S02.E11: Holly

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Ashforth said:

I didn't click the links back then so I'm still ignorant, but it occurs to me that if we humans can survive and reproduce despite exposure to extreme radiation, maybe we will survive even after cockroaches are extinct.

I meant for that to be funny, but it's really bleak. :-(

I remember reading something where someone said that 3 things would survive the apocalypse: twinkies, cockroaches, and America's Next Top Model. 

[Token]

10 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I remember reading something where someone said that 3 things would survive the apocalypse: twinkies, cockroaches, and America's Next Top Model. 

Early America's Next Top Model or later seasons?  Because it started out great but has been really stupid for the past few years now.  I need to know if my apocalypse is going to be entertaining or complete hell!

[marinw]

10 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I remember reading something where someone said that 3 things would survive the apocalypse: twinkies, cockroaches, and America's Next Top Model

And The Simpsons.

[Earlwoode]

On 7/4/2018 at 12:15 AM, Umbelina said:

The colonies are either growing crops or cleaning up nuclear waste, both have which have been mentioned on the show.

The wars are against the rebels, and being fought in several areas of Gilead.  The rebels are Americans who fought Gilead, and still fight it, after the take over. 

Other soldiers are fighting the war, and many of them have econowives back home.

Other than that, the show hasn't clarified, which is annoying.

In the book the

  Reveal hidden contents

Rocky Mountain area

is particularly noted as a huge trouble spot for the wars, but there are many fronts, different people fighting, as well as people like Nick who is fighting inside the regime.

Well, if there is a war on than this neat little world with plenty of food and nice uniform clothing for everyone is even less believable.  So Gilead is being boycotted internationally and they still manage all of that, have tons of guys in the streets with guns (when you would thing they would be at the front fighting).  They have also lost half their workforce (women) but have a nice little working economy going.  Hmm, it really stretches credulity to think this place would work at all.  What is also not made clear is if the so called econowives (of which we saw one) get to work or just stay at home like all the others (except for the Marthas who are basically live in maids working in someone else's home).  I presume the Marthas are slaves and don't get paid?

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

Well, if there is a war on than this neat little world with plenty of food and nice uniform clothing for everyone is even less believable.  So Gilead is being boycotted internationally and they still manage all of that, have tons of guys in the streets with guns (when you would thing they would be at the front fighting).  They have also lost half their workforce (women) but have a nice little working economy going.  Hmm, it really stretches credulity to think this place would work at all.  What is also not made clear is if the so called econowives (of which we saw one) get to work or just stay at home like all the others (except for the Marthas who are basically live in maids working in someone else's home).  I presume the Marthas are slaves and don't get paid?

Responding to each bold.

There is not "plenty of food" and it's been mentioned repeatedly on the shows.  "No more wheat bread this year" and people being thrilled to see "oranges" for the first time in years, etc.

Uniforms are cheaper actually, and easier to make.  Fewer cloths, threads, patterns, much less expertise needed.  Nothing elaborate so foot pedal sewing machines could do it, saving fuel. 

It's still the USA, there ARE tons of people.

Their economy blows, that's what Fred was constantly stressing about, and the reason all of the commanders were so thrilled and hopeful that Canada was willing to talk to them.  Gilead has been boycotted by the entire world, no trade at all.  Except for the idiotic Mexico one-off story.

Econowives, and this was also mentioned on the show, not just the book, are combination Martha/Handmaid/Wife.  In the book they wore striped uniforms, Red, Blue, Green to denote they do all three.

No women get paid.  Ever.  Remember when they took all the women's money away, and their jobs?  Men apparently get some kind of salary, but it's not specified.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Umbelina

[Earlwoode]

22 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It's still the USA, there ARE tons of people.

Tons of people with little food, a war on, and no trade?  Sounds like a recipe for disaster (or ripe for an uprising).  Of course, no economy would  survive a situation like that.  Not with everyone looking as prosperous and well fed as these people all look.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Earlwoode

[Umbelina]

38 minutes ago, Earlwoode said:

Tons of people with little food, a war on, and no trade?  Sounds like a recipe for disaster (or ripe for an uprising).  Of course, no economy would  survive a situation like that.  Not with everyone looking as prosperous and well fed as these people all look.

