing up, they were separated as babies from their royal families and lived crappy childhoods with parental figures who only really cared about the power they possessed (Mother Gothel and Ingrid), fell for non-magical and charming thieves, and reunited with their royal parents as young adults. 

Edited by Curio
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Camera One

Camera One

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(edited)

Good ones.  Rapunzel is still way too innocent and unjaded in comparison though.  Emma to me is a gritty person from our world, so I think that's why it's very hard for me to see her as Rapunzel-like.  Emma's childhood and Rapunzel's childhood were very different.  Even though Mother Gothel was selfish, Rapunzel was told that she was loved and was actually being suffocated by her parental figure.  Whereas Emma felt abandoned and unwanted, until her short sojourn with Crazy Town, uh, I mean Ingrid.

Edited by Camera One
LizaD

LizaD

(edited)

I can't imagine Disney ever touching a live action Mulan. If you don't mind subtitles and bad subtitles at that, there's a China released film. I think it was called Hua Mulan and you can find it on youtube. Jackie Chan's kid is in it which is how I found it, looking for Jackie Chan movies. It's done in the style of period epic war movies so yeah no Mushu.

But I did like Mushu. The "dishonor on your cow" line cracks me up everytime and I don't even know why except that I'm easily entertained.

 

ETA: Trailer

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAETFTIo_I

Edited by LizaD
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Trini

Trini

(edited)

I can't imagine Disney ever touching a live action Mulan. If you don't mind subtitles and bad subtitles at that, there's a China released film. I think it was called Hua Mulan and you can find it on youtube. Jackie Chan's kid is in it which is how I found it, looking for Jackie Chan movies. It's done in the style of period epic war movies so yeah no Mushu.  ...

 

About a year ago it was in reported to be in development; which is why I mentioned it. But thanks for informing me about the Chinese film! That looks about what I was hoping for.

Edited by Trini
LizaD

LizaD

Yeah they bought a script but I still have my doubts to whether it actually gets made. An all or majority Asian cast in a big production Hollywood movie is unheard of. They'd have to "whitewash" the story and characters to a degree and I don't know how feasible that is with Mulan. It's not exactly like say the controversy over the upcoming Ghost in the Shell.

 

Considering Disney has just about all their animated catalogue in the development pipeline, we'll see.

Serena

Serena

(edited)

I saw the new Huntsman movie yesterday. It was so awful. The Jessica Chastain character was a Strong Female Character out of the Once!Merida mold (she was insufferable). The word love (love never succeeds! Yes, it does! Love doesn't mean anything!) was repeated in a 2-hour film more times than "Heroes and Villains" was repeated during Once season 4. Charlize Theron isn't in it nearly as much as she should have been (I'm assuming it was her choice, because she was clearly the breakout character of the first movie). And it clearly insults the viewer's intelligence, because

they "resurrect" the Huntsman's wife and pretend he's been hung up on her all along when... didn't he have a TLK with Snow White in the first movie?!

 

The costumes were absolutely stunning, though.

Edited by Serena
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Camera One

Camera One

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(edited)

I considered that, but excluded Robin Hood since there has been plenty of versions with actual humans, and also excluded Cruella since she couldn't have conversations with the dogs.  Mowgli actually talks to animals who talk back, and I don't think "Once" has the budget for tons of talking CGI animals.  I suppose they could have just Mowgli grown up, and then have people-versions of Scar and Simba, etc.

Edited by Camera One
KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

I've seen a review that compared the movie to Once Upon a Time, in the sense that it looks like they threw together a bunch of Disney characters and gave them a backstory together, plus the flashback/flashforward structure.

I've only seen the trailer, but it does look like Once Upon a Time in that sense. In all honesty, it looks like Frozen meets Snow White in PG-13 Universe guest starring Chris Hemsworth.

Edited by KingOfHearts
Camera One

Camera One

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(edited)
I've only seen the trailer, but it does look like Once Upon a Time in that sense. In all honesty, it looks like Frozen meets Snow White in PG-13 Universe guest starring Chris Hemsworth.

 

If it's like the first movie, 3/4 of it is just going to be action/fight sequences.

 

I was listening to a radio commenter talking about the current popularity of ordering many movies at once featuring various characters and combinations of them, and how it started with "Ironman" and the Marvel Universe with the "Avengers", and now with the DC universe with Batman vs. Superman, etc.  

 

I just wish Disney did the same thing with their animation.  They could have a series of movies with Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Mulan, Jasmine, etc. helping to save Fairytale Land from "Darkness", or going to other lands like Arendelle to help out their friends.  I guess the problem is most of them can't fight, but Cinderella could always use soapy water, Snow & Aurora can summon their animal friends, and remember, kindness, song, and a positive attitude can be powerful weapons.

Edited by Camera One

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