There ARE uprisings.  That's what the war(s) are.

There are still a ton of people, most, as you say, not doing as well as the Commanders we spend most of our time with.  Gilead is completely unsustainable, but it's stumbling along...for now.

[Earlwoode]

23 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Gilead is completely unsustainable, but it's stumbling along...for now.

Well, I'm sorry but to me it looks like it's anything but stumbling.  It looks picture perfect.  Here, I got this from a reviewer on Vulture.  She seems to have the exact same concerns as I do about the economy of Gilead:

But the society is, economically speaking, a wonder. Econo-families have plenty to eat and live in relatively comfortable circumstances. Medical facilities are not only up to par, they’ve all been redecorated to a minimalist white specification like something from a Daft Punk video. The shops feature bountiful produce, there is ostensibly still trade with outside nations, transit systems are fully operational, and uniforms for all ranks have been mass produced and distributed. How the hell is this possible?

http://www.vulture.com/2018/07/the-handmaids-tale-recap-season-2-episode-12-postpartum.html

Exactly, how the hell is this possible and she doesn't even mention the ongoing war which would have made rationing an absolute must especially if there is really no trade with the outside world?  The world building is severely flawed.

[Umbelina]

14 minutes ago, Earlwoode said:

Well, I'm sorry but to me it looks like it's anything but stumbling.  It looks picture perfect.  Here, I got this from a reviewer on Vulture.  She seems to have the exact same concerns as I do about the economy of Gilead:

But the society is, economically speaking, a wonder. Econo-families have plenty to eat and live in relatively comfortable circumstances. Medical facilities are not only up to par, they’ve all been redecorated to a minimalist white specification like something from a Daft Punk video. The shops feature bountiful produce, there is ostensibly still trade with outside nations, transit systems are fully operational, and uniforms for all ranks have been mass produced and distributed. How the hell is this possible?

http://www.vulture.com/2018/07/the-handmaids-tale-recap-season-2-episode-12-postpartum.html

Exactly, how the hell is this possible and she doesn't even mention the ongoing war which would have made rationing an absolute must especially if there is really no trade with the outside world?  The world building is severely flawed.

Vulture apparently didn't listen to the announcements in the grocery store, or look around at the new one this year.  The big one with all the lights is gone now, replaced by something that could have been around in the 1800s.  The store announcements said that "this will be the last of the wheat bread for the year."  Oranges hadn't been seen in Gilead for years first season.  Cinnamon is rationed only to homes with babies (this episode) etc.  Even last season, when Gilead was still beginning, there were many shortages mentioned, it looks like they tried to keep the old US store going for a while, but stopped by now.  That would make sense as shortages would increase.

The art work in Commander's homes and offices has been purloined from the museums.

We've only seen a medical facility used by the Commanders (leaders of this country) and while it's oddly clean and bright, there are no patients, not many doctors or nurses, no phones ringing.  It's probably a private clinic.

The Vulture reporter is also obviously not watching the show.  There is NO trade with ANY other nations, as has been made very clear over and over again on the show, and that's causing the shortages in everything.  They have crop colonies producing what they can, manual labor only.  Gasoline seems to be in short supply.  The only cars on the road belong to Commanders.  Ever seen Boston as a place where you can just park anywhere you want, because no one else is on the road?

I read that review as well, Vulture really blew that one, maybe a sub writer or something.

The USA has almost 326 million people.  Even if Gilead killed half of them *doubtful* and another million escaped?  They'd still have plenty of people.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Umbelina

[Jynnan tonnix]

On 6/27/2018 at 1:20 AM, AnswersWanted said:

 

Gilead broke Boston and now it snows there all the time? 

Also, black wolves of protection roam the suburbs where the electricity and water lines operate separately. 

Oh, and some Commanders have really cool muscle cars in their forbidden garages of self-loathing. 

Can't be bothered to read all the comments on this episode, but I loved this. We live about an hour South of Boston. There are coyotes galore, and we even have a  den of bobcats in the bushes behind our property, but I have yet to see any signs of wolves - especially of that stereotypical fairytale variety.

Frankly, I didn't realize I'd missed an episode. I watch this with my daughter & son-in-law, but we don't manage to get together every week,  and somehow  watched the "postpartum" episode before this when we realized we were going to be an episode apart.  I really didn't feel I would have been behind had I never found out this episode existed

[Earlwoode]

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The art work in Commander's homes and offices has been purloined from the museums.

 

Is it?  I thought his wife painted them seeing as he said she was an art teacher or something.

i don’t buy your explanations for the Gilead economy, sorry.  The place is too pristine and people seem very well fed. I’ve  seen places where there are food shortages and people spend half their time waiting in line not waltzing In to stores and checking out plumpness of the veggies.  If they wanted to make us believe Gilead is not in a good place economically, they should have made everything a little bleaker and more threadbare and with scarcer foodstuffs.

[LordOfLotion]

15 minutes ago, Earlwoode said:

Is it?  I thought his wife painted them seeing as he said she was an art teacher or something.

i don’t buy your explanations for the Gilead economy, sorry.  The place is too pristine and people seem very well fed. I’ve  seen places where there are food shortages and people spend half their time waiting in line not waltzing In to stores and checking out plumpness of the veggies.  If they wanted to make us believe Gilead is not in a good place economically, they should have made everything a little bleaker and more threadbare and with scarcer foodstuffs.

These are all part of decisions made by the showrunners as part of something called "artistic license." I find it helpful to imagine that the Sons of Jacob have a replicator in the basement of the Rachel and Leah center where they churn out pool weights and guardians 24/7, as well as perfect-looking oranges, limitless teal and red material for that Christmassy uniform look for the wimmins, and tons of fresh white paint for the hospital walls so that Gilead can achieve a certain creepy biblical aesthetic in a post-revolution society still at war with pretty much everyone. This helps things like logic and limited manpower and resources make a little more sense.

[Umbelina]

20 minutes ago, Earlwoode said:

Is it?  I thought his wife painted them seeing as he said she was an art teacher or something.

i don’t buy your explanations for the Gilead economy, sorry.  The place is too pristine and people seem very well fed. I’ve  seen places where there are food shortages and people spend half their time waiting in line not waltzing In to stores and checking out plumpness of the veggies.  If they wanted to make us believe Gilead is not in a good place economically, they should have made everything a little bleaker and more threadbare and with scarcer foodstuffs.

It's not "mine."

It's the shows.

All we've seen of Gilead is the Commander's home, and one tiny apartment for the econofamily.  Of course the rich have food, some anyway, not a great selection though if they are thrilled to get an orange.   No more bread for the rest of the year?

No cars on the road should be a clue.

The only areas we've seen in Gilead are Boston and a colony where people were starving and the "homes" bleak.

Fred was fretting over the economy all the time, trying to establish trade--with anyone.  The world boycott on trading with Gilead has been discussed on the show at least a half dozen times.

1 minute ago, LordOfLotion said:

These are all part of decisions made by the showrunners as part of something called "artistic license." I find it helpful to imagine that the Sons of Jacob have a replicator in the basement of the Rachel and Leah center where they churn out pool weights and guardians 24/7, as well as perfect-looking oranges, limitless teal and red material for that Christmassy uniform look for the wimmins, and tons of fresh white paint for the hospital walls so that Gilead can achieve a certain creepy biblical aesthetic in a post-revolution society still at war with pretty much everyone. This helps things like logic and limited manpower and resources make a little more sense.

Limitless?  June has maybe 6 items of clothing if you don't count the ugly boots and panties.  Serena, the top class, has about 1/3rd of a closet full various teal outfits.

I agree about the pool weights though, and the hospital doesn't look like any hospital I've ever seen, no endlessly ringing phones, no waiting rooms, no medical personnel looking haggard and running to emergencies, not even an intercom. 

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

Is it?  I thought his wife painted them seeing as he said she was an art teacher or something.

i don’t buy your explanations for the Gilead economy, sorry.  The place is too pristine and people seem very well fed. I’ve  seen places where there are food shortages and people spend half their time waiting in line not waltzing In to stores and checking out plumpness of the veggies.  If they wanted to make us believe Gilead is not in a good place economically, they should have made everything a little bleaker and more threadbare and with scarcer foodstuffs.

I have trouble believing that their economy is in bad shape, too, so I know where you're coming from. I took no cars on the road being that nobody else was allowed to drive other than the commanders and trade people, like the bread guy. 

I grew up poor, I still live surrounded by poverty in one of the poorest parts of the country. It's hard for me to look at any of this and see that they're doing poorly, stuff-wise. 

I think some of the art was taken from museums and some might be hers. I only know this because in one of those "behind the scenes" things, one of the people involved said that we're meant to understand that the art hanging in their homes was taken from museum during the big war, much like art was taken and hung in generals' houses in Nazi Germany. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by mamadrama

[NoSpam]

5 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

Is it?  I thought his wife painted them seeing as he said she was an art teacher or something.

i don’t buy your explanations for the Gilead economy, sorry.  The place is too pristine and people seem very well fed. I’ve  seen places where there are food shortages and people spend half their time waiting in line not waltzing In to stores and checking out plumpness of the veggies.  If they wanted to make us believe Gilead is not in a good place economically, they should have made everything a little bleaker and more threadbare and with scarcer foodstuffs.

And the big, airy, well-lit subway in season one, empty save for the escaping June, Moira, and some guards.

I remember rationing and it was grim, bleak, dirty... Even the upper crust were getting by with less panache.

[Earlwoode]

7 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

These are all part of decisions made by the showrunners as part of something called "artistic license." I find it helpful to imagine that the Sons of Jacob have a replicator in the basement of the Rachel and Leah center where they churn out pool weights and guardians 24/7, as well as perfect-looking oranges, limitless teal and red material for that Christmassy uniform look for the wimmins, and tons of fresh white paint for the hospital walls so that Gilead can achieve a certain creepy biblical aesthetic in a post-revolution society still at war with pretty much everyone. This helps things like logic and limited manpower and resources make a little more sense.

Haha, hilarious,especially the replicator.  Good catch about the Rachel and Leah Center.  Another anomaly in a supposedly very stretched economy.  A beautiful, brand new building - full of shiny glass and finished in record time too.  Did all the the workers get pulled in from the war?   Because you would presume every available man is fighting this hypothetical war at the front.  Also, the jumps between episodes where they din’t explain what happens in the previous one: who ”rescued” June and why was Nick arrested and how did he get back?  This series has some very good acting but the writers and storyline are absolute crap, IMO.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Earlwoode

[Earlwoode]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I have trouble believing that their economy is in bad shape, too, so I know where you're coming from. I took no cars on the road being that nobody else was allowed to drive other than the commanders and trade people, like the bread guy. 

Exactly.  I also,thought no cars was because Fred explained they did not like technology which polluting (wasn’t that supposed to be the reason fertility rates had dropped)?  I took the regimented clothing to be something like the Puritan outfits or the clothing the women in those religous 19th century communities in the US wear - all part of the repressive society. Oh and BTW, I see Serena’s clothing as completely green not teal or blue.  And I didn’t get anything about the aupposedly looted art since everyone has a standard very classical decoration in admittedly very gloomy houses, but this Comander has modern paintings.  Hence, I thought the wife had painted them, lol.  Nah, they’re doing a terrible job of conveying a staggering economy if that’s what they were aiming for.  That’s why I find this world so unbelievable - it seems like it’s existed for decades not a couple of years (based on Hannah’s age).

Edited July 7, 2018 by Earlwoode

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, NoSpam said:

And the big, airy, well-lit subway in season one, empty save for the escaping June, Moira, and some guards.

I remember rationing and it was grim, bleak, dirty... Even the upper crust were getting by with less panache.

I remember a rich old guy I used to know whose Depression era sob story was that they would spend their time fixing up their sailboat.

4 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

Exactly.  I also,thought no cars was because Fred explained they did not like technology which polluting (wasn’t that supposed to be the reason fertility rates had dropped)?  I took the regimented clothing to be something like the Puritan outfits or the clothing the women in those religous 19th century communities in the US wear - all part of the repressive society. Oh and BTW, I see Serena’s clothing as completely green not teal or blue.  And I didn’t get anything about the aupposedly looted art since everyone has a standard very classical decoration in admittedly very gloomy houses, but this Comander has modern paintings.  Hence, I thought the wife had painted them, lol.  Nah, they’re doing a terrible job of conveying a staggering economy if that’s what they were aiming for.  That’s why I find this world so unbelievable - it seems like it’s existed for decades not a couple of years (based on Hannah’s age).

I have trouble in the blue-green spectrum myself.

[GraceK]

The new commander and his house looked he stepped right out of Park Slope Brooklyn.

[Umbelina]

I do agree that they should show other parts of Gilead.  So far, we've only really seen the two extremes, and one brief glimpse of the apartment complex for some econowives near Boston.

As far as the top of the heap people having stuff?  It reminds me, but is less than, palaces in very poor countries.  There is always money for the rich and powerful, but how is everyone else doing?

A subway station (which already existed before Gilead) is clean and painted?  To me only means their practically slave labor takes care of those things.  Also, I don't see very many people around, which is probably because of budget and filming locations, but it's just as easy to think that is because so many soldiers are fighting in the wars. 

I googled photos of Boston traffic and the subway for comparison.  Compared to that activity?  Boston "economy" is dead.  June jokes about going down to "old Navy" which obviously is no longer an option.  Fred pours over papers grimly about the economy. 

It's only been a couple of years since the take over, many things would still be in place from the US economy.  With ZERO international trade, it would collapse, not to mention their anti-pollution measures, and as many have pointed out, oil/energy issues since they can't import oil, and they closed down all nuclear power plants that hadn't melted down or had accidents.

Would I like to see more of the collapse?  Yes.  Has the show mentioned several issues about the non-existent economy?  Yes. 

Interesting question though, just how long would it take before the very wealthy and those in power (Commanders) felt the pinch? 

[Ashforth]

11 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

Oh and BTW, I see Serena’s clothing as completely green not teal or blue.

That is funny because I see it as blue, not green or even teal. Proof that we literally don't all see things the same way!

It reminds me of the "blue dress/gold dress" controversy that raged a couple of years ago. There isn't a right or wrong, you see what you see.

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, Ashforth said:

That is funny because I see it as blue, not green or even teal. Proof that we literally don't all see things the same way!

It reminds me of the "blue dress/gold dress" controversy that raged a couple of years ago. There isn't a right or wrong, you see what you see.

It always looks teal to me, except under proper lighting in the "inside the episodes" stuff, where it actually does look bluish teal.

[Jynnan tonnix]

On 6/29/2018 at 5:37 AM, dleighg said:

My daughter lives in Cambridge. I said word-for-word the same thing to my husband.

All this talk about car seats cracks me up. My kids were born in the 90s and carseats were certainly unarguable at that time, but both grandmothers didn't quite get the "no-arguments" thing since both of them brought their babies (me and my husband) home in a lap, and babies were typically transported in a box. Really! I just looked it up and car seats were first required in 1985. Sounds about right.

 

My oldest was born in 1985, and the car seat thing was still quite new - the actual seats were essentially just baby carriers - a molded plastic shell with padding, a three-point harness, and buckled into the back seatbelts. Forward facing,if I recall correctly. When the kids got to be toddlers they switched to little booster seats and used the regular seatbelts. When my youngest was born (1991), we were stationed in Scotland where car seats had really not  become common yet. When we were ready to leave the hospital with him, all we had was a small baby carrier, and they were rather surprised that we were trying to find something a bit more substantial that didn't just kind of get carried in your lap during the car ride...

My parents always told of my just being put in the back seat in a sort of wicker basket, and how it once slid to the floor when my dad had to hit the brakes. They were so worried I might have been hurt, but apparently I didn't even wake up. Things have definitely come a long, long way! My three month old granddaughter's car seat is rocket science in comparison!

Edited July 9, 2018 by Jynnan tonnix

[hiccup]

Ok, I need someone to answer this question for me....

Which episode did Fred find out that Nick is the father of the baby? In this ep, Serena talked about it to him and it was so matter of fact, that he obviously knew. And then an episode or 2 ago, June mentioned to Fred that he wasn't ever going to be a father and he wasn't shocked. So, obviously he knew then too, but I don't remember when he found out.  

[Umbelina]

20 minutes ago, hiccup said:

Ok, I need someone to answer this question for me....

Which episode did Fred find out that Nick is the father of the baby? In this ep, Serena talked about it to him and it was so matter of fact, that he obviously knew. And then an episode or 2 ago, June mentioned to Fred that he wasn't ever going to be a father and he wasn't shocked. So, obviously he knew then too, but I don't remember when he found out.  

The only time we were sure he knew Nick was the father was this episode.  He found out he wasn't the father from Serena earlier.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Umbelina

[hiccup]

Thanks @Umbelina! 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/28/2018 at 7:05 PM, charmed1 said:

 Also, where was she driving that sports car in snow? Directly into a tree? 

Yea, all i could think of for most of this episode was how a V8, rear wheel drive Camaro would be shit for driving on snowy roads. Especially since June hasn't driven any car for years. She would have been lucky to get out of the driveway.

 

On 7/4/2018 at 8:48 PM, Earlwoode said:

Well, if there is a war on than this neat little world with plenty of food and nice uniform clothing for everyone is even less believable.  So Gilead is being boycotted internationally and they still manage all of that, have tons of guys in the streets with guns (when you would thing they would be at the front fighting).  They have also lost half their workforce (women) but have a nice little working economy going.  Hmm, it really stretches credulity to think this place would work at all.  What is also not made clear is if the so called econowives (of which we saw one) get to work or just stay at home like all the others (except for the Marthas who are basically live in maids working in someone else's home).  I presume the Marthas are slaves and don't get paid?

I do wonder, with all the Guardians in the streets, and men on the front fighting how do they manage to keep the border secure? The Canada/US border is massive, lots of places to escape.

[Umbelina]

I drove a rear wheel drive Mustang in the snow for years, and a friends had other muscle cars and did the same.  It can be done, especially if the car had snow tires, which it may not have.  That soft crunchy snow is easy, it's the ice you need to worry about.

[Kel Varnsen]

19 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I drove a rear wheel drive Mustang in the snow for years, and a friends had other muscle cars and did the same.  It can be done, especially if the car had snow tires, which it may not have.  That soft crunchy snow is easy, it's the ice you need to worry about.

Of course it totally can be done. But as I said June hasn't driven any car in like 4 years. To go from nothing to driving that car in the snow would be difficult for anyone. And I would doubt that a classic car stored under a sheet in a summer house has winter tires. And I doubt Gilead does a great job of keeping roads clear in the winter.

So yea not impossible, just extremely difficult to keep the car from spinning out or getting stuck. Further to that I think getting the car out and then getting stuck would be more poetic  (literally spinning her wheels) than June being incapable of opening the garage door.

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Of course it totally can be done. But as I said June hasn't driven any car in like 4 years. To go from nothing to driving that car in the snow would be difficult for anyone. And I would doubt that a classic car stored under a sheet in a summer house has winter tires. And I doubt Gilead does a great job of keeping roads clear in the winter.

So yea not impossible, just extremely difficult to keep the car from spinning out or getting stuck. Further to that I think getting the car out and then getting stuck would be more poetic  (literally spinning her wheels) than June being incapable of opening the garage door.

Yes, as I said, I did it for years.  I also had a piece of crap ancient sedan with bald tires that I had to drive up hills to get to University in.  The first time I drove a front wheel drive in snow was scary, I knew how rear wheels worked best, but not front, it was a learning process.  I actually still prefer rear to front wheel drive in snow.

Not snow clearing would actually probably help, provided the snow on the roads isn't deep enough to bury the car.  Driving on actual snow isn't hard, as I said, it's the ice that nails you.  Ice that can more easily form on plowed or frequently used roads.  That's the other thing, almost no traffic there, like, at all.  That would make the snow driving easier.

[Earlwoode]

On 7/12/2018 at 3:28 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I do wonder, with all the Guardians in the streets, and men on the front fighting how do they manage to keep the border secure? The Canada/US border is massive, lots of places to escape.

All part of why this world is just not believable.  No one understands what the “colonies” are; where they are and why are they called “colonies” in the first place?  Did Americans colonize their own country?  A lot of this world makes no sense.

[DesertCyclist]

On 6/26/2018 at 11:45 PM, Umbelina said:

WHY isn't she interviewing the escapees in Canada then?

"And YOU get asylum, and YOU get asylum -- everyone gets asylum!"

[PeaceLily2]

On 6/27/2018 at 2:40 AM, mamadrama said:

I've given birth 3 times. My second went into a complete placental abruption with a full-on hemorrhage (that looked very much like the bloody delivery scene of June) that required immediate delivery (several weeks early) and 3 blood transfusions. My son died 8 weeks later of a heart attack. 

I'm only sharing that because, with those things said, I felt no kind of feels while watching this episode. Ordinarily baby things make me all gushy and sentimental. I am so worn out from all the dark crap and bad shit that's happening in this show, however, that I'm kind of over a lot of this. Had this happened in season 1, I'd have been tearing up and hugging my kids. This time around, while she was lying there holding Holly immediately after birth, I wound up pausing it to see how much time was left and then called out for my husband to bring me a cupcake. 

This is not good for the viewer in me. 

I am so sorry.  

[nachomama]

On 7/15/2018 at 10:04 PM, DesertCyclist said:

"And YOU get asylum, and YOU get asylum -- everyone gets asylum!"

Speaking of which, was that Oprah doing the radio voice that June hears in the car?

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

So I'm sitting here watching Red Riding Hood run through the woods and I'm thinking, right, she's gonna get attacked by a wolf or something now. And then sure enough she turns around and there's a wolf. Seriously?

Pet peeve: "for Daddy and I" is like nails on a chalkboard to me. June was an editor. No way would she say that.

LOL at that muscle car, and yay, Oprah.

Serena was not wearing heels for once.

Holy crap, that was an epic Waterford fight. And Serena knows they raped June. I never thought she'd admit that. (Although she said "you" raped her to Fred, Serena knows deep down that she's complicit.)

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, echo.Echo.ECHO said:

Pet peeve: "for Daddy and I" is like nails on a chalkboard to me. June was an editor. No way would she say that.

Amen.

[Violetgoblin6]

Well...that was intense. 

 

I've never had kids, but I almost could feel June's pain. How did Elisabeth not win the 2018 Emmy?? I watched The Crown in its entirety and I love Claire Foy and I think she was amazing. But man, Elisabeth was incredible in this episode. And again the resemblance to my mom is startling. At certain angles it's truly like seeing my mom when she was younger (my mom is 70), uncanny. Even the teeth! And Nick looks like my hub, but I digress. As for the primal birth scene, ill let you ladies take it from here as I read. Always enjoy your commentary.

 

The sheer beauty of this episode took my breath away. The cold, icy imagery conveying emotional desolation and fear. The scenes of white snow, muted brick, gothic mansion, and black wolf. The scene when SJ is standing in the bedroom and catches herself in the mirror...frozen, blonde, severe. Frozen world outside, abandoned house, a flash of blood red handmaid's garb, gorgeous shots. Almost like some present day fairytale. This is without a doubt the most beautifully put together show I've ever watched. It's even better (!!!) than I imagined in my mind when I devoured the novel a month ago